UFA of the Day: Mike Grier
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 4:00 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
67 comments
Leader.
Skilled defensive player.
Solid penalty killer.
Deceptively quick and powerful skater.
Gritty, no holds barred style of play.
These are all qualities that could have been used to describe Mike Grier when he first joined the Sharks during the 2006-2007 season. At the time, Grier was billed as a third line player with the skills of a second liner; he was someone who could give you a solid defensive showing and still notch a few points from time to time. I liked the move when it was made, and I think Grier had a good first two seasons in teal.
This year, however, it's a different story. Although Grier is still a leader on this team, the other aspects of his game fell off considerably during the 2008-2009 NHL campaign. We touched on these issues during the season, and the big picture doesn't look much better now that the year is over.
As stated in that article, Grier blocked 1.4 shots per 60 minutes while healthy; that number is down .5 shots blocked per 60 minutes year over year. I'm aware that blocked shots aren't the whole part of the defensive package, but it's important to note that the league average sits around 2.56 blocked shots per 60 minutes of ice time (in a minimum of 30 games played), and the Sharks' average stands at 2.4.
If the blocked shots were the only problem, I'd have little issue with Grier's play this year. However, it seems as if the defensive prowess that has been a Grier staple for years has begun to fade away. Although his five on five numbers are still solid (only 1.61 goals are scored against the Sharks when Grier is on the ice opposed to 2.12 when he's off), the penalty kill numbers leave much to be desired. Per 60 minutes, Grier averaged 2.44 minutes of penalty kill time, third behind only Vlasic and Marleau. However, out of all the regular penalty killers, Grier was behind only Murray in Power Play Goals Against per 60 minutes. The 6.74 PPG/60 is troubling, especially from a player who is billed as a PK specialist. After Grier, the number of PPGA/60 drops off considerably; Milan Michalek ranks next in line at a respectable 5.97.
Grier has never been an offensive dynamo, but never before has he been such a drain on team offense. By using the Corsi Number (Corsi number is the number of shots directed towards the net while the player is on the ice. The number can be broken down into whose net the shots are directed towards (their own net (-) and their opponent's net (+)) similar to the plus minus statistic. The hope of course is that the Corsi plus minus would correlate well with the regular plus minus, but because the numbers will be 16x larger than plus minus numbers they'll be about 4x more accurate than the plus minus numbers. Like the +/- metric, Corsi only takes 5-on-5 numbers into account), it's easy to see that the team's offense doesn't run through Mike Grier. Of all skaters, Grier's Corsi Number is the third lowest (behind only Shelley and McGinn [Moen's is also lower, but accounts for his time with the Ducks]). The 2.2 Corsi is not only telling of his offensive struggles, but his defensive ones as well. When Grier is on the ice, the opposition puts up an average of 24.2 shots per sixty minutes while at even strength. Although this is seventh highest on the team, the players in front of Grier are McGinn, Marleau, Setoguchi, Vlasic, and Thornton (players, with the exception of McGinn, who face the opposition's top line).
You don't need all the fancy behindthenet.ca stats to see that Grier is on the decline. He did score 23 points in 62 games this year, one more than he scored in 78 games the year prior. He was on pace for a 30 point season, which is pretty solid for a third line player. However, the 25 PIM (as opposed to 24 in 16 more games last year), are troublesome. What's more troublesome, though, is the injury history. Grier has played 81, 78, and 62 games in his three seasons with the team. Granted, every player is going to miss a few games, but with Grier's advancing age (he'll be 35 in January), there's no guarantee that he'll be able to play more than the 62 he played this year.
If your argument is of the "Grier is important in the playoffs" type... well, that's a whole 'nother (bad) story. After posting 4 points (2 G, 2 A) in the 2007 playoffs (11 games) with the Sharks, Grier has only put up one point (an assist) in the 19 games since. I know he brings grit, but dammit, we need our big money guys to score.
Don't get me wrong, I've always liked Grier as a player. He's a hard worker, and a team guy. But with a team that's backed against the cap, can you really afford to pay Grier the $1.75 MM that he's currently making? As it stands, Grier is the fifth highest paid forward on the Sharks, and in my opinion, he's not earning that paycheck. In addition, multiple players from the Sharks' development affiliates showed that they were capable of playing on the pro squad. McGinn will be a solid NHL player, Vesce (also a UFA) showed that he can bring it nightly, and others such as Cavanagh and Staubitz have a chance to prove their worth during the preseason. Also, with the recovery of Torrey Mitchell, the Sharks have another piece that they can use on the third line and in penalty killing situations. Is skating Grier worth keeping one of these players on the bench? I don't think so.
You can use numbers to prove pretty much any point you want, but I'm thinking that Grier isn't who he used to be. I'd bring back Grier at a much lower price in a much smaller role. The Sharks need to make some changes, and this is one of the areas where they can cut some salary to bring in a need.
TCY's Final Offer: 750,000 over 2 years. He's going to get a better offer than that, but the offer is low in hopes that he won't even consider it.
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Sadly, I think Griersy has played his last game in teal.
I think that offer would be fair, I wouldn’t want to sign him for more than that, not when there are cheaper/younger options in the system. It’s too bad really, he’s been fun to watch, but it looks like his age is getting to his playing skills. The “Let’s go Grier” chant was one of my favorite moments of this season. Hopefully he’ll find work with someone else. The Rangers like wiley old vets right?
Also,
the 2007-2007 playoffs
Consider my mind blown.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
by Lurker Shark on May 5, 2009 6:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
it's almost hard to remember...
how much I loved Grier 2 seasons ago. His first year here he was awesome in the reg season and playoffs. He was one of my favorite players. Now…meh. I often forget he’s on the team. I agree that he’s gone. You don’t need stats to see that he has been declining, just use your gut. Although I love stats
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 6:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
can we get some empty netter stats TCY?
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 7:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And I didn’t even bring that up!
If my memory serves me correctly, he missed 2 this year.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here i did it...
In his three seasons as a shark:
2 ENG, 0 ENG, 1 ENG.
yea turns out it’s not an impressive stat at all becuase it doesn’t tell us how many he COULD have scored
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 7:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT, but on a side note...
did you guys know Joe Pavs led the team in shots this season?
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 7:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Crazy huh?
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember when I was complaining how he was passing too much and not shooting enough. How things change…
by mymclife on May 5, 2009 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he'll be gone
He’s always been billed as a defensive forward, and I have no problem with that. Sure, his inability to score is annoying, but if he can shut down the other team, that is worth dealing with his hands of stone. However, as the year went on, he became more and more of a liability in his own zone. He couldn’t clear the puck, he couldn’t disrupt passes, and he was too slow to make for when he was caught out of position.
So the guy became a defensive liability who can’t score, doesn’t fight, and rarely sets ups scoring plays. Yeah, he brings all these intangibles to the team with his leadership and work ethic, but intangibles alone aren’t enough, especially when you have a team full of them in guys like JR and Boyle (I’d include Blake, but I’m not sure if he’ll be resigned only for cap-related reasons).
And then what little offense he does manage to bring – I know two of his goals were when he was on a line with Cheechoo and Thornton that one game, and pretty much all of his SH points were when he was paired with Marleau. I haven’t looked at the numbers, but I would believe its pretty safe to say that that accounts for about half of his offensive production – when he was on a line with one of the top guys. And since that situation happens rarely, its just not enough.
by mymclife on May 5, 2009 7:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m just gonna throw these 3 paragraphs randomly into the article.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Grier (probably) gone
does that mean we see Little Joe with the permanent “A”? Tune in next week for the thrilling finale…
by Chicago Shark on May 5, 2009 8:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There could be a big shakeup coming...
But if the team were to roll out as currently constituted… it’s a toss up between Vlasic and Pavs.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where’s all the love for Boyle that was so prevalent about a week ago?
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on May 5, 2009 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's good, and a leader...
but it seems a little early to slap an A on him at this point, IMO.
Yes, I'm from the tropics. Yes, I love hockey. What's not to get?
by workthecycle on May 5, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good Choice as well.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously...
Boyle will have the C because Marleau isn’t a leader and will probably be traded along with Thornton because they both suck in the playoffs and aren’t real leaders. Therefore, he can’t have the A as well, although he’s probably amazing enough to wear both!
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on May 5, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah and I’m tired of hearing this sprained MLC bs cuz their was this guy Yzermen who had 50 minutes TOI and 6 goals per game with 2 broken knees and a live grizzly bear latched onto his foot and that’s really the standard if u want to be Team Commander in the NHL league so no 2 game winning goals doesn’t cut it.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
by strongrobot on May 5, 2009 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Grier was awesome
but we need to spend the money someplace else
by Brian5517209 on May 5, 2009 8:21 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh Mike...
I think one stat that I would like to see is breakaways. He got so many short handed breakaways this season. I think he may have capitalized on one.
I have been one of the larger Grier detractors this season, partly because of his lack of point production. I think I was probably a little harsher than I should have been. I mean, you dont get to wear the A if you arent well respected and well thought of by the rest of the guys.
At one of the games when he missed another epic shorthanded breakaway attempt, I knew the outcome of the play before it even happened. I crossed my fingers and hoped that he would warp into Mitchell or Curtis Brown. But just like Grier potentially scoring on a breakaway, that didnt happen either.
I can see them making him either an offer a little higher than 750,000 (But not by much) Or no offer at all.
What will happen to the Mike Grier 2-5 Crew?
by Morti on May 5, 2009 8:31 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
He's gotta go
He is a turnover machine, but not in the good way. I always loved how the Comcast crew would say, “he’s pacing himself” when he was nonchalantly skating around the zone. I think I have more offensive prowess and I haven’t even been on ice skates since I was 15.
by stufflife on May 5, 2009 9:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I always loved how the Comcast crew would say, "he’s pacing himself" when he was nonchalantly skating around the zone.
That had me absolutely rolling haha. Good stuff.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on May 5, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t vote. It’s one of those times when you know the answer, but just don’t want to say it out loud. I’ll leave it for the rest to say. I’ve always loved Grier. And would defend him when people here would tease him about the empty net, given that too many of our guys have issues with empty nets. So … I know there is a right answer, I’m just choosing to avoid it.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
by ang6666 on May 5, 2009 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I love Grier, but his time in teal has come to an end
But we’ll always have this
I'm a happy seal
by SwisherThresher on May 5, 2009 9:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Never been a huge Grier fan...
It seems like we got him just past the peak, and he’s been in decline ever since he joined us. His first year here was good, but he’s been a liability since. All things being equal (monitarily) I’d rather resign Moen…but I’m not sure either of them will be back. Grier’s time in teal should be up.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on May 5, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i was for Moen too
but his playoff performance didn’t show much either…so now i don’t know
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd sign Pyatt...
who is a UFA as well, over both Grier and Moen.
More on that later…
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Pyatt
… but I think we get Moen much cheaper (Moen made under 1 mill. last season and is looking at a contract of no more then 1 mill. next year, while Pyatt made 1.5 mill last year and could be looking at a raise based on past numbers). Yes, his playoff performance wasn’t great (but that can be said for just about everyone in teal). I guess it depends on what we’re looking for. I believe Moen is a better 4th-liner and defensive, shutdown player with the potential for some points. Pyatt is more of a 3rd-line scorer with some defense, but more of an attacker. If we’re talking about who replaces Grier, I think think Moen is the better choice, but Pyatt would be a good acquisition too. The cap will obviously play a rule and I think the Sharks have too many players on their roster they’ll have to account for in the next two off-seasons to take the more-costly option on 3rd/4th liners.
by Teas on May 5, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
It’s all about the cap. Moves will have to be made regardless, so it doesn’t really matter what I say.
I just like Pyatt.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i feel like we need to wait for a separate thread
to specifically discuss what we think the team is missing, what kinds of players we need
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coming eventually.
Plank and I wanted to talk about who we had in house before we started discussing outside players.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they have the whole summer to fill up the blog … :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
by ang6666 on May 5, 2009 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I’ll happily contribute to that conversation too.
btw, for a big laugh, check out Wysh’s (poor) attempt to explain why trading Marleau for Chris Drury makes any sense for San Jose.
by Teas on May 5, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that!
I commented that sending Marleau to the Rags would be shameful. All the Douche Bags in NY would rip poor Patty to shreds.
Not the way you repay someone for all their years of servitude.
Also, Holy Salary Cap Batman! Why would we want to take on all of the extra salary for that guy?
by Morti on May 5, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Drury?
DO NOT WANT
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
AT ALL
EVER
Yes, I'm from the tropics. Yes, I love hockey. What's not to get?
by workthecycle on May 5, 2009 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, why don't we trade him for ...
Spezza? Or Alfreddson? Whichever one was the lazy, non-backskating one. The guys at Yahoo don’t understand the difference between salary and performance.
In that case, maybe Marleau is worth a 70% contract with Sundin!
by stufflife on May 5, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm...strange
it seems the justification is that Drury is more expensive, puts up worse numbers, and is older…
huh?
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a way better trade for NY.
I have my own Patty scenario… itt’l drop sometime in the near future.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you in favor of Patty leaving?
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but I’m not as against it as most are.
I would expect a big return for him, and if it had to happen I have a few players I’d like to see as part of the package.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that’s some HFBoards shit. Horrible move (for the Sharks).
Let Glen Sather deal with his contracts, we don’t wanna touch em’.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on May 5, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We want to Roster-Bate now!!!
Well, I do. ;)
by Morti on May 5, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rostercourse.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 5, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't worry about it TCY
you should let Morti Rosterbate for a while until you come out with an official thread. you wouldn’t want him to get blue balls …or blue pucks i guess
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
blue chippers?
the dreaded “blue line”
Yes, I'm from the tropics. Yes, I love hockey. What's not to get?
by workthecycle on May 5, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rostercourse would be nice
But for those of us who are going it alone….
by Morti on May 5, 2009 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No need for you to go it alone my friend.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
by Lurker Shark on May 5, 2009 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, when we are all involved
is is rosterorgy?
Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad, and the 2nd round can be bad on the heart
by Dave Valentine on May 6, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good sir.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 6, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
from the sharks official site...
http://csnbayarea.com/pages/video
a link to some interviews with Coach McLellan
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
video #103
former Beverly Hills 90201 star Jason Priestley’s analysis of the Sharks…
huh?
by a10dency2ask on May 5, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Priestly is Canadian. So I suppose that gives him the right!
Big time hockey player too. I remember reading in a magazine back when 90210 was a hit the first time around, he talked about how he got his teeth pushed through his lip after a puck hit him in the chops.
He looks like a visor wearing Euro to me, so I’m not sure if I buy that story!
by Morti on May 5, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s really too bad this is a no-brainer, as I have some pretty fond memories of Mike “Everyday I’m Hustlin’” Grier. He and Torrey Mitchell absolutely killed it on the PK (no pun intended?) last season, and it’s a shame to see him go.
Assuming we keep Michalek, Pavelski, and Marleau, they will help plug the PK hole; Mitchell playing a full season won’t hurt either. Like you mentioned, he’s fairly expendable in this regard, although the size (and skill set) of those forwards concerns me a bit. Having Patty, Pavs, and Michalek logging big PK minutes isn’t the most ideal of circumstances, and I’m not sure if we have an in-house answer besides Moen*. That’s what concerns me about letting him go.
*Can you even consider Moen “in-house”? He’s more like the guy who came over for dinner one night and ended up crashing on your couch because he drank too much wine.
Alas, it’s time to bid adieu. Grier could easily get a deal worth at least 1.5 from a team on the cusp looking for leadership and defense, and our cap situation just won’t be able to handle that. You have to figure he’s also looking for a three year deal considering his age and declining numbers- it’s the last big contract he’s likely to get. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hitchcock and the Jackets make a solid offer.
Man I hate this part of the year, especially when it comes so damn early.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on May 5, 2009 12:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I have some pretty fond memories of Mike "Everyday I’m Hustlin’" Grier
Awesome. Pardon my ignorance, but did you just make that nickname up?
*Can you even consider Moen "in-house"? He’s more like the guy who came over for dinner one night and ended up crashing on your couch because he drank too much wine.
Agreed, and hilarious. At least he didn’t pee on the couch, right?
Man I hate this part of the year, especially when it comes so damn early.
Me too :(.
Yes, I'm from the tropics. Yes, I love hockey. What's not to get?
by workthecycle on May 5, 2009 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be sad when Mike Grier leaves
I’m so used to seeing #25. Money is probably best spent elsewhere.
I had fun watching the Sharks, point of being a fan right?
by idunno723 on May 5, 2009 5:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
no
but if he’s willing to come back cheap like TCY’s 2 year offer, then maybe, depends if we sign anyone or bring anyone up
"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra
by serrapadre716 on May 5, 2009 6:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you guys hear about the 'Yotes?
I fanposted about it… briefly. Mostly to allow a place for discussion to occur in an organized fashion. Why, because I care, of course.
Yes, I'm from the tropics. Yes, I love hockey. What's not to get?
by workthecycle on May 5, 2009 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I liked Grier
only because he had the potential of bringing some energy to an otherwise lifeless #1 and #2 lines at times. I think the injury hurt this year, and it’s not a true fair comparison to years past. I kinda hate to see him go, but can we spend the money elsewhere in a better fashion? If DW is going to be in the Sedin-contest, we need to make sure we’ve got the $$$ to spend. He’ll end up somewhere, and probably beat the Sharks some night with an ENG just to piss us all off.
by Tahoe on May 6, 2009 1:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i voted yes just because for that cheap he's worth having on the fourth line,
in my opinion, that’s just how I thought it as.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on May 6, 2009 7:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yea... for 750,000 he's worth it...
But not for the 1.5 he’s going to probably get somewhere else.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on May 6, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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