Defending Devin Setoguchi
by TCY on Feb 12, 2010 3:00 AM PST
70 comments
There's been a lot of talk in Sharks chat rooms lately about trades. Ryane Clowe here, Kent Huskins there. It's to be expected at this time of year.
However, when a certain two names come up in trade talks, my blood boils. My skin crawls. I throw up a little in my mouth, and then go on a week long bender.
It really shouldn't get to me... I should feel sorry for the people who suggest these trades. They were most likely dropped on their heads when young or confused asbestos insulation with cotton candy. Something has to explain why people feel like they are intellegently adding to the conversation when they bring up names like Setoguchi or Vlasic in trade talks.
Plank has already delved into the topic of Marc-Edouard Vlasic, but Setoguchi proposals are the newest form of idiocy. So even though I feel like I'm pandering to the mentally insane, I'll humor the crazies for a second. So cross your legs Indian-style, and I'll walk through this picture book for you. Don't worry; I left out all the big words.
Let's start with the fact that Devin Setoguchi is 23 years old. Last year, at 22, he scored 31 goals and assisted on 34 more. In the NHL. Whad you do when you were 22? Take third in the (insert your shool's worst frat here) pizza eating contest? Get the high score on DDR in the student union? Organize a dorm wide Halo tournament? Yeah, that's what I thought.
Most people are down on Setoguchi because of his production this year. He can't score without Joe Thornton, he's slumping, and he's a one year wonder. Blah blah blah. Why don't we go ahead and factor in a 10 game injury layoff at the beginning of the season. Oh, and also the fact that when he came back, he was relegated to garbage minutes and checking line duty for about two weeks.
In these circumstances, you'd think the fans would be forgiving... but no. Well, if numbers are indeed the argument, then let's look at them more closely. In 48 games this year, he has 14 goals. Stretch that production over an 82 game season and that's 24 goals. Not too shabby. When you look at how he was performing before his injury on October 24th against Atlanta (7 G in 10 games), he was on pace for 54 goals. I'm not saying that was sustainable, but still, pretty damn impressive.
Yeah, he's been less productive since he was moved off Joe Thornton's wing. Who wouldn't be? That's like giving someone a computer, letting them use it for a year, and then suddenly replacing it with a calculator and asking them to do word processing. For Setoguchi, the change was especially hampering when coming off an injury that not only kept him out of the game but messed with one of his biggest assets... speed.
Now, with consistent linemates, Setoguchi is starting to look like the 2008-2009/early season version of himself again. His speed is back, and he's taking shots. Where you can see the biggest confidence boost, though, is in the physical game. Whoever looks at Setoguchi's game and calls him soft is not only blind, but stupid. He may not be the soundest defensive player, but he finishes checks like a motherfucker, and is one of the most determined forecheckers on the team. That aspect of his game is starting to return. The points will follow.
Maybe you're just thinking that we can parlay Setoguchi for something better? Yeah, because it's easy to trade a 23 year old RFA who scores 25-30 goals and makes $850,000. There is almost no player that gives you more bang for your buck than Setoguchi does, and those players are usually untouchable. Even if you don't think Setoguchi will be signed in the off-season, you don't trade him at the deadline. You let him walk as an RFA and reap the benefits, which would be at least one 1st rounder. It usually doesn't even come to that. I'm 90% sure that both Setoguchi and Joe Pavelski will sign, and even if they don't, the comps are favorable for a solid return. The last significant RFA's who moved in the off-season were Phil Kessel and Dustin Penner. I'd put Setoguchi's potential somewhere in between the two. Kessel netted a top three pick in 2010, a likely top 10 pick in 2011, and an early second round pick in 2010. When Penner signed with Edmonton, the Ducks received 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. And here, people are thinking about trading Setoguchi for a depth defenseman? Please.
Even if you believe that Setoguchi will get only marginally better over the next five years, he will likely approach (and exceed) 30 goals at some point in the future. No, he's not Patrick Marleau or Dany Heatley. Few players are. But he's an asset to the team now and in the future, and he's a player simply brimming with potential.
It's expected that Setoguchi will be resigned in the off-season, and this "down" year will help the Sharks get a great deal on his services long term. Even though he's practically the same player as he was in his career year last year, his down year will help contract negotiations on the Sharks end. A five year deal worth anywhere from $15-17.5 MM? Sign me up.
I don't know why I've spent so much time on this subject, especially when Khaaz explained it so well just days ago. Why don't you trade Seto?
Cuz Seto has fuck tons of potential and he has a low salary cap hit.
Consice, insightful, vulgar. If only all Sharks fans could be so eloquent.
Go Sharks.
0 recs |
70 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Good article
Man, those harsh words you said scare the dickens out of me Cheech. You can call me dumb or whatever, I don’t care. But you seem firm on extending Seto’s contract and keeping him here in San Jose for the long run. I’m just confused over the fact how we can afford it. Don’t get me wrong, I love Seto to death being a fellow asian, heh. But we’ve got Marleau, Nabby, Setoguchi, Pavelski, and Blake. Granted, Blake will probably leave but the rest are keepers for sure. Even though DW brought all these great superstars such as Thornton, Boyle, and Heatley, we gotta face facts and admit we’re in salary cap hell. You mention Setoguchi’s having a down year and we could use it as a contract advantage. But what about Marleau and possibly Nabby having a career year? Do we let one of them go?
I would trust my child to anyone on the team --- except ---- well ---- yea, probably everyone. Including Douglas Murray (laughs). - Jody Shelley
You know, it’s tough. I know we’re in dire straits when it come to the salary cap, but all I’m saying is that you can’t move Setoguchi now and expect equal value. If we can’t afford him in the offseason, that’s fine, but it’s more likely that we’ll see a greater return then.
Even Boston, slammed against the cap, managed to get a king’s ransom for Phil Kessel. I’m not saying they’re the same players, but it would be better in my opinion to use him this year and trade him in the offseason, if you are so inclined.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Also, partially the reason why I think you have to move Clowe. Blake is going to make less if he comes back, Marleau will hopefully take a lower cap hit on a long term deal, but eventually you’re getting close to the edge. If Clowe is traded, it at least gives DW room to work.
Don’t forget, Malhotra and Ortmeyer will also expect raises next year, especially if they continue their solid play.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
I think you can afford to let Malhotra and Ortmeyer go. We have enough within the system to fill their roles IMO.
We just traded who for who?!
I think Malhotra and Nichol were two of the best moves the Sharks have made. I guy like Heatley is stealthy, cruisin and then BAM ! Huge shot on goal. Manny, Jed and Nichol are like bulls in a china shop on every shift. I guess McGinn brings that kind of energy but I would hate to see the guys who provide a spark every shift get the boot.
When I think about posting, I ban myself.
I can see letting Jed go, but Manny needs to be resigned. This team looks completely different without him. Of all the injuries we’ve sustained this year I think the team is most notably changed without him… look at the last few games.
Boyle was huge, but somehow we overcame most of that… We lose Malhotra and get shut out by Columbus… it’s weird.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I can't disagree more on Malhotra and Ortmeyer
Malhotra is our top faceoff guy. In the two stretches he’s been injured this season, the team has struggled to find scoring consistency, and has been forced to grind out wins. He provides so much versatility to the team. I don’t see who in our system fits his bill of size, faceoff prowess, penalty killing capabilities, and scoring pop.
Ortmeyer is a perfect compliment to Scott Nichol. The two are a great penalty killing tandem. Jed gets beat on occasion by a speedy winger, but he does more good than bad. I don’t see why you gamble when you’ve got sure (reasonably cheap) money in the bag. The team could use a consistent identity. Keep Jed.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think all three players (Nichol, Malhotra, and Ortmeyer) are key to the Sharks success both this year and next.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Agreed. And with how cheap we could probably resign Orts and Nichol, it’d be stupid to let them walk.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 10:37 AM PST up reply actions
Yes, I think you have to let one go
If I had to choose between letting Marleau or Nabby go the answer is simple. Thanks for everything Nabby but we can no longer afford your services.
Nabby has been phenomenal this year. But retaining him for the next 3 years or so would be costly. If you look at our development system, which has historically been one of the better goaltending development systems (RIP Warren Strelow), we have guys like Stalock and Sexsmith duking it out in the AHL. Oh yeah, and our current backup goaltender happens to be the starting goalie for team Germany. Sure Griess hasn’t had to carry the bulk of the load, but everything I’ve seen suggests he is ready for us to find out. The point is, replacing Nabokov seems doable in our current state.
On the other hand replacing Marleau could be a bit more tricky. Lets see…any 50/40 guys in the system?…gamebreaking speed….incredible hands…? It would be asking a lot of Logan Couture to fill in half of Marleau’s production let alone all of it. Anyone on the current roster that can step up to that production? In short, no. Hopefully Marleau will be a Shark for life.
I don’t know exactly how much money we have to work with in the offseason, but it seems pretty logical that we cannot keep Marleau, Nabby, Pavelski and Seto. I do think that we could find a way to keep Marleau, Pavelski and Seto. I would love for us to find a way to keep Nichol beyond those three and I think guys like McGinn, McLaren, Couture and company could fill out the 3rd and 4th lines nicely.
We just traded who for who?!
I respectfully disagree
Nabokov is vastly more important to the team as a whole than Marleau is. A forward of Marleau’s capabilities is indeed rare, but rarer still is a goaltender of Nabokov’s caliber. With all due respect to Greiss, I don’t see him ready to fill Nabby’s skates – maybe one more year before he starts playing Howard to Nabby’s Osgood. Marleau’s production on the scoreboard would of course be missed – but since we’re arguing over which player is more important to keep, I vote with my whole heart for Nabokov.
Fear the Fin: "C'mon Drew, we're going streaking!" - Randy Hahn, 12/31/09
"Say whatever the fuck you want!" - Danny Miller, 1/9/10
"SJ is hella far away from Carolina." - ZeroIndulgence, 2/2/10
"Have fun tonight, guys." - Dany Heatley, 2/6/10
"That goal made my balls wet." - Ninjames, 2/11/10
by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Feb 12, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
I'd maintain
The money to keep Patty, Nabby, Pavs, Seto, Manny and the rest of the supporting cast comes from Rob Blake’s $4M salary. It’s very cold to just let him walk, but Doug Wilson has to make some very hard choices. If you want to keep Pavs and Seto while upping Patty and Nabby’s contracts, Blake becomes expendable. However, I believe letting Seto go in the off-season still becomes the way we afford an upgrade for Blake.
Also, in choosing between Nabby and Patty, I have no good answer. Is Greiss the answer? Do we take a gamble on picking up a guy like Turco? Will the Predators let go of one of their goalies?
As hard as it is to replace a Patrick Marleau, it’s even harder to replace an Evgeni Nabokov. We’ve probably wasted some of his best seasons, but he’s still a stud. See last night.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The thing I would point out in this discussion is that high priced, even elite, goalies don’t have a great track record in the playoffs. You need a reliable guy, for sure, but playoff series aren’t being stolen by goalies like they used to be. Since the lockout the goalie battles in the SCF have been Ward/Roloson, Giguere/Emery, Osgood/MAF, MAF, Osgood. Only Giggy had elite status and a huge paycheck when he got to the Cup. I think Ken Holland is on the right path when he tries to commit as much money as he can to his skaters and save on the goalies. That strategy can go horribly wrong, but as has been noted, SJS has a good track record with goalies. There would probably be a short term problem if Nabby left because I’m not sure the other guys are ready to take over (and with a team that’s ready to win right now that is surely a concern) but I also think you can find an adequate stop-gap goalie for this team. Do these Sharks really need a goalie to steal games for them? I suspect they’d win the division if they just got average goaltending.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:13 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Osgood is the poster child for non-elite netminders taking a team far. Heck, look at the Blackhawks. They hardly have an elite netminder, but they are still dangerous, and I don’t buy the argument that Huet or Niemi will lose them 4 games before the rest of the team can win 4.
However, even with plenty of elite skaters in front of him, Nabokov has had to carry this team on occasion. If he walks and we don’t pick up another elite shutdown D-man, I don’t see this team as being radically different, in which case, I don’t think we’re ready to have an “average” goaltender between the pipes for us.
This team is a league leader with Nabokov in net. With someone like Thomas Greiss, a young guy still learning the NHL game, it could get ugly. Especially considering the turnovers this team is guilty of.
Unless this team becomes a better puck possession team like I think they should be, I still need confidence in a big time goaltender like Nabokov.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The Caps saw their veteran goalie give them average play all year, which was good enough to win the division, but then crap himself in the playoffs and forced us to rely on an unproven rookie. The rookie mostly worked out for us, but that’s hardly something you can rely on. I definitely appreciate your desire for a big time goalie.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know what you’re basing your thoughts of it getting ugly with Greiss in there, but I have to disagree. Greiss has been extremely solid in net ever since that drubbing against Chicago (Nabby got pulled after 4 goals). Since then he hasn’t allowed more than 2 goals in a game. But that’s the box score. When you watch him play he makes almost as many athletic outstanding saves as Nabby. He has a few things to learn, and that will come with confidence over time. Greiss is ready to take on the bulk of the load IMO.
The dropoff between Nabby and Greiss is much much smaller than the dropoff between a 50/40 Marleau and the next guy. Tying up at least $6M/year for at least 3 years in a 35 year old goaltender doesn’t seem like the best use of funds when you can reach into the Goaltending cabinet and grab a guy like Greiss. I’d rather take the money and throw it at a FA defenseman (Kubina to replace Blake and use the extra $ to keep Nichol or Malhotra around). Spending the money that would be used to keep Nabby on improving the team overall cough defense cough is probably a better use of funds in our case.
We just traded who for who?!
Griess has done well this season
But only in spot duty. He has yet to see any significant action in the NHL, and he really hasn’t faced quality competition on a regular basis. Nabby is still a workhorse for this team. Griess will be a quality netminder in this league someday, but he still has a tendency to come too far out to challenge shooters and is thus caught out sometimes for a bad goal or two. It’s unclear whether that would be a more magnified problem at the NHL level just yet. For better or worse, the team is a bit married to Nabby because of the number of starts he puts in. It’s getting to the point where you’d have to bring in someone to actually mentor Griess in addition to giving him some starts (including back to back starts, has he played more than 2 games in a row at all this season?).
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Honestly, I think it will be a lot easier to part with Nabby after this season if we win the Cup. Or even if we at least do very well (Conference Finals, Cup Finals). This team is in a win now mode. If they win now, then they can move on, maybe have both Greiss and Stalock up next season and see who takes over.
If we lose early, and Nabby is bad again (he was pretty bad in the Anaheim series), we could possibly see Greiss in a backup role to a different veteran netminder.
If we lose early despite a badass Nabby, I definately see him coming back to help us try to finish what he’s helped us start.
That’s how I see it going down anyways. Wouldn’t a learning season for our young goaltenders be much easier to stomach if we’ve finally broken through?
Of course, if we shore up the defense, and hang onto our scoring next offseason, we might be able to afford to give Greiss his shot.
I guess the overall point I’m geting at is that its way too soon to tell what’s going to happen. I’m pretty sure Greiss could be at least a league average netminder in this league right now…and as he gets some more play, could be even better than that. He’s going to need to get that shot at some point, though.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 13, 2010 1:37 AM PST up reply actions
I actually am looking forward to a time when HTML are all gone…Hopefully guys like Pavelski and Devin are still around because they bring a different kind of skill then the big line does now.
I was in Vancouver for a few years when the Sedins came in and they were these quiet, hard working, talented guys just bursting with potential…and look at them now! Kind of how I see the Seto/Pavs working out…if only they stay here to make that happen. It took the Sedins years to get to this point, with Canucks fans screaming that they were busts the whole time….
When I think about posting, I ban myself.
Don't. Fuck. With. Seto.
Fear the Fin: "C'mon Drew, we're going streaking!" - Randy Hahn, 12/31/09
"Say whatever the fuck you want!" - Danny Miller, 1/9/10
"SJ is hella far away from Carolina." - ZeroIndulgence, 2/2/10
"Have fun tonight, guys." - Dany Heatley, 2/6/10
"That goal made my balls wet." - Ninjames, 2/11/10
by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Feb 12, 2010 7:14 AM PST reply actions
Are you letting the dogs out there K?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Awwwwwww, look at the little puppy! What a nice little puppy!
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Long, but not exactly full of revelations.
Fear the Fin: "C'mon Drew, we're going streaking!" - Randy Hahn, 12/31/09
"Say whatever the fuck you want!" - Danny Miller, 1/9/10
"SJ is hella far away from Carolina." - ZeroIndulgence, 2/2/10
"Have fun tonight, guys." - Dany Heatley, 2/6/10
"That goal made my balls wet." - Ninjames, 2/11/10
by Conico do Mayo Miracle on Feb 12, 2010 8:15 AM PST reply actions
NHL Numbers
According to NHL Numbers.com the Sharks will have approx. $20 million to work with next year. With that money, we will have to sign Marleau, Nabby, Pav’s and Seto.
It does appear that Clowe (as valuable as he is) might be the odd man out because of Cap concerns and our need to improve the defense this year.
Perhaps Nabby will sign a 1 year deal? Perhaps Marleau will give us a home-town discount because he likes it here? I don’t think we need Blake next year at 41, as great a career as he has had.
I’d like to see guys from Worcester get a chance next year, and because of cap concerns, I’ll probably get my wish.
Looking ahead, it’s conceivable that we move some of our big contracts after next year, especially if we don’t achieve our ultimate goal of winning Lord Stanley’s Cup. DW has built an awesome team that is ready to win it all right now, so let’s hope it happens this year.
Blake
Rob Blake may only be playing right now because of his legacy and his $s. He has to be the odd man out. His mistakes are no more glaring than some of the youngsters whose legs are much much better.
When I think about posting, I ban myself.
And his leadership
I think he brings a level of accountability and veteran leadership that was missing last year.. He can play tough and he is honest about how he and the team is performing. I think that overshadows some of his glaring mistakes. I think next year Boyle can become Captain and Blake can retire and go into the Hall of Fame.
I agree. The leadership is important. I am part of the secret Pavelski for eventual captain club.
When I think about posting, I ban myself.
Or at least an Alternate
I think he s/b an alternate now. He’s a leader and a real stand up guy. Smart player as well. Hope he does well in the Olympics, USA!!!
The Sharks can sign him to
2.0 mil deal to play bottom pair minutes. That frees up some cap room allows us to get real top-4 D-man
Besides Demers
what does the D situation look like in the minors? Are we not expecting any effective call-ups in the off-season/training camp, or do we have some more solid D-man prospects? Forgive my ignorance, I just don’t follow our affiliates as closely as some others.
Joslin & Moore
I think Joslin has a chance to stay with the team next year. Demers looks like a real prospect also. Other than that, not sure if anyone else will stand out. So that leaves us Boyle, Murray, Pickles, and dare I say Huskins, and everyone else, whomever that may be?
Seems like good D-men are out there like Leach and Wallin for a good price. We’ll need someone else to play the point on the PP after Blake retires (if he does?).
Totally agree TCY
Devin will come good in the future and I want that to happen in Teal.
What I’m about to say is going to go down like a lead balloon here, and I by no means wish to tar all American sports fans with the same brush, because I have a lot of respect for the people I have come across here at FTF, but………
It seems to me a lot of people have incredibly short memories, and as a foreigner viewing this all from the perspective of a British sports fan, I must say this is something I have seen a lot more of in US sports. There, I said it.
What I’m trying to say to all those who are even thinking of dealing Seto is: 22 years, 31 goals, 34 assists. Can we just have a bit of perspective here?
Rant over, and apologies for the sweeping generalisations. Let the bile pour forth!
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
This rant reminds me of Eddie Izzard talking about European history vs. American history. I don’t know if there really is any cultural truth to it but it’s interesting.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Not solely an American trait
As an American viewing occasional coverage of the EPL, the CL, 6 Nations, International Cricket, etc, I prefer the American perspective to a certain degree. There is a certain lack of parity in international sport due to the lack of a salary cap, so it’s pretty much a forgone conclusion that one of a very small number of teams are genuinely in the hunt.
With all due respect, a poor tour by England or the Lions to the Southern Hemisphere leads to the same sort of knife drawing criticism we’re showing here. Captaincies are called into question, the coaching is criticized, everyone has an opinion it seems. And the smallest snippets of a post game interview are printed and assumed to be gospel truth without saying anything of real value.
Reading what you’ve posted before on this site, I’d hardly accuse you of any sweeping generalizations. Your opinions are always well formed. But I suppose the “outsider” always has a different perspective.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I think it really does come down to being an outsider. To be honest that’s been one of the most exciting things about immersing myself in hockey, getting to know a new sport and sporting culture which is not widely known about here in the UK.
The other thing that’s really impressed me is this type of website, which allows really decent discussion of the sport and team. Most fan forums over here, and I speak mainly of soccer sites, seem to be based solely on mindless ranting and bad-mouthing your rivals. A much better class of discourse here, and something US sports fans should be proud of.
And you think you live in a non-traditional hockey market...
That is terrible news. Hate to see him struggling.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Agreed. But he has stunk. I’ve always liked him for his attitude but when you can’t skate you can’t play.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
Sad times. Cheechoo is a class act.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
no….sniffles…well bring him back here!!! We want Cheech back!
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 12, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
If he's put on waivers
I hope someone picks him up. There are teams in the hunt that have cap space. If he goes somwhere where he can play more than 10 minutes a night, he’s got to have something for someone. This is just really really sad. I freaking hate sports sometimes.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
True dat
Mayber someone like the Islanders or Thrashers put in a claim, and stick him on their top line for a month to see if he has anything left. Maybe he could be a sniper for Tavares.
What if he goes to play for the Ducks?!?!?! Would my world collapse?!?!??! First Jeff Friesen and now Cheechoo?!?!?!??
My love for Jonathan Cheechoo is greater than my hatred for the Ducks
If he played for the Ducks, I would consider not cringing when they won if Cheech was a part of it.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I’ve never been for trading Seto during this season. He’s cheap and good and we would never, ever get enough in return to make it worth while right now (and be able to fit those worthwhile pieces under the cap even if we could get them). However, if a team were to try and sign Seto to a huge offer sheet in the offseason, I could see the Sharks letting him go for the boatload of draft picks they would get in return.
Honestly, I don’t see Marleau or Nabby going anywhere, nor do I see Pavs going anywhere, and they will probably all get raises (if anything, Marleau takes a hometown discount, and Patty and Nabby essentially end up trading cap hits with one another). Obviously not resigning Blake will give us some room to work with, but we’d also have to add a top-4 guy to our blueline. That’s not cheap. And we’ll want to retain Malhotra (not cheap), Nichol…I thinK Orts will be gone. But there’s only so much money to go around…and we have some forwards in the AHL who can come up and contribute right now.
I guess what I’m saying is that letting Seto go on a big offer sheet in the offseason wouldn’t be an abysmally bad move. Of course, if we can keep him and everyone else we want to resign and keep a good team together…then I’m all for it. It all depends on what the cap hits of our RFAs and UFAs ends up being…and as best we can try to predict that, we can’t. Overall, in terms of importance of resigning among our big 4, I just have Seto at the bottom of the list (behind Nabby, Marleau, and Pavs). Doesn’t mean we need to get rid of him now, though.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 10:35 AM PST reply actions
Seto is a stud, BUT
I’m one of those people who has been unopposed to dealing Seto.
I was probably biggest on this during his return from injury because, while he was playing with significantly worse linemates, he was also basically invisible. He had the same issues Ryane Clowe had during his dry spell this year; the game was moving too fast for him and he had no idea what to do.
You always have to be concerned about whether or not a guy was made by Joe Thornton.
I love Jonathan Cheechoo to death, but his situation is eerily similar to Seto’s. I always maintain it’s injuries that did Cheech in, but the fact remains that he had a breakout year, signed a $3M/year deal, and became Salary Cap dead weight. If you can’t keep Seto on Joe’s wing, does he become the same kind of guy, minus the injuries? We all want a 30/30 guy on Joe’s wing that we pay $3M for. That’d be awesome. Can Seto consistently be that guy? I think that’s a fair question. And honestly, if he shows up in the post-season, then he earns the right to be that guy.
But we’re all talking about Ryane Clowe being the odd man out here. He’s pretty much what Seto was last season, a pending RFA who had a breakout year. No one wanted to trade him at that point. And now, every Sharks trade starts and ends with him. I know that they are entirely different players, sniper vs. power forward, but at a $3M cap hit on a team that has Thornton, Heatley, Marleau, Boyle and Nabokov, $3M is steep for something that’s not a sure bet. Seto’s inconsistency is most certainly cause for concern. Yes, he’s been injured, but so was Joe Pavelski. So was Manny Malhotra. They came back and pretty much kept up a solid level of play.
There is every reason to at least CONSIDER trading Devin Setoguchi. You have to be judicious with when you do it and how you get the best return for him. If we’re going to get another D-man in the offseason, it’s pretty much going to be at the expense of either him or Ryane Clowe. It’s a tossup in my eyes as to which is more valuable, especially if the team keeps Patty.
I think you’d be correct from a cap perspective that we can’t trade him during the season because, ideally, a team shipping out a pending RFA can afford to take on salary and thus gets a proven vet in return. Maybe if we got a big young d-man in return for Seto who was also a pending RFA, that’d be a situation I’d favor. It’d have to be a Victor Hedman type guy though. I don’t see anyone making that trade though.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Agreed.
Nice analysis. The only scenario I see in trading Seto this year (like right now), is if you find a team that has a similar type value from a defenceman, but wants offence instead (and you’ve decided that you really want to upgrade your defence). For example, the Rangers have a lot of young defencemen and are hurting offensively. Wouldn’t the principles of a deal be Seto for Staal?
Seto — as a guy that produces more than his salary (still), and is an impending RFA — is the main piece to a deal in acquiring a young, legit, top-pair d-man. If the guy already is on his 2nd contract, he’s out of the price range because of salary cap considerations and the players it would take to make the deal, essentially.
One thing about Seto that might have been mentioned… but lets face reality here, im not fuckin reading all those posts… is that even though he is struggling right now, we all know he is much better and will be come playoff time.
His struggles though mean that he will garner less money come paycheck time… that’s good news for the sharks… not so good for Seto-goooch…
Hahahaha
lol, awesome article. Earlier this season before he got injured Seto was the man; he and Marleau seemed like the only guys hustling back then. After his injury he slowed down a bit but he’ll get it back, and we’ve already seen the fast, gritty, hard working, goal scorer he’s capable of being.
The Sharks definitely need to hang on to Seto. Even if he only scores like 25 goals this season, he brings so much more to the table (“the intagibles”) that it’d be just dumb to let him go. He’s only going to get better, and he’s already great.
As TCY pointed out, there is no positive to trading Seto this season. He is a top 6 forward making bottom six money, and is pretty much even with Pavs as far as GPG. He scores more goals than Patrick Sharp for the ’Hawks, even though he has played with worse linemates. He gets beat in battles along the boards pretty often, but his offensive instincts help mask that. As long as he is battling, I can deal with it.
Over the summer, well, someone is gonna have to go, whether Nabby, Marleau, Pavs, Clowe, or Seto. Maybe even one or two of Manny, Jed, Staubitz, or Nichol. Blake and Shelly are almost surely gone. It’s not so much cap issues as it is talent issues (unlike the ’Hawks, whom are literally forcing themselves to make a trade over the summer, and we know how those usually go for the trading team). The Sharks will be in the drivers seat as far as who they want to keep, and except for the occasional slip up, DW has made the right call.
Well crap
Minnesota sends D Kim Johnsson and first rounder Nick Leddy to Chicago for D Cam Barker.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=309956
Johnsson is a pretty hefty cap hit if memory serves, but I guess his contract must be expiring. Seems like a decent move. Johnsson is an offensive defenseman if memory serves.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
This seems more like a shifting of assets than an improvement for the Hawks. Not sure this affects their Cup chances one way or the other this season.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I checked up on a few things
Johnsson is a monster cap hit, but his contract does expire at the end of the season.
Asset wise, it seems very much like for like. Barker is an offensive minded D-man with a big shot. Johnsson is a puck mover. It’s not a straight upgrade of any kind I don’t think. But it does essentially fix some of their cap issues next season.
I think they still might need to make one move to clear up some space this season. I haven’t checked the numbers on that.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
While I agree with your defense of Seto...
I don’t think it’s a good idea to start it off with comparing the accomplishments of a professional athlete to those of your readers. I think you have a point in saying that he’s done a tremendous deal in the NHL at his age, but it’s tough to get readers to agree with you if your first deal is vilifying them with arbitrary comparisons. Again, I agree with your defense otherwise. Thanks.
by dheatleyanallstar on Feb 12, 2010 12:33 PM PST reply actions
Guess I can’t just imply sarcasm anymore
It’s a freaking joke!!!
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Feb 12, 2010 1:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
At the age of 22 I was raiding Molten Core and handing Ragnaros his own ass. Psh, Seto hasn’t done shit!
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 12, 2010 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
But what’s he going to be doing at 45! I’m going to be at the height of my earning potential working in an office! He’ll be unemployed. Sucker.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
Hey, you never know, Setoguchi might just pull a Chelios and still be playing.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Ha. Hopefully for you guys he cuts out the whole “playing for your bitter rivals” part of it.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 12, 2010 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
Better not trade Gooch
He’s hot. Always showing off that bod during post-game interviews, lol.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Fear The Fin
Related FanShots on Fear The Fin
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Trending Topics: Odd arbitration decisions; more NHLers Tweeting
- Ovechkin wins fifth Kharlamov Trophy, talks Talbot
- Puck Headlines: Witt hits waivers; Kovalchuk grievance details set
- Jersey Fouls: Sharks get creatively awful; hockey movie pass/fail
- White, Flames agree to one-year deal; Bruins sign Wheeler
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
