Sharks get shutout in Calgary, lose 4-0
by Mr. Plank on Oct 24, 2010 8:44 PM PDT
in Sharks Game Recaps
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PrintThe biggest question for me coming into tonight's game was how the third line of Jamie McGinn, Logan Couture, and Torrey Mitchell would be able to handle a much more physical team than the likes of Colorado and Edmonton. Their speed through the neutral zone is unquestionable, but while their forechecking abilities have looked phenomenal in the last two games together, playing the Flames in Calgary is a much different physical test than anything they've run up against thus far.
As it turns out, they didn't have enough time to even give viewers a glimpse of how they would handle that challenge.
Calgary pounced on the Sharks early and quickly, scoring four goals in the first twelve minutes of the first period to end the tilt before it even had a chance to get interesting. Rene Borque had a pair of goals for the Flames, with Jarome Iginla and Craig Conroy adding a tally of their own. Miika Kiprusoff had his second shutout of the season, and the Sharks fell back to .500 in regulation on the year.
Rene Borque opened up the scoring for Calgary with a great feed from Niklas Hagman through the box on the power play. Some pretty basic passing on the half boards opened the Sharks defense up wider than the holes in Charlie Kelly's jean shorts, and the cross-ice feed was too quick for Sharks goaltender Antti Niemi to get over.
The second goal came off a pretty innocent looking rush up the ice following a Ryane Clowe bid that was deflected out of the Sharks offensive zone. Alex Tanguay corralled the puck as he crossed the blueline, making a nifty drop pass to Jarome Iginla who blasted a shot past Niemi. It was another example of Niemi's struggles to make saves on anything over the Sharks crest on his chest. All of a sudden the Sharks were down by a pair and struggling to find their rhythm.
But Calgary wouldn't let up.
The Flames continued their onslaught on the helpless Niemi in first period, born of shoddy defensive play by the Sharks blueliners and an inability to make the big save by Niemi himself. Douglas Murray stepped up in the neutral zone too aggressively as he tried to land a big hit, joining Ryane Clowe who had made the correct play and was providing pressure to the puck carrier. The Sharks were caught on a 2 on 1 coming out of a line change, and although Dan Boyle did his best to take away the pass, Stefan Meyer threaded it through the center of the ice to Craig Conroy who jammed it home. It was another questionable play by the Sharks Swedish blueliner, who has to be much more intelligent in his decision making if he wants to give San Jose the top four minutes they desperately require of him.
Murray has had a very disappointing start to the 2010-2011 season, with defensive zone giveaways and slow skates pervading his 19:13 of average ice time. Improvement from him is essential if the Sharks blueline is to provide the necessary help for the talented forward group to score goals and move the puck up the ice.
After the third goal, Niemi was subsequently pulled to the glowing jubilee of the crowd at Scotiabank Saddledome. As David Pollak of Working The Corners stated earlier today, Sharks Head Coach Todd McLellan will have to face second guessing all season long when it comes to his goaltending starts. And while Niemi clearly isn’t the goaltender that the Sharks expected him to be right now (something that may not be a surprise to offseason Fear The Fin readers), the decision to start Niemi tonight was the right one. A back to back game is prime time for a backup to get his licks in, especially one such as Niemi who is struggling right now in between the pipes (with the obligatory footnote that he is getting no help from his defenseman).
Antero Niittymaki's inclusion into the game was still not enough to stem the tide however, as the Flames would add one more before the twelve minute mark of the game was reached.
Off the rush Borque tallied his second of the night, as well as his fifth in four periods, blowing one through Niittymaki who had his angles covered. It was a weak goal from the Finnish goaltender, and one that essentially put the game out of reach mere minutes into the tilt.
The second period was similar to the first, with the Sharks taking nearly seven minutes before registering their first shot of the period. And while the team would gradually improve in the scoring opportunities department as the game wore on, a four goal lead was too much to handle.
The team will now have two days off to prepare for another pre-season favorite struggling with inconsistency, the New Jersey Devils.
Some other notes from tonight's game:
- Classy move by Todd McLellan after the Sharks went down by four to put Ryane Clowe with Logan Couture and Jamie McGinn on the third line. While a lot of it was likely due to help San Jose generate more offense, that also gives the Sharks young kids a physical presence on the line who can attempt to diffuse some nastiness that might amount from a blowout score. At any rate, it's a good looking line that the Sharks can turn to as it pairs a playmaker (Couture) and two guys with some quality board play (Clowe, McGinn) that have good hands to boot. Look for that throughout the year if the Sharks are struggling within a specific game.
- Devin Setoguchi loves that play where he comes around the back of the net on the backhand, only to spin towards the net on his forehand and try and put the puck in shortside.
- Ian White is just a gem on the point. One of the few quality acquisitions Calgary General Manager Darryl Sutter has made in the past five years outside of Jay Bouwmeester. White ran that power play beautifully tonight, with a booming shot from the blueline and a slew of clean passes from his forehand and backhand to the Flames forward group. An extremely exciting player to watch, and a potential trade target if Calgary struggles down the stretch.
- Scott Nichol was injured on the penalty kill during the game, taking a slap shot off the inside of his foot. He left the game midway through the second period and did not return. Nichol is a warrior and one of the toughest players on the team, so I don't expect him to miss much time. If anything, it was a decision McLellan made in order to play it safe considering the score at the time of his injury.
- Good job by Niittymaki to keep his head in the game after his first goal against to begin the game. As we mentioned last week he's clearly the Sharks goaltender who is playing the best hockey right now, and it was nice to see him stop the bleeding with some quality saves.
- Jay Woodcroft looks like Logan Couture's older brother.
- Calgary's in-game production crew is awesome, based solely off the fact that they played "The Impression That I Get" by The Mighty Mighty Bosstones and "Born To Run" by Bruce Springsteen. Helluva selection right there.
Go Sharks.
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Nice thoughtful analysis dude…
Here’s mine: NEIMI = BALLS
by skilletboy on Oct 24, 2010 8:48 PM PDT via mobile reply actions 10 recs
LOL a very fair assessment :)
rec’d
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own." -Noctro
by mssjsclowie29 on Oct 25, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Not a bad game if we erase the first period from our memory.
Four points out of six on the road – much more than I expected after that disaster at home.
I’m moving on.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
The first 12 minutes of this game
Reminded me of a hawks-flames game last year, except that this time, Niemi was the stinker and Niittymati the rescuer.
Unfortunately, the next 48 minutes did not remind me of that game at all.
So this is jumping the gun admittedly, but out of curiosity, could we dump Niemi on waivers and somehow get Greiss back if we wanted to?
I think Nitty played amazing aside from that first shot that somehow found its way through his arm. He stopped 24 of 25 and made some absolutely outstanding saves. I love the fact that he’s aggressive and will come out of his crease at the right time to challenge shooters, something that Niemi doesn’t do very often.
After this game, I think the goaltending stats say it all
Niemi: 1-3-0; .854 SV%; 4.49 GAA
Nitty: 2-0-1; .932 SV%; 1.80 GAA
I was a huge fan of the Niittymaki signing back on July 1st and he’s played even better than I expected.
I wasn’t too happy with the Niemi signing. After seeing him play in preseason though, I began to think the Twin Finn tandem might be good for the Sharks. He played pretty well in the season opener in Sweden but since then has been a total let down. I knew right off the bat that his goaltending style wasn’t a great fit for our current defense and I know a lot of the goals scored against him weren’t his fault, but I still expected much more out of him.
But 3 starts each is a small sample size so hopefully Niemi can turn things around and Nitty can keep making kick-ass saves in net.
All rational arguments. I think the skaters felt Niitty’s presence, too, as they slowly got more into the game and calmed down. I don’t agree with the penalty assessed on Niittymaki for his dive, but I applaud his persistence.
Jon Casey fan since '84
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I think Niemi will probably step up his game. Once our defense stops making stupid mistakes and they adjust to Niemi’s style, then things will improve.
But as of now, Nitty is clearly the best fit for the Sharks. You’re completely right stufflife, he has a good calming presence. He works really hard and is persistent. He had to fight off some tough shots to make some saves. The breakaway save tonight and the save on Matt Duchene against Colorado being a couple examples.
Nitty has a history of being streaky but so far, he’s been consistent and definitely has been earning his playing time. We’ve gotten points in all of his starts.
It’s just my opinion but I think the team feels more comfortable and less on edge when Nitty’s in net. He plays a very confident game and unlike Niemi, the team doesn’t have to worry so much about clearing unfortunate rebounds.
by puppysoldier on Oct 24, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
That breakaway save was fantastic.
There’s the issue: of course the skaters can feel Niitty’s presence, because they really do have a third line of defense, in case the forwards and the defense mess up. It changes the pressure that the athletes feel.
I feel like Niemi can only go up from here – I’m actually hoping today’s particularly abysmal game is a bit of a lull, as Niemi focuses on improving his goaltending through the extra practice sessions. But even if it’s not a lull as he makes an overall improvement, Niemi is definitely in a funk. And I’m hoping he can get out of it soon. Poor guy was making my heart break sitting on the bench looking like that.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Bad rebound control isn’t a style, it’s a problem. I’m tired of everybody writing that off as just something about Niemi. Rebound control is part of any good goaltender in the NHL. Just because Chicago could cover that issue when he played for them didn’t mean he was good then, it meant that their defense was that good.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Totally agree… And im not too worried… I think the Sharks will be fine even in spite of Neimi. But I almost want Neimi to continue to play like shit so we can all move on past this clear mistake by DW.
by skilletboy on Oct 24, 2010 9:32 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Rough, rough game...
Not much new to say. We got whipped. The defense is still holey. Niittymaki is still better than Niemi. This team will be a very up and down team until the defense is fixed (either from outside or from within).
I still think Niittymaki’s goalie style fits our team the best…and that the Niemi signing was a mistake…but dammit, I wish he’d play better. If we’re stuck with him, he might as well not be a goaltending black hole. Murray has been really terrible this season so far…that analysis is right on, Plank. He’s looked slow…which is bad when you are trying to be overaggressive and do not have to speed to make up for your mistakes. We still really need a top 2 shutdown guy so we don’t have to rely on Murray in that role (for for that many minutes). I’ve always felt he was overextended in that role.
Ah well, couple days off…then the cure for all that ails any defense…the New Jersey Devils (who look more lost than we do).
Chin up, Sharks fans…at least we aren’t the 49ers (I’m gonna go cry myself to sleep now…)
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 24, 2010 11:16 PM PDT reply actions
If I remember clearly, Douglas Murray seemed to be moving his feet at the season opener pretty well… But yeah, today, he was just awful. He’s gotta pick up, and his teammates and coaches have got to figure out how to amp him up consistently, because whether you agree with it or not, he’s on our first defense line, and that makes him a major part of this team.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Niemi gets a small pass for now from me
It’s clear that the skaters have no confidence in him to make a stop. The hyper aggressive play leading to the odd man rushes, defensemen trying to do too much and coughing up the puck… all indicative of that. I can understand why; here’s a guy who for all of the offseason has been derided as a poor-to-mediocre goalie who was propped up by a stacked Chicago squad. Who knows, all of that chatter might have gotten into the heads of the rest of the team.
Yet, here was a guy who stoned the strongest offense Chicago faced last playoffs (Sharks). Two other similar situations come to mind – Osgood (for like a decade) and Cam Ward (2006). Difference here is that those teams stuck by those guys who got them through when they needed it, even through bad regular seasons. The Hawks walked away. Chicago’s paying Dave Bolland 3.4 mil, yet they decide to pass on the guy who saved their bacon and replaced him with Turco, of all people.
Unfortunately for Niemi, we have problems to fix on D, are up against the cap, and have a capable backup in Greiss sitting in a spare parts bin. If he has two more games like the last three he’s started, he may be out the door solely so DW can poach a team that panics halfway through November.
He may end up being a bad fit for the team in the end (have said this before), but I’ll hold off on throwing him under the bus… for now. The skaters need to play a strong game in front of him first. If he ends up giving up 4 goals on 10 shots when the team is playing great, he’s headed to waivers for cap space.
Eh, I don’t consider sitting $1m under the cap as being “up against the cap,” because really, unless we make a freaking BLOCKBUSTER trade, we’ll be trading plenty of salary. Further, there’s no one to spend that cap on anyways, so whatever.
As for Niemi being out the door, I don’t know about that either – let him play a while to get out of the funk and let us have a chance to trade for something half-way decent, as opposed to just trading for nothing. Maybe he’s benched a lot more, but he’ll be playing, and I doubt he’s given up for nothing.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
It's up against the cap because the only way a trade for a legit #2 d-man can be made is by shedding salary.
Like Clowe’s, Murray’s, etc.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 25, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
But that’s the point – if we’re going to trade for a legit #2 defenseman, we’d probably have to trade one of these guys ANYWAYS. I mean, who would you plan on trading then? McLaren warming the bench?
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
If we had more cap space, we could conceivably not trade one of these guys.
By trading a combination of prospects/picks, we could have acquired a defenseman without giving up a big contract. We also would have been able to take on more salary than we were shedding, so we could have traded say, a lower-end roster player, pick, and prospect to acquire a defenseman.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 25, 2010 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Turnovers and transition
Niemi was not good, sure. But to my eyes (at least on highlights, I only caught the opening period on the radio, so, my ears) the Sharks inability to maintain puck possession and some absolutely brutal reads by Douglas Murray led to the disasters in net.
The team has been pretty horrible at stopping cross-ice passes in transition. The fact that forwards have been forced to be back skating because of the turnovers high on the Power Play has contributed to many shorthanded chances and the alarmingly high number of SHGs.
Jamie Baker stated that the success the team enjoyed in Colorado was because of better gap control and sticks in lanes, which were a direct result of the team skating better. Having not seen the entirety of the first, I’m assuming the team skated like crap again tonight.
In their first 7 games, the Sharks are 3-4. They would have been eliminated. Jamie Baker always likes to say that you should look at small pieces of your schedule as 7 game series, and you always want to be playing well enough to avoid elimination in any given sample of games. You’re not going to win every game, but you want to be winning 4 of 7, if not better.
If we were the Oilers, or the Blue Jackets, maybe we could afford to look at games as “learning opportunities” or “moral victories.” But we’re the San Jose Sharks. We have too many high salary players to accept these sorts of results. They’ll happen, yes. But they’re happening far too often this season, even if it’s early. For a team with such a vaunted offense, a shutout is not acceptable. Period.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I feel like you’re extra harsh on the Sharks this early in the season. For some reason, that makes me sad :(
Sharks goaltending: because one finn wasn't enough.
The few, the proud: Thrashers fans.
I am extra harsh on them right now
It’s mainly because I don’t like what I see. I don’t mind the losing so much. It’s the seemingly not trying that gets to me. If the other team is better than you, hey, it happens. But when I see what looks to be less than our best effort, that drives me up the wall.
My context for being a Sharks fan is those mid to late 90s teams that had very little talent on the roster and were pretty much always just around .500, but damn if they didn’t skate their hardest every night and make themselves tough to play against.
And in the losses thus far, I tend to just see a lack of effort, a lack of skates moving, and it’s tough.
Also, Nabby’s gone. That’s seriously messed with my psyche.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
+1 Elvis
Hey, in Boston we boo’d the Bruins when they pulled crap like that. When league min is 5-10x everyperson’s average salary, you give them crap for not putting it all down.
Breaks my heart to see what seems like apathy(?) on the ice. I know they have issues on D, but they are way better than this.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Oct 25, 2010 11:12 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing about the shutout. With all the firepower we have (and clearly the focus has not been on defense or netminding, so it has to be on offense), the shutout was unacceptable. I saw a stronger and stronger effort as the second and third periods rolled along, but the team as a whole couldn’t make one pass in a row, let alone two or three. The defense must be dead-tired today, because they were around the puck for almost the entire game. Dany Heatley was on the only Olympian that I noticed with frequency during the game.
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I have a Twitter Thing.
Off the rush Borque tallied his second of the night, as well as his fifth in four periods, blowing one through Niittymaki who had his angles covered. It was a weak goal from the Finnish goaltender, and one that essentially put the game out of reach mere minutes into the tilt.
REALLY? REALLY, PLANK? Could the other THREE GOALS have had anything to do with putting the game out of reach?
I’ll grant you that Niitty is going to need to quit his habit of letting in a freebie goal every game if we’re going to do better, but, let’s just invoke the arguments used not to freak out about Niemi: It’s a small sample size, and we’ll see more as the team gets used to him – and he used to them.
As for the rest of the players: lackluster. I can’t even think of a highlight that had me hopeful… for even a few seconds… There’s some endorsement for playing the mixed up lines – it may be easier to find chemistry that way. But I did like Clowe down there, actually, it was a good line.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Pretty sure
Plank was making the point that Nitty was brought in to spark the sharks into something that resembled an NHL team and Nitty’s soft goal was the, “sigh, same shit” feeling that put the game outta reach.
However I agree with you Nina that the game was pretty much outta reach at that point anyways :/
by Joseph Rice Graham on Oct 25, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly.
That goal, despite Nitty’s great play the rest of the game, deflated the team.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 25, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I gave nitty a pass on that one...
…he though he pinched it, and the pick was just a little faster than the arm closed on his body. You sure could tell by his reaction (immediately and afterward) that he was pretty pissed about that shot.
In general, I thing the Sharks do better with him because his play is more like Nabokov’s…he holds the puck when he needs to.
PS—the ref that called the DoG on Nitty probably rode the short bus to the game, if you catch my drift.
Noc
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Oct 25, 2010 8:28 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Rushdie Apple...
…but I meant PUCK, not PICK.
…grumble…
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Oct 25, 2010 8:30 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Autocorrect=EPIC FAIL
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Oct 25, 2010 9:17 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I honestly hope i’m not the only one who LOVES these posts. They make me laugh so much, mainly because its so damn annoying to have that happen, but if it was me i would just leave it as it was and force other people to try and interpret what i really meant :P
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m thinking of just saying screw it, and hust adding a disclaimer stating:
“Anything that doesn’t make sense is probably the result of Apple’s crappy iPhone-based auto-correction software. Sit back, laugh, then try to figure out WTF I meant before Steve Jobs processed it.”
And, just to vent…
Seriously, though, I love my iPhone. It’s just parts of it that iSuck.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Best analogy ever
wider than the holes in Charlie Kelly’s jean shorts
I feel like if Niemi had that kind of mobility, he’d be capable of pretty much anything. Just hope he doesn’t keep his cellphone in his cut off front pockets, or the Sharks are stuck in the empty pool for a while…
Great wrap up
I like all points you made in the bullet points. I really like Ian White, he’s super underated. I was lobbying for the Sharks to try to get Ian White this summer on here, but there was almost no chance that Calgary wouldn’t pay the arbitration price.
Niitty has been downright amazing for us imo. He tends to give up 1 softy every game but then after that he turns into a brick-freakin-wall. I honestly didn’t expect much from Niemi but i thought he would at least be serviceable, and at the moment he really isn’t. I hope we don’t have to make Niitymaki play 60+ games to make the playoffs…
Didn’t watch the game (thank goodness) but from the highlights, it seemed like the Sharks were just sloppy last night. Nitty was stellar after that first goal. That poke check save… eerily like Nabby.
Niemi has talent, but I’m just annoyed that every single goal saw him in the butterfly with his hands resting on his pads.
The offense looked very disconnected, very much like the games we lost previously. After seeing the Sharks play well in Colorado and Edmonton, I’m not as concerned about this game… but we need to find consistency fast.
Sharks goaltending: because one finn wasn't enough.
The few, the proud: Thrashers fans.
I'm just going to say it
Niemi should never be our starting goalie again. Now I see why the Blackhawks didn’t bother re-signing him. :/
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
BTSC's little enforcer!
"God created a light, fluffy, white cake, named it "Angel Food Cake", and said, "It is good." Satan then created chocolate cake and named it "Devil's Food." -Tamera Mitchell-
The sharks skated uphill all night.
Marleau is a Zero right now.
Heatley getting cross checked was the highlight of the night since it pissed him off and he had a few dominating shifts right after.
The kids look the best right now.
This team has NO NASTY. I don’t buy Clowe as the team tough guy.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
What a soft post
I know it’s early and you were somewhat critical of Murray and Niemi, but the entire Defense has been horrible, and it would be dilusional of me to think that somehow Doug Murray is going to become faster and better. Murray, Huskins and Wallin are all last line D-men. Doug Wilson should be taken to task for not improving our Defense. We’re worse than last year and instead of getting a guy to try and replace Blake (no easy matter) he spends the money on Wallin ( a complete bust!) and Niemi (we can all see how good he’s been). This is not a playoff team until the Defense can start making plays. I don’t believe as constituted they can or will. It’s a shame to waste such a potent offense (last night not withstanding) because the D will continue to let them and all of us down. Also, is this all Marc Edward is going to be? No offensive upside? Seems like the Organization has missed on defensive picks over the years, and I don’t see anything in the pipeline ready to change things…
What a soft post
Not sure if you’ve been reading this blog regularly, but defensive issues for this team have been covered ad nauseum by Plank and the rest of the staff. Please bear that in mind before criticizing the coverage. They try not to beat the dead horse, unlike some of the regular posters (myself included).
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I've read plenty
But it’s early in the year so no one is beating a dead horse unless you believe the season is over? DW deserves plenty of criticism for a pathetic offseason. BTW, did you know that Jonathan Cheechoo is with the minor league club with 7 points in 6 games. Why not bring him up, why not sign Owen Nolan, at least make it fun for the fans by bringing back some fan fav’s. Also, bring up Brandon Mashinter so at least this team will have a tough forecheck. Guys like Mitchell don’t scare D-men when he comes in to hit. The fourth line is boring and flat. Nolan would have been way better than Mayers and Cheechoo is better than McCarthy. I’m all for giving the young guys a chance, but since this team is so bad defensively I’d like to see them keep in interesting. I think we all know that this team may not even be a playoff team the way it’s constituted now…
Uhh… I thought the fourth line was playing great, and I love McCarthy. He’s scrappy and moves his feet like nobody’s business. Mayers has some great chemistry with McCarthy and Nichols too – as disappointing as the Nolan non-signing was, I’m not unhappy with this group of forwards. The defense is the problem.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Cheechoo has 7 points in 6 games, most of which came in the first 2 games and has tailed off since. He’s also not even first on the Worcester Sharks in points, Ferriero is. Beyond that, Cheechoo doesn’t have an NHL contract, he can’t be brought up. I also don’t believe for a second that Cheechoo would be better in a fourth line role than McCarthy, McCarthy can skate and forcheck, who the hell is going to set up Mr. Cement Feet on that fourth line? Nichol? Right.
If you think the team isn’t a playoff team, by the time your nostalgic retarded plans came to fruition we’d be fighting for a lottery pick.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
But it’s early in the year so no one is beating a dead horse unless you believe the season is over? DW deserves plenty of criticism for a pathetic offseason.
If only this blog had covered this dating back to the previous section with a series of trade target articles, and then periodically covered the available UFAs during the off-season. If only they had discussed the advanced statistics of the defense, as currently constructed. Wait…
BTW, did you know that Jonathan Cheechoo is with the minor league club with 7 points in 6 games.
It’s not like there was a fanshot of this or anything. Wait…
The fourth line is boring and flat.
I know, right? Isn’t it boring and flat when the 4th line scores in back to back games?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I know, right? Isn’t it boring and flat when the 4th line scores in back to back games?
SNORE! They should be FIGHTING AND YELLING OBSCENITIES SO WE CAN LAUGH AND HAVE A GOOD TIME! 4TH LINES AREN’T SUPPOSED TO SCORE, THAT’S BORING!!!
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 26, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
If this is true
Happy Birthday indeed!
by Chicago Shark on Oct 25, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Right!
Pics or it didn’t happen!
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I have a Twitter Thing.
Happy bday plank!
Looks like the coaches agree with your assessment, Murray was the least played Dman last night by almost a minute.
And Niemi’s style is only bad for the Sharks if not having a glove hand doesn’t fit into the Sharks defensive scheme. None of the goals last night were off rebounds. This isn’t the goalie we saw in the playoffs last year.
by ruben398 on Oct 25, 2010 11:01 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
This isn’t the goalie we saw in the playoffs last year.
The goalie we saw in the playoffs was always square to the shooter. Our offense was very stagnant and could hold the puck for very long. Niemi has incredible difficulty when the point of attack changes.
Niemi has been particularly exposed in net for us because a.) he gives up blindside rebounds that we do not clear because our defensive zone coverage is terrible b.) he’s very slow post to post and so when the cross-ice pass goes off, he takes a lot longer to get across, and his glove is not particularly quick.
Niemi is a weird hybrid of J.S. Giguere and Ilya Bryzgalov. His game is getting himself in front of the puck, not necessarily grabbing and freezing it, and taking away everything low. Giguere makes his style work because he can quickly cover his rebounds, and Bryzgalov’s style works because he stays deep enough in his crease when taking away shots low that he doesn’t give up soft backdoor goals. Niemi doesn’t do either of those, so it tends not to work for him.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Some upgrades we got in the net..
For what? Two chums for the price of one Nabokov and alienated Greiss?
The only difference between Greiss and Niemi right now is that we’ve actually watched Niemi play poorly as a starter. If any of the other NHL teams thought Greiss was as good as a lot of the posters here think he is, he’d be playing for them.
“Yeah, but we’re paying Niemi 1.2 million more.”
So we’d be getting better value for our bad goaltending?
As for Nabby, he’d likely be playing better than our current goalies, but for a lot more money, and minus Setoguchi and likely Clowe. And we’d be paying top dollar for declining performance for years.
What you and a lot of other people don’t seem to grasp is that we DO NOT know how Greiss would have faired. Yes he might have been shoddy but he also may have been good. We simply do not know. If you base it off of his play in the Olympics then thats bad justification because of the lack of defense (worse than the sharks) on Germany’s team. If you’re basing it off of the limited starts he had in the NHL, he was serviceable at worst. He is an unknown.
Furthermore, many teams think a lot of players are worthless, Look at Dan Boyle, he went undrafted and was told numerous times he couldn’t play in the league because he was too small. Now look at him.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand that perfectly well, actually. He may be a late bloomer, sure. He had a limited opportunity to impress, which is more than most goaltenders ever get, and he didn’t do enough to make the Sharks choose him over Niemi.
The fact that he cleared waivers indicates that the people who get paid to evaluate hockey talent on every other NHL team came to the same conclusion as the Sharks.
Just because it’s possible he might prove everyone wrong doesn’t mean it’s likely, and I don’t think anyone, including Greiss, is entitled to a roster spot on an NHL team. If he’s truly an NHL caliber goalie, his play in Europe will show that, and he’ll get another shot at some point.
Clearly you don’t because as soon as you say you do, you move on to say he had his chance and didn’t make the cut. He didn’t have a chance. Getting 7 or 8 starts scattered through 3 years does not a chance make, this has nothing to do with him being a late bloomer. He has not proven anything, good or bad. Simple and fact. Moreover, the decision to go with Niemi further proves that people who are paid to analyze hockey do NOT always know whats right. Look at the COUNTLESS trades that send off amazing talent because “they were not good, they were depth players.” You wishing and clinging to that notion does not make it real.
No one is advocating gifting him a spot on the roster, but why is he less deserving that Niemi? Because he accomplished something with a different team with the best defensive corps this side of the lockout (and possibly ever). Yea, not buying that argument one bit. NHL caliber goalies are only as good as the molds they are fitted for. Niemi is a great goalie for a team that will collapse and limit the shots he faces and allow his molasses ass to span the crease. Greiss relies HEAVILY on reflexes, much like Nitty, and much like Nabby. The reason why Nitty works so damn well in our system is because our system is centered around stoppages and holding onto the puck. A supposed strength of Greiss.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
after 130 AHL games for sharks and 19 NHL games (barely over .500) apparently the team thought they had seen enough.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
Those 19 being scattered and often coming at the tail end of back-to-backs where the sharks in front of him did not play. I’m not saying he would be great. I’m just saying the “he got his chance and didn’t make it” is such a weak argument.
Nitty has been a “career backup” as well, he’s looking pretty good right now isn’t he? True, he’s had the #1 spot before and lost it a few times, but whats to say that given the chance Greiss couldn’t have taken over the job. Its not unheard of for a sharks goalie to do that (ie: Nabby). Ultimately though, it is abundantly clear Greiss is a better fit for the system than Niemi. Putting money and experience and all that aside, the style each plays being the only factor, Greiss fits in better with the Sharks.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Look dude, Niemi won a Cup. He’s playing like crap now, and time will tell whether he’s capable of being The Man day in and day out, but he dominated the Sharks in the playoffs, plus outdueled Vancouver and Luongo. Greiss has never dominated at any professional level.
It’s not hard to understand the simple math here. Greiss proved nothing during his time in the AHL and NHL. Niemi has a Stanley Cup ring as a starter.
And yes, Greiss did get his chance. He played for the organization for several years. The Sharks brass has seen more tape of his play than you or me or any other poster here. Your argument that Niemi’s poor play to start the season proves that the Sharks don’t know what they are doing makes little sense to me.
Niemi had an.882 SV% in the Stanley Cup Finals. Your argument is invalid.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 25, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you
Every time they bring up Niemi’s performance in the playoffs they mention the Sharks, when they seemed to be physically incapable of elevating the puck for 4 straight games. Here’s a shocker, he stopped all the low shots.
He looked like garbage in the other series. I was watching the Nashville games and watching him give up a goal every other shot for game 5. It was horrid. It looked a lot like watching him as a Shark, except now I don’t get to laugh.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He still won. He made the saves he had to, and allowed his team to win in the finals, even if it wasn’t pretty. That apparently counts for a lot more than Greiss’s potential (and that’s all there is with Greiss). Mike Vernon and Grant Fuhr never had good numbers, but they played well enough to get their teams the Cup.
Everyone, here’s an announcement: I didn’t like the Niemi signing either. But I at least understand how his resume warrants a roster spot on this club.
I honestly don’t get all the Greiss love here. He didn’t do anything to really warrant it.
Mike Vernon and Grant Fuhr never had good numbers, but they played well enough to get their teams the Cup.
You lost all crediblity after that statement. You’re comparing Niemi to a current HHOFer and a future HHOFer who both played in the prime of their careers in the high-scoring 80s and early 90s. Mike Vernon won a Conn Smythe trophy, played in four SCF and has a playoff career 2.68 GAA.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
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by Will Bulldozer on Oct 25, 2010 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m crushed.
I didn’t say Niemi was a future HOFer, by the way. I don’t think Niemi is that great of a goaltender, but he accomplished what Nabby, a much better goalie, never even got close to doing. For better or worse, that’s why he got Greiss’s spot.
That is all. I’m sick of quibbling with the peanut gallery about small points.
I never said you did either.
Probably for the best. Anyone who thinks Mike Vernon isn’t a playoff calibre goalie probably isn’t worth quibbling with.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 25, 2010 8:50 PM PDT up reply actions
:facepalm:
yes you did.
“Mike Vernon and Grant Fuhr never had good numbers, but they played well enough to get their teams the Cup.”
What else is it supposed to mean?
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 25, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
First, you’re incorrect about Vernon and Fuhr not having good stats. Go check a hockey stats sheet and come back and debate this. Because you come off as ignorant.
Second, you’re comparing Niemi to two goalies who played during the high-scoring 80s and early 90s when a save% above .900 was considered phenomenal. When Mike Vernon led the Flames and Red Wings to the Cup, he posted a save% of .905 and .927 respectively. Hmm…that’s pretty damn good.
Third, Mike Vernon did lead the Red Wings to the cup. But then again, his two Stanley Cup rings are plugging his ears and his Conn Smythe trophy is blocking his vision. Or maybe Grant Fuhr’s Vezina trophy says he doesn’t agree that you don’t think he has good stats.
Apparently, you enjoy quibbling afterall. Stop running around logic by using Vernon and Fuhr as examples. Just let it go. Admit you’re wrong.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 26, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
i agree that vernon had good stats but not great, his numbers would have been better if it wasn’t for sharing duties during his red wings day…and didn’t one of his rings come from when he was mainly the backup for the red wings, and the red wings didn’t trust osgood so vernon got the nod and ended up winning that conn smythe trophy?
so i’d say both you are right.
by double the butter on Oct 26, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll take qualms with this:
Mike Vernon and Grant Fuhr never had good numbers, but they played well enough to get their teams the Cup.
Exactly the point – this isn’t about their teams, this is about THIS team. And what THIS team needs from a goalie is very specific – they need a leader in goal that they can trust, not a guy “playing well enough.”
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Ok. And which goalie would that be?
If what our team needs this year is a goalie that will dominate the league despite a porous defense, we’re really in trouble.
I’m not defending Niemi’s poor play. At all. He’s stunk. But the very idea that he’d get signed by the Sharks in lieu of Greiss is apparently difficult for a lot of folks here to comprehend, but to me is pretty straightforward.
Well, what Niemi needs is a defense that’ll dominate the league despite porous goaltending, so I’m not sure how that’s any better.
And it’s not straightforward at all. Clearly, we’re seeing that there are some major issues with his playing, and from what others saw of Greiss, he clearly was playing at least serviceably well. It’s clear Niittymaki is finding his gel with the defense as well, so I wouldn’t say it’s all the defense’s fault. Again – I’ll say, that when they have a guy who netminds in a way that gives the team confidence, they can focus on playing well, not protecting themselves from effing up. Because as soon as they’re focused on the negative like that, it WILL look like shit.
Also, perhaps, it’s easier to work with a young guy who’s trying to prove himself than a guy who has already won the SC and may or may not be demanding respect because of that (which is totally in his right, but he should go find a team that can make do with his “well enough” play).
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
We’re only a couple of games in to this season, with two new goaltenders, and a defense that’s not that great.
It’s going to take some adjustment, IMO. If Niemi and the d-corps are still a sieve after 15-20 games or so, then it’s time to start pulling some panic levers. But honestly, we knew that defense would be an issue heading into this season after Hjalmersson got matched.
OH, and here's him "outdueling" Luongo...
3.04 GAA, .898 SV%
The point being we know exactly what we’re going to get with him (and it’s not pretty). We literally have no idea what Greiss will do given a real cup of coffee at the NHL level…but it honestly can’t be worse…and it’d be for 1.5 million dollars less.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 25, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re right, we don’t know what Greiss would do. The Sharks, and every other NHL team, decided not to take a chance on him. Does that really not tell you anything about Greiss’s potential?
I dont understand why I have to say this so many times before you will acknowledge it, NHL teams are VERY SUSCEPTIBLE to making HUMONGOUS mistakes regarding talent. Look at the ridiculous Boogaard deal look at Calgary bringing back multiple trades they shipped off a mere two years ago.
But clearly they shipped them off because they weren’t any good then, they just turned good all of a sudden. Your argument is akin to putting your fingers in your ears and humming so you don’t hear anything but your own arguments.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ll agree with that – it’s hard to judge talent. Given that, some players depend a lot on the team. They may play amazing on one team, and not that great with another.
Still, I can kind of see the point – he’s either a diamond in the rough that all these NHL teams are just not recognizing, or he’s plain bad. Anyways, it’s not like the market for goalies was anything special this year anyways – a lot of teams may have decided to stick with their own prospects.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
No, I’m just pointing out that Greiss, whatever positives he could bring, did not clearly demonstrate that he’s better than any other goalie, either in the NHL as a backup or in the AHL.
This whole “I’m smarter than NHL scouts and GMs” thing is pretty weird, to me, and I thought we were done with it after buttercrunch got banned.
Yes, there are occasionally players that are given bad deals, or players that are dumped by one team that blossom on another. But that doesn’t mean your pet player is one of them.
I don’t think that’s it… I think for a lot of people here, they kind of congregate here because they’re fans of the Sharks. As such, there’s a tendency to, you know, have some faith in the players and team they’re fans of. It’s a weird thing, but you know, some people are eccentric like that.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
I really have nothing against Greiss. I hope he does well in Europe this year, and lands somewhere in the NHL, whether it’s on the Sharks or not.
But Greiss not getting a spot here, and passing through waivers, tells me that the Sharks aren’t misjudging him at this point. Maybe he’ll get another shot down the line, and maybe it’s unfair that Niemi gets a longer leash than him, but them’s the breaks for a pro athlete.
It’s fine that you have nothing against Greiss, just as I have nothing against Neimi either (despite last spring). But it’s clear that some of the people here had a lot of faith in his goaltending, and that’s within their right to say and bemoan. Greiss was playing strongest in the preseason as far as I can tell, but was screwed over by our signing of Niemi, which upset many people here. It’s looking like it’s even worse, seeing as that Niemi signing is now messing with the whole team.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
If I may, here’s some old timey history. Steve Shields was the backup to Vernon but forced his way into being the starter due to his strong play. Nabby took advantage of Shields injury to take the starting job from Shields.
Greiss played decently in his backup starts over two years. We can agree to disagree about what Greiss could have done as a 1a starter this year, but it’s not like the Sharks management decided to screw him over despite his dominating play.
There’s absolutely no question that Niemi has played poorly so far this year, and it’s hurting the team.
I don’t think there was an argument about whether Greiss should be 1a, but certainly there was a sense that he should’ve had a chance at some starts. Nabby dominated starts and barely gave Greiss time to play. From my personal perspective, I don’t know why we got rid of him before we’d counted how many eggs had hatched, so to speak.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
No one is claiming he was screwed out of a position, least of all me. What I, and many others you will see, have been saying is hes an unknown. You have taken the staunch point of view that hes not good, and the fact that he passed through waivers confirms this. Many players pass through waivers for various reasons, do you honestly think Wade Redden is terrible and doesnt deserve to play in the NHL? No his salary grossly overvalues his play but hes still an NHL caliber player, and because of his salary he would pass through waivers without a doubt.
by animadiversion on Oct 26, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions
i get your point but Greiss was a deal and everyone passed. A Boogard contract is one team making a “mistake” in overpaying.
if Greiss shuts out the new league he is in…maybe EVERYONE made a mistake. And if Niemi flat out sucks all year, maybe the Sharks did too.
Time will tell, until then, we debate!
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
Agreed. NHL managers are human and are error prone to the same mistakes we make, except their errors are far more magnified.
Talented players can go undrafted because they’re unknown commodities, not because they aren’t good enough to play in the NHL: Martin St Louis, Adam Oates, Dan Boyle, Chris Kunitz. All had very successful junior or college careers, but went under the radar for one reason or the other. NHL managers are also known to make atrocious errors: Patrick Stefan at #1 overall.
I think Greiss is as talented as any other hot goalie prospect coming through any of the other 29 teams, save for a few elite ones. Fundamentally, his tools are very similiar. The difference is that to other GM’s, Greiss adds nothing to what their own goalie prospects offer because of his limited action in the NHL. Because management limited Greiss’ starts behind Nabokov, other GMs don’t really have a good indication of how good he is. He still is essentially a project goalie. And because he was deemed expendable with Niemi’s signing… that was pretty much the writing on the wall for the other 29 teams.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 26, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions
This isnt a “im smarter than the GMs thing” this is a we dont know what he is yet. And neither do the GMs and neither do the scouts. Clearly they dont want to take the risk with him or he would be in net, but that doesn’t mean he would be bad or good.
You don’t seem to read my posts clearly, because I keep having to say the same thing over and over again. I’m not saying Greiss would be great, I’m saying he might have been. He at least has shown he was serviceable in the past, so you could argue he would be so in the future with the caveat of being significantly cheaper than Niemi.
And occasionally? Are you serious? Do you know who Glen Sather is? He grossly and frequently overpays for players (resigns), and look at the slew of Kovalchuk-esq deals, clearly the GMs know exactly how much everyone is worth and pay them appropriately.
by animadiversion on Oct 26, 2010 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Alex Tanguay was always pretty damn good on the Flames i thought. I dunno why they ever got rid of him. It was smart to bring him back imo. Jokinen is another story though.
the point is though that the coaches change their minds and gasp make mistakes at times by sending people off
by animadiversion on Oct 26, 2010 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I've made the point before about Greiss
He had some pretty big deficiencies in his game. He was overaggressive challenging shooters, and, as such, was susceptible to back door goals.
He honestly wouldn’t be much different than Niemi in that regard. We’d probably still give up soft back door plays, even if they were for different reasons, and they’d be not entirely the netminder’s fault, even if he didn’t help his cause.
In that regard, the money argument is totally legitimate. In the one case, you’re probably in the same boat in terms of wins and losses, but have $1.5M in cap more to work with to fix the problem, as well as one less unmovable contract.
I concur that Greiss would be no better. But he’d be cheaper. I think that makes all the difference.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
except that we can hope Niemi might wake up eventually...I don't see that possibility w/ Greiss.
Go Sharks!
I can’t decide how I feel about the “cheaper” argument – at this point it doesn’t matter because there’s no where better to put that money in, but perhaps later on in the season there will be a trade to be had – still, for any trade, we’d probably have to move pieces and give up salary anyways. Worst comes to worse we can send Niemi to the minors – I’m sure he can pass waivers too :P
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
If the Sharks brought in Niemi for his playoff resume and experience, they also have to be mindful that if Nitty continues to outplay Niemi, Niemi’s experience won’t be of much use sitting on the bench come playoff time.
The Sharks made a gamble. Niemi led the hawks as a rookie goalie who played less than a half of his team’s games. Opposing teams weren’t afforded an opportunity to adapt their offense based on his weaknesses and the limited number of games on video available, which was all the more masked by Chicago’s defense. Here’s the thing, the Sharks had never faced Niemi until the WCF. Had the Sharks faced Niemi prior to that, it’s very likely that they may have been able to capitalize on his weaknesses. Part of me also wonders if the Sharks’ subpar play in front of Niemi has to do with some lingering tension leftover from last spring.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 25, 2010 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wonder about that too – there’s something about the WAY Niemi makes these saves, looking like it’s absolute sheer blind luck, that’s totally demoralizing. It’s something different than just having a goalie who’s totally on his stuff, ready for your shot… It leaves an impression.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Greiss, at least to me, showed some signs of brilliance last year.
While he was the “meth squirrel” at times, I felt he played very well overall. He was never awful like Niemi was, if I can remember correctly. So I don’t see how or why he should be “woken up”
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 25, 2010 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
There’s definitely the chance that Niemi improves – he’s a rookie goalie, and there’s going to be some improvement from him, if only from more experience.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
I think Niemi makes me schizo…. one minute I’m berating Niemeh, and the next I’m defending puppy-dog-eyes Niemi. Damn you, why do you have to look so pathetic and puppy-dog-eyes on the bench!?
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Niity is hardly a chum (chump?)
The stats for the last 3 games he’s played are: 1.17 GAA .960 SV%, 1.00 GAA .955 SV%, 2.01 GAA .935.
That’s pretty damn good…
If you take away the 2 absolute softies he gave up in the last few games he’d have 2 shutouts and probably a 1.00 or lower GAA. (i no good at math)
Eh, the softies are part of the overall picture. But yeah, he always seems to give up a softy, then settle in and dominate the rest of the night. And, really, that’s a pattern I can live with. He has looked very, very good overall.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 25, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Well ya, last nights softy was a legitimate goal against but the one where he gave the puck away for a freebie is one that you can kind of expect to not happen many more times; to put it more simply, it’s not a reflection of how his goaltending is going to look in the future.
With the way Niemi is playing, how many games do you think Niitty will play this season?
If we want to win and get a good playoff seed and contend for the division, he’ll need to get 60 starts or so, IMO.
He’ll probably get no more than 40. Niemi did win a Stanley Cup, dontchakno.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Oct 25, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Idk, now that I think about it, I’m sure the team was planning to start Niitty a ton this season until we got Greiss… So if Niitty ends up as a solid #1 starter, well, that wouldn’t be unexpected to management per se. That was plan A, before we had a plan B, and then plan B exploded into soup cans and now we’re back to plan A minus Greiss, so plan C?
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
I didn't think Nitty was going to dominate starts with Greiss as the 1B goalie.
I thought the plan was for him to have 40-50, while Greiss would have 30 or so starts. It was going to be close to a split whether it was Niemi or Greiss as the other goalie is what I am trying to say.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 25, 2010 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Now I’m not so sure of that… If they just threw him out the way they did, were they really going to give him that many starts? I just don’t know. It’s entirely possible, but then again…
Gosh, Sharks goaltending is such a mess. It’s a bit weird.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
That's what seemed odd to me when I heard they signed Niemi.
But supposedly the Sharks wanted Niemi all along and didn’t think he was available, but later had an opportunity to sign him and did. They also couldn’t have gotten rid of Nitty without breaking the CBA, so Greiss was much easier to “throw away” I guess.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 26, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm
That seems odd to me still. The offersheeted Hjalmarsson, they knew Chicago was in for cap troubles, why not take the same aggression towards getting Niemi? I’m just not sure I believe that – where did you hear that?
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
DW said so after they signed him, I believe.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 27, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Nope, never said anything of the sort, he said if you have a stanely cup winning goalie fall into your lap you have to pursue it. He never stated that was always his goal, just the conspiracy theorists out there.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Interesting.
I must have read it wrong then.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Oct 28, 2010 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, this is a bunch of hogwash. They could have traded Nitty if they wanted to (I’m not sure where we all got the idea you can’t sign and trade, it’s not true, the Ducks did it with Wisnewski this summer). We also could have signed Niemi if we wanted to instead of Hjalmarsson. Niemi looks to be a plan R situation since the first 15 plans fell through.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
SUSHHHHIIIII ERRRRA
NIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTYNIITTY
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Sharks need four a night.
They have this attitude that if they have a lead they chill out instead of trying to gut the opposition. Games stay too close too often and they are a totally reactionary team too. Heatley gets hit last night and goes bat shit crazy. Thorton gets slashed or cross checked and people say the giant is awake. But why does it take something like that to get them going?
Even with a killer D corp, they would still need to score and the scorers still need to show even more urgency now because the team D is miserable.
As far as the effort: I don’t care if its game 8, the ticket still costs the same as game 74.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
But not as much as a ticket to game 83.
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
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Thing is though, a lot of the time the forwards are spent in the defensive zone trying to make up for some error or another. All this time in the defensive zone saps energy and shifts from these potent forwards. Give them time in the offensive zone and they’ll produce, as was evident in Edmonton. Point is, D needs to be better (even from the forwards) turning over pucks needs to stop, especially high (at the blue line) and they need to (as Elvis keeps mentioning) SKATE. Elvis is absolutely right in that this team looks good when they skate and atrocious when they don’t. Last season if they slaked off in skating, Nabby would cover. We don’t have that luxury anymore, they need to skate the entire 60 minutes every single game.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
not sure i buy that
the forwards have to play team d and so they can’t score anymore? D mistakes are putting pucks behind shark’s goalies. They did nothing all night in the offensive zone against calgary. they aren’t built to just counter punch like the devils of years past. My point is with all the money the team has dedicated to a group of scoring forwards they need to focus on 4, not just get one and sit back.
No D means you can’t sit back.
Expensive forwards means THEY should be controlling the play and pressuring in the opponents end.
Definitely agree they needed to skate against calgary cuz they sure can’t compete physically.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
The best teams score in transition
Playing good defense sets up your offense. Playing bad defense tires your forwards out. Our forwards are big AND fast. There’s no reason for them to be hemmed in their own zone unless they’re out of shape or not working hard enough.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Yeah… thats true. part of the reason Calgary did so well against us is that every transition turned into an offensive strike. It looked like everytime we tried to do that, half our team was making VERY VERY SLOW line changes at the bench. Pavs or someone would set up the puck and turn around and go, ‘WELL I GUESS NOT THEN.’
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
How are they supposed to control the play when they have turnovers going into the offensive zone by the defense. Or the defenders (them included) are not able to get the puck from the opposition. Or are you suggesting they never have the other teams get the puck? I dont understand how you can think domination in the offensive zone means you dont have to worry about D. If you’re that top heavy in terms of salary then you NEED your forwards to play D. You can’t leave your D out to dry and expect to win 10-9. Thats precisely the problem with this team right now, sure they can score, but can they commit to playing D? Mayers said it best in an intermission interview. “We have to play D as a team, and the offense will come” I’m fairly sure he knows better than all the rest of us of what the Sharks’ strategy is.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
my point is basically that this group of forwards rarely puts a team away, and this year’s D is so poor that 3-2 wins of the past have the potential to be 3-5 losses pretty quick.
regarding the forwards, I would hope that their talent, especially the guys with the 7 mill contracts would be enough to carry the play. or phrased differently: I would like to believe Joe Thornton’s play can make up for Wallin’s deficiencies as opposed to thinking that since Wallin sucks, Thornton and co. are forced to suck too.
otherwise I might as well go cheer for the Broncos vs the Raiders…ahhhhhh shit.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
They say a best offense is a good defense. If the Sharks’ forwards aren’t back-checking, they aren’t doing their job to help the defense create turnovers and regain possession of the puck. If the Sharks want to play puck possession style, their forwards have to help force turnovers in the neutral zone. Sharks’ D is not close to being good enough to move the puck on their own and transition the offense. Besides Boyle, there really isn’t an effective puck mover on the D. And that’s why the majority of the Sharks’ goals have been scored on the powerplay, and not during even strength.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
Reunite the SPCial (seto, pavs, clowe) line.
by Will Bulldozer on Oct 25, 2010 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Hmm… That makes a lot of sense. Some of the young guys are bit more defensively-minded, and if you take a look at the +/- from last game, it definitely shows. The guys who are at 0 (icetime):
J. Mayers (14:59)
T.Mitchell (13:27)
S.Nichol (7:53)
L. Couture (15:58)
K. Huskins (17:51)
J. McCarthy (15:33)
J. Demers (18:12)
J. McGinn (15:49)
I put icetime in so you can see, aside from Nichol obvs, they all got decent ice time. The guys at -2 are Murray, Pavs, Seto, Boyle and Clowe. Idk, makes me think that
a) the lines that are clicking together are doing a much better job communicating and getting the puck to where it needs to be, and
b) these guys are the players you see trailing the d.men back when the puck turns over, and it’s showing here.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
Mainly what Will said above me, its not about Thornton making up for Wallin, its Thornton and company SUPPORTING Wallin. There is a huge difference in the play of a team waiting on the d to make the pass to the forwards to get the play started and the forwards being engaged and skating. By back-checking and breaking up plays on the defensive end they help to feed their game on the offensive end.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Also Wallin is at -1. Thornton and company need to support Boyle. haha.
LET THE ERA OF THE SUSHI BEGIN!
I was using Wallin to mean the Defense as a whole. The forwards need to support the D just like the D needs to support the O. Its a TEAM game.
by animadiversion on Oct 26, 2010 8:30 AM PDT up reply actions
and I brought Thornton and Wallin up because one is part of a 20 million dollar line which, if the talent warrants the payday, should hopefully be making a bigger impact on the game overall than a mediocre D.
Calgary’s team carried the play. Not a single sharks line seemed to carry the play or have the ability to change the momentum. I still think that was an anomaly for all 4 lines to be flat at once.
I guess my overall point is Wallin is always going to be mediocre and the ultra talent of the forwards shouldn’t just disappear because of that.
or this season is going to be very frustrating.
'It's amazing the clarity that comes with psychotic jealousy.'
see I dont think the talents forwards ability disappears but it gets such a limited opportunity to show itself. Furthermore, look at Marleau (who actually is my favorite player) his shot % is WELL below his career average, we can expect those numbers to go up as well as the forwards to produce more goals. However, the major caveat here is that they cant score points in the defensive end, so they need to move their asses out of there with strong smart defensive play to stay in the offensive zone.
by animadiversion on Oct 26, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Happy bday plank.Thanks for all the hard work
where do I send the spaten to?
jason"ratboy"collins rules
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"--WJC January 2010
"Hah! Crom laughs at your four winds!"
Not you sure you could blame Niemi as much...I have an anology for you all.
Remember that platoon season w/ Toskala/Nabby? Nabby got ZERO help and ZERO offense to help him out and he kept losing and Toskala kept winning and of course Nabby’s injuries also played into Toskala being our goalie in the playoffs, but this is a similar situation. I feel bad for Niemi – he’s playing as decently as any team should expect him to except that he is being left to die by the D…I think it’s time for DW to SERIOUSLY considering the situation on defense because if in the offseason, he thought we’d squeak by without that big acquisition on D, it’s blatantly obvious now that we won’t…
Go Sharks.
Go Sharks!
I agree and disagree…we desperately need a new D man, a top 2 if we can get one. But Niemi just isnt a good fit for this team (I personally dont think hes even serviceable, but thats opinion) but his style of rebounds and the butterfly system just dont play to the strengths of this team.
by animadiversion on Oct 25, 2010 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I feel bad for Niemi as well
Honestly, he would be best served with a strong defensive team. He could be successful in a place like Chicago, LA, Phoenix, Vancouver or Pittsburgh where the team’s strength is at the blue line. But here in San Jose, barring some major personnel moves, he’ll just be continued to left out to dry.
I don’t think he’s ever going to be an elite goaltender, but hey, he has a ring. And the bad thing is, his contract actively hinders us from improving the D this season. If he keeps playing like he is, no one is going to want him, and if we keep him, we have to move someone else more valuable. Which leaves waivers or buyouts, neither of which I can imagine the front office is going to be in favor of. We’re not a big revenue club.
I really don’t know anymore. Nitty is good, but he’s been streaky his whole career, and he needs a reliable #2 to push him. On a different team, Niemi could have been that guy.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think we could work around a deal with Philly...but I never said he fits the mold of the team...
I actually also agree that he doesn’t…
Go Sharks!
Drew Remenda has been critical of the Sharks of late
Really, who hasn’t?
Instead of picking apart what is wrong with the Sharks, he takes some professional advice and examines what’s good about each member of the Sharks:
http://media.fans.sharks.nhl.com/_FINDING-THE-POSITIVES/blog/2861651/122899.html
It’s obviously a happy fluff piece, so take it for what you will, but I felt a little better after reading it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This cheered me up
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/teams/ana/stats
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Slow & Soft
The two things that has worried me from training camp on is rearing its ugly head, a slow defense and an overall softness to the team.
Its too early to panic, but I have to believe that DW knows that this defense can’t take them to the cup.
IT WON'T HAPPEN THIS SEASON!!!!!
All these comments don’t mean ANYTHING, we better start re-building this team, too many OLD players!!!!!!!, YOUNG PLAYERS GAME, can’t you get it!!!!!! no Stanley Cup for my Sharks this year……
Okay, seriously, the average age of the team is about 28. We have more players 25 or younger than over 30 (10 and 9 respectively). That’s just about league average.
If the team plays like it’s playing, lazy and inconsistent and in desperate need of a defender, the Cup outlook is bleak. But that assumes the roster stays the way it is, which I doubt, and the team attitude stays where it is, which I also doubt (though it has plagued us in the past). But age has nothing to do with it. It’s the mental makeup of the team and our need for a top four defenseman.
I’m just waiting for someone to explain how Detroit keeps being a power house in this “young players game”
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The new Monsters of Medicare line
McGinn/Couture/Mitchell
And the Party Time at the Senior Center line
Clowe/Pavelski/Setoguchi
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
More !‘s don’t make you right, they make you sound retarded, so it’s probably appropriate you used so many.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I thought the blatant inaccuracy of his statement made him sound that way
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
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