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Predictions For The NHL Draft

Nhl_-_2009_draft_montréal__english__medium

Montreal- "Obviously the world revolves around us"

1) Jonathan Cheechoo gets traded. We've been saying this all year long, and draft day is the logical place for Wilson will make his move. The reasons for doing this are purely economical- with the salary cap situation in San Jose, payroll needs to be shed. A three million dollar per year contract on the third line makes any hope for improvements this offseason and next a lot harder to come by.

A former Rocket Richard winner can get a decent haul even with declining numbers, and his contract is definitely affordable. Getting a serviceable roster player in San Jose would be a bonus, but with Jamie McGinn the likely solution to take Cheechoo's role on the team, it's unlikely that happens. Wilson will attempt to replenish the coffers after making multiple "buy" deals over the last three seasons- a second or third round pick (with a possible mid-level prospect thrown in) will be the return.

2) Jeremy Roenick heads to the podium immediately after Tavares is drafted to declare he will be playing in San Jose next season. "This Tavares kid's got a bright future but JR's back, JR's freaking back baby!"

3) The Sharks will not draft in the first round for the second straight season. Roughly one month ago Mark Purdy of the San Jose Mercury News speculated that Doug Wilson would go after a first round draft pick in Montreal. On our end of the spectrum, we proposed that Thornton, Marleau, Boyle, and Nabokov would be the players who could achieve this in a non-package deal.

Patrick Marleau and Evgeni Nabokov are the two names who would likely be moved- the fanbase has grown cold on Patty's role as Captain during the playoffs despite the fact he has consistently been the best postseason performer every year since the lockout. Trading him at this juncture would yield a high return and make next offseason's decisions easier when he, Setoguchi, Pavelski, and Nabokov will be up for free agency. However, Marleau's NTC and poor performance in the 2007-2008 regular season with trade rumors at a fevered pitch makes it unlikely Wilson has even asked him for a list of potential teams he would be willing to play for. If this conversation has happened, the hope would be it took place immediately after the first round loss to the Ducks, with multiple players being asked the same question as to avoid singling out the Captain. At the end of the day, Marleau's two way skills and lofty point totals will prove to be too much for Wilson to part with.

Evgeni Nabokov also poses an interesting possibility for a team on the brink of contention that is looking for a goaltender. Although he posted an unsatisfactory sub .890 SV% during the playoffs, history has proven goaltenders going into a contract year tend to rise above their career average. Along with his NTC, Wilson will decide against moving the goaltender at the draft due to the fact San Jose's goaltending prospects, while promising, are not ready to shoulder a 60 game NHL workload. A first round draft pick will not change that fact.

4) Montreal is razed to the ground. That joke has really lost it's fire. No more references to the first round riots of 08, I promise.

5) Wilson comes close to dealing Michalek or Ehrhoff, but decides to wait it out until after July 1st. Although the return would likely be a pick and a serviceable NHL player, Wilson will be content with Cheechoo's draft pick and stand pat. Opposing GM's will be intrigued by the skill, potential, and age of both of these players however- by laying the groundwork in Montreal, Wilson sets the stage for a Dan Boyle-esque move in early July and incites a bidding war for their rights.

 

Go Sharks.

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2009 Sharks Draft Selections (exact pick numbers to be determined)
Picks the Sharks hold are in bold

1st round – Traded to Tampa Bay in package to acquire Dan Boyle and Brad Lukowich
2nd round – BUFFALO (acquired in Craig Rivet trade)
2nd round – SAN JOSE
3rd round – Traded to Tampa Bay in package for a 2008 3rd round selection (Drew Daniels)
4th round – Traded to Los Angeles in package for a 2008 4th round selection (Samuel Groulx)
4th round – Acquired from Toronto in Toskala/Bell trade. Traded to Nashville in package for a 4th round selection in 2008 (Hari Satteri)
5th round – SAN JOSE
6th round – Traded to Columbus in exchange for Jody Shelley
7th round – SAN JOSE

- “Wilson Readies For Upcoming Entry Draft”

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 22, 2009 9:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That first round pick sure has gotten around… San Jose to Tampa Bay to Ottawa to Long Island all in one season must set some kind of record.

Oh, and the lack of draft picks concerns me a bit, but hey – this organization has shown that draft position doesn’t matter. And as long as 67s, Germans, or goalies don’t lure DW away, we’re good.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

despite the fact he has consistently been the best postseason performer every year since the lockout.

You should make that bold. No one else sees it!

Oh about the post: I wouldn’t mind if all this happened!

by idunno723 on Jun 22, 2009 10:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Found these stats on HF Boards
Since 2002, in the playoffs Patrick Marleau:

leads the NHL in GWG (10)
is 2nd in goals at even strength (18)
is 2nd in total goals scored (1 behind Zetterberg with 32)
is tied for 1st in SHG (3)
is tied for 3rd in PPG (11)

And this is despite the Sharks never reaching the SCF, getting past the second round only once, and missing the playoffs and bowing out in the first round once each.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amazing.

Next season I’m gonna put that on a poster at a game or something… haha

by idunno723 on Jun 22, 2009 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Assuming he’s still with the team.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 22, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

HE WILL BE ON THE TEAM

I have decreed it.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sophie's Choice...

Mitchell or Marleau. I want to know who you love more.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 22, 2009 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aw crap

Uhhhhhhh… Geez. This is quite possibly the hardest decision I’ve had to make. Which is kind of sad, now that I think about it.

I might have to go with Torrey, just because he’s not married. But I don’t want either to leave the Sharks, ever. EVER.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

should I tell Marleau you don’t love him? I don’t know how he’ll take it.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 22, 2009 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Noooo! Don’t tell him that! I have enough room in my heart to love them both, albeit in different ways!

And, judging by his performance in 07-08, he’d probably sulk about it and only score 48 points. So it would be for the betterment of the team if you didn’t tell him ;)

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if he gets traded, I’ll tell him then ;)

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 22, 2009 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he won’t, so I guess he’ll never know.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he might, so he might.

Sorry, this lack of Sharks news is boring me.

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 22, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too. I’ve been reduced to looking up Sharks playoffs stats since their inception. Did you know that of the teams that have beaten us, 1 lost in the semi-finals, 7 lost in the conference finals, and 4 lost in the SCF?

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So the lesson here is

don’t beat the Sharks?

It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K

by Lurker Shark on Jun 23, 2009 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its just don’t meet the Sharks in the playoffs, cause either way you’re not going to win the Stanley Cup (cause if they win, they never win the Cup, and if they lose, well, they lost).

In my boredom, I did a full write-up here (yup, pimping my site).

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

And you know what I did out of my anger boredom. Look at Bleacher Report

Make sure to look at the comments too.

by idunno723 on Jun 22, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay

I must sleep now. I have to wake up at 7! What is wrong with the world?!

by idunno723 on Jun 22, 2009 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, nice

But there should be a H/T to PotaGuitar at HF Boards – he’s the one that I completely stole those stats from. I take no credit, besides copying and pasting them.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously, I’m tempted to make a quick little graphic just to post online whenever people are like, “ZOMG MARLO SUX IN TEH PLAYOFFS!!!”

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 22, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am in favor of this graphic. I see that somewhere almost every single day.

by SpalWizzall on Jun 22, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Melikey.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

Now somebody green this.

It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K

by Lurker Shark on Jun 23, 2009 6:34 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

green baby green

that isn’t funny but it sounds it at 7:30am

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 23, 2009 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

only 1st in GWG?!?! WTF?!?!

GWG- God Worthy Gifts?

"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra

by serrapadre716 on Jun 23, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Eh, you’re reaching there. We’ll let it slide because it’s summer.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

offseason is boring me

"It aint over till the fat lady sings." - Not Yogi Berra

by serrapadre716 on Jun 23, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marleau's numbers

are very good numbers, but ultimately deceptive. 54 points in 70 are respectable – .77 points per game: 32 goals (0.45 goals per game) but hardly what I would call untouchable. Yes, his GWG number is impressive, but look at the games he’s won – in games where the Sharks were already down 2-0 and 3-1 to Anaheim in 08-09, none in 07-08 (and only 4 in 13 games), one 06-07 in Game 5 of the first round against Nashville and didn’t score a single point in the following 6 games against Detroit, and two in 05-06 with both coming in the first round against Nashville and only two in 6 games against the Edmonton. His playoff numbers are much better in the playoffs pre-lockout, but in 4 of the 5 years he’s been the full-time captain and ‘leader’ of the Sharks his playoffs numbers are hardly mind-blowing.

Patrick is a fine NHLer, no one is gonna deny him that. He has an amazing skill set and at times has proven a pivotal player. But his numbers scream inconsistent (both in the regular and post-season). And his character just doesn’t impress as far as a being a Stanley Cup-caliber winning Captain. He isn’t Sidney Crosby, nor Nick Lidstrom or Scott Niedermayer or even a Rod Brinda’mour – players that bring certain intangibles that Patty has just never shown to possess when the games matter most. He’s a more then adequate player and you generally know that you’ll get some good contributions from him, but again, where are the big games when they really matter? Even the year we almost made it to the Cup finals he only had 2 points (1 goal and 1 assist in Game 4) in the Conference Final and no GWGs.

His numbers reflect good all-around Sharks teams as much as they truly reflect his individual quality and talent in the playoffs. I don’t think any pro-trade Marleau fan is advocating giving him away for nothing, but I think there are a lot of trade possibilities that keep the Sharks as skilled as they would be with Marleau, but drastically shake up a team that excels over long-haul but wilts time and time again in pressure-cooker, do-or-die situations (the playoffs).

The question is, what do we stand to lose if the Sharks enter the 2009-10 season with Marleau on the roster? We have a ton of talent up and down the line-up and as much as most in our farm systems. We’ll get a good haul in return for him and we’ll shake a leadership that has ultimately come up short (and for the past 3 seasons failed) us.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 22, 2009 11:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

  • clarification on my stats – ‘only 4 in 13 games’ means 4 total goals (not game winning goals). ‘only two in 6 games’ also refers to total goals (he had no GWGs against Edmonton).

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 22, 2009 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that whole stat line is to refute those who say that Marleau is a playoff choker – not to prove that Marleau is some amazing god in the playoffs. I mean, the number of times I’ve heard, “I don’t want Marleau on my team because he chokes in the playoffs,” is mind-blowing, and kind of annoying.

And if you couldn’t tell from the above conversation, I love Marleau and do NOT want to see him traded, but its more than just me having an irrational crush on the guy – Marleau is top line center/LW that can and has scored 80+ points in a season. He’s defensively responsible, and can be the go-to guy on the PK. He can single-handedly turn things in the Sharks’ favor (the two-goal St. Louis game, the breakaway against Detroit in the 6-5 game, and the game against Boston immediately spring to mind).

Another thing is, there isn’t really a guy out there in the market that brings a similar skill set that Marleau does – fast, can score, and is a solid two-way player. The Sharks would probably want to aim for a cheaper, younger player, and all those out there probably won’t be traded away. I just don’t see the Sharks getting a fair return for Marleau.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 12:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don’t see the Sharks getting a fair return for Marleau.

That’s been my thought process this entire offseason- of course there are players I would trade him for, but the majority of those players are going to be labeled as “untouchable” by their respective teams. I’d take a Datsyuk, Lecavalier, or Nash, but the asking price for those players is going to be much more than just Patrick Marleau.

Finding a player who will be a Selke candidate the next five years is tough enough. Throw in the fact that he’s hitting the peak years of his career, loves San Jose & is established here with a child (i.e. more likely to take a “hometown discount” when renegotiating his next contract), and just put up an excellent season? That’s a high price to pay for a first round draft pick (who could turn out to be Lukas Kaspar).

I’ve said this before, but Nik Lidstrom isn’t a fire and brimstone guy- he’s won four Stanley Cups. Jarome Iginla is heralded as a top flight leader, but the Flames haven’t gotten out of the first round since the lockout.

I’m not content with the postseason performance, but let’s not forgot San Jose won the Presidents’ Trophy this season. The Anaheim Ducks were a brutal 8 seed and took the Red Wings to game seven- Cleary scored with three minutes remaining in the third to give them a win. Nabokov was god-awful while Hiller had a save percentage slightly over .950. The entire second line of Pavelski, Clowe, and Michalek accounted for 2 goals, 2 assists, and a -10. There’s a lot of blame to go around, and while Marleau definitely deserves some of that, he was playing on a sprained MCL and managed to notch both game winning goals (which coincidentally were the two games San Jose managed to win). If that’s not playing with “heart”, I’m not sure what is.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 1:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And this
loves San Jose & is established here with a child (i.e. more likely to take a "hometown discount" when renegotiating his next contract)

is why DW is looking like a genius in my book with that short contract and nobody knowing what’s going to happen with the cap in the next couple years.

It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K

by Lurker Shark on Jun 23, 2009 6:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of this comes of as complacency to me

Again, no one is gonna question that Marleau is a fine player with a good skill set. But he’s relied on as one of our top snipers and his goal-scoring record just isn’t that impressive when it matters most and for a guy with his abilities to still never have a 40 goal season is concerning. I’m glad he shows up in some games during the playoffs, but he doesn’t show up in just as many games , if not more (see every playoff series we’ve lost in the past 5 years). Yes, he does have some important goals, but when he isn’t scoring a game-winner, he isn’t scoring much at all, which just can’t happen when you’re the captain and a focal point of the offense. He’s a nice part of the team, but he’s not a dynamic player and to think he’ll suddenly become one is a bit naive.

This talk about him entering his prime now also seems rather foolish to me. He’s been in the league for 11 seasons (12 years), and will be 30 by the beginning of next year and only now he’s entering his prime? If he was a defenseman I could buy that, but he’s had a very long time to develop and frankly, he just has never developed into a gamebreaker that you’d expect from a guy with his speed and size. Furthermore, his playoffs numbers have actually seem to decline over his career and particularly since being the captain. Maybe it was a mistake to name him captain, but the franchise made that decision and we must now deal with the repercussions.

Again, I’m not trying to say he’s not a good player or even a very good player, but I think it’s an absolute mistake for him to continue to be counted one as someone who gets it done in the playoffs cause he doesn’t. I’m not impressed with ‘heart’ or GWGs in a 1st or 2nd round, I wanna see it when we’re down to the last 4 or the final 2. It’d be unfair to blame him entirely for not getting us there, but his numbers and his position as franchise-cornerstone and captain demand extra attention and he continues to wilt. I know how gruely the playoffs can be, but not only do his numbers drop eventually, they nearly disappear. Look at the last 5 playoff years (his Captain years) in the rounds the Sharks were eliminated: 08-09: 2 goals in 6 games (1st round), 07-08: 2 goals in 6 games (2nd round), 06-07: 0 goals in 6 games (2nd round), 05-06: 2 goals in 6 games (2nd round), 03-04: 1 goal in 6 games (3rd round). While I hesitate to use the word ‘choke’, those numbers lean toward ineffective rather then effective, especially when this player is your leader, top scorer and important pivot. He’s not the only player on the team, but if any player has to be able to step up, alone, and get it done, it has to be the player-role designated on the Sharks for Patrick Marleau and he just hasn’t fulfilled that role.

If this was a a year or two trend, I’d be willing to let it go and expect more, but come on guys, this happens every season. If the Sharks lost a round, but Patty was scoring and doing his part, I’d let it go, but every round we crash out, Marleau is almost non-existent. This is especially troubling cause he’s even competing against the other team’s top d-pairing (who are usually assigned to shut down Thornton). We’re not just losing these series, either, we’re getting dumped unceremoniously with our most basic level of competitiveness constantly being questioned. This has not and does not be owed solely to Patrick Marleau, but as I’ve said multiple times, this is THE guy we’re suppose to be counting on to get it done we need him him most and time and time again he hasn’t.

If you guys wanna enter yet another season with the hope that this is the year Marleau figures out how to lead the team to the promise land, fine. But I’m sick and tired of year after year of getting my hopes up only for them to be wiped out and the Sharks dumped (not just eliminated) but dumped out of the playoffs way pre-maturely. Marleau has not even had one playoff year where you can say ‘hopefully he’ll have that playoff year’s form.’ Try comparing things outside the San Jose Sharks bubble and you’ll see he’s mediocre at best and that his playoff stats are waaaaaaay deceiving.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats a little selection bias, IMO

Simply taking the series that the Sharks lost as a basis for the stats to determine whether Marleau is “clutch” is going to obviously yield some negative results. I’m sure I could do that with most players. Unfortunately, the Sidney Crosby hat trick in a loss isn’t very common, nor is it necessarily desirable.

Also, the idea that the best player has to carry a team on its back by himself is pretty shortsighted as well. I used Steve Yzerman as an example before, he was much maligned as a captain until the Red Wings had their huge draft that got them Lidstrom, Konstantinov, etc., and even then they had to go out and sign Brendan Shanahan to put them over the top. Nothing changed in Yzerman’s game. Crosby didn’t carry his team alone (Max Talbot anybody?), Datsyuk and Zetterburg needed numerous timely performances from bit players.

I think Marleau is a VERY dynamic player, probably a top 15 forward when you include offense and defense. If he had sat out the playoffs (like Datsyuk) we probably aren’t even discussing whether to trade him. Instead, he plays on one leg and now he is trade bait. Trading him would be the definition of selling low.

by ruben398 on Jun 23, 2009 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d take a Datsyuk, Lecavalier, or Nash, but the asking price for those players is going to be much more than just Patrick Marleau.

Plus, have you seen Lecavalier’s contract? I don’t care how good he is, that thing is a major turn-off.

But, yeah. Marleau is likely to take a hometown discount for the Sharks, more so than almost any other player, and brings a skill set that isn’t easily replaced. I mean, he was fourth in Lady Byng voting and ninth in Selke voting – being the only Sharks player to be ranked somewhat highly in multiple awards categories.

And then, yeah, he got both GWG in the playoffs this year with the injury, one that takes away one of his greatest assets – his speed.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm tired of this cap-room debate

This ‘smart-money managing’ has led to 0 Stanley Cups and 0 Stanley Cup final appearances. You may like the Sharks’ status quo, but I’m tired of it.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that if you don’t manage cap space well, the team is going to suck. Look at the Lightning, who had to ship out Dan Boyle because they spent all their cap space on forwards. The Rangers are essentially screwed, what with all their huge contracts – they have almost no space to change their lineup, because nobody is going to take on Drury, Gomez, and Redden. This is a salary cap world, where the size and length of contracts mean almost as much as the players themselves.

And no, I’m not happy with the Sharks continually bowing out earlier than expected, but I also don’t think they should blow up the team over it. Marleau is much more valuable on the team than on the trading block, seeing how its near impossible to get an equal return for players with his skill set.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't equate trading Marleau to blowing up the team

I also don’t see why the Sharks can’t expect to get a good return in exchange for him.

If Marleau was making around 4.5 mill instead of 6.3 I wouldn’t mind so much, but he’s getting paid top sniper money and doesn’t produce top sniper numbers in the playoffs (I will concede he had a very nice regular season, but regular season success doesn’t mean much to me at this point).

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trading away one of the faces of the franchise – and the longest-tenured player on the team – does mean that they are blowing up the team, at least somewhat.

And the Sharks can’t get a good return because, as much as you try to deny it, Marleau does bring elite defensive skill to the table, as well as the ability to score goals and set up plays. He is in his prime, has leadership capabilities (he was chosen by the players in 2004 to be the captain, not the management), and is one of the fastest skaters in the NHL, period. If the Sharks were to trade him away, they would want to get a younger, cheaper player, which generally aren’t available on the market. Even if he were to garner a return for multiple players or draft picks, they won’t add up to Marleau’s overall impact on the team, or won’t contribute to the team immediately while the Sharks are in win-now mode.

Oh, and Marleau is getting paid $6.3M because he can score around 70-80 points every year (07-08 was an aberration), and he can be responsible in his own end. I mean, Pavel Datsyuk is being pad $6.7M per year, and his own playoffs stats are less than impressive – he only has .64 PPG in the playoffs, compared to Marleau’s .67. True, Datsyuk is a better player in the regular season, which accounts for his $400K more, but I don’t think Marleau’s contract is too off-base.

And yes, I just compared Marleau to Datsyuk. In my defense, he was the only two-way forward that had a similar skill set to Marleau and underperformed in the playoffs that I could think of.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never once

… have I tried to deny Marleau’s defensive abilities. I know how good of a 2-way player he can be However, I still question his overall effectiveness as a scorer on a team where he’s slotted as the primary goal-scorer and still has yet to score 40 goals once in 11 seasons.

I’m making an argument that for as good as he can be and at times has shown, his performance drastically drop off in the playoffs when the games matter most – even if the overall stats are impressive in comparison to others. Good stats are great if they are accrued in pivotal games and series, but as I’ve shown, every series the Sharks have been eliminated in (all of them going 6 games and only one past the 2nd round), he’s been offensively invisible. Furthermore, him being chosen as the captain in 2004 does not reflect the team he leads in 2009 because almost none of the current Sharks were on that roster. Longevity can reflect complacency as much as it reflects quality.

Trading a cornerstone player is something that happens, it’s not blowing up the team because the Sharks without Marleau are still greatly skilled and we absolutely would get a good return for him. I still don’t see where you’re coming from in this argument we won’t get a good return or players that can impact the team now. Why can’t we get good players in return that can affect the team now, and why can’t we get players that add up to Marleau’s abilities? If he’s in the prime of his career as you claim, that should return more then enough.

We can go round and round about this, but you still haven’t shown me anything to believe that trading Marleau would kill the Sharks team – if anything it’d be a wake up call to the rest of the underperformers that no one is untouchable and that if you wanna be a Sharks, then winning a title is the only objective.

I’ll leave my opinion where as is and respect yours, though.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure i agree

with the notion that he is supposed to be our top goal scorer. Wasn’t he supposed to be our second-line center until this year?

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last season yes

But that was as much because of Thornton’s presence on the team then as Patty’s abilities. This year I absolutely believe he was expected to be our top goal-scorer. He was moved to the wing (which tends to be the role of a goal-scorer more then a play-maker) and put the top line to benefit from Thornton’s play-making. If he’s not suppose to be our top goal-scoring threat, then who is?

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 2:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he WAS our top goal scoring threat this season. 38 goals is 7 more than anyone else on the team in 5 fewer games. And who could have been certain that Seto would become an instant 30+ goal scorer?

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally respect your opinion – I may not agree with it, as Patty is probably my second favorite player (first being Mitchell, third being Pavelski), but you do bring up some good points.

However, despite Marleau not stepping it up in some series – isn’t it on the supporting cast to do the same? Look at Pittsburgh; Crosby was all but shut down in the SCF, and so all the role players (and Malkin) stepped up their games and won the series. The Sharks haven’t done the same for Marleau, and that’s what I’m looking at. We need more “superstars” like Talbot, lol (lame car dealership commercial reference ftw).

And then my argument for Marleau not getting an equal return – he’s on the last year of his contract, and so would be considered a “rental player” by most teams. No team is going to give up that good of players for a guy that might be on the team for only one year, and any team that will is stupid to. The Sharks are the only team that are assured of him re-signing with them, and all other teams have to take their chances with a guy who has never been in another organization before. He is a good player, and GMs do recognize that, but the single year remaining on his contract will decrease his value.

Oh, and the fact that he has a NTC and loves it in San Jose makes him somewhat hard to move.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And as far as Datsyuk is concerned

I don’t understand how comparing one playoff under-performer with another is somehow justification. Datsyuk has developed into a fantastic player, but he wasn’t drafted and groomed to be the face of the franchise the same way Marleau has been and isn’t the captain of the team. Datsyuk has also had some very good playoff years, including last year when he managed over a point a game in helping win his team a Cup. Furthermore, Datsyuk is more of a playmaker then a sniper, where Marleau is suppose to be our major goal scoring threat.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess the best way I can summarize my opinion

is that I CAN win it all with Patrick Marleau on the roster, but we the Sharks don’t NEED Patrick Marleau to win and that as good as he is, he’s not a dynamic player that can’t have the strengths he brings to the table replaced while maintaining a reasonable and realistic roster. If the Sharks can and do win with Patty, great, but I don’t think our success hinges nearly as much on him as some of you do.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marleau’s far from untouchable- get a goal scorer like Heatley in return and I’m in agreement. However, I don’t think that’s going to happen, and don’t think the Sharks will get an equal return back for number 12.

Would be happy to be proven wrong. That’s all I’m saying.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cap Space

Another factor that needs to be considered is the possibility the ceiling falls in the next couple years- keeping things manageable now sets the stage for competing later.

It’s a huge factor for the organization, and a big reason why we’ve been shoving it down your throats this entire summer.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

besides,

I’m not sure you can argue that the Sharks have been losing directly as a result of their stingy/frugal money management. This year they showed a willingness to spend to the Cap and while it seemed to help the team, it still didn’t guarantee a Finals appearance.

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

his defensive abilities is what's key for me

his all around skill set has been really beneficial to the team, even in the playoffs this year. The Nabby stuff I can get behind, but not the Marleau stuff

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don’t see how trading away our best player of last season improves the team, except potentially in the long run. But is the organization aiming for the long run? Probably not till next season

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then pay him life a defensive forward

and not a sniper…

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Define really beneficial

His +/- the last five playoff years: 0 (08-09), -2 (07-08), -5 (06-07), 2 (05-06), 0 (03-04) – hardly amazing defensive numbers. If they handed out Stanley Cups after the first 82 games I’d be all for keeping him, but they don’t and he hasn’t been nearly as good as some of you think.

As good as he is defensively, he’s expected to be a top-line scoring winger/center and he hasn’t been that in any one playoff year in his career.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

good point

but I don’t necessarily put that much stock in +/- as the defining statistic in this case. This year pretty much the whole team was on the minus end. I’d have to look at some stats I guess but in my mind he was beneficial in that he led all forwards in SH TOI all season and playoffs, as well as holding Getzlaf in check the games when he was assigned to, and also I guess just my opinion from observing the play throughout the season. Who did you think was the best player on the team last year?

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not great

but it’s still an indicator of accomplishment or lack of.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We might as well hang the entire team if we're only focusing on playoff preformances

flogging the poor dead horse some more:

Patty provides us with far more than any of his negatives take away. He IS the team, the players are behind him, and as long as they see a reason to stand by him, I do too.

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 23, 2009 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Marleau IS the team...

(first off, he’s not THE team at all) then that alone should be enough to consider trading him cause this team underachieves year in and year out. I agree that the Sharks as a team haven’t performed very well in the playoffs overall, but that directly reflects leadership (or lack there of) – especially when you consider how drastically the team drops off in the playoffs after doing well in the regular season. I think saying ‘the team is beyond him’ is very much a cop out answer cause we don’t really know that and the players aren’t going to come out and crucify Patty because it’s not professional and, if nothing else, he’s a nice guy.

I’m not trying to harp on Marleau cause I’ve been a fan of his for a long time. However, I’m a bigger for of the San Jose Sharks then Patrick Marleau and after 5 years of Marleau as captain am left with nothing but disappointment and question marks. I just feel like I can only watch this team with teal-blinders for so long before having to come to some honest conclusions.

Y’all are obviously entitled to your opinions, and I respect them because they come from dedication and intelligence. I hope my views don’t sour everyone’s opinions of me.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m going to assume you meant “team is behind him” because I typo a lot and it seems like what I would mean in that sort of situation. So I am going to attack it that way. If I am wrong on my guess, do let me know. :)

I don’t see it as a cop-out because I, as a fan sitting at home, have NO IDEA what is going on inside the locker room. I realize they won’t bad mouth him in public, but honestly, given all the crap that came out about him and RW last season, disgruntled rumblings from the team would have leaked out by now, if they found his abilities questionable. They haven’t. There is no way on earth in this modern intertubbed era that questions about his abilities wouldn’t have found their way out into the light. These guys may be professional, but they’re also human and I guarantee you they talk.

I advocated RW bench Patty one or two post seasons ago as an example to the team; no one was safe, everyone was accountable. Believe me it wasn’t a popular idea. So I’m not inclined to just back him because I like my koolaid in an unnatural shade of blue.

I respect your opinion on the matter, I just firmly disagree.

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 23, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

First Round Value

I’m not sure this really says much about anything, but here’s a piece Scott Cullen did on the value of first rounders over the course of the last 30 drafts.

I wouldn’t take too much stock into the fact that the 27th pick yields better players than the 15th pick (the 15th is obviously worth more, even with the 15th’s history of busts), but what is interesting is that past the 5th overall pick Cullen’s metric says the player won’t be a top 9 guy; on the same token, once you hit the 12th pick it’s probable he will be a fringe NHL player.

Again, I don’t know how much this really predicts much of anything considering all the factors involved (different scouts, teams, strength of classes, drafting based on organizational need etc.), but it’s late and I’m in a linky kinda mood.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 2:48 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

BTW, there’s no link in your post.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

BOOM.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 23, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m in a linky kinda mood….

BTW, there’s no link in your post.

A day later and it’s still pretty funny.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 24, 2009 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So what positions do the Sharks look to draft for?

We’ve drafted a lot of mid-round d-men recently, but only Petrecki looks to be an NHL certainty. At forward, we have Couture (center) and McGinn (left wing), but after that we have lots of maybes, but really no other players to truly expect to be in the NHL. We signed some interesting free agent prospects in Mashinter and Henderson, but that doesn’t mean we’re set there. Do we draft forward heavy with our 2nd rounders (if we still have em), or tried to spread the wealth and go with perhaps a winger and a d-man? Obviously we don’t need any more top-end goaltending prospects at this point.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 2:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d be nice to spread the wealth, if we have the opportunity.

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 23, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They could just draft whatever the best there is at any position at the draft spot they have.

That’s just my idea. I have no idea how to draft players…

by idunno723 on Jun 23, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That works in the first round, when players are more likely to play in the NHL, but as you go later in the draft, teams have to start looking for guys that would fit the team and shore up positions where the team is depleted at (top 6 wingers and defensemen for the Sharks). Teams look at how players play, and what their coaches and teammates think of them. Teams look for things like work ethic, and whether or not the deficiencies in the player’s game can be fixed (the Sharks are firm believers that skating can be improved – hence the drafting of Couture, Pavelski, and Murray). There are also the times when a team finds a great player that has been overlooked by everyone else – like Lidstrom with the Wings, and (to a lesser extent) Vlasic with the Sharks.

And then of course, some teams are known for drafting certain types of players. Red Wings draft Swedes. Brian Burke likes tough guys. Sharks like goalies, Germans, and anyone who plays for the Ottawa 67s.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So

when will the Sharks hit the jackpot with a German goaltender who plays on the Ottawa 67’s?

by idunno723 on Jun 23, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, I know there’s an Ottawa 67s goalie available, and a German goalie available, but not all three.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would laugh long and hard if there was ever a German Ottawa 67 goalie available. I’d laugh even harder if DW drafted him.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think the 67's connection is bound to weaken

since their coach retired. Possibly a good thing in my mind – we may use them as a resource to a fault

by a10dency2ask on Jun 23, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t even care if he was a third-string goalie. First round draft pick now!
(er.. first round draft pick next year!)

by idunno723 on Jun 23, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder...

will every thread this season turn into a decision on whether or not to trade Patty?

LOLZ :D!!!

Fear the Fin: Where we just have to want it more!

by That'll Cheech You on Jun 23, 2009 4:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

seriously

this post was originally more about Cheechoo, Ehrhoff, and Michalek

by Brian5517209 on Jun 23, 2009 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Until July 1st (or 2nd ish)

it seems likely :D

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 23, 2009 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or draft day

At least, whenever the second round is (I believe it might be Friday, but I’m not sure). Then we get to talk about prospects we have little to no idea who they are!

I, for one, am glad that we actually have picks before the fourth round this year.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry guys

I just saw the graphics and felt compelled to argue my case. I <3 y’all and absolutely adore this space because we can be true about our feelings for the boys in teal in a supportive, yet honest manner.

Oh, so that's where you edit your signature

by Teas on Jun 23, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't need to be sorry!

I appreciate all of the different opinions around here. It gives different perspective.

Oh and I ♥ you all too…

(Wow look at all these cool symbols: ♠, ♣,♦, ♬!)

by idunno723 on Jun 23, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha, I less than three you too ;)

And really, those graphics were just in response to those who keep insisting that Marleau never shows up for the playoffs at all, and that he’s worse than useless. And because I haven’t used photoshop in a while.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Jun 23, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs


“Never apologize for showing feeling. When you do so, you apologize for the truth.”

Learned a lot from your comments and definitely see where you’re coming from- no need to apologize for eloquently laying out exactly what you feel should be done this offseason.

I would say FTF was founded on such debate, but we probably stem from dick jokes more than anything else. Continue to “Teas bag” Marleau if you are so inclined*.

*Ah yes, there’s the dick joke- told you it was just around the corner.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Jun 24, 2009 2:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What...

So we can’t bring this argument into the “Where should I watch Shark games” threads?

by idunno723 on Jun 23, 2009 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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