Greatest Sharks: Goalie Controversy
Evgeni Nabokov was voted as the greatest goaltender in Sharks history.
"Snore. zzzZZZzzzzz"
Really though, there was no other viable option. Nabokov is the definition of "Sharks Goalie". Look it up in a dictionary, or at least on Wikipedia. It was a no brainer. Who came in second, you ask? Oh, do I have a story for you.
Although Artus Irbe was far and away the winner of the back up netminder's spot (40 votes for Irbe to 4 for both Toskala and Vernon) the pot-stirring and subsequent uproar in the first goaltender vote necessitated a second round. You forced my hand.
This exercise in futility has gone on to long. Let's end this!
I'll throw down some more analysis when the backup has been chosen. If you need a refresher on the candidates, make the jump for FTF's player profiles.
Hrumph.
Note: To be considered a member of the "Greatest Sharks", you must have played parts of a minimum of three seasons with the team. A player must receive at least ten votes or 25% of the overall vote to be included on the "Greatest Sharks" team.
Artus Irbe: Although drafted 196th overall by the Minnesota North Stars in 1989, the Latvian Irbe played his first NHL game as a member of the San Jose Sharks in 1991. With the addition of Irbe, the Sharks were blessed with a reliable goaltender for the first time in their short history. Nicknamed "The Wall", Irbe led the Sharks to their first Stanley Cup Playoff appearance in 1993-1994. During the season, Irbe played a then NHL record 4412 minutes for the Sharks, going 30-28-16 while posting a 2.84 GAA and a .899 save percentage. Although he ended his San Jose career on a sour note (he had a disastrous final season with San Jose after he was mauled in the off-season by his pet dog) Irbe would win 57 games while in teal, including the first shutout in Sharks history. He remains one of the most loved players to ever skate for the Sharks.
Vesa Toskala: With the Sharks and Nabokov's inability to agree on contract terms to start the 2002-2003 season, Toskala was thrown into the fire. Serving as a backup to Kiprusoff, Toskala played well, going 4-3-1 while posting a 2.35 GAA and a .927 save percentage. Once Nabokov returned, Toskala was sent back to the minors while Kiprusoff remained the backup. However, it was Toskala who ultimately won the job of backup goaltender, impressing the Sharks' coaches and front office enough to force a trade of Kiprusoff. Although Toskala competed with Nabokov for most of his time with the Sharks, he still was able to put up admirable numbers without continuity of play and rampant trade speculation. After splitting starting duties with Nabokov for most of the 2006-2007 season, Nabokov was given the nod for the remainder of the season and the playoffs. As expected, Toskala was traded in the 2007 off-season, and is now the starting goaltender for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Mike Vernon: After already establishing himself as an elite NHL netminder with the Calgary Flames and Detroit Red Wings, Vernon joined the Sharks in 1997. With 14 NHL seasons, two Stanley Cup Championships, five NHL All Star appearances, and Conn Smyth and William M. Jennings trophies under his belt, Vernon was the most decorated goalie to ever wear teal. Although he played well while in San Jose (putting up a regular season GAA of 2.39), Vernon was never able to help the Sharks past the first round of the playoffs. In the 1999-2000 NHL season, Vernon was traded to the Florida Panthers. Vernon would finish his career in Calgary, where his number (30) hangs from the rafters.
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26 votes and I'm the first comment
Unlurk everyone!
This time, it’s all Irbe for me.
by freesia39 on Apr 6, 2009 8:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Beep-beep, beooooooo.
Lurk Mode. Is. Disabled. Awaiting further instructions.
Enters into Battle Mode.
Fear The Fin: Where The Second Round Is Overrated
by Mr. Plank on Apr 6, 2009 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
See?!?
Robot fo sho.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remembering back to the times of Toskala made me think how good he was, I thought we would end up with him in the end but we all know how things went,
Win Percentage- Irbe: 38.38%, Toskala: 51.28%
Save Percentage- Irbe: .899, Toskala: .905
GAA- Irbe: 2.83, Toskala: 2.67
Games In a SJ Uniform- Irbe: 183, Toskala: 115
GAA while in SJ- Irbe: 4.47, 4.11, 2.84, 3.26, 4.59 Toskala: 2.35, 2.06, 2.56, 2.35
Sv % while in SJ Uniform- Irbe: .868, .886, .899, .895, .860 Toskala: .927, .930, .901, .908
Shutout in SJ Uniform- Both are tied with 8
If you can read you can see that Toskala’s stats are in a whole different dimension than Irbe. Just for starters Irbe was not a lifelong Shark like others that we have inducted into this team, such as marleau giving them that extra edge against all the competition, not including the skill, but still considering it at the same time. To some it is not always pure skill that determines the team, which is craziness to me, but I totally understand that this is a SHARKS greatest team. Some might disagree, but I believe the only reason Irbe is even on this list is because of one season, the 1993-1994 campaign. Is it right to judge one self on my silly season? Glad you asked because I think that in some cases, yes it is applicable; however, in this case it is not right to decide or chose our backup goaltender purely on one season. Irbe has literally nothing to backup this one season in my mind, look at his stats for God’s sake, in an SJ uniform he did only have one good season and the rest where literally terrible 4.47, 4.11, 2.84, 3.26, 4.59. Posting a GAA average of over 4 in three of five season would get you fired wherever you played on any team, I understand that he didn’t play on the greatest of teams but giving up over 4 GAA is absolutely terrible, and would pain me to see someone like that in the back of our net if anything bad was to happen to nabby. Meanwhile, Toskala made the most of a tense and dicey goaltender situation to play his best under pressure situations every night knowing that the guy I’m splitting with could take my ass at any time and I could be done. Under this tremendous amount of pressure he went on to post a GAA of 2.35, 2.06, 2.56, 2.35, while in a San Jose Shark Uniform. So with that said Toskala posted a better GAA every year he played with the Sharks than Irbe’s epic season. If you had your mind set on that spectacular season of Irbe, this should give you a little perspective on how great it really was. Furthermore, Toskala also posted a better Save Percentage every year he played with the Sharks (.927, .930, .901, .908), than the epic year that Irbe had (.889). Needless to say I voted Toskala and you should to.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Apr 6, 2009 9:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great writeup..
However…
Different eras, different teams. Irbe took made the worst team in the leauge a playoff contender, and led them past Detroit in one of the biggest upsets in playoff (any sport) history.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This...
is why I voted Irbe.
Call it nostalgia, but as I said during the original vote, if it wasn’t for Nabby being THE Sharks goalie, Irbe wouldda gotten my vote. He’s among my earliest Sharks memories, and, well, he beat Detroit. Toskala had some good years in teal, but he was never more than a backup to Nabby for me (I know, I know…he was THE guy for one year’s playoffs…then he got traded, but still, just sayin). It’s not always all about numbers. By the numbers, Boucher is a better goalie this season than Nabby. But I don’t want Nabby on the bench in the playoffs. Nabby is our #1 because he’s been our best #1 for quite a while now. Irbe was our main and best #1 for an extended period of time before that, and helped bring us out of the cellar. Even if it was just one great season, it was the one great season that put San Jose on the hockey map.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Apr 6, 2009 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fantastic Point
About Boucher and Nabby in there.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nabby also doesn't have a GAA of 4.47, 4.11, 3.26, 4.59.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Apr 6, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Different NHL. Worse team.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can’t just throw out numbers like that without adjusting for context and era.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols in the outfield.
by marcello on Apr 6, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point is that toskala was in the upper pack of his era, irbe was not even close
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Apr 6, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That point wasn’t made with those numbers. Context.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols in the outfield.
by marcello on Apr 6, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly my sentiments,
I remember watching Irbe even when I didn’t know what hockey was. I loved Tosk, but he was always a backup, even when he platooned.
by Chicago Shark on Apr 6, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points mattman, and I would do this if I had time (feel free to go ahead with it if you’d like), but there is a way to put both goaltenders on an “even” playing field:
1) Find the average GAA and SV% of the top 30 netminders in the NHL during those respective years.
2) Find the Sharks average GAA and SV% with those goaltenders out of the lineup during those respective years.
3) Compare their numbers to that.
It was a different NHL and a different team. In my book I voted Irbe because he put the franchise on the map.
Different strokes for different strokes, or something like that.
Fear The Fin: Where The Second Round Is Overrated
by Mr. Plank on Apr 6, 2009 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Toskala was consistently in the top ten, Irbe was never in the top ten,
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Apr 6, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since I never knew Irbe or Vernon
I voted for Toskala.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com
by CTGray on Apr 6, 2009 9:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Same for me. The farthest back my goalie memory goes is a hazy recollection of finding the name “Shields” appropriate for a netminder.
by senor_k on Apr 6, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irbe
He was THE goalie when the team finally crashed the playoff party and pantsed Detroit in the first round. Tosk, as good as he was, was always the second banana to Nabby during his time here.
I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"
by Nael M. on Apr 6, 2009 10:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Incredibly tough to use stats to grade goalies...
Probably the best way to rate goalies is to compare a teams performance when they are in to when their backups are in, especially when you can get past sample size problems. Toskola has probably been a lil better than his backups, while I would be dollars to donuts that Irbe stood head and shoulders above Jimmy Waite or Wade Flaherty (whom I also have a soft spot for). That in and of itself is not enough (Toskola had Nabby as his backup, for example), but that should help put Irbe’s numbers in context.
by ruben398 on Apr 6, 2009 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Irbe vs Toskala
Didn’t Irbe finish behind Toskala in the previous round of voting? Why the change? or is my recall busted again?
I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that.
by theneverman on Apr 6, 2009 1:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Your recall was busted (and probably clouded by all the Vesa supporters), Archie was second with 40-something votes. Vesa and Mike Vernon tied with 4 votes each.
I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"
by Nael M. on Apr 6, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew I broke something, between roller derby and hockey over the weekend, Jameson found its way into my gullet and well….
I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that.
by theneverman on Apr 6, 2009 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Irbe...
and it wasn’t close. We made the poll to appease some of our readers.
In the end though, it looks this vote wasn’t necessary.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're absolute correct
But thanks for doing it anyway
Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad
by Dave Valentine on Apr 6, 2009 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's because I love you guys.
WAAAY too much.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful.
You don’t want us taking advantage of you.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
by Lurker Shark on Apr 6, 2009 6:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, maybe….Nah…I won’t go there
Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad
by Dave Valentine on Apr 6, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean
we don’t already?
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com
by CTGray on Apr 6, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ba dump, pisshh.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tosk making a late push!
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Irby’s gonna win. And that’s okay. From a purely statistical standpoint (my opinion) Tosk wins the race. But, hey, I also understand the sentimental value of Archie. It’s not completely lost on me, as I remember his exploits quite well. And if this was a purely statistical team it wouldn’t be near as much fun to vote. Hell, we wouldn’t even need to vote. You could just compile the stats, rank ’em, and tell us who won.
Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad
by Dave Valentine on Apr 6, 2009 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point. That’s kind of why I was so skimpy on stats in the player analysis. I wanted you guys to make the decision, not me.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just Because
Is not a valid argument. Please expand :P
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, just because he’s the first goalie I remember watching. It would just be silly for me to take this vote seriously. ;)
by chilibean_3 on Apr 6, 2009 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was joking with you.
Vernon is as solid a choice as Toskala or Irbe. I just think that he belongs on the “Greatest Flames” squad.
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha
Fear The Fin: Where The Second Round Is Overrated
by Mr. Plank on Apr 7, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH!
I see your point now! My eyes have been opened!
Fear the Fin: Approved by ESPN and Logan Couture
by That'll Cheech You on Apr 6, 2009 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I gotta go with Irbe here.
He was the focus of the wall I had plastered with Sharks stuff when I was 10. As good as Vesa was for us, Archie helped put this team on the map and was one of my childhood heroes. Nostalgia FTW.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
by Lurker Shark on Apr 6, 2009 6:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
toskala
other than nabby and greiss, he’s the only sharks goalie that i’ve seen. and yea i could look at the stats, but its not the same.
"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra
by serrapadre716 on Apr 6, 2009 8:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
MIKE VERNON
he was so exciting to watch as a kid
by Brian5517209 on Apr 6, 2009 10:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Hrudey
’cause he has and still has great hair.
Actually, I voted for Mike Vernon. He helped return the Sharks to respectability by leading them to the playoffs, the year after Ed Belfour left the first hour of free agency for Dallas.
by Will Bulldozer on Apr 7, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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