SAN JOSE, Calif. -- San Jose Sharks Executive Vice President and General Manager Doug Wilson announced today that the team has signed defenseman Taylor Doherty, center Marek Viedensky, goaltender Harri Sateri and unrestricted free agent goaltender Carter Hutton. In keeping with club policy, financial terms of the deals were not disclosed.
Three other players, defenseman Julien Demers (2008, fifth round), Samuel Groulx (2008, fourth round) and Patrick Zakrisson (2007, fifth round) were not signed to contracts and are eligible to re-enter the NHL Draft.
almost 2 years ago
Mr. Plank
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Anything about William Wrenn?
I can just imagine maybe 2 or 3 years from now Wrenn and Doherty being the next shutdown duo in the NHL.
Harri Sateri
is a pretty big boy, from what I remember when we drafted him….Finnish I believe. Hey maybe he’ll be our Niemi? LOL.
BERTUZZI: "Getting tired, Nabby? You've got another five and a half minutes of hell coming."
NABOKOV: "You've got another five and a half minutes left in your season."
HARRI SATERI ????????
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 1, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Doherty : 2Y, $1.8MM, 900K CH
Vidensky: 3Y, $1.8MM, 600K CH
Sateri: 3Y, $2.04MM, $679,167 CH
What’s interesting to me, here, is that Sateri was signed to a pro contract. He could still play another year in Finland, but the pro deal means he’s likely coming out to the U.S. to play. That means there are five goalies now signed to pro contracts in the system, and with Karlsson an RFA and likely to resign, that’s six.
I’m guessing there are two possible outcomes: 1) Griess splits time with a rookie in San Jose next year or 2) One of the goalies is going to be traded. I’m going with #2
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
As long
as it’s not Stalock, I’m ok with #2 as well :o)
BERTUZZI: "Getting tired, Nabby? You've got another five and a half minutes of hell coming."
NABOKOV: "You've got another five and a half minutes left in your season."
by sharkiesgirl on Jun 1, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d trade Stalock if it got us someone like Iginla, although i doubt Calgary are that interested in another goaltender.
Stalock is pretty small, smaller than Nabokov. I think best case scenario he ends up being another Nabokov, but that’s very wishful thinking. I think we should be trying to get a giant, young, smart, fast goaltender who isn’t afraid to use the butterfly. Karlsson could definitely be what we need, Greiss could too, or we could get a guy like Jeff Deslauriers from Edmonton.
Obviously that wouldn’t be a 1 for 1 Stalock for Iginla deal though lol…He’d be a small piece in a bigger deal.
I just think that these days teams are focusing more on screening goaltenders, getting deflections, and getting traffic in front of the net; and in situations like that the best thing to have is a giant butterfly goaltender who can stop all the low shots just by being there, and hopefully the high shots wouldn’t get through with bodies in front of the net. Smaller goaltenders, no matter how quick they are, just seem to be at a huge disadvantage in the sport these days.
IIRC, Sateri was drafted in the second round by a team in the KHL, so the Sharks are probably using the pro contract as a way to keep him the property of the Sharks rather than losing him for nothing.
I think Karlsson was also signed to a pro deal, but the Sharks “loaned” him to his Swedish team. The same could be done with Sateri, I’m guessing.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Could be, just curious.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
I still think a goalie gets traded this offseason.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s a strong possibility with Greiss, Stalock, Sexsmith, Sateri, Karlsson, Heemskerk, and Hutton all being in the organization.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
There has been some rumors floating around:Clowe and a goalie prospect for Carey Price. I’d take that deal in a heartbeat.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Jim Mathieson of the Edmonton Journal, although he’s just speculating.
I’ve heard it elsewhere as well though.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Really? What would we want with Price? I’d much rather trade Clowe for highish picks in this draft. We need to reduce the number of total goalies in the system, not get another one when we’ve got so man of them already.
We’d grab one with an established track record and an unbelieveably high ceiling, and would probably be ablso to sign hm to a deal below his market value. We’d save money in nets and use the excess to sign a defenseman.
I think it’s a pretty perfect situation.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Price could possibly shore up the nets for a long time, and I’d give him a better chance to do so than any of the other prospects in the system because he’s a relatively know quantity. From there, we could continue to trade from that position of strength, or if Price struggles, we have capable backups waiting in the wings.
A big part of this is getting out from under Clowe’s contract. He’s severely overpaid and with Couture ready to play top six minutes, I don’t think he makes it through this offseason as a Shark. The defense needs to improve, and this deal frees up enough cash to do that.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d be more than ok with that trade. Price, if we can get him for 2.5 mil or less, would be a perfect solution in net for us. People are ready to give up on him already…but the kid is only 22. He could be a badass still. And, as you said, with the goaltending depth we’d still have in the minors, if he’s a bust, we still have other options.
And getting someone to eat Clowe’s contract for us would be helpful in trying to upgrade the scoring and defensive depth of the team as well. I’ve been on the trade-for-Price train this offseason since Halak firmly took hold of the reins in Montreal.
In a heartbeat…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I think $2.5MM to Price is really the sweet spot for the guy.
Now, this is all quick ideas, but here is an off the top of my head roster, assuming Marleau signs an LT deal for $5MM and Pavs, Seto and Manny are signed for $4MM, $3.5MM and $2MM.
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($5.000m)
Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / * Devin Setoguchi ($3.500m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / * Manny Malhotra ($2.000m)/ Jamie McGinn ($0.997m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / * Scott Nichol ($0.750m) / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.500m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 19; CAP:$56.8m; PAYROLL: $52.508m; CAP ROOM: $5.222m BONUSES: $0.930m
This leaves us $5.22MM to fill one spot, and we could do so with a legitimate defenseman. I would also like to trade Huskins to get rid of the salary hit, which would let us sign two defenseman, but that’s unlikely.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Huskins kinda came on lately and got better…especially paired with Demers. Him and Demers wouldn’t be a terrible, protected, bottom pairing.
I’d swap Couture and Marleau in your lines…but that’s not the point of your post. I know. Just sayin…
2.5 for Price would be a slight bump in salary, but probably less than he’ll be worth even a year down the road. So, yeah, that would be pretty awesome.
5 million seems really low for Marleau. And I’m not ready to assume we’re going to be willing to sign him to a long, front loaded deal yet. It costs the owners money, and I thought they were only barely willing to spend to the cap as it was. But whatever, if it works, it works. I just think it’s overly optimistic to think Marleau signs for such a low cap hit if he stays with us. No one seems to agree with me, though, lol.
5 million left over for a D man seems awesome, though.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t have a problem with Huskins, personally. But would I rather be able to sign two defensemen at $3.5 MM hits? You bet I would.
That was a quick mash up, so don’t worry about the line combos. However, I am under the belief that Marleau will sign one of those deals. It seems to be the trend nowadays, and I think Marleau wants to stay. We’ll find out soon enough, though.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It could be possible to get Hamhuis and Zbynek Michalek at 3.5 million each, if DW works his “wanna join a cup contender?” magic. Although they might require 4 mill each.
Not likely, although that would be one of the better defenses around.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Indeed we will find out soon enough. Just put me in the camp of “I’ll believe it when I see it.” No one really knows anything of what will happen, or what the ownership group and DW are thinking…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Man, theres no reason to think the Shark owner aren’t willing to spend over the cap. They’re always signing contracts with prospects and other kids outside of the NHL like it’s nothing. i’m sure they’d be willing to spend a little more on a guy like Marleau if it gives the team a big advantage, which it would.
That sounds reasonable.
It’s been said before, but Price needs a fresh start. We’d be a good fit because while the fans do put pressure on the team, we don’t run players out of town. I think it’d also be a good fit because he can improve his chances of being on a contender.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 1, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with getting a possible long term starter externally is that if he works out, it completely devalues our goalie pipeline. No one is giving up anything of serious value for guys like Heemskerk, Hutton, Sexsmith, and Sateri. Goalie prospects are among the least valued assets in the NHL. A blue chipper like Kiprusoff, who had more of a pedigree than any of our current prospects only managed to get a 2nd round pick in return.
And I really don’t think that this is the only option for dumping Clowe. He may be slightly overpaid, but he still has a reputation for being a physical presence and would be quite valuable on many teams. His contract certainly isn’t ridiculous and he definitely has positive value. I personally think that if Burke was willing to give up his 1st last year for Clowe, we should at least be able to get a mid to late 1st round pick out of someone for a Clowe+Huskins dump. (The Pens could use a half-decent winger not named Kunitz.)
And I think Price is equivalent to that first round pick you talk about. So would I trade Clowe for Price? Yes.
Also, I really don’t care if our pipeline is devalued, especially if we have a long term solution in net.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously, if Price works out and is awesome in net for us, is anyone really going to care that the kids in our pipeline are blocked? Price is 22, he could be around for a long time and block everyone, and if it is a winning solution, I’m fine with it.
It’s never a bad thing to have too many good goalies (or too many good anythings, really).
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
It is bad to go from having a lot of good things you can get value for to having a lot of useless good things, which is what blocking the goalie pipeline does.
While I agree with you, I think adding Price makes that easier to swallow. In my opinion you are undervaluing him, since he’s already been an NHL starter for three years to above average results. A 75% chance to be an NHL starter is much, much too low.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
The goalies in the pipeline wouldn’t be useless, though! People will still give up tangible assets (picks, players, etc) to get their hands on a young up and coming goalie. It’s not like they all go to waste should we pick up a starter.
Also, who’s to say Stalock, Sexsmith, Haamersteek, etc. will automatically prove to be better than Price? They may end up being worthless anyways. I’ll always side with the side of having too much of a good thing.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
As long as they all get a chance to outplay Price (and Greiss) I don’t see much of a problem. If Goalies get stuck in our pipeline it’ll be because they aren’t good enough to be our starter or our backup, in which case they shouldn’t have much to complain about.
If Greiss isn’t doing very well, and Karlsson has turned into a brick wall in the AHL, we can bring him up and see how he does. If he outperforms Greiss, he’ll be our new backup, and we can trade Greiss for whatever we can get for him. If he outperforms Price, he’ll be our new starter and we’d probably trade Price and leave greiss or bring up stalock as our backup.
The bottom line is, if the goaltending prospects play well, they’ll either end up in San Jose or they’ll end up being traded to another NHL team to play for them. Either way, it’s not like they’ll be stuck in Worcester forever with no hope of leaving. They just have to perform.
But the question isn’t Price or no Price, it’s Price or a high end wing or defense prospect, which is a rare opportunity for a successful team like the Sharks, if you, like myself, think we can get a mid 1st for Clowe+goalie prospect.
Outside of the top 10 this year, though, there aren’t many top end prospects. And if a team has current cup aspirations (as in this year), why would you prefer a guy who won’t be ready for 2-3 years over someone who can start now and bring value, especially if you are giving up a current roster player.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
We’re in the business of winning Stanley Cups…right now. This is the window. Price would help us do that far more than a future prospect would. Yes, prospects are nice. But when it comes to trading away pieces of our current Western Conference Finalist team, I want something back that is going to potentially help us win a Cup right now.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Sign Deslauriers for super cheap, keep Ryane Clowe, and keep our defensive prospect!
Who’s going to fill Ryan Clowe’s shoes on this cup winning team? We lost his 3.6 million cap hit but we’ve taken on 2.5 million with Price, so there isn’t much cap space gained there to get quality top 6 guy. You could bring up couture but then we’ve lost the hope of having a scoring 3rd forward line, which i think is kinda necessary to win a cup these days.
We wouldn’t ever lose a defensive prospect. tarlinian is talking about instead of trading clowe for price, trade him for a 1st round pick and draft another defensive prospect.
Price >>> Deslauriers
And Clowe’s shoes would be filled just fine. Both with his cap savings being applied to the blueline, and putting Couture on the second line (or McGinn, or Malhotra, or Marleau if we keep him, and put anyone we want on the first line…they’ll still score). I like the idea of putting Couture on the 3rd line if McL actually makes them a scoring line with minutes to match. Otherwise, Couture is best used on the top 6 on the wing.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no idea why people are so down on Price. He’s had very solid numbers for three straight years and he’s only 22.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
But he parties and smokes cigarettes! And the Montreal media and fans hate him and will likely drive him out of town! As we all know, they only do that to players that absolutely suck.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
he’s only 22
That’s the biggest drawing point for me. He’s only 22!!! And he’s been really solid. Montreal just hates all goalies that don’t pitch a shutout every game. Being 22 with three solid NHL years under the belt…and being undervalued as much as he is…that’s so rare. His skillset, and his age, really leads me to believe he could still be really, really good. I want in on that.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem for Price: He's in Montreal
They poor guy gets boo’ed at home at the end of the season last year. Montreal fans can be jerks, but I think something like that will definitely get into his head.
Nothing like playing on a good team in California to clear your mind I guess…
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Yes
Because we don’t boo or jeer our own players ever…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Exactly!
No, but seriously I think the audible pressure (both fans and media on a day-in-day-out basis) is going to be a lot less.
And he’s been hyped as the kid who brings the Cup to Montreal. Unfortunately for him, Halak has now become that kid.
Coming to san jose would mean less pressure (though he better win us that Cup), and moreover a better team in front of him.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
No he isn’t. A mid first is far more valuable than Price to the Sharks. Let’s say that on average each of our goalie prospects has a 20% (I think that’s underestimating it) chance of being a bona fide NHL starter. That would mean that there’s approximately 79% chance that we have the solution in our own pipeline. Let’s say that Price has a 75% chance of being a genuine NHL starter (I’m probably overestimating here). If we trade Clowe+our worst goalie prospect for him (which we shall assume ups the average chance of a Sharks goalie prospect of being a bona fide NHL starter to 25%), the chance of having a real NHL starter in the system is now 91%. The upgrade from a 79% to 91% chance of having a bona fide NHL starter is most definitely not worth a 1st round pick, when that 1st round pick could fill a position of need in the Sharks organization, e.g. it could up their chances of having a future top pairing dman from something like 28% to 42%. (I’m assuming Doherty has a 20% chance and Petrecki a 10% chance of being a top pairing dman, and a mid 1st round pick of a guy like Merrill or Pysyk would have a 20% chance of being a future top pair guy.)
Furthermore, blocking our pipeline is a big deal. You should care if the Sharks assets are devalued, as it essentially makes all the draft picks spent on these guys worthless. If Price succeeds, you’re basically trading all the draft picks the Sharks have spent on goalies in the last few years along with Clowe for him, and if he fails you’ve basically traded a possible 1st round pick for nothing. You’re also devaluing the effort they’ve put into getting FA goalie signings which will be dramatically hampered in the future when possible undrafted FAs see that all the guys that signed with the Sharks had their careers stall out because the Sharks decided to trade for some other guy. Goalies are the one thing the Sharks are better than 90% of teams out there at getting. Throwing away that organizational strength would be a huge mistake for the Sharks.
Over 89% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think I explained my reasoning rather clearly in my post, obviously the initial numbers are guesses, consider that of the 18 goalies that have been drafted by the Sharks, 3 of them have become good to excellent NHL starters for a decent period of time, giving us that the chance of a SJ drafted goalie making the NHL to be 1/6, adding an extra 4% to the current crop of prospects, all of whom have actually been signed to contracts, (unlike many of those 16 draftees).
As for Price, the hope in trading for him is not to simply have an adequate starter, but to have a great one. If you just want and adequate starting goalie you can sign Ellis for about the same it will cost to sign Price and not have to give up assets to get him.
I just find it funny using made up statistics to do analysis. Sure, it conveys a point, but it’s still based entirely on fiction.
You know what they say: lies, damn lies and statistics…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
They aren’t made up though, the numbers on Sharks prospects are derived from an actual record in the draft, and in the end, it’s supposed to be illustrative. Adding a potential top pairing dman to the ridiculously small pool of such prospects we have now is more valuable than marginally increasing the chance of having a future excellent starting goalie.
I don’t think they’re throwing it away, and while I see your point and you’ve obviously put some time into your statistics, I still don’t agree with you.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, this is still nonsense because we could have the same thing happen again. What if Stalock comes into the NHL next year and is our goalie for 10 years. Then our pipeline of goalies is still as devalued. We’d be getting rid of one prospect for another with more NHL experience. There is no way we go with 2 rookies in net next year when we think we can contend for the cup. There will be a vet of some kind brought in.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Very good point. In addittion, if each goalie has a 20% chance, how long will it take for them to realize this potential? How many of the others will we go through before we find the one that works?
The reason I like Price is because he has potential AND a track record. That’s worth more than any prospect or pick out there.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no way we go with 2 rookies in net next year when we think we can contend for the cup.
This is a very key point. Everyone’s high on putting in a cheap rookie and winning a cup. But most rookies do not end up like Niemi, and they aren’t a sure thing. Chicago still had an overpriced Huet as insurance (and as their starter until Niemi BEAT HIM OUT by playing better). Handing the reins to a rookie, and making a rookie earn the reins by outplaying the starter are two very different things.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I have no problem with bringing in a vet next year. I’ve been an advocate of signing Ellis next year for some time now. It’s bringing in a long term solution from outside the organization that irks me.
That’s still bringing in a potential long term solution from outside the orginization. Say the dream happens… we sign Ellis, we win the Stanely Cup and he’s in net. You think they just let him walk?
Fans would cry bloody murder.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
How does that change the fact we've probably found our starter
From outside the organization for the foreseeable future. It’s not like Ellis is nearing retirement.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
You keep trading away the guy that doesn’t earn the starting job. You’re far less likely to give up on Price even if he does get outperformed by goalie prospect X because of the sunk costs. (You shouldn’t, but most people, including most NHL GMs, are susceptible to that.)
I don’t think it would be much different. We really don’t know with goalies, but it seems like DW is quick to move on from his own young talent, I don’t forsee him treating these guys any differently.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
DW is as prone to the sunk cost fallacy as anyone else. He obviously isn’t a Brian Sabean who’ll keep playing a guy who’s wrist doesn’t exist just because he has a large contract, but just look at the re-signing of Huskins. Players for which assets have been given up will be given every opportunity to succeed over homegrown folks who cost very little.
Flopping tendons, floating bone chips, torn hamstrings, pulled suck muscle… It’s amazing the Giants have remained as competitive as they have considering how many injuries Sabean and Bochy are forcing guys to play through.
Seriously. DeRosa went 0fer and hit into two double plays in HIGH A. Let him get the surgery he wants, for crying out loud!
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
ULTIMATE THREAD FAIL?
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, I was referring to the Giants in the post she replied to
when talking about every GM’s Sabeanistic tendencies.
I didn’t see the Sabean reference. I thought she accidentaly posted an MCC comment in FTF, hah.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I posted in response to the Sabean/non-existent wrist reference. Ranting about that is fun.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
No problem here, in complete agreement.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
And it’s such a relief to go over here, where we have no such concerns with our GM. I love Doug Wilson. I wish I could clone him and make him the GM of the Giants. He’d probably somehow pull off Rowand, Torres, and Schierholtz for Pujols.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Why would the Giants want Raffi Torres?
I kid.. I kid.
Though I think it’s interesting that Tom Glavine was drafted in both the MLB and the NHL (Kings).
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
And how awesome of a selling point to Ellis would that be: “hey dude, you’re pretty average. Wanna come start until we’re ready to replace you with unproven kids? Doesn’t matter if you play out of your mind or not…we just need a stopgap.” Anyone we sign to play goalie this season will come in with the mindset that they want to be the starter and win a stanley cup. Which could very well make them the long term solution…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s bringing in a long term solution from outside the organization that irks me.
If Price was brought in, played goalie how he’s capable of (which is at the level of an above average NHL goalie) and the Sharks win the Cup, and Price entrenches himself as our starter of the future, would you really be upset that Stalock or Karlsson are stuck in the AHL? I know I wouldn’t. We’d have a Cup and a goaltender of the future!
And if he doesn’t work out the first few years, and shows no signs of improvement…Stalock or Karlsson or whomever will still be around to try and take his job from him. 2.5 million a year isn’t a huge sunk cost if it doesn’t work out…and this is not anywhere close to a make or break year for our goaltending prospects. They still have much more they can learn at the AHL level. They don’t HAVE TO be up RIGHT NOW!
If we can get Price for 2.5 million a year over 4 years, it really does seem like a win-win to me. If he works out, great! If he doesn’t, the kids will have gotten some more seasoning in the AHL (which they can certainly use) and will get their chance to win the starting job.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I think you guys are underrating Clowe. He did have more points than Pavelski or Seto did this season. although Pavs missed a lot of games. I think we can get better value from trading him than keeping him, but I wonder if Carey Price is really worth it. He COULD be amazing for us, but so could Greiss, Karlsson, or even Stalock (or Jeff Deslauriers!). I feel like we gotta give those guys a shot before we start sacrificing talent in other areas to get another not-so-sure-thing.
I think that you are undervaluing Price. A 22 year old goaltender perfectly suited for today’s NHL, coming off three seasons of an above .905 s%, who will likely sign for under $3MM.
I love Clowe, but he does not deseve to be one of the higest paid players on the current roster, especially if he’s on the third line or on the second line at Couture’s expense.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m lobbying for signing Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers if we can get him for cheap (like 1 mill or maybe less), which is a possibility.
I remember watching Price when we played him and he did look damn good, but I remember Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers look pretty damn good when we played the Oilers too.
I don’t know the Canadiens very well so I can’t really tell how much help Price is getting from the team in front of him; but i can pretty safely say that Jeff Drouin-Deslauriers isn’t getting much help at all from the Oilers, and his numbers aren’t much worse.
I just think if we can get Deslauriers, keep Ryan Clowe (even if just to use him in another trade), and save our self 1+ million in cap space, we’d be better off.
I'd want Price
if we can sign him for 2mil.
I don’t think he’s earned more than that despite how high his ceiling is.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Depends on how long you want him. I’d pony up the extra $500K if it meant another year.
4 years at $2.5MM would be a steal.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s fine, and I can see them doing the standard DW deal of:
2M, 2M, 3M, 3.5M
Or something…
Still, that’s the absolute ceiling I want to spend on a goalie anymore.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
2, 2, 3, 3, would have gotten you 2.5 per year! :)
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
I think mentally I was starting at 1.5 and not 2 2’s.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Haha, that would work too!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Price is a much, much, MUCH more sure thing than anyone we have in the pipeline…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is why I wouldn't mind spending a little extra to get him
As exciting as it is to have Griess, Stalock, Karlsson, Sateri, Sexsmith, etc. to discuss, only Griess has had NHL experience. Mind you, he’s been fairly good. The only thing is, I don’t know how that’ll turn out if he gets a full season to play. Nabby thrives playing the long 70+ game/season kind of way. We haven’t seen Griess to know if he can.
Price is a talented kid (only 22!) and would make sense for the long run. And at at cap hit of around $2.5M (if the signing goes according to plan), he’d be much easier to trade if he does indeed get drowned out by the talent in the pipeline.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Cap hit is way too high.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Vokoun’s a baller though – making 5.7 mil. So talentwise, yeah Vokoun. Value, go with Price.*
*or The Price is Right! /moans
lols
Yeah i’d rather take Price over Bokoun considering we’d have to trade alot more for Vokoun, and we probably wouldn’t have much cap space left to boost our defense with.
Price would be long term, too, and I think Vokun is getting near the end of his peak.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
the pro i see in vokoun is thats hes more likely to show up big NOW. we are pretty much in it to win it next season, not a lot later than that. so for next season vokoun would be better than proce. however the downside is his age, cap hit, and what we’d have to give up to get him. if i knew we would win the cup with either one next year, id take price, but i dont know if he can lead us there next year
Apparently the Wings resigned Lidstrom for 1 more year at around 6 million.
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/06/source_captain_nicklas_lidstro.html
Sharks resigned Tommy Wingels
A center with some good potential.
http://sharks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=530670&navid=DL|SJS|home
Nice, definitely has good potential.
"Obviously I don’t want to be in this position, but this is a good time to come together and raise our middle finger in the air." - Dan Boyle
by TheSoundOfHockey on Jun 1, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I really don't know why they let Zakrisson go
He’s basically the only winger in the system with a good chance of making it to the top 6 and had pretty good point totals in the SEL. The only excuse I can see for this is him simply refusing to sign a contract with SJ.
Yeah they hype him pretty good on eliteprospects.com:
Zackrisson is a very capable two-way center. Plays a very smart game and has impressive hockey sense. A skilled playmaker that also has a decent scoring touch. His technical skills are quite good as well and speed is pretty good.
and his numbers seem pretty good.
I’m sure there is a chance. It’ll depend on what we do with goalies through trade and free agency through the summer. I’d like to think they want to get Stalock some more starting experience in the AHL first, but you never know.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
DW seemed pretty leery of letting that happen in a recent interview on KNBR, but we’ll see what happens in the offseason.
I think we still have a while until anything tangible happens.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Should be on KNBR.com, Razor and Mr. T show.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
FYI they podcast (link) pretty much every guest on KNBR, so you can always find it. I’m going to have to listen to that DW interview myself too…
I know I’d like to see Stalock spend another season in the AHL before we even think about bringing him up…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
The more i think about it the more i agree, i thought he’d be ok as a backup but even that is a bit risky.
I'm leery of Stalock being a backup
after what happened to Greiss this year and Boucher before him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This.
Exactly this. It would be a waste to have him on the bench behind a starter who’s seeing 60+ starts a year.
Besides, Stalock was good this year, but he didn’t exactly blow the doors off the AHL. He could still improve at that level.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn’t he set a shut out record? (maybe I made that up? XD)
It's not that I don't enjoy our nights together." -Drew on rooming with Randy
Well, the situation would be much different, assuming Nabokov wouldn’t be here. I’d assume it would be more of a goalie by comittee sitch.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions
McLellan hasn’t given me hope in this regard yet, I hope I’m wrong.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Except the two years that McLellan has been here, he’s had Nabokov as the clear-cut starting goalie, and Nabby is notorious for not only wanting to play as many games as he possibly can, but putting up good numbers while doing so. Hell, in the year that he should have won the Vezina, he played more games than Marleau did.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
It’s well known that Nabokov dictates his own starts. I don’t think he had any say in how often Nabby started or didn’t start.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 1, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
He's also stated multiple times that Nabby is best when he gets many starts
He likened him to Brodeur in that aspect.. rest does him little good during the regular season.
Nabby’s numbers would support McLellan’s conclusions
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Doesn’t mean it’s sound reasoning. Look at how Broduer fairs in the playoffs as well.
Nearly ever goalie is going to want as many starts as they can possibly get.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I'm not saying that it's good or bad
It’s just the rationale that McLellan uses
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Eh, we have no way of knowing that. And if Price was brought in and did well, why would they start the backup any more?
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
What do you mean? The number of starts they got? I don’t think that’ll be an issue with Nabby gone. Price played less than 50 games last season and Greiss played 16 lol. I don’t think it would be smart to make our starter player for 60 or more games, especially when we have so many quality goalie prospects that deserve a shot.
It hasn’t been smart to do that for years.
Yet here we are talking about it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Off-Topic: If any of you guys are occasional Battle of California readers, we are currently doing a survey of our readers’ favorite and least favorite teams. I normally avoid this kind of self-promotion, but the Ducks are DESTROYING in the early voting as the most favorite team. Please help.
Please leave your votes here in a comment.
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OH, IT'S ON!!!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 1, 2010 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions
IT'S GO TIME!
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Soo...
I say we let the noob goalies fight for thestarter position. Out of the 5 or 6 prospect goalies we have there has to be at least one gem. We use the extra money to resign the important people, i.e marleau and pavs, and then some solid dmen.
Oh and when does owen nolan come back? Seriously tho.
by Madhatter on Jun 1, 2010 3:44 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Personally, I see this as one of the most important off-seasons for the Sharks
We’ve got key guys signed (Thornton, Heatley, Boyle, etc.), but we also have a lot of opportunities to cut ties or resign players (Marleau, Pavelski, Setoguchi, Nabokov, etc.).
Unfortunately, I think we need improvements for forwards, defensemen, and goalies. As interesting as it is to discuss the potential for goalies, I think the defensive and offensive aspect need to be focused on as well.
Nabokov didn’t lose us the Chicago series. Sure, he gave up bad goals, but the lack of offensive ultimately killed us. I think a few line changes (like moving Marleau to the second like to utilize his speed) could make the difference. Guys like Ferriero, Mitchell, McGinn, and McLaren have shown potential, but I’m hoping they reach those levels we’ve come to expect fairly soon.
Defensively, I think additions are extremely important. I see Blake retiring, which leaves our “veteran” defensemen as Boyle, Huskins, and Vlasic (maybe Murray). Demers spent a lot of time up and down last year. I’d like to see an addition in a young, skilled defensemen (like Hamhuis or Michalek).
It’s going to be a tough off season for DW. He’s going to have to deal with the goaltending situation, sign a defenseman or two, and determine who to resign or let walk. I’m honestly really looking forward to it.. even though I have a feeling that some of my favorite players are going to be wearing other jerseys next season
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
I think the “lack of offense” stemmed more from a lack of good puck movement by our defense. Chicago had 4 dmen who could make good breakout passes. The Sharks had somewhere between 1 and 3 depending on the situation they were in. As a result, you could never really get a good setup in the zone and the timing on the forecheck was off leading to the Chicago dmen having a good deal more time to get the puck out of trouble. As for goalies, I don’t think anyone is blaming Nabby, it’s just that the money to improve the defense has to come from somewhere, and right now the only place it seems like the Sharks can cut is in goal.
Doherty and Viedensky
Sweet!
"Obviously I don’t want to be in this position, but this is a good time to come together and raise our middle finger in the air." - Dan Boyle
by TheSoundOfHockey on Jun 1, 2010 4:54 PM PDT reply actions
Ok.
price is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Deslauriers…when I went to an Oilers game, that guy was like swiss cheese…i know it’s w/ an Oilers team, but still. Price/Ellis are MUCH better. Just saying :)
Go Sharks!
From what i hear, Deslauriers’ biggest issue is that he plays too deep in the net; but playing for a team like Edmonton would make any goaltender sit deep in their net.
I hear everything you're saying
But…he was just too bad, and seeing our inconsistent (at least as of now…) defense, we can’t take a risk w/ him. Therefore, Price and Ellis come into play.
Go Sharks!
Blah, I think he’d be great on the Sharks, but whaaaatevs.
I’ve liked Carey Price for a while now and i’d love to have him on the Sharks. I just don’t think we should trade Ryane Clowe to get him. There’s gotta be a better deal we can make to get Montreals backup goaltender. I know it’d be nice to dump Clowe’s cap hit but he actually has some value on the open market, value that we should put to use. I think he would be put to better use as the centerpiece of a big deal for a quality defensemen or forward (IGINLA! lol).
We don’t need any more cap hit tied up in forwards, and giving away that much for one year of Kaberle is a bit much. Assuming no dman is traded away leaves, we currently have Boyle-Murray, Vlasic-?, Huskins-Demers. We need someone who is both somewhat physical (not necessarily as much as Blake but at least at Boyle and playoff Vlasic’s level and has some puck skills. Kaberle fits the 2nd one, but his defense is not as good as Boyle’s IMO, I’d rather get Hamhuis. That’s also way too much for Kaberle, even if we were to get him I’d do Clowe+Heemskerk+5th at the most.
I agree he’s a bit of a tweener. A good deal better than your average bottom pairing guys, but not really mobile enough to be a complete shutdown dman. I’m just not sure if we can afford anyone better at the moment. A Boyle-Kaberle or Vlasic-Kaberle pairing would get eaten alive by physical forwards.
Thats not fair
Why’d you all start the rosterbating without me?
by SanJoseLandShark on Jun 1, 2010 6:18 PM PDT reply actions
My birthday!
Also, at noon ET. So at 9am pacific, the insanity starts.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
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