UFA of the Day: Claude Lemieux
by Mr. Plank on Jun 1, 2009 7:31 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
73 comments
A meticulous and detailed breakdown of Claude Lemieux's future with the San Jose Sharks follows the jump. Should San Jose re-sign him for the 2009-2010 season?
No.
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uh no
why would we even need him?
"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra
by serrapadre716 on Jun 1, 2009 9:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If he'd provided us with more this season
I’d give more serious thought to resigning him. But I didn’t see enough benefit to the Sharks from his return. The story is fantastic, and I admire the guy for deciding to get back into the game and into shape after a few years off, but he didn’t preform as well as I had hoped. Was he trying? Yes. But it wasn’t paying dividends.
Pepe, sir. If you can find another team, go for it. I’m not against you playing, I just feel like you aren’t quite right for the Sharks at this time.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I endorse this sentiment as well
I think the Atlanta Thrashers could use him, no?
Fear The Fin = We're not as think as you drunk we are.
by Mr. K. on Jun 1, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pepe, sir. If you can find another team, go for it. I’m not against you playing, I just feel like you aren’t quite right for the Sharks at this time.
That’s hockey for, “It’s not you, it’s me.”
by Juicebag on Jun 4, 2009 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I would call it meticulous, but it is spot-on.
by stufflife on Jun 1, 2009 9:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha
Plank with your morning ZING!
Fear The Fin = We're not as think as you drunk we are.
by Mr. K. on Jun 1, 2009 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps it was the man himself? Don’t some of the players trawl through here on occasion?
by stufflife on Jun 1, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on occasion.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on Jun 1, 2009 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do?
I hope all they find is the good stuff.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
by Morti on Jun 1, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I were a player
I don’t know that I’d want to see what fans thought of me. Although, we tend to be pretty level headed here, as opposed to other spots on teh internets. Whatever our opinions are on certain players, I think the vast majority of us want to see them succeed, even if it’s not with the Sharks. That’s got to count for something, right?
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true that
id love to see Lemeiux make his remarkable comeback but i also want to see some of our younger players step in and play on the fourth line
by Brian5517209 on Jun 1, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i want to see them play as well,
but most of the players that we would be bringing up would be in more of a finese skilled roll; whereas claude can provide that physicality/forecheck pressure that works well with a shut-down checking type of line.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is, he can’t score. And for a team that scored a whopping 1.67 goals per game in the playoffs, that doesn’t help. I mean, yeah we don’t expect the third/fourth lines to contribute most of the offense, but when the drop-off from the second to the third and fourth lines is as severe as it was this year (I believe it was something like a 30 point difference), that’s a problem. Lemieux’s sole point didn’t exactly set the world on fire, you know?
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
putting finese
players on a grinding line just doesn’t make sense thats all I’m saying, I’d much rather have claude lemieux or jeremy roenick playing on our fourth line thank couture, vesce, mcginn, or kaspar. If we are taking about a guy like riley armstrong I might actually be down with that just because the way that guy plays.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, I’m also of the opinion that teams need three scoring lines, with the third having a focus on defense (so not Goc and Grier, but perhaps Mitchell and McGinn) and the fourth with a rookie, a cheap grinder, and perhaps an enforcer – all who can score more than 10 points a season. I mean, look at Detroit with guys like Helm and Abdewhatever – they’re getting significant offensive and defensive contributions from these guys in the Finals, and they’re playing on the fourth line. I’m not saying we should fill the fourth line with guys like Kaspar (ugh) or Couture, but just some quick guys that can play that shut-down/energy role. Roenick for one, and maybe bring up Frazer McLaren if he does well in training camp.
So, yeah, Lemieux might be a good grinder, but he’s too slow to effectively shut down any line he might come up against, and can’t score to make up for that, ultimately hurting the Sharks.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
those guys you were referencing on the wings are physical players
thats why i would advocate bringing up a armstrong rather than the other guys for a fourth line type of role. If you don’t want the young bucks on the 4th line and you don’t want the old guys who do you want?
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, I already said I’d like JR and perhaps F. McLaren – an old guy and an immensely physical prospect (not exactly a goal-scorer, but not someone who has only 5 points either), and maybe throw in Staubitz/Shelley in there as well. The difference between JR and Lemieux is that JR still has a bit of a nose for the net, especially in clutch situations, and is pretty much the “energizer bunny” for the team. Lemieux is not.
Basically, I want grinders who aren’t liabilities on the ice (which Lemieux was a few times) and who can fill in on spots on higher lines if need be (Lemieux cannot). Rookies would be great for this role, and JR could be there to give a veteran presence.
Plus, Lemieux and JR on the same line would officially be the oldest line in the NHL, bar none.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
if thats your criteria
armstrong would be a much better choice over mclaren
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
grinder with no liability on the ice,
guess that throws staubitz, shelley, and mclaren out the window
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't write off Staubitz already.
Don’t forget he is a recently converted defenseman. There’s plenty of upside for him in a 4th line role. Another year playing up front should see him figure out what he’s doing out there and become less of a liability.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'll never be an offensive powerhouse,
if thats what you are implying I might be okay with him on the fourth line even with his incompetence offensively, he brings toughness and decent skating, I might actually favor mclaren over staubitz but he’s a bit more raw. Truly I am a huge fan of armstrong he is a scorer that can bring a tremendous amount of toughness to the table something I find very compelling and certainly fits mymclifes criteria.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by offensive powerhouse
you mean the offensive powerhouse that is Douglas Murray. Then, yes, I think he’ll be one. Seriously though, he’ll be an enforcer that can skate, be a pest, and occasionally tickle the twine. He just needs a little more seasoning. He needs to figure out he’s out there to do more than make the big hit. Much like Murray had to.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm okay with staubitz
as long as he’s not playing alongside shelley and not taking stupid penalty after stupid penalty. As far as scoring goes, yeah not so much.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hence his need for a little seasoning.
(mmm delicious prospect)
I wouldn’t want to seem him dressed in San Jose if Shelley was. I mean, the only real reason to dress two enforcers is if one of them can’t win fights and needs backup. Oh, wait…
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, that’s technically true for both of them. Shelley went undefeated for the first part of the season (with a few draws thrown in), and pretty much all of Staubitz’s fights were a draw with perhaps one very notable exception.
But what’s really sad was when both kind of sucked, and they left it up to Semenov, who can’t get a fighting major to save his life.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Maybe they could combine their powers and win a few.
Looking at it now, maybe the thought process behind Semenov’s “roughing” calls was an indication of where the officiating was going to end up by the postseason. “Let’s see here. Gloves came off, check. Punches thrown, check. Linesmen had to step in and break it up, check. Ok, now what was the rule about this kind of thing called again? Oh, I know! Roughing!”
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 each for roughing,
what the hell if thats roughing then what the hell is fighting that was one of the weirdest hockey games i’ve ever seen in my life
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
seasoning, no seasoning
the guys not a scorer thats the bottom line
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No,
and again, I didn’t say he was. Seasoning should cut down on the stupid penalties, defensive miscues, et cetera, et cetera.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i thought thats what you implied
i like staubitz too but like you said he could use some time to try and play a bit smarter
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t mind Staubitz/Shelley getting a limited number of games – just nothing like the 70 games Shelley had (albeit that was mainly due to the the black holes of injuries that were the third and fourth lines). The 35 that Staubitz had sounds more reasonable (especially since a large portion of those 35 games were played with Shelley because of the aforementioned injuries).
And you are seriously underestimating McLaren – he worked his way up from a maybe fourth-liner on Worcester to a serious third/fourth liner who fills in where necessary, who was also a key member of the PP and PK. Yeah, the penalty kill.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you want a grinder with no liability
thats what mclaren would be as well as staubitz and shelley, just going by what you said.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, maybe I mis-spoke/typed/whatever – I don’t mean that they wouldn’t be a liability at all, a la regular season Vlasic, but as solid defensively as you’re going to get with largely sub-$700K players. Frazer McLaren fits the bill. Shelley and Staubitz, not so much, but it is somewhat beneficial to have an enforcer on the team. Only one though, because I don’t want to go through having a completely ineffective fourth line that consists of Plihal-Shelley-Staubitz again (just typing that line out made me shudder).
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another thing – from what I’ve been reading about Frazer McLaren, he’s somewhat of a Holmstrom-type player, in that he plants his butt in front of the crease and screens the goaltender. Always a plus.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like mclaren a lot,
but the fact of the matter is he just hasn’t scored much lately, but if you want to put him on a fourth line, I’m okay with that as long as it doesn’t include staubitz or shelley. I think my point is that we have to choose between them. I think mclaren is a bit raw and he will be in san jose a year from now but we shall see.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anybody from the Sharks organization has been scoring much lately, lol.
But, joking aside, from what I’ve read he along with DaSilva and Desjardins kept the team in the playoffs race during a late season slump. IIRC, those three made up Worcester’s third line. So, yeah. Awesome.
Although, I do have to agree – I’d much rather he’d stay in Worcester for at least one more season to develop further. I’d just like to see the Sharks pursue some guy like McLaren for the big club’s fourth line.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol, are you kidding me
we are talking about seasons here he like 10 points in 70 games.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just repeating what I’ve read.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just saying
don’t act like mclaren is a scorer
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not
I’m advocating for him to be on the fourth line – a largely non-scoring line. His presence in front of the net, physical play, and defensive capabilities are what interests me. The fact that he can help a team through a slump is even better.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think anybody from the Sharks organization has been scoring much lately, lol.
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
frazer is to shelley whereas
armstrong is to pavelski with an edgeness and griterness
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoosh...
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how did you do that
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
magic
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you truly are amazing
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 2, 2009 6:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/me bows
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 2, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
whups i read that as "me blows"
i guess thats what ctgray said
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 2, 2009 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Freudian of you
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 2, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
on occasion.
“Hold them horses there sonny, that’s a pretty bold statement. I’m a man of the facts, and before you go off tooting your horn, we’re going to need to see some hard evidence.”
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jun 1, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I only say this because...
on Dan Boyle’s personally owned and operated website, he lists Fearthefin.com on his blogroll.
It’s one of only four hockey/Sharks blogs there.
Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!
by That'll Cheech You on Jun 1, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
THAT
is awesome.
Swisher sent JR an email that linked to the site. So he may have stopped by as well.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You haven't been here long have you?
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
no he hasn’t
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SwisherThresher.
Fear The Fin = We're not as think as you drunk we are.
by Mr. K. on Jun 2, 2009 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
board member
with a great name
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 2, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not for San Jose
Maybe for Worcester; from what I heard, he was a good, veteran presence on the bench for the WorSharks and helped with their development through his massive amounts of hockey knowledge. He’s just too old and slow for the NHL.
But, yeah. Between him, Blake, and JR our team’s average age shot up by two years or something. Blake is still an extremely effective defenseman, JR is pure energy, but Pepe just doesn’t quite have it.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2009 3:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t mind seeing him back with the WorSharks.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
by CTGray on Jun 1, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was really excited for him but...
He just kind of fizzled. I love the idea of older/experienced players coming to the Sharks IF they bring something to the table. Plus, a.) it makes me not feel so old when I look at the birth dates of the players and b.) still gives me hope that I could one day play in the NHL (yes – I know the whole gender, race, I haven’t played in a year would also be an issue, but you know I’d give FTF a shout-out during my conn smythe speech…a girl can dream, right?)
I was also hoping he would add some ‘toughness.’ I kind of like the idea of us having a good but dirty player who can get under the other player’s skins and actually score (i.e. Perry, Lucic, Pronger, Avery, etc.)
by AfroPuff on Jun 1, 2009 3:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm in the minority here, I'll share my thoughts in a little bit,
but just curious anyone bold enough to say they voted yes with me?
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 4:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
guess i'm on my own for this one (digs hole)
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 1, 2009 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
No worries man – be bold as part of the extreme minority.
Fear The Fin = We're not as think as you drunk we are.
by Mr. K. on Jun 2, 2009 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's an awesome story,
but no, I wouldn’t want to seem him back with the big club. For just a couple hundred thousand more than Lemieux would cost, we could get someone younger, faster, and able to play at least 60 games to fill a checking line roll.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jun 1, 2009 7:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't need both Uncle Claude and JR
I prefer JR, if only due to his quotability.
by DetroiterInNorCal on Jun 2, 2009 8:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
please don't let unlce clause go
I don't like you Detroit.
by mattman on Jun 3, 2009 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does quotability increase after drinkability?
by Juicebag on Jun 4, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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