ESPN/SUN Media: Senators reject Sharks' proposal for Heatley
"The Senators rejected a deal that could've rid them of disgruntled Dany Heatley. San Jose offered Jonathan Cheechoo and Christian Erhoff as part of a trade, but Sens GM Bryan Murray wanted none of that, Sun Media reports"
Cap concerns aside, that would have been a coup for the Sharks. The more and more I hear about the Heatley deal, the more I think it gets done. Pure speculation, but I'm assuming if Wilson were to replace Cheechoo with Michalek, we'd be seeing the "Drop Dead, Diva" in Teal.
about 1 year ago
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if we trade Michalek instead of Cheechoo we will have more cap space that will allow us to fill the team out
but then again, that would still be a major steal by DW
im not sure if I’m the Sens that i make that tradw tihout more in return
Well, Ottawa is kinda stuck, since Heatley doesn’t want to go to Edmonton. Perhaps a pick or two needs to be thrown back as part of any deal.
If the Sharks can spin a Cheechoo trade first, I think they’d be willing to give up more in the pick department to Edmonton.
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correction...
give up more in the pick department to Edmonton. Ottawa.
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i think
Michalek, Ehrhoff, and a high draft pick would be a fair trade
by Brian5517209 on Jul 28, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
If we give up more high draft picks, fan will go nuts!
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
we will?
not a 1st rounder, maybe a 2 or 3 and I’s be fine with that
we’d be getting a legit 90 point person
a line of him, Marleau, and Thonton would be amazing
by Brian5517209 on Jul 28, 2009 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
assuming we could keep him AND Marleau
Based on how the reaction has been to picks going bye-bye in recent seasons, I don’t expect that another one going the way of the dodo will be popular. I know that first round picks tend to generate more ire than 2nd or 3rd, but I’m just guessing it will rile a few people up.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
Plus, the Sharks only have 4 picks the next draft. Granted, we’re in a little better position than this year since they’re all in the first three rounds (one 1st, two 2nds, and a 3rd), but the Sharks aren’t in any position to be dealing any picks.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
i would prefer keeping those 3 things
to having heatley
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
i think it was the other way around
the team struck up a deal with edm and heatley vetoed it
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, Heatley was the one who said no
What happened was that Heatley has a list of teams that he would potentially allow a trade to. Edmonton was on the list. So Murray arranged a trade with the Oilers for Penner, Cogliano, and Smid, but then Heatley nixed the trade. Its one of the many reasons why I don’t want him on the Sharks.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I’m thinking that offer was a kind of Thorntonesque offer – offering a package that in no way should be able to get that player, just to see if Murray is that desperate and would be foolish enough to agree to that trade. If he accepts, Wilson has another steal on his hands. If he doesn’t, oh well. Doesn’t really matter. But, for the record, I still don’t want Heatley.
Oh, and I had this dream last night where there was this booby-trapped haunted house I had to inspect and I kept finding these dead, mangled bodies. There was also some sort of curse. The worst part? I also dreamt that Marleau was traded, and my subconscious procured a image of him in a Habs uniform. It was horrible.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
i really don't want this trade to happen
I think DW must be upset that all these specifics are coming about about what trades he is offering
I don’t see how this trade has any legs. If we ignore the value of the talent being moved, it still leaves Ottawa with 8 defensemen, according to CapGeek while not giving the Sharks take on MORE salary and don’t gain an extra forward. If that trade goes through, I don’t know how we could keep Marleau, and I don’t think DW wants to lose him. This had to be a testing of the waters.
Jon Casey fan since '84
I think I’ve come to accept that everything surrounding Heatley makes no sense. I’m no longer going to do any pre-analysis of any deal involving him, because it’s never going to work in my head.
I’ll just take what happens in stride, and bitch about it after.
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Haha
I’ll just take what happens in stride, and bitch about it after.
I’m not sure it’s rational, but it sure is common.
Jon Casey fan since '84
I do what I gotta do. I’m currently preparing myself for either scenario… because like it or not, we might end up with him.
Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!
So,
Which one means we’ll need to hide any and all sharp objects from you?
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jul 28, 2009 3:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I still don't want Heatly on the Sharks
but I am happy to have some team news to talk about
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
no thanks
As much as I don’t like errorhoff and cheech (6.1 mil combined), I’d rather have both of them than have heatley (7.5 mil cap hit). Not only would we have to pay 1.4 mil more, we would have another player void to fill. The deal just doesn’t make sense to me, even if they threw in milan instead of cheech. I understand we need changes, but still…come on
It's unfair to say that this goes through with Michalek
His contact is fair in my eyes. He’s signed for several more years sub-$5M and he’s got lots of upside. I’m just glad we got Bernier away from him – I feel he was a bad influence on work habits.
Jon Casey fan since '84
The report from the Sun was by “Malkin to the Kings,” as Wysh loves to put it.
This makes me think the validity of the report is in doubt.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
it IS garrioch
I’m always wary of him, but I don’t doubt that the Sharks have their eyes on Heatly
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
Slightly OT, but a recent tweet from Eklund:
Source, “Down to Red Sox and Phillies for Halladay. Sox put up mega offer, but Jays are saying it is bigger deal than it really is”HEATLEY FOR HALLADAY (e5)!!!
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Well, its Eklund, so we know that there’s a 97% chance that he’s NOT going to either of those teams.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Just Make A Move!!!
Wilson I think just needs to make a move to help the cap and improve the team. I would like Heatly on the team but the trade with CHI for Sharp seems to have more of a chance going down.
I would also prefer Sharp in Teal, based on cap hits and whininess
What would be fair for Sharp, though? Ehrhoff straight up? Cheechoo and Lukowich? Murray and a pick? But wait, why does Chicago want another defensemen, either?
Jon Casey fan since '84
If CHI is going to move Sharp it a) is going to cost a heckuva lot more than what you’ve proposed, and b) isn’t going to take a lot of salary back the other way. The only reason they would consider moving Sharp is because they need cap space. Taking Cheechoo or Erhoff eats most of the cap space they save with Sharp, and neither player is as good as Sharp. It will probably require a package of high picks/top prospects/cheap roster players. Regardless, if CHI can get under the cap with Sharp on the roster then they probably won’t trade him this season because it makes no sense. They can play the full year with him, then trade him before July 1 next year when they really need the cap space to sign their young studs. Sharp gives them a better chance to win this year so there is no reason to move him until they absolutely have to.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 28, 2009 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel you’re overvaluing Sharp a bit. He put up about 0.75 ppg the last two years, but he was only a plus 6 on a juggernaut scoring team last year. Wasn’t he only a 2nd line player in Chicago?
Jon Casey fan since '84
Second line behind Toews and Kane, and because Havlat needed a guy that could center him, not exactly shameful. He can play all three F positions and both special teams. He is good in all zones so he’s not going to hurt you. 3 more years at 3.9 is a real good contract for a guy that can provide that.
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 29, 2009 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Accountability
This may have been mentioned already, but I think the entire organization should tell the team that they owe us, the fans, a return trip to the playoffs and ride it through to the Finals to make up for the 2009 epic fail. Make no big-name trades, instead keep the bulk of the team as is. But dammit! I am pissed. The team we have IS capable and has to stop with the “Leeroy Jenkins” maneuver come playoffs. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkCNJRfSZBU ). No to Heatley.
Heatley might not be worth it
Like the article says, the sharks would likely still have to move Marleau to make room for Heatley
Heatley is a great player… when he wants to be. Who knows what could set him off down the line when he arrives in San Jose. Are the cap clearing moves we’d have to make to get him worth taking a chance on him?
I’m not really in favor of getting rid of the depth that they would have to move to acquire him
by Mathmatiks on Jul 28, 2009 7:40 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
OT
But is it Oct yet? (sighs)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
by ang6666 on Jul 28, 2009 8:32 PM PDT reply actions
September's fine with me.
Preseason hockey’s still hockey.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
NIEDKLERYARYER
oer sometoethin lie kthat!!!! -Mr. K
by Lurker Shark on Jul 28, 2009 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Ill take the other side
I think Heatly in SJ would be great. And I don’t think San Jose would have to move Marleau to make it happen. I’m sure Cheechoo could be moved for a 3rd or 4th rounder to NYI or ATL. NY would be an interesting move, as it gives them a (former?) sniper to play with Tavaras and Okposo.
If Michalek and Ehrhoff go the other way with a 1st rounder (I’ve said this before, late first rounders are heavily overrated assets), the Sharks should have the space to absorb Heatley. Then your lineup looks something like:
Heatley – Thornton – Setoguchi
Marleau – Pavelski – Clowe
Mitchell – (some rookie that makes an impression?) – McGinn
Shelly – Nichol – Staubitz
Boyle – Luko
Blake – Vlasic
Murray – Huskins
That team is better than the one the Sharks currently have (which, if people forget, was quite good). That second line is not only the best second line in the NHL, but is probably the second best two-way line in the NHL behind Pavel Datsyuk and whomever his two wingers are. That first line… just…wow. The best passer in the game along with a top 5 goalscorer AND one of the top young goal scorers in the game? I’m not a fan of grinder lines, but that 4th line has its virtue.
And I’m totally eyeballing this, but you probably got a million or two for that last spot with Ehrhoff, Cheechoo, and Michalek gone, even with Heatly in the fold and signing Mitchell.
I just put that roster in a cap generator. And with giving Mitchell and Greiss slight raises to $750K and bringing Staubitz up to the NHL minimum $500K, as well as plugging in any random player for the minimum $500K, the Sharks are over the cap by $87K. Granted, they technically have around $650K in space due to the bonus cushion, but any bonuses that go over the cap will be added onto next year’s cap hit, which the Sharks probably want to avoid.
Not to mention that roster does not have a 7th defenseman or any healthy scratch forwards, which will pose a problem whenever someone gets hurt, which has a 100% chance of happening.
And then of course, the implications for next year with the falling cap and the multi-million dollar raises due to Pavelski and Setoguchi also scares me.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
am i the only one
who prefers to keep ehrhoff and michalek ? I really think our mid-level talent is important, especially when the rebuild comes soon in the future.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd prefer to as well
but the odds of both of them staying don’t seem good at this point. Who knows though?
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
i just don't see how getting heatley
solves any of the problems we had last season. Can someone explain that? It makes our first line – already the statistically best first line in hockey(?) – better, while making our lower lines and depth (maybe THE playoff problem) a lot thinner. Wha?
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't
at least, not in my opinion. I think he has the potential to add new problems, as well, which I’m not so keen on. Does he have the ability to be fantastic? Yes. But I worry about his attitude. Attitude effects performance.
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
Me too
Wasn’t keen on him solely because of cap problems, and with this whole trade demand thing going down, let’s just say its not helping his case.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I would also like to keep Michalek
Ehrhoff, I could part with. Christian is a good bargaining chip, and we’ve already got Boyle locked up for a while longer. If I’m not mistaken, Huskins is supposed to be a puck-mover, offensive-type defenseman, as well, and he’s here for two years minimum. It’s just that I think this is a bad year to be deep in d-men – it seems that every team has more than they know what to do with. Look at Toronto, they practically gave away one their prospects because he would have been #10 on the depth chart.
Maybe they are 2nd line/pairing, but some assets are easier to find than others.
Jon Casey fan since '84
I guess my fear is
we trade Ehrhoff and he finally realizes where the net is
resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"
i’m going to continue citing Ehrhoff’s team-best PP stats on behindthenet and his outplaying of Vlasic in the all-important playoffs 2 years in a row as a reason I’m in the “keep him” camp
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions
that said
chances are low that he will be kept
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.behindthenet.ca/2008/5_on_4.php?sort=23&mingp=&mintoi=&team=S.J&pos=D
disregard Semenov, these stats shows the averaged numbers of the goals for per every 60 minutes each defender was on the ice 5 v 4. What it shows is that Ehrhoff outperformed Blake and the rest on the PP, by a pretty fair margin. Apparently he was able to get the PP going when the 1st group was getting stale.
The playoff performance is just observation. But it seems to me that Vlasic has been pretty mediocre at best the last 2 playoff runs, whereas Ehrhoff has stepped it up.
Bottom line for me is that, while he is VERY inconsistent, the team is visibly much better when he is playing well. And in my book, he seems to often play well at important times. Sorry I can’t be more convincing, maybe I’ll do some more research about this
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm fine with Ehrhoff leaving
But Cheechoo….my ex-baby daddy… Ugh.- I mean as a hockey fan, I understand but as a girl… DW better get some more cute players!
hopefully you’ll see more of torrey this year
by a10dency2ask on Jul 28, 2009 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d prefer it, but just dealing Cheechoo and Lukowich might not give the Sharks enough cap space to work with if they want better depth in the lower lines or want call-ups that have cap hits higher than the NHL minimum (i.e. Couture, Petrecki). If there had to be other player(s) dealt, Michalek and Ehrhoff are my first two picks, because they have multi-million dollar contracts and will bring a good return.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Who knows
maybe the laid-back, sunny California environment might chill Heater out a bit. If I remember correctly, wasn’t JR pegged as a problem player earlier in his career? Always running his mouth and causing friction in the locker room? I know it was probably age/maturity more than a move to San Jose, but I’m sure being on a team that was dedicated to winning and not dicking around had something to do with it. I think Heatley is a great player if you set aside his problems. Perhaps a change of scenery (out of Canada where he can play relatively anonymously) might do him well. If we can offload some salary and manage to pick him up (while keeping Patty), I’d be for getting him. I think it boils down to the fact that he’s a great player who would help the team.
I’ll get down off of my soapbox now.
my question remains
how exactly would he help the team? seems to me the depth we would lose to get him would exacerbate the team’s playoff problems
by a10dency2ask on Jul 29, 2009 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
how about a 270 point line in Marleau-Thronton-Heatley?
by Brian5517209 on Jul 29, 2009 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
The 2nd line would remain
one of the best in the league with Patty – Pavelski – Clowe. The third line as someone described above (Mitchell – someone – McGinn) would also be solid, if a little untested, and the fourth line would be a fourth line, i.e. out there in limited situations with limited time, and given the fourth line guys we have would also be an okay line.
Regardless of whether or not we have Heatley, the depth that we have beyond the first two lines is going to be coming from Worcester or another team’s equivalent. I think depth is going to be a problem for us with the cap situation unless we unload a lot of salary (Milan, Cheech, Erhoff and/or Lukowich) and are able to get equivalents at lower costs. All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t mind seeing Heatley on the team, though I understand the implications in terms of personnel that his presence would have.
by Chicago Shark on Jul 29, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait
Do you have Patrick Marleau playing left wing on the first and second line? Assuming that is just a typo, you think we can get Heatley for Michalek, Cheechoo, and a defenseman?
Jon Casey fan since '84
Seto isn’t on that list, and most people have him playing on one of the top two lines. Regardless, is it a problem that Marleau is playing out of position on whatever line he’s on? IIRC both Heatley and Clowe are left wings, and Marleau played center/left wing last year.
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
I assumed it was a given
that Seto would be on the first line.
by Chicago Shark on Jul 29, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll just reply with mymclife’s comment and pretend it’s me:
I just put that roster in a cap generator. And with giving Mitchell and Greiss slight raises to $750K and bringing Staubitz up to the NHL minimum $500K, as well as plugging in any random player for the minimum $500K, the Sharks are over the cap by $87K. Granted, they technically have around $650K in space due to the bonus cushion, but any bonuses that go over the cap will be added onto next year’s cap hit, which the Sharks probably want to avoid.
Not to mention that roster does not have a 7th defenseman or any healthy scratch forwards, which will pose a problem whenever someone gets hurt, which has a 100% chance of happening.
And then of course, the implications for next year with the falling cap and the multi-million dollar raises due to Pavelski and Setoguchi also scares me.
I'm well aware of the salary cap implications
both for this year and potentially next year. All I was (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to convey was I think Heatley would have been a good addition to the Sharks IF it would have worked out. People have a funny way of ignoring attitude and behavior problems of the players on their teams (see Bonds, Barry; Ramirez, Manny; and Pronger, Chris), and I would bet that the same thing would happen if Heatley made his way to the Sharks.
I should have qualified my previous comments with the caveat that I am in no way a hockey expert, or remotely qualified to make educated roster decisions. As a fan, I would have liked to see Mr. Heatley in teal next season. I wouldn’t mind Patrick Sharp either.
by Chicago Shark on Jul 29, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
idunno723 has it right
the problem with the team last season was not the top lines, which we rode to record breaking and president’s trophy glory, but rather the lower lines, which weren’t able to contribute come the playoffs. Sure it’s a nice “fantasy hockey” type combo, but that doesn’t mean it fixes anything that was wrong with the team last year – i’d say it makes it worse.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 29, 2009 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree…. The reason why the first line didn’t produce was because of the match up game that the ducks played. For whatever reason the 2nd line which carried the team so nicely in the regular season was invisible
facing a team like the ducks meant having to look for scoring from every line. People keep talking about getting heatley or kessel but it means moving a lot of the depth we have out. So our first line still looks good but the rest would be patch work.
Make trades or moves to boulster the lines behind the top line and you’ve improved the team immensly
by Mathmatiks on Jul 31, 2009 8:02 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
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