The Aftermath - 5 Reasons for the Collapse of Team Russia
by Ivano M on Feb 25, 2010 12:27 AM PST
177 comments
An Olympic team that was described by most hockey experts as the most skilled at the tournament is not even going to play in the medal games. For Team Russia, the Olympic journey ended much earlier than anticipated and in a way that no one predicted.
The final score of last night's epic game between Russia and Canada - Russia game is now known throughout the hockey world, as Canada defeated Russia 7:3. An hour or so after the game one of the Russian players came out from the locker room and looked at the empty arena with dispair on his face, as if wanting to wake up from what he was hoping was a bad dream, a feeling that was shared by millions of Russians back home. So what did go wrong in this tournament for the team that had such potential? And who should be blamed for a failure of such proportions?
1. Coach Slava Bykov and His Staff. The Olympic Games in Vancouver were the first for Bykov as a head coach for Team Russia, as he took over for Vladimir Krikunov that was fired after failing to win a medal in Torino in 2006. Was he experienced enough for such a role? Not only that, but Bykov is a head coach for KHL club Salavat Yulaev, who dedicated most of his time coaching that club, and not making regular trips to the NHL, as he should have. Russia's GM Tretiak stated that it was Bykov who picked the team. If that was the case, how could he do that without regularly watching his top stars in action? Ron Wilson and Mike Babcock are also busy with their clubs, but first, they did not pick the rosters for their team - Brian Burke and Steve Yzerman did. But even if they had a say on who to take and who to omit - they saw these players compete against the Leafs and the Red Wings on a regular basis. Bykov did not. To give one example - could it be that Volchenkov was not used in the role he was supposed to be used because Bykov simply did not know him enough? Is that acceptable that the most physical defenseman on the roster only spent 15 minutes on the ice against Canada?
2. Coaching Choices Made During the Games. While much has been written about how Bykov represents a new style of Russian coaching, and how he understands Russian NHL players having played abroad himself, it was obvious as early as in the game against Slovakia that he was still using the old Soviet tactics, such as rolling all four lines equally, or using four pairs of defensemen, or long shifts for his lines, or not having special teams for power play and penalty kill opportunities. While these strategies may worked against inferior opponents, such as Latvia or Czech Republic, they fell apart against 100% NHL squad of Canada.
3. Performance of Russia's Top Players. Just about all the writers today will write about how Nabokov and Ovechkin, arguably two most important players on the Russian roster, were ineffective (or even pathetic) against Canada. Yet these two were not the only ones missing in action in this game. Let's see.. Where was Ilya Kovalchuk during this whole tournament? Was he even on the squad or was he still back in New Jersey negotiating his contract extension? How about Pavel Datsyuk? What has he done besides winning a face off here and there or occasiionally throwing his body around? It's nice for Sergei Gonchar to score a power play goal against Canada, but what was he doing in the three previous games? Where was Captain Alexei Morozov? Besides Radulov, I can't name a single KHL player that stood out.
4. Defensive Breakdown against Canada. While Russia's defense did not look terrible in the group stage games, Mike Babcock found a way to expose all the Russian defensive weaknesses that so much has been written about going into the tournament. All Canadians had to do was pressure the puck, and play ultra physical game to start the game, and as three of us expected, first goal made the biggest difference. Russia had no answer for this kind of hockey, and before they realized that the game started, Canada was leading by five goals (the score was 6:1 just 24 minutes into the game!). As Nabokov said in a post game interview, "we were shocked by the wave of their attacks".
5. Lack of Spectacular Goaltending. When it mattered most, Russian goaltenders did not deliver the kind of games that we have seen them deliever for the Coyotes and the Sharks this season. First, Bryzgalov. When Russia couldn't score more than one goal against Slovakia, he allowed his opponent to tie the game and beat him in shoot out competition. Second, Nabokov. Not that he should be blamed for all goals, but he allowed too many too fast against Canada, and a few of those a goaltender of his caliber should not have allowed to go past him. In his post game interview following the loss to Canada, Nabby was asked if this was the worst career game of his life. He thought about it for a moment, and said that yes, most likely it was. He could not even remember a single instance when he allowed six goals in one game.
This is how the journey ended for Team Russia. The Russian Hockey Federation has some tough choices to make in the next few months, as they evaluate the past and plan ahead for the Olympic games in Sochi, Russia in 2014, where the pressure on Team Russia will be enourmous. The Olympic rivalry between Canada and Russia will resume in four years on Russian soil, but until then, the pain and the memory of this collapse will linger on the minds and in the hearts of Russian people. As Canadians already know, four years is a long time to think about one loss.
0 recs |
177 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Forget about it Nabby
Just play your whole heart for San Jose now. Im sure winning the Cup will make you forget about the olympics.
It was going to happen
Everyone knows it, but Canada simply has the best roster in the Olympics. Their team is absolutely stacked. Combine that with the coaching of Babcock and it was only a matter of time before Canada started rolling over teams 8-3 and 7-3. Should they have rolled over Russia this easily? No. Russia had a much better team than showed (and I personally was rooting for them to knock Canada out). Bottom line, when you combine that much unbelievable hockey talent with great coaching, domination style hockey is going to be the outcome. Now all we can do is hope that USA keeps it together till the Gold medal round and rekindles that magic they found in the first USA-Canada match up. Go USA.
If Luongo’s sharpness only escalates, if the USA match up against Canada for a medal game, some things are gonna change.
I definitely did not expect Switzerland to be such a thorn in their side yesterday. I have a newfound respect for Hiller.
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
“I definitely did not expect Switzerland to be such a thorn in their side yesterday. I have a newfound respect for Hiller”
Dont you remember last year int he playoffs? Hiller was a god, not saying i respect him for shutting us down, but thats just hiller for you.
Haha, he didn’t have the Ducks supporting him up front, ’twas Team Switzerland. Vs. Team USA.
To render them scoreless until the 3rd? Did not see that coming. I knew he was a wall, but man. He carried.
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
I have no idea how anybody is going to beat Canada after today’s performance. That crowd is going to be off the chain.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I think the US showed the blueprint for it. Spectacular goaltending (Miller being Miller), lots of blocked shots coming from everywhere, forwards who backcheck relentlessly, and capitalizing on your offensive opportunities.
Canada doesn’t really look any better than they did against the US. The US was just better prepared for it. No one on the US stands around and watches Canada work, they go pressure the puck. They don’t just watch Canada pepper their goalie with shots, they go down and try to block them. Russia did neither of these things today, and neither did Germany. When Canada is given room to operate, they will rip teams apart. The US won’t give them the time and space as often to be able to set up like that. And will limit second and third chances, where Canada is really dangerous.
It’ll be a monumental task, should the US and Canada match up again (either in the Gold Medal game, or the Bronze Medal game), but of the 3 other teams remaining, I think the US is the only team that is built correctly and has the correct mindset to beat them.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 2:52 AM PST up reply actions
Definitely agree that Team USA is definitely the best fit to beat Canada, for all the reasons you mentioned. Hell, that’s probably why they call that style a “North American game” (blocking shots, laying on the body etc.)
I think the US showed the blueprint for it. Spectacular goaltending (Miller being Miller), lots of blocked shots coming from everywhere, forwards who backcheck relentlessly, and capitalizing on your offensive opportunities.
I think that’s probably as far as we need to go when it comes to talking about any potential rematch. As I’ve mentioned before, I don’t think the United States played excellent against Canada by any stretch of the imagination. It strictly came down to goaltending, and Miller was out of this world. Brodeur was horrendous. The momentum lost after Canada tied it up, when he gave up one whale of a softie to Rafalski, changed the game and got the kids to believe.
Canada came in waves last Sunday, they are going to come in waves again. With Luongo in net and the entire country behind them, any team that is going to think about staying with them is going to need excellent goaltending and a whole lotta luck. Hopefully lightning can strike twice.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Yes, Canada got 45 shots on net, and Miller was spectacular. But 45, realistically, while high, isn’t obscenely high. We’ve seen the Sharks do that to teams and lose quite a bit. However, if the forwards and defencemen weren’t going down and blocking shots and limiting second and third chances, Miller may have needed to make 60-70 saves for us to win.
Miller being shitty will definately be the end of the US, but Miller being good doesn’t mean anything if his forwards and d-men aren’t also getting involved (see Russia).
Finally, Luongo, while winning both his starts since taking over for Brodeur, has let in some softies. All three goals against Russia were pretty weak…and if Russia could have mounted any sort of sustained attack, they could have come back. The two goals against Germany were pretty weak too. Yes, those games were laughers, but Luongo really didn’t have much to do with it. He has yet to be tested, and I think the US could have the same kind of success against him as they did against Brodeur.
The US has to beat Finland to have a chance at this rematch, though. Let’s hope they take care of business on Friday.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Agree with you on coaching. There is a huge gap between the experience and accomplishments of Babcock and Bykov.
I’d echo this as well. With so few games to mesh as a team, the coaches’ influence is magnified.
Even if some of Bykov’s decisions would have proven to be successful over the course of an 82 game season, they would have taken some time to implement successfully.
Please tell me we have moved past the dark ages of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
by Yeti Monster on Feb 25, 2010 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
A couple things that stood out to me...
1. Bykov had no idea how to use Ovechkin. On the pp, he had OV playing right in front of the goalie. He is one of the best snipers the world has ever seen. He can create shots from anywhere, and with anyone on him. But he has no room to create when he’s crammed up against the goalie. Bykov needed to put him on the point in the pp, just like the Caps use him. Give him space to create.
2. The Russian forwards didn’t seem overly interested in backchecking or blocking shots. Maybe it was because they didn’t have to in their group games, but man, against a team with Canada’s firepower, you cannot stand around and hope the puck comes to you.
3. Russia never gelled as a team, overall. This one falls both on the coaches and the players. But they just never looked in sync. This was a team that was supposed to have just a devastating offense. And even in group play, they looked ordinary. Part of that is Bykov not knowing how to use his players. Part of that is the players not performing.
I dunno. I really thought Russia would end up winning Gold this year, but not in one single game did they impress me. It really did look like half the team was a bunch of superstars who all wanted to play like they were in an all star game, and half the team just did not have the talent to compete at the top level. I’m not sure what Russia can do to change that, but they have 4 years to figure it out…
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
right! ovi’s powerplay position will be bykov’s secret.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
Good point about Ovechkin. While he did play in the crease position on the PP outside of Capitals, if this is a position he’s used to in Washington, why change anything? It’s not like Babcock is trying to force Thornton or Crosby out of their normal positions on the PP…
I don’t know what was wrong with team chemistry. This is a very similar team that won world championship in the last two years – plus Penguins players.
I also think one extra game for Canada really helped them come together because they sure looked lost against the Americans.
you really have to ask how they prepared mentaly for that game. was ist not clear, that the canadians would come out hot and melting the ice, firing every puck, taking every check. russia had to be aware of that, to stand the pressure in the beginng. they played like in the preliminary round, sleeping, woked up by the buzzer. before getting used to the canadian play, they had already lost thair confidance and it was game over after 20 minutes. they should have known that before! no clue why not. but usualy a russian team can generate a dominant play in the opponent zone…
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
It’s the stupid mentality is that “no one can beat us if we play our game.” Canada came with a specific game plan and specific match ups for each Russian line, and they prevailed.
It’s the same stupid mentality that killed the Sharks a year ago. I hope McLellan has learned his lesson and will better prepare for each opponent.
i was rememberd to the 98 final, and also 2002 semifinal where they started with a 0:3 in the third period, they recovered after scoring their first goalat that time but it was too late.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, that game had the exact same start as a game against Canada in Quebec two years ago in the WC final when Russia went down 0-3 very quickly, but then Russia scored a goal and eventually won in the OT.
Why they gave up here, I have no idea.
Perhaps Bykov should have pulled Nabby after the 3rd goal to shake the team up.
i tjink they were down just 1:3, bust doesn’t matter.
of course canada is stronger than in 08.
but i was sitting that night in front of tv and really saw a german team dressed in red. i asked all the time: where is the russian hockey school? are the canadians really so much faster on the skates then the russians? more skillful?
i agree i would have replaced nabi earlier, it could not get worse.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
great write up Ivano
and sorry about the russians being out.
"Devin Setoguchi’s haircut has released the dragon" ~Drew Remenda
by Jay Fin Anderson on Feb 25, 2010 7:50 AM PST reply actions
I can't blame Nabby for it all.
He got little help from his D. The NBC crew seemed especially harsh on him alone, but what else to expect from that douch bag, Blackhawk-loving, Eddie O! Pretty classy that Nabby took the heat and didn’t blame his D.
Did you hear that Vlasic??
Canada gets a little lucky though. A pants crapping performance by Russia and no Sweden. Wow.
by skilletboy on Feb 25, 2010 8:27 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Those three quick goals killed all the momentum. Russia seemed to regain the composure after they scored a goal, but it was all gone after the next goal.
I’ve never seen Ovechkin have such a bad game. Even when Sharks recently beat the Caps 5-1, he was still dangerous all game and still scored a goal.
Yeah, Nabby has to shoulder some fault
Of the first three goals, I thought all were great plays (though Marleau’s goal he had a chance and didn’t get down fast enough). But the Morrow goal was a backbreaker. I hate to agree with Olcyzk, but that goal simply cannot go in during a game of such importance. I would have pulled nabby there, not for any shakeup effect but because it was clear he was not going to give them the stud performance they needed. After that, he was shaken and was wimply trying to make plays.
That said, Puck Daddy went even further and blamed Nabby for virtually all six goals, even the Nash goal. He said Nabby had the worst goaltending performance in the Oylmpics. Sorry, I thought Brodeur played worse. Considering the skill level and the waves of attacks, its not close.
canada strike
i think the russian team was not good in the whole tournament. they showed no typical russian skills, so they had a lot of technical mistakes, and they skated extremaly slow, what surprised me most,just like the stickhandling problems. allready the chech team could play around in their defensive zone and put pressure on the russians. the playmaking was a desaster, they showed no moves as usually. they skated so slowly along the boards. maybe they were not well prepared.
another point was the powerplay.
that team was just average, in every game. no athletic play. they were so much better in 2006.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 8:34 AM PST reply actions
He could not even remember a single instance when he allowed six goals in one game.
December, 2008. Joe Louis Arena. Red Wings. Also, October 2008 against the Flyers. Sharks won 7-6 in a shootout.
I am quite sad that I know this. But at least one of them was a win!
Great write-up, and I’m sorry that the Russians were out. I may have been rooting for Canada, but it hurt every single time Nabby allowed a goal. What could have been if they played like a team, if they committed themselves defensively, and if Nabokov didn’t have an off night. I think the entire hockey world missed out on something special. Kind of reminds me of Game 7 of the Pens-Caps series. Blow-out when a close, hard-fought game was expected, with Sid and Ovie on each side.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I have to say that it broke my heart seeing Nabby on the bench with anguish in his face and looking all lost.
Couple more reason to respect him – he was one of the few players who came out and spent as much time with the press after the game as was needed, and he was the only player so far that admitted his fault. Kovalchuk blamed the defense (completely ignoring his individual stats – one goal against Latvia), Bykov blamed the goaltending and the lack of passion from the players and so on and so forth. It’s a blame game – just like four years ago. Nabby however one of the few rare players who is not afraid to talk about his own mistakes.
The game last night gave me no confidence for Sharks success in playoffs. But I think it’s a good thing for Thornton to play on a team like Canada and to see what it means to step up the game. I think he’s learning a good lesson in Vancouver. That at least is a positive. If Nabby can’t take us through, everyone else may.
I have to say that it broke my heart seeing Nabby on the bench with anguish in his face and looking all lost.
Oh god me too. I feel so bad for him. I was really hoping Russia would blow the doors off Canada last night….
"What an idiot" - Craig Rivet
"Al Stalock, his reflexes are so good he can smell a fart before someone even lays one"
by sharkiesgirl on Feb 25, 2010 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Nabby’s team won’t leave him out to dry nearly as much as the Russian team did last night. If this shatters his confidence, the Sharks are pretty screwed. But maybe getting back with his teammates on friendly ice (the Sharks have 5 home games right off the break) will get him back on track.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 10:13 AM PST up reply actions
I hope Nabby is not too affected.
Nabby has bounced back great from poor showings this year, so hopefully he will be able to put this behind him. I also hope that this game pisses him off so much he wants to make up for it and drink from the Cup.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 25, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
OMG
Russia washes hot tears now. People is shocked. But we trust in our heroes on following Olympiad. And now I shall hope for that Finland, USA or Slovakia have beaten the Combined team of Canada. Angrily boils))))) Success in a semifinal to the United States America!
Olga. Russia. Moscow.
Nabokov tried. Very much tried. Vladislav Tretjak spoke with him after game. The goalkeeper has told to him the following: " I do not know where to disappear. As I has got under the tank. In one party I am rolled out – they on another give a pass. I cost – they throw. Vladislav Aleksandrovich, here such trouble " … In this time tear on eyes at Nabokov…
I third that. Welcome Tentofolga!
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Welcome!
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
Saw. Rather. After the sixth washer which have appeared in our gate, I have drunk a soothing medicine and have laid down to sleep. We had late night. And here only today has seen all episodes again. Canada has won with shine. And even for three Russian washers I am ready to kiss our hockey players.))
Ivano mentioned this above, but the KHL truly was a non-factor last night. Canada would just dump pucks in and knock bodies around in the corner. I think that was probably the biggest thing for me besides the breakdowns in the defensive zone— Bykov couldn’t get a rhythm going with a lower lines which forced the big guns out there to take longer shifts and try to do it all.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I think another factor working against KHL players were smaller rinks. The play in the KHL is very different. As Heatley indicated in an interview to Rabiner, it simply is not physical.
You’d think with that in mind, Bykov would adjust accordingly and take less KHL players..
Wasn’t there an outcry before the Olympics that there needed to be more KHL players, not fewer?
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
That I think was their biggest mistake. Trying to make everybody happy instead of trying to win the tournament.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Agreed.
I feel some of the Russian NHLers could have been more effective.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 25, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, there was. I hope that stupidity will stop now for good. I’m still pissed they thought Viktor Kozlov is more valuable to this team than Frolov.
The only time Russia did well in the post-Soviet Olympics when it was largely NHL-based back in 1998 – the team of Pavel Bure and Sergei Fedorov in their primes.
The 5-goal performance by Bure in the semi final against Finland is still one of my happiest hockey memories of all times.
The whole country wept when Hasek stopped that Dream Team.
russian team in 98 was so good. bure 5 goals…
i still don’t know how they could loose.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 10:56 AM PST up reply actions
There is no shame in losing to Hasek. Plenty of teams did before, and plenty of teams did after.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
of course no shame. when recapping the names of 98, is it posible that european hockey is on decline compared with canada?
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
I think it’s more that European hockey is being more and more restricted to Europe as opposed to coming over to the NHL, which is giving the NHL players in the Olympics a bit of and advantage with the smaller rinks. I think the Europe leagues are getting stronger, but they’re not used to playing the North American style, and so don’t play as well against the teams that do use that more physical, grinding style. If the size of the rink was standard throughout all leagues and competitions, I’d think that the European players would look a lot better against the North Americans.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Good point
Sochi will be interesting, and I hope the NHL goes. The North American eams will probably be built very differently that is for sure. More focus on speed through the neutral zone and less on having a physical presence. I think the young guys from Team USA should do well as long as they get some help on the backend. Not a whole lot of mobility there.
It’s hard to really judge teams on a short tournament where bounces and goaltending are huge factors, but the final four in Torino compared to the final four in Vancouver could be a good example of how the ice effects what teams flourish.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
but german league is not getting stronger :-)
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Give the Sharks another decade. They’ll draft and develop enough Germans to form a national team, and then they’ll be good.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
the germans are so bad, you have to choose another national team if you want to celebrate a bit during the olympics…
i took the wrong team…
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
but to play on a level with the swiss team is not demanded too much…
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
Russian hockey is in decline for sure. Look no further than the results at junior level. It’s been pre-Ovechkin that we won U-20 tournament.
They’re finally talking about cleaning up youth hockey and putting money into it. Winter Olympics on the horizon will also help, but it can take years to get back to winning these tournaments again.
That is one reason I’m really excited for the future of USA Hockey— while Canada didn’t have all of their kids at the U20 (something they are always quick to point out), the United States has been playing them tight in these tournaments lately, as well as on the big stage. We are definitely on the up and up.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Not trying to twist the dagger Ivano— sorry if it came off that way.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I think US has a great hockey future. Look at the number of Americans that go every year in top 20 of drafts. Compare that to the number of Russians, or Europeans in general (although fear of KHL problem does play its role).
I think US will go into Sochi as one of the favorites.
We have prospects in the future too. Recently have shown, how boys whom approximately for 7 years, train to play hockey. They have shared on two commands – a command ’ Russia ’ and a command ’ Canada ’. They imitated the present hockey players. It is necessary to recognize small Russian ’ Crosby ’ has won ’ Оvechkin ’))))) it was amusing to look at them…
I wish your children of success too.
the juniors are a good indicator, although last year was luck for canada against russia.
chech republick is definetely on decline, the finns still trust in the old stars, sweden is a big question mark in the future.
the number of big european names in nhl is less then in the 90s.
russia is the only team with a potential golden generation.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
The number of Russian hockey players has been declining in the NHL lately, although like Ivano said, the KHL has played a role in that. Radulov for example may have scared a few teams away.
That being said though, the top end talent that Russia has in the league right now is excellent. It is, as you say, a potential golden generation.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
After disorder USSR Russia has lost many sports objects, lines, trainers. Now blanks it is necessary to fill all. We count, that Olympiad in Sochi will give to sports development, we shall undertake all in a new fashion… And that all till now is assured for some reason, that all Russia constantly drinks vodka, and together with sportsmen on platforms bears)) train) Actually, Russia just now could invest in sports… To Me it is not clear, why our combined team on hockey considered as the leader on Olympic Games, in fact Bykov at once has told, that the leader there Canada….
It’s a shame Hasek sometimes falls by the wayside when people are talking about the greatest goaltender of all time. It is always a question of either Roy or Brodeur, and I think it’s a bit unfair. No one was better all throughout the 90’s. He literally gave Buffalo a chance to win every single night, even with some of the mediocre rosters they iced.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Agreed. That and his entertainment factor was so high. Most games he showed such eye-catching saves.
"I was thinking it would be cool to see a game on the road. I have been looking all over this atlas but I don't see Vancouver anywhere. What state is this sh*t in!?"
- Dallas Stars Forum
by eightyseven on Feb 25, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
hasek had the special talent. he did things you can’t learn, that made im unique.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:16 AM PST up reply actions
I thought I heard that there was a political push to get more KHL players on the team so they could “showcase” their league over there? I mean, this may all be conjecture used to stir up controversy, and, honestly, I really don’t think they missed any big Russian NHLers. But its possible.
In any case, they should have at least picked KHLers who knew how to throw the body around.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
I am not glad, that have taken Федорова. Like planned to type a young command… Wanted as better, and it has turned out as always))) But I have smiled, when Americans have won Canadians selection round. And legionaries KHL was not too much. I do not think, that Radulov and Morozov have taken for political reasons. Simply they well play.
absolutely, radulov is better then the rest of russians in the nhl, about kozlov you can discuss.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 11:01 AM PST up reply actions
maybe, but the whole team was so bad yesterday. they lost all the battles, but also had so many turnovers, so many missed passes,no individual offensive actions.so i think there was a leck of passion no passion, i think the bigger problem then the khl players, all nhl players also failed. other days alex radulov for example is not the guy you should mess with and someone who can make chris pronger look like a stork picking aorund when he dangles in the corners.
maybe i repeat my self. there was no spirit.otherwise, the canadians would also top the russians in their traditional strength.
no matter if khl or nhl you have to block shots.
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Ребята, а как вообще американцы относятся к сборной команде Канады? Где-то читаю, что вы являетесь принципиальными соперниками. В другой статье читаю, что вы поддерживаете друг друга против сборных команд из Европы… Дело в том, что если наша команда выбывает из игры на каком-то этапе, а, например, украинцы или белорусы остаются, то мы переживаем за них также. А вы?
Assuming the Google translation of this is correct…
Canadians and Americans are rivals, sure, but it’s more of a big-brother, little-brother rivalry. There’s a bigger rivalry between each of those countries and Russia, to be honest. It also depends on who is on each team – since there are a lot of Sharks on Team Canada, it’s easier for me to root for them, even if I don’t want Canada to win any other medals in other sports. Same goes for European countries – if there are players on those countries’ teams, I will root for them to do well, and I will be happy for them if they win. But that’s just me. I’m sure there are other Americans who only want the US to win, and will wish for mutual destruction of the other teams if they didn’t.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Clearly)) And to me on Olympiad has liked a combined team of Slovakia, in any way they do not surrender. Bartechko has suffered… But I essentially do not wish to see Canada with gold medals! I think, you understand me))))
Yeah, I understand that. Just like how my friend is absolutely against China winning any medals at all.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Nope, completely white. He just doesn’t like how they develop athletes and the whole controversy with the gymnasts in Beijing.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
))))sorry….
Guys, how in general Americans concern to a combined team of Canada? Somewhere I read, that you are basic contenders. In other clause I read, that you support each other against combined teams from the Europe … The matter is that if our command leaves game at any stage, and, for example, Ukraines or Byelorussians remain, we experience for them also. And you?
My sense is that a Canadian will never cheer for USA (inferiority “small brother” complex). Many Americans on the other hand would cheer for Canada against a European team, feeling like they’re cheering for a neighbor.
Many Sharks fans want Canada to win, seeing how there are four players on that roster.
My sense is that a Canadian will never cheer for USA (inferiority "small brother" complex). Many Americans on the other hand would cheer for Canada against a European team, feeling like they’re cheering for a neighbor.
I can agree with this. Although in this Olympics, I’ve seen a lot of American fans hoping for canada to lose, even after the Americans beat them, because their fans are so arrogant and insistant that Hockey is their game and the gold is rightfully theirs. But generally speaking, the US will cheer for Canada when there’s no US interests at stake. But Canadians seem to have a hard time cheering for the US.
Maybe its because our hockey teams throughout all international competitions this season have been dominating the Canadians on Canadian soil. They’re probably getting tired of us celebrating hockey success on their ice.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
How does Russia deal with teams like the Slovaks?
Would they cheer for them to beat Canada?
Can you imagine the Slovaks or Czechs ever cheering for Russia? It’s kinda the same thing here. Canada is our hat. They resent us for thinking that way, but we don’t really care about them one way or another.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
If Russians ever cheer for anyone, it’s either a former USSR republic, or a fellow Orthodox country, like Serbia or Bulgaria.
When it comes to Catholic countries, we don’t ever cheer for them because animosity dates centuries back.
I shall disagree! I read at our forums, that many will to cheer Finland. As you understand, it any more USSR… Why you name these countries Orthodox? О.о
All this is somehow sad to me to hear from you…. Already like so much years has passed, as is not present USSR… Imperial ambitions, certainly, have remained with Russia, but only they and have remained…))) Now win the strongest. And though it is bitter to me to recognize, that Evan Lysacek has won Plushenko, but I recognize it…
Let’s not be about the politician… Russian do not love the American government, but we concern to Americans tolerantly. I respect with many American sportsmen, art workers, actors, composers. Everywhere there are nice talented people. And on Olympiad I shall be glad, if your command will receive gold medals…
Minor adendum. We hate that they think that the world should just give them the gold because they came up with hockey. Smug bastards, it’s our job to think that way about everything!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Damn straight!
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
I think a lot of Americans are just as loyal (if not more) to the players who play for their team during the regular season compared to players who play for their country. In this situation, that is why I think you will see Americans more likely to root on Canada— they are familiar with all of the players, and a good amount of them may have played for their team. The NHL is about 50% Canadian at this point.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Yeah, I actually find myself slightly torn between USA and one Shark and Canada and four Sharks. Granted, my nationalism is ultimately winning out, but Canada is definitely a close second, because I want Thornton, Marleau, Heatley, and Boyle to do well and shake the choker label.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Boyle doesn't have a choker label
He’s won the cup.
Which makes me think even if the Canadians win and all of the goals and points in general come only from Sharks they’ll still have that label.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Right. Wasn’t thinking when I included Boyle’s name under the choker label. But my point stands.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I don’t think that label gets shaked until the Sharks win the Stanley Cup, even if Patty and Jumbo destroy in the medal round. It seems more like an organizational accusation now, although the players obviously bear the stigma of the name.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Qualifying that a bit— Thornton definitely carried the label over from Boston, and Patty/Nabby have been the faces of the franchise for the better part of the decade. At this point, all of the players within the franchise seem to be lumped together in that category when people use the word “chokers.”
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Unfortunately, I don’t think Thornton has done too much to shake this label off himself in this tournament.
He needs to play big in the next two games – really big. In his terms that means at least three points in each game.
Watch him get 6 points and people still complain that he didn’t get 7.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
See, I’ve been exactly the opposite. Coming into the tournament, I thought I’d be cheering for the Canadian team almost as much as I was the US team…because of the Sharks connection. But as the tournament has gone on, I’ve been actively rooting against Canada. Maybe its because of their opposition (Germany for my roots, and Russia, I dunno, I just wanted Nabby to do well), but I have yet to really cheer for Canada in a game this year.
It’s all been about the US, and whatever is best for the US. Everything else has just kinda gone by the wayside. I can’t explain it, it just is what it is.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
ITA
From the get I said USA first…always…blindly always USA first…Canada number two…but I did realize I had not rooted for Canada as of yet and I feel a little bad about that. But your morals sets in and I just didn’t feel right to add fuel to the fire of the powerhouse team; especially when they’re just shutting down the opposition like the gestapo.
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 25, 2010 1:17 PM PST up reply actions
You shouldn’t feel bad not rooting for Canada. It’s perfectly fine hoping your Sharks do great but at the same time, hoping Canada loses each game. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
by ang6666 on Feb 25, 2010 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
Well I don’t wish it upon anyone to get humiliated on a world scale…but I was hoping to root for Canada at least once in there…LOL they sure don’t make it easy by tearing apart anyone in their way (aside from the US)….but I don’t wish them to lose every game either…man I’m a pansy!
GO USA the rest can go suck it!!!!!
//sigh i feel better now.
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 25, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
If I misunderstood your comment...sorry but...
Who me?? WO-man…Good WO-man…LOL :D
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 27, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
Agree about the small/big brother stuff – it’s almost like the people in Canada think of themselves as a local Mom & Pop Shop and the USA is Walmart. They view the US as a this militiristic-corporate monster (which I do sort of agree with.)
"Bronze - not good enough, Silver - won't cut it, Gold - the only option." From a Canadian hockey TV program about the 2010 Winter Olympics
I find it strange that many Americans think this way. Btw, I’m not trying to offend anyone, so please don’t take it that way.
Have you ever been outside of America? It seems that most American children have been brainwashed to think that they live in some sort of paradise. I’ve been all over America and I choose to live in Canada. This is the best place that I’ve found.
For the record, I always cheered for America, unless they were competing against Canada until I was in Milwaukee for a week during the Bejing Olympics. I met a really nice group of guys (all Americans) at a training session. I was so annoyed by the arrogance of the Americans when the Olympics were on TV that I can’t cheer for them anymore.
Americans, in general are arrogant to the point that people from other countries are repulsed by them. Most people would rather see a humble person win that one who’s going to boast about it.
It’s a sure sign of a huge ego to think that people hate you because you’re so great.
Americans are indoctrinated in many ways
A good majority of the people on this board at between 18 and 30. This is the generation that was raised in the world in which “America had won the Cold War.” We’ve been fed the line all our lives that “America is the greatest country in the world.” Whenever American politicians try and frame foreign relations, it’s through that lens. And, by and large, I think we believe it, simply because, yes, it has been shoved down our throats.
But we’re also one of the most mobile generations in world history. Part of that is our being wired and more in touch with the outside world, but it’s also a lot easier and a lot more common to travel. So this American narrative is butting right up with reality.
Arrogance is often a first defense when presented with things that upset your world view. But, some of it is deserved. America may not be the greatest place in the world, but it’s pretty darn good. And, for better or worse, America is a force in this world. Sometimes for good, sometimes not. It’s important, then, for Americans to believe some of the hype so that they use it, I think.
Sports are a reflection of our society as a whole, all the good, and all the bad. It’s nice that it shows the best of us, but it’s also telling that it can show the worst of us as well.
The greatest athletes are the ones who realize there is always room for improvement, and they have to strive to be better. That’s true of people as a whole too.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I agree completely with most of what you’re saying. America was a great country and still is a very good one, but to paraphrase Bill Maher – America has to stop bragging and start working to be great again.
What world view are you referring to?
I didn’t say that America isn’t the best place in the world to live because it’s impossible to determine that. It’s the fact that America tries to make everyone think that their better than everyone else. It’s really repulsive.
My point is that people outside of the US have a hard time cheering for Americans because of the same reason that I hate to see Brock Lesnar win in the UFC.
A lot of the world hates on the US because they think we are arrogant. Well, you know what, WE ARE! We think we’re the best, and we act like we’re the best. But we also strive to be the best. And we put resources into being the best. It’s how this country rose up to become the premier superpower in the world.
But I don’t think this is unusual, or even surprising. All great empires and countries in the history of the world came about because of huge egos (forgive me here, I’m going to be pretty simplistic in my examples). The Soviets felt it was their right to rule everything around them, as well as to dominate in the Olympics to show their true might. The British Empire felt the need to civilize the savages of the world and spread their rule all over the world. Napoleon had a huge ego (as well as an inferiority complex) and felt the need to take over the world. Hell, even Julius Caesar and The Roman Empire felt it was their right to expand the Roman Empire’s borders as far and as wide as they could!
Like it or not, the US has been the premier world power for the last half century, and only up until recently, it hasn’t even been close. Along with being a superpower comes an ego and an arrogance. It comes with being the best.
It’s a sure sign of a huge ego to think that people hate you because you’re so great.
A huge ego is needed to build a great nation. So it’s really pretty hard to tell whether its the ego people hate, or if its being great that they resent. Both are probably accurate. But either way, great nations are going to be resented…and are also going to have huge egos. On a much smaller scale, I want Canada to lose in the Hockey tournament because they are the best, and their fans have the ego that comes along with being the best. It annoys me, but it annoys me because if they are the best, it means we are not the best. I think a lot of it can be boiled down to just that right there.
Personally, I’ve never wondered why people around the world resent the Americans. It’s always been pretty clear to me, and I don’t really mind it. Its just one of the things you have to deal with when you are on top.
but to paraphrase Bill Maher – America has to stop bragging and start working to be great again.
I’ll agree with you here, though. The US has been sitting back and resting on its laurels for far too long now. All great countries in the past have fallen because once they get to the top, they stop working hard to continue being great.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
I’m much happier with America being the worlds only superpower than any of the other countries that are populated enough to do it.
My comment had nothing to do with politics, nationality or anything like that. It was stated that Canadians have an inferiority complex and I just stated that it wasn’t the case. In reality, when Canadians cheer against America, it’s because most people would rather see the cocky guy lose.
I just watched the Woman’s Gold Medal game and actually felt bad for some of the American girls who were crying. The reason is because they didn’t talk shit before the game and they don’t bragg when they win.
we don't all brag and walk around with puffed out chests
that’s just the popularized image. Sure, it comes from somewhere, all stereotypes are rooted in truth (true whether we like it or not), and I’m seeing the Canadian act like “Americans” at SOME events in these games and it’s equally as annoying.
It’s not your damn game. You guys invented and shared it. The world owns it now. It’s everybody’s game! No one’s going to forget you made it, but it’s no longer all yours. (sharing is caring, right? or checking. Sharing is checking someone hard into the boards)
You don’t ever deserve a medal, either. You earn one. That goes for all countries who make that claim.
A lot of that is coming off of the whole make it 7 thing. That whole thing was a mess.
I don’t mind people pointing out weaknesses, but they need to see their own too. At least that way we all feel equally depressed. ;)
I also figure if country A can brag when they win, countries B-Z can too. Oddly it’s just not always seen that way, but then again, I’m the only person who see the world the way I do.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
Of course you don’t all brag. I never said anything like that.
The whole point of my comments is that:
1) Many Canadians do cheer for the US when Canada isn’t competing
and,
2) The only Canadian inferiority complex that exists, is in the minds of Americans.
we don't all think Canada is inferior, either
It’s a popular joke for sure, but we don’t all believe it. (I do tend to think it’s colder up there than where I am, but I also think the same thing about Seattle and all points that far north of my present location) Besides, I like hats. And I should think most people like pants. We can’t all be Lady Gaga. I mean, Mexico is probably like EFF YOU GUYS I’m the SHOES. That is the short end of the stick right there.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
SHOES!!!!
Hehehe nice!
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 27, 2010 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed.
I have no probably rooting for the Canadians in games not against the USA, especially that Sharks are on the term. I doubt it is the same for Toronto fans and say Phil Kessel, however.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 25, 2010 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I’m honestly surprised Leafs fans can still cheer for the Leafs sometimes…
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
Badum Psh.
I think most people who were born after their last Cup are also.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 25, 2010 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not going to lie, I was rooting for Canada. That being said, I feel like in the past 12 hours, Russia has essentially been made into Toyota, with people like Greg Wyshynski (who, I might add, predicted Russia would dominate), completely dogging Russia to the point where it’s not even credible hockey reporting. I’ve always thought Greg Wyshynski’s a colossal piece of shit, and this merely served to further reinforce my opinion of him. Then you have people like Milbury who make equally asinine remarks.
There’s a difference between winning, and winning gracefully, and many Americans and Canadians, whether fans or writers, that have weighed in on the results of this game have consistently demonstrated a complete lack of class. An even cursory glance at some of the comments on Assynski’s blog of last night will show you that. It’s hard not to point out the similarities between the aftermath of this game, and the Toyota situation. A company and team that have been so dominant in their respective fields over the year falter, and the world leaps all over them. I guess I shouldn’t be that surprised.
I chose to root for Canada last night, though I was also pulling for Nabby. I was ready to throw thing at the tv for how he was treated by the on air commentators last night. The entire treatment of the Russian team afterwords made me sick. I had to turn the tv off and close twitter because I was fuming. It pretty much ruined the game for me, which sucks.
I was rooting for Canada because of the four Sharks on the team. I would have been happy to pull for Russia as well, solely because of Nabby. My nationalism wins out of course, and I favor the US in any event by default, but if we’re not playing I really don’t care who wins. I just want good hockey. (and good reporting on it! I won’t even read Wysh’s stuff for the next few days. And he’s not the only one I’m avoiding) I may have grown up on the old Cold War Bond movies, but I could really care less about that version of Russia. Give me good hockey, regardless of where the players are from and I’ll be happy.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
It helps that a lot of us here are young enough to have been born at the tale end of the Cold War, or after the Soviet Union fell, so we don’t have those old animosities lying around.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
Yeah, I was almost 6 months old when the Soviet Union officially dissolved. Soviet Russia, to me, is just something I read about in history textbooks and what the old maps at my old high school would show instead of Russia. Also: source of great “In Soviet Russia, [noun] [verb] you!” jokes.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I only read him when he posts something somewhat amusing. Otherwise I avoid him. He’s just not for me.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
I share your opinion about him, but at least he writes about everything and is usually quick to publish.
He’s very bias though. Check how he did not drop any crap on Kovalchuk, who’s now a devil.
I’m fairly certain Kovulchuck isn’t at the olympics…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I hesitate to ask… About whom you now speak? He is any journalist? The commentator? Brought up on hatred to USSR? Has not understood…
Greg Wyshynski is the editor and main writer at the blog Puck Daddy. He’s occasionally funny, and hates all Sharks except for Greiss for some reason.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
If Joe Thornton is invisible, then Kovalchuk is a black hole of light. He’s been less than ineffective for Russia, and somehow doesn’t get any criticism.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
It will be interesting to see how he performs in the playoffs this season. One career goal to his name when Atlanta got swept in 2007.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
You’re right, Ivano. Wysh does write often and about a lot of different things, which is one of the few things I like about his stuff. I just find the substance is often lacking. Like I said, he’s just not for me.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
I read the Puck Daddy blog but definitely not to hear Wysh’s opinions or writings. I check the blog because he always reports on interesting things that may have happened in the games that night such as big hits, amazing goals, fights, etc. and he usually includes videos of them from youtube or something; plus he also links to a lot of interesting articles about things going on around the NHL.
One more question for you all?
Everyone said that out of the four NHL Olympics, this Russian squad was the most stacked.
Now that I look at our 1998 squad, I am starting to doubt that.
Malkin, Ovechkin, Gonchar, Datsyuk, Semin and the rest
vs
Fedorov, Bure, Kamenski, Zhamnov, Yashin, Kasparaitis – all in their primes (full roster is here).
I’m not sure I’d pick 2010 vs 1998. It seems 1998 squad is more stacked, especially in the lower bottom, as most players were NHL players.
Which team would you pick?
I dont know… I like a command 2010 more. Simply to them it was necessary for more time for trainings. It seems to me, a class of modern Russian players above, simply there is no unity in collective. The command 1998 played by the Soviet principle " the brother for the brother ". And the command 2010 plays everyone for itself, everyone tried to distinguish, show, on what it is capable. This energy to direct it was necessary on the necessary channel…
Yeah, I have to agree with you here. I think the 2010 Russia team was more talented across the board…but they never came together and found that chemistry as a team. That’s what sets them apart from other Russia teams of the past.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 25, 2010 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Journeymen
There were a lot more journeymen, well established NHLers on that roster. Also, there was a legitimate D corp.
I’d like to think that the 2010 squad is better because they have more star power, but they never came together. The “injuns vs. cheifs” analogy, as offensive as it might be, is apt. The ’98 roster had a lot more role players who probably would have been eager and willing to fill roles for their country, and maybe would not have been asked to play so far out of their normal NHL type role.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Role players – yes. That’s a Canadian term. There were never role players on the old USSR teams – they were all one big machine.
The 1998 team however, as one may notice, did not have the best players. Kovalev, Zubov, Mogilny are missing. Some for political reasons, others due to injury – I can’t remember now.
This time they got all who were invited to play, except Zubov who acted like a prick and didn’t show up to the training camp, claiming he had injury, but didn’t bother to call the coaches.
if able to pick a fantasy team 1998 including mogilny, fetisov, konstantinov, kozlov, larionov
maybe i would prefer 1998 squad.
but on the other hand, what else could you wish then this years line up.
diffycult choice…
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
Guys, it was pleasant to communicate with you! But at us in Russia all already for a long time sleep, I`ll go too)))) we`ll watch the further succession of events… Good-bye)))
Welcome again
Hope to hear more from you soon.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
ok, i’m going to log out, was really nice talk about hockey with you guys. i’m excited about the next days in vancouver.
good article, ivano.
good bye from hockey nation germany :-)
by Christoph Wollmann on Feb 25, 2010 2:06 PM PST reply actions
bye! It was nice having you here! :)
"Boys only voluntarily hug when someone scores."
"Hockey players wear numbers because you can’t always identify the body with dental records."—Anonymous
by mssjsclowie29 on Feb 25, 2010 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
This is great stuff, Ivano
I completely agree. Since the first game I’ve been saying Bykov was Russia’s biggest weakness. The players didn’t hold up their end last night, but I don’t even know that they could have won if they played well with the coaching they got.
Russia’s GM Tretiak stated that it was Bykov who picked the team. If that was the case, how could he do that without regularly watching his top stars in action?
To give one example – could it be that Volchenkov was not used in the role he was supposed to be used because Bykov simply did not know him enough? Is that acceptable that the most physical defenseman on the roster only spent 15 minutes on the ice against Canada?
I mean, there’s a laundry list of others, but using AO 3 times in the SO was a terrible decision. So was using Kovalchuk on the PK. So was letting Malkin take a face off after an icing when Datsyuk was on the ice as well.
he was still using the old Soviet tactics, such as rolling all four lines equally, or using four pairs of defensemen, or long shifts for his lines, or not having special teams for power play and penalty kill opportunities. While these strategies may worked against inferior opponents, such as Latvia or Czech Republic, they fell apart against 100% NHL squad of Canada.
That literally sounds like he was coaching a men’s league team. Hysterical (er, not if you’re a Russian).
CAN had two tough games. Against SUI and USA. The tape was there. The game plan was available if Bykov bothered to look. You have to get he puck deep and hit the CAN D. Russia refused to do that so they spent the whole game turning the puck over at the blueline.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 25, 2010 4:17 PM PST reply actions
Unfortunately, there us is no one better. No Russians coach in the NHL, and the old coaches all had a chance to try their luck with Team Russia and they all failed.
I think they’ll keep Bykov going forward. He at least won two WCs, He’ll learn – he’s got four years.
It’s also the organization of the whole team. Bykov even mentioned to Russian press that he doesn’t know NHL all that well. While it’s shocking, this could easily be compensated by a few scouts.
Team Canada is a machine and everyone on that staff knows exactly what they’re doing.
I can’t believe they would keep Bykov. He may have won 2 WCs but that’s not the same as the Olympics. The pressure isn’t the same, and it’s not a true best on best tournament. One of the Canadian teams he beat had Jamal Mayers on it. How can you coach the Olympics and not know the NHL? Even the amateur NOR goalie said he scouted some of the NHL players by watching NHL On the Fly.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 26, 2010 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
If they let him stay, they should at least make him spend a year or two studying the NHL game, so he knows how to use his players next time around…
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 26, 2010 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said, there are practically no other Russian coaches to choose from. They can risk it and go with a complete rookie, like they did back in 2002 in SLC by picking Slava Fetisov, but that’s too much risk.
The hope here is that Bykov would learn from this experience.
What I would do is keep him, but tell him that he needs to focus on Team Russia only two years before the Olympics. Visit the NHL on a regular basis, keep in touch with potential players, etc.
What about Igor Larionov? I’ve heard that Russia is unlikely to offer him the job, and that he’s even more unlikely to accept. What’s the story there? Judging by the post-loss reaction he seems to be the guy with the best handle on the situation.
Killer_Carlson and Steckel Me Elmo are like brothers to me. And when I say brothers I don't mean like actual brothers. I mean it like how black people use it, which is more meaningful, I think.
by Fehr and Balanced on Feb 28, 2010 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed on the point about Russia's coaching, Ivano.
I could somewhat tell he was not going to be that good of a coach when Datsyuk was used only once in the SO against the Slovaks. Datsyuk is dynamite in the skills competition and could have won that game.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 25, 2010 6:29 PM PST reply actions
That I think was a major lack of scouting.
Any NHL die hard fan who knows the NHL players could have picked better SO shooters.
Yeah, you're right.
Still, his team should have scouted more, especially with the NHL players.
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Feb 26, 2010 5:14 PM PST up reply actions
Thank-you (ya'll) for being civilized
in your discourse about hockey. Re previous comments on thread -as a Canadian, I have my doubts that Americans are generally more arrogant than others. Humility was a cherished trait in America – at least pre 1950s. If people seek to go on about how great their country is, they may be less arrogant than just boring or puerile. Or how great it is to live in the mountains. No doubt modern media has coursened western society trying to make a buck from the lowest commmon denominator. Why else would they put the camera on the blockhead who brings the “It’s Our Game” sign to the hockey game? To prove his critics wrong, your goalie Nabokov may get on a roll in this years playoffs – or should I say may your goalie Nabokov get on a roll in this years playoffs! A good script, I would say! The Sharks turn!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Fear The Fin
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Trending Topics: Odd arbitration decisions; more NHLers Tweeting
- Ovechkin wins fifth Kharlamov Trophy, talks Talbot
- Puck Headlines: Witt hits waivers; Kovalchuk grievance details set
- Jersey Fouls: Sharks get creatively awful; hockey movie pass/fail
- White, Flames agree to one-year deal; Bruins sign Wheeler
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
