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The Ice At HP Pavilion

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Soft and slow, oh HP Pavilion how I love you so

HP Pavilion has always had notoriously terrible ice, and this past season was no different. I've exchanged some fisticuffs over the importance of this issue on multiple occasions- since I'm out of town and said persons can't yell at me for being firmly entrenched in my opinion, I'm comfortable with leaving it up to a poll.

First off, a little history on the ice conditions in San Jose. HP Pavilion is a very active building, housing roughly 200 events each year. The Sharks used to share the floor with the San Jose Stealth (an indoor lacrosse organization that moved to Washington this summer), and would occasionally play games the night after these games. The problem with the ice can be attributed to many things, but most notably: a) the fact that San Jose generally sees temperatures in the 70 degree range during the beginning and tail end of the season b) with multiple events occurring near game time, you have a lot of non-game wear on the surface and opening of the arena service doors, as well as c) the culmination of the above two things leading to a situation where ice is being frozen and refrozen, resulting in impurities being brought to the surface*.

*I'm not sure what the average is at HP Pavilion, but the NHL recommends 60 degrees and 40% humidity during hockey games.

Star-divide

I doubt I can find a single Sharks fan who is consistently happy with the ice conditions in HP Pavilion. It's a topic of post-game discussion for my friends and I probably ten games a year. However, this is not a call for the ice making staff to be held solely responsible for the situation- ice quality is an issue across the NHL in many cities (specifically warm weather ones), with the Verizon Center in DC being another arena that has received criticism for their product.

Tharaldson3_ice_medium

Ice Making and Lovemaking: The Ballad of Bruce Tharaldson

I also am aware that both teams have to play on the surface during the course of a given tilt, which in theory should nullify all of the effects the ice surface has on the respective teams. That has been the argument I've heard over the years, and it seems to be one that people are very convinced of.

Nay I say to you. Nay.

When the ice gets chippy, it gets more difficult to stickhandle. Instead of wheeling through the neutral zone teams are going to be putting the puck in the corners. Instead of hitting that initial breakout pass in the defensive zone to fuel the offense, guys are going to be chipping pucks out. Instead of stretching the defense by aggressively sending wingers down the ice, guys are going to be skating through slush and playing conservatively due to the lack of successful stretch passes.

Take a look at the general makeup of the Sharks. Skilled guys, most being good skaters. One of the fastest teams in the league, and filled with members who can move the puck well in the passing game. With poor ice conditions however, now you're taking away that advantage. Joe Thornton isn't able to thread the needle because the snow is changing the course of his pass. Patrick Marleau isn't going to hit the near side top corner because he can't get the puck on edge. Devin Setoguchi isn't able to cut to the middle and drag a couple defenders with him to open up the right side because he's going to lose an edge trying to make a cut on what amounts to a Slurpee by the end of the third. A large portion of San Jose's game centers around hitting a forward with a breakout pass between the circles- if there's no confidence in making that feed because it might bounce and result in an offensive zone turnover, now you're clearing the puck up the boards and slowing the game down. The team's personnel is built on speed and pushing the envelope, not mucking around and grinding it out. Professional sports is about finding every advantage you can and playing to your strengths. Soft ice does nothing to help the Sharks execute that game plan.

For all you casual blowhards who just watch hockey because the Niners suck, here's something you will understand. A game at Lambeau Field in December, filled with snow and wind. A good passing team comes to town, a team that likes to put the ball down the field, goes up against the Packers who like to run the ball a lot because Dorsey Levens is a workhorse. Even though both squads are dealing with the same field conditions, the running team is going to have an advantage because they don't have to deal with the wind.

Playing conditions affect both teams, but do so at varying degrees of importance. A slow team with a great blueline isn't going to complain about the ice surface as much as a fast team with a great top-six will. They have two different game plans and skill sets. One wants to slow it down and play dump and chase, the other wants to speed it up and carry the puck over the blueline. Assuming that by entering an outside variable into the equation won't change anything in this regard seems haphazard to me. Is it a defining factor in the win/loss column every night? Not at all. But just because it doesn't always show up on the scoreboard doesn't mean it won't have an affect on the game.

Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, and maybe I'm the only one who cares. In my opinion it's a damn shame to see professional athletes have to compete on that surface 41 nights a year. The risk of injury (specifically groin) is increased, and the level of play takes a hit as well. I hope that the Stealth's move to Washington leads to an improvement in ice quality, but I'm not holding my breath- playing in a warm weather climate will likely cause this to be an issue that remains for seasons to come.

 

Go Sharks.

Poll
Ice conditions in NHL arenas
Can affect one team more than another
168 votes
Always affect both teams equally
58 votes

226 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 21 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Hey, hey, hey!

For all you casual blowhards who just watch hockey because the Niners suck

I take offense to that! The Niners are on the rise and will do just fine! (Please win on Sunday…) =D

"I watch the Wings a lot," says Thornton. "They're the NHL's second-best team."

by Quid Pro Clowe on Sep 8, 2009 7:56 AM PDT reply actions  

Dude,
Love the name… even if Hannibal Lector images are coming to mind.

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 8, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

They're making the playoffs...

and I’m praying for a surprise Superbowl win

by SharksFanTillDeath on Sep 8, 2009 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

On some Saturdays, the Stealth would play in the morning

and then the Sharks would play in the afternoon!

I cant believe the ice would be ready for that. That’s why I’m glad both arena football and Lacrosse have gone!

"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009

by Morti on Sep 8, 2009 8:38 AM PDT reply actions  

You see the same thing in most outdoor sports

I’ll take soccer, because I played for close to 20 years. Some teams I played on looked to make a long pass to a forward, who would attempt to breakaway from the defenders. This long pass depended on the skill of the person passing, and the field conditions being conducive to a long pass. If the field was muddy or wet, or it was windy, this game plan didn’t work. If the other team’s style used short passes to move the ball up the field, those conditions would still affect them, but not nearly as much.

This was a very good breakdown Plank. As a fan, I usually want to think that the only thing determining the outcome is the skill levels of the two teams. But, sometimes outside factors come into play, think referee bias towards giving Anaheim penalties. The referees responding to Anaheim’s reputation may be like sloppy ice conditions; you don’t want it to affect one team disproportionately, but it will.

by Chicago Shark on Sep 8, 2009 8:50 AM PDT reply actions  

Whoo!
I’ve exchanged some fisticuffs over the importance of this issue on multiple occasions- since I’m out of town and said persons can’t yell at me for being firmly entrenched in my opinion, I’m comfortable with leaving it up to a poll.

A winner is me!

I would like to see the stats on increased groin injuries due to ice condition. That might cause me to change my mind (or at least give me credence to the theory that ice conditions affects the game to a larger degree than I currently feel it does). It’s a wonderful argument, but I need numbers to back it up. Until then it’s just anecdotal. (NHL level please.)

Actually numbers on how the ice conditions in all 30 building varies and an info on how that has effect performance would be good. Assuming that can be measured. I mean, performance is inherently variable so any stats would likely be skewed towards reflecting the overall skill and performance level of the team.

resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!" Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by CTGray on Sep 8, 2009 9:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Finding statistics on the prevalence of groin injuries is a fool’s errand considering NHL teams don’t release injury information. I can however give you an article published last season that provides quotes from NHL players who explain their view [link].

I can also tell you from experience that soft ice really taxes your legs. You can feel it every time you try and make a hard cut- there’s absolutely nothing for your blades to hold on to. I’m not a very good skater, but I actually prefer playing on bad ice because it makes better players less mobile, as well as reducing their passing game. Backcheck down the middle and you’re set.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 8, 2009 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I just see a sentence were a player guesses the ice lead to groin issues. Which, yeah, ok, I can give some credence too since I know running on cement all the time can mess up your shins. (though so can bad running mechanics, and hell, high heels but I digress)

However, I also noted that it said the ice is rated after each game. This got me thinking (dangerous, I know) If the ice is really as horrid as claimed, the players would obviously be complaining about it. Assuming it stayed poor for a long time, the complaints would likely become very visible. It’s way too hard to keep a secret like that now days.

This alone leads me to believe that while the Sharks may not have the “best” ice, they more often then not have good ice. I doubt you keep players like Joe around if your ice is teh sux. I still say the team have overall issues that affect performance more than the ice MOST nights. Especially when looking at all the other locations that have rinks and warm/more humid weather.

Could ice quality occasionally be a contributing factor? Yes. That I ‘ll buy. But I have yet to be convinced that it is a major factor in all games. Now, this may be because I see the claim of poor ice come out more after that Sharks have a terrible home game, which really leads me to believe that many fans pushing the idea are simply looking for some reason other than “my team sucked” to blame the loss on. (not saying that is what Plank is doing, just that it feels like many fans go that route when the team starts to inexplicably disappoint) We’re pretty good at finding reasons to rationalize poor performance. I say this as an athlete who has, at times, just sucked at the event I was competing in.

resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!" Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by CTGray on Sep 8, 2009 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad ice

I do believe the year the Sharks went to the Conference Finals, Management had made a big investment in climate control at the tank, in the hopes of having faster ice. This coupled with Ron Wilson’s departure from Darryl Sutter’s gameplan made the Sharks a faster team.

I concur in general that ice quality hurts the Sharks because they are a skilled team. Over an 82 game season, we’ve all seen those games where the puck seemingly refuses to settle as if it’s warmed up or something.

However, I believe, in general, the ice quality issues are nullified by a few key factors:

No Canadian Team has won the Stanley Cup since the Montreal Canadiens. Since that time, Stanley Cup winners have included: The Dallas Stars, The Tampa Bay Lightning, The Anaheim Ducks, The Colorado Avalanche, The Carolina Hurricanes.

Building a team around teams that play better on cold ice is somewhat folly because the Stanley Cup is played for in April, May and June. Speed isn’t everything (see: Sabres, Buffalo, 2006).

Yes, ice quality is an issue, that can’t be argued. If it hurts your team more than the other team, that may be more of an issue with the team rather than the ice.

We all ask ourselves why this team can’t seem to compete in the post-season. To that respect, it is always fair to ask if they have truly been built to do so, and that is a top-to-bottom sort of question, and everyone’s neck is on the line for that one.

But it’s not going to matter. Cup comes to San Jose this year. Go Sharks!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

by ElvisVF101 on Sep 8, 2009 9:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes, ice quality is an issue, that can’t be argued. If it hurts your team more than the other team, that may be more of an issue with the team rather than the ice.

That sums up my feelings on it perfectly. Well put.

resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!" Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by CTGray on Sep 8, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

You may be looking at things too broadly here, I think. I don’t this is a reason for postseason success or failure, nor is it the sole reason for a team’s loss on any given night. It’s just another aspect of a home game that needs to be accounted for.

Think of it this way- a team consistently draws one more penalty than their opponents every night. You can’t say that will lead to a win, but it puts them in a better opportunity to do so. Correlation does not imply causation.

Appreciate your response though. Definitely brought up a solid opposing viewpoint.

Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Sep 8, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Too many big words!

Agree that correlation and causation are not linked. And you’re right, this is an issue every home game. And my post-season argument is only so strong seeing as how the Sharks were one of the most dominant home teams last season and went 1-2 at home to the Ducks in April. In a seasons where the Sharks were road warriors, Rexall place was an impenetrable fortress.

This team defies explanations at times. It’s why we root for them I guess.

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

by ElvisVF101 on Sep 8, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree. What was the Sharks home record last season? What was their away record? I don’t see them being hindered by poor ice. You don’t win 32 home games by being at a disadvantage.

by BeastlyChicken on Sep 9, 2009 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dang

I didn’t realize the Stealth moved this summer – glad I finally went to a game in the spring.

I’m now going to read the rest of the article.

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 8, 2009 9:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Great article Plank

And I’m not just kissing butt with that one.

One thing though about the warm weather climate. You guys know how many road games I attend – Montreal, Vancouver, Tampa Bay, etc. You wanna know the coldest arena I’ve ever been to?

Bank Atlantic Center, home to the Florida Panthers. Walk outdoors and you’re assaulted by heat and humidity, even in the winter. Indoors, however, you’d think you’re in the Yukon (slight exaggeration).

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 8, 2009 10:28 AM PDT reply actions  

I wonder if that's

because of the outside climate. Since it’s so hot and humid outside, there is probably a lot more pressure to make it colder inside.

by Chicago Shark on Sep 8, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t recall hearing the Sharks players complain much about the ice (lord know roenick probably would’ve) vs. other teams. Washington players have complained (via the media) and I think Ted Leonsis has addressed it a couple of times in his blog.

As a goalie, I liked crappy ice because it slowed down the puck so I could attempt to get a handle on it…

by AfroPuff on Sep 8, 2009 3:22 PM PDT reply actions  

when I was in high school,

which was about 8 years ago, I played on that ice after a sharks game. Now I know it was after a game and over 8 years ago, but that ice was TERRIBLE. The best way to describe it is like driving along the train tracks the wrong way. Skate marks get left deep in the ice and by the third period its just aweful. Its good that fewer events will take place at the shark tank this year that way they dont have to mess with it too much but there has got to be something else they can do.

by SD_Sharks_Fan on Sep 8, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions  

From Wikipedia
In 2006, the HP Pavilion sold the most tickets to non-sporting events of any venue in the Western United States, and the fourth highest total in the world, after Madison Square Garden in New York City, the Manchester Evening News Arena in Manchester, and the Air Canada Centre in Toronto.

In need of a signature... please advise.

by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Sep 8, 2009 4:05 PM PDT reply actions  

I almost posted that last night/morning.

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club

by jwizzle241 on Sep 8, 2009 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

^^%$#@( terrible ice!

YES!!

I have been complaining FOR YEARS that the sucky ice at HP pavilion is costing the Sharks big time. When you take a fast, skilled team and put them on slush with a bunch of ham-fisted grinders, you nullify all the advantages of the skill/speed.

I too have skated games there after Sharks contests and it’s almost unplayable, just marginally better than the parking lot.

If the Fish want to get past the second round, forget Heatley or Kessel. Spend the $5 Mil on an air handler / dehumidifier so Joe and Patty don’t have to skate on tofu.

by Assist24 on Sep 9, 2009 8:59 PM PDT reply actions  

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