UFA of the Day: Ryan Vesce
by Matthew_Taylor on May 25, 2009 12:55 PM PDT
in Armchair GM
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So far, the players chosen for "UFA of the Day" have been pretty well known Sharks. As it stands, most FTF readers have agreed to keep Semenov and Roenick, while Grier was shooed off.
However, it will be interesting to see how this vote turns out, as I would imagine there are no strong emotions associated with Ryan Vesce.
If you could tell me who Ryan Vesce was before the beginning of the year, I'd give you five bucks. Well, no, I probably wouldn't. But I'd give you a hug. Just tell me where to mail it.
The 26 year old Vesce returned to the AHL in 2008 after a year in Finland, and proceeded to have his best statistical year as a pro. The New York native and four year NCAA player with Cornell University scored 71 points (24 goals) in 67 regular season AHL games, and 10 points in 12 AHL playoff games. In 10 games with the big club, Vesce didn't score any points, but impressed McLellan and his assistant coaches with his endurance and lightning quick skating stride.
During the AHL season, Vesce logged big minutes on both the PK and PP and served as captain for much of the season. He plays much bigger than his 5'8" 170 pound frame would suggest, and he's skilled in the face off circle.
We've been talking at length about the cap issues next season, and Vesce is exactly the type of player that we should be looking for. He's cheap (the $475,000 he made last year was the smallest salary on the team), young, and appears to be coming into his prime. However, there are a few things that diminish Vesce's value on the Sharks, and these factors may decide his fate with the organization.
First, Vesce is yet another pivot on a team ripe with center men. Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Goc, Mitchell, Roenick, Plihal, and Couture could all be competing for one of four center spots on the team. Although there is room for a little finagling, (moving one or two of them to the wing) not every center makes that transition as well as Marleau did. It's safe to say that we're pretty safe at center for the foreseeable future.
Second, although Vesce does play big, he's still small in stature. The Sharks were pushed around during the playoffs, and it's not known if Vesce will be able to push back on a consistent basis.
Third, Vesce's doppleganger just happens to be on the same team he's trying to make. Although Mitchell missed the regular season, he was able to show the organization that he's still the same player that everyone was so impressed with in 2007-2008. Mitchell is practically Vesce in a slightly larger package; he's a small, quick skater who plays well on the kill and brings fire to your lower lines. There's definitely room for the two of them, but there isn't necessarily a need for both.
All in all, I'm a Vesce supporter. At 26, he's not really a prospect, but he's shown improvement in each of his professional seasons. He brings leadership, grit, and skill to your team... if he was just a little bigger, he'd be an NHL veteran by now.
He might not make the team next year, but he can reprise his role as captain in Worcester until injuries or need at the NHL level lead to a call up. Having a player like Vesce in your coffers is the definition of "depth".
TCY's Final Offer: Two years at $650,000. Vesce had a good season last year and could probably command a bit more elsewhere, but the opportunity to play with the Sharks and former high school and college teammate Douglas Murray is too awesome to pass up.
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I would resign Vesce
For depth. I know we have depth at center, but lets look at those guys you mentioned:
Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Goc, Mitchell, Roenick, Plihal, and Couture
Goc – Spent a 20+ games on IR
Mitchell – Spent the season on IR
Roenick – Spent half the season on IR
Plihal – Not a true Center
Couture – I know you are particularly hot for this particular prospect, but he is still largely untested at the NHL level.
Goc seems to have had a consistent problem with back spasms. Mitchell should come back healthy, lord knows he had all the time in the world! Dang those set backs.
Roenick. Styles! I hope he resigns, same goes for Plihal.
So how stacked are we at center? Injury and signing concerns aside, pretty stacked, but having that insurance would be awesome. I say signing Vesce would be a good move for insuring some stability at center.
As for his size, Ray Whitney and Theo Fleury are proof that small guys can make it in the NHL. So long as they avoid crack and midget hookers.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
Plihal
I’ve heard some contesting views on Plihal’s true position. I’ve always been told he was a center, but it seems he’s capable of playing both center and left wing. He played both positions well (serviceably) in the NHL this year.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by Matthew_Taylor on May 25, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn dude... send me an email!
I heard it in a Worcester game feed, I think.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by Matthew_Taylor on May 27, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
couture untested at the NHL level
weeelllllllll, there is one way we could test him. he’s going to have to at some point.
"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra
by serrapadre716 on May 26, 2009 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope he can hang...
But, at this point we just dont know. See how his training camp goes and then decide from there.
How did he do during the playoffs for the WorSharks?
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
played good,
tough to just step right into a playoff run with a team you haven’t played with all season but he managed and did great.
I don't like you Detroit.
Yes to Vesce
He’s cheap, he’s skilled, and he’s clutch. I think he had something like 4 OT goals this year to lead the AHL. He was considered to be the team’s MVP pretty much the entire year, and he’s the captain. He had a 1.06 PPG pace in 67 games, with 5 PPG and 3 SHG. The guy is good. Small, but good, and not a bad guy to have in your back pocket. I mean, if he produced the same in the NHL, he’d be commanding $5M+. Of course, the NHL and AHL are two totally different creatures, but still. 1.06 PPG. That’s awesome.
Plus he wasn’t too bad when he was called up to the NHL a few times this season. Small, yes, and had some problems with getting pushed around, but he made up for it with speed and the willingness to hit everything that moved. And its kind of funny to see him stand next to Joe or Murray.
And then as for the whole “stacked at center” thing, I seem to remember a few times this year where we just completely ran out of centers, and had to move Marleau down to the third line and had a fourth line comprised of three wingers. Marleau, Mitchell, Roenick, and Plihal have all shown aptitude at wing (and I’d argue that Marleau should play LW next year as well), so its not like we have a bunch of guys who can only play center.
Oh, and the AHL roster thing lists him as RW, so that center point could be moot anyways.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
And its kind of funny to see him stand next to Joe or Murray.
It was funny to see him next to Pavelski. He made Pavelski look tall!
Hey, i like that picture.
I also like the idea of keeping Vesce around for depth. Even if he doesn’t see much time with the big club, I’m sure the Worcester folks would be happy to have him back.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on May 25, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
vesce is smaller
than pavleski?
"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra
by serrapadre716 on May 26, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
5’8", but that’s just his listed size. 5’7", maybe.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
and here I was, all excited that I was taller than a hockey player…/me sighs
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
No such luck there.
Although you’re probably taller than the mites they let play during intermissions on Saturday games at the Tank.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on May 26, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions
As far as the center thing goes...
I’m just saying that he probably is less likely to make the team to start the season because of the position he plays.
If you take 4 to start the year, is Vesce one of them? He could probably play as a wing, but who knows.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by Matthew_Taylor on May 25, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Small, but good, and not a bad guy to have in your back pocket.
Heh, his size makes that even more convenient.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
i love ryan vesce here is the problem though,
he is more of the type of player you put on a 1/2 line, but unfortunately doesn’t have the tools. So he is either going 3/4 but doesn’t really fight there either these spots are usually reserved for more of a grinder type role. I voted yes because i love this guy and think he shows a lot of promise for maybe a third line, but not in this organization we simple have too many other players right now. The only chance in hell i see him is on the third line with mcginn couture vesce, but that is just my imagingation kicking in (probably not as crazy as i think it is).
I don't like you Detroit.
he is more of the type of player you put on a 1/2 line, but unfortunately doesn’t have the tools. So he is either going 3/4 but doesn’t really fight there either these spots are usually reserved for more of a grinder type role.
A very good point, and one that is definitely worth making. Coupled with the fact that Mitchell is a better fit in that specific role (something TCY touched on), and he may be the case (unfortunately) as a solid player but the wrong fit for the current team.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
The only chance in hell i see him is on the third line with mcginn couture vesce, but that is just my imagingation kicking in (probably not as crazy as i think it is).
Not a bad third line, honestly. I could dig that.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
we'll see what happens,
tcy thinks it’s a good possibility couture will start with wocester but i still am betting on him having a great training camp and making the team, but we’ll see what happens i probably wrong because he needs more pro development but we’ll see.
I don't like you Detroit.
Yes as depth...
…no if some other teams wants to pay him better money. If he can be had for TCY’s proposed price, sure thing. He’s a gamer who you know will come out to play every game. But I’m unsure as to how he would stand up to a full NHL schedule. The size thing is really something to think about, and TCY made a good point that he’s really Mitchell-lite (and that’s saying something). He’d be good to have, and could help lead Worcester into the AHL playoffs again next season, but I wouldn’t pay him as even a low level NHL starter…not yet.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
I think Vesce’s a classic case of overvaluing our own players- if he’s a UFA next season from another team (for example, Minnesota) do we go after him to fill in a roster spot? I don’t think so. Signing him is purely an organizational depth move, and I’m fine with that.
Like TCY said, Mitchell fulfills the same role as Vesce, while also (and this is the kicker for a lower line player) eating a whole lot more minutes on the PK. I’m not able to find the statistics for Woo-stah’s PK time (if anyone has any knowledge of this, please provide a link), but at the NHL level he had a whopping 0:09 shorthanded in the ten games he was up with the big club. Granted there’s a multitude of reasons why this was the case (a fairly well-established group of penalty killers on one of the best units league-wide, the fact that most of the Worcester kids didn’t get any time on the unit etc.), but if he is unable to fulfill that role over an 82 game season it makes me wary to plug him into a lower line role (a role he’s destined to fit into).
At the end of the day, it comes down to monetary compensation. If he takes TCY’s proposed price, I’m fine with it. You pay for that depth. Anything over $650 K and you let him walk.
On a side note, his skating stride has always been a favorite of mine. Quick, short bursts, not a lot of time with his skates off the ice or forward body lean- probably a good thing because he needs the height.
I hope we can fit him in.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
are you trying to
say that we need to develop some low-liners into pk’ers, if so i agree with marleau being hurt at the end of the year i think we need to reduce his and pavs and michaleks pk time this year.
I don't like you Detroit.
I’ve got something in the works for late July before free agency kicks in (a sort of wish-list type piece), and that’s one of the big ones on it.
If we’re assuming Grier is leaving (a fairly logical assumption), Patrick Marleau, Joe Pavelski, Milan Michalek, and Travis Moen are the four leaders in PK minutes in terms of forwards. Three of those four play on the top two lines, as well as getting ample amounts of power play time.
I’m not going to get into too much here, but basically what I would like to see Wilson do is go out and get a defensively minded winger who’s going to eat up shorthanded minutes to limit the big three’s time in those situations (like you mentioned). Mitchell’s return is going to help of course, but he’s just plugging Grier’s hole at best- if no new players are being brought into the system, at this point it looks as if Marleau/Pavelski/Michalek will be getting roughly the same share of minutes they were this season.
In short, the question I ask myself when I look at Ryan Vesce is this- will he be able to share some of the PK load, therefore allowing Marleau/Pavelski/Michalek to be more effective at even strength and on the power play (due to the fact they won’t be getting as many shifts shorthanded, which are much more taxing minutes to play). From all that I’ve seen, I don’t think he helps in that regard, which makes him more “expendable” in my eyes.
This isn’t to say he won’t provide value in both the short and long term for the club- I voted “Yes” in the poll. It’s just to say that if he demands more money than TCY proposed, a decent possibility considering his numbers this year in the AHL, he might not be a slam-dunk pick up for this specific San Jose squad. Like you said, he’s a 1/2 line guy that will be put into a 3/4 role for the next few years with the Sharks. In order to justify paying him more than $650 K he would have to provide a little more than just scoring potential, and having Mitchell and him both as part of your “grittier” lines concerns me- I just don’t think that players of that size (throwing Goc into the mix as well because he plays smaller than his body) is an intelligent route to take. That’s 1/2 of your 3-4 lines that won’t put fear into any defenseman playing the puck along the boards when the Sharks are forechecking. And that’s a huge problem.
To reiterate, I hope we can keep him solely for the purpose of providing organizational depth. However, I just don’t see him cracking the roster next season as a bona-fide starter, and therefore am wary of paying him much more than TCY’s proposed price.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
At the proposed price
I vote yes on short fat Russian. (even though he’s neither fat nor russian)
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
well the commander in chief is back thats a good thing
i guess we now have a voice of reason
I don't like you Detroit.
skates like Cicarelli
. . at least that what’s I thought the couple of times I saw him. Why are little guys able to run on the ice? Played feisty like Dino too, which can only help the Sharks.
I think his situation is attractive. Sharks don’t have to spend time growing and developing him – just give him his big chance at the NHL level. At his age he’s probably thinking now or never – establish with Sharks or draw someone else’s interest and get a trade if it’s not meant to be with Sharks. If he’s not able to slow down Getzlaf or Franzen he might not help the Sharks, but could help bring someone who can.
Let’s offer the cheap price and see what happens.
by DetroiterInNorCal on May 26, 2009 8:28 AM PDT reply actions
oops UFA
duh! Let the flames burn hot.
Anyway, I don’t see him helping the Sharks much in the playoffs. If they lose Mitchell then fine, otherwise wish him well.
by DetroiterInNorCal on May 26, 2009 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes on Vesce
He’s a solid player, but I don’t see him ever really being a full-time NHLer. However, it’s important to have these kinds of players for our AHL team to keep them competitive, and help our prospects learn to win and play strong at the professional level. He gives us some extra scoring depth if, god forbid, we have to suffer through a similar number of injuries next year. He has a good foundation with our organization and will provide more for the Sharks then another team, imo.
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
I knew he was a good Sharks prospect at the before the season.....
I’d even seen him play in a few games. He’s pretty good, I’d keep him at TCY’s offer.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
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