Sharks Gameday: Secondary
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| 29-10-7, 65 points | 26-15-5, 57 points |
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| 2nd in Western Conference |
6th in Western Conference |
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And it comes down to you, never and ever. Wrecked my day with looks and flirts, and midnight with your shortest perks. Past the point of trying, are you a dying breed? Thank history for reminding me of all the things that went completely wrong.
*****
It's hard not to be pleased with last night, especially considering how things have gone this season with Los Angeles. Blake redeemed himself after a porous outing a week ago, Nabokov managed to shut the door in the final frame when the pace ramped up, and the second line generated some excellent scoring chances even if they didn't show up on the scoresheet.
Funny you mention that second line today Plank. Hello precious inner monologue-- did you have a pertinent point of discussion you were planning on divulging to the masses? Correct good sir! Should we wait until after the jump or just get into it now? I'm not sure really. You seem to be running the show around here today, and I'd hate to divert your energy away from delivering on what seems to be something the good people would want to hear. Fair enough, fair enough. Let's not waste any more time than we already have and hit the heavy stuff. Sounds good to me. Oh, and Mr. Inner Monologue? Yes? Let's not do this again. It's not nearly as humorous as I expected it to be.
*****
Secondary scoring. We covered it at the beginning of the season and touched on it one month ago, discussed it in the comments intermittently-- fact of the matter is, we all should have some degree of familiarity with the subject. I haven't been happy with the production on a night to night basis throughout the season, and the second line's current skid of zero goals in the year 2010 has provided a good opportunity to isolate some basic quantitative data while the topic is still fresh.
Without further ado, here's one of those fancy charts your girl has been raving about. Eight current Western Conference playoff teams, with categories broken up as follows: games played, top two goal scorers totals, remaining goal scorers totals, total GF, and the percentage of GF the top two scorers are responsible for.
Teams are ranked in order of "balance", which is why you will see San Jose last.
Analysis after the jump.
1) From now until the end of the season, most of my comparative analysis will focus on the Western Conference. This should be fairly intuitive, but for those of you who are missing a cerebral cortex, it's because these are the teams San Jose will face during The Months That Shall Not Be Named. That's why I avoided the Eastern Conference like an overweight neighbor who suntans in a skimpy bikini during January and eats Fritos off her stomach. Unbelievable*.
*She and her roomates all think I'm British because I always yell at them in my Reginald Dustyballs accent**. "Bollocks for brains" never fails to make her smile, probably because she doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about.
**It's really time for a new FTF Trackz song. I've got a couple in the works, and while I'm not making any promises, let's shoot for three by the end of the regular season.
2) Chicago is better than San Jose, and it would be considered an upset if we were victorious in a seven game series. I don't think it's out of the question to say the Blackhawks are the class of the Western Conference right now, and looking at this chart it's easy to see why-- they roll a ton of lines that can score, produce from the blueline, and have a goal differential that is the best in the league. If they manage to get an upgrade at the deadline and San Jose stands pat, it's WCF's or bust and I'll consider the season a success for the Sharkies. Sad but true. Get over it.
3) 38.19% of goal scoring output from Marleau and Heatley? That's worse than the time I figured out I could use a normal sized water bottle as a fleshlight. You're damn right-- wait, what? Dear god.
Anyways, seriously what the hell was that man, anyways, the over-reliance San Jose has on their top two goal scorers poses a problem for San Jose once we make our way down the stretch run. Teams can key in on Marleau and Heatley, will key in on Marleau and Heatley, and in the process of doing so, effectively lay to waste a huge portion of the Sharks offensive output. A team with excellent defensive capabilities (Chicago being the obvious example here with Keith-Seabrook, but Vancouver, Calgary, and Phoenix should also be in the conversation) are the demons of San Jose, especially if HTML is skating on the same line together. Shut them down and you have a very good chance of beating the Sharks. It's that simple (in theory) over a seven game set.
I don't have any data to back this up, but I seem to recall McLellan mixing up the lines against the majority of these seven teams once the second period hits, and doing it a helluva lot more than he would against the Western Conference bottom feeders. It's a big reason why I'm still not completely sold on HTML going forward-- sure they can mop up the oil and defeather a duck or two, but when Heatley and Marleau have accounted for one goal between them against the Phoenix Coyotes, it's a red flag that indicates this may not work down the line.
I'd still like to see Oh Captain My Captain and Goocherooski switch places at evens for the time being (if not for the purpose of spreading out the scoring, then to at least get Setoguchi going), and think that's how things eventually shake out after the Olympic break. There's just too much at stake here to expect that line to carry the load all the time. Marleau's talented enough where he'll rub off on Clowe/Pavelski if given the requisite number of games to re-establish chemistry, and even if his production drops a bit because of it, I bet it's made up with increased output from the team as a whole. Sure Setoguchi hasn't earned a promotion, but he didn't exactly deserve a demotion to the fourth line coming back from injury either. It messed with his head and he's been forcing things ever since. Coddle him a bit, give him four games of consistency with Papa Joe, and watch the youngun blossom into the successful and confident young man we all hope he will become.
4) Okay sure, the Sharks are top heavy percentage-wise. But isn't that just because they're one of the highest goal scoring teams the world has ever known? Not really. 38.19% would admittedly look a lot worse on a team like Phoenix, a team who would be thrilled with 0-0 shootout wins for the rest of the year, but if you sort the list by raw totals of goal scorers not in the top two, San Jose only moves up to the sixth spot (tied with the Coyotes). It's definitely an issue.
5) What about teams in the past-- is this an anomaly, or have other successful teams dealt with the same problem? We'll be digging into that tomorrow. Hold your horses cowboy.
6) Phoning Dr. Blake. San Jose requires laxatives to precipitate the release of secondary scoring . An upgrade would be nice, and it will be something we look at in mid-February, but the likely solution is going to have to come from inside the organization. The Sharks probably need an upgrade in defense over bolstering their secondary scoring at the forward position, but if these trends hold or even get worse, I wouldn't put anything off the table. In a perfect world you kill two birds with one stone and get a solid blueliner who can score goals, but with the amount of cap space the Sharks will be working with, that's a long shot. Players like that don't come cheap.
McCarthy's not a bad player in the least, but I'm sure he's up at this point because he's cheaper than both Ferriero and McGinn. Between that, and the demotion of McLaren, San Jose sure isn't helping themselves out all too much. Not when it comes to secondary scoring.
*****
Prediction: Sharks win 1-0 in the shootout. Lone goal by Greiss, who puts one top corner in the 19th round.
Go Sharks.
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97 comments
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Comments
Very funny!
I know what you mean about the too tight bikini and Fritos on the tum tum. I think the british words for that type of lass, is “Fat Slag”. Perhaps an easy conquest?
Is it even worth the emotional investment to wait by the phone and hope she calls? In other words, do I convince myself that the Sharks actually have a chance to win Lord Stanley’s cup?
She likes me, I know she’s going to call me back any minute now….
Even so, I still put $20 down on SJ to win it all this year at 8 to 1. So I guess I’ll always remain hopeful.
by 1 and done on Jan 12, 2010 7:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Those stats all point to "Uh oh", but...
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that it will normalize by season’s end.
I know that the other teams had to deal with this as well, but the injuries to Pavelski and Setoguchi really did a number on our team’s secondary scoring earlier in the year. That, coupled with the fact that none of the HTML line has missed significant time, feeds into these numbers. Also, when trigger happy Todd McLellan switches line combos on a whim (especially on the last 3 pairings), it’s almost impossible to build any type of chemistry.
I will say, though, that I agree with Plank’s assertion that Seto and Marleau should switch places. Seto played well earlier on the year whilst with Thornton and Heatley, scoring 7 of his 10 total goals in the 11 games before his injury. Marleau is also more than capable of scoring w/o Joe’s help… although, I would like to see him win the Rocket Richard.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by That'll Cheech You on Jan 12, 2010 8:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
*last 3 lines, not pairings.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by That'll Cheech You on Jan 12, 2010 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with you on Marleau. I do hope he wins the Rocket, although it won’t help Wilson in salary negotiations.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, he got Cheechoo for $3 MM!
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by That'll Cheech You on Jan 12, 2010 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we can assume that “normalize” is roughly 25% (the mean of the aforementioned seven teams), and the Sharks would continue their current goal scoring pace (257 by season’s end), that would mean Heatley and Marleau will account for 11 goals and the rest of the team would pop in 102.
Doubt it happens.
I think a healthy percentage would be around 33%, especially if McLellan decides to keep HTML together for the long run. What concerns me the most isn’t just the percentage of output, but the raw totals of secondary scoring— even if you take the rates at which Pavelski and Setoguchi are scoring over an 82 game year and add them to the totals (+6), San Jose is still sixth amongst all Western Conference teams. It’s an issue that plagued the team last season during the playoffs, and with Blake’s decline and the loss of Ehrhoff, it’s hard to expect much more out of the blueline than what they already have given.
Douglas Murray is second on the blueline in goals scored. Douglas Murray is second. On the blueline. In goals scored.
This rests with the forwards apparently, and unless Pavelski/Clowe/Setoguchi manage to get things going, it’s going to be a long road winning hockey games against the top teams in the Conference. Splitting up HTML, like you mentioned that I mentioned and am now mentioning again (heh), should do a lot to help that.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
By normalize, I would assume it nears 25% over the remainder of the season, not taking into account what has happened previous.
No big trades for a forward are going to happen, so it’s going to have to be the usual suspects who step up and score.
Here’s hoping for a blueline addition, though. Seidenberg jersey is a click away.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by That'll Cheech You on Jan 12, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
according to boyle and some of the other players, Murray is a bigger offensive threat. In fact, Boyle calls Murray the best player on the team. Check http://sharks.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=1024&id=48657 for confirmation
by fatbabies on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah… Are you being sarcastic, or did you just miss the joke? Because all those guys were picking Murray because it was right after he scored his fluke pre-season hat trick.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Proud to say my son owns Boyle’s signed 3-star-stick from that game.
Watching Dan skating towards my son was a surreal experience.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No sarcasm here
I’ve played hockey my whole life, and am not that enamored by meeting hockey players….
But seeing the look on a kid’s face after interacting with an NHL player is all sorts of awesome. It’s like going to Great America and not having to pay for a damn thing.
Great America is still open, isn’t it?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s now “California’s” Great America. Top Gun is now known as Flight Deck…
"I think people were ready to watch some hockey. We took up enough of everyone’s time."
-Jody Shelley after an 87 second hockey fight against Cam Janssen
by idunno723 on Jan 12, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
as long as it's still there
*sigh
I miss San Jose so much it kills me a little, daily.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 3:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
being sarcastic. I definitely did not miss the joke.
I’m not a big stats guy, possibly because I play soccer, where it is almost impossible to keep meaningful stats. So if there is a joke to be made about some flukey or weird stat I will gladly step to hammer the point home with sarcasm
by fatbabies on Jan 12, 2010 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s because Murray is a goal scoring machine, as evidenced by that preseason game against Anaheim.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jan 12, 2010 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago is better, but..
their goaltending is still an issue, as shown by the recent results.
Let’s not forget that the man has yet to win a playoff series in his career.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Very true,
The Sharks may be outgunned offensively (and defensively, for that matter) against Chicago. But in a series, if Nabby gets hot, Huet doesn’t stand a chance.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 10:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s a good point.
I think with the defensive unit in front of him though, it reminds me a lot of Chris Osgood. Sure Ozzy has had a lot more success in the playoffs than Delicate Crystal That Floats Huet, but on some level the Hawks are going to be able to hide him rather effectively (and already have). They’re absolutely killing it right now in shots against, and that’s a big part of why they’re dangerous in my eyes.
@ZeroIndulgence: Nabby’s likely going to face more shots in a series though, so even if their save percentage is close, he’ll give up more goals. A hot Nabokov is just what the doctor ordered for this team, but I don’t think we can put all our eggs into that basket considering his track record. He’s a good goaltender, and I think a contract year is obviously going to help his play, but with all the work he’s been getting this season in an Olympic year you have to wonder how he’ll hold up.
Man, I must have woken up on the wrong side of the bed today. Pessimism (rational, I think, but nonetheless pessimism) at it’s finest.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think the Sharks can get plenty of shots on net. Also, the point was that Nabby should have a better save percentage than Huet, and thus we could still win. However, I get the point. It would be better if our SCF hopes and dreams didn’t come solely down to Nabby being a god.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but let’s keep in mind that last year, playing behind the same “best NHL defense” in playoffs Huet was terrible. Without Bulin wall Hawks likely end where Sharks ended – 1st round loss. He may gain some confidence this season, but we all know things restart once it’s playoffs time, and his confidence may go out of the window with one loss.
He’s still Huet.
Just ask any Hawks fan. If one thing scares them, it is a big question mark in goal, although on paper Huet is not that much worse than Osgood 2 years ago, or Fluery a year ago. Oh yes, they also have a cursed Slovak on their roster.
Just trying to cheer you up Plank. There is still a lot of hockey to be played between now and April. Including Olympics where I assume Russia/Canada are going all the way (sorry, man), that’s 45 or so games for most important Sharks.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciate the optimism
I guess here’s the question when it comes to Huet:
Will he lose three games before the Hawks elite D and balanced O can win 4?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no idea. But as I said before, Huet have lost every playoffs series he started so far in his career. Talk about a playoff choker.
Plus, what if they lose one of their “Big Three” d-man to injury between now and 40+ games remaining (inc.Olympics)? Then all of a sudden, their defense doesn’t look as scary.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Huet definitely is the black mark on that roster, and I hope he reverts back to old form soon. That is one aspect of Chicago’s game where the Sharks have an advantage, and hopefully a bronze medal for Nabokov (heh) motivates him to win the Stanley Cup.
I can’t wait for the Olympics. You need to find some comrades to come on to the site so you’re not flying solo.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll go ahead and recruit a few peeps. If you’re all nice, we’ll even convert them to teal.
Nothing is as demotivating to a Russian as Olympic bronze medal. I think Nabokov may retire at the Olympics if that’s the case.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, he’ll just be happy for Pavelski’s gold, and want to help him get a Cup in the same year! :D
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His old form… like when he gave up 4 goals to the Wild on like 7 shots in the 3rd period the other night?
Guess he remembered it was time to surrender.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Bulin wall did them no favors last post season. He was arguably worse than Nabokov for all of their games, the Hawks just put up tons of points until they ran into the Wings. Huet was actually better than Khabibulin in the few games he played after Khabibulin’s injury, but it wasn’t enough to get past the Wings.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BRAVO
That’s worse than the time I figured out I could use a normal sized water bottle as a fleshlight.
A dark day, no doubt.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Jan 12, 2010 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well we knew there was a problem, but my oh my, don’t those stats tell a worrying tale? However good the HTML is, there’s no way we’re going to be able to rely on them come The Months That Shall Not Be Named.
Surely McLellan is just going to have to start mixing up the lines more often to rub off some of the HTML magic on the rest of the boys. I don’t think there’s really any need for them to play together as much as they do, surely they’re all so damn good they’ll be able to slot back into a single unit if and when needed?
I think with the likes of Clowe, Pavs and Seto it’s all down to confidence, get ’em playing with Patty and Joe and watch them get right back into the swing of things.
Go Sharks!
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
by BritShark on Jan 12, 2010 9:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
D'oh
Really should read these damn things through. When I say we can’t rely on the HTML, I should have stuck in a “solely” somewhere in the mix. Not for one second do I doubt their ability to turn it on during TMTSNBN…
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
by BritShark on Jan 12, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago talk *rant for the day
Chicago does have a glaring weakness in goal, and if that series WAS to happen, I expect it to come down to who wins that match up- Nabby vs. Huet. Huet probably has a little more room for error, but Nabby is going to have to shut the door big time.
With that said, this season is definitely not a success with a trip to the WCF’s (in my eyes). I’m not taking any defeatist attitude into any series against any team.
by Ronnibily on Jan 12, 2010 9:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
With that said, this season is definitely not a success with a trip to the WCF’s (in my eyes). I’m not taking any defeatist attitude into any series against any team.
I guess I should qualify that statement— it’s not a defeatist attitude, just more of realizing that right now the Hawks are the better team. And if they make a deadline deal to improve their roster, I think they’re obviously the team who, on paper, should come out of the Western Conference.
The playoffs are obviously not played on paper though. Upsets happen all the time.
I’m not throwing in the towel.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, on paper Chicago is the top team. At the same time, there has to be something different beating in the hearts of guys like Nabby, Marleau and Thornton (shit, the whole team) this year- they know the window doesn’t stay open forever. Hopefully that is a difference maker.
by Ronnibily on Jan 12, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wanted to believe that last year
That after the heartbreaker in Dallas, when it seemed like the team had really fought back, and the torrid pace at which they had opened last season, that something was different.
Well, we all know how that turned out. The “heart” matter is a dead horse, but I still have yet to really see the team demonstrate that they are different mentally. Until then, I keep throwing out the cliches about playing 60 minutes and whatnot. Drew and Jamie frequently talk about “overcoming adversity” and battling through bad stretches. This still seems a bit like a team that, if someone comes at them physically ala a Calgary or a Detroit or an Anaheim, the team has no way to respond. That’s fine during a long season. A 7 game series? Well… you know…
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe "Physically" isn't the right word
If the other team punches us in the mouth, either with a quick goal or a high energy shift, or just a relentless attack, the team breaks instead of bends.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think McLellan is right when he says that the team is weak mentally. Sadly, I’m not sure how to fix that. It would be nice to see them fight through in game adversity (like when Detroit got that second goal off a potential high stick to take the lead and the Sharks just went into flatness mode). That’s probably one of the most important parts of winning in the playoffs…being able to still play successful hockey when you backs are against the wall. And that takes mental toughness to block out everything that had been happening, and to still go out and play your game.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s really a hard thing to measure, and I don’t think we’ll get any firm answers until April rolls around unfortunately. The Sharks have entered the playoffs two different ways the last two years (hotter than hell in 08’, tails tucked in 09’), and it hasn’t seemed to matter too much.
I do think though, and this goes along with what Elvis said somewhere today, that the bottom lines are a lot tougher to play against this season. That should provide the needed “grit” aspect of their game— it’s only scoring that they need to work on right now.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, and it was obvious last night – what a solid effort that was.
When Sharks are not half asleep or not down by more than three goals allowed while on PP, no one can outhit or out-hassle them this season.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I no longer can take anything Drew says seriously.The moment Sharks are not the middle of at least 5-game winning streak, he becomes a whiniest and the most bitter old b*tch, and in his Drew’s Clues, all he does is break down our defensive mistakes just to point what a smart man he is with a remote control. “Sharks are not moving their feet” is the only thing he can point out besides reminding us one more time that “Pavelski is such a smart hockey player” and “Murray is so strong”.
I really hate listening to him when Sharks are losing.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m at the point that I use the mute button more than the fast forward when Drew talks. I seriously have considered just watching the other teams feeds. I dislike him that much. Randy is the only reason I don’t.
Fear the Fin....where being an old guy isn't all bad, and the 2nd round can be bad on the heart
by Dave Valentine on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bench Depth
This is, in theory, the deepest crop of forwards the Sharks have iced in their history. It’s troubling, then, that the scoring is so lopsided, especially when remembering this team’s last trip to the WCFs came on a team that had 7 30 goal scorers.
I’m with you on Patty going to line 2, I just think it makes both lines more dangerous. I will say this in the second line’s defense. Of late, they’ve shown some ability to cycle and get zone time, most often resulting in drawing a penalty. that’s a reasonable outcome.
However, the team must CONVERT said power plays. That also remains an issue. Your lines always have to make a contribution, whether it’s goals, special teams differential or “momentum.” We can’t rely on the power play, because those calls are going to go away come playoffs. But it’s important to build the habits that draw those penalties because they are the only way to wear down a pairing like Keith-Seabrook.
Also, how much do we miss Manny? The lineup just isn’t the same without him. And for the love of all that is holy, can the trade deadline get here so that we can get some stability on the fourth line!?!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 10:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also, how much do we miss Manny? The lineup just isn’t the same without him. And for the love of all that is holy, can the trade deadline get here so that we can get some stability on the fourth line!?!
Heh, I was talking to TCY on the phone today and he said, “Malhotra is a big part of this team.” I countered with, “Yeah, that’s like saying oxygen is a big part of your life.”
You’re right of course, missing Manny has hurt. He’s a great fit for this team and I hope he takes another discount next season to come back to San Jose.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny being Manny.
But in all seriousness, he has lived up to and exceeded all of my expectations on the team. He has been everything we thought he would be in a solid third line center, but when he would move up to the second line, the team didn’t miss a beat.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jan 12, 2010 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
According to the WTC post today they hope to have Manny back by the Bruins game this week.
Thank god. We can sit Stuaby or Shelley again… but I know it means they’ll just send McCarthy back down.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jody Shelley
Does San Jose need a non-scoring thug?
Was he missed when he was injured.
Would someone who could hit and score be better for the Sharks?
by Nevada on Jan 12, 2010 10:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’m a fan of Frazer McLaren, personally.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Geez -- get off the Shelley bandwagon
Remember who made that pass to Boyle last night? Sure, Stauby was in front of Ersberg and waved at the puck as it went by, but I think you guys are really underrating the things he does which don’t come up on the score sheet.. I still believe the comparison a few posts ago was a loaded one.
When Heatley was getting beaten up earlier this season, McLaren went to stand up for him, but I don’t think he quieted things down the way Shelley does every game.
Whether or not, we need an enforcer at all is a side point. I’ve come around to the view that we do even though I don’t care for fighting in hockey. Of the three possibilities, I’d pick Shelley over Brad “Remember how I beat up Tootoo?” Staubitz and Frazer McLaren, easy.
by cerise on Jan 12, 2010 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what you mean by “loaded”, but if you’re implying that I came into the article with a bias, then you’re correct— I admitted as such at the beginning of the third paragraph. That being said, I don’t think the statistics I used were biased— they’re solid indicators of a player in a fourth line role in my opinion.
If I remember correctly, Shelley weak-wristed a shot towards the net with no elevation, it bounced off a Kings defenseman, and came to Boyle who took advantage of a quality screen by Staubitz as he was harassing a man in front of Ersberg.
Shelley consistently takes his lion share of draws in the offensive zone (something like 70%, where all others are around 50%), takes more penalties than McLaren, is worse in nearly every statistical category than McLaren, and only dressed for one game last year (2:02 TOI) in the playoffs. The year before he played six games with an average 3:15 TOI.
What that tells me is that the coaching staff hasn’t trusted him when the games matter the most, and that whatever Shelley brings to the table in terms of things that don’t show up on the scoresheet have been deemed not worth the risk by two separate coaches (Wilson, McLellan). I’m also not sure I buy the fact that it quiets the other team down all that much, considering he was playing in game three during the 07-08 series against Calgary when Cory Sarich and Dion Phaneuf both took free wacks at Patrick Marleau.
Don’t get me wrong, I love your opinion and the debate that comes along with it, but in my opinion I just don’t think Shelley is the answer for the fourth line. McLaren seems like a player who would get much more out of ice time during the regular season, as he would likely receive more ice time during the playoffs.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for the long reply by the way— not trying to drown out your view, but once I get going on Shelley I have a hard time bringing it to a stop. He’s a good guy, and I admire his work ethic and heart, but at the end of the day I have to stick with Not Kyle.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Kyle. Maybe he’s now finally healthy and we can sign him? He can’t be any worse than Demers/Huskins/Vlasic.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kyle isn’t coming back to this team after being left in the minors for a year.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No problem — I appreciate verbosity. It’s a quiet day at work and I need something to do apart from throwing pencils at the ceiling.
Besides, you’re pretty reasonable and typing “YOU’RE WRONG BECAUSE YOU’RE DUMB” gets old after a while.
Anyway, I dropped a comment in the post where you went over all this, but I was late to the party, so you probably never saw it. Basically, I noted that (all or most? — don’t remember) of what McLaren did was during the period that Staubitz and Shelley were out. Given that the Sharks had a slow start, it seemed to me that McLaren’s numbers were more of a reflection of the general team performance than individual excellence.
The Shelley play last night looked like a pass to my eyes that was deflected by a defenseman’s stick. I’m not taking anything away from Staubitz’s screen — I just want to call attention to the good work he did that lead up to that goal.
One other bit — with respect to penalties, you’d really have to discard the fighting majors as those typically don’t hurt the team.
(Ok — time to shut up. 8) )
by cerise on Jan 12, 2010 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s true that McLaren may have been subject to a beneficial part of the Sharks season, but they also went through a five game losing streak when he was with the team. Shelley and Staubitz’s numbers don’t differ all that much from last season either— I think it’s a pretty fair representation of their play rather than an anomaly.
As for the penalties drawn/taken, fighting majors and coincidental minors are thrown out.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 8:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, good thing there is no salary cap in the playoffs.
So if he is not doing too well, Not Kyle can step in.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jan 12, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this the first game of the year where you don’t predict a goal from McGinn? At best its one of only a few…
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 10:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I even snuck him in yesterday when he obviously wasn’t playing. Surprised no one said anything.
He’s become what Sammy Pahlsson was to Sleek, for those who know what I’m talking about.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed you did sneak him in yesterday, hence the surprise he is not there today! lol…
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to know what you think about when it's gym sock time...
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
Wasn’t Marleau in the high teens in goals while playing on the second line earlier this year? During a time when Pavelski missed a lot of games.
We had two lines going then, and it was much harder to shut us down offensively. I like the big line, though I think I liked it more when Marleau was on the 2nd.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The reason I like Seto moving up to the 1st line is that he’ll be on a line with Thornton and Heatley, and thus easier to hide. He won’t have to be the top scorer on that line. He can just chip in and try to get open when defenses collapse on the other two. On line 2, he’s the top sniper (supposedly). Thus, he’ll get the defensive attention, and he has yet to show the ability to create his own scoring chances in the NHL.
Marleau, on the other hand, can create his own scoring chances, is well versed in being the focus of defensive attention, and can still score when he is. Thus, putting him on a line with Pavelski and Clowe not only will be good for Seto, and not only shouldn’t hurt Marleau’s production too much, but should help open up Pavs and Clowe a little bit more. Then there’s two lines producing points.
When Manny gets back, put Manny, Nichol, and Ortmeyer together, and you have a 3rd line with lots of energy, an amazing defensive presence, and can also score some goals too! That’s a line that could get hot in the playoffs and really make this team hard to defend.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 11:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Good article. Unless the Sharks become a defense first team, they are definitely going to struggle against consistent offensive juggernauts like Chicago and their multi-line scoring options. Got to snap out of their offensive funk. Good idea to break up the HTML, in order to diversify the scoring?
by shark94112 on Jan 12, 2010 12:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Chicago only scored three more goals than the Sharks in 46 games. I don’t think their offense is any better than the Sharks. Maybe more spread out, but I don’t see it as better.
It’s their defense.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Chicago’s offense might have a slight leg up on San Jose considering their depth, but the defense is where they turn from “good” to “elite.”
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And that with Brian “pass-across-blue-line-on-PP-against-Detroit” Campbell as part of their roster..
/cries
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone coming into town tonight?
Obviously, I’ll be there. I’m up in the air which jersey to rock. Christms-Cheechoo 3rd, or home Thornton. I love Thornton, but I love the 3rd as well.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 12:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Apropos of nothing
If you’re the dude who said “I like your Boucher jersey!” around the parking structure on San Pedro before the Red Wings game, I’m way sorry that I didn’t return the love. My brain was in three separate places right then and it wasn’t until we got to the end of the block that I realized someone had said something about Boucher that I hadn’t immediately returned with overwhelming enthusiasm.
by cerise on Jan 12, 2010 1:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It wasn't me
But we can make out anyways.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 3:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am really excited for this game tonight. Phoenix has played us really tough all year and this should be a great challenge on the 2nd night of a back to back. Any word on the lineup for tonight’s game yet?
by sharks in oc on Jan 12, 2010 3:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
WTC has been silent, but I assume he’ll squeeze in an update before the game?
It probably stays the same, with the lone exception being Greiss between the pipes.
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Jan 12, 2010 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I actually hate playing Coyotes because of their damn Tippett trap and because Bryzgalov kills all my hopes so easily.
by Ivano27 on Jan 12, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Greiss a given?
After not seeing nabby once down here, and this making it a Greiss trick, I might as well get myself a greiss third.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and wtf?
what’s it take to get some goddamn rec’s on my meth squirrel post? I soent at least thirty minutes making that. lulz
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 3:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Threats of more thread picspam?
I did forget to rec it. It was awesome.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jan 12, 2010 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I rec’d that thing last night! No one followed suit?
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I seriously want to find a way to send this to Hahn
Maybe he can pass whe word along. Better yet, maybe find it’s way to The Squirrel himself.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 4:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Randy Hahn is on Facebook. You could try sending it there — he does seem to respond to people.
by xarexerax on Jan 12, 2010 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Link me
I’m new to facebook and terrible at it. And my s/n is joelvinson408
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 4:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm off to the game tonight, with Sarah palin mask in my back pocket
Hat trick for the Squirrel! I don’t need no stinkin’ Nabby! If he won’t play for me in Phoenix, he can go screw himself! Go Team Teeth!
( drunken postgame report to follow)
Have fun, kids. I know I will.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 4:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why can’t it ever be “Leach in, Huskins out”? The coaching staff seems to really really love Huskins. I don’t get it.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the exact same thing.
by sharks in oc on Jan 12, 2010 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
According to McLellan in this instance it’s specifically because he wants Demers to watch this game from the press box. He feel’s it’s an important part of developing young players to be able to watch a game from the box a few times.
He’s the coach, so I won’t complain. At least he didn’t get shipped off to Stockton or Worcester.
by Evilducks on Jan 12, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True. At least he’ll get to watch the game rather than fly across the country, or drive down to Stockton in the rain.
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooo
I WANT THE SQUIRREL NOW GODAMMIT
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 4:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh and PS
bye. Elvis post the palin mask ti piss off everyone else. And rec my fanpost. It’ll make me happy when I come home shitfaced.
Go Sharks!
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jan 12, 2010 4:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Off-topic
But if you haven’t seen it yet, take a look at Purdy’s bullshit.
Fear the Fin: "C'mon Drew, we're going streaking!" - Randy Hahn, 12/31/09
"Say whatever the fuck you want!" - Danny Miller, 1/9/10
by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Jan 12, 2010 5:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
People still read the Merc for Sharks coverage?
I mean, I’ll read Pollack online, but thats about it…
Sometimes the impossible can become possible if you're AWESOME!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jan 12, 2010 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping
This link works. My masterpiece, such as it is for a man of little artistic ability.
Fear the Fin: "C'mon Drew, we're going streaking!" - Randy Hahn, 12/31/09
"Say whatever the fuck you want!" - Danny Miller, 1/9/10
by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Jan 12, 2010 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice
You captured his “Jabba the Hutt wearing as ascot” vibe…
by Section223 on Jan 12, 2010 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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