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Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Edwin Jackson to the White Sox, DC next?

Heatley Finds A Home

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H/T to ivano27 for the image

[Sunday Editor's Note]: As most of you know I'm currently in Minnesota and dealing with spotty internet time, which led to a rushed piece yesterday. You'll find correction of grammatical mistakes, different wording in areas I wasn't happy with, as well as an expansion of ideas today (i.e. some new sections). Think of it as a second edition to a novel- the hardcore fans will probably pick it up, while the casual fans (or those who didn't like the first edition) probably will refrain.

TCY covered a lot of good points on the trade here- essentially DW has given up relatively little talent in comparison to what he got back (and shedding some of the bigger salaries on the team in the process). On Thornton's wing Heatley is a potential 60 goal scorer, with Big Joe himself poised to crack 100 points next season. Hell, he may even end up shattering that mark. It may be a little premature to call it now, but it's not out of the question to expect that San Jose will have two guys that will be front-runners for the Rocket Richard and Art Ross. In and of itself, that's unbelievable.

Since it's a given the on-ice team will probably be better than they were last season, let's take a look at the future of the franchise, some concerns about Heatley,  as well as some line combinations for next season. Granted this may not be the most exciting topic of conversation on a day like today (OMG playoffs!!!!1!), but it's an important note to make- San Jose is going to have some big cap decisions next offseason with DW essentially rolling the dice and going all in. It's not a bad strategy, and certainly one that can be justified considering the lack of postseason success since the lockout, but it does come with consequences*.

*On a side note- I have been pretty consistent with my non Heatley stance because of this, but holy hell am I pumped for October. San Jose just may be the first back to back Presidents Trophy winners since the Detroit Red Wings.

Star-divide

First off, San Jose has now 58.16% of their salary cap space committed to five players- Heatley, Thornton, Boyle, Marleau, and Nabokov. In the long term that's not going to be an issue considering Nabokov and Marleau are hitting free agency next season, but expecting both of these guys to re-sign in 2010 is a long shot- Dan Boyle, Joe Thornton, and Dany Heatley will account for 37.6% of the team's salary. The general consensus around here has been to let Nabokov walk considering his age, declining play, and expected contract, and I'm definitely on board with that. He will be 35 and likely looking at a 3-4 year deal- a non starter for me, and most likely Doug Wilson as well (more on that below). The question going forward into the next decade is going to be goaltending- not an issue this season considering Nabokov is in a contract year and that generally means an above average performance, but after that there isn't a clear cut heir to the throne. Thomas Greiss will have to prove he is able to win games in a backup role this season*, or another prospect (Sexsmith, Karlsson, Stalock) will have to excel this year and make a bid for a starting role next season. There's not going to be a lot of money around next year to afford a premier goaltender in his prime.

*I would like to see Greiss get more starts down the stretch this year compared to Boucher for this reason. Nabby dealt with some lower body injuries during pockets of last season, and his increasing age makes him more susceptible to that. I wouldn't mind somewhere in the GS range of 58-24 between the pipes. It's a damn near lock San Jose makes the playoffs, and testing out the pipeline can only improve Wilson's decision making in the future.

As for pending UFA's/RFA's, here's the current list set to hit the market in 2010. Keep in mind that the cap is predicted to drop next season, with most estimates pegging it around the 2 million dollar range. However, we will be working with the numbers under the expectation it will remain $56.8 M due to the uncertainty of the predictions. That being said, if it does follow the general consensus and take a fall, you're going to see a lot of hand wringing one year from now.

2010 Free Agency

Player/Team Salary Status Pos.
San Jose Sharks $36.33 - -
- - - -
Joe Pavelski $1.63 RFA F
Devin Setoguchi $1.24 RFA F
Patrick Marleau
$6.30 UFA F
Jody Shelley $.725 UFA F
Jed Ortmeyer $.550 UFA F
Brad Staubitz $.500 RFA F
Rob Blake $4.00 UFA D
Derek Joslin
$.516 RFA D
Evgeni Nabokov
$5.37 UFA G
Scott Nichol $.750 UFA F

 

What Wilson will be working with next offseason is approximately $21.36 in cap space, with 11 players needing to come under contract- eight forwards, two defenseman, and one goaltender. Some notes:

  • It's safe to assume Pavelski and Setoguchi will account for at least $7.5 M in salary between the two. On the open market they would probably get more, but I'm projecting low and hoping that Wilson is able to keep them under contract because of their RFA status and a desire to stay in San Jose. There's no guarantee here however, and that number could obviously increase depending on a variety of things.
  • I had planned on writing a piece earlier this summer that was scrapped after the barrage of Marleau rumors, but what's the likelihood of DW channeling his inner Ken Holland and signing Patty to a long-term Johan Franzen type deal? If you want to keep him and field a competitive bottom line/pairings, that might be the way to go. If you extend him into the seven year range you're looking at roughly $4.0 M a year. That would go a long way, and if he continues or improves on his totals from last season (not hard to expect if he plays with Heatley/Thornton), I think you see Wilson consider doing so. IAmJoe of Sacrifice The Body left a comment explaining that it would probably take a 10-11 year deal in order to get him at the four million mark, also citing concerns about Patty's desire to stay in San Jose with everything that has occurred this offseason. We touched upon it here, and it's safe to say that Marleau may be feeling a bit disenfranchised after this offseason. For this exercise we'll put him around $6.0 M considering that is near market value.
  • As of now, San Jose has $7.86 M in cap space with five forwards, two defenseman, and one goaltender needing to be re-signed. The rest of the players left on the list above (besides Rob Blake who I'll touch upon briefly) probably won't command much more than their current salaries- their replacements will likely be in the same boat if DW decides to allow them to walk.
  • Rob Blake's age is decreasing, and it's no guarantee that he plays again next season- I'm not going to delve full bore into this until March or so (much like we did last year) in order to see how things shake out. The backend is going to be a question mark along with goaltending the next two seasons, but the kicker is that those are the two areas where San Jose is rich in the prospect pool. San Jose has always been known for their goaltending system, and the blueline also has some talent waiting in the wings (Petrecki, Demers, Moore). That's a facet of the deal that should be applauded- Wilson gained a high profile winger to "hide" the lack of depth in the forward prospect pool, while leaving the crease and blueline untouched. It gives him a lot of opportunity to explore multiple call up avenues in case a couple of these guys fail to pan out.

In summation, the deal at face value is wonderful- you drop two of the worst contracts on the team (Michalek* and Cheechoo) as well as a draft pick in order to pick up the pure goal scoring forward San Jose needed at the beginning of this offseason. There are some issues with the depth of the third and fourth lines, as well as the blueline, but that's a card DW was willing to play.

*Let me qualify that a bit- as I mentioned earlier, Michalek's contract wasn't God awful- he's in good company with players his age post lockout, and I think that is roughly market value for a guy who is going to score 25 goals a year. But in the context of San Jose's salary structure, yes he was one of the worst contracts on the team.

There's always a risk running a top heavy salary structured team (ironically, see the 06-07 Senators and their subsequent fall from grace). Is our team better on paper than it was last year? Yes, I think it is, especially the top two forward lines. But if the cap drops two million dollars next season and the vaunted goaltender pipeline of San Jose doesn't immediately produce (i.e. next year) a guy who can start sixty games a season, it's going to be a long and hard road winning hockey games.

*******

Anyways, since the future is a year away and I can't wait for October to finally roll around, let's take a look at the current lineup for San Jose as I see it. Contrary to popular opinion I'm actually spreading out our scoring touch a bit here and placing Marleau on the second line- Heatley and Big Joe will provide enough pucks in the net between them, and I've never been a big fan of having three same side shots (left handed in this case) on the same line.

Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi

Marleau-Pavelski-Clowe

McGinn-Mitchell-(training camp winner)

Shelley-Nichol-(training camp winner)

An issue with this might be Setoguchi's and Pavelski's upcoming contract negotiation's- pairing them with Marleau and Thornton respectively is bound to increase their totals and concurrently their pay raises. I don't care about that however, and I doubt McLellan does either. His job is to win hockey games, and my job is to get drunk and watch him do so. We've both got pretty sweet jobs.

Regardless of where this ends up (Clowe on the first line? Marleau? Oh my God the possibilities!) the top two lines are going to be flat out amazing. After that though you get into a situation where there's not too much depth. Mitchell is struggling with tendinitis, and although David Pollak of Working The Corners stressed, "No, don’t start any rumors about Mitchell," the fact that he took so long to come back last season and won't begin training camp with the rest of the veterans is a little concerning. His game is reliant on speed, and lower body injuries aren't doing him any help in that department. If he goes down you probably call up Couture, but Logan hasn't played a full season in the AHL- can he handle the rigors of the NHL right out of the gate? My point is that the Sharks are pretty top heavy in the scoring department, and that was a prevailing issue on the team during the postseason last year (and, as we saw all throughout the postseason, teams need scoring depth in order to make a long run). McGinn should provide some offense (and his career numbers indicate he may be poised for a 15-20 goal year), but if the injury bug hits like it did last season (especially with the big three*) the well may run a little dry- I don't think the blueline is going to be producing as much with Ehrhoff gone.

*The big three is seriously too funny. I remember DW implying back in 2007 that he wanted to model the organization off of Ottawa, and he actually did it, bringing in an ex-Sen to boot. If Patty plays on the top line we're going to have to come up with something better than the Pizza line, no matter how well it fits.

Speaking of the blueline, it will be interesting to see what the camp competition eventually spits out. I would prefer if Petrecki was able to see a full year of AHL competition because of the fact it puts off a big contract and allows him to get some seasoning, but if he's the clear cut front runner I'm all for giving him the sixth slot. I've said it before, but anyone who resembles Robyn Regehr is a great thing for San Jose.

There also remains a very important note to make- San Jose might not be salary cap compliant by the time the trade deadline comes around. The Sharks are still without a healthy scratch forward (a spot that will filled at training camp), which will put them near or at the ceiling. Here's an explanation of this situation from a previous piece:

 

1) What's the significance of a salary bonus in terms of a player's cap number? Is there a site that provides the relevant bonus information for a specific player?

The cap hit that you find on CapGeek is the maximum amount that player could take up under the cap. Bonuses are included. However, if a player fails to reach every bonus by the end of the season, only his base salary will count against the cap. This means that a team is able to exceed the cap by the combined total of all their players bonuses. The risk in doing so is that if the players do hit those bonuses (sending the team over the cap in the process), a large cap charge will be levied for the 2010-2011 season.

As for a site that provides the specifics of a player's performance bonuses (specifically entry level players), I have yet to find one.

Example: Jamie McGinn's base salary is $681,666. His contract specifies that $315,000 in performance bonuses are available to him this season. For the purpose of this exercise, let's assume $105,000 will be paid out for the following- scoring 20+ goals, playing 60+ games, and notching 30+ assists. At the end of the season he has 22 goals, 67 GP, and 24 assists. McGinn will therefore be worth $891,666 under the salary cap (base salary + hitting two performance bonuses).

-"Salary Cap Questions: The Story of The Summer, September 1st

Jamie McGinn, Devin Setoguchi, Rob Blake, and Nick Petrecki all have salary cap bonuses included in their contracts. James Mirtle notified me via email that entry level bonuses (McGinn, Setoguchi, Petrecki) are fairly easy to hit, making it all but a certainty that they will do so if they make the team. Your guess at the likelihood of Blake hitting his bonus is as good as mine considering the details of which are not public.

What does this mean? It's likely that San Jose will be forced to either a) leave McGinn and/or Petrecki in the minors during the majority of the season (a route I doubt management would take with McGinn) b) hope that the aforementioned players don't hit their bonuses (which, as mentioned before, is unlikely with entry-level players) or c) be forced into making another trade, with that trade likely coming at the deadline. If this occurs, there are two routes Wilson can take- a salary dump (Huskins, Murray) or a high profile player (Marleau, Clowe) that will get you back something decent in return. The fact of the matter is that San Jose will have to take back less net salary in a deal, and this will likely result in a downgrade at that specific position. His bargaining position will essentially be the same as it was when he moved Ehrhoff and Lukowich earlier this season.

DW is walking a tight rope here, and the hope is that it pays off.

As an aside, I'm very surprised at the lack of concern concerning Dany Heatley both in a salary cap and character standpoint. There is no doubt in my mind the Sharks received a world class goal scorer that should make them much better on the offensive side of the ice, but where is the concern about his defensive play? His multiple trade requests over the last five years? A $7.5 M cap hit? The impending salary cap issues, issues that will likely crop up this season? The subsequent lack of roster depth? These were all relevant to the vast majority of readers during the last three months, and suddenly, in one fell Doug Wilson swoop, they dissipate? If anything it is closer to home now, sleeping in our living room. Just because he is a San Jose Shark does not mean they are going away.

I make this trade every day of the week. It doesn't mean it comes without some major questions, as well as a bit of cautious optimism. Tempered enthusiasm is how I would describe my feelings, and I just don't see that now.

I did a week ago.

*******

Final take- the Heatley deal was, at face value, stellar. You shed some big salary and gain a potential 60 goal scorer. It makes San Jose top heavy in terms of salary structure, but that's an issue that is going to be highlighted down the road- this season you're going to see one helluva team take the ice. The future in net will hinge on strides made this season at the AHL level (or with Greiss). The bottom lines may be a problem in the scoring department, but the top two will be the class of the league- their efficiency will be the driving point to success. Power play production should be around the 25% range all season long, and probably the best in the NHL. Penalty kill lost a little bit of bite with Michalek on his way out, but Nichol, Mitchell, and another training camp competition winner should be able to make up for it.

Stanley Cup or bust bitches. Stanley Cup or bust.

 

Go Sharks.

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starting to look past giants now

starting to get pumped for the sharks

MeThinksSports, Giants, Sharks, and Randomosity

by serrapadre716 on Sep 12, 2009 3:54 PM PDT reply actions  

although

still haven’t given up on them though

MeThinksSports, Giants, Sharks, and Randomosity

by serrapadre716 on Sep 12, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have

I went to last night’s game and saw no sense of urgency from the Giants. None what so ever! I had a more enjoyable time trying to changing my 13 month old nephew’s diaper in the packed men’s restroom than I did watching this game! At leas he knew that if he didn’t get that diaper off, he’s sh!t would stink to high heaven and gave me all the necessary signs of urgency to get it done.

by 420Sharksfan on Sep 13, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

my link in my signature

click it, just click. sums up how i feel, and how you probably feel too. sharks season needs to start…like, now.

by serrapadre716 on Sep 13, 2009 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Oh c'mon!

Salary cap problems for next year already?! We just got over cap problems from this year! I already have enough headaches!

by idunno723 on Sep 12, 2009 3:59 PM PDT reply actions  

I think it’s an extremely relevant point to make- a large part of on ice success (sustained success at that) directly coincides with monetary decisions in the offseason.

I already have enough headaches!

Take an Advil or quite drinkin’. Actually, just take an Advil*.

*Fear The Fin: Where Product Placement Puts Food On The Table

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Stanley Cup or bust bitches. Stanley Cup or bust.

sounds like new york yankees expectations, except with “Stanley Cup” instead of “World Series”

MeThinksSports, Giants, Sharks, and Randomosity

by serrapadre716 on Sep 12, 2009 4:00 PM PDT reply actions  

San Jose just may be the first back to back Presidents Trophy winners since the Detroit Red Wings.

Didn’t I say our time for the dynasty is coming??

Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?

by ang6666 on Sep 12, 2009 4:19 PM PDT reply actions  

Flagged for bad karma!

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 12, 2009 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

hey!!!

Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?

by ang6666 on Sep 12, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah...

I learned my bad karma lesson last season….

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 12, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not the kind of dynasty we need

Cup. Not Trophy, not Division Champs, Cup.
Now the BoC is on

Oh my Goc!!!

by DownRUpLYB on Sep 12, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think that is what’s being implied.

Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?

by ang6666 on Sep 12, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought all of those gentlemen would be free agents in 2010, not 2011.

Otherwise, thanks for raining on this glorious day, Plank. I don’t think the deals are done yet, but they’ll be very minor.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 12, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Fixed- I wrote this in my brother’s dorm room while he and his friends were running around so there’s bound to be more errors.

Sorry for raining on the parade- I just thought that this could be a good point-counterpoint with TCY’s post below. Heatley definitely makes our team better in the short term, and I’m unbelievably excited for next year, but it does come with it’s consequences. Better to get this piece out of the way now so I can put all this salary cap crap out of the way immediately.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 12, 2009 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

What’s out of the way? We can’t field the team yet. Technically we’re over the cap in payroll, and that’s with Ortmeyer and without an injured Mitchell and a scratched forward and Demers and Joslin taking the #6 and #7 defenseman spots. We couldn’t even afford to bring up Petrecki (I think. My cap knowledge is spotty).

Boy, that paragraph is a mess. Let me try it another way. Ignore any specific line combos or pairings you don’t like.

Heatley – Thornton – Setoguchi
Marleau – Pavelski – Clowe
McGinn – Mitchell (-injured- hurt, need to call up a reserve) – Ortmeyer
Staubitz – Nichol – Shelley
no healthy scratch

Boyle – Blake
Vlasic – Huskins
Murray – Demers
Joslin as healthy scratch

Nabokov
Greiss

Capgeek.com says this is $57,349,163; that leaves a theoretical $690,837 in space, but I don’t see it, especially when the cap is set $56.8M.

I don’t see how DW can go into the season like this. Is there another move coming?

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 12, 2009 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Capgeek.com says this is $57,349,163; that leaves a theoretical $690,837 in space, but I don’t see it, especially when the cap is set $56.8M.

The “theoretical $690,837 in space” is discluding performance bonuses. I can’t find the specific bonuses for either Blake, Setoguchi, or McGinn, but if they are on pace to hit them by the end of the season (20 G for Setoguchi, 30 points for McGinn etc.) then San Jose will need to make a move at the deadline. I explained it here if you’re interested (it’s the first question). I’ve talked with Mirtle a lot about bonuses this summer, and entry level bonuses (Gooch, McGinn) are usually pretty easy to hit- I assume they do it.

As for $.690 M in space, that’s probably enough to sign a healthy scratch on the cheap. DW doesn’t have to make a move now, but if the aforementioned bonuses look like they’re going to be hit, he will have to make a move.

I’m actually going to update this on the main piece- a very good point stufflife, and I wasn’t even aware of it before you inspired me to look at the numbers. Usually CapGeek factors in the bonuses when dealing with cap space. This might be the first time I’ve looked at it without them listing it.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 12, 2009 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

From what I read (I forget where), McGinn would probably not hit his bonuses (would basically need to be playing top six minutes). I’m too lazy to check right now though, so don’t quote me on it.

by wraptor347 on Sep 13, 2009 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you find a link to that I would be very appreciative. My statement was based off of what James Mirtle told me is generally the case with entry level deals, but it’s possible that McGinn is in a different situation.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

SJ Easy is also over at HF Boards, where he and a few other posters run a refs review thread, which is pretty interesting throughout the year and during the playoffs.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Sep 14, 2009 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

So I guess I missed all the fun being stuck at work today.

This is fantastic. The season can’t start soon enough.

It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by Lurker Shark on Sep 12, 2009 4:38 PM PDT reply actions  

Aye aye skipper. Aye aye.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

If he moves Marleau, it’ll be because he doesn’t think he’s gonna sign him next year. That’s the only reason I see it happening.

Once again…just my opinion…But I’m usually right. Just ask my wife

F

Neener, neeener, neener

Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad, and the 2nd round can be bad on the heart

by Dave Valentine on Sep 12, 2009 4:39 PM PDT reply actions  

funny!

Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?

by ang6666 on Sep 12, 2009 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, link me to that- I’ve been in Minnesota for the last week and haven’t really been catching up on comments. Too much travel and therefore non-internet time.

Too bad you haven’t been around this offseason Dave. I could have used your Miss Cleo capabilities when planning vacation times.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 12, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually like the spread out lines

Fantastic point about Marleau, Thornton, and Heatley all being lefties. If Marleau is indeed stripped of the captaincy (i.e. he doesn’t “regain” it), then there will be less of an argument for putting him on the first line to begin with.

Jeez louis, our top two lines will be devestating if they look like that.

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 12, 2009 4:41 PM PDT reply actions  

HAHAHA!!!
An issue with this might be Setoguchi’s and Pavelski’s upcoming contract negotiation’s- pairing them with Marleau and Thornton respectively is bound to increase their totals and concurrently their pay raises. I don’t care about that however, and I doubt McLellan does either. His job is to win hockey games, and my job is to get drunk and watch him do so. We’ve both got pretty sweet jobs.

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 12, 2009 4:43 PM PDT reply actions  

OUR jobs, dude?

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 12, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sens Fan

Hey Sharkies

Dont get to excited, you have a great regular season guy in DH, but a man that goes horribly missing when the pressure and physical game begins in the Playoffs.

Enjoy.

by Eado on Sep 12, 2009 4:56 PM PDT reply actions  

22 points in twenty games sounds fine to me. Enjoy another year of missing the playoffs

by Walshimania on Sep 12, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Statistics tell me otherwise but I’ll be sure to keep that in mind.

Side Note: We need our own VanCityDan around here. That guy tore me a new one when I wrote Nucks Misconduct a piece on Ehrhoff.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 12, 2009 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

"Stats are for losers" - Hilarity ensues
Every once in awhile I put down my cowabunga surfboard after riding some gnarly waves and check out what’s shaking on that frozen ice stuff where people skate around with sticks and try to score the most baskets in four quarters.

Have played. Still do in fact. Born in Minnesota and grew up around it.

Just read it and if I had to score that round, I’d score it 10-9 in favor to FTF (with some nice backup from TCY and idunno). Great stuff.

Oh my Goc!!!

by DownRUpLYB on Sep 12, 2009 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think we have 1 or 2 good candidates

for that role already, Plank.

resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!" Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by CTGray on Sep 12, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sign me up for that role

After my back and forth with Sleek and Spade over on BoC about Corey Perry, I was even presented with a photoshop with my name on it (literally). Those guys argue like Chris Pronger plays defense: mean, a cheap shot here and there, and highly effective. After them, Im ready for anything!

Interestingly, the same things were said about advanced baseball metrics by the “Joe MOrgan” crowd, yet if you look at baseball teams now nearly every squad has adopted the use of those metrics today . My favorite saying I heard was from the guy who created Baseball Prospectus, Gary Huckaby. He said “I don’t understand why people have to choose between stats and scouts. Its like choosing between beer and tacos. Why not have both?!?”

Beer and tacos. Ill take both please.

by ruben398 on Sep 14, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, I commented on this yesterday

It’s funny how bitter some other fans are, and make a point to rag on Heatley for his lack of postseason scoring. Funny, it’s usually the same people who rag on Marleau for not showing up in the playoffs (Sharks fans know the truth on that, best postseason performer since the lockout, etc.). From sjsharks.com:

In three trips to the postseason, Heatley has posted 35 points (10-25=35) in 34 games. He appeared in the Stanley Cup Finals in 2006-07 and was tied for the postseason lead with 22 points (7-15=22).

If that’s missing in the postseason, I’d love to see what happens if he shows up.

by Chicago Shark on Sep 13, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Lucky for me,

my computer can access the future, and read articles. This article, written at 6:38 PM has quotes from Dany Heatley and Doug Wilson.

I think this is one of the most predictable quotes from DW:

"We are very pleased to have Dany be part of our team," said Wilson. "We let two very good players go the other way, but you have to give to get. He has a great skill set and can get 50 goals. When you have a player of this caliber, it only makes you better. This is a piece we were looking at for a while."

by idunno723 on Sep 12, 2009 5:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I think you nailed it. I can hear the exact same words coming from his mouth.

by Ivano M on Sep 12, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hey Plankdude,

check out my site. No I’m not trying to rig my viewcount…

by idunno723 on Sep 12, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions  

Nice thread you got going here. Just figured I’d pop in and keep you company ;)

Saw the picture on your page, but I’m not sure it’s a good idea. Semenov and his KGB comrades will be knocking on your front door within the hour.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Am I the only one...

…who wonders how the hell Heatley will actually get along with McLellan if he’s known for not hustling or moving his feet (thanks Cory Clouston for publicly stating that)? I anticipate many Drew Remenda rants about moving your feet through the neutral zone.

Maybe I’m just cynical but I’m not locking Heatley in for 50 goals just yet.

by Mike Chen on Sep 12, 2009 7:32 PM PDT reply actions  

I admit I don’t watch a lot of Senators games, but I watched Heatley highlights on Youtube and NHL.com for a at least an hour today.

Plenty of hustling goals, and those where he just flies past the defense on his own. A good amount of goals that were self-assisted as well when he’s going to score on his own rebound.

In other words, I’m not too concerned.

by Ivano M on Sep 12, 2009 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

The concern isn’t what Heatley does with the puck, it’s how he plays when he doesn’t have it, and that stuff isn’t going to be on youtube. You’ve got a serious selection bias going on. If his past coaches don’t like his hustle that means a lot more than highlight reel goals.

A man must have a code.

by Fehr and Balanced on Sep 13, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Exactly- just because he moves his feet in the offensive zone doesn’t mean he’s suddenly going to backcheck like a man possessed. I remember listening to the radio last season against Ottawa (this game) and Jamie Baker was just railing on the CASH line for their complete disinterest in playing defense.

Will he make up for it with his goal scoring abilities? Probably. But it’s something that has me concerned, along with the salary structure of San Jose. It’s a win deal, but it’s safe to say there remains a lot of question marks going forward.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

Completely off topic, but

I’m watching “Run, Ronnie, Run” on Comedy Central, which was produced by Oren Koules. A couple of minutes ago, I saw a commercial for the Slap Chop! Awesome! You have to see it, it’s rad! The original informercial was over 3 minutes, then a DJ remixed it and Vince (Yes, Vince from ShamWOW!) and team liked it so much they shortened it to 2 minutes and use it on air.

Check it out

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 12, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions  

This is all well and good

But what’s really important is that TCY doesn’t trade his moniker.

I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that.

by theneverman on Sep 12, 2009 9:27 PM PDT reply actions  

I had planned on writing a piece earlier this summer that was scrapped after the barrage of Marleau rumors, but what’s the likelihood of DW channeling his inner Ken Holland and signing Patty to a long-term Johan Franzen type deal? If you want to keep him and field a competitive bottom line/pairings, that might be the way to go. If you extend him into the seven year range you’re looking at roughly $4.0 M a year. That would go a long way, and if he continues or improves on his totals from last season (not hard to expect if he plays with Heatley/Thornton), I think you see Wilson consider doing so. However, now we’ll put him at $6.0 M considering that’s nothing but speculation.

Marleau is 30 years old entering this season, 31 entering the season in which he’d be on a new contract. You’d need a lot more than 7 years to get him to signed for a cap hit of 4.0M, as he shouldn’t be declining from where he is for a solid 4-5 more years. If you want a one of those type of deals, it would have to be 10-11 years long, to get an average down to 4M. Maybe starting somewhere around 8M and dropping to 1M in the last 2 years. I don’t know enough about the Sharks’ financial situations to know if they’re fine with spending 60M+ in a season or not, but that would be a very important consideration.

I think getting Marleau’s name on a deal like that would be a good idea, but I have a hard time believing that would happen, and after everything that’s happened, I wouldn’t be surprised if Marleau didn’t want to stay.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Sep 12, 2009 10:21 PM PDT reply actions  

I don’t think anyone really believes that Patty would want or request an annual salary of $8M, so you can shave off quite a bit of your contract right there. You’re right though, if it’s truly to be his last NHL contract, then it’s going to have to be 9 years+.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 12, 2009 11:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the reply Joe. Updated the post with your thoughts- it’s a good point to make.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is still a lot to take in

I somewhat followed Heatley and the Thrashers a few years back, as my mum’s side of the family hails from Camden County (Georgia). I more or less ignored ‘Heater’ after the incredibly sad accident and subsequent move to Ottawa.

I harbor mixed feelings about his arrival. I wish we still had JR to be his mentor (Heatley Wiki: “Twenty-two years old? You’re not supposed to be able to pull moves like that at 22. My goodness.”-JR). All in all, I hope he can find solace in sunny San Jose, and in turn focus on playing the game and cementing his future.

A story worth noting:
The way to San Jose: A Heatley timeline

I'm a happy seal

by SwisherThresher on Sep 12, 2009 11:06 PM PDT reply actions  

I had the same thought when someone brought up JR earlier today: I wish he could still mentor Heatley. Perhaps being away from the limelight (and the fodder of articles like the one you linked) will give him the opportunity to put his past behind him. Most of the players that have come through here have had nothing but good things to say. I’m thinking specifically of Craig Rivet, but the comments from Cheechoo earlier today are nice, too.

I have to be honest, I am REALLY excited for DH to play in the first game, but even more excited to SEE him play in my first game of the year – preseason, September 19th, vs. Phoenix.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 12, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could hear JR say that quote in this video. #3 of the top ten.

Also when I was looking up that video I also found this video, it sounds like JR was quite an influence and the other guys had no voice. Actually he was the only one with a mic so that makes sense…

by idunno723 on Sep 12, 2009 11:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Heater’s 28 now. He’s scored 50 goals twice, and 100+ points twice. I don’t think he needs mentoring; he can be a complete asshole for all I care as long as he does his job.

One aspect of the Sharks management and fans that hasn’t changed over the years is an emphasis on character. Maybe an overemphasis. With all due respect, Ed Belfour didn’t win his Cup ring for being a nice guy and a cheerful teammate.

by ievans on Sep 13, 2009 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ugh… why did it have to be the Sharks? As a Kings fan I was crushed when you guys stole Thornton and now you steal Heatley. I feel like Bruce Willis in Die Hard 2… how can the same thing happen to the same guy twice?

---
http://theroyalhalf.blogspot.com/

by ChrisKontos on Sep 13, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions  

With all of the card-carrying members of the NHLPA that didn’t receive contracts this year, I am starting to believe that the cap ceiling will not fall next year. If anything, I feel the floor may be raised to ensure these players don’t have to sit on the shelf. In my recollection, I cannot recall a better group of unsigned players right before the preseason. I’ll bet every one of them is looking forward to renegotiating the CBA in 2011.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 13, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions  

I consider the first two lines stacked and I’m pleased with that. Now to the ice so all this jibber-jabber can have some meaning.

I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that.

by theneverman on Sep 13, 2009 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Right- top six is fucking world class. Still some question marks that remain on the 3-4 lines as well as the blueline. Those should be answered soon enough.

Can’t fucking wait for October 1st.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Here's a new thought:

What if Thomas Greiss all of a sudden shows he can handle the NHL. They could trade Nabby and clear up cap space. How old do goaltenders usually play up to? Nabokov’s 34 and going to decline soon (right?).

by idunno723 on Sep 13, 2009 4:27 PM PDT reply actions  

It could be argued that the decline has already started.

Fear the Fin: Where... IMA TAKING UR BLOGZ FRUM U!!

by TCY on Sep 13, 2009 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

The market for veteran goalies is not what it once was. I just don’t see many teams that would benefit from trading for Nabby, sad to say.

by ievans on Sep 13, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Considering that Nabby can just walk away (to the KHL?) for nothing, getting anything in return might be in play. If we get close to the deadline and can get someone decent in return, I vote for it. It’s not like he’s a proven playoff performer. I’m not going the route of calling anyone a “choker,” but he has experience doing very little in the postseason.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 13, 2009 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait.....

The AHL playoffs AREN’T as hard as NHL playoffs? /sarcasm

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 13, 2009 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not concerned with absolute difficulty, I want to know about relative. The pressure was on and he stepped it up. However, Greiss’ first stint with San Jose didn’t go so well.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 13, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

2 games my friends, 2 games. hardly a fair sample size for anyone!

by a10dency2ask on Sep 13, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough for DW to send him down and give a contract to Boucher. Maybe numbers aren’t enough for a fair sample size, but the quality wasn’t there.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 13, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly, he sent him down so he could get more experience instead of sitting on the bench. Boucher’s hiring wasn’t necessarily a confirmation that he was better (though he probably was), but rather a confirmation that he was an experienced tender who could step in when needed, and didn’t require a lot more playing time to improve

by a10dency2ask on Sep 13, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Greiss is only 23!

(This is going to be really exaggerated but still makes a point IMO)

It’s like putting a baby on ice in an NHL game. The baby’s obviously not going to play hockey very well. When the baby grows up, it might be good at hockey but you’re not going to judge it based on his first time in the NHL.

by idunno723 on Sep 13, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

And I think we’re all hoping he’s ready now.

“There is no squabbling so violent as that between people who accepted an idea yesterday and those who will accept the same idea tomorrow.” – Christopher Morley

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Sep 13, 2009 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

Corey Schwab thinks he's ready:

Corey Schwab: I feel Greiss is ready to make the jump to the NHL. If you look at his career path he has progressed every year. Last year he got to play a lot of games in Worcester and in the last 15 games or so of the season he played very well and carried that team to the playoffs. It goes back to the mental aspect of the position. When a guy comes up to the NHL he needs to believe in himself that he deserves to be in the NHL and that he can win games there. How many games he gets in the NHL this year is not up to me, that’s up to the coaching staff. But, I feel he is ready to compete and win some games for San Jose.

via Sharkspage

by idunno723 on Sep 14, 2009 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

The market for veteran goalies is not what it once was. I just don’t see many teams that would benefit from trading for Nabby, sad to say.

Right on the money.

Even if he does walk for nothing, your best shot at winning the Cup next season is with him between the pipes. No matter how well Greiss plays, I think you take your shot with Nabokov*.

*Obviously this is contingent upon seeing how everything pans out this year, but I don’t think opinions will change all too much before the deadline.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 13, 2009 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

Greiss the next Hiller or Varlamov?

Who knows, it happens to us every season, so why not turn the tables. (Varlamov is the Caps good young guy who also came out of nowhere). I’d be happy if he just got more than 2 starts. I’m getting excited to see what this kid can do, and whether or not he can hack it with the big boys.

by Chicago Shark on Sep 14, 2009 8:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

Greiss the next Hiller or Varlamov?

Our blueline is nowhere near the one Anaheim iced last season. Pronger, Niedermayer, and Beauchemin had just as much, if not more, to do with Hiller’s success in the playoffs. And we all saw how Varlamade’s season ended…

I think it’s a good strategy for a team that’s still on the up and up, but San Jose is at the peak of the mountain here. I doubt you see DW compose a roster of this magnitude anytime in the near future, and turning over the reigns to an unproven netminder without an excellent defense in front of him is really rolling the dice. Say Greiss goes down with an injury, or throws up two stinkers in a row? Who do you turn to? Washington had their starter for the entire season Theodore ready (admittedly not a very appealing choice) while Anaheim had Giguere, a former Conn Smythe winner, on the bench.

Anyways, think of it this way- would Detroit start Thomas Greiss if they were looking to make a deep playoff run? I don’t think they would.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 14, 2009 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hear ya

Just wishful thinking on my part. I’d love for us to ride an effective Nabby to a championship this season, but I’d also like to see Greiss get some playing time, i.e. more than 2 starts.

by Chicago Shark on Sep 14, 2009 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Plus, didn’t Washington also have Brett Johnson or w/e, who was their starting goalie until he got injured? So they had two mediocre (but serviceable) starters plus Varlamov. And then of course, their web designer could play in a pinch. So they weren’t relying solely on Varlamov.

Same thing with Hiller – the Ducks also have Giguere, a Conn Smythe winner when the Ducks didn’t even win the Cup. While his play did decrease after his dad died, he was still a top goalie in the league at one point, and so a great safety net for Hiller.

If the Sharks trade away Nabokov and go with Greiss, there is no similar safety net. The only way that a Hiller or Varlamov situation exists is if Greiss plays so well that he forces Nabokov out of the starting job, which is largely what happened with the two young goalies.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Sep 14, 2009 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

According to WTC....

He needs a work visa and won’t be here for three-four days. Great, he is already showing us up ;)

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 13, 2009 9:05 PM PDT reply actions  

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