My First Offseason Rosterbation
by jMoneyBrah on May 28, 2010 12:27 AM PDT
Email
PrintSo I know it's a little early to start with the rosterbation but, I can't help it. Below is my first thoughts on what the Sharks could do for next year:
What you are probably asking yourself is where is Nabakov and Setoguchi? Rob Blake? Before I get into the players that are not on the roster above let me make my case for the players I think we must resign. Follow me past the jump.
Returning Players
- Patrick Marleau
The career Shark and top goal scorer is one of the premiere players in the league. Mabye he flew under the radar over the last few years (from a nation media standpoint) but after a career year and the fact that he was almost the only player that could score against the Blackhawks in these playoffs; Patrick Marleau is a top priority to re-sign. It seems that he is willing to take some sort of home discount to stay a Shark, but with him and Ilya Kovalchuc k as the top scoring UFAs this year there will be teams throwing a lot of money at Patty to try to lure him away. I think the Sharks can secure his services with an 9 year - $50m front loaded contract. It is worth noting that this would be a pay cut from Patty's current salary, but the fact that this contract would most likely carry him to his retirement may make this attractive for him. Plus his wife doesn't have to move :P
- Joe Pavelski
After the sensational first two playoff rounds that the Big Pavelski put together along with his back to back 25 goal and 50+ point regular season performances, it is pretty clear that Pavelski is a stud. He probably could be a very good 1st line center for somebody, and there will be takers - but he is an amazing 2nd line center who I believe can continue to progress his game. I think a 5 year $20 and change contract may be just in order.
- Manny Malholtra
He skates, he hits, he passes, he shoots, he wins faceoffs. Other than faceoffs he is not awesome at any one facet of the game, but his very solid all around. He can play any position on the 2nd or 3rd line well, and could do a serviceable job on the top line in a pinch. Dude took near the league minimum to play for Sharks this last year - and play he did. I love having this guy on the team and feel that a 2-3 year deal at $1.8m per is a nice number for him and a nice number for us.
- Scott Nichol
The best forth line center we have had in recent years. He is gritty, he is speedy, he wins faceoffs, and he puts it on the line every second of every shift. I think he is getting the right amount now for his role - and a similar 1 year contract keeps him on this team. What the team gets from him at his contract price is extremely valuable.
Key Departures
Let me start by saying that I am, for the time being, assuming that Rob Blake is going to retire. If he doesn't retire I would still welcome him on the team, I would say that $1.75m is what I would pay for a guaranteed hooking penalty and some quality veteran leadership . If Blake did take a much reduced salary you could trade Huskins off to make room for him.
- Evgeni Nabokov
No doubt, Evgeni Nabokov is a very good goalie. But with the current cap situation the Sharks have and the free agent goalie the way it is I don't see Nabby in teal next year. If Cristobal Huet can get the crazy money he got Nabby is in for a major payday. Thomas Griess was relatively untested this year - but did well during his starts. We also have this guy Alex "so fast he can smell your farts before you lay them" Stalock who also did pretty well in the AHL this last year. On top of that the Sharks paid $1+ million for a 6'5" Swede, Henrik Karlsson, to marinate in the Swedish Leagues. With three of the four Conference Final Teams using rookie goaltenders I have to believe that the Sharks can find a solid netminder in one of these guys.
-
Devin Setoguchi
This is where the salary cap really blows. Setoguchi has shown that he can be a quick and elusive sniper with good physicality when he is on his game. When he is on his game. Inconsistency was an issue with his game this season, though he did have some injuries early in the season that seemed to knock him off his rhythm. With 62 goals over his first three seasons, and the fact that he can play a fast and physical game Seto will, IMHO, draw a great deal of attention this offseason. Assuming that the Sharks want to keep Patty Marleau and also have some depth on the 3rd and 4th lines (read actually be able to field a 4th line) there doesn't seem to be enough room to get Seto the money he deserves. I think that Seto could garner around $3m per season contract on the open market. If the Sharks tendered a $3m per year offer sheet to Seto and another team matched their offer the Sharks would receive 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks in compensation. The Sharks could use these picks as is, package a deal to move up in the draft and get a player they really want, or use them to make one of Doug Wilson's mega hit - or facepalmingly miss trades (let's hope it's a mega hit). Lacking first round picks in the last two drafts and with a depleted farm system I would say that some extra draft picks are just what this team could use. -
Jed Ortmeyer & Brad Staubitz
I personally like the gritty, blue collar game that Ortmeyer brings to the table - but I think that we have some youngsters (McLaren, and Ferriero come to mind) that I think could bring the same if not more of what Jed adds to the Sharks. As far as Staubitz goes - hey I like the facial redecoration that he gave Jordin Tootoo as much as the next guy - but I think that the Sharks can find some grit that can also do something with the puck and not draw stupid penalties every time his skates touch frozen water.
Key Additions
- Dan Hamhuis
Sound defensively and can log some big minutes. Good first pass, and he is coming into the prime years of his career. Maybe not the big name Dman that would be ideal, but he would be a solid addition to our defensive end. I think he could either play with either Marc-Edouard Vlasic or on the top line with Dan Boyle. I personally like him on the Pickles line, keeping Murray and Boyle together for another year as they seem to have a nice chemistry together. Putting Hamhuis on the Pickles line should allow that line to log bigger minutes than they did this season - with Blake doing a "DW draws a downward slope with his hand" whenever he plays over 20mins. This would mean more rest for Boyler, a nice thing since he did not seem to skate the puck up nearly as quickly or with as much agility in the latter half of the season. If Demers can continue to grow his defensive game, and Kent Huskins continues to be quietly solid, the third D pairing could add some more offensive pop. I think the true wild card will be if Derek Joslin, Mike Moore, or Nick Petrecki have a great training camp and preseason will they make the team.
Alternatives: Zbynek Michalek, Dennis Seidenburg.
- Matthew Lombardi
Lombardi plays a fast game and has played center and on the wing. His speed may be comparable to Seto's and he has shown a bit of a scoring touch. A solid passer, I think he would work well with Pavelski and Clowe to round out our second line. Also age 28 he is entering into the prime of his career. I think 3-4 years at 2.4 per would be a solid contract for both parties. With Lombardi we would do a lot to soften the loss of Setoguchi at a reasonable price.
Alternatives: Raffi Torres, Lee Stempniak
"Jmoney end this shit already..."
Those are my thoughts as of this moment in time. Probably I will get nothing right and DW has some sort of blockbuster deal up his sleeve to get the top pick in the draft with out giving up a starter, a draft pick, or a great lasagna recipe. I would love to hear your feedback, and feel free to rip my insane ramblings a new one. Peace.
This item was created by a member of this blog's community and is not necessarily endorsed by Fear The Fin.
182 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I like it
but im a little unclear on what happens with restricted free agents, such as setogutchi, when we dont resign them. Can we trade them for a draft pick? (I believe thats what happened to phil kessel last off season) Or if we dont resign him by a certain date he becomes a UFA? Someone fill me in on that, but other than that i Like the additions and I totally agree with you on the nabby situation.
You can trade him before tendering an offer sheet like boston did with Kessel last year
or tender an offer sheet, if another team offers more to the player your team will receive picks as compensation. The number and placement of picks receive are based on the amount offered to the player by the original team, i believe it breaks down like this:
Offer sheet :: Compensation
$660,000 or below :: None
$660,000 – $1mil :: 3rd rounder
$1 mil – $ 2 mil :: 2nd rounder
$2 mil – $ 3 mil :: 1st & 3rd rounder
$3 mil – $ 4 mil :: 1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder
$4 mil – $ 5 mil :: 2-1st, 2nd, & 3rd rounder
$5 mil :: 4-1st rounders
This is the sole reason I think this season will be a positive for the sharks
If we dont resign Pavs and Seto, we’ll recoup all those draft picks we give away so easily.
Whilst I dont want to be in that boat, losing two of our more talented, younger stars, I think Pavs has shown he is easily worth 4+ to the right team, and Seto is easily worth 3.5+. Maybe even more if GM fever is anything like it has been the last few years.
That taken into account, we’d have 3 1st rounders, 2 2nd rounders and 2 3rd rounders to play with.
The hardest part? Having to watch Pavs play somewhere like Dallas or Anaheim. No thanks!
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
This is outdated
$994,433 or below – No Compensation
$994,434 – $1,506,717 – 2010 3rd round pick
$1506,718 – $3,013,433 – 2010 2nd round pick
$3,013,433 – $4,520,150 – 2010 1st round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$4,520,151 – $6,026,867 – 2010 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$6,026,868 – $7,533,584 – 2010 1st round pick, 2011 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
Over $7,533,584 – 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 1st round picks.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Thanks for the updated numbers
by jMoneyBrah on May 31, 2010 2:21 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
You have to usually offer an RFA a qualifying offer in order to retain their rights
It usually consists of a small raise over their current salary. If any other team wishes to sign him though, they would have to give up their own picks in next year’s draft based on how much they offered him.
I personally don’t like losing Setoguchi. I would much rather trade Clowe, and promote McGinn to the 2nd line. A lack of speed is what killed us against the Hawks, and the difference between Seto and Lombardi is easily worth $600k. Furthermore there is no way that Hamhuis signs for less than $3 M. In fact I think his salary will be closer to $4 M. I also think that Stalock needs another year in the AHL. He is quite good, but goalies need time to develop and despite his high number of wins, his save percentage was sub par last year. I’d prefer to sign Dan Ellis and Dan Hamhuis, trade Clowe and Murray, bring up Moore as a replacement for Murray and run a 3rd line of McLaren/Malhotra-Couture-Ferriero/Mitchell, and a 4th line of McLaren/Malhotra-Nichol-Mitchell/Ferriero, with the player depending on situation and performance.
Not a bad scenario
Here are the lines and cap numbers on that:
While I agree that the Blackhawks exposed our lack of speed. I do, however, expect the Hawks to look quite a bit different next season. I suspect that they will not have the depth that they currently have, by a long shot.
I would hate to see Murray and Clowe go, as they are favorites of mine, but I can find no critical flaw with your ideas – other than our D gets even less experienced.
On a side note – the difference between Seto and Lombardi would likely be $800K – $1mil and at least a 1st round draft pick – probably with a 3rd round as well – coming our way.
Raffi Torres on the 3rd line at $2.5 million?? Why would we (any team) offer him that much? Given Torres’ durability issues, he’d be lucky to get $1.5 million.
I don’t think Mike Moore is ready for the NHL, let alone a top 4 d-man. While I’m fine with the idea of trading Murray, I don’t like that we would have a defenseman being paid $1.7 million to play on the 3rd pairing.
I expect Dan Ellis’ cap hit to be north of $2 million.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on May 28, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
Murray has gotten better each year and continues to be one of the toughest hitters in the league. He is extremely physical and fast enough to keep up with most teams. There is no reason to get rid of him. He is by far one of our best and most consistent defensemen.
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
Murray regressed a bit the second half of the season
He’s also 30. He’s a fan favorite for good reason, and he’s a very good defenseman, but he’s also not irreplaceable. He’s still prone to very costly bad reads on occasion. I suspect we’re keeping him, but I wouldn’t be surprised to hear his name floated come trade time for a young D-man or some picks.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Who didn't regres a bit the second half of the season?
lol. Maybe not Clowe, but only cuz he had thoroughly gotten it outta his system in the first half of the season.
I dunno if they would trade away a guy that they had officially recognized as their “most improved player” earlier this season.
Disagree about Murray’s speed. He’s gotten much better at his positioning, but he got exposed by a fast Chicago team. When he’s on, he’s definitely worth $2.5 mill, but when he regresses, he’s too costly to be on the 3rd pairing.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting...
But let me counter with this:
2008-2009 Season: 251 goals
2009-2010 Season: 257 goals
That’s one pair of numbers that makes you have to think.
I’m still thinking that our offensive line needs much more on the net-work side. We got trolloped because our D-men stayed behind the blue line too often in that last series.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Also, with Greiss only having 17 starts last year, I’m not sure we’re ready to risk that, regardless of his GAA / S%. I’m very interested in seeing Karlsson, though. Almost no one talks about this guy, and at 6’-4", he sure could shut down the 3-4-5 holes no problem.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Don't disrespect Karlsson! He's 6'6"
While Toronto got a “Monster” in Gustavsson… Karlsson is quite a big larger. And from the “scouting” I did on him after learning we signed him, it seems that unlike Gustavsson, Karlsson actually moves to stop the puck.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Re-read my post…I’m anything BUT disrespecting Karlsson…I want to see him play :-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
by Noctro on May 30, 2010 7:35 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I have a good feeling we're going to see Setoguchi in a Sharks uniform next year
Everyone has a right to be stupid. I just abuse the privilege.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
I wouldn’t mind this at all. Letting Nabokov walk was my solution on Battle of Cali as well, and I think it makes the most sense. Unless he’ll take a huge pay-cut, of course. Good work,
They call me Patrick Marleau, P.I.
Battle of California
I wouldn't mind this.
In my dream scenario, I want there to be a way for Seto to stay (mainly so my Seto jersey does not become outdated), but I would be okay with Lombardi replacing him. Hamhuis, Michalek, or even Seidenberg (As you mentioned) would be upgrades on the back end.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on May 28, 2010 3:43 PM PDT reply actions
Bring on Z. Michalek AND keep Marleau! DO IT! :-P
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 12:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Thank Stalock!
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
Get Jumbo to waive his NTC
and trade him to Edmonton for the #1 draft pick!
"Marleau spanks one off the pipe!" --VS Commentator, game 5 vs Det. 20100508
"Nice Save!" --Nabby, to Blake
Some guy from SJ Mercury News
Is calling for keeping Nabby and letting Patty go. What is he thinking?
"Marleau spanks one off the pipe!" --VS Commentator, game 5 vs Det. 20100508
"Nice Save!" --Nabby, to Blake
I think
I think that keeping Nabokov is a move your going to make to play it safe. We have a lot of potential in the system but none of it NHL proven and there is no guarantee that DW is going to add another Goaltender in the off season while we have a good number of players who could fill out or top 6.
I don’t personally buy into that logic but I can understand the argument even if I don’t agree with it.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
I am not so sure that we have
Any players that could fill out the top six. Maybe McGinn or Couture could play on the second line. I personally think at this point in thier careers that would be a downgrade. But what is really apparent is that we have nobody in the system that projects to the top line.
Now that it looks like the cap I’d going to raise around 2 mil I think we can keep Seto. Also looking at his numbers for the season I think we just might be able to get him at under 3 mil. If we can get pavs at 4 mil, patty at 5.5 mil and Seto at just under 3 mil that should leave us enough room to get that shutdown Dman we really need. Especially if we don’t pickup a free agent goalie.
This team still needs some high picks though.
by jMoneyBrah on May 29, 2010 11:56 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Lemme guess, Mark Purdy? Don’t worry, he said “Trade Patty!” last year. He’s a dick.
It's not that I don't enjoy our nights together." -Drew on rooming with Randy
Mark Purdy doesn't know shit
About our “beloved Los Tibrones”. His insistence on using that line in every one of his Sharks stories is proof enough for me.
by jMoneyBrah on May 31, 2010 2:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'd keep Nabby over Marleau
But I’m in the minority.
I don’t mind Nabby being asked to take a paycut. We just can’t afford to put $5M in net. But we also can’t afford Patty for more than about $3.5M. $4M is reasonable, but I think we’d be better off splitting Patty’s current cap hit among two younger players, or Patty and another guy. He’s a great player, but he’s not $6M good. I don’t consider him a higher priority than Pavs or goaltending or a Top 3 D-man.
I think Nabby had more to do with us being where we were this year, and I think Patty’s numbers the past few seasons have more to do with Joe Thornton than Patty being a $6M man. I love Patty and would hate to see him go, but if he wants a dime over $4M, I say see ya. Same with Nabby. I love Nabby, and really want to keep him, but if he wants more than $3M, AND wants to dictate his own starts again, the team can’t afford him.
It does bear mentioning that having finally been allowed to dictate his schedule and be the man, we did get past round 2. But as Chicago is showing, put elite defensemen on the ice and even a Thomas Greiss like goaltender can look good.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
No surprise here...
I pretty much agree with you, and here’s why: If there is anything that the first CHI-PHI game proved, it’s how ineffective our offense was, and how EFFECTIVE our defense IS. None of our Chicago games broke 2 points on our offensive side, and yet Philly sailed a steady 6 points past Niemi in game 1 on Saturday.
On the “defensive” hand, those “dirt-cheap goalies” everyone is rosterbating about both let more shots by than Nabby did in ANY of our Chicago games (even if you mistakingly include the empty net score in game 4).
I’ve said it in other posts, and I’ll say it again: it takes goals to win. If PHI was able to get more goals in one game by Niemi than we did over an ENTIRE SERIES, that is not a Goaltender issue. You’re looking at the wrong side of the ice.
It’s easy to forget amidst the depression and anger over the sudden halt to our post-season high that Nabby is also the only consistent thing that has been there when we make it to the playoffs, not to mention the fact that he has that uncanny ability to not let one bad game screw up his series. It’s far easier to lay blame upon him, be it deserved or not.
(I posted a more, um, terse version of this in response to the Merc article, which obviously doesn’t apply to the crowd here ;-)).
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
by Noctro on May 30, 2010 8:04 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think the number of goals Chicago allowed had more to do with poor defensive play by Chicago than it did strong offensive play by Philly. We’ll see what happens in the next few games though i guess.
I dunno how consistent Nabby was though. He did let in a few softies that cost us a couple games. When your that deep in the playoffs you can’t afford for your goaltender to let in multiple soft goals, and you probably need them to steal at least one game for the team.
Count me in the minority. Agreeing with you two about Nabokov. I would also take Patrick Sharp over Marleau if we could get him.
by ToddMclellan'shair on May 31, 2010 4:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the Sharks should take a run at trading for Patrick Sharp.
The Hawks are going to HAVE to trade someone this offseason…and as awesome as Sharp is, he’s also their most tradable asset. He still has two years left on a contract with a 3.9million cap hit…which for someone of his talent, is absurdly low. He can play offense on the top line…he’s a good two way forward, and can play on the PK. Unfortunately, he probably takes both a 1st, and a young, cheap, good forward to get done. Someone along the lines of Jamie McGinn or Benn Ferriero.
For my rosterbation, I traded them McGinn…because he was the one I wanted to lose the least, and therefore would probably be the one requested to get someone of Sharp’s calibur. Also, I let Nabby and Marleau walk. Sharp, in my scenario, is a cap saving replacement for Marleau. We are then able to use cap space to get a top pairing shutdown defenseman. I plugged in Z. Michalek at 4 million, but really that could be Hamhuis too…I just think 4 mil is a rough esitmate of what it would take.
Finally, I signed Dan Ellis at 2.5 to split starts with Greiss. I also bumped the salary cap up 2 million (since that’s the current news on the street. If it stays the same, then you just don’t sign Ellis, and roll the dice with Stalock in his place.
Anyways, I came up with this…
Adjust the lines as you will…but I’d say that’s a similarly competitive offensive roster, with a much better defense and a downgrade at goalie (although, in our system, it might not matter all that much…being as Nabby hasn’t been outplaying his backups, really).
Sharp is a tough get, and losing a first again would be a price to pay (as would trading McGinn). But, we’d have Sharp for two years. And him replacing Marleau would give us the cap space to upgrade the defense without sacrificing on the offensive end, IMO.
I just think DW is going to have to get creative this offseason. Marleau is going to get 7 million somewhere, and probably walk. Pavs and Seto are going to take some real coin to sign. Malhotra, if we want to keep him, would have to get a real bump in salary. Even with the cap possibly going up 2 million, to make this roster better, and still a Cup contender, DW will have to make some moves.
I dunno, its just a thought. No one knows if the Hawks will even be open to trading away Sharp, or if giving up a first and McGinn is worth it for the Sharks in the long run for another couple Cup shots this next year and maybe the following. Just a thought I had, and figured I’d run it through the Cap calculator and see what I could make work.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
I'm still not sold on Dan Ellis as the solution
I really think that we let the kids battle it out, have a legit competition at the goalie position, and let the cream rise to the top. We have an Olympic tender, and two quality prospects at the position. Let them battle out during the season, and by the end of it all we will have an idea of what we have. Should they all fall flat on their face we can always pick up a goalie at the trade deadline when their cap hit will make a much smaller impact.
Also I love Sharp and would love to have him on the team, but I would prefer Marleau as he is still a better player. I think we can get him at around $5.5 per if we give him a front loaded contract that carries him to retirement. Something like 7, 7, 7, 6.5, 5.5, 5, 3, 3 could get the job done.
Also I don’t want to trade the few potential impact players we do have coming up from the minors. And I definitely WOULD NOT PART WITH OUR ONLY FIRST ROUND PICK IN THE LAST THREE YEARS!!!! As much as we need to get the team ready for next year – the only team that handled us this year was the Hawks and they are going to be a weaker team next year. I say keep all of our picks, and if we can make a move to pickup another first round pick at the expense of Clowe or Seto I think we might explore that.
Yeah i’ve got the same line of thinking as you do.
Let Greiss, Stalock, and Karlsson fight it out for the goaltender position. I can’t image not being able to find a solid NHL goaltender among all 3 of those guys. I’m sure any of those guys, Greiss especially, are good enough to get us to the playoffs. The question is whether any of those guys are good enough to take us to a Stanley Cup, and i’m sure we’ll know that sometime before the trade deadline, and then we can make changes accordingly if necessary.
Also like you said, the Hawks won’t be the same team they were this year. So even if our team is pretty much the same as it was last year, I still think we’d have a good shot at winning it all; although i think we do have the opportunity to make improvements.
Ok at this point i don’t even know why i’m posting since i’m just retyping everything you’ve said, but fuck it lol. If we do lose Seto or Clowe it wouldn’t be so bad since we’d get back some picks and free up a lot of cap space.
Oh one thing i'd do different
I REALLY like Volchenkov, and I think we can afford him if you swap Hamhuis for Volchenkov and then trade huskins for picks. I’m sure Joslin could fill in Huskins’ rather average sized shoes.
I mean how much do you think Volchenkov would go for? I think 4 to 4.5 million should definitely be enough imo. Although we’d have enough to pay him 5 if necessary, but i’m sure DW can work his magic.
Our defensive lines could then be:
Boyle/Volchenkov
Vlasic/Murray
Joslin/Demers
We’d actually have some extra cap space to play with too.
Maybe DW can do with Volchenkov what he did with Manny. Entice him with a cup conteding team and try to sign him for 1 year on a discount to test him out, with the promise that if he performs and he likes it in San Jose (how could he not love the Bay Area! lol), he’d get one of those big 10 year frontloaded contracts.
The Caps are going to be in on Volchenkov…and will pay him…and are a contender. No way he signs for little here just to “be on a contender.”
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Alright, so maybe we can’t do the 1 year tryout thing but we can afford to offer him 4 to 5 mill if necessary. Can the Caps afford that? Don’t they have some upcoming UFA’s and RFA’s that they have to pay this year or the next?
The Caps have plenty of cap space…and very few holes. They already signed Backstrom, and probably will still have around 10 million in space left for additions…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Two things on a Marleau contract…
1. Sleek brought this up on BoC…but does the Sharks ownership have the cash, or the will, for that matter, to spend over the cap? If Marleau has a 5.5 million cap hit, and a 7 million dollar salary, and the Sharks still have a roster up to the Cap…their actual expenditures on salaries will be even higher than they have been. Can the ownership afford that? I don’t know.
2. Why would Marleau accept less to stay with us? What has this organization done to make him feel at home here? Strip him of the C? Blame last postseason on him because of it? What’s to stop him from accepting a 7 million a year for 5 years deal from someone else?
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I also don’t trust going into the season with only Greiss and Stalock in net. Stalock, I really believe needs another full year to hone his game in the AHL. And Greiss got, what, 10 starts this year? And you want to hand him the reins? I put Ellis in there because I like him…but if not him, we’ll still need SOMEONE most likely.
Don’t fall in love with just throwing kids in there because Niemi went to the finals…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m pretty confident that Greiss is good enough to be a solid regular season NHL goaltender. I’m just worried about the number of starts he can take before it starts to affect his play, and whether he is good enough to ride into the playoffs.
Maybe i’m taking our ability to make the playoffs for granted, but i think our young guys are good enough that we can afford to try them out during the regular season. If they don’t work out we can always trade for someone before the deadline.
We won’t be able to trade for a goalie if we spend up to the cap based on starting Greiss and Stalock. I just really worry about relying on two rookies (Greiss is essentially a rookie). I"d feel much more secure with a veteren who can be solid, and can sit the bench if Greiss decides he’s awesome.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha, poor msclowie…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate the never ending "Lets trade Clowe" rumours....>.>
Its a bad idea. Period. End of story.
This is Team Teal. Sharks and Phins.
Cut me open and I bleed Teal...
Just a reminder, fans, comin’ up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dolphins won a Super Bowl. -Mosul_DolFan, Phinsider.com
Marc Emery ... the Big Bad Bogeyman ... who offered natural seeds that could potentially become a non-toxic, non-addictive, highly beneficial 12,000-year-old plant. Where are the victims? Where are the bodies? "Justice Minister" Rob Nicholson and his ilk should be the criminals imprisoned.
by Sharkz_N_Phinz on May 30, 2010 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand the rationale for trading Clowe
But it’s a big fat reset button IMO. The reason we don’t have to be in full on panic mode even if the team could conceivably lose Patty and, Nabby this coming season is that we have a whole LINE ready to step up in Pavs, Clowe and Seto, PLUS the kids, McGinn, Couture, Ferrerio, and McLaren (all of whom were declared “ready to go”).
While Patrick Marleaus and Joe Thorntons don’t grow on trees, they are reaching the other side of 30. The kids are kids, and we could lock them up long term. That’s a big plus.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on May 31, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Id like to flag that post....
for awesomeness.
This is Team Teal. Sharks and Phins.
Cut me open and I bleed Teal...
Just a reminder, fans, comin’ up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dolphins won a Super Bowl. -Mosul_DolFan, Phinsider.com
Marc Emery ... the Big Bad Bogeyman ... who offered natural seeds that could potentially become a non-toxic, non-addictive, highly beneficial 12,000-year-old plant. Where are the victims? Where are the bodies? "Justice Minister" Rob Nicholson and his ilk should be the criminals imprisoned.
by Sharkz_N_Phinz on Jun 3, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions
hahahha yep woe is me...my poor guy.
SHUSH i’m in hiding until Clowie does get moved and things blow over a bit LOL
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jun 3, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions
Nah. Let the kids figure it out. The o e thing we haven’t had in SJ is a legit goalie competition in forever. We finally got a few prospects including the best Swede: if we don’t test the waters we will never know what we have. I let the kids gun it out for the top goalie spot on a WCF team and see if one of them win the job outright.
by jMoneyBrah on May 30, 2010 12:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah i’m worried about number 2. I could see Marleau looking at the Kings and seeing a chance for a fresh start, a better paycheck, and a team that has a lot of potential for success in the future.
I think though, if they offer him one of those crazy long frontloaded contracts, he’d have a workable cap hit but he wouldn’t be taking a hometown discount really. I think his wife being from San Jose, relationships with teammates like Jumbo, and the opportunity to be the first lifelong shark are factors that could make him want to stay in San Jose.
Plus, MARLEAU’S A NICE BOY, HE WOULDN’T LEAVE US!
I agree I think what is going to keep him in SJ is going to be a Hossa like front loaded deal that will have him retire a Shark. Going to be an interesting summer for sure.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
If the ownership group can afford to pay him that much early in his contract.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The Sharks have spent to the cap the last 2 seasons after making the conference finals I’d be shocked to see them pull the plug since they didn’t after going out round one. That said money is always an issue. Don’t take this as me being a smart ass but I’m going to ask since I frankly don’t know. Did the Sharks lose money this year?
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
The sharks sell out almost every game
With a stadium full of Jerseys. They have plenty of top notch sponsorship. And just pulled in several extra millions in this years playoffs. SJ is no longer the small market team that they have been perceived to be throughout their time in the league. I would think the ownership would recognize the upcoming years as a chance to 1. Get a gaddam Cup and 2. Through continued success, build the Sharks brand at the local, regional, and national level. A few extra millions early on in Patty’s contract should be easy to part with considering the savings on the backend and when weighed against the two goals listed above.
by jMoneyBrah on May 31, 2010 2:36 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm in full on bitter disappointment mode
So I’m not feeling particularly charitable towards Patty either.
Marleau has no reason to accept less to stay here, but, honestly, I don’t see that many teams being able to throw big bucks at him either. And no other media market will be as kind to him as San Jose. Very few other teams are going to be able to surround him with the likes of Joe Thornton and Dany Heatley.
If Patty knows what’s good for him, he’ll stay here, and for a discount. He’s not done much to prove he’s a difference maker on his own. His numbers can be disputed as much as either playing on Joe Thornton’s wing, or playing away from the D-pairing marking Joe.
I prefer to have a player of his talents in teal, but your cap-saving plan of Patrick Sharp, or even a Frolov like guy would suit my needs just as well.
I’ll point out, none of the back six posted so far look all that impressive to me. Sacrificing a Patrick Marleau and an Evgeni Nabokov for an Anton Volchenkov and Dan Hamhuis are fine by me.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I have a feeling DW is gonna go after T. Kaberle. Not sure if I agree with it but I think he will try.
I’d be up for being less forward heavy and getting two new D. Like a Kaberle and Hamuis.
by skilletboy on May 29, 2010 8:25 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
As long as Kaberle comes with a Defensive minded D man signing like Hamhuis, like you indicated, I’d be ok with it.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Sign me up please!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Clowe would have to go back…and probably a younger prospect. Kaberle might be redundant with Boyle AND Demers, though.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 29, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Demers doesn't make anyone redundant yet
Kaberle would be making Demers redundant. Demers still clearly needs some time to complete his game, which is only natural considering his age.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Poor Demers
All not being able to make someone redundant yet :P
by jMoneyBrah on May 31, 2010 2:39 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I don’t think Kaberle is what we need at all. He’s got a big cap hit and he wouldn’t be much of an improvement in the defensive department, which is what we should be working towards; especially if were gonna try to ride Stalock, Greiss, or Karlsson to a cup.
Here is why I might be ok with Kaberle. He is under contract only for next year. If he doesn’t work out we cut ties. With Jumbo under contract for only one more year it could end up being the right term. Jumbo and his contract/NTC could limit DW’s move this year.
If Demers isnt ready one year of Kaberle could be great.
But giving up a long-term-signed Clowe for one year of Kaberle isn’t a great idea though too.
And yes I’d like Kaberle only if we got a Hamhuis or Regher or Sidenberg.
by skilletboy on May 29, 2010 11:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I think his contract is why i wouldn’t want him. He’d cost us a 1st round pick + someone/something else for a player that, we aren’t really in need of, who would probably be gone the next year. We’d just be throwing away a 1st round pick imo.
I wouldn’t trade a 1st either. Not for one year of Kaberle. I’d still try ANC work so
ething out. The biggest issue miight be dealing with Burke. He isn’t getting fleeced by DW.
by skilletboy on May 30, 2010 1:59 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn’t trade a 1st either. Not for one year of Kaberle. I’d still try and work something out. The biggest issue miight be dealing with Burke. He isn’t getting fleeced by DW.
by skilletboy on May 30, 2010 2:00 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
YES PLEASE!
Trade Clowe and maybe Ferriero for Kaberle…sign Hamhuis, sign Price/Ellis instead of Nabby, and we got ourselves a good dam back-end
Boyle/Hamhuis
Kaberle/Vlasic
Murray/Huskins/Demers
Ellis/Price-Greiss.
YES!
Go Sharks!
I agree with letting Seto walk
Second line guys are difficult to price out. I’m picturing Setoguchi winding up his career in 10 years with numbers like Ray Whitney or Jeff Friesen. Two guys that always gave glimpses that they could become elite forwards but just never really did. But I guess that is the purpose of the second line — they are good, but not quite good enough to crack the top 90 forwards in the league. (30 teams = 90 first line forwards)
Setoguchi brings good emotion, and I love seeing him dash across the ice and slam someone into the glass, but to me he is not worth a big raise. Pavelski seems like an eventual top line forward some day. Setoguchi and Clowe don’t show as much upside, and look like permanent second like players, until they finish their careers on the checking line. Clowe already seems costly for what he contributes to the team, why compound that frustration by paying Seto almost as much?
Every team has an overpaid second line guy. Let Seto play that role on someone else’s payroll.
What exactly is a big raise?
Seto’s speed and shot along with his physical play are easily worth $3.5 M on the open market, and his defensive play will get better as he matures like Marleau’s did. Trading him would be a huge mistake. Clowe is the one who should be traded. (He should have been traded over Ehrhoff last year, rumors were that Burke was offering the Leafs’ 1st rounder for Clowe, but that’s a different matter.) As for upside, I actually think he’s the only one with top line upside. Pavelski is too small and slow to ever be a truly effective top line center, and Clowe just isn’t that great; he’s not that great with the puck in tight and doesn’t drive the net as much as one would like, nor can he make up for it with ridiculous vision like Thornton often can. Setoguchi on the other hand, is fast, has an excellent shot, and has a pretty good knack of finding open spots on the ice. He certainly can become as good as Heatley currently is, and there’s no doubt that Heatley is a top line forward. By the way, comparing Ray Whitney to Jeff Friesen is just insulting, letting Whitney walk away was one of the bigger mistakes the Sharks have made. He certainly is a top line winger. The 90th ranked forward in the league in points is Frolov with 51 points in 81 games (0.63 Pt/G). Whitney’s career Pt/G, which is obviously depressed from his peak production years is 0.81 Pt/G. Whitney is still one of the better wingers in the game. If Seto turns into a goal scoring, faster, hitting version of Ray Whitney, you’d have one of the best wingers in the league.
As for defense, we need someone who’s both defensively sound and has decent puck skills to replace Blake. Volchenkov is defensively sound, but his puck skills are severly lacking, on Murray’s level or worse. Paying him more than Hamhuis, who has rather excellent puck skills in comparison would be a huge mistake. (I definitely think some team is going to overpay for Volchenkov next year. He certainly isn’t worth the $5 M he’s rumored to be asking for.) I’d sign Hamhuis, bring up Moore, dump Huskins when trading Clowe, and run a defense of Boyle-Moore, Vlasic-Hamhuis, Demers-Murray, (with Murray and Moore switching spots depending on situations).
Other stuff which I will believe will help. Purpose stick Vlasic with a guy with no puck skills like Murray during the regular season. Sometimes I feel as if Vlasic was too insistent on letting Blake handle the puck, even when it seemed like he was doing it better. Without a defenseman having “seniority” over him on his pairing, he might feel more comfortable moving the puck. (When he was paired with Demers when Blake went down, he seemed to be much more keen on moving the puck despite Demers’ obvious skills at that.)
Other possibilities include a dman earning a spot in camp. Both Braun and Schaus managed to force themselves into an AHL playoff lineup with no experience and did decently too. It’s certainly possible that with some time in the offseason to work on their game they’d make the big club. Schaus is supposed to be relatively physical, if he really surprises, he might earn a spot next to Vlasic.
Good, but here is mine
Top line
Heatley-Thornton-Marleau(signed at 5.5 million a year)
Clowe-Pavs(4 mill like you said)-Setoguchi(injuries hurt him, sign him for 3 million a year)
Couture-McGinn-Ponikarovsky?
Boyle-Murray
Vlasic-Leopold?
Huskins-Demers
Stalock
Greiss
Karlsson
Ridiculous, maybe, but still
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on May 30, 2010 10:28 AM PDT reply actions
As a goalie option
Might I suggest 26-yr old Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers?
This last season he posted a 3.15gaa & .902% while backstopping the worst team in the League. He’s an RFA set to make $0.6m for 2010-11. The money saved on goaltending can be used to bolster the D.. Oh, and JDD is 6’4" so he can just look over the top of screens. ; )
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on May 30, 2010 3:07 PM PDT reply actions
I liked what I saw of Deslauriers when the Sharks played the Oilers.
I think he could actually do well behind our defense (if we are able to get an upgrade on D, of course.)
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on May 30, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I actually really like Deslauriers. Behind a competant team, I think he could be really, really solid.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 30, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I wasn't too impressed by what I saw of him, but I could be wrong.
However, my main concern is that he may not be the “veteran” who shares the lead with Griess/Stalock/Karlsson/etc.
Saving money on goaltending is good, but at the same time I’d be much more confident in a more “tested” goalie even if it costs a bit more. Regardless of the criticism that Nabby has been seeing lately, I think his numbers don’t tell the entire story. His stats aren’t awful, and he may not be much better than his backups stat-wise, but he has a tendency of coming up “big” when necessary.
If we have to replace Nabby, I think it has to be a guy who the Sharks can be that confident in. I’m not sure if Deslauriers is that guy, but he could be I guess. He would probably come cheap, especially given that it’s SJ not Edmonton and that he’d be a starter (at least initially). But, again, I have my doubts.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Great suggestion
I forgot about him. I was also impressed by what I saw from him when the Sharks played the Oilers. I feel like he’s a little untested as well though. Adding him almost seems like were just adding a 4th kid to the goalie competition. We can maybe let Stalock and Karlsson get some more experience (which they probably both need) down in Worcester, and then we can let Greiss and Deslauriers split starts and compete for the starting goaltender position.
Pitton and Perugini will likely tandem in OKC and the Oil are still harnessed by the Bulin Wall’s contract, therefore I imagine they’ll be looking to move JDD or DD. I’ve been following the Oil’s minor league pipeline since ‘06, thanks to the Stockton connection. It’s been a bit of a wreck, to put it nicely. For JDD to persevere as he has makes me think he could be a monster in net behind a talented team.
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on May 31, 2010 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions
The main question is who to give a raise/cut to and how much
Pavelski is well deserved of a raise. And there’s no way DW doesn’t sign him. He’s going to be near $4M as many have said… but for his talent I think it’s well worth it.
And from what I saw, the two “key” guys on this team that are warrant for raises: Malhotra and Nichol. They do what they were signed to do, and they do it well.
The big question is Setoguchi. Yes, he had a 30+ goal season. I think he’s been, unfortunately, compared to Cheechoo. Cheech had a couple of good years, with 56 and 37 goals.. but ultimately it led to an average of $3M per year. Seto hasn’t been nearly as good, but the potential is there. Personally I’d hate to see him go.. but I’m not so certain it’s going to take $3M to resign him.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
I think everyone here on these boards have been underestimating what it will take to sign our two big RFAs. I think Pavs will take at least 4.5. He could easily get more than that on the market. And I think Seto will take north of 3 million. Maybe 3.5. And I think he’s worth every penny at that price. He has a wicked shot, and also some really good speed. I think he’s one that could blossom into something really great…all the tools are there.
Sure, in the perfect world everyone accpets less than market value because they love San Jose so much. I’m just not sold that this will be the case this offseason. And Pavs+Seto = 8 million in salary…well, it kinda throws off everyone’s projections on what to do this offseason.
I also don’t think there’s any way we get Marleau back for less than 6 million, but I seem to be in the minority here. I don’t think he signs for less than he’s already making. But that doesn’t really apply to this post.
I think malhotra will take between 1.5 and 2 million to sign…and I’d love to see him back. Nichol shouldn’t require much more than he was already making. At least IMO. Nichol’s made 750k each of the last 3 seasons now…and isn’t getting any younger.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 30, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Not bad points
$8M is killer for Pavs and Seto. In that case, I’d much rather have Pavs than Seto, even though having them both would be great.
Personally, I can’t stand thinking of Patty playing somewhere else. Also, seeing as he has ties (wife, kids, etc.) to the Bay Area, it doesn’t necessarily eliminate the possibility of a discount. But, even at his current salary, I can’t see why resigning him would be too terrible. He’s probably been the most consistent forward in the playoffs and regular season for the past few years, and losing the captaincy doesn’t seem to have adversely affected him.
I think goaltending is an issue that people are taking a little to lightly. I have confidence in Griess, Stalock, and Karlsson. The question is whether they’re ready right away. And, who do we sign from the FA pool if DW also has similar doubts?
Defensively, I think there are going to have to be multiple signings. Demers isn’t quite ready to be a top 4 d-man. It’ll probably take another season for him to start reaching his potential. I have no problem with most of the potential signings (except for Kaberle, who is too expensive IMHO), but the damned cap ruins everything. Speculation is moot until DW makes final decisions (re-signings and how much, or walk).
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
I think we're all assuming everyone will take discounts to stay
But you’re right. Pavs and Seto could easily be $8M combined. I think Doug Wilson will offer them perhaps a bit of term (at least as much as he offers term) and tries to convince them to stay together more than to stay in San Jose.
Patrick Marleau to the Kings is a scenario that haunts me because I’m sure Dean Lombardi will offer Patty $6M. But as wonderful as Patty is, we just can’t afford that in my opinion. Our backup situation is to tell Patty to wait a year when Joe’s off the books and have the two of them be renegotiated together as well.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Is Lombardi going to go harder after Kovalchuk or Marleau?
I’ve heard reports saying they will go for one and not the other and vice versa.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on May 30, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm convinced
Kovalchuk is going to Russia. So, I’m betting Patty is the more likely candidate for Purple and Black.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Kovalchuk won’t go to Russia…not yet, anyways…IMO. Marleau could very easily wind up in LA regardless.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 30, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t imagine us not being able to lock Pavs up with a 4.5 million dollar offer; although i hope that’s not what’s required.
I just don’t think a team would be willing to pay 5+ million and give up their 1st 2nd and 3rd round picks for a guy who has never really put up big numbers; Ryane Clowe’s goal/assist totals have generally been equal to or better than Pavelskis really, and he’s getting 3.6 which we all think is an overpayment.
Seto has a lot of potential, but I can’t see a team offering 4+ million and their 1st/3rd round picks for a guy so wildly inconsistent. I think 3 million is more than fair for Seto. He only got 36 points this season, and that’s almost half the point total he had last season. So despite his awesome potential, there aren’t any blatant signs of him realizing that potential anytime soon, at least not enough that some other team would take such a big risk on him.
Okay, so if we do decide to go after Kovy...
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / * Joe Pavelski ($4.250m) / * Ilya Kovalchuk ($7.250m)
Logan Couture ($1.242m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / * Scott Nichol ($0.750m) / * Steven Zalewski ($0.750m)
- Ryan Vesce ($0.550m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m) - Dan Hamhuis ($3.200m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Jason Demers ($0.543m) / Taylor Doherty ($0.900m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS - Carey Price ($2.250m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$58.8m; PAYROLL: $59.886m; CAP ROOM: $0.054m BONUSES: $1.140m
That third D pairing is a bit suspect
And I’d drop Vesce for McLaren. Otherwise it’s intriguing.
I’ll confess some ignorance. Who is Taylor Doherty? He obviously saves us $8K over Kent Huskins, but it’s clear that Jason Demers still needs some work, so, is he someone we can trust Demers with?
Scotty Nichol is tough as nails, and Benn Ferriero is a bit smallish. I know Zalewski had a good year in Worcester, but what’s his size?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Pretty sure Doherty is still in juniors.
He’s also 19. There’s plenty of defensemen ahead of him in the system.
I would not want Kovalchuk over Marleau, personally.
As Marleau is a solid two-way player, and what I hear about Kovalchuk is that he is lazy in the defensive zone.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on May 31, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Watching game film of the NJ-PHI series
Kovy is also prone to trying to do it all himself.
I was down on Patty for most of the playoffs because his defensive play was very soft, but he is otherwise one of the best two way players in the league. It’s why he made the Olympic roster. And he was very effective backchecking in Game 4.
Kovalchuk is just not worth his price tag, but who knows what playing next to Joe could do for him.
Still, saying all that, even with the cap going up, I don’t think the team can afford to have 3 guys making more than $7M. And with Dan Boyle making $6.6, that margin drops even lower.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
My thoughts.
I’m not gonna give a lecture on who to sign or what-not, but…
Clowe needs to go → there’s no way he’s playing up to 4M a year
Blake → Either a pay-cut or retires, but his play in the PO is making me unsure about this one
Seto → a bit of a raise, but not worth 3M
Pavs → 4M? Absolutely…
Marleau → 5M a year is worth it imo if he plays like he did in the PO and reg season
Malhotra → I hope he signs for about ~1.6M, but yes, keep him
Nichol → keep him for sure, but maybe around 0.8 M tops
Nabby → Depending on what he asks, 6M – no, pay-cut, maybe…
Murray → not sure what his salary is, but his play around fast teams like chicago and colorado was flat-out atrocious, and he is just too slow. If his salary is >3M, trade him and sign a good D to back-up Boyle on the first pairing…
First goalie w/o Nabby → Greiss is not ready, and neither is Stalock…not sure about Karlsson, but Ellis or Price could be worth within reasonable prices…
1-2 top 4 D’s are needed, and maybe a top-6 forward.
That’s it! :D
Go Sharks!
Forgot 1-2 things
Don’t re-sign Staubitz → dumb penalties, and McLaren is a good replacement
Ortmeyer → as much as I like him, not sure if they can re-sign him…
Huskins → was decent, but if needed should be traded
Wallin → don’t re-sign him…
Go Sharks!
BEHOLD...
This is what I’ve come with, and I’m getting really excited just thinking about it:
Iginla:
I really like Iginla, and the Flames seem to be willing to trade him; more importantly though, he seems to be very willing to waive his NTC to join a cup contending team.
I think he’d be a perfect fit with the Sharks, and a perfect fit on Thorntons line with Heatley. I mean SHIT, just think about that line…It would have the best set up man in the league, the best power forward in the league, and probably the best sniper in the league all on the same forward line. Iginla is a talented, hard working, and physical player. He’s a power forward that actually plays like one, and i think that’s exactly what Jumbos line needs. Iginla can easily fill a Byufglien type role when needed, while also being capable of doing so SOO much more.
Not to mention, Iginla would bring a ton of experience and strong leadership to the team (he’s widely regarded as one of the best leaders in the NHL). Also having Iginla on the team would take a lot of pressure off of Thornton and Marleau and it would even take a lot of pressure off of Iginla as well, since he wouldn’t be a captain who needs to carry his team to a cup anymore. Getting a fresh start, and not being captain anymore might do wonders for Iginla’s play, as it seems to have done for Marleau’s.
Now i don’t know what Iginla’s trade value is exactly, but i would think that a 1st rounder + Ryane Clowe + Ferriero could get the deal done.
Marleau:
I can’t image the Sharks without him. He’s a great player that we need to resign imo. I think a deal identical to Marian Hossa’s is more than fair considering they’re almost identical players; they’re both extremely fast, very good 2-way players who are both good on the PP and PK, and they can both score. They both put put up pretty similar numbers. Hossa is probably the better player between the 2 really. Anyways here’s a link to his contract in case you’re unfamiliar with it: http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=291
I don’t think you can even say that Marleau took a “hometown discount” after signing a deal like that. It’s possible he signs for less and his cap hit is even lower imo.
Goaltending:
Greiss deserves his shot, and he should definitely get it next season, but I’d really like to see us sign Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers (yeah, it’s a mouthful lol). Deslauriers has looked pretty damn good considering the team playing in front of him. He’s a giant butterfly goalie with good movement, good reflexes, and good anticipation of the play. Let Greiss and Deslauriers compete for the starting position; but I think with a quality defense in front of Deslauriers, he won’t have to play so deep in the net, and he’ll turn into a monster. Speaking of which…
Defense:
Blake retires and we trade Huskins for whatever we can get for him, or maybe include him in the Iginla deal and get something else back if that’s possible.
I think the playoffs have shown just how underrated our defense really is. Most of the goals scored against us in the Chicago series were due to mistakes made by forwards (mostly Heatley lol, but he did have a torn groin muscle so you can’t fault him much i guess.), or poor play by Nabokov. We do need another top pairing defensemen though, and that can be either Hamhuis or Zbynek Michalek. Either of them could probably be signed for 4 million (possible a bit less?), I chose Z Michalek myself. We then bring up Joslin since he seemed to play well for us earlier this season, although that spot could potentially go to whoever looks best at training camp.
Now that 3rd pairing seems a little weak but it is a 3rd line pairing, and there are adjustments that could be made to it; for example, if Marleau’s cap hit does end up being lower due to him taking a slight hometown discount, we could afford to keep Huskins or get someone else a little more dependable/experienced than Joslin. Hell, maybe Blake doesn’t retire, or he comes out of retirement before the deadline, and we can sign him for under 2 mil. I think Joslin and Demers will do fine as a 3rd pairing though, especially after a full regular season worth of experience.
Signing prices:
I think the prices i listed for all the signings may be a bit optimistic, but very fair and realistic. I’ve also left 1.1 million left in extra cap space to fill in wherever necessary. Like i mentioned above a couple times, i think it’s possible that Marleau’s cap hit could be even lower than 5.3 million if he’s willing to sign a contract even longer or cheaper than the one Hossa just signed in Chicago, which is very possible imo. I mean you gotta think that if Marian Hossa, signed with a team he had never played on before at a 5.3 million dollar cap hit, then Marleau (a life long shark) should easily be able to be signed to an even cheaper/longer deal (cap-wise). Either way, we have over a million of extra cap space to work with.
Conclusion:
The core of this team would be the same as it was last year, but with a few MAJOR improvements. This team would be an offensive POWERHOUSE. We would easily have the best top forward line in the NHL, and probably the best top 2 forward lines in the league. We would have a fairly solid defense, and 2 goaltenders with a LOT of potential, Deslauriers in particular; and we’d have 2 other quality goaltenders in the AHL that can be brought up in case of an emergency.
I get goosebumps just thinking about this roster, and it’s completely realistic that DW can make this happen if he wants to.
What do you guys think?
lol this started off as a quick post about Iginla and then snowballed into this massive post. I probably should’ve made a new fanpost or something.
It will probably take Pavelski to get Iginla.
Unless Iginla does a Dany Heatley, it will cost more than Clowe.
That 3rd line D could be suspect as well.
Kids in the back seat cause accidents. Accidents in the back seat cause kids.
Does anyone really think Marleau is going to sign for under six mil.? And as for Iginla if they want more, throw Seto into the mix( but who knows with Sutter, that guy is crazy…)
NOO
Why is everyone so willing to get rid of Seto? Personally, I think the guy is really good and we should not let him leave or trade him
I think if we got Iginla that Seto would be fair trade bait.
For the next year Seto < Iginla, fast forward 3-4 years MAYBE things change, but if you wanted to make a Cup run Iginla would be the better play as of right now.
Naw i think Iginla will be easier to get than you’d think. Calgary are desperate to rejuvenate their team and they don’t have many assest to work with, and no 1st and 2nd round picks. I can’t imagine a 1st round pick, a 2nd round pick, Ryan Clowe, and Ferriero not getting the deal done; and i think it would definitely be worth it.
Haha, I’m pretty sure we traded our only 2nd for Wallin. And people around these parts are mighty attached to our first 1st rounder in years. I’d trade it if it brings in Iginla, though.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 11:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I like 1st rounders too, but It’s Iginla so whatever. I thought we had two 2nd round picks and we traded one of them for Wallin, don’t we still have 1 left?
Not sure.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions
We traded one to Ottawa for Heatley, plus the Wallin trade.
Kids in the back seat cause accidents. Accidents in the back seat cause kids.
Ah, that’s what it was. That makes more sense. I was pretty sure we were out of 2nds, but didn’t remember where the second one went.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Calgary are so desperate to rejuvenate their team that they’d be willing to do a 1st + Clowe and Ferriero (or another young play with potential like Mcginn or maybe Mitchell), but we could throw in a 3rd too if necessary. If anyone can make that deal happen it’s DW. I mean he got Heatley, a player who’s just as high profile as Iginla, for a 5th round pick, Milan Michalek (a player who Clowe is probably equal to, if not better than), and he even dumped 3 million worth of cap space in Jonathan Cheechoo. A 1st + Clowe + a young prospect is twice as good a deal, and Iginla certainly isn’t twice the player that Heatley was at the time (no one is).
I’ve heard people from other teams propose much less to get Iginla. Clowe is a quality player, he almost had 60 points this season and he performed really well in the playoffs, except against Chicago but i think they were just a bad match for his playstyle; and no one performed well against Chicago anyways, except Marleau.
That roster is awesome!
I don’t think there’s any way that happens…but its fun to think about. I’m still really, really skeptical that Marleau will sign for anything less than 6 mil. Seto I still think gets north of 3 million, and Pavs might get north of 4 million. Malhotra could get 1.5, Nichol seems about right. I don’t think Edmondton lets Deslauriers go at that price, but it would be a good thing to have around with Greiss.
Finally, holy first line salaries, batman! 21.7 million through three players! Not exactly a lot of room to improve the team elsewhere if something doesn’t work out. Also, it’ll take more than Clowe + 1st to get it done…and Calgary needs a center.
It’s an interesting thought, though…and if DW could pull that roster off, the Cup is ours! Insanity!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you think Marleau should be resigned at a contract bigger than Hossa’s? It’s not like he’s only getting 5.3 million a year, he’s getting 7.9 million a year, but the last few years he only gets 1 mill. So think of it at Marleau signing for 7.9 million a year.
I think Seto at 3 is pretty good. Like i said earlier in this thread, Seto is wildly inconsistent and he only scored 30 somethin points this season. He hasn’t shown much to indicate that he has finally realized his potential. His potential isn’t much more promising than it was when we first signed him in 07 to a 1.2 million dollar contract really; although you gotta think that it’s just a matter of time. Pavs might require up to 4.5 though.
I totally forgot Deslauriers was an RFA for some reason. If we can get him for 990k we should definitely do it. Anything more than that and we’d have to give up a 3rd rounder. Worst case scenario, we let Greiss, Stalock and Karlsson fight it out and we’ll see what we end up with.
The Sharks organization has shown literally no inclination that they are willing to, or ownership wants to afford, the huge, front-loaded contracts. So, on that front, I’ll believe it when I see it. For now, I’m assuming all contracts will be close in both real actual money being paid, and cap hit.
I think Seto slots in at 3.5, personally…and Pavs at 4.5. If they can convince them to sign for less, by all means! But Clowe just last offseason, as an RFA, signed for 3.625, and Seto, IMO, is more important, and has done more before his RFA status, than Clowe ever did. 3.6 is overpayment, but I can’t reasonably expect Seto to be ok with accepting that much less…
I have no real issues with our internal goalies fighting it out, as long as the blueline is stacked using our cap savings. But it would still worry me heading into the season.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Has the Sharks organization done anything to indicate that they are unwilling to pay above the cap? Considering we were still riding the cap limit pretty hard after a 1st round loss, i’m sure they’d be ok with paying above it after a western conference finals appearance. Especially if it makes the team capable of putting together a roster like that.
Well, before the last few years, they had an internal cap, and didn’t spend near the cap. They increased it already to let DW spend to the cap to try and win a Cup. Would they be willing to once again spend more? Are they still making money on the team spending to the cap? I’m not sure…I haven’t looked into it. But I’m skeptical.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t really know enough about it either, but everything the Sharks organization has done in recent years indicates that they have the financial freedom to spend what is necessary to win a cup. Like i said though, if they’re willing to continue spending to the cap limit after a 1st round loss, it should be expected that they will be willing to spend a little more after the Sharks just made a conference finals appearance.
I remember hearing that the Sharks make an extra 1 million after every home game played in the playoffs. We’ve had 8 home games this last playoffs so you gotta think that’s 8 extra million dollars (or 5 more than last year, so 5 million) in the pockets of the Sharks organization; which is easily enough to cover the 2 million cap increase and the 2 million or so more they’ll be paying Marleau next year should he be signed to a long front-loaded contract.
Yeah, we’ll see. And it wouldn’t just be one year over the cap…it’d probably be like 4 before Patty’s salary goes down. But either way, every single person putting together an offseason plan so far has had a long term, front loaded contract for Patty (or him taking a hometown discount, which I think is even less likely), and I think it’s not a given the org is even willing to do that, so making entire offseason plans around it is pretty overly optimistic.
Then again, I saw that we were geting T.J. Oshie for Huskins and Mitchell and I lol’d.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Well if we can’t do a Hossa contract with Patty and he doesn’t take a hometown discount, we could let him walk, forget about Iginla, scratch Joslin, then sign Patrick Sharp, keep Ryane Clowe, and then maybe add Hamhuis.
So here’s what the worst case scenario roster would look like for me:
That setup has all the UFA’s and RFA’s getting paid the absolute most we can/should pay them, and the most they deserve to get paid imo. That roster should be able to be put together fairly easily. Our offense would be about the same, but we’d get a pretty nice boost on defense.
I definitely love my Iginla version about 100 times more, but this would be good too and it would be much easier to do.
Yeah, that looks a lot like the roster I put together earlier in this thread. I’d love to trade for Patrick Sharp…and maybe I’m just a pessimist, but I see Marleau walking this offseason.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
and yeah thats a lot of money on 1 line, but DUDE ITS JAROME IGINLA. He’s an amazing player as it is, but I don’t think hes realized his true potential. He’s never had a good number 1 center at his side, let alone Joe Thornton; and I think if he did, you would see an offensive EXPLOSION. GOD I WOULD LOVE TO SEE IT, DW PLZ IF YOU’RE READING THIS, MAKE MY DREAMS COME TRUE!
I love Jerome Iginla. If he’s in teal, I run around freaking out for weeks…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on May 31, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Iginla didn't exactly light it up playing with Sidney Crosby during the Olympics
I really like Iginla, but we’d have to pay a king’s ransom for him. And for that i’d be expecting 50+ goals, which he probably will never hit again in his career.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
In repsonse to you comment about top line pay being high
The proposed top line is only 700K higher than what we fielded last year
That's all fantastic
Except that no team that considers itself a legitimate contender ices a third pairing of Joslin/Demers. Kent Huskins was literally the only Shark who got better as the year went on. Hell, Jay Leach at $5M is probably a better alternative to Joslin. Demers is servicable, and the word out of Worcester this year was that Joslin isn’t quite ready yet.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Well i did say we’d go with whoever was best in training camp. I should’ve put Leach up there instead of Joslin though i guess.
It doesn’t matter though, because i’m planning on Blake coming out of retirement before the trade deadline to play some playoff hockey with the Sharks and signing for under 2 million, so we wouldn’t need Joslin or Leach anyways!
Gaddamn I keep looking at this and loving it.
Normally I wouldn’t want to lose our first round pick. But for Iginla I would totally be fine with it. I might even try throw Mitchell into the deal with Clowe and a first to see if we could get a 2nd back (which would not be too far from where we were selecting at the bottom of the first round anyhow).
Also we don’t have any healthy scratches. May or may not be a sticking point but usually teams rock a 22-23 person roster.
Yeah Mitchell + Clowe + a 1st for Iginla and a second sounds very workable. I’d hate to lose Mitchell though. He’s really starting to come into his own lately. Maybe we can exchange Mitchell with Ferreiro and someone like Nick Petrecki or something.
Also there’s an extra million in cap space there for some Worcester shuffling, although it might be needed to secure signings.
lol
I like the points made by that Andy Bensch guy at the bottom of the comments section.
Stars who are looking to play for another team to win a cup or who have fallen out of favor with their organization usually are traded for a package of potential.
I think that’s definitely the case with Iginla and Calgary, and it’s why a roster like i proposed is possible.
He also has a similar trade suggestion to the ones we’ve mentioned:
Clowe second line winger
Mitchell- speed energy guy on third/fourth
petrecki is a future kyle mclaren type defenseman
and a 1st round pick.
I can’t image that wouldn’t get the deal done, although i’d prefer if we could swap Mitchell for someone else.
I also like that quote by Iginla
“If they don’t want me here and they want to move in a direction or rebuild or believed they could do better, I would look at it. Absolutely.”
That extra little, “Absolutely”, says to me that he would really love a fresh start on a new team that can contend for the Stanley Cup.
I just look at this roster and I cringe. It is so top-heavy it’s a wonder it doesn’t collapse upon itself. Okay, that’s a little harsh, but still.
Iginla is signed through 2013 at $7M per. Heatley is signed through 2014 at $7.5M per. Boyle is signed through 2014 at $6.67M per. And then there are possible deals for Jumbo and Patty and Seto and Pavs that could all be through 2013/2014 as well. That’s a whole bunch of money tied up in very few players. That’s one of the reasons I was a vocal opposer of a Dany Heatley trade last summer – it’d destroy the Sharks’ ability to maneuver their roster and bring in new elements if some aren’t working.
There’s also the question of needing to re-sign current young players. Jason Demers’s contract will be up after this coming season, and you can bet he’ll be wanting more than the $534K he’s making now. And Logan Couture’s contract will be up after 2012, and he will likely be commanding more than $1.24M, which is what he’s making now. Same with McGinn and pretty much any prospect we’d bring up – their contracts would be up before Iginla’s, Heatley’s, Boyle’s, Clowe’s, Vlasic’s, Murray’s, and probably Pavelski’s and Setoguchi’s. There would be no room to re-sign them.
And then there’s the problem of the bottom pairing. Derek Joslin and Jason Demers is a pairing that will see maybe 5-7 minutes per night, maybe 10 minutes if they’ve improved since we’ve last seen them. That will put more pressure on the top 4 for the entire season, which could possibly wear them out for the post-season. And then once the playoffs come, Demers and Joslin will probably barely see any ice time at all, which means the top 4 will be playing a little under 30 minutes a night each. That’s not going to work, no matter how awesome Boyle is.
Finally, spending less than $2M on goalies scares the shit out of me, especially with so little room to maneuver to call up goalies. I mean, even Philly with their carousel of cheap goalies spent around $3M on Emery and Boucher. The inexperience of both goalies is worrying – with Emery and Boucher, Philly had two goalies that were risks but also had experience being starters. Neither of Deslauriers or Greiss have had that experience.
Maybe I’m alone on this, but I want to stay far away from Iginla. He’s on the downswing of his career, costs a whole lot of money, and we’ll have to give up plenty of assets to get him. And he’s not exactly a great playoffs performer, either – he’s only been past the first round once, and only managed to score more than a PPG pace twice. He shows up in the Olympics and internationally, sure, but apparently not in the NHL playoffs. Still don’t know why he has a reputation of being such a great leader, either.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jun 1, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
To be fair, Deslauriers started almost all season for the Oilers this year. Yes, it’s the Oilers, but to say he has no starting experience is a stretch.
The top heaviness of the salary structure is why I think Iginla isn’t on the Sharks’ radar. But Iginla is a badass, and has been one of my favorite non-Sharks players for quite a while. Seeing him in Teal would make me giddy. Maybe we could trade Heatley for him, lol…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
With that roster, the cup would be as good as ours. Even if the cap doesn’t go up in the following years, after a couple stanley cup wins, i’m sure the organization will be more than willing to do long term front-loaded contracts for guys like Thornton, Heatley, and whoever else is around 32 years old that we would want to keep for a long time; so that should save us some cap space. Plus it’s not like we can’t make trades, and then use prospects that have matured for our lower lines if necessary.
I dont’ think Iginla is on a downswing at all, he’s only 32 and I think he just needs some good teammates on his line to show how good he really is. It’s hard to look good when there are no other real offensive threats on your entire team, the other teams just focus solely on shutting Iginla down.
Iginla has never played with a center like Thornton. The best center he’s played with was Marc Savard i believe, and he scored 40-50 goals those seasons. Even just having a winger like Mike Vammelleri on his line allowed him to score 50 goals. With Thornton and Heatley on his line, I wouldn’t be surprised if Iginla won the Rocket Richard, the Art Ross, and the Hart Trophy all in his first season with the Sharks.
We talk about needing a guy to play with Thornton who can consistently put the puck in the back of the net, that’s Jarome Iginla. He’s a guy who never takes a shift off, he works harder than almost anyone else on the ice, and he knows how to score.
Me thinks Iginla's best days are behind him
Guy plays like a power forward. I’d say he probably has 3 more good seasons in him before he starts declining—- and quickly. Think John Leclair. While Iginla will add some scoring punch for the next three years, I don’t think that line is any better than HTML.
Furthermore, as mymclife said, you’re making the roster far too top-heavy. Teams win with defense. Both teams playing for the Cup have arguably the deepest d-corps in their respective conferences. It’s the same reason why the Caps and Pens failed to advance, because quite frankly, losing Hal Gill and Rob Scuderi and substituting with Jay McKee, Martin Skoula, and Goligoski isn’t quite the same. Adding another elite forward, but failing to bulk up the defense in front of a questionable group of goaltenders is a recipe for disaster.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know if i’d call Deslauriers “questionable”, he’s done pretty well considering he’s got the worst team in the league supporting him.
Also we’d have 2 strong defensive lines with Boyle/Michalek and Vlasic/Murray. Our 3rd line of Leach (or maybe a Worcester guy who shows that he’s ready) and Demers wouldn’t be very strong defensively but we’d just have to protect them from playing against other teams’ top lines, and even if they got caught going against a top line it wouldn’t be that bad, especially considering how defensively responsible most of our forwards have become.
We’d have probably the best top 2 forward lines in the league, and a very strong third line capable of scoring (Couture, Malhotra, and Mcginn/Mitchell).
From a blues fan
Reading through here Ive got a few comments on cap numbers for your consideration.
Depending on how a few of our FA signings go this summer I would absolutely pay 4mil for Pavs, most likely 4.5 and maybe 5 mil/5 years for him. I think he gets 4.5 contract over 4-6 years depending on what hes interesting in.
Seto is gonna probably cost you 3 mil. Keep an eye on David Perron who has similar stats/RFA/Age and is up for a new contract this year. I figure Perron is a little better and im expecting him to get between 3-3.5
The guys over at Pension Plan Puppets would laugh, LAUGH, if they could get Marleau off you for only 6 mil a year.
The Preds blog think Hamuis will get 4 mil and Im under the impression they sign him if hes only getting a notch above 3.
All your roster projections dont take into account the 2 extra bodies you would have on the roster for healthy scratches.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
I wonder if Blues management would pay 5 mill + the 1st 2nd and 3rd round picks necessary to sign him as an RFA for a player who’s never broken 60 points in a season in his career just because he had one hot streak in the playoffs?
Now i personally believe it wasn’t just luck that he played so well in the playoffs, i think of it as ‘it was just a matter of time’, but then again i’m a Sharks fan and Pavs is a long time Shark so i’m a little biased. Realistically though, i would think that it would be a big risk to lose all your high draft picks to sign a player like Pavelski for 5 mill just because you think that he may have ‘turned a corner’ or something based on a few games.
Tomas Plekanec is a UFA centerman who can probably be gotten for about the same price if not less (and wouldn’t require you to lose all your high picks), and he’s got better numbers than Pavs. Hell, Henrik Sedin only makes 6 mil, not that he can be gotten.
Seto is more of what we need but Pavs put up 25/25 for 2 years in a row and only played 70 games this year. He will definitely get 4.5mil from someone. While we might not straight up Offer sheet him from you we pick 15th overall this year and id expect better production from him than the 15th and our window is opening now. I’m not saying its going to be the blues that make a move on him but if his rights were for sale and we could sign him for 4.5 id offer you our first and a decent prospect(read 2nd round worthy). Phil Kessel played 1 good year at 35/25 and got 5.5 mil over 5 years and was worth 2 firsts and a second. Pavelski is gonna get paid.
The point though wasn’t that we were going to poach him but that he will get more than 4 mil and if the sharks think they can lowball him and he want’s to get paid someone out there will be happy to send you their 1/2/3 for him.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
4.5 million or less wouldn’t be enough to snag Pavs from us so you would sign him for 4.6+ million and you would HAVE to give us a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick as compensation for signing our RFA. Here’s breakdown:
$994,433 or below – No Compensation
$994,434 – $1,506,717 – 2010 3rd round pick
$1506,718 – $3,013,433 – 2010 2nd round pick
$3,013,433 – $4,520,150 – 2010 1st round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$4,520,151 – $6,026,867 – 2010 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
$6,026,868 – $7,533,584 – 2010 1st round pick, 2011 1st round pick, 2010 2nd round pick, 2010 3rd round pick
Over $7,533,584 – 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 1st round picks.
I know
Im just saying you are going to end up paying him a number that doesn’t start with 3 because people will think hes worth the loss of picks.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Yeah of course. I think 4 million would be fair, but 4.53 million would ensure that no else touches him i think. Not just because of the picks required but because I don’t think Pavs would leave San Jose for only a 500k pay increase; especially since there’s a good chance he’ll be made captain now that Blake is gone.
The guys over at Pension Plan Puppets would laugh, LAUGH, if they could get Marleau off you for only 6 mil a year.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You were right.
But seriously 6m would be a pretty big hometown discount, let alone the 5m i’ve seen. Only way that works is long-term deal….
Hell, Lidstrom’s “discount” was “only” taking 6.2M.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Well there’s no reason to think we wouldn’t sign him to a long term deal. His cap hit could be only 5 mill come september.
All your roster projections dont take into account the 2 extra bodies you would have on the roster for healthy scratches.
Technically you only need to have 20 players on your team’s roster. We should know – that’s what the Sharks did for pretty much all of last season. Someone’s hurt? Bring up a prospect for a game, send them back down after the game’s over for the two days between games, and then bring him up again for the next game.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
The Return of the Worcester Shuttle!!!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably going to be a necesity as long as
we are right up against the cap, and have top heavy cap structure.
My rosterbation....
I like this one, and it leaves room to bring Ferriero up as well.
Dude, lemme getchur keys.
lol 3.5 is definitely too low for Pavs. No way he gets paid less than Clowe. 3.2 is pretty low for Hamhuis as well.
I keep hearing Petrecki isn’t ready for the NHL yet so i wouldn’t put him on there. I assume Hamhuis would be with Boyle or something. Putting him on the 3rd pairing with Petrecki or any other NHLer would be a waste of his talents (and cap space).
why do people keep tempting with the idea of playing two rookie goaltenders?
Strong first pairing. Average second and third pairings. In front of two rookie goaltenders. That’s a recipe for disaster and makes the Sharks even more vulnerable than this year.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I figured it was so they had more fake cap room to make fake trades that will never happen?
But yes I think you need someone you can put at least a little trust in..Even if its another teams backup that only gets 20-30 starts a year, its better than hoping the rookies play out of their minds.
Deslauriers only became starter by default after their former Stanley-cup winning goalie, Nikolai Khabibulin, went down with a season-ending injury.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
.901 save% isn’t particularly good. But, I agree, the Oilers were teh suck. Hopefully Tyler Seguin can make hockey in Edmonton relevant again.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, .901 is not good. Let in two more goals, and his save percentage is under .900 – .899 to be precise – and nobody thinks that is good.
A lot of times, good goalies on bad teams can have a good stats – especially a good save percentage – because they see a lot of shots that good defenses would have blocked, and therefore make more saves. It happened to Luongo, Vokoun, Anderson, Miller, and Hiller. That Deslauriers is not showing the same trend concerns me.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Deslauriers shows flashes of brilliance last year…every now and then. He’d have like 2 or 3 starts where he’d have a 33 save shutout, a 39 save on 41 shot loss (EDM was awful), and another like game. But then he’d go four or five in a row giving up 4 or 5 goals on like 27 shots. Which, no matter who you play for, really isn’t that good. He really wasn’t consistant at all.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 11:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I figured it was so they had more fake cap room to make fake trades that will never happen?
next stop, playing as GM in NHL 10!
Craig Anderson is a pretty good example of a backup that had strong starts as a backup and got a chance to show he can be the backbone of a team.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 1, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
What will next year cap total be you think?
The two rosters i created were based on a 2 million increase. So it would go from 56.8 to 58.8, but i just realized all your guys’s rosters are at a 59+ million cap total.
mine
was more a fantasy world roster with the 59.3 million roughly based off of what most people on here had used. I really more just wanted in on the posting fun since I haven’t wanted to open my mouth about the Sharks for the last week while I let my disappointment set in.
and to be honest in the real world I would not be THAT nervous about taking Thomas Greiss into next season as our starter, granted it is definitely not ideal but I don’t think it would fold the sharks into less of a team.
Dude, lemme getchur keys.
Defensively Focused Rosterbation with what I hope are pretty realistic numbers...
Departures
Torrey Mitchell, Douglas Murray (Noooooooooooooo!!!!!), and Huskins – trade ’em all for picks whatever you can get, probably could squeeze a 2nd rounder or two out of there somehow. Anything past that and we are in the bonus.
Arrivals
Henrick Tallinder – good shutdown D in the prime of his career. Good size and skating, middling physicality.
Adrian Aucoin – Basically a slightly younger Rob Blake replacement sans cup ring. Big time shot, put up comparable numbers to Blake on a D first Phoenix team. Should be able to log more minutes than Blake did.
Jordan Leopold – Good skating, big minute D man. Should help us keep up with the quicker teams in the league.
Antero Nittymaki – Veteran backup who has put up some decent numbers on the Lightning the past few years. Not eye popping, but could make a good tandem with Greiss.
The Theory
Basically I don’t think there was that much wrong with our offense last year. No need to go out and land a big time offensive free agent. And from reading around here and on the rest of the interwebs there seems to be consensus that the top D men that might be at the top of our price range are Hamhuis, Seidenberg, Michalek. I have seen lots of speculation that puts these guys upperwards of $4 mil per. Instead of getting into a pissing contest with all the other teams fighting for the top UFA Dmen, I would see if I could spread that money around a little more and add some real depth to our D corps.
Tallinder is a quality shutdown guy we can put up against the other teams top lines. He’s not the sexy pick – but since his last contract was a cap hit of $2.5 we could probably give him a 20% raise to get him out here for 3 years. Coming from Buffalo he might enjoy not freezing his balls off for a couple of seasons.
Then we could replace Rob Blake with Phoenix’s version in Adrian Aucoin. Get him at $2 mil per. He played a minute more per game than Blake did last year – and put up similar numbers (less penalty minutes, so probably he’s not a guaranteed hooking penalty per game :P). He has a big time shot and I would pair him with Vlasic (he is used to playing with old dudes).
Jordan Leopold – already logging big minutes, plays a sound defensive game and can effectively move the puck. He is coming off a one year $1.75 mil deal that he signed with the Panthers and was traded to the Pens at the deadline. I put him a $2, we could probably get him cheaper. As a guys that logged 20+ mins a night this season I think to say that this would be an upgrade over Huskings.
It’s clear that when DW put this D corp together 2 years ago he was trying to keep pace with the physical play of Anaheim. Now, though, the teams that give us the most trouble are the speedy quick teams like Chicago and Denver. I think Tallinder, and Leopold will be much better skaters than Murray and Huskins. Plus we have much more defensive depth and can roll our three D lines without sheltering the third line quite so much (provided Demers can continue to improve his D play).
I tried to put in some realistic numbers for everybody. I probably got something wrong. Let me know what you think.
PS also we have a decent amount of cap room to bring in an impact deadline player (I want David Backes).
I don’t think Tallinder is worth 3 million to us. I think playing next to Tyler Myers probably made him look better than he really is. I’d much rather sign Dennis Seidenberg, who could probably be gotten for 2.5 – 3 million which is awesome for his talent. Ideally i’d like to get Seidenberg and Z Michalek (Michalek would take 3.5 – 4 i think).
I’m sold on Carey Price now, although i still think Deslauriers would do well.
Tallinder is an interesting name I have yet to see brought up. I actually kinda like him. Not sure he’s a true #2, though…which is really what we need.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 2, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's what i got now
I think we could get Raffi Torres for cheap considering the bad postseason he had; but i think he’s a good player who can put up 20 goals with some good linemates like Malhotra and Mitchell. His poor postseason performance might’ve just been due to him not fitting in on the Sabres, or just a small sample size; either way we can take advantage of that by signing him for cheap, even it’s just for 1 year.
Seidenberg is really good, and hopefully 3 million would be enough to get him in San Jose (We ARE a cup contender and we got awesome weather! lol).
Interesting Stats about Marleau
Of all UFA available this year Patty Marleau is:
- #1 Goal Scoring
- #2 Points
- #4 Assists
- #1 Shorthanded Goals
Pretty desirable guy, eh? Unless you plan on paying him $5 per year until the end of time I don’t think he is going to stay in SJ for that much of a discount. I mean at some point $2 million extra per year offsets the cost of getting an apartment in LA. At first I was thinking that we might get him at maybe 5.5, but I think somewheres around 6 is most realistic.
I am also interested to see who gets more on the open market between Seidenburg and Michalek. Michalek has better career numbers, but Seidenburg had a better season this last year. Though Seidenburg did put up the same numbers this year that got him a $2.25 contract last year. There are some pretty big names at the top of the UFA Dman list, maybe one or both of these guys could slide to us.
lol didn't see you posted that, but yeah man.
Hossa and Marleau put up nearly identical numbers, they’re both really fast, they’re both good two way players, and both of them play a lot on the PK (they’re also both short handed threats) and the PP.
We should be able to sign Marleau to the same contract Hossa got signed to without requiring any charity on Marleaus part really.
Those long frontloaded contracts are quickly becoming necessary in order to stay competitive in today’s NHL. I’m sure the Sharks organization see’s that and i’m sure they’re willing to do one of those if that’s what it takes to stay one of the top teams (and it is) in the NHL.
So i don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to sign him to the same contract Chicago signed Hossa to. Marleau would be making 7.9 million for a few years, how could he not like that? Is Marleau a better player than Hossa? I dunno, they’re pretty similar, but i wouldn’t say Marleau is better.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Friday’s Three Stars: Blackhawks lose seventh straight; Wings win nineteenth straight at home
- Puck Previews: Blackhawks reeling; Sabres streaking; Holmstrom’s 1000th game
- Will Teemu Selanne remain with the Anaheim Ducks through the trade deadline?
- Nikolai Zherdev takes stick to crotch, elbow drop in KHL game (Video)
- Puck Headlines: Accused coach Pravilov dead; more Tim Thomas heat; Junior team goes nuts post-shootout
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- WHL Roundup: A look at Friday's games
- Franson scores winner as the Giants edge the Silvertips 3-2
- Ross with goal and assist to lead the Winterhawks over the Americans 4-2
- Wedman, Aviani and Valcourt lead the Chiefs over the Thunderbirds 5-4
- Elynuik scores winner as the Cougars beat the Oil Kings 5-4 in OT
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
