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Around SBN: MLB Trade Rumors: Edwin Jackson to the White Sox, DC next?

Trade Targets: Braydon Coburn (PHI)

"Trade Targets" will be a recurring piece on Fear The Fin until the March 3rd deadline, in which Plank and TCY will explore trade possibilities for the San Jose Sharks. Previous pieces of this nature can be found here.

With news that Ray Emery will be out for the season (and possibly his career) with avascular necrosis, Philadelphia is rumored to be looking for a goaltender. As we have addressed previously, it is our opinion that San Jose needs a top four defenseman in order to shore up the blueline and reduce Rob Blake’s minutes. The Nashville Predators, as we touched upon here, are rumored to be looking for a forward to help during their stretch run.

Last night, a deal involving Ryan Parent (PHI) and Dan Hamhuis (NSH) was scrapped because Nashville reportedly wanted a forward in return. Both Parent and Braydon Coburn have been mentioned in trade speculation this week by the Philadelphia Inquirer.

From my end, this proposed deal works out for all parties:

To PHI: Dan Ellis (G), Dan Hamhuis (D)

To SJS: Braydon Coburn (D)

To NSH: Ryane Clowe (F), Benn Ferriero (F)

Pull the trigger on that in a heartbeat.

Nashville receives a top six forward in Ryane Clowe and burgeoning prospect in Benn Ferriero, as well as trading from their defensive depth. They have been looking for a forward to slide into the top six. Philadelphia receives a goaltender as well as a player they have been linked to the last twenty four hours. San Jose receives a young defenseman who will slide onto either the top or second pairing, and rids themselves of Ryane Clowe's contract to free up space heading into next offseason.

Although Nashville GM David Poile has been playing hardball with Philadelphia, I think he may be holding out in order to attempt to drive up the price. Nashville has an internal cap of roughly $48 M, and there is no way they manage to resign both Hamhuis and Ellis if they are looking to upgrade their offensive capabilities.

Braydon Coburn is a tough minutes defenseman, who plays a physical style and can be counted on to shut down opposing teams top lines. He hits, blocks shots, and works tirelessly in the corners. Offensively he is relatively unsung, but he moves the puck well up the ice with strong breakout passes, and has a very good shot from the point. He would easily play on San Jose’s power play, likely on the second unit with Rob Blake to provide a lefty-righty dynamic that would faciliate one-timers.

24 years old with a $1.3 M cap hit, an RFA in July. Would likely come in at around $3.0 M per year as his stock has dropped this season. Legitimate top four defenseman in years to come, and if paired with Marc-Edouard Vlasic, would provide San Jose one of the best shutdown duos in the Western Conference, both this year and well into the future.

Make the jump for analysis from our SBN partners covering the Nashville Predators and Philadelphia Flyers.

Star-divide

Clowe definitely would help Nashville but the problem is, I don't see NSH trading Ellis. They need a solid backup to Rinne.

I think the rule with NSH is that they do want a forward who can help this year in return for Hamhuis. That makes a straight deal difficult, and perhaps a 3-way would work, although they're tough to assemble.

- Dirk Hoag from On The Forecheck

From a Flyers perspective, the deal could certainly work. Paul Holmgren says he's confident in Michael Leighton but I think he'd jump at the chance to add a guy like Dan Ellis. Dan Hamhuis would be a great addition to our oft-injured blueline as well. Braydon Coburn has regressed a lot this season but he still has a lot of upside, and I'd say that Hamhuis is a better player than him right now. It'd be a no-brainer from our end, as long as the salary cap implications work out.

By my quick calculations it would put us just under the cap as well.

- Travis Hughes from Broad Street Hockey

Contrarians Corner (TCY): Although I agree that Coburn is a beast, this is a tough one to swing. Not only is it a three way deal, but Coburn is also an RFA at the end of the season, adding another potential headache down the road to go along with Pavelski and Setoguchi's contract negotiations. Coburn would be a solid pairing partner with Vlasic, though, and would help to make our defense younger. The age of the Sharks blueliners has been a concern, and with the lack of any blue chip blue line prospects in the system, the addition of Coburn would be welcome going forward (assuming he resigns at a reasonable price). That's a possibility, since his value has dropped from 2008, which in turn is also a concern.

Also, even though I advocated trading Ferriero earlier in the season (in a deal for Seidenberg), I hesitate to move both he and Clowe together, considering the dearth of forward prospects in the system. If a pick was involved, coming to the Sharks (maybe a 3 or 4), I'd be all for this deal. I still may pull the trigger as currently constructed.

All in all, even though it's a solid deal, three way trades almost never happen. DW can't complete a transaction of this magnitude! However, if he does, they'll be dancing on the forest moon of Endor, to be certain.

 

 

Go Sharks.

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No blue line blue chip prospects?

I know Petrecki is struggling a little, but he is still a top prospect, no?

I admittedly don’t know much about Coburn. Honestly, with Wallin coming in and Demers up and Vlasic due back before the playoffs, I don’t know that another Dman is in the works. And what do you do with Huskins in that scenario?

Clowe back on the 2nd line tonight with Pavs and Seto, even with Manny back. We will see if that line finally develops any chemistry.

by ruben398 on Mar 2, 2010 4:39 PM PST reply actions  

Blue Chip

Usually means “cant miss”. Althogh I was impressed with him earlier, I wouldn’t call him “blue chip”. Don’t know if I would have before the season, either.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by TCY on Mar 2, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Hockey's Future

Who I usually trust for prospect analysis, agrees with me. He’s rated as a 7.0 C. Explanations below.

7 – Second line forward / No. 3-4 defenseman / journeyman No. 1 goaltender — players not quite good enough to play on the top line or pairing on a regular basis, but still possessing enough talent to contribute offensively, defend with some authority, or competently play the goaltender’s position for long stretches. Think Andrew Cassels, Jason Arnott, Darryl Sydor, Keith Carney, Dwayne Roloson, Jeff Hackett.

C – May reach potential, could drop 2 ratings – has shown some flashes, but may ultimately not have what it takes to reach his potential. The potential rating is multiplied by 80 percent for depth chart purposes to show the uncertainty of a player reaching his potential.

Visit hockeysfuture.com for more.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by TCY on Mar 2, 2010 4:54 PM PST up reply actions  

yeah, hockeyfutures is the only resource I know of for NHL prospects

By them, Couture isn’t really much better of a prospect, nor is Stalock (whom they see as no more than a backup).

Their grades seem to me very conservative. In Petrecki’s profile, they say his future is “shut down physical defender.” I would think that Petrecki’s downside is something like Mike Rathje, and his upside is somewhere near Rob Blake, with his “weighted mean projection” as an Adam Foote/Chris Phillips type. At least, those are they guys I think of when I think “shut down physical defender”.

But man, has his stock fallen in these parts! I remember calls for Petrecki to make the team out of camp after he scored a pretty goal and had some big hits.

by ruben398 on Mar 2, 2010 6:06 PM PST up reply actions  

They have very conservative projections on their prospects, and I tend to take what they say with a grain of salt. I’d like to think the 7.0 rating is an apt level for Couture and Petrecki, as neither is a generational talent. That doesn’t mean we think poorly of him, or don’t think he has alot of room for growth. Quoting Plank and myself from the FTF Regular Season Cheat Sheet:

Petrecki, the big defensemen with the even bigger shot, was the sexy pick to make the team out of camp. Somewhere along the way though (after a fight which took him out of 55 minutes of an exhibition match on a game misconduct), the coaches decided that Petrecki needed time to hone his professional game in Worcester.
He could have easily made the team, but FTF thinks that it’s better he didn’t. Although Matt Carle played admirably in his first NHL season, he didn’t have the polish of a professional player. We’re thinking that the Sharks don’t want to make that same mistake twice.
In Worcester, Petrecki will get the chance to experience hockey at a professional level, and get a feel for the game. That’s a good thing, because when he makes it up to the big leagues (possibly even this season), he’ll have the polish needed to really succeed. It’s nice to see San Jose finally take a page out of Detroit’s book, and season their top prospects in the minors a little instead of throwing them into the fray immediately. Petrecki will patrol the Sharks blue line for a long time, and this small bump in the road will do little to affect his long term future with the organization.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by TCY on Mar 2, 2010 6:51 PM PST up reply actions  

In this scenario, Huskins would be a healthy scratch. Coburn’s cap hit isn’t a concern (1.3), especially if you move Clowe. Therefore, Huskins’ salary is a non-issue after tomorrow. All you have now is more depth.

Maybe you flip Huskins in the offseason if need be, or put him through waivers now, or trade him for a low round pick, whatever. That shouldn’t be the hangup if you’re making a move for Braydon Coburn; it’s essentially a non-issue for me in this hypothetical trade.

Coburn’s a beast, and literally has the potential to become a top defenseman in the league. I’m not hyperbolizing (is that a word? don’t think so) when I say that he and Vlasic would be one of the best shutdown pairings in the Western Conference both this year, and well into the future.

I do this deal nine times out of eight.

"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Mar 2, 2010 4:52 PM PST up reply actions  

I actually really like Coburn. If we could get him for Clowe and Ferriero, I’d be pretty cool with that.

"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott

by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 2, 2010 4:40 PM PST reply actions  

Ponif Ponaver. Poneriovfskof

Fuck it. Nevermind.

I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.

by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Mar 2, 2010 4:47 PM PST reply actions  

Can I get the country of origin please?

Ukraine.

*faints, then stands up

“P-O-N-I-K-A-R-O-V-S-K-Y. Ponikarovsky”

Scott Nichol re: his US-born son: He was all about Canada. He’s only six so I can manipulate him pretty good.
Puck Daddy: You would definitely hate the Ducks more than you'd hate the Kings, right?
Joe Pavelski: Yeah, definitely.

by DownRUpLYB on Mar 2, 2010 4:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Not only is it a three way deal, but Coburn is also an RFA at the end of the season, adding another potential headache down the road to go along with Pavelski and Setoguchi’s contract negotiations.

Disagree wholeheartedly. Coburn and Vlasic together is a pairing you can build a franchise around. Far from a headache. His stock has dropped this season, making a three year deal at roughly $3 M a year a decent ballpark figure.

If you have an opportunity to land a potential premier defenseman, you do it. If he’s potentially being shopped (which he is, as evidenced by the article I linked) you pull out all the stops.

"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Mar 2, 2010 4:59 PM PST reply actions  

just read the philly article you linked

damn Poile is trying to fleece philly if he’s really asking for parent and coburn in return for hamhuis. who does he think he is, Doug Wilson?

Scott Nichol re: his US-born son: He was all about Canada. He’s only six so I can manipulate him pretty good.
Puck Daddy: You would definitely hate the Ducks more than you'd hate the Kings, right?
Joe Pavelski: Yeah, definitely.

by DownRUpLYB on Mar 2, 2010 5:03 PM PST up reply actions  

The money allocated to Coburn will work against that being used to resign the teams impending RFA’s and UFA’s.

That’s all I’m saying. Not taking anything away from his skill. Just saying that having three RFA’s who are above average and will likely all recieve contracts in excess of $3MM will be tough, especially when you also have to resign your top 10 NHL goal scorer and elite NHL netminder. Just talking about cash money, holmes.

And I think you mean the article I sent to you that you linked. Boom.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by TCY on Mar 2, 2010 5:04 PM PST up reply actions  

And I think you mean the article I sent to you that you linked. Boom.

That I told you to send me because my internet was wonky and I was on the shitter. Douche.

Braydon Coburn makes the team better, both now and in the future. You advocated Kaberle, who is $1.1 M more, and only signed for one more year compared to a hypothetical three or whatever if we sign Coburn.

I’m of the opinion you let Nabokov walk this offseason if he asks for 2+ years at 5 M+. With the year he has had thus far, it is very possible a GM puts that on the table for him. I’m not counting on Nabby re-signing next season, and by bringing in a young defensive defenseman with offensive capabilities, you do a lot to help ease the transition to another goaltender.

I understand that cash money concern, and it’s obviously been something that we both have covered— hell, I brought it up in March of last season. But $3M for Coburn should not be a hangup. And let’s say, hypothetically, that it is. Then let him walk and collect the draft picks you get since he’s an RFA. Simple shit. It still makes the team better this season, and that’s the ultimate goal.

"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Mar 2, 2010 5:21 PM PST up reply actions  

That I told you to send me because my internet was wonky and I was on the shitter. Douche.

Interesting. Very interesting. Writing posts in the office, eh?

"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott

by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 2, 2010 5:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I like this trade, even though I’m still a bit iffy on giving up prospects at this point.

The saving grace is that he’s an RFA so it’s not a rental.

"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda

by Evilducks on Mar 2, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions  

I dunno, his advanced stats don't exactly scream "stud" to me...

He is basically PHI’s 2nd most protected dman. He plays with 2nd/3rd line forwards. Yet he is still on the ice for more goals allowed than scored. In fact, he is the 2nd worst regular defenseman on the team as far as goals against per 60 minutes.

Now, I’ll give that PHI’s Dmen probably universally suffer from their poor goaltending. But I’ll say something pretty out there… I don’t think Coburn is better, right now, than Kent Huskins as far as overall value. Coburn, at least, should be able to outshine the likes of Ryan Parent and Kimmo Timonen on his own team.

Maybe the scouting report says something different, but the numbers say “overrated”. I think I would pass in our situation.

by ruben398 on Mar 2, 2010 6:21 PM PST reply actions  

Outshine Timonen? You’re kidding right? Timonen’s practically a number 1 dman, and was for all intensive purposes, their number 1 dman until Pronger got there.

I agree with TCY here. I’d be more than happy with this trade if we got a 3rd rounder out of it. I’d also be happy if they replaced Ferriero with a depth forward like Lucia, McCarthy or Henderson.

As for where to get prospect information, I’d strongly suggest avoiding Hockey’s Future as a source of accurate information. Most of their Sharks prospect listings are extremely out of date and/or wrong. I’d suggest going with the list of prospects (with descriptions) on Sharkspage.com which you can find here. It’s from the preseason but still much better than most others.

by tarlinian on Mar 2, 2010 9:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Definitely on Hockey’s Future. But it’s a benchmark. Not many of those available.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by TCY on Mar 2, 2010 9:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Like Tarlinian mentioned, Timonen is a very good defenseman, and has been for awhile.

As for Coburn’s advanced metrics, look at the two previous years (08, 07). Very good. Like I said in the article his stock has dropped this year, but I’ve watched some Philly games and he hasn’t looked as bad as those statistics may indicate. An off-year, nothing more in my eyes. A comparison to Kent Huskins is quite a reach honestly.

Ryan Parent is also a solid defensive defenseman, and one that I wouldn’t mind in a Sharks jersey. For Clowe? Not before a playoff run. But if the cap gets tight next year and you have to dump Clowe to clear salary (the obvious solution, I think, if the situation arises) he would be someone I wouldn’t mind if packaged with something else. Not speculating on whether Philly pulls the trigger on it (already have Hartnell, don’t need Clowe really), but just saying that he is solid in his own right.

Anyways, Coburn. I still make this deal. I think a lot of us tend to think of Clowe (and Staubitz for that matter) as “young prospects.” Clowe is 27, Staubitz 25. They should be either entering or in their prime right now.

"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Mar 3, 2010 12:04 AM PST up reply actions  

I would be happy with this move.

But, the trade deadline already passed in my NHL 2K10 franchise and for selfish reasons, I hope no move is made (I kid, I kid)

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Mar 2, 2010 6:43 PM PST reply actions  

I own a Wii and it is great on Wii.

I don’t own a 360 or PS3. Plus I still am not over EA giving up on NHL for the PC.

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Mar 2, 2010 7:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I suppose thats legit

I used to have 2K7 – but when NHL 08 came out with the stick control it was all over.

I just got into the Online Be A Pro mode in NHL 10 – it’s like crack.

by jMoneyBrah on Mar 2, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh yeah.

No doubt NHL 10 is the superior game, but it was not an option for me. 2K10 has some good deking controls on Wii, especially with Wii MotionPlus (from what I hear.)

Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Mar 2, 2010 10:02 PM PST up reply actions  

The Wii rocks! I wish I had one.

I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!

by Diamondback15 on Mar 3, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions  

hmm.

As for the team, trade seems decent but not sure if it’s worth it.

Go Sharks!

by Dmitriy on Mar 2, 2010 8:12 PM PST reply actions  

Quick Edit!

I meant just for the team – no As xD oops – sorry about that Mr. Plankzor D:

Go Sharks!

by Dmitriy on Mar 2, 2010 8:13 PM PST up reply actions  

Is there somebody we could trade in Ferrerio's place who is not named Couture or.............

damn it, who’s the other forward on Worcester’s top line?
I just don’t want a trade involving our future top line.

I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!

by Diamondback15 on Mar 3, 2010 6:58 AM PST reply actions  

Zalewski, you mean? And I know McGinn was on the top line when Couture was out…

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages

by mymclife on Mar 4, 2010 8:33 PM PST up reply actions  

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