Talk of a new Summit Series heats up-- should it happen?
by Ivano M on Nov 29, 2010 3:01 AM PST
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Many Canadians still consider this goal by Paul Henderson to be the most important goal of the last century. Photo courtesy of Toronto Star File.
A question we'll see come up again and again in the next year will be the one raised by an NHL player agent Allan Walsh on Twitter - "Is 40th anniversary Canada Russia Summit Series in 2012 a good idea?"
The reason why is because of last week's report by New York Times indicated that Hockey Canada held preliminary talks with the Russian Ice Hockey Federation for a new Canada-Russia Summit Series to be held in September 2012. The series intends to do two things-- (1) celebrate the 40th anniversary of what is considered by many the greatest hockey tournament of all time, the 1972 Summit Series between Canada and Soviet Union, and (2) write a new chapter the biggest rivalry in international hockey. The Series will likely include eight games (four in Canada and four in Russia), just like the original one-- all played in different cities. The talks are also in line with what we reported here at Fear the Fin two weeks earlier, that the new hockey arena that's being constructed right now in Sochi for 2014 Winter Olympic games is ready to host the Summit Series in 2012.
While I think the best international game of the the recent past was that memorable Canada-USA final at the Winter Olympics in Vancouver, no game at that tournament was more anticipated by hockey fans around the world as was Canada-Russia. Ovechkin, Malkin, Datsyuk, Kovalchuk vs. Crosby, Toews, Niedermayer, besides many other all-stars, including five of our Sharks all on the ice at the same time. However, the game was pretty much over after the first period as a result of a well executed slaughter by the hands of Canadian coach Mike Babcock and his players, which is why I found the Gold medal final to be more interesting (and less painful for me). But there is still no greater rivalry in all of hockey than the one between Canada and Russia. Imagine the same rosters of players on the ice, but repeated eight times within a two or three week period.
That kind of hockey in September on TV or in person would beat the useless NHL preseason hockey games, wouldn't it?
No other teams have seen as much international success as Canada and Russia. No other teams produced as much hockey talent on a consistent basis as these two. No other two nations in the world care as much about the game as do those two.
The report by New York Times does an excellent job covering the history of Summit Series and what followed, and there is no need to rehash it here once more. For additional reading, please refer to this Wiki article.
Since the discussion began, I was asked several times on Twitter (as well as in person) for my thoughts on the idea. I endorse it with both hands for the following three reasons.
- Olympics is not enough. You're not a hockey fan if you didn't enjoy last year's Winter Olympics hockey tournament. This was pure hockey at the highest skill level and the best talent on the ice, with national pride messing with our emotions on a daily basis. But the Olympics happen once every four years, and teams only get to play each other once or twice in those tournaments. If this current generation of hockey players in Canada and Russia can be called Crosby's and Ovechkin's teams, isn't it a shame if the best of the best for these countries only faced each other on the big stage 3-4 times in their careers? Single elimination games are not enough either. One of the many reasons why I love American sports is the concept of a series. The winner is not determined in one game, but instead, in a series of games. The result of a series is more valid because it's not based on one fluke goal, or one bad period of hockey.
- History will be made. One of the more frequent arguments raised against having another Summit Series is that in 1972, the tournament was highly political. It was more than just hockey-- it was Capitalism vs. Communism. The political context is gone now, but the hockey rivalry remains. Nothing excites hockey fans more in Canada and Russia than the games between these two countries in any hockey tournament. No victories in the recent Russian hockey history were more important than when Russia beat Canada in the 2006 Winter Olympics or when Russia beat Canada in the 2008 World Cup. I can also guarantee you that there was not a day in the last decade when more vodka was consumed than on the day Russia lost to Canada last February. The fans still talk about these games in both countries. The new tournament lets this rivalry live on.
- Most of us were not alive in 1972. Not to offend those of our Fear the Fin readers who were alive in 1972 and watched the series on TV. But there is a huge portion of today's hockey fanbase who did not get to experience that series in real time. Sure they replay it often on hockey channels around the world, and one can buy DVDs0- but nothing beats being witnesses to a new hockey history.
No doubt Hockey Canada and Russian Ice Hockey Federation want the new Summit Series to happen. Even IIHF is endorsing the event. The man in charge in Russia is Vladislav Tretiak himself. whose legend was born during that 1972 Summit Series. To this day, Tretiak is as recognizable as Alex Ovechkin when he travels to Canada for business. There is no doubt the fans in both countries will also want the series to happen, as would the players. But not surprisingly, the NHL administration is cold to the idea, with Bill Daly, NHL's deputy commissioner issuing this statement via email:
"We don't think that endorsing a re-creation of a Summit Series utilizing N.H.L. players is appropriate given the current makeup of the N.H.L. We are more international now than we ever have been before and to limit any ‘N.H.L. authorized' or ‘endorsed' series between only two hockey countries would be unfairly exclusionary."
The point made by the league is a fair one - the new Summit Series would complicate another NHL season, and also eliminate the likes of Henrik Zetteberg, Ryan Miller and Marcel Goc from showing off their skills and national pride against the other best players in the game. As pointed by New York Times, the talks are also complicated by the fact that the current collective bargaining agreement between the players and the league is set to expire in September of 2012, and who knows at this point if new agreement will even exist at the time.
I am clearly a bias party here, but since the majority of the FTF readership is neither Canadian, nor Russian, I'd love to hear your opinion on this.
Should the Summit Series between Canada and Russia happen? As an American (or any other nationality), would you be interested in watching it?
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Based on the last olympic rosters and their performance, is it safe to say that Russia would make a better match up against the Canadians then the USA?
The Russia vs Canada battle has the historical vendetta and the big names to make it interesting, but after Vancouver I’d rather see them play the Americans. The network who airs it would probably agree with me.
Maybe a better matchup, but not a lot of history. It’s a young rivalry. Also, Russia-Canada was a fluke game that as I said was over after one period. No way Russia wouldn’t have adjusted after that game, and what’s why I think a series tells a better story.
Also, I don’t think a lot of people would care in the US. Casual non-hockey fans watch Olympics, and do catch hockey, but outside of that, they hardly ever watch a game. The World Cup is not even broadcast here.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
nah...the Russians have a lot more depth skill-wise
Too bad we just hit Canada early in the tourney :(
Go Sharks!
I love watching hockey. Absolutely thrilled with each game. I never understand those that can call any game boring. The Olympics was just WOW! Just absolutely a thrill to watch. Unlike many here, I’m still new to hockey (yes old enough to have watched back in 1972, but way wasn’t interested). But now I come home from work, turn on Center Ice and can even see a goal before it happens.
So this Summit Series would be great to watch. I’ll buy the first round for any get together when this series happens.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Isn't that a great feeling,
to see a play unfolding and know that the team is going to score? Except of course, when the team getting their butts kicked in the zone is wearing teal sweaters…
by Chicago Shark on Nov 29, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
I would absolutely LOVE to see this happening.
And I agree, the Olympics are not nearly enough.
I’m not American, nor a native from either Russia or Canada but a hockey fan first and foremost, and only just recently as well. This would be amazing to watch.
However, I do understand the NHL’s point of view. It would be a shame to exclude other nationalities from this. Is there a way to get around that? I doubt it, and there’s probably no way to do this without offending someone.
I support this wholeheartedly.
They used to hold Canada Cup every eight or so years, which was later replaced by “World Cup of Hockey”, last played in 2004. You may remember that this is the only big trophy Ron Wilson won when he won it with US in 1996. Those featured best of the best even before NHL started going to the Olympics.
There’re still talking about possibly bringing that back, but my guess is that it won’t happen unless NHL stops going to the Olympics.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
There’s also the IIHF Chamionships. It’s played every year as well I believe (and that’s a little too often IMO).
That’d probably get viewers, but the player turnout isn’t as good seeing as it’s right after the NHL season ends.
Randy: "So head butting... better than butt patting"
Drew: "Well keep an eye if there's butt patting"
I'd be more than happy to watch.
Neither team is “my team” but I do have a Team Canada Olympics shirt hiding out in my closet (I planned on wearing it to support HTML+Boyle if Team USA got eliminated and I couldn’t wear that shirt, but that never happened much to my delight). More world class hockey could never be a bad thing in my mind.
I would be a little disappointed that I wouldn’t be seeing Joe Pavelski: American Hero, but I’m sure I could still find someone to root for. And who knows if in two years a guy like Demers might be in contention for a spot on the Canadian team.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I agree with the league
The state of NHL hockey today is fragile at best. I think the league has done an excellent job picking its battles in an attempt to get NHL branded game back into the awareness of American viewers. Consider the fact that national NHL broadcasts are basically limited to the Winter Classic and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.
The Olympics were a resounding success due to the personal connection between game and country, something that would be lost to the US audience in a Canada-Russia contest. In that way, the American fans that would be following this competition, would be already die-hard NHL fans cheering for their teams players.
At the same time, I think there is an opportunity here to grow the game provided other countries national teams are involved.
I wish Theo Fluery still played
Last I heard
(after the season, I believe) the NHL had better TV ratings than the NBA. I don’t even know the last time the NHL had more viewers than any of the other big 4.
by Chicago Shark on Nov 29, 2010 4:24 PM PST up reply actions
I’d love to watch this. We don’t see enough hockey that’s best on best with the world championships happening during NHL playoffs.
That said, getting the NHL to cooperate with IIHF would be difficult. Also – aren’t the rinks different sizes? Would this be an issue?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
Frivolous Ornamentation
by Karina on Nov 29, 2010 9:30 AM PST reply actions
I'd totally be down!
Sounds like a good time for all hockey fans. I guess as long as it doesn’t affect the players before the season starts, too much with all that play-time and travel, I’m OK with it. Moare hockey = better. Bring it. I probably won’t be as involved emotionally as the Olympics but I’ll probably root for Team Canada, sorry Ivano, closer to home. Wonder if I can get Canda is my other homeboy shirt for the event :)
This would be pretty cool
I think international hockey never gets enough coverage. Clearly, the Olympics hockey model works when you have professionals playing. I’m hoping the NHL doesn’t rob fans (and non-fans) of that in 2012 and beyond.
Russia and Canada games would be extremely intense, and I’m sure plenty of players would enjoy it. And there would be entire countries who actually care.
If this didn’t work out, I’d definitely like to see the IIHF at a better time in the season. That’d be equally as exciting (and clearly players care… especially the Russians), and include more countries. But, unfortunately, they have it right after the Cup finals have ended… that’s just not good planning.
Randy: "So head butting... better than butt patting"
Drew: "Well keep an eye if there's butt patting"
The IIHF World Championship isn’t held right after the Cup Finals – it’s held during the playoffs. That’s why Robert Esche is often the starting goalie for the US in that tournament – all the good American goalies are in the NHL and usually in the playoffs. It’s why many of the top players are rarely playing – their NHL teams are usually good enough to make the playoffs, and so they’re busy doing that. I think the tournament ends while the Stanley Cup playoffs are in the Conference finals or shortly afterward, since I think only players who exited in the second round or earlier are able to play.
While I wasn’t a huge hockey fan back then, apparently in 2005 when there was the NHL lockout, the World Championship was amazing, as every NHL player was available and willing to play. As in, Joe Thornton was a grinder on the third line level of competition.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Fear the Fin - Cornering the market on third pairing defensemen since March 2009
As of the most recent Olympics
Joe Thornton was still a third line grinder.
After the near debacle against the Swiss, HTML stopped getting top line minutes.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I'm not so sure about this...
The Summit Series was a cultural event born of the times. It was highly political, as you mentioned, and that created a buzz around the series because of it. The Soviet Union vs. Canada was, at the time, the premier hockey battle. No other countries were close in terms of talent level. And the subcontext of the Capitalism vs. Communism (the same undercurrents that made the Miracle on Ice game such a big deal here) helped create that. Today, it would just not be nearly the same. At all.
So we are left with a dilemma. You can’t recreate the Summit Series. No chance. Without the political undercurrents present, it just won’t generate the same buzz with non-hockey fans. Therefore, it will be harder to get a broad appeal…especially here in the U.S., where the TV money is. Couple that will the expansion of talent around the globe (Canada is still the premier hockey hotbed, and Russia is close, but the U.S., Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic, and Slovakia have all started catching up as well), and really, Canada vs. Russia is just another game. I guess what I’m saying is that a series between Canada and Russia would be equally as intriguing as Canada-U.S., Russia-U.S., Finland-Sweden, Slovakia-Canada, etc.
So, overall, I’d say I have to be against the idea of a Summit Series. You can’t recreate the electricity of the original series in today’s political and global climate. You can’t even say that you’re pitting the best countries against one another anymore. And having an international series that doesn’t include the other hockey powerhouses around the world, to me, at least, cheapens the whole thing. It’s like saying that other countries’ talent doesn’t matter and that the game hasn’t grown. The game has grown, and the world has changed. I think this would end up being a bomb overall…and really only appeal to hardcore hockey fans. Not exactly a way to grow the appeal of the game.
And I’d hate to sully the memory of such a classic series by trying to recreate the impossible 40 years later.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Nov 29, 2010 11:59 AM PST reply actions
And I’d hate to sully the memory of such a classic series by trying to recreate the impossible 40 years later.
coughcoughWoodstockcough
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I have a Twitter Thing.
The NHL has already shot this idea down. At least I remember Jeff Marek saying as much on Twitter.
Russia-Canada is a special rivalry, but the Summit Series just can’t be repeated. We didn’t know how the best on best would stack up back in 1972… now we have opportunities to show that. A World Cup, a real one where countries bid for the right to host it, is the logical next step.
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A World Cup, a real one where countries bid for the right to host it, is the logical next step.
I’d be all for that idea. That would be awesome.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Nov 29, 2010 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
Today's Summit Series would inevitably become
Crosby vs. Ovechkin.
I’m a fan of Sid the Kid, which I know puts me in the minority. But I think even the most die-hard Crosby and Ovechkin fans are probably done with the need to bill their every matchup as something Earth-shattering. The Olympics were big because it was a bit of a Golden Generation for both nations, taking place IN Canada, etc. etc. I think the perfect book-end would be the Sochi games. The key players will be there still, in the prime of their careers, but this time, in Russia.
Zero hit the nail on the head about the Summit Series being important to the time. And let’s not forget, they also happened in an age where Russian players didn’t get a lot of exposure in North America. The name “Summit” really was apt. It was a meeting of Hockey’s great powers. It’s one of the milestones that made the league what it is today. You’ll find just as many European names on Lord Stanley’s Cup as you will North American these days.
I support the notion that the IIHF World Championships COULD capture some of this international excitement, but they need to happen AFTER the Stanley Cup playoffs for that to happen.
Soccer has been dealing with the issue of club vs. country commitments for years now. It’s not perfect, but there’s no denying that Domestic, Continental AND International competitions draw the best possible players. As much as FIFA gets wrong, that seems to be one thing it does right. The NHL and the IIHF should take notice.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I agree with you on the IIHF part. Plus, count me in as a fan of Crosby. I don’t mind Ovechkin either, but his attitude and recklessness bother me. I had forgotten about the Sid vs. Ovi matchup with this series, but that actually might ruin it. Provided that it’s not the most talked about aspect, it should be fun.
Randy: "So head butting... better than butt patting"
Drew: "Well keep an eye if there's butt patting"
International Tournaments
This would be a wonderful series to watch. The olympics were great to watch because the players in them actually played to win and cared about the win for their country’s pride, etc etc. It would be completely unlike the NHL All Star game, which is held in a poor mid season time slot where there is nothing on the line, so the players in that play not to get hurt and thus the game blows chunks without people finishing checks etc.
The problem is timing. A September time slot interferes with NHL initial training camps, etc, so I can see the NHL being cautious in that regard because they don’t want more interference than necessary (remember they still don’t want to do the olympics either, just the uproar if they reversed their call would be huge).
I personally would love to see this in summer. Perhaps the later in the year slot worked better in the past with stadium AC not being fabulous, but this day n age a summer hockey rink isn’t a hard thing to do. Give the tournament a late July – early August date and it would be perfect. Gives a bit of a break after the Stanley Cup for rest and recoup time, but fits into that lull time after the cup but before team training camps. After all, players aren’t just sitting around during that time, theres rest but theres also off season workouts, conditioning, etc etc. With the July/August time slot, those players selected would just have their conditioning in actual games instead of personal practices, and nothing would interfere with anything the NHL is doing (except obviously potential injuries in said tournaments).
Why not bringing back the World Cup of Hockey?
The NHL gets it’s necessary U.S. interest and it would be another chance to see more of the best players in the world. I would love to see a Summit Series too, but I think bringing back the World Cup of Hockey would be a better option.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Nov 29, 2010 5:19 PM PST reply actions
Right now they’re thinking World Cup of Hockey simply replicates the Olympic tournament. The two probably can’t exist together.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I can see that argument.
They probably need to something a little different then, I guess.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Nov 30, 2010 5:06 PM PST up reply actions
hmm
new Summit Series = more hockey
more hockey = good
new Summit Series = good
plus i wasn’t around when it happened…
MeThinksSports Q!!!
They shouldn't call it it Summit Series
Or in anyway talk about it being an “anniversary” sort of deal. That would just ruin it for me.
But the general idea is great. I’d just be happy to see some good hockey after the playoffs end.
I’d assume it’d have to be in early-mid August though. Not sure how it works out logistically.
Randy: "So head butting... better than butt patting"
Drew: "Well keep an eye if there's butt patting"
I
Hate that some guy in the NHL can say what’s unfair and what’s not, i’m from Finland and i
would LOVE to see this happen.i don’t care to see some idiot like jarkko ruutu injuring all-star players…(BTW Sweden vs Finland would be so cool…… though we probly gonna loose)
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