Joe Thornton sees unusual TOI splits against Minnesota

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 2:02 PM PDT in Coaching From The Couch

Ice time.

It is a coach's greatest tool to send a message, to make a point. And whether that statement is made in order to elevate the performance of an individual player, the team as a whole, or both, it always has the potential to serve as a wake up call.

In a 4-1 win against the Minnesota Wild last night, Joe Thornton was relegated to the third line with wingers Torrey Mitchell and Ryane Clowe, a far cry from the premier goal scorers of Dany Heatley and Patrick Marleau that he has spent a notable portion of the year with. And as Ivano mentioned in last night's recap, Thornton saw a huge decrease in his even strength time because of it.

What interested me however, was the amount of shorthanded time McLellan divvied out to the All-Star centerman. Throughout the course of the last six games, Thornton's ice time has shown some interesting trends:

Joe Thornton (6 GP)

event	EV TOI	RK	SH TOI	RK	PP TOI	RK
@ Anaheim	14:47	4th	1:40	5th	3:55	T-1st
@ Dallas	14:32	2nd	0:15	8th	4:43	3rd
@ Vancouver	18:12	2nd	0:22	6th	2:45	3rd
@ Calgary	14:02	4th	0:32	7th	3:00	T-2nd
@ Edmonton	13:36	6th	0:42	5th	2:43	3rd
@ Minnesota	11:29	9th	2:17	3rd	5:09	2nd
09-10 Average	15:27	2nd	1:01	6th	3:31	1st

Up until last night Thornton's even strength ice had remained relatively stable in comparison to his forward counterparts-- the same can be said for his shorthanded ice time. But against Minnesota, McLellan drastically reduced the amount of time he spent on the ice at even strength and tapped him an inordinate amount while on the penalty kill.

Taken as a snapshot these numbers can be fairly deceiving-- one of San Jose's best penalty killers in Scott Nichol was out of the lineup, and Jed Ortmeyer was just coming back from injury. Todd McLellan has historically eased players back into their shorthanded roles, and this may account for the amount of time Thornton saw on the kill.

But coupled with his decreased even strength time over the last three games, I think a case could be made that McLellan was attempting to send a message through his star player. In fact, it may not have even been solely for Thornton alone-- the team as a whole has had a hard time performing defensively this season, and this allocation of ice time could serve as a canvass for McLellan to paint the picture that, "Hey, everyone is accountable here. We need to get better in our own zone, and that starts with our top-end offensive players."

As it should. And as it will, if San Jose is going build upon last night's win as they make their way towards April.

Go Sharks.

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Comments

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with this one.

I think a case could be made that McLellan was attempting to send a message through his star player.

Thornton looked really pissed in his post game interview – not the usual happy guy after a win. He also showed zero emotion on that empty net goal, which could be another indicator about how he felt about playing less ES time than Couture.

He, of course, mentioned that McLellan is trying to spread the scoring among all three lines. Maybe that’s the case, and in fact, it is a first time this season that all the Big Three are playing on all different lines, but in my mind that was an easy way to cover up that perhaps McLellan was sending Joe a message.

Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.

by Ivano M on Mar 24, 2010 2:18 PM PDT reply actions

After the Edmonton game I don’t think McLellan trusted him on ice on even strength anymore. Put him out there with two guys that are actually working their tails off right now and stuck him on the PK more.

Joe needed a good kick in the ass after that game and I think this served it pretty well.

"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda

by Evilducks on Mar 24, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Good. Joe needs to get angry. He needs to play with a chip on his shoulder. He is SUCH a better player when he plays that way.

Hopefully, McL doesn’t change things back right away, and makes Thornton and the rest of the team prove they are willing to work hard and play defense for more than just one game at the tail end of the worst road trip this team has taken in years.

"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott

by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 24, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions

When you throw in a left eye that looks like Anakin Skywalker’s in Revenge of the Sith, he looks like a player who hopefully will realize the power of his dark side.

“Now, release your anger. Only your hatred can destroy opponents.”

"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 4:07 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Thornton looked really pissed in his post game interview

maybe it was because he had to put on a shirt for the interview…?

by cosecant on Mar 24, 2010 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions

haha good one!

by BringBackNolan on Mar 25, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Great Article.

It’s hard to get a guy motivated when he is as skilled as Thorton without benching him completely or relegating him to the lower lines.

McLellan did the right thing in lowering Joe’s ice time as well as line partners.

On a side note, the game against Minnesota was the first time since before the Olympic Break that the Sharks have actually played a full 60 minutes of hockey.

Here’s hoping the boys keep it up and build on what they’ve started.

"Pavelski soaks panties faster than a firehose" - Mr. Plank

by SjSharks23 on Mar 24, 2010 2:23 PM PDT reply actions

Another guess on how it's all going to pan out in the West

Sports Talk Canada – NHL Playoff Prediction for the West

by ilooklikeafat16 on Mar 24, 2010 2:46 PM PDT reply actions

Very Interesting

I think Ivano pointed this out, but he got less ice time than even Malhotra. I think it is safe to say Pavs-Marleau-Manny is the de facto #1 line right now, particularly for draws in the defensive end.

Marleau, man, that guy must be in great condition. Top 10 for forwards in ice time. I think it helps that he is so disciplined with his shifts (he only averages 47 seconds a shift), but he is taking 27 shifts a game in all zones and in all situations. And yet he still looks like he has the best jump of anybody on the team.

by ruben398 on Mar 24, 2010 3:39 PM PDT reply actions

The entire team is really disciplined in that regard— I don’t have the numbers in front of me right now, but I’m pretty sure everyone is in that ideal 45 second range when it comes to shift length.

I still think Thornton should eventually get placed with Heater during the playoffs, but kicking him in the butt for the next game or so is a positive. We need him to channel Angry Joe consistently.

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 4:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions

Also, playing Couture on a non checking line the last few games has done wonders for his confidence, which can only help him down the stretch, too. That pass from behind the net through traffic to Blake at the point was a beat. Tape to tape.

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 24, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions

*beaut

Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 24, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions

It’s crazy what some of these kids can do with some real ice time

(Still pissed with McGinn’s ice time)

"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda

by Evilducks on Mar 24, 2010 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions

On a slightly related note

I caught the post game on the radio last night on my way to SBUL. A few items of note from Jamie Baker:

In his observations and interactions with players in the locker room, Jamie noted that he felt the team was frustrated and disappointed, but they weren’t taking it out on each other. In his opinion and his words, there were no locker room issues. The guys were being very cool, calm, collected and professional about the losing streak and it’s end.

There has been some speculation that there was a locker room issue, but Jamie appears to disagree.

Someone noted either in the gameday thread or the post game thread that Dan Boyle played a fairly conservative game. Jamie agreed. He felt Blake was more deserving of the star, having a 3 assist +3 night, but the MIN crew gave it to Boyle because he’s a bigger star. Getting value out of Blake and allowing Boyle to take a step back and play his game was key.

How do these two points relate back to Joe? Jamie assessed that the Sharks overall, took a step back and simplified their game. Playing a bit more PK and a bit less ES hockey might help Joe to simplify.

Joe’s detractors say many things (and I’ve probably said a combination of them at some point): Joe plays soft, he doesn’t try hard enough, he makes too many soft plays, he doesn’t shoot, he doesn’t go to the difficult areas, he has an ugly beard, he likes Twilight, and he drinks merlot.

PK time is all about playing hard minutes and playing them hard. It’s not about trying to make the pretty play, it’s about doing the ugly job, and it’s about playing a bit angry. We all want Angry!Joe, because Angry!Joe is literally unstoppable.

I’d look for some more of this type of play in the next few games. If Joe truly does simplify his game, imagine what could follow.

Dany Heatley has established himself as a guy that can score ugly goals in mop up duty. Joe driving to the net, drawing defenders, taking shots that Heater can clean up is exactly what the doctor ordered for this team. While it’s hard to argue with the production of the various line combinations last night, we were playing Minnesota, a non-playoff team. I’ve got to imagine those lines will have a bit more trouble against the playoff field in the west. While spreading the scoring talent out is good, sometimes, you just have to throw your best against theirs and see who is better.

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 24, 2010 4:38 PM PDT reply actions

I thought Boyle played a more conservative game after he blew a couple of defensive assignments within the first few minutes of the game. I was very happy to see him double check he wasn’t the last guy back before jumping into the play.

by SharksFanTillDeath on Mar 24, 2010 6:12 PM PDT up reply actions

There has been some speculation that there was a locker room issue, but Jamie appears to disagree.

Speculation largely fueled by Mark Purdy, unfortunately. It’s a shame that had to be a topic of conversation. I’m not in the locker room obviously, but when reporters go digging for that without publishing any facts to back up that assertion, it’s hard to take them seriously. Especially considering the track record of said reporter.

I agree about Joe— getting him to play a hard-nosed physical style just isn’t his area of expertise unfortunately. We’ve all seen what Angry Joe can do when he gets rolling, it’s just getting him rolling that’s the issue. Hopefully he taps into that down the stretch here, because when he does, Thornton is one of the most intimidating players in the world.

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions

I get it! I get it already! P-durdy is an idiot and makes shit up. I thought all journalists oozed integrity. I didn’t know!!!

(leaves in shame)

Larry Zoolander: I just thank the Lord she didn't live to see her son as a mermaid.
Derek Zoolander: Mer-man!
[high-pitched cough]
Derek Zoolander: Mer-man!

by Aero72 on Mar 25, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions

You may be overthinking this just a bit....

Even in the Minnesota game he still had nearly 19 min in total TOI. I think it may be more related to the score than sending a message – 3 to 1 late in the game might mean you want as a coach to rest your big minute guys and protect them from being hurt.

The other games were epic blowouts against us and I’d keep him on the bench more for his safety than anything else. Just saying….

by RandomReader on Mar 24, 2010 7:39 PM PDT reply actions

Point taken— at the end of games you’re trying to keep shifts short so you don’t get caught out there, and like you said, you’re protecting your heavy hitters.

That being said, Marleau played 23:49 in total. It would make sense to limit him as well. And even with total TOI taken into account (largely due his PP time where Jumbo played on the first unit with Heater-Marleau), 9th at evens and 3rd on the PK is an outlier when looking at the last six games and season as a whole.

I think there’s some validity here when taking the demotion/shift to third line duties with Mitchell and Clowe, as well as two bad defensive plays that led to goals against Edmonton, into account.

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions

The playing time for all 3 lines was fairly similar, spreading them out spread out the ice time (except for Staubitz! Dear god stop playing him!) since he could roll whatever line was up next.

"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda

by Evilducks on Mar 24, 2010 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Man I wish Mclellan would replace Staubitz with Mclaren already.

by CalFaithful707 on Mar 24, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I won't dispute the Edmonton game at all.

He had significantly less TOI in that game – probably because he stunk up the joint with those defensive gaffes.

But overall he still was about the seasonal average TOI in these games – NHL.com is showing an average TOI for him at about 20:00 min.

by RandomReader on Mar 24, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah, I see that. I guess what I was trying to point out is that a pretty high PK time may indicate McLellan is making a statement to the team to get back to defensive basics. It jumped out as me at least.

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Understood

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if McLellan was sending a bit of a message. But to be honest BigJoe isn’t our best defensive forward.

That may be why Marleau was still out there and Joe wasn’t – as mymclife has pointed out with her “BEAST” photos Patty is our best 2-way player on the team (Pavs notwithstanding). Joe may have gotten more PK time in Minnesota because of the Nichol injury though. It’s hard to say.

I won’t second guess you – you’re more on the pulse of this team than most.

by RandomReader on Mar 24, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Aw.

Why is the spam comment gone? and on a lesser note, where am I going to get a 35 dollar fashion handbag?

"I think people were ready to watch some hockey. We took up enough of everyone’s time."
-Jody Shelley after 87 seconds of hockey fighting against Cam Janssen

by idunno723 on Mar 24, 2010 9:53 PM PDT reply actions

Mission Street, SF

Between 20th and 16th. Goochi handbags are a steal I’m told….

by RandomReader on Mar 24, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions

I think the real question is why you are in the market for a fashion handbag.

by Mr. Plank on Mar 24, 2010 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions

I... um...

It’s for a friend.

"I think people were ready to watch some hockey. We took up enough of everyone’s time."
-Jody Shelley after 87 seconds of hockey fighting against Cam Janssen

by idunno723 on Mar 24, 2010 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions