Sharks powerless in loss to Detroit, lose 5-3
by FTF Staff on Dec 1, 2010 12:01 AM PST
in Sharks Game Recaps
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The Sharks were able to get two points in Edmonton with only four defensemen. Detroit, however, was much more prepared to exploit the Sharks' injury situation, scoring five goals en route to a resounding win at HP Pavilion.
Many of Detroit's goals came at the expense of the Sharks' young defensemen, who had trouble wrenching the puck away from the Red Wings' familiar cast of forwards-- Pavel Datsyuk had a goal that immediately made highlight reels across the country, while Dan Cleary, Henrik Zetterberg (2), and Patrick Eaves all added tallies of their own.
San Jose received goals from Dany Heatley, Benn Ferriero, and Ryane Clowe, with Joe Thornton picking up his 500th point as a Shark on Heatley's tally.
Although the Worcester Three were on the wrong end of the scoresheet for most of the night (something we'll get to later), Sharks Head Coach Todd McLellan cited his more experienced veterans as the ones who didn't deliver in the matchup against the Red Wings.
"I thought for the most part they [Braun, Joslin, Moore] held their own. I look at our overall game and the overall team, I thought we were missing three or four guys who could have made a huge impact on the game," McLellan said during his press conference. "It wasn't the young defenseman, it was a couple guys we count on. When we're in this situation we need them. And we are going to need them in Ottawa. They have to find a way to contribute a little bit more."
The Sharks found themselves in a familiar place early, victims of a Daniel Cleary power play goal just 4:50 into the game. Braun, who played his fair share of minutes shorthanded tonight at 2:52, was caught high in the zone overplaying the puck carrier. After the feed went across the ice, Dan Cleary, who was parked right in front of Antero Niittymaki, benefitted from an easy tap in to put the Red Wings up 1-0.
Just 3:11 later, Detroit cashed in again. Pavel Datsyuk made a beautiful move to get behind the Sharks defense, slipping one past Niittymaki and putting the Sharks down by two. At that point, HP Pavilion seemed drained, as electric as earlier in the day when the building lost power for eight hours.
Life returned, albeit for a short while, after Joe Thornton banked a puck off Dany Heatley and past Jimmy Howard on the Sharks first power play opportunity of the evening. It was Thornton's 500th point as a Shark, and the goal an encouraging sign given the Sharks recent struggles on the power play. The team would finish the night one for two on the man advantage.
Those three goals would make up the scoring in the first. The Sharks, although beaten twice on the scoreboard, dominated the shot clock to the tune of 15-9.
The second period would mirror the first however, as Henrik Zetterberg scored just 2:38 in. Although the tally will go into the books as an even strength marker, it was scored just four seconds after a tripping minor to Logan Couture. Detroit's passing game had the Sharks spinning all night, and this power play was no exception; the Sharks struggled to clear the puck, let alone get a line change.
Credit to the Sharks third line, though, for answering back quickly. Ben Ferriero scored a highlight reel goal, going hard to the net and getting one past Howard.
"I just tried to get in front of the net and get some of those dirty goals and luckily the puck was there for me to put in," Ferriero said. "Detroit has a bunch of big strong guys in front of the net, and they're getting older and know what to do in front of the net. You've just got to fight for your space and find loose pucks there."
It was Ferriero's second goal in his current two game stint with the NHL club; as he did during last year's training camp, Ferriero is making a case to stick with the team going forward.
That momentum was lost when Patrick Eaves pounded the puck past Niittymaki with just 10 second left in the period. A glaring mistake by Braun, who attempted to leave the zone too early, led to the tally. The Red Wings successfully tilted the ice after each of the Sharks' markers, making it difficult for San Jose to build any type of momentum. With a late second period goal, the Red Wings turned a close game into an uphill battle for the teal and white.
Even still, the game was close in terms of possession time and shots heading into the third frame. After the late second period goal, however, Detroit didn't let up. The Wings possessed the puck for the majority of the third, getting another score from Zetterberg (his fourth point on the night) to put the game completely out of reach.
Ryane Clowe added his fifth goal of the season with 2:32 left, but at that point it was too late. The Sharks pulled Niittymaki shortly thereafter, but couldn't generate opportunities with their six star players on the ice.
As we mentioned before tonight's game, Justin Braun has impressed us with his ability to move the puck up the ice and get shots through from the point. Tonight he struggled at some notable moments however, getting victimized on a couple of bad reads and poor decisions with the puck. It's something that every young defenseman goes through early in his career, and when you're seeing 19:28 against the best team in the Western Conference, there's not a lot of places you can hide.
Derek Joslin and Mike Moore were on the ice for far less goals than Braun, seeing 12:50 and 10:22 in ice time respectively. Joslin played well in his limited minutes, showcasing some nifty lateral movement to get the puck through traffic on Ferriero's second goal, as well a a physicality along the boards that has begun to blossom as his professional career progresses. Moore stayed away from some of the more notable Wings forwards, finishing with only a -1, but made a glaring error on the fifth goal that led to a 5-2 Detroit lead. With Boyle open behind the net waiting for the puck, Moore attempted to squeeze an outlet pass up center ice.
It was something Detroit head coach Mike Babcock had clearly identified before the game as an area where the Red Wings could flourish.
""I just thought that the big this is that we were able to take advantage of their defense tonight. We knew coming in that was going to be an issue for them, and we spent some minutes in their zone" Babcock said. "It was a good road win for us and starts off the trip the way you want."
Babcock's game plan of going after the Worcester Three was apparent from the opening whistle. Blanketing the young Sharks defenseman with two forecheckers when they had the puck, compared to a less aggressive formation when Boyle or Vlasic had the puck, was something the precision based Wings had no problem executing. Furthermore, in most zone entries off a dump in, the puck would be placed on Braun's side, a style distinctly different than when one of the more experienced Sharks defensemen were placed in the same situation.
However, as McLellan mentioned, San Jose got what they could reasonably expect out of their young defenseman tonight. Braun's errors were glaring, but this does not mean he isn't ready to compete for a lower pairing slot and do so effectively-- his outlet pass to Dany Heatley in the first period that sprung the sniper on a two on one, as well as his ability to get his shots through from the point, all indicate a player that has the potential to deliver tangible results for the Sharks.
As we mentioned during the game, it's going to up and down on a shift by shift basis for Braun (as well as Joslin) this year as they get further acclimated to the speed of the NHL game. It's something veteran defenseman Dan Boyle saw as a learning experience for the young trio as he spoke about the advice he would give to them following tonight.
"I probably won't say anything tonight, just talk to them all tomorrow. I'm more of a as it happens type of guy," said Boyle. "I'll say a few things they can work on. The biggest thing is just to try to keep them calm and tell them to play their game."
But aside from avoiding the rush to lay blame on the Sharks young players, it's safe to say tonight's performance is one that sets up what could be a pivotal road trip to start December. The Sharks head to Ottawa, Montreal, Detroit, Philadelphia, and Buffalo for the next five tilts-- all big games against tough opponents, and one that will test the Sharks depleted defensive core even more.
The positives are that the Western Conference is as tight as ever-- the Sharks only lie a few points out of a playoff seed, and have sixty games to get there.
The negatives are that they're in a position that requires them to fight through injuries and still accrue points to keep up with the rest of the pack. And although the young defenseman aren't to blame for the loss entirely, it's going to be quite the uphill battle in the next ten days for San Jose to get the team-wide performances they need.
With consistency still an issue, tonight didn't answer any questions on what Sharks team we can expect to see in December.
This road trip however, just might.
"We have to get our legs back underneath us, we've got a long flight. I think we have to recognize and understand that there has been some Western Conference teams that have made this trip already and haven't had a lot of success," McLellan said. "We have to prepare ourselves for tough games in tough buildings. We're going to have to polish our game up on the trip, get some guys healthy, and find a few extra players who are healthy already wearing the uniform."
Go Sharks.
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figured out what's wrong
bench is too obsessed with teeth
KEEPER OF CAPSLOCK AND TEETH, FANGIRL REPRESENTATION ON FTF
by ninakix on Dec 1, 2010 12:29 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
I saw this pic, laughed a bit, and thought, “Nina”. Then I looked at who posted it. XD
Cheers Nina!
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
needs moar going to the red wing side of the ice!
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
unfortunately...
that didnt happen last night :/
KEEPER OF CAPSLOCK AND TEETH, FANGIRL REPRESENTATION ON FTF
She is the keeper of teeth! Not only that, my mother is a retired dental hygienist, and she actually had me pause the DVR so she could have a good look at Logan’s teeth! She says they are spectacular!
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
That’s a little creepy, but yeah the guy has some amazing teeth.
The only crying allowed in hockey is when you lose a playoff series, retire or JR is speaking publicly -Jamie Baker
by ZombieSkittles on Dec 1, 2010 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
She spent her entire career cleaning teeth for a living, and arthritis forced her to quit and find a job elsewhere. She now works for the California DMV Mandatory Actions department, where she handles the calls of convicted drunk drivers (many getting out of prison for worse crimes) trying to get their licenses back. She has been called everything from “Arnold’s whore” to “Galloping bitchcunt”. I think she longs for the days when all she had to do was scold people about not flossing and the risk of cavities and root canals.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
omg who the hell would call anyone that?!
Has she thought of becoming a receptionist at a dentist’s office? There has to be something better than the DMV for her :(
The only crying allowed in hockey is when you lose a playoff series, retire or JR is speaking publicly -Jamie Baker
by ZombieSkittles on Dec 1, 2010 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
No accounting for the lows of humans – just read an article the other day that a shopper at Wal-mart pushed a 100-year-old greeter there. Just no such thing as kindness or decency anymore. :(
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
I was at the game tonight and there's one thing I can say...
There were WAY too many Red Wing fans there tonight. The tank shouldn’t be that loud when Detroit scores a goal. I had a drunk wing fan in the bathroom tell me that, “The Sharks are right there, they’ll get there eventually.” It took a lot of restraint to not punch the guy.
Despite how much I hate the Red Wings and their fans, I love their puck movement. Even with a healthy Demers, Wallin, and Huskins, the Sharks wouldn’t have been able to beat the Wings. They might’ve been 6 points apart coming into tonight’s contest, but it was pretty much a game of men vs boys. The way the Red Wings dominated the second period with their puck possession was actually quite mesmerizing.
I think Drew brought up a good point tonight. The Sharks’ have great forecheck, but are unable to keep the pressure in the opposing zone because their defensemen can’t consistently put the puck on goal. I think that’s why it’s encouraging to see players like Braun and Joslin get shots on net and get rewarded, and why it’s frustrating to see Vlasic and Murray develop Errorhoff-like accuracy.
I’m frustrated with tMac’s constantly switching the lines up. After every loss, tMac switches the lines up. It’s like a last-ditch effort or panic move he makes to reverse the team’s fortunes when it’s clear it’s only to disguise what the Sharks have been doing wrong. In the final analysis, it’s a short term fix; if even. Against Ottawa, we’ll see a different set of line combos with Marleau on a different line.
The problems the Sharks have had won’t be solved during their long road trip. From tMac’s comments, I infer that he knows this as well. They need time to hash out their problems over an extended gap between games at Sharks Ice. Yes, it’s still early in the season. No, I’m no panicking. But the sooner the Sharks can right the ship, it prevents Doug Wilson from pulling his own panic switch move and orchestrating a mega deal to ship out part of this team’s core to keep this team in the hunt.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
Reminded
it was pretty much a game of men vs boys
Your comment, dead on, reminded me of a similar situation, the first game vs Edm, where the Sharks were the men vs the Oiler boys.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
I think Drew brought up a good point tonight. The Sharks’ have great forecheck, but are unable to keep the pressure in the opposing zone because their defensemen can’t consistently put the puck on goal. I think that’s why it’s encouraging to see players like Braun and Joslin get shots on net and get rewarded, and why it’s frustrating to see Vlasic and Murray develop Errorhoff-like accuracy.
I think this is the one piece I agreed with here – I like the switching up the lines to help the sharks find who they’re having chemistry with and making sure that we have the flexibility to match up depending on who we’re playing.
I suppose we won’t have much success on our road trip, but I do feel like there are glimmers of hope: demers getting back will be a good thing, and I think Murray has been more offensive and had more of an attempt to get the puck to the net, which is a first step to actually being able to move it forward through the offensive zone.
KEEPER OF CAPSLOCK AND TEETH, FANGIRL REPRESENTATION ON FTF
Agreed.
Another comment he made was the puck clearing…something I’d been screaming about a lot. We always seem to clear to the side opposite our bench, making the line change race across the ice to catch the puck. Why we can’t cross some of those over or pass in is beyond me.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
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Clearing to the benches
Risks too many men. You’d also be clearing it towards the other team.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
nonono...not clearing to benches....
just not clearing it all the way around to a point of tactical disadvantage. gets hard to watch. Drew was on that problem as well.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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Despite how much I hate the Red Wings and their fans, I love their puck movement
Agreed. You’re so right. As much as I hate their fans man I love their team. They are so awesome on the passing and playing such a tight flawless game. Even if they mussed up a little they fixed the situation immediately. As I was feeling all down in the mouth about playing in our zone too much; I got to appreciate how great of a team they are and I hate myself for that. It’s not like we played a horrible game they were just better than us last night.
Yes so many Red Wings fan is right! They were EVERYWHERE, though most of them during intermission were really nice to me I still couldn’t handle the fact that it was SO loud when they scored. Also, I said this on Twitter last night but did anyone else see that guy in the Red Wings jersey Lidstrom or Zetterberg I don’t remember also wearing a Sharkhead hat…I was just appalled. Apparently,were the purple jacket people they were teasing him a bit about that.
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
I respect MOST of the team. There are definitely players on that team I do not like. However, you can’t deny they are really good at what they do, but it shouldn’t really come as a shock. They’ve been doing it for years now, same play, same strategy same eurrrything. There are ways to beat them (as evident in the series last playoffs) but they require all your players to be playing well if not amazing, something we did not have last night. Their style is a very simple player friendly style, it requires doing some hard things of course, but its mainly a discipline thing. That is why they are perennially consistent, you plug in people that have to do X, Y, and Z. Thats it. It would be nice to see that same level of consistency out of the sharks :(
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
I've seen them plenty on TV
but its so different live….they’re just kinda amazing :/ but you’re right their game doesn’t seem difficult but it just gets us everytime we don’t grind. I’m sure if we laid on the bodies like we did in CHI we would have gotten WAY better chances of playing in their zone instead of ours. Shit, we might have even won. Sometimes it felt like if someone just hipchecked the puck holder it would pop out from under them and we could capitalize but no bodies were really being thrown around. //wah!!!! Ok i’m done bitching for the day…we played well but not well enough /sigh
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Yeap this, there we a few mistakes, but not too much horrible play. It was more they capitalized on our mistakes. That being said, a different strat than was used was probably in order, and probably what we will see in the Joe.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
>.< shhhh noo not the joe....
but all kidding aside. Oh yea, we definitely need a diff strategy…I hope we don’t use last night’s strategy ever again….because it was clear as day it didn’t work.
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
It works against some teams, but not against good ones like the Red Wings, but that leads to being lazy and not consistent….so i guess I’m with you. NO MOAR OF DAT STRATEGERY
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
I guess it works against the Oilers...
and sometimes the Kings…depends on which Kings show up. But, aye!!! No more of that.
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
Agree with you there...
…I’m still in awe over Datsyuk’s solo attack last night. That was amazing puck handling. May have been one of the sharpest puck plays I’ve ever seen.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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they shouldn't have let him get that close
but it was pretty…. :/
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
agreed on both.
Skill is something I admire…even in mortal enemies ;-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
Have many damn times will our master bard have to instill into you Doug Wilson aint getting bamboozled? If I see a horrendous trade come deadline time, I will be more prone to blame SVSE for rushing DW into a move, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
Forechecking by the Sharks was downright scary at times tonight. They kept the Wings deep in their own zone pretty well, but it was pretty clear that they’re missing the blueliners to back up that kind of forecheck. Long outlet passes and chips over the three forechecking forwards exposed a D-corps that was just a step below where they needed to be for quick decision-making.
Is this McClelland’s doing? There weren’t so many obvious odd-man rushes, but there were enough near-odd-mans in the neutral zone which allowed the Wings to establish possession in the Sharks’ zone and set up. I don’t feel as though the young guys on the blue line can be blamed as much, since even experienced defensemen usually won’t be expected to do so much of the heavy lifting at their own blue line without more support from their forwards. So is the coaching strategy just throw it all aggressively at the opponents’ net and hope that they’re not skilled enough to break out from under the pressure, so however many goals you give up is ok since you’re likely to score more?
Or was this more a performance in a vacuum?
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 1, 2010 1:18 AM PST reply actions
Apologies
*McLellan
I should know that – he hasn’t been an ex-Wings assistant coach that long.
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 1, 2010 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
give credit where credit is due.
I think Detroit just exploited the Sharks’ flaws tonight better than most teams. So in a sense, yes, tonight’s result was in a vacuum. More than the Vancouver game, I think this game really highlighted the Sharks’ system flaws. Of course, that may have been magnified with half the blue line being Worcester kids.
Detroit showed tonight it was very good at transitioning from defense to offense, which is characteristic of many of the teams with a solid number of offensive d-men like Pittsburgh, Atlanta, and so forth. With the Sharks defenders unable to consistently get pucks on goal, instead those pucks ring around the boards and cause the forwards and defensemen to abandon their offensive scheme and battle for possession. Detroit’s d-men are all very mobile at competing for loose pucks and very good passers at starting the opposing rush. With San Jose’s forwards caught deep in the opposing zone, there were certainly more odd-man rushes tonight than I’ve seen on average this season.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
by Will Bulldozer on Dec 1, 2010 1:36 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed. They planned to exploit the kids, and did it well.
…If the tables were reversed, we would have done the same thing.
In a way we did—last season.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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This is pretty much what this team is this year
There’s just no cohesiveness between the forwards and the defenseman. There’s no concept of a 5-man unit.
Some of that is the obvious downgrade in the defensive core. Rob Blake provided a lot of flexibility because of his ability to play in all zones, but there’s also been a marked regression in the play of Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Dan Boyle. Boyle is showing signs of wear as he’s playing about 70 minutes a night. Vlasic is just playing timid again. Also, teams like the Wings torch Douglas Murray, because he’s very very slow. Add in 3 rookie d-men who are going up against one of the best puck possession teams in the business, and you pretty much get what you saw last night. No margin for error, and punishment with goals against.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Well said...
Yeah, this is the Sharks this year. Inconsistant on offense, downright brutal on defense, decent goaltending that’s getting no help. Leads to inconsistant hockey. And it also leads to consistantly good teams being able to exploit the shit out of our weaknesses. And it all comes back to the blueline. If we had competant defenders (and this falls on everyone), the offense could be more assertive, hopefully more shots would get on net (the blueline shooters have been terrrrrrrrible), and be able to get back and defend the transition. The Sharks are doing none of this, so its no surprise that they’re a below-.500 team right now.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
The more I think about it
The more I do agree that the forwards could be helped by a more integrated D. In which case, yes, the blue-line trade is absolutely vital. All of the D have been serviceable, but it’s clear we need something a step above serviceable.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Honestly, I think we need a top pairing shutdown guy AND a second pairing puck mover. And we need them early enough in the season that they have time to both integrate into our team AND be helpful enough to get us back into the playoff race.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
Kaberle
Is the puck mover you speak of. We’d have to trade Seto and perhaps Clowe to get him though. And he’s an UFA next year and may very well want to stay in Toronto (why, I don’t know, they suck every year). As for that shutdown guy you covet, I’m not sure any team will give one up, unless he’s an UFA next season. Why aren’t our D better? Why haven’t they developed better. Marc-Edward is looking more and more like an average D-man, with an expensive contract. I see ZERO offense in his game.
Kaberle WAS the puck carrier I wanted…until Burke asked for the World, and then Kaberle’s NTC kicked in again. He’s off the table as far as I’m concerned.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 2, 2010 9:51 AM PST up reply actions
Murray was definitely the most markedly underwhelming of the Sharks in that game last night.
I thought Braun had some very good potential though.
by J.J. from Kansas on Dec 1, 2010 11:00 AM PST up reply actions
We love us some Murray when he's on
He’s effective against teams that like to play physical because he’s just impossible to move off the puck. He can be a dominant defenseman. But against the more nimble teams with high levels of puck and player movement, he just can’t keep up, and he’s prone to some spectacularly bad reads in those situations. Overall, he helps more than he hurts, but if you take the season a game at a time, there are nights when he’s a liability.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Murray would be a very, very good 3rd pairing defenseman. Unfortunately, we’re asking him to play top pairing minutes and matchups. More casualities of how our blueline is constructed.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
I think he could be a good 2nd pairing guy really. Vlasic is just a better 2nd pairing guy.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Dec 1, 2010 9:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Imagine if our blueline was good enough to put Murray on the 3rd pairing, though!
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:30 PM PST up reply actions
Mostly agree...
…although the “new” post-injury Murray seems anything but slow.
I hope it lasts. The guy is a beast when he has afterburners.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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I think this road trip
makes or breaks the Sharks’ season. If they can hold steady, or win most of the games, then it will show that they can stage a Conference comeback, once the deficiencies are dealt with. If, however, they lose most or all of them, they will have dug themselves into a “Duck Hole” (referring to last year’s Ana.), and will struggle the rest of the season to try to play catch-up.
Remember, the teams that are ahead of the Sharks in the standings, also play each other, so someone is going to get the 2 pts. in those games. That is what can make a Duck Hole so dangerous to a team’s season.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
Over the last two weeks I’ve been a big proponent of the lack of a trade market for the Sharks, a market that doesn’t fit in line with what DW has shown over his tenure as GM— an unwillingness to be backed into a deal, to be forced to make a blockbuster move.
If this road trip comes out a stinker though, which it just might, I think that puts Wilson in a spot where he might try and really shake things up with a big move. I’m still putting all my thoughts together for tomorrow on the subject, but I agree with your assertion that this road trip is a big one for the team. And one that could have consequences for the roster if things go poorly.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Wilson constantly puts himself in a position of weakness on trades by waiting until the deadline. We love his big trades, but he has repeatedly given up too much at the deadline when bidding wars are common.
I really don’t understand how he can be so frugal the rest of the year and spend so freely at the deadline.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Dec 1, 2010 9:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If/when he does make a move, it’ll probably be as a surprise player as his signing Nitty was. It seemed no one expected that at all. The “big names” are too expensive, and, not doing anything is proving expensive. But, DW will do what DW will do. Thus is his way, no matter the attitude or anxieties of the fans.
Maybe he can off Niemi behind the Board’s backs.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
Awesome. So you’re saying we can get the next Wallin! Hooray! Problem solved! (Ah, yes, we’ve reached the main issue I have with DWs deadline deals…).
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 2, 2010 9:52 AM PST up reply actions
Did anyone think Hjalmersson was on the radar before he signed our offer sheet?
Also, a healthy Wallin is a good (not great) shutdown defenseman for this team, as was made pretty clear against Detroit.
I liked him and thought the Sharks should target him.
But he wasn’t as high on the other list as other Free Agents.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Dec 2, 2010 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
Hmm… There were definitely glaring holes in the D, but there were some people who didn’t show up at all – unfortunately Logan played terribly this game, which was frustrating to watch. Pavelski and Marleau were all but silent. Certainly this made it difficult, because that would compromise an entire line – and especially b/c, looking at the +/- all three of those guys were at -3. Unusual because Pavs and Couture tend tobe usually more defensively minded.
At least Torrey played well – he was a +2, and had some really good chances and whatnot, but just couldn’t seem to get control of the puck and get a good shot in. Frustrating. But he also only had 13min of icetime – compared to Marleau, Couture, and Pavelskis, which were higher (except couture who only had 16m).
Even with a patchwork D, it would have been interesting to see these guys do better, and there were a few turnovers I felt like we could do without on these guys’ part.
KEEPER OF CAPSLOCK AND TEETH, FANGIRL REPRESENTATION ON FTF
Marleau was so unusual last night
we had no clue what the heck he was doing out there. Maybe he missed his hockey nap. He was always just a step behind to make you cover your face in shame…ugh I’d like to delete this game from my memory.
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
Patty is a -11 for the season
Maybe this isn’t unusual?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
A lot of key guys are pretty deep in the minus hole as well (Jumbo, JoePa, Pickles, etc..) I think its due to overall poor play on everyones part
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
And you’re probably right on Patty’s numbers being skewed. But when I combine that with some of the key faceoffs he seems to have lost, as well as his continuing high number of minutes, and his salary, I feel much less charitable to Patty than a lot of the other culprits on the team.
Patty is being paid to be the Man, and to be honest, as much as I love his accomplishments in Teal, I really don’t believe he’s ever been the Man. Yes yes, his numbers are good, and they’re comparable to Iginla’s in the playoffs, yada yada yada. But the only thing Marleau and Iginla have in common is that it appears they’re both on a downward slide in their career. And Iginla has never had Patty’s supporting cast.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
As much as I love Marleau and I am probably the biggest apologist of his out there, I’m going to have to agree, he hasn’t been the man. However, I would say hes been flashes of the man. He hasnt taken the team on his shoulders and carried them all the way, hes given them piggy-back rides here and there but hasnt been the force to be reckoned with we all want him to be. The only thing I would temper here is that with the arrival of Jumbo, this has been Joe’s team, no longer solely Patty’s.
Furthermore, I look at things like his shot percentage and its abysmal compared to his season averages. Now this might be a trend, it might be a funk, only the end of the season will tell, but I find it hard to believe a guy sets back to back career years in numbers (Gs, As, Pts, and shot percentage) and then plummets to nothing? I know its possible, but its so hard to believe.
I think he turns it around, hopefully really soon.
I also think a more solid D corps helps him out a lot, lets him use his speed more through the neutral zone without having to worry that hes leaving his team out to dry if he does so because the pass to him will be picked off 98% of the time.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
I disagree with Iginla’s supporting cast. He’s had arguably better goaltending and a consistently better defense than Patty has had. Patty has had a better forward cast, but this year really shows what no back end will get you.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Dec 1, 2010 9:47 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's right
In today’s NHL it is imparitive that you have a solid defence. Both in moving the puck and in a shutdown mode. Because of Rob Blake, we were just good enough in both catagories, with Nabby stealing some games last year. But in the playoffs we were exposed against Chicago and their speed, puck possession, toughness around the net and excellent defense (and lucky goal tending, Niemi is not that good).
I guess I didn't notice it really until last night
I mean its pretty big damn glaring since I noticed it…there were a lot of Oh Pattys last night :I
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
I almost wondered if he was on the roster. That's how noticeable he was.
There were really only 3 standouts: Thornton, Heater, and Ferriero.
And out left out to dry (G). Even Murray seemed off.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
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And Clowe.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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Yea this game I think the Marleau – Cooch – Pavs line were supposed to be our defensive forwards line to protect our young D-men. That didn’t quite work out. Patty was behind on reading the play, pavs was battling but often lost said battles, and Cooch was trying to hang on by his very teeth (heh) to Datsyuk (I hear that guy is kinda good).
All in all, not a good game, but a pretty bad strat. I think we should have tried to push the pace with the Red Wings more (like we did in the first) and strong forecheck keeps the puck in the Red Wing’s zone and means less pressure on our D. Seemed like we were more worried about not getting scored on to take an initiative which ironically caused us to be scored on more.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Is it just me
or does it sound like TMac is intentionally lowering expectations in that last quote? If that’s the case, uh-oh.
I don't blame him...
The fans around this team still have Stanley Cup expectations…and we are not a Stanley Cup caliber team. Lowering expectations will prevent riots from happening when things don’t go as “expected.”
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
Rematch
Sharks looked good at times last night ,but lets see how well they play thru some key injuries, dosent help you got rid of HABBI. At this point the Sharks have a 22% of making the playoffs. I for one hope you make it. GET HEALTHY ,GET IN I WANT PLAYOFF REVENGE
Umm...Nabby, but yeah, I agree.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
What a frustrating game to watch last night. Puck possession was awful in the 2nd half of the game. I was actually surprised that the Wings didn’t score more than 5.
Having a Joslin/Moore pairing is brutal, especially playing against Detroit.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
*sigh*
I just felt deflated in the 3rd period of that game at HP. Didn’t help that I was near 4 obnoxious Red Wings fans as well. Marleau can’t corral (sp?) a pass worth his life lately… passing across the board is subpar. Defense just can’t match up to “high caliber” teams offense- even with good ol Huskins and Wallin playing (and IMO, I don’t think they would have been much help last night either).
On a positive note- Torrey continues to play well with grit and speed. Heatley looked alright- Jumbo had some bright moments as well. I still saw some good things from Braun even though there were quite a few “rookie” mistakes but honestly- I see Huskins and Wallin make those fairly often and they are vets.
Just looking forward to Ottawa tomorrow! Hoping Heater scores a hat trick and we shut the Sens down to start off a great road trip.
another positive
CLOWE CRASHED THE NET AND GOT A GOAL! I could be so wrong about that because the guy in front of me had a huge head. Too bad it was too late and i was too sad to cheer for my fav player and his ’stache Bob…and yes I hope the Heat turns on the snipe tomorrow.
by mssjsclowie29 on Dec 1, 2010 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
Clowe had a good game all around, one of the few sharks that did actually. He was constantly going to the body, he was cycling well, he was due. I’m glad he got the goal. Unfortunately, almost no one else was as ready for this game. Damn this hockey thing being a team sport.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
I think most of the negatives I'd bring up have been well described already.
So I’ll stick to the positives. There was net crashing for the first time in what feels like forever. Clowe, Braun, Heater, Couture, and Ferriero all committed to it. Even Jumbo and Boyle got in on the act some and once Vlasic (!) did too. It didn’t earn the win this game, but it would definitely make a difference against middling teams.
Point shots were a lot more accurate than they’ve been and they occurred, which is far more than we’ve gotten in some games.
We need to get healthy. We need to stop laying back and mailing games in. And we still need a top 3/4 d-man. But maybe some of the positives from last night can start to form the basis of the turn-around.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
by Auth0r on Dec 1, 2010 10:43 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Does anyone actually think a healthy blueline would have made any difference?
I mean, are Huskins and Wallin that awesome against the Wings that it would have made a difference? It’s not like those two are fast or anything and wouldn’t have gotten burned…and it’s not like they’re amazing defenders that would have stopped the tic tac toe passing of the Wings. Maybe it would have been 4-2 instead of 5-3…but really, the Wings are just a better team, and built to exploit teams with weak bluelines.
I, for one, am terrified of this roadtrip. Looking at the schedule, our blueline, and how we’ve played on the road this year, I see, maybe 1 winnable game? That really could be a death knell for this team.
Ugh, it’s just so fucking frusterating. I mean, I know this team isn’t very good…I’ve suspected as much since the offseason…but I really didn’t expect this. I mean, they are really bad. Like, Ducks from last year bad. And the worst part is that no one in the front office seems to care (pure speculation and poor word choice…but I’m ranting, give me a break). I mean, if the Sharks are serious about competing…and not just for a playoff spot, but for a Stanley Cup, as they claim…they need to make moves NOW to shore up the blueline. I mean, they’ve backed themselves into a corner where they NEED to make moves (more than 1, most likely), and other teams know that. But we have limited Cap space, and limited tradable assets. I guess that’s what happens when you make your offseason moves based on what will sell tickets and what you think you can market rather than what can win on the ice (I’m referring to the Marleau and Niemi deals, specifically).
But I fear that if we don’t have at least two new top-4 D men by the end of 2010, we won’t be making the playoffs (not just struggle to make, like I have been claiming, but actually won’t make it). At which point…maybe it’s better to start rebuilding. I dunno. This team inspires very little confidence right now.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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I don't have many words of solace
Save for this:
Doug Wilson’s notorious tight-lipped nature is probably why the front-office “doesn’t seem to care.”
He’s been on record as saying he has until the trade deadline to finish constructing this team. The offer sheet to Hjalmarsson and the negotiations with Mitchell imply Wilson will still acquire the right player for the right price. And, given the way he views things, he may be in the market for a checking center as well to make the overall team defensive scheme more sound.
And, sometimes, you have to give to get. I wouldn’t get too attached to anyone on the roster right now. Methinks anyone and everyone is expendable.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Obviously “doesn’t seem to care” is just a phrase born out of frusteration. But you said it in your post:
He’s been on record as saying he has until the trade deadline to finish constructing this team.
I don’t think he does have until the deadline this year. The team he has currently constructed isn’t good enough to stay in the playoff hunt over the long haul, it seems. If he waits until, when is the deadline, february? to make a move, we could be 20 points out by then. At which point, the deadline deals might have to be ones to ship out players to contending teams and rebuilding our farm system.
I dunno. I know DW is tight lipped. But I also know he doesn’t ever tend to go for the high profile players, or the top end players, unless he’s screwing someone over. He never even seems willing to do an even trade (like, say, a Seto for Goligoski kind of deal). And if he sticks to his guns, and how he’s currently been constructing teams…well, I’m not sure he’s going to find anyone who will deal with him this time around. At least not for the caliber of players we need to make this team good again…
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Agree on the need to move before the deadline
But the sad reality of this season is just that no one will be available I think. At least, not to us.
Yes, White and Hannan moved, but I don’t think either of them were going to improve us. They just would have been new bodies and new contracts.
Honestly, our best hope is for negotiations in LA and Chicago to break down so that Doughty or Seabrook can be offer sheeted in the off season. I really have no other notion of what could help us.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think White would have improved us immensely…he’s a very solid player on both ends of the ice and would have immediately been our second best D man (behind Boyle).
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Well, DW isn’t an idiot. I don’t think he believes the team will magically rocket to home-ice in the first round after the trade deadline. His “trade deadline” comment was, I believe, a response to people who wanted him to do do something before the season started about our D.
I said before this season that with the new goalies and changes on D, we were going to take a step back. And that I’d see how were doing before Christmas before I hit the panic button.
I think we’ve seen what this group of players can do, and how our thin defense can’t handle any injury disruptions. Ask the Red Wings from last year how making up ground and extra minutes on D works out come playoff time. If there isn’t a significant trade between now and MLK day, I’ll be surprised.
Right now
There’s no one on this roster whose jersey I want. It feels that bad.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That’s depression talking. Jumbo and Marleau are trying too hard, I think, to make up for our weak D. But they’re not going anywhere, nor is Pavs or Heater or Boyle or Couture.
Everyone else should be feeling a little antsy.
That’s depression talking. Jumbo and Marleau are trying too hard, I think, to make up for our weak D. But they’re not going anywhere, nor is Pavs or Heater or Boyle or Couture.
I’d probably throw Demers in there as well, but definitely agree with this list— the Sharks won’t be moving any of them.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I think Murray is improving as well...
…but when it comes to Wilson, trades, and terms, I never pretend to know how his head works. Other than it won’t go where I’d have thought it would.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
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I still want a Jumbo jersey. And Couture.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Get Juicy as the name and his number, then you’ll be easy to spot :)
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
I think a healthy blue-line would have helped, and we might might might have been able to eek out a win, but I dont think it would have been likely or even probable.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe..?
I was curious to know where the Sharks stood last season at the end of Nov with goals for and against. 96 for 75 against compared to now 68 for 68 against. This unnatural look of our offense on the ice is really due to the fact the forwards are playing out of their comfort zone to help with defensive resposibilties. I think they are growing and these games are pains of that, and when we do get that wonderful trade for a defenseman this team will be hard to play against. Why did Chicago sweep us last year, their D was sound and their forwards played hard in their own end.. Im trying to pull the bright side out, but I think this growth will help, just hope its a growth spurt and the trade happens this month.
I gotta be honest
It never looks like the forwards are playing much D.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
True
Im hoping thats what they are doing, but if they are not helping with that then what are they doing? Are they outworked that much in every game and if thats the case, no one should be sheltered from a trade. There is too much money tied up in the big 3 for them to be just skating.
I view it as this: Have you ever been in a position where a massive project falls into your lap, one that is supposed to involve many other people but for whatever reason no one but you is doing the work. Once that realization starts to set in, you start to panic and when it finally comes crashing down on you, you just freeze. I think thats whats happening to the sharks forwards. They’re realizing they can not count on their D for pretty much anything, and the more and more they see of it the more and more they freeze from the seeming overwhelmingness of the situation. Unfortunately, thats the worst thing ever, as staying calm helps far more than any panic, but thats just my take on it
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:34 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I see what you are saying, and that makes good sense. Panic helps as much as procrastination, as time slips by both grow. A decision has to be made, and I look forward to that…My first thought was maybe their still on strike for signing Niemi…
I still believe....
I mean, its the season for believing, right? So I will keep the faith… even if its a little too late, I will still root on the guys in Teal….. _
Just cause I think it'll cheer people up a little:
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Dec 1, 2010 1:05 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I was kind of expecting that to include Corey Perry.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Well, it wouldn't be Setoguchi.
He’s from Western Canada, and all…
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I really really like that movie. Its actually pretty awesome.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:08 PM PST up reply actions
Man watching those clips I can really understand why people dislike soccer. Bleh, those are horrid showings for the game. This coming from a die hard soccer fan and player since I was like 6
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Rofl @ soccer...
This is the main reason I hate soccer…
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
The guy whiffing on the shot
And then sprawling with nobody around is by far my favorite. What a joke.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
For sake of balance, can I offer up this moment of brilliance for your perusal?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5HbmeNKino&NR=1
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
Randy Hahn: "That is one angry Swedish person."
I’m reading this on the mobile so I can’t watch the clip, but I’m guessing ’86 and a certain cheating Argentine git…
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
Randy Hahn: "That is one angry Swedish person."
by BritShark on Dec 1, 2010 3:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Still, if it is what I think it is, it’s the greatest solo strike of all time.
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
Randy Hahn: "That is one angry Swedish person."
by BritShark on Dec 1, 2010 3:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So REC'd
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
Redo it with hockey divers.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
I hate to bring this up, but does anyone else feel that McLellan's time has come?
I’m not saying that he should get the boot, rather just pointing out some facts. First things first, I can’t stand his constant line shuffling. By switching up the lines so much, nobody is able to build any chemistry with anyone else. Everyone says he’s gotta be good because he comes from a winning franchise in the Red Wings (don’t get me wrong, he has done well – but really who wouldn’t have done well with the teams we have fielded the past two years?) but when have you seen Babcock switch the lines when losing?
One thing that a coach and the leadership (ala Thornton) should do is prepare his team for the game coming up and motivating them. How many times have you seen the Sharks this year come out flat footed and unprepared to work? Let me answer that… besides the LA and Chicago game, very few games.
Furthermore, McLellan seems to be hesitant to call out his “star” players and reward younger players when playing well. Before Setoguchi went out with an injury, he played on the third line and really looked good, surprisingly good (from my standpoint) and really deserved more than the 13 minutes he played.
Two years ago, McLellan was brought in by the Sharks pretty much to do two things. First to get rid of Ron WIlson, and second to improve our power play and penalty kill. Our power play was 4th last year and currently sits at 8th this year. Our penalty kill was 5th last year and currently sits at 16th this year. Based on last year (and assuming that we get back in stride this year in terms of our penalty kill) it can be said that McLellan has done the job that he was brought in to do.
May I suggest three possible replacements: Ted Nolan, Gary Roberts, and Roy Sommer.
I've not been a McLellan fan
But as much as I think he’s not part of the solution, I’ll reiterate a point I made a few weeks ago.
Firing Todd McLellan lets the players off the hook for not performing.
As much as I think he’s not doing his job preparing the team, the team has enough “leaders” (or so we’re constantly told) that they should have no issues coming out motivated for games. I think they were motivated last night, they just weren’t good enough. But I do agree that far too many times, they don’t come out hungry enough or prepared enough or energetic enough. At some point, that has to reflect on the coaching staff as well as the players. It’s a collective problem.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Firing Todd McLellan lets the players off the hook for not performing.
Does it really? I’m in world suggesting this but a Coach like Hitchcock (if you brought him in) wouldn’t let the players off the hook and the players would learn to work and learn that they are never off the hook…
But I have to agree with your points.
Is it really the coach, though?
First Ron Wilson, and then Todd McLellan have both really had very similar teams. And we’ve seen, more or less, similar results. If a coaching change didn’t change the outcome, do you really think another coaching change will?
This is a players issue. They are the ones who need to decide to play hard, to do things the right way, and to fight, scratch, and claw towards victory. And it’s partially a personnel issue. This year’s team has some glaring roster holes that aren’t helping.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
I think Drew said it a couple games back...
When someone sent in a question about how the announcers felt about the coaching staff not getting the most from the team he responded with something like “The boys still need to go over the boards and hold up their end.”
I don’t think McLellan deserves as much leeway as DW does, but I think he needs to be allowed to have a bad year at least once, too. He’s still an awfully new head coach and he clearly needs to continue to develop and advance his style of coaching. It’s rough to watch the growing pains, but it still feels too early to bail out to me.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
He’s still an awfully new head coach and he clearly needs to continue to develop and advance his style of coaching. It’s rough to watch the growing pains, but it still feels too early to bail out to me.
Is this the type of coach that should be had on a team that has been expected to win the Cup for the last three years?
A coach that’s gotten them to the playoffs twice and has a third season in progress?
I’m fine with that.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Not to mention those seasons including the team’s best regular season performance ever, a President’s Trophy, and a match of the furthest this team has ever gone in the playoffs.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
All I know is that if I was being paid $1-7M/year...
…I’d be skating, shooting, and doing drills until my feet were bleeding.
I think that’s why I sometimes go off the deep end when I criticize. It’s not like we’re talking $55k/yr + all the popcorn you can eat.
Well, that and I started it off as a Bruins fan. Ruthless…
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
May I suggest three possible replacements: Ted Nolan, Gary Roberts, and Roy Sommer.
No, no, and no.
This team doesn’t need an us-against-the-world locker room speech, and they don’t need an AHL coach.
Babcock switches up his lines just like McLellan. Like McLellan, he does it to get more offense from other players. Then he reunites the lines and Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Mule puts up 6 points. Sound familiar?
He doesn’t do it like McLellan does. Babcock did it a lot last year due to injury reasons. However, this year he has stuck with a basic structure for his lines (Datsyuk and Zetterberg on the top line, Filppula and Bertuzzi on the second). McLellan switches the lines so frequently that it’s obnoxious..
McLellan doesn’t touch anything when it’s working. This year it’s working for the Wings, thus the lack of change.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He shouldn’t touch anything when it is working… But he should be able to find more consistent scoring as opposed to constantly switching the lines up…
What I’m really wondering is if maybe this year can be for the Sharks like it was for the Penguins in 2008. Dan Bylsma took over mid year and they ended up winning the cup…
Pittsburgh also had an NHL caliber defense...
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
A very key point.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 3:20 PM PST up reply actions
Point taken.
I’m just really frustrated with how this team has been performing this year. The inconsistency is killing me!!!
Join the club!
Seriously though, we’re all with you. Your idea is no further out of left field than anything any of us have suggested. While we might disagree on solutions, I think we’re in pretty unanimous agreement on the problems.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
While we might disagree on solutions
Just watch, I’m about to pull a Buttercrunch!!! I’m just kidding haha…
I’m really just spit-balling about anything that might give this team the spark that it needs. With that being said, we all know this team really needs D and we would most likely have to give up valuable offense for that to happen… Sadly
Kiwicrunch?
Say it ain’t so!
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Andy Greene. (I swear, now I understand Plank and Willie Mitchell.)
But seriously, at least one defender, probably two. I’d be open to revisiting the coaching situation after we try that.
If we could get a defender that is under contract for another year or two, as well, that’d be good. That way some combination of Joslin/Moore/Braun can get sent back the AHL for a little more seasoning and come back next year to be on the bottom pair instead of the then-departed Wallin and Huskins. Or Murray and Demers/Vlasic down there. Either way.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
What’s Greene’s M.O.? Like what type of defender is he?
Eklund rumored that we are talking about Wisniewki and Bauchemin…. So there goes the possibility for those two defenders lol!
He’s primarily a shot-blocker and positional guy, but he’s got enough offensive pop to be on the Devils’ first PP unit. He screens effectively for them and has decent force on his shot. He’s a little small, but he’s willing to hit. Definitely a grit guy with a team-first attitude. Looking back on his stats, he’s been about a 30-point guy consistently at every level.
Realistically, he seems like a piece the Devils would only give up either in desperation or for getting a return they can’t refuse. He’s one of their only producers that is on a reasonable contract, and I think it’s got another year after this. And he’s fairly young for a defenseman. If the Devils weren’t in Cap Hell, I think they might be convinced to give him up for Seto and a few other pieces to move toward rebuilding, but they are where they are.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Sounds pretty much like the defender we would love to have
On a side question, how old is he?
The Devils might actually be willing to take a chance on a (healthy) Setoguchi seeing as how they are one of the lowest goal scoring teams this year!
Twenty-eight and in his fourth year (but only his second full year, as he played a quarter in ‘06-’07, half in ‘07-’08 and three-quarters in ‘08-’09 seasons, I believe). And I was wrong, he’s an UFA after this year. I’m guessing he gets a raise (he’s making 750k) wherever he goes next, though he’s not as proven on the NHL level.
Which might convince the Devils some. They aren’t going to be much less in Cap Hell next year. Especially with having to re-sign Arnott, Lanenbrunner and Parise. So something for the guy they may have to let stroll might be worth it to them.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Langenbrunner.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I would love to have Beauchemin, wouldnt mind getting Kaberle too though :)
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 5:18 PM PST up reply actions
Bauchemin
Is an All-Star type of player when he’s next to Pronger (when they were Ducks), otherwise he’s not that great, and under contract for a few more years at pretty good coin.
I just want to point out
The Kings were nigh unstoppable powerhouses when the season started. Mitchell goes down with a broken wrist and now they can’t win a game to save their lives…
Yes, I still cry about it at night.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I try not to remember that.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I kinda liked the Alex Goligoski idea some Pens fan posted in a fan shot a bit back. A bonified puck mover and skater that could help jumpstart our offense and allow Vlasic to go back to playing just defense.
Also would like a shutdown type (not sure who’s out there) to pair with Boyle, so we could then put Murray on the third pairing with Demers. But that, to me, is less of an issue. I think Wallin-Demers is fine for a third pairing.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
I like Goligoski if we’re getting another d-man to go with him. I don’t think he could solve the problem alone (like I thought White and Mitchell could), but I do think he could be part of the solution.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I’m just of the opinion that we need an offensive D man more than a Defensive D man. Would help us give our D men much more defined roles based on what they are good at.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Fair enough.
I do think giving Vlasic an offensive d-man is more vital than giving Boyle a defensive one.
I’m just concerned that we’ll continue to have to dread the bottom pairing if we don’t get two guys.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Demers-Wallin wouldn’t be awful. Wallin has been solid this year, as has Demers. I wouldn’t fear it.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 1, 2010 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Stop making reasonable points.
It makes it hard to disagree with you.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
I'm just worried that Wallin will be out long term after his injury.
Last year, his injury prior to the playoffs (I think it was his foot) kept nagging him through the summer..
He's on the plane for the road trip, per Brodie Brazil earlier today.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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So, you want lightning to strike twice in the same spot, then? [I know, I know, Robbie Ftorek/Larry Robinson happened, too.]
There was also this kid, pretty good hockey player, name of Crosby. Maybe you’ve heard of him?
If you can point to a game where the coaching was the obvious reason we lost, I’d like to hear about it.
There was also this kid, pretty good hockey player, name of Crosby. Maybe you’ve heard of him?
And we have Thornton, Heatley, and Marleau… Not too shabby I must say… Unless you say otherwise.
If you can point to a game where the coaching was the obvious reason we lost, I’d like to hear about it.
I’m not saying that the Coaching staff has been the reason we are losing, rather that it isn’t adding as much as it could to this team… Can you honestly say that the Sharks have been playing upper tier hockey this season? How do we get them to do so if it isn’t the Coaching? We obviously need help in D (especially with three of out starters out) so how do we play our best with these problems at hand?
Thornton at his tip-top best puts him in the same zip code as Crosby, but Crosby is a once in a generation talent, and can absolutely take over a game singlehandedly.
We’ve not played upper tier hockey this season, I agree. The reasons are complicated, I think. But it starts with our thin d-corp and new goaltenders, and goes somewhere through our weaker checking forwards, with a dash of slump here and there.
The special teams have suffered since Blake retired, getting a big shot from the point would help out the PP. The fact that he juggles the lines can be seen as a last ditch effort when losing, but the players should have as much experience as they can playing in any situation, after all, what happens when one is injuried. You gotta have some familiarity with the players besides the ones on your line.
I hope..
DW dosnt get a wild hair and sign Brian Lee on our way thru Ottawa, http://www.ottawacitizen.com/sports/Senators+defenceman+Brian+clears+wavers+Murray+still+seeking+trade/3912994/story.html
If we had him under contract, it would be funny to trade Cheechoo to the Senators two years in a row.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
That would be kind of hilarious.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
Come on
What organization would trade for the same player twice. You’ve gotta be Jokinnen!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What you did there. I see it. I like it in fact.
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 6:48 PM PST up reply actions
It's even funnier
because his name almost sounds like “joking again”. Just missing a couple syllables.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
Lick our wounds, feel better tomorrow...
…and to help out there:
.
.
Booyah!
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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by Noctro on Dec 1, 2010 6:52 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I do find it interesting that Setoguchi seems to be swimming away
Randy: "So head butting... better than butt patting"
Drew: "Well keep an eye if there's butt patting"
I didn't put Gooch in the pic...?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
I think he means the snowman.
I just talk a lot and somehow accidentally say things that sound smart. It’s all smoke and mirrors, I tell ya.
lol
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
Well it is Fear the Fin, we DO eat our own!
by animadiversion on Dec 1, 2010 10:39 PM PST up reply actions
Calvin and Hobbes will always get a rec from me…
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 2, 2010 9:55 AM PST up reply actions
How old? I mean, we could be the Sharks that struggled to make the 8th seed and may or may not knock off a high seed in the first round before folding. Go back further, and we could be the Sharks team that still has the record for most losses in a season!
The “old Sharks” weren’t nearly as good as the recent incarnations of the Sharks have been…
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Dec 2, 2010 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Ah, but the Darryl Sutter Sharks were grittier! Had heart!
Nolan!
Ricci!
Craven?
Craven!
Marchment!
Sure, they never practiced the power play or any offensive schemes, but they worked hard!
You know what
It was easier to root for them sometimes…
I don’t want another 70 loss season or anything, but I always respected the effort out of those guys.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
It’s always easier to root for the scrappy underdog. The Red Wings are literally the only team where their fans can easily root for them year after year (one of the many reasons their fans can be so annoying—see JJ’s comment the other day about how gratifying it is to be a Wings fan). Once Lidstrom retires, things may get a little harder in Motown.
Frankly, much of the malaise hanging over the comments section here is due to the fact that we have been spoiled by regular season success for a long, long time. Now that the points aren’t coming as regularly, some people here seem to think we suck.
Why Is Anyone Surprised. This Is What This Team Is
The front office did nothing to replace either Blake or Malhotra, two extremely important players for the Sharks last year. Malhotra led the NHL in faceoff percentages won(look at this years faceoff record), and Blake was our leader on defense, the booming shot, always in the right place, bailing out others.
The Sharks are now a middle level team, not a stanley cup contender anymore, that ship has sailed. Lets be honest about our team and what they are. They have given us many thrills over the last five years and only one team can win the cup.
You cannot win consistently in the NHL with a suspect defense and you can’t expect our defense to improve enough this year to challenge for the cup. The Sharks are closer to missing the playoffs than winning the cup. Reality can be a bitch sometimes.
Oh man, I so have a 12 page missive on this.
(in my head)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Noctro is a HORRIBLE stenographer...but he's a GREAT SJ Sharks Fan!!!
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
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