News and notes across the National Hockey League
by Mr. Plank on Oct 11, 2010 11:50 PM PDT
in NHL News
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PrintAs the majority of us pay attention to Greiss Watch 2010 this morning, here are a few thoughts on some of the happenings in the NHL over the last couple days.
James Wisniewski thinks Sean Avery sucks
In a game against the New York Rangers on Monday, former Anaheim Duck James Wisniewski took a post-whistle opportunity to show Sean Avery just how he feels about him. I think it's safe to say this one probably won't blow over with the league:
While there's no precedent here for Colin Campbell to work off of (as if that's stopped him from making confusing and inconsistent rulings before), you have to figure the NHL will step in and make an example out of Wisniewksi in order to avoid these types of obscene gestures later down the road. One game is probably what it's going to cost the 26-year old blueliner, which is completely understandable. Anything more than that is probably too severe-- anything less and you have a situation where the door remains open for other types of inflammatory gestures that have nothing to do with the game of hockey.
Give him a game and move on.
Niklas Hjalmarsson destroys Jason Pominville with a vicious hit along the boards
In the first period of Chicago's 4-3 win over the Buffalo Sabres yesterday, Buffalo was attempting to clear the puck out of the zone in order to transition up the ice. Pominville was set to receive the puck along the halfboards as Hjalmarsson flew in from the point. Then this happened:
Pominville was diagnosed with a concussion after the play, but did not require a trip to the hospital.
As we can see in the video, Pominville is in a compromised position-- his back is turned towards Hjalmarsson and he is hit from behind along the boards, which typically has been a no-no for the league's disciplinary group. Hjalmarsson was docked with a 5 minute boarding major as well as a game misconduct on the play.
However, the video is pretty clear in showing that Pominville was aware of Hjalmarsson's incoming contact, or at the very least, he is aware that contact could potentially be made. He turns his head before the hit to analyze the situation, and although the amount it takes from that glance to contact is less than a second on the game clock (i.e. the rapidly developing nature of hockey puts more responsibility on the offending party to make a rational decision compared to the offended party), Pominville did nothing in his power to avoid contact or slightly protect himself from the hit. Both individuals seem to share some of the blame for the result in my opinion.
This is not to say I condone Hjalmarsson's actions or feel he made a good decision-- his responsibility is to recognize when an opposing player is vulnerable, especially along the boards with his back turned, and light contact to separate Pominville from the puck would have been a better decision on his part. But when injuries are avoidable by both parties that is an indicator to me that Pominville could have protected himself more than he did, even when you take into account the fact that the responsibility to avoid dangerous situations lies more with the offender (Hjalmarsson) than the offended (Pominville).
I bet this nets Hjalmarsson somewhere in the two game range-- the NHL will likely want to avoid handing out dual one game sentences for Wisniewski and Hjalmarsson on the same day considering the extent of the injuries (aesthetic vs. the vicious nature of blindside hits that cause head injuries). Hjalmarsson didn't target the head, so that rule is unapplicable here, but he did initiate contact on a player who was in a bad position near the boards. Two games is sufficient punishment considering everything involved.
Anaheim off to a miserable start
Great stuff to see.
As Earl Sleek of Battle of California has chronicled extensively, the Anaheim Ducks are playing some pretty lousy hockey right now, struggling immensely in just about every department imaginable. Here's some updated statistics I threw together for their first three games, but be sure to check out BoC in the coming days as I'm sure Sleek will be crunching some numbers in between hiding everything with a sharp point in his house before Anaheim plays Vancouver on Wednesday:
As Sleek so eloquently stated, "I totally remember attending a day of this year's Ducks training camp, yet there's no evidence I can see that it ever happened."
Almost enough to bring a tear to your eye eh?
I think it's safe to renounce atheism as a legitimate belief system. There's no doubt in my mind God does exist, and he is doing his best to restore order to this wicked world which we live in.
Go Sharks.
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You had to give us a Hammer highlight!
He could have been ours! Now I remember why I was so upset this summer
"Everybody had a part in this. As you can see, our fans love this. And we love them. And bring on the next team." -Joe Thornton
by waive kent huskins on Oct 12, 2010 12:21 AM PDT reply actions
Happy birthday to me! Thanks god for the awesome b-day present of the Ducks being the worst team in “professional” hockey, for at least the first week. I’m fairly certain our AHL team could beat them if they continue to play like that.
Listening to Hayward try to paint rosey pictures on it during the game is absolutely priceless.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Happy Birthday fellow Libra!
F*CK THE DUCKS!!!!!
You wanna do this? LETS GO!
THERE'S BLOOD.... IN THE WATER!
Happy birthday dude. Mine was 3 days ago. October is the greatest.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
by sharks in oc on Oct 12, 2010 7:47 AM PDT up reply actions
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ED!!!!
Libras rule ;)
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Us Libras are the best. Happy Birthday!
by JenLovesHockey on Oct 12, 2010 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Thanks all
Happy b-day to you other October folk as well.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Happy Bday from another fellow libra :-)
But late september it is for me
Where the hell are all these Libras coming from? I don’t hardly know any Libras outside FTF…!
by JenLovesHockey on Oct 13, 2010 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Haha, apparently half the blog was born in October. Happy bday dude.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions
January is a cold month
Parents need to stay warm
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
OH EW! TMI.
I was adopted. Because there is no way in hell my parentals mashed it up to get me…sick. If only that kind of denial worked :P
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
I was born June 6th. My mom’s 18th bday was Sept 3rd, 9 months 3 days before I was born. I calculated that when I was way young. Let me tell you, knowing what your mother did to celebrate her 18th birthday doesn’t do wonders for growing up normally.
(among other things)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
I just turned the big 2-6
and let me tell you I’m still in denial…no way, no how am I a production of those two freaks…ever…hahahha!
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Bow chika wow wow!
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
James Wisniewski....
Telling it like it is.
You wanna do this? LETS GO!
THERE'S BLOOD.... IN THE WATER!
Avery is correct tho – if he did this, he would be sent to rehab. So will be interesting to see what happens.
/Avery fan
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
I still find it hilarious that players are suspended for hand gestures like this or slashing a finger across a throat but it’s perfectly legal to actually punch the other player in the throat.
Don’t get me started on Avery, that suspension and rehab stint were so far out of whack on the punishment scale that I don’t even know where to begin. Matt Cooke may have ended Savard’s career and he got NOTHING and Avery made a joke that is tamer than 98% of the stuff said on the ice and he got indefinitely suspended and sent to rehab.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah I’m with you there in the confusion. Sloppy seconds was nothing. I don’t even try to make sense of why a suspension is handed out anymore.
Hell let them do all the hand gestures they wish, as long as they respect each other enough to not injure each other.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
I still find it hilarious that players are suspended for hand gestures like this or slashing a finger across a throat but it’s perfectly legal to actually punch the other player in the throat.
That’s why ya gotta love hockey (:
But I agree… really, as long as they’re not killing each other, its all good. You would think these guys would be more careful with each other, considering you gotta play with these guys in the future…
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
Avery deserves at least that, he’s such a jackass. Not that Wisniewski’s much better, but still.
That video cracked me up.
by JenLovesHockey on Oct 12, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
its true....
I laughed more than I found it offensive….gotta give Wisniewski points.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I wish we got the Wizzz
Not sure who is for “motherfuckers” on defense around here i forget but I would say he is one.
I wonder is wisniewski has a twitter hahaha
Meh
I loathe Sean Avery, but I feel like Wisniewski is going to become some sort of folk hero for nothing more than having the sense of humor of a 6th grader. If you want to have a go at the little $4!+, man up and punch him. Wisniewski hardly has any sort of rep as a big time player or anything. All he’s doing is running his mouth, albeit in a slightly unique way.
I’m sure crasser things are said on the ice and whatnot, but just because other wrongs don’t get suspended doesn’t mean this one should be let go. I mean, honestly, do we want to see more of this? If I did, I’d hang out in downtown bars more often. Play hockey or shut up.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Considering what is said on the ice every game, I find it retarded that stuff like this and the throat cutting gesture get suspended (if this does earn a suspension). If you want to have any sort of discipline policy that works you need consistancy.
If a player can’t intimate that another player sucks cock then that player shouldn’t be able to tell that other player that he banged said other players’ mom the night before. Punish it all or don’t punish any of it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The difference between what is said and what is gesticulated
is that for the most part, neither the crowd, nor the at home audience can really make out what is being said between players. It gets a pass because it remains in the players realm.
A publicly viewable gesture is a different story. It stops being a matter between two gentlemen and becomes something that snowballs into corrupting minors and those with weak constitutions.
I think there's a difference between banter and a gesture
If you’re making disparaging remarks as to the fidelity of one’s mother, that stays “inside the glass” to an extent. Gesturing is a bit more broadcast. That’s my main issue. And I’d find a difference between gesturing to some guy to move on or to look at the scoreboard as compared to something like a throat slash.
It’s also funny that the main spur for the discussion of throat slashing was Kovy’s “zip it” gesture to Avery. “Zip it” seems fine to me. There’s nothing all that malicious or crass about it. That seems more whatever to me.
I’d just prefer to keep the WWF crap out of hockey. If you’re going to get into it with someone, get into it. Otherwise, you’re just running your mouth like a punk.
I mean, I think we all support fighting in hockey for that reason. The vague “accountability” argument. That’s players policing themselves for making momma jokes, and it stays between the players. I do think Wisniewski’s “gesture” crosses a line.
Now, if Sean Avery wasn’t a little bitch, I think he stands up for himself there, but everyone knows he’s not going to fight unless a) he jumps someone, or b) he’s cornered and has no choice, or c) he has some “statement” to make.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Considering what is said on the ice every game, I find it retarded that stuff like this and the throat cutting gesture get suspended (if this does earn a suspension). If you want to have any sort of discipline policy that works you need consistancy.
Completely agree with the consistency part— no one in their right mind would think that the NHL is consistent in their rulings. Colin Campbell’s Wheel of Justice spins to a tune no one can quite figure out.
But to me, there’s a clear difference between the examples that you are using— the viewers experience.
In other words, what people can see on television.
If you want to sell the game to a wide variety of individuals, allowing gestures like this put a huge damper on any growth you can expect to see in the future. Imagine if every game you saw on TV had a player imitating a blowjob after a play, giving someone the middle finger, or doing a throat slash gesture. I guarantee you NBC wouldn’t be interested in televising the sport and Versus would also have their concerns about bidding on the contract— at the very least, it makes the NHL’s television contract (set to expire at the end of this season) worth far less than the $500MM they are currently looking for.
That’s the kicker here. And although the gesture doesn’t offend ol’ Libertarian me, the fact that it is newsworthy indicates that it is an issue with many others. For the sake of the League, Wisniewski gets a game and you have a precedent set which ensures the NHL protects its public image.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I would be remiss
If I didn’t acknowledge that league enforced discipline in the NHL sucks.
So, while I might make the “moral” arguments or whatever, it doesn’t change the fact that the NHL will find some way to screw it up.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
So, if a mic got too close to the ice and picked up a player conversation in a scrum, should they be accountable for that because the audience was brought in on some above PG conversation?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
So, if they had gone to commercial or zoomed in on the coaching staff, Wis would be fine?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I do see your point about the line being blurry
But I don’t think it changes the fact that wherever that line is, Wis is about 7 miles past it.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The people in the lower section can hear what they’re saying in those scrums. Do we not care about their poor sensitive ears?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Doesn’t change the fact it’s perfectly audible.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Then it's an issue of scale
10 people hearing it versus 16,000 seeing it in the arena and 500,000 people seeing it on tv
Like I said, you’re fooling yourself if you don’t think several hundred thousand people can’t pick out a close up of Clowe saying “Fuck you” to whoever he’s mixing it up with in the scrum.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Of course. But guidelines on decency only deal with the tangible. Not the unprovable in a court of law without experts in the field.
I know what he’s saying, you know what he’s saying. My 10 year old niece? My grandma? Not so much.
I’d wager your 10 year old niece doesn’t know what that motion implies. For all she knows he eats blow pops. I guarantee she figures out how to read the word “Fuck” when somebody says it before she figures out the universal blowjob motion.
Your grandma sure as hell knows what the word “fuck” looks like when somebody says it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
You're right, my Niece wouldnt know what the gesture meant
She’d ask though!
Granny on the other had doesn’t have the eyes for lip reading any more. Nor HDTV
He’s saying he eats too much candy dear.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
How do you explain this to your grandma or niece?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U3Z92SdG8c
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I dont need to explain it
They know what that is. My Niece has been doing that with my nephew for 8 years. My grandma has been doing that to my grandpas for even longer
Your niece throws haymakers at your brother and vice versa? CPS may need to make a visit.
Also, your gradma was doing that other thing to your grandpa a lot longer than this thing.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Developmentally fighting is something we do before we even know what we're doing
Lewd gestures? That takes a little carnal knowledge.
Are you telling me people shouldn’t be offended by Lewd Gestures?
I’m telling you they should be far less offended by something people enjoy doing to each other than by watching somebody get beaten nearly unconscious.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I’ve been playing with my penis since before I could walk. That comes fairly naturally too.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This whole argument sprang up over consistency and the lunacy that it is okay to punch a man in the neck but not visibly threaten to hurt his neck.
I take it your perfectly fine with neck slashing motions based on your arguments above. In fact my nefew has known how to swing weapons at his playmates since he was 2. Should hockey sticks be fine as a weapon in fights? You seem to be of the opinion that all violence is fine because we know how to do that from a young age, but god forbid people make sex jokes.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This whole argument sprang up over consistency and the lunacy that it is okay to punch a man in the neck but not visibly threaten to hurt his neck.
It might be good to clarify something here then.
I think those of us in favor of Wisniewski’s suspension choose to live in a world where the NHL gets discipline right, where Matt Cooke was suspended for the year.
Again, NHL’s discipline = crap. So, the whole argument is basically academic. The issue then becomes whether you SHOULD suspend Wisniewski, not whether he WILL be I think.
To that end, I think we still disagree. I want him to be suspended, I gather you don’t. But even that may be academic to.
Do you think Wisniewski should in any way/shape/form be deterred from such behavior? Whether it’s a fine or a 2 minute minor for unsportsmanlike behavior or just a warning from the ref?
That’s probably where everyone here actually differs. The rest is details.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think if we go that far we need to ban clear verbiage, caught on camera, of a similar nature.
Gesturing that a player sucks cock isn’t any different that hearing that player say he sucks cock.
Punish them both equally and I’m fine.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
You do have a good point there
But I think refs do send people to the box for saying nasty stuff on the ice (probably isnt called as much as it should be), but it’s treated the same way that a trip or a hook would be.
I think that’s fine between hockey players, the line should be drawn when it brings in the audience.
Side note: we would get penalized all the time for swearing on course while ski racing. There was definitely an invisible line we understood about what was too much. We also understood there was a big difference in swearing at the top of the course where there was no one but coaches and judges, versus swearing at the bottom or in the finish where tons of people could hear you. It’s probable that these players know and understand where they can be heard and where they can not.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
When they start penalizing chirping the games done for.
by red triangle on Oct 13, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions
Apples and Oranges
Fighting in hockey has been done to death.
Lewd Gestures is a different subject entirely. Sex has never played any part in any modern sporting event outside of cheerleaders and advertising.
You realize that your own exemptions nullify your statement right? Crass humor has been a part of sports as long as sexy advertising of it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Crass humor between the players
maybe, but certainly not anything that could be disseminated by someone sitting in section 220 row 19
I’ve been in section 220, I guarantee you hear plenty of crass humor, especially by the 3rd period when your neighbors have had 4 rounds of beer.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Nothing the NHL can do about that
Professionalism and sportsmanship have nothing do with the behavior of the folks in the stands.
Crass humor is ingrained in the culture of the sport. Kids growing up in the sport are exposed to it, nearly every large gathering of those watching the sport involves it. It’s as big a part of the sport as is booing opponents you don’t like. It’s never going to change. I don’t understand why we pretend it’s not there.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
If that's the case then it really is a sad state of affairs
I played organized sports from age 5 to 18 and never once did I witness any kind of crass humor. Sure there was oneupmanship and taunting, but never of a sexual nature.
I played soccer and tennis. Crass humor was fairly common between players and some drunk spectators, especially in high school.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I thunk the difference is 'cause we're 'mericans
I played tennis and was on the swim team trust me there was a lot of nasty humor stuff going on
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe it's a cultural thing
We certainly didn’t have anything of a coarse nature when I was playing Rugby, Soccer, or Swimming in England.
Yeah… In the US and Canada implying that your opponent is gay is the equivalent of telling them they’re bad at sports.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I guess the reason we are more reserved
is because the chances of getting a kicking after the game are much higher in England.
I kinda think it was
IMO subjects in that matter was always so taboo that when we knew we’d get away with it we definitely abused the priviledge. Coach was always like hey hey guys stop…and we’d giggle and move along but trust there were many below the belt suck it gestures when adults weren’t looking.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I think these are symptoms of society in general, non-specific to sports.
I don’t think penalizing the acts in sports is the right way to solve the problem. does that mean they shouldn’t be penalized, no, not necessarily, but if you want to fix the problem you have to go a bit deeper than that.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Have you never seen Slap Shot for fucks sake?
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 3:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Of course
I must be painting myself as some kind of prude. Far from it.
There is a time and a place for Lewdness, I actually dont mind the gestures! But I dont think it’s good for the sport.
You kinda did...surprised and dissapointed me a bit.
:P but glad you’re really not.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
You've read my FB/Tweets right?
The you know I’m definitely not any kind of moral compass!
I can tell you my wife is very disappointed with my conduct on social networking sites and also whilst I’m driving!
I KNOW
that’s why i’m so shocked you’re taking that side of the fence!
I figured if you had any sort of moral compass you would not have any affiliation with me in the least hahahha mama calls me her little sailor :P
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
speaking of which
where are them jokes anyway…who can I follow? My days seriously lack that kind of humor.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Must be hard
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
TWHS?
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I follow a bunch of folks
The good penis stuff all falls under Viz. A lot of it might not make sense to Americans because of the odd cultural references.
VizLetterBocks
vizcomic
VizTopTips
conanobrienswyf
pomranz
BRB!!!
Oh and I can’t read what you’re righting you’re too far to the right…ouch :P
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
* writing....
fail.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Cursing and being lewd is just as ingrained in the culture if hockey as is fighting.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 4:44 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I dont doubt it
I only have a problem with lewdness when those that dont wish to be exposed to it, get exposed to it.
I should add
I was not in favor of the suspension for the throat slashing gesture, but it very clearly states that those gestures are not allowed by the NHL.
would you judge me if I said hell yes?
just for the sake of the argument so i can be in the right here cause I rarely am?
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously – I’ve sat behind the glass and you really can’t hear much. It’s fairly well insulated.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
by ninakix on Oct 12, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
A little better… But I hadn’t generally noticed swearing. When a fight’s going on, there are usually so many other things going on you don’t notice. You see a lot of roughing and pushing around, you can tell heated words are being exchanged, but whether that’s swearing or not is hard to say.
I mean, I couldn’t imagine any of us would NOT want to see the post-whistle trash talking and verbal sparring.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
Also, I’m not retarded… At least every game I can see coaches and players mouthing “Fuck you” or “mother fucker” or some variation on the work fuck.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Then here is my idea
All players must play with a medieval style helmet on. Perhaps they can pick up some of those at Medieval Times and put the teams logo on it.
Here's my idea
How about we pretend a sport as brutal and violent as hockey doesn’t have a purely preschool audience.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This.
I have to agree with Evilducks in all of this. Shit happens on the ice. It’s the nature of the sport.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not saying it doesnt
I’m only saying there has to be a line between the Tangible and Intangible.
Players can say what they want on the ice. The glass curtain separates their world from ours. When a player does something to compromise that glass curtain then the league needs to step in.
Here’s a good example. If I’m on the street and mouth the word Motherfucker at a cop driving past it’s a lot different than if I were say the word mother fucker to a cop walking past.
Not to get all philosophical here. But, I think it’s indicative of our society which is way more sensitive to sexuality then violence. Hockey can be pretty frikkin’ brutal. (See the last Ivanans fight…)
I doubt anybody mature enough to get his gesture was bothered by it. I hear and use worse language in the stands BTW…
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Not to get all philosophical here. But, I think it’s indicative of our society which is way more sensitive to sexuality then violence. Hockey can be pretty frikkin’ brutal. (See the last Ivanans fight…)
Completely, and that’s the way it has been in America for some time. But that doesn’t mean this should get a pass.
As I mentioned below and above, I’m not arguing from a personal standpoint— I tune into hockey no matter what happens because the sport is fucking awesome. But that doesn’t mean the general public would. That’s the issue I think is most relevant here.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
So fine them or something, but suspensions? really?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think a fine is more appropriate than a suspension. And I’d bet that’s all he gets.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure, if it stops the act from occurring. I don’t care as long as the act is stopped.
My viewpoint is that it would do more harm than good for the League’s image/ratings over the long haul. Anything that curtails that is completely okay.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I never said NOTHING should happen. The NHL should have standards.
But I think it’s hypocritical to say sexual gestures are suspension worthy while we allow players to knock each other out cold in fights and with head shots in the game.
And I don’t think there is any evidence that lewd and offensive behavior of players lowers public interest. There is more evidence of the opposite. See Ron Artest, Chad Ocho-Cinco, T. Owens, etc.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
When people start cheering for BJ Gestures like they do for fights, your wish will be granted!
Start a new trend next time someone makes a BJ gesture, make sure and cheer them on as loud as you can. Perhaps you could shout:
“I Love BJ’s, Yeah!”
Not sure what you’re referring to here.
I never said I approve of the actions. You’re getting a little personal with that comment and I don’t appreciate it.
I’m simply arguing that the league is inconsistent when it comes to what is appropriate behavior on the ice.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 2:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
My reason is that sex and fighting are two different things
Fighting has been a part of hockey since the league began, Sex has never been a part of hockey! I dont think hockey players have ever even seen Sex in the city.
I just find it odd that people put sex and fighting in the same context.
The rest of my comment was just about how odd it would be if we cheered for on ice sex gags like we cheer at fights
I find it interesting that you separate the two. I’m not saying that violence should be involved in the sex itself (though many people go that far), but shows of masculinity and fighting over a prospective mate has been part of nearly every species on the planet for eons (or 6000 years, depending on belief systems). There are reasons why really strong men and athletes are attractive to those of the opposite (or occasionally same) sex.
I don’t know what Sex in the City has to do with this. I’d wager nearly all of them* have seen pornography and have had sex.
*Except of course Tommy Wingels, who still thinks girls have cooteys.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I'm sure most hockey players have had sex
just probably not whilst they were being ambassadors for the sport in front of 17,596 paying punters on the ice.
As far as sex and fighting are linked in the modern era, I think you might be right the content of Jersey Shore is anything to go off.
Yeah, that’s pretty true. The issue here seems to be that it was a sexual type of gesture, and in America, that’s a terrifying thing to people…for whatever reason. I just found the whole thing hilarious.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
totally agree with you here
1000% one of the most brutal sports out there and a little hand motion’s got eveyone’s panties in a wad….geesh! Boys will be boys…hell hockey girls will be boys let the shit fly.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
exactly!!!
there are tons of times where you can read exactly what the player said…I’m sure if W said SUCK IT we’d probably be able to see that too…so would he be punished for saying rather than graphically showing it?
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah cause Avery’s sloppy seconds really made people LESS INTERESTED…?
Try and tell me every MF’er wouldn’t have watched that game if Avery had been allowed to play… It would have literally been “must-see-TV”…
I get your point about sexual gestures and public image, but controversy and drama make people more interested not less..
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Avery was right
Hockey needs Villians. People love drama and tune in to see it. They don’t need to be outlandish, wrestling villians, but we love assholes like Pronger stealing pucks, Avery calling people sloppy seconds, etc. We want to see them on the ice.
Hell, I went to Medieval times for my Birthday and my whole group wanted to be in the Green section (the bad guy).
Seriously, if networks were so concerned about this crap would they air Jersey Shore?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, right after the show where the monkeys bang each other.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Pronger stealing pucks is one thing
Pronger is a great villain because he’s also a great hockey player. He’s entertaining to watch.
Sean Avery and his ilk are not. They’re pests who rarely get their just deserts. The refs protect him, and someone else on his team usually has to drop the gloves for him. I don’t give a rats ass about seeing him on the ice, and if he went away tomorrow, no one would notice.
If you want to cast Sidney Crosby or Alexander Ovechkin as hate-able, that’s fine. They have the game to back it up. Sean Avery does not. He might be right about the game needing heels. Whatever. I don’t think the game needs him. But people who think he’s a legitimate heel are fooling themselves. He keeps teasing everyone with the promise of having some skill, but frankly, energy guys who can score are a dime a dozen. Characters like Avery aren’t worth the baggage they come with.
And for all the hate I’m giving Avery, Wisniewski is the same to me in this situation. There is virtually no similarity between Pronger steeling pucks and Wisniewski doing whatever the hell he thought he was doing.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
So, this is a skill excuses actions debate? Ovechkin shouldn’t get punished for boarding Campbell because he’s good and can back it up. But if somebody like Nichol did it then we can toss him out of the league because anybody can fill that role on a team.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Didn't mean to imply that there's no consequences
I should be clear:
Breaking the rules, playing dirty, hitting from behind, intent to injure, those are no good at any time by any player.
What I was trying to address is the gamesmanship aspect. The more “unsportsmanlike” stuff. Outrageous goal celebrations, rude gestures, etc. etc.
Does the league need hits from behind and dirty play? No. Period.
Does the league need “pests” and “heels” whose job it is to get under the skin of the opponent? Does it need Sean Avery’s spotlight grabbing antics?
That’s more what I’m getting at. No, I don’t think it does. If you’re going to grab the spotlight, it better be because you plan on playing hockey. Why does Pronger get a pass for stealing pucks? Because he needed to fire up his team, and he managed to do it without making a dick joke. He did something that was confined to the ice. If you want to agitate, that’s the way.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Agreed, for the most part, but I think you have to have a little bit of the trash talk and the intimidation – that’s all part of sport. And just because someone is showy, no matter what level of skill they have, that’s within their right to do so. Either we don’t allow that at all, or we say we’re fine with it from anybody. IMHO, if we get rid of it, we begin chipping away of some of the raw-ness of hockey that makes it so entertaining to watch.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
I don’t see why a player that isn’t a Norris or Hart trophy candidate isn’t allowed to fire up his team. Why is it okay for Pronger to steal a puck and not Mezaros? If it helps his team he should do it, regardless of his ability to put up points.
Ovechkin pretending his stick is on fire is fine since he got 60 goals. Imagine if Shelley did it after the 2 goals he had in Philly, I’d die laughing. His team would probably get a kick out of it.
If Nichol can get under the skin of Getzlaf and make him play stupidly then great, I’d rather have Getzlaf worried about a statistically harmless player than worring about putting that puck top shelf on Niemi.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Anyone can fire up their team
I’d still say there are two things that Avery and Wisniewski are missing.
The first is keeping it on the ice. Lewd gesturing, by it’s nature, is not confined to the ice. It’s meant to be noticed.
The second is firing up your team. Honestly, a grown man pantomiming fellatio does not get me fired up about anything. Even if I were a gay man, it would fire me up about the wrong thing.
If you want to fire up your team, fine. Fire up your team. I don’t see any proof that this gesture or anything like it fires up your team.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That may not fire up your team, but to somebody other than Avery it could get in their head. Maybe they lose focus and think of how much they want to kill Wisnewski and less about the state of the hockey game. It gives that team an advantage. I get why guys like Avery and Nichol exist. They’re there to piss off the other team. I hate Ott and Tootoo and Avery, etc… but I love Nichol, because he’s ours! He provides a function that helps his team, something a lot of analysts have said this team was missing for a long time.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
True, but there are other ways to get in other player’s heads that are not potentially offensive to the thousands of fans watching the hockey game. Celebrate a goal, engage in some verbal trash talk, that’s all fair game. But don’t do something that’s going to hurt the league or the sport.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
Fair enough. I just want consistency and reason. Why is a gesture like that going to hurt the sport as much as possibly taking out one of Buffalo’s top scorers? Fines are fine for this kind of behavior, hurt their pocket book (especially the lower paid guys) and they’ll knock it off quick.
The throat slashing thing is still hilarious to me. Nothing lewd about it and all it is is threatening to do something they can legally do within the course of a game. Should Nolan have been suspended for calling his goal in the all star game? He threatened to do something he’s allowed to do.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, I agree about the penalty thing – that’s messed up. I tend to err on believing the dirty hits penalties should be a bit more severe, but whatever. The throat slashing thing is a little weird to me as well, I don’t know if that’s the call I would have made, but that rule is old, so maybe it was perceived as more offensive when it was made.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
Getting in their head is fine too
I’ve yet to see Nichol have to resort to absurd antics to do it though. Tootoo either for that matter. Tootoo manages to be a nuisance while playing hockey. Avery is a nuisance when he’s NOT playing hockey.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think I see what you’re getting at.
Avery has a big mouth, talks a lot of trash off the ice, but doesn’t do much to back it up on the ice.
Pronger has a big mouth, talks a lot of trash off the ice, and will beat you on the ice (literally and figuratively)
You’re not a fan of the first group.
I like players with personality, they’re going to ride the line and there should be punishments for them. They should be relative though. Avery and Wisnewski now are punished far more than they should be considering the punishments handed out on things like the Hjalmarsson hit.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think we need a separate wheel of justice for non-violent acts
I think a fine and some Community Service would do the trick.
We're in complete agreement on hits to the head
My “moralist” arguments are all contingent upon the NHL having a real discipline policy.
In terms of the mouth, my issue is more that Avery actively doesn’t play hockey to make himself a pest. Nichol, Tootoo, heck, before Joe got here, even Cheechoo was a pest. And they did it by playing hockey.
Morti made the argument about “inside the glass.” If you want to be a pest, fine. They serve their purpose. But do it by playing hockey. Avery becomes a pest by not playing hockey. And Wisniewski wasn’t playing hockey when he tried to taunt Avery. You want to punish him? Keep him off the score sheet and win the game. He tends to do poorly when he’s losing.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Alright. So compromise time. Something should be done to curtail that kind of behavior. It should be far less severe than is currently occurring in the league. Avery may not have much value, but I think Wisnewski is an important part of the Islander defense (especially without Streit). I think a fine is all there should be.
I’m never going to agree that neck slashing should be punishable… again, you’re threatening to do something you’re allowed to do. It usually occurs when the refs are breaking them up, so they can’t actually perform the act they’d like at that moment.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I dunno...
neck slashing to me means I’m going to kill you/get you back…in which you may not mean but that’s like serious business…but a little sexual hand motion isn’t like I’m going to kill you if anything the other dude’s gonna like it…or not…but its not a threat.
I’m enjoying this debate too much btw….I need to work. :P
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
“I’m going to kill you” rarely means what it says. Especially in this context. I don’t believe for a second any of those players ever implied that they were going to hunt down and stab them with a skate blade or shoot them. They wanted to kick their ass and that’s how it was taken.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
well Hammer crashed into the dude without threat of the hand motion
and got the same punishment as another hand motion. Not fair.
But I know what you mean no one really means KILL the dude but retalitation might be coming around the corner. Otherwise I side with you.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
The criteria should be different for Physical v. unsportsmanlike conduct
I think we are all in agreement that it’s ludicrous that you could get the same amount of suspension time for simulating Oral sex as driving someones head into the glass.
I think Physical infractions need to have longer suspensions. I also think we should do away with giving people leniency for their first offense.
agreed with the criteria should be differentiated between the two incidents
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to be clear, I thought the length of the Avery suspension was ridiculous— he didn’t deserve the treatment he got from the League. I’m not arguing from that basis.
Short term ratings bumps due to intrigue have nothing to do with long-term market viability. If the reputation of the League is at stake (due to throat slash gestures, blowjob gestures etc.), it shouldn’t matter if one incident causes a ratings bump on one night if it causes a decrease in viewership over a given amount of time. That’s what made Avery (and to some degree, Wisniewski) so intriguing— it was outside of the norm, and therefore, received a lot of attention.
But if that becomes the norm, it becomes stale. And if it becomes stale, and turns off x amount of viewers in the process, all of a sudden it isn’t newsworthy anymore. All it becomes is just a lewd gesture that is commonplace during games— one that reduces the general public’s interest in the sport.
If you feel that a blowjob gesture, middle finger, or throat slash every game would bring in more viewers than it takes out, then that’s fine. I think it would do more harm than good for the League’s image, and consequently, it’s television ratings.
ED brought up the point that if the camera doesn’t catch him, no harm no foul. I agree with that. But if that’s allowed in the future (as in it’s completely fine to make these types of gestures), then it will eventually be caught on camera. That’s where the issue lies. Allowing this now makes it okay in the future, and in the future, it will be caught on camera again.
I’m no saint of moral authority— I’d tune into a hockey game if this shit was going on because I love the sport. But if you’re trying to expand your reach amongst the American public, I doubt that allowing gestures like these to occur will benefit ratings more than they hurt them.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
You make some good points but… I kinda want to sarcastically ask you if you’ve ever actually been to a live hockey game though? The language in the stands is no different and had always been so with hockey.
It’s no different in other sorts too. I remember the Giants at one point had to make a “family friendly” section at Candlestick.
And I’m not arguing the right or wrong of the actions. I am however not convinced that this type of behavior would affect the popularity of hockey… If anything I think it might help make it more popular.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Very fair point about the stands
But, there’s also always that argument about “classy” fans versus not.
MSG gets a bad rap because Ranger fans have exactly the mentality you’d expect of Ranger fans. Do we WANT that to be the norm?
If you’re suspending Wisniewski, it’s because you don’t want his behavior to be the norm. Which Plank has admirably outlined I think.
You can be like me and be all fussed about it, or you could be like various commenters to this post and not care. All of us are going to watch hockey anyway, because we love the game.
Would it change our love of the game if lewd gestures and more open and graphic disrespect came into the game? I tend to think so. Part of what makes hockey so great is that hockey players aren’t total douche bags (well, Correy Perry notwithstanding). I’d prefer to see the NHL NOT become the NBA or the NFL.
Part of the mystique of the league is the Western Canadian mentality of shutting up and playing. I kinda like that. And I think preserving some of that will keep the league healthier.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Your argument Elvis is much better in my opinion because you are outlining what would be better for the league and how most of us DO feel. (I agree that he crossed a line btw.)
But Plank’s point that the general masses. AKA non-hockey fans, would be turned off to hockey because of that behavior has no merit, IMHO.
The popularity of the NFL and NBA are perfect examples.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 2:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
The NFL outlawed the throat slash gesture in 1999, and I’m sure they would do the same if a player looked at another player and did the same thing Wisniewski did.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
And I’m not arguing the right or wrong of the actions. I am however not convinced that this type of behavior would affect the popularity of hockey… If anything I think it might help make it more popular.
That’s totally cool, and I see where you’re coming from. I disagree, and there’s probably nothing either of us could say that would change our views on the subject of beneficial for the NHL vs. detrimental for the NHL.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Yeah. I’m just playing devils advocate too cause I think there are some inconsistencies.
Personally I don’t appreciate that type of behavior. If I was a dad and someone did that in front of my daughter, I’d be pissed.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 2:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Apparently the League agrees with you all because they just handed down a 2 game suspension!!! Wow !!!
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 2:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Are we saying Wisniewski is getting the same number of games penalized as Hjalmarsson might get? that’s ridiculous.
GO SHARKS. Happy 10-11" season guys!
Sex Joke == Potentially Career ending injury.
Thanks Campbell!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
exactly
can’t argue with you today ED
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Just as a funny side note
I bet the 2 games is partially in part due to Avery commenting that nothing will happen because it wasn’t him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
haha :P
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 12, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
<a href="http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1MNA0_n32Hc&v=1MNA0_n32Hc&gl=US" > I think we might be in denial a bit about the language on the ice…
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the look on the ref’s face when Wisniewski makes the gesture. He just kind of looks down and is said like Charlie Brown…
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Surprise and Relief
I am surprised that no one claimed him, but am relieved (to a point) as he’ll be great at Worcester along with Stalock.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
I think it’s safe to renounce atheism as a legitimate belief system. There’s no doubt in my mind God does exist, and he is doing his best to restore order to this wicked world which we live in.
If this trend for the Ducks continue, I might agree with you. But as it is, I think it’s just an awful (awful awful) fluke they are going thru.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
by Angy on Oct 12, 2010 10:32 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Angy, the voice of reason on FTF
:-)
by JenLovesHockey on Oct 12, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Nonsense
I fully expect the Ducks to go 0-82 and be outscored a combined 328-54
The top line will have combined stats of 0g 0a -328 1476 PIMs
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We can only hope. And if that happens, you’ll see me willingly go into church … :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Doubt it.
Their D sucks real bad… They will obviously win some games but I’ll bet they finish no higher than 12th in the conference. I think Dallas might be better.
Plus it’s actually the result of all of Sleek’s shit talking. ;)
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:10 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think I'd rather believe
that this is the real Ducks team and that all the good times they’ve had were the real fluke.
I don't know...
I saw the hit and don’t really think Pominville was in that good of a position to really do anything about it. Sure, he made have seen him in the peripherals a couple tenths of a second before his head his the plexiglass, but that’s definitely not enough time to react to an encroaching defender. Hjalmarsson definitely deserves what he gets and should probably get a game or two.
Although, I’m not going to lie, I wouldn’t mind seeing Byfuglien taking a few shots like that on Saturday? Am I bitter? No, not at all….
- "You have very lucky dishes, Mr. Simpson. He says he will banish dirt to the land of wind and ghost."
- "Remember...we parked in the Itchy Lot."
- "The frogurt is also cursed."
Agreed.
I was watching the game on Center Ice last night, and when the hit happened, my initial reaction was that it was pretty dirty. And then Pominville didn’t get up. Yeah, he saw Hammer coming…but he also knows the rules about hitting people in the back, charging into someone’s numbers, etc. And he had less than a second, and was trying to make a play on the puck. In said situation, you are supposed to use your body to shield the puck and try to make a play, and the defender is NOT supposed to come flying in at full speed and hit them square in the back and send them into the board. That’s just dangerous, undisciplined play. I have to put this entirely on Hjalmarsson. He came in from miles away, saw exactly what he was doing, and did it anyways.
In these types of situations, I’m mostly along the lines that the book should be thrown at the offending player. Pominville is going to be out for a while with that concussion, most likely. Hjalmarsson should be out for a while too for injuring him on a dirty hit. It won’t happen, but I wish it would. You’d see far fewer dangerous and dirty hits if the penalty for severely injuring someone had some teeth.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I hesitate to blame the victim in anything
I mean, does anyone REALLY want to be crushed into the boards from behind? Is a power play really worth risking career ending injuries? Or else just more bumps and bruises over the course of an 82 game season?
I get that these guys are warriors, and there are a few guys who’ll do things like that, but it’s not like suspensions are ever going to make hockey a softer game. It’s still 12 guys on the ice who are armed and armored and have testosterone. I don’t think a few suspensions are going to take away open ice hits or checking, just weed out the more questionable hits.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think Hammer was mostly in the wrong here too.
I don’t like the argument that claims Pomenvile should have moved? That’s a little like saying if someone reaches their arm back to punch you in the face and you don’t duck, it’s your fault…?
I thought Hammer hit him in a vulnerable position and way too hard in that given situation.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:22 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Agree that it’s dirty, and agree that it deserves two games. But I don’t think it deserves anything more than that based off what I wrote in this article.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Welll...
I feel good and bad about the ducks being this bad now…
Pro: I hate the ducks with all the passion in the world.
Con: This limits our competition which I don’t really like.
We took 5 out of 6 from them last year, if they keep this up it will be 6 out of 6…
I think it evens out really. Kings and Yotes are gonna keep us plenty busy in the Pacific. Hawks, Wings and Canucks are all tough opponents too.
I actually think this year is the first time in a few we could actually drop the division title.
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 1:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
If Chicago hadn't have matched Hjalmarsson, then this wouldn't have happened.
Or at least that is what I like to think.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 12, 2010 3:27 PM PDT reply actions
If he was
Do you think Chicago would call up Buttercrunch to be their new GM?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
He'd get them out of their cap crunch real quick.
By trading Kane and Toews for Ales Hemsky and then signing Kyle Wellwood.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 12, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions
He left the Blackhawks for the Sharks
Jerk!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That's ridiculous.
The wheel of justice is at it again, folks.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 12, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Ridiculous...
Wiz’s antics were potentially a little out of line (I’m on the side that thinks it was fine and not as bad as most of the shit that is said on the ice during a game). But if they needed to suspend him to make a point, fine, whatever. But for that to get the same suspension as Hjalmarsson’s ridiculously vicious hit that took out one of Buffalo’s top scorers for probably a while (Savard is still trying to come back from a concussion he suffered last year)…that’s just obscene.
If you feel the need to give Wiz 2 games for that gesture, Hjalmarsson deserved at least 6.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
A six game suspension might actually curb the behavior
So let’s not do that. Let’s just give a few games and say we did something!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That’s exactly it, though. If you really started punishing the dangerous hits that cause brain injuries, they’d stop happening. It wouldn’t curb the physicalness and violence in the sport…but it would curb the stupid, dangerous stuff.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Although hockey will never be ballet on ice...
That doesn’t mean that it needs to be a demolition derby at the same time. Give the players a chance to play and give them a chance to do it tough and fairly.
- "You have very lucky dishes, Mr. Simpson. He says he will banish dirt to the land of wind and ghost."
- "Remember...we parked in the Itchy Lot."
- "The frogurt is also cursed."
by Alex Houston on Oct 12, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, call me unsportsmanlike but I thoroughly enjoyed what Wis did. I think he was essentially acting as spokesman for most of the hockey world just then.
..:Fear The Fin:..
by OtherKid on Oct 12, 2010 5:33 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Oh, I agree, I loved it. I’m mostly just irritated that Hammer’s suspension wasn’t longer.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Well...
I suppose I’ll drop Thomas Greiss from my fantasy team.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
Now you have to change your team name. Although, my team is currently named after Ovechkin, and I don’t have OV (yet…), so maybe not.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 12, 2010 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, did you actually have Greiss on your fantasy team? LOL
by JenLovesHockey on Oct 13, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
We debated the fuck out this topic...
Just to recap:
Plank thinks that Wish’s actions would potentially deter future hickey fans.
Elvis thinks it’s bad behavior and shouldn’t be allowed because of the honor and respect present in the NHL.
ED and I feel that it’s hypocritical to compare lewd behaviors to serious injury causing play.
Morti… Well he’s kind if a perv … and thrn pretty much everything from there turned into penis jokes and lots TWSS’s…
Did I miss anything?
by skilletboy on Oct 12, 2010 10:05 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Buttercrunch would be a better GM
That’s about it.
Very succinct.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Wiz should get maybe a fine, I but then again I thought Cuthbertgate was drastically overblown
And sorry Plank, but I heartily disagree with the analysis of Pominville. Players are no longer landing big hits to intimidate the competition, or to establish a physical tone or make a play, but to make Sportscenter. And the absolute natural reaction of a human being when confronted with impact is to turn away from it to protect the face and eyes. It is unnatural to do anything else in that situation.
The onus has to be on the hitting player. I think the league should come down hard on Hjalmarrson, at least 5 games. But I expect 1 or 2 games.
He already got 2 earlier today so you were spot on. :)
..:Fear The Fin:..
by OtherKid on Oct 12, 2010 10:51 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
At the risk of being political
I’d offer one final thought on the Wisniewski suspension.
We can argue a whole lot about whether he was being funny or crass or whether it’s part of the game or whatnot.
To me, there’s one final thing underpinning the whole incident. Wisniewski was basically trying to insult Sean Avery by implying he’s gay.
We can argue particulars about how he did it and whether he’s right.
If you agree with Plank in that the suspension was meant to discourage such behavior, I still really strongly believe it was the right move by the NHL because it might serve to remove some of the inherent homophobic overtones from sports.
Given some recent events: the six suicides of bullied gay teens, the hate crime gang torture incident in New York City, the Prop 8 cases, Don’t Ask Don’t Tell being debated, National Coming Out Day, and so on and so forth, equal rights and bullying are in the news. I’d like to think the NHL is some how coming down on the right side of the issue.
Brent Sopel participated in the Chicago Pride parade with his family and the Stanley Cup, Brendan Burke was able to come out, and his death served as sort of a rallying cry for acceptance in all levels of hockey.
I don’t know if the NHL had gay rights in mind when handing out the suspension, but I really strongly believe that it’s a good thing, even if it’s unintentional. That should be part of the message.
I realize this is a very heated topic, with a lot of political, religious and cultural implications. I don’t mean to offend anyone. I just thought I’d share that bit of perspective.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
This edges towards hate crime punishments, which piss me off to no end. I don’t understand why somebody should be punished more because he was racist, sexist, anti-gay, whatever. If it’s a crime, then it’s a crime and the motivation shouldn’t matter. If a guy commits assualt it shouldn’t matter if he hated the other person because he was gay or if he just cut him off in traffic.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Very fair point about hate crime punishments
When it comes to prosecution, I don’t see the need for hate-crime assault to be any different from garden variety assault. The only real need I see for classifications comes on the investigation end, where classifying certain crimes as hate crimes helps the police or other authorities investigate because they track hate speech and such. On the prosecution side, I don’t see the need for anything to be different. Wrong is wrong, period.
As to how it pertains here, I’m not sure. If the league is “sending a message,” they should be clear about that message. The optimist in me wants to think part of the message is that this sort of gesture crosses a line and won’t be tolerated.
But, then I remember Colin Campbell is running things and so it probably just means he had a good day at the dart board.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
A concept we call
“Hate Crime Laws, A Savage Hypocrisy.”
by CloweMyWord! on Oct 13, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
i think what everyone means is james wisniewski deserves a high five
by withintheruins14 on Oct 13, 2010 9:25 AM PDT reply actions
AHL on NHL
Let’s hope Worcester is a TBD.
I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that, oh crap I quit drinking.
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