RFA of the Day: Devin Setoguchi
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 3:00 AM PDT
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PrintAlthough much of the focus this offseason will be on RFA Joe Pavelski and UFA's Patrick Marleau and Evgeni Nabokov, there's one player who needs to sign with the San Jose Sharks in order for them to maintain their spot among the league's elite teams. Devin Setoguchi.
Look, it's no secret I'm a fan of the Taber, Alberta native. I've come to his defense multiple times over the past two years when others were ready to ship him off for any defenseman with a pulse. Devin Setoguchi is an integral member of this team; someone who will be relied on next year to not only provide offense but to also improve his play in the defensive zone. With the real possibility of Marleau and Malhotra exploring other opportunities, there's a chance that Setoguchi will be counted on to provide more than just points. Like Milan Michalek before him, there's a real chance that Setoguchi will be leaned upon next year to carry a portion of the team's defensive responsibilities.
That's an unknown, though, unlike #16's offensive prowess. Setoguchi's skill has never been the issue. After scoring 11 goals in 44 games in his first year (2007-2008) Setoguchi found himself placed on the team's first line with Thornton and Marleau to start the 2008-2009 season. The increased pressure and minutes didn't seem to affect him in the slightest, as he posted a 30 goal season in just his second NHL year. Although he had a rough playoffs that year (2 points in 6 GP), Setoguchi once again found himself on the top line to start this past season, this time playing with Thornton and Heatley. It's arguable that Setoguchi was the hottest Shark to start 2009-2010; his 7 goals in 11 games hinted to another strong season for the young forward. However, a leg injury shortened his season and affected him for a good portion of the campaign. Even after he returned, he toiled on the lower lines until he found his skating stride again. Because of this, Setoguchi took what many believed to be a step backwards: 36 points in 70 games was seen as a real disappointment.
However, when you really look at Setoguchi's season, you see that the talent didn't change. Without the injury and subsequent time spent playing with the Jody Shelley's and Brad Staubitz's of the world, it's not out of the realm of possibility that he scores 30 goals for the second time in his career.
But he didn't, and that's a good thing for San Jose.
If Setoguchi continued to build statistically on his 2008-2009 season, he likely would have attracted offers akin to the one Phil Kessel received from Toronto. The fact that Setoguchi had a poor year (again, statistically) due to injury, means that he's likely going to sign for much less than he's actually worth.
Now, his playoff season (9 points in 15 games) might have increased his value a bit. But if a player with Setoguchi's skill set and potential were to hit the open market at this point in his career (he's just 23), he's likely to get a contract representing a cap hit of around $4MM. The fact that the Sharks can lock him up for under that is almost criminal. He's improved vastly in all aspects of his game from his rookie year, and it's not unreasonable to expect that he'll score 30 or more goals next season regardless of whose line he plays on.
I've detailed Setoguchi's skill set in the past (here), but let me reiterate quickly. Of all the current Sharks (the 2009-2010 version), he's probably the second best skater on the team (behind Patrick Marleau). He has an amazing wrist shot and possesses the ability to score from anywhere in the offensive zone. He's also one of the best forecheckers on the team; although he does tend to go for broke with the hits, he's one of the few players who is consistently in the opposition's zone, chasing the puck.
Talent aside, he's also one of the few young players that the Sharks have left. At just 23, Doug Wilson can't afford to just let the former eighth overall pick walk away, even if the team receives compensatory picks. Setoguchi isn't just a star of the present, but he's likely a star of the long-term future as well.
Wilson established the market value for his RFA forwards with Ryane Clowe's recent contract. Although that deal may look bad in hindsight, it gave Wilson a bar that he could use to negotiate with Setoguchi. For a player who will likely see first line minutes next year, a cap hit of $3.6MM is beautiful.
TCY's Final Offer: 4 years @ $14.4MM ($3.6MM cap hit)
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He’s still got fuck tons of potential; but i think we can take advantage of his poor season and sign him for a little cheaper. 3.2 million seems doable, and a great deal for the Sharks.
I like 3.4-3.6, myself
Again, the off year hurts his bargaining position, but his upside is gigantic. Good thing East GMs don’t stay up to watch the West’s games, or they’d realize they could steal a great player for some picks.
Just read something on Yahoo, saying Marleau is looking for something in the $7 million range…he’s listed as their number 2 free agent, behind Kovy. Linky, if it works.
I’m unfamiliar with the author of that piece for Yahoo, Sam McCaig, so I don’t know if he has inside sources, but he seems very confident in saying “he’s looking for a mega-deal ($7 million per season) and will likely swim away.”
Do we really think the Sharks would give Marleau $7 million? I’ve felt pretty sure all along that he’d be back for no more than $6-6.5 million per, but this makes things kind of tricky. And if Marleau does leave (and if he does, hopefully it’s a quick break so Wilson can possibly dip into those free agent waters he abhors), I can only hope there’s some replacement—be it Lombardi or Stempniak or Cullen or maybe Torres.
Just read something on Yahoo, saying Marleau is looking for something in the $7 million range…
This is where I’ve expected him to come in all along. Sadly, that probably means he walks…the Sharks can’t afford another 7+ mil player on their roster right now.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Marleau to the Kings for $7M
Frolov to us for $4-$5M?
We can has?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I’m not as familiar with Frolov…do we want him?
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I only know him from the few times we see him, plus what Kings fans say
My impression of him is that he’s a Patrick Sharp type player.
And by that, I mean that he’s a cheaper top line wing option for us.
He probably doesn’t have Marleau’s defensive prowess, but playing with Joe and Heater, he seems like he could be a consistent 30 goal 60 point sort of guy. Plus he’s 27. Which is largely what I think of Patrick Sharp.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Hmm, I do like Patrick Sharp...
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, I'd rather have Sharpie himself
than a “Sharpie-like” player
by Chicago Shark on Jun 17, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Why not have both!
Larger point is that everyone is going to be after Sharp, Martin, Hamhuis, Hjalmmarson, Price, Ellis and all the other guys we want. Never hurts to have alternatives.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
But we’re the MOTHERFUCKING SHARKS!!! Everyone wants to play here for an enormous discount, right???
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
YOUR SARCASM IS NOT APPRECIATED
Don’t even act like the Sharks don’t rock! Players really would rather play here than a lot of other places.
Either you pronounce your name "Bufflin"
Or we’ll trade you to Edmonton!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Shit, really? Not that he isn’t worth it, but… well…
we need to keep that guy around
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Do other GMs really weigh this past season that heavily in determining value? I mean, his injury was public knowledge. I’m sure the Sens still had Cheechoo’s RR season in the back of their minds when they made the Heatley trade. Granted, they also got Michalek, but nevertheless, they overvalued Cheechoo in my opinion. Maybe not the best analogy because Ottawa was in somewhat of a bind to move Heatley, and a trade situation probably has slightly different dynamics than courting an RFA.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
by OtherKid on Jun 17, 2010 7:19 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I think this last season is an odd situation, because the injury affected him in ways many GM’s wouldn’t notice unless they were intently watching the games. As I said above, the injury hampered him for about 10-15 games after he returned, and he was playing on the lower lines.
When you look at his season, you see that he missed ~10 games due to injury, when he missed more like 20. That’s really only something people who watch this team would know immediately.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Lock him up
Aside from all his talent, he’s got grit and if SJ locks him up now it’ll open up room down the road.
I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that, oh crap I quit drinking.
Seto may have all the talent in the world, but he lacks hockey sense. A guy with his talent make up should be killing penalties, but he doesn’t because he does not have the smarts a coach can rely on. He also could score a ton of goals but wont because he does not support the puck and he cannot carry the play like some other players with equal talent. His success will depend heavily on playing with smart centers who can dictate play. I love the guy and he needs to smarten up to be worth a big contract!
23.
Years.
Old.
And he’s not a “controll the puck” type of player, and I don’t often see him make a bad play, really. He’s caught out of position defensively at times, but he shouldn’t be counted on to kill penalties just because he’s fast. That’s not how it works.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree he is not really a control the puck type of player, but he can carry the play by using speed and supporting the puck better in all three zones. A player can carry the play by simply providing his linemates with options and using their skills to provide space. I feel he often puts himself out of the play because he does not do those things.
I actually do not have much of an issue with his D coverage but more with is decisions on the back check and staying high when his linemates are down low.
I agree, just because he is fast doesn’t mean he should be on the PK. However when he is almost never used considering he has all the skills of a good PKer, shows me that he does not have the smarts. Todd must not be adverse to using his top players on the PK because he uses JT, PM, JP, DH, so why not DS?
Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy, and I do believe he has a bunch of potential, I just think a 4 mil a year guy should either score a bunch of goals or be a guy that can play in all situations. I just dont think he has done either with any consistency to earn a big payday.
Love the site and the insight!
A 30 goal player (which he is) deserves a ~$3.6MM contract. I think Seto has improved every year since being called up and is a player this team will rely on for offense next year.
And in my opinion, Seto does use his speed and size to create opportunities; he’s better at finding open space to shoot than most of the other players on the team. He might not be great in transition, but no one on the top two lines (besides Pavelski and Marleau) are conistently good in those areas you mentioned. I assume it’s something he works on next year.
I’m paying a little bit based on potential, but if he scores even 100 goals over the next four years his contract will be a steal. He’s a far better value than Clowe.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Good points! I hope he does work on those areas because I do agree he has the potential. Yes a 30 goal scorer does deserve 3.6, I just think another 30 goal year would be the foundation needed to justify those funds, but of course he us up for a contract now.
Clowe brings a whole different kind of value to the team and whether it is higher or lower is a tough debate because both are needed IMO.
Since when are offense only guys not given big contracts? Heatley never played PK until he got to SJ as far as I know and he pulled in a 7.5M salary. Very few big scoring forwards play PK. I don’t think Kovulchuk does much either, or Kane or Gaborik. 30 goal scorers aren’t exactly plentiful in this league.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
With Seto’s size, he as the potential to become a very good two-way player too.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
by sharks in oc on Jun 17, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, however one 30 goal season does not put him in with those dudes. If he can pull that off year after year than the contract will be great for the team. I would just like to see some more consistency and for him to improve in other areas of the game. Those other players make their line mates better by creating opportunities and moving the puck well, and I just don’t feel that Seto does that very well to compliment his game.
Yeah I agree, although like TCY said he’s only 23 and a lot of that is stuff that i’m sure he’ll be working to improve next year.
I agree though that 3.6 million seems like a little much for a guy who on paper (i tottttaaally don’t think this, i’m just sayin) could be another Cheechoo. Yeah he had a great season in 2008 playing along side Joe Thornton, just as Cheechoo did with Jumbo, but then he got injured this season and his production dropped way off similar to Cheechoo’s production dropping off after a few injuries he sustained.
Does DW really want to sign Seto to a big contract like he did with Cheechoo based mostly on 1 great season he had a year ago alongside Joe Thornton?
I’m just kind of playing devils advocate, but i really hope he that it doesn’t take 3.5+ million, and i don’t think it will anyways.All season long the coaches have basically talked about how Seto isn’t living up to his potential. Whenever Seto had a great game you’d hear quotes from the coaches to the media about wanting to sit Seto down so that he could watch himself play, implying his extreme inconsistency. Hopefully he’s heard enough stuff like that for him not to have the balls to sit down with DW and ask for 4 million or something. Seto seems like the kind of guy who would accept a low offer if given to him because he probably agree that he’s not playing his best; but unfortunately DW doesn’t seem like the type of GM to low-ball a returning Shark player that he wants to keep.
I agree that Seto is a huge key to this offseason. There isn’t really a young guy on the Sharks that has his kind of offensive potential. I really feel he is on the cusp of having a breakout season offensively. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he netted 35-40 goals next year.
I feel like if Marleau does decide to walk, Seto could eventually fill his shoes on this team.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
I would like to keep Setoguchi on the team
But we also want Pavelski here as well. Not to mention Patrick Marleau. There’s a good chance we may lose one or two of our key players.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Nabokov’s contract frees up a bit of space for that, assuming he doesn’t come back.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m assuming that player won’t be paid more than $3MM.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, I hope the Office can figure everything out
I don’t want to lose our key players. I really don’t.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Doug Wilson has a unique opportunity to improve the team this year… I don’t think he wastes it.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope not
I need to see at least one of my favorite teams get better.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
I suspect we do lose one...
And that one will be Patty. Seto and Pavs will both be back, with nice, shiny, new contracts. Marleau, though, will probably be too rich for our blood. We’ll see, though.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I think we’d me more likely to see a frontloaded contract…but it doesn’t matter. The cap hit is even as the average of his pay over the length of the contract. And if he’s expecting to make 7 mil a year for a long time, well, it’ll be really hard to get the cap hit down without screwing us down the line.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
See: Hossa, Marian
Good luck giving the man $7M without actually giving him $7M.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I’m hoping we keep him, and I’m sure we will.
I’m also hoping Seto won’t sign another “Matt Carle” or “Milan Michalek” type of contract that would get him on a trading block the first time he’s not scoring 30+ goals a season.
DW tends to overpay his young players.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
IMO, Setoguchi is really one of the first that deserves it.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d love it if Wilson got Pavelski and Setoguchi inked to new deals before July 1, just to have that internal budget a little more set, but I doubt that will happen. But even so, I don’t expect a ton of haggling, so maybe even without signed contracts Wilson will have a great idea of where the cap hit will fall for these guys once he gets around to signing them.
We’ll have more on this later, but DW tends to wait pretty long to sign his RFA’s. A July 1st signing is not guaranteed.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions
But that doesn’t always matter, since he never signs UFAs on July 1 anyways.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
We could also argue that Michalek and Carle deserved it too – especially Carle who had an outstanding rookie season. Milan always had the potential, but it’s his fragile legs that did not help.
Either way, large contracts mean large expectations and DW is not the patient kind, it seems. Not when the team’s goal is to win now.
But seeing the kind of post-season Seto had – I agree. We need to keep it at all costs.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
I dunno, Michalek and Cheechoo had just as much reason, if not more, to be signed to be potential based contracts than Seto does now imo. Cheechoo was coming off his Rocket Richard season before he signed his contract i believe, and Michalek was a 22 year old who scored 26 goals 66 points right before signing his contract. Seto on the other hand just had a huge dropoff and only scored 36 points this season, almost half as much as his previous year.
Once again i’m playing devils advocate with the assumption that Seto wont become a great player who’s easily worth 3.5+ million, but these are things that can/should be used to sign Seto at a lower cap hit.
I think that Seto’s ceiling is much higher then Cheechoo’s when he signed his deal even coming off the Richard trophy.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
But dude…Cheecho had just scored 56 goals and won the Rocket Richard at (i think) 24 years old. That’s insaaaane. Seto isn’t on that level.
God i still can’t believe how much he regressed. I wonder if he were back on the Sharks (for super cheap) if he would still be able to muster up 20 goals…
Neither was Cheechoo
It still amazes me.
A guy who can barely skate, doing so well.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
Thats what I mean, if you look at the things Seto does well compared to Cheechoo I think Seto has more upside. Yes 56 Goals is insane but it was an anomaly, of course hindsight is 20/20 but I think to give up on him after one bad season would be a huge mistake.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Seto won me over in the playoffs
I’m a big advocate of lines staying together to build chemistry. As a unit, Pavelski, Setoguchi and Clowe are awesome. I see nothing but good things in keeping them together.
I’ve had concerns about Seto, mainly that he sometimes tends to vanish and not move well off the puck, but your overriding argument about the fact that he’s 23 tends to nullify that particular quibble. One would assume that at that age, Seto is still eminently coachable.
That begs the question of Todd McLellan is the man for that particular job, but that’s a whole ‘nother can of worms, and let’s assume for the moment that he is.
I like the cap hit, I like the term, I like the fact that we’re keeping him in Teal during some formative years in his career, and hoping he builds some hometown loyalty, because I thought I read some impressions last season or two seasons ago that people didn’t seem to think Seto cared too much for San Jose and would probably jump for a big money contract. That’s probably in the realm of pure speculation, but it never hurts to seduce 30 goal scorers with sunshine and good tacos.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Sunshine and good tacos!
Forget playing for the greatest team in the league. If I was a thirty goal scorer I’d come to San Jose just for the “sunshine and good tacos!”
3.6 for 4 years sounds about right to me...
Dude is a sniper, he’s pretty fast, and he really can be a pest on the forecheck. He’s also, as has been pointed out by you repeatedly in these comments, only 23 years old. That’s so huge! So young, that you can reasonably assume he still has some improvement left in him. This kid needs to be in San Jose for a while…lock him up!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:25 AM PDT reply actions
Setoguchi's fine and all....
but re-sign Owen Nolan! :P
BUSTER OR BUST!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I am completely in agreement with resigning Seto
We have to be better at developing talent and keeping it in the system.
There is no better way to instill confidence than showing Pavs and Seto that they are valued by the team, and we want them around.
Having said that, I would like to see Seto improve the mental side of his game. Injuries aside, there are times when he doesnt work as hard as he could.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
The season before he finally stuck with the big club, Ron Wilson had an interesting comment
I think it was something to the extent of “He needs to cut the AHL moments out of his game.” I think Jamie Baker broke that comment down and said Seto needs to be constantly thinking about what he can do. You can afford to take a few seconds off in the minors. Not in the pros. Seto stuck with the team when Ron Wilson believed he was mostly over that. It’s still a problem at times. And it seemed to be most notable when he returned from injury. But during the playoffs, I never saw one trace of it. The game is coming together for Seto between the ears, and that’s the reason I think he deserves a contract.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Exactly!
During the playoffs, he gave us a glimpse of the player he can be when he’s constantly working and playing at a high level. And I like that player very much.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions
He was a bat out of hell this postseason. But I wonder if he consistently brings that type of gameplay over the 82 game regular season… Hopefully if he keeps playing with Pavs + Clowe?, he’ll keep up this aspect of his game.
I’m on board with locking him up to see if it happens.
NIGHTMARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Dan Ellis
I'm all for re-signing Seto...
But it better be with Marleau. I can’t believe anyone is talking about giving Nabby a new contract before the face of the franchise is signed. Marleau should live and die as in teal. He was probably the regular season MVP for the Sharks and after all the shit he’s gotten over the past couple years it’s about time we (the fans, the Sharks, the NHL) showed the man some respect and loyalty,
I'll show him respect and loyalty
Just not more money than about $5.5M, which is far less than he’s worth, but far more than we can afford.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
lol cmon now, Marleau is an amazing player and we can definitely afford more than that if necessary. His cap hit was 6.3 million last year, how could you not at least match that?
Although i think we should sign him to a Hossa contract with a similar cap hit of 5 to 5.3 million.
We can not afford $6.3 because:
1.) We need a #1 or #2 Dman to partner Vlasic.
2.) We need to give Seto and Pavs raises.
3.) We need goaltending.
We get $9M from Nabby and Blake. Assume $3M goes to goaltending, and about $5M-$6M goes to Pavs and Seto.
That basically leaves Marleau’s old cap hit for a new big time D man. We have to get cheaper at the wing if we’re going to get stronger at the back.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Bam
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / * Patrick Marleau ($6.300m)
Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m) / * Joe Pavelski ($4.500m) / * Raffi Torres ($2.000m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / * Scott Nichol ($0.800m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / * Paul Martin ($4.000m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / * Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.000m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
Jeff-Drouin Deslauriers ($1.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 21; CAP:$58.8m; PAYROLL: $59.358m; CAP ROOM: $0.372m BONUSES: $0.930m
I dunno if Paul Martin will be gettable for 4 million, or at all, but you could easily trade him out for Zbynek Michalek or someone.
At least that’s a more realistic cap hit for Marleau. The forward lines look pretty much exactly the same as last season. Martin at an even 4 is probably a stretch, Hjalmarsson would be sexy, and 3 million would be the most I’d be willing to offer on an offer sheet for him…and you’re assuming what for Clowe and Huskins, someone just takes them off our hands for draft picks?
I want no part of that goalie tandem, though…that is ugly.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
With defense like that the goaltending won’t be that big an issue. Deslauriers is a young 6’4" butterfly goaltender who’s maintained above a .900 SV% with the worst team in the league. I also though greiss has looked really good considering the random starts he’s gotten and poor defensive corps in front of him.
Worst case scenario, if Deslauriers doesn’t work out for us he’ll still make a good backup goaltender.
Size isn’t everything (see Luongo, Roberto). And Deslauriers hasn’t proven to be anything better than mediocre. Using Edmondton as an excuse only goes so far…but ever stop to think that maybe he was part of the problem instead of a casualty?
I’d much rather see Ellis in at 2 million (which I think is a reasonable cap hit for him).
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Well i guess it depends on Ellis’s price. Everyone seems to think he’ll be going for 2.5 million or so, in which case i’d rather sign a guy like JDD.
2 million and 2.5 million aren’t huge differences. I heard analysts recently talking about Ellis as the 1 million dollar alternative to goalies like Nabby and Turco…which seemed low. But it brought my Ellis expectations down a bit. I’d still be willing to do 2.5 for him, but I think we can get him for an even 2.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
1.5 million is a lot of cap space, which is why i like JDD over Ellis at 2.5. Ellis at 2 million makes it a tougher decision though for me.
Yeah, see, I want no part of JDD at all…so it really comes down to how much I’m willing to spend on Ellis at that point…2-2.5 seems about right.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I could understand not liking JDD, but I don’t see how Ellis is worth 2.5 million to us. At this point i’ve conceded that we probably aren’t going to be able to sign a good goaltender, so we might as well try to get the cheapest possible serviceable goaltender who can take 50 starts so that we can to boost our defense to give Greiss as much help as possible.
Although I personally still think JDD has the potential to be a very good goaltender, but that doesn’t even really figure into my reasoning.
Cheapest is not the same as best
In spite of the fact that this whole line of discussion begins and ends with the fact that we can’t afford to pay Evgeni Nabokov what he’s worth.
Fact of the matter is, we’ve had the luxury of a very good netminder for the past decade, with decidedly less than average defensive corps. We are now aiming for a very elite d-corp. Simply putting a warm body in net is not the smartest idea.
To me, JDD is simply a warm body. And Thomas Greiss is slightly better than a warm body. Frankly, both are unproven.
If you want to have serious Stanley Cup aspirations, you can’t have 2 unproven goaltenders.
Cristobal Huet is probably not worth his contract, but you know he’s at least modestly reliable. If Niemi went down to injury in the post season, I don’t think they would have felt bad at all about putting Huet in and still would have considered themselves the best team in the league.
If Nabby went down, we would not have felt the same way.
If you are trying to give an unproved netminder a fair look (Greiss or JDD), you need to have a dependable backup.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Stated better than I could ever hope to. My thought’s exactly.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t see how Ellis is much more than a warm body too though.
Honestly the likelihood of resigning Nabby is become greater and greater imo.
50 wins and 99 career starts
Make him a bit better than a warm body. He almost has as many wins as JDD has games.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Also, he has 3 seasons in the NHL under his belt, with a floor of an NHL average goalie (according to his stats) and has shown, at least one season, that he could be well above average with consistant starting time (it’s so hard for a goalie to not get consistant starts and put up awesome numbers). I’d say that’s better than a warm body, for sure!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes he’s played for 3 NHL seasons and he’s played for a great team, that doesn’t mean he would be a good starting goaltender. He’s just not someone i want to have as our starter in the playoffs; and if he’s not our starter then what’s the point of spending anything over a million on him?
In what world are the Preds a great team over the last 3 years?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Jun 17, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Have the Oilers even made the playoffs since the lockout? I don’t think so. So compared to the Oilers the Predators are an amazing team.
Yes, The Oilers have made the playoffs since the lockout and have gone further than the Sharks ever have, much much further than the Preds.
I’m curious how you could forget the Oilers beating the Sharks in 6 games in 2006. They barely missed the playoffs last year, and only this year, due to the most amount of man games lost due to injury, finished dead last.
Most pundits picked the Oilers to finish higher than the Preds this season.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The Preds didn’t make it last year, and barely scraped in the year before.
Clearly a great team, cause you know, only the top half of teams make the playoffs in a given year so you have to be cream of the crop.
It’s good to know the Wild are also a “great” team. They made the playoffs most years too.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Like i said, they’re a great team defensively. When you have guys like Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, Grebeshkov, and Hamhuis in front of you it’s easy to get some good goal tending stats.
IIRC, Ellis stole the starting goaltender job away from the previous Nashville goalie. And then Rinne did the same to him the very next season, which explains why he’s available. Ellis does have the ability to be a starter, so much so that he can steal away a starting job from a more experienced goalie, and he also is used to playing in a platoon system where the younger guy might get more starts.
Yes, it means that Ellis isn’t as good as Rinne, but Rinne almost won a Calder, and he’s going to be the starter in Nashville for a long time. Ellis is good enough and experienced enough to be a stop gap starting goalie (a la Steve Shields) without costing very much.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I dunno if you can say that he really stole the starter position, Mason played terribly and had below a .900 SV%. Ellis played well over the 23 games he played and so they made Ellis their starter since he was younger and cheaper.
I thought Ellis stole it from Vokoun, no?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Mason stole it from Vokoun, I believe.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
2 quibbles
1. Raffi Torres is not the answer. For anyone. He’s Sean Avery without the off-ice drama-queen issues. He’s a third liner cast as a second liner.
2. $1.55M for netminding? If we have to pull Greiss because a night’s going bad, you put in J-D D? Vice versa?
Patrick Marleau’s cap hit is best served spread amongst the lineup. Especially in net. And it’ll likely cost more for your proposed defensive additions. But as for a starting 6 D, that’s very very sexy.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Patrick Marleau’s cap hit is best served spread amongst the lineup.
I agree. It is best served across the lineup because we have scorers (Heatley is a 40+ guy, Seto should be a 30+ guy, Thornton is a 20 goal, 80 assist guy), and we have two way players (notably Pavelski). Marleau is awesome, but he’d be a luxery on a lineup that has too many other holes, IMO.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
If the cost of icing those 6 d-men is Patrick Marleau, I’d say it’s very cheaply had. Sign me up!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Yeah, if we can ice the blueline Khaaz put up there, I’d be pretty giddy…even at the expense of Marleau.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly expect Marleau will be signed to a Hossa type contract though anyways. I think it just makes too much sense not to do it.
Also I see Marleau as being more of the meat and potatoes of our offense, rather than just a luxury. He was much more effective than Heatley was this season imo, not counting the postseason where he had a groin injury.
I’d say Marleau and Heatley were both pretty equal on offensive impact. It’s on defense where Marleau passes Heatley. But with a better blueline, a (hopefully) resigned Malhotra, and Pavelski back, it should be covered.
And you know my thoughts on the Hossa kind of contract, so we don’t need to rehash all that.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah i meant that i think Marleau is worth more to our team than Heatley is, which is what makes me think of him as more of a necessary part of our team rather than just a luxury boost in scoring. (which is more of how consider heatley.)
I think we need to hang onto Marleau. If we need more cap space then we should try and find other ways to free some up.
Does Heatley still have a NTC or is it gone now after he was traded?
I think Heatley’s NTC is gone since he waived it to come here.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
LOL, Heatley’s not going anywhere…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Not yet, anyways…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading Heatley seems much smarter for the team than letting Marleau walk. We’d free up far more cap space and we’d get some good shit back in the trade rather than Marleau just walking away with us getting nothing in return.
but yeah, i can’t really see them trading Heatley so soon.
but really, Marleau has shown to be about equal to Heatley offensively and he’s far better defensively and far better on special teams.
If i had to pick one or the other i’d pick Marleau. Then add on top of the pieces we’d get in a trade, and extra the cap space we’ve freed up…it doesn’t make sense to let Marleau walk when we can trade Heatley really.
Heatley was a 50 goal scorer without Joe Thornton
Marleau has never hit that particular milestone.
Yes, if you can trade Dany Heatley, the money discussion is all moot, but I have no idea why we’d trade Heatley after making such a huge organizational commitment to acquiring him. We essentially traded Cheech, Michalek, Ehrhoff and Lukowich for him.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
^ That's the main reason I don't see us trading him.
That and he had one season with the team and one postseason in which he was injured. I think saying “trade Heatley” is a little too reactionary.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s not about trading Heatley, it’s about keeping an equally skilled player in Patrick Marleau, saving cap space, and getting some good shit in return.
I love Patty to death, do not get me wrong.
But he is not as skilled as Heatley offensively, at least. He is faster and a much better defensive player, but Heatley (as has been said many times in this thread) is a pure goal scorer. And there are about 7.5 million reasons why we couldn’t get some “good shit” in return.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You are a team that needs a pure scorer and have the cap hit to add one, do you a) trade assets for Heatley, or b) just sign Kovalchuk and keep your assets?
I know which one I’d do if I was a GM…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Well for one, Kovalchuck is likely going to have much higher cap hit than Heatley, but more importantly, there’s only one Kovalchuk out there on the market.
I highly doubt Kovy will make much over 7.5 in the NHL, 8 mill tops. He is only going to get 8 million a year plus is in the KHL.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. I don’t see him getting more than 8 million. And I also don’t see more than one team out there who can afford that kind of cap hit and needs a guy like Kovy or Heater, LA.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Marleau's a better skater, and better stickhandler
heatley parks in front of the net. He’s a garbage man. That’s not a bad thing, especially since he’s proven to be one of the best in the league. Heatley picks up everyone else’s mess and buries the leftovers. marleau does a lot more positioning-wise, and his skating is probably one of his most underrated assets.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
It does make sense when you consider that Heatley is a well known pure goal scorer…something Marleau is not (I’m not saying he’s bad at it…but he’s no Heatley in that category). Dude has scored 50 goals more than once. This team needs players like that who can finish…and he’s come a long way in just this one season in working on the other aspects of his game, too.
Him and Thornton were pretty dangerous on the PK because they were always a threat to go the other way and score. And Heatley was pretty good at getting into shooting lanes when he needed to.
And we gave up quite a bit to fit him under the cap and get him here…so he’s not leaving anywyas, lol.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Well Marleau has looked like more a finisher this past season. A lot of heatleys goals were just easy one timers, tap-ins, and deflections that a much cheaper guy could probably do.
Although arguing who’s better isn’t even the point really. The point is that we could get a lot back for Heatley, and we’d free up much more cap space than if we let Marleau just walk away.
We could pretty much get anyone we want in a trade for Heatley. Pick your favorite top pairing defensemen with a low cap hit and he could probably be ous lol. Meanwhile we keep one of our faster skater, our leading goalscorer, one of our best special teams players, and a guy who can play pretty much any position.
It really is the smarter decision. Who cares what we did in the past to get Heatley (although i wouldn’t put Lukowich, Cheechoo, or Michalek back on the team with the same cap hits anyways). What’s done is done and sometimes you have to make tough decision to do what’s best for the organization. What happened to throwing respect and loyalties out the window?
We could pretty much get anyone we want in a trade for Heatley.
I highly, HIGHLY doubt that. His salary will prevent most teams in the league for trading low cap hit assets for him. And the few that would want him wouldn’t want to give up anything tangible, as it would be a trade to win now. So, no, you cannot get equal value in a trade of Heatley.
And there’s no such thing as an easy one-timer…just ask Ehrhoff. If you’re discounting his one main skill (sniping) as “something anyone can do,” then why aren’t more people doing it? And as for the tip ins and deflections…we’d love a cheaper guy to do it…his name is Clowe. That hasn’t worked out. Goals are goals, and Heatley has a knack for getting them.
Trading away Heatley is in no way a smart decision right now.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Well i’m sure his cap hit is a lot lower than what Kovalchuks would be, and there still seems to be a lot of interest in him.
Most of his goals this season WERE easy one timers though. Heatleys a great player and i’m not saying anyone could do what he can do, i’m just saying that we can likely get someone to do what he DID this last season.
Heatley is a talented player with some serious skills but I don’t think he really used them very much this season, and i think we could get someone to fill his role just as easily (or not so easily) as we can get someone to fill Marleau’s role.
The bottom line is that we get something back for Heatley while we get nothing for letting Marleau walk.
Heatley has the ability to be where those easy goals are. That’s not an easy task. Somehow he shakes defenders, gets into position, fights off crosschecks and defensive stick lifting, mucks it out and gets the goals.
He does it well and he does it consistently. Not anybody can do that. If they could there would be a lot more 50 goal scorers out there.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think we might be giving him a little too much credit for being one of those “net presence” guys. He’s really more a sniper although he’s done pretty well in front of the net this season.
Go back and look at his highlights on his 50 goal seasons from Ottawa.
That’s how he scores a majority of his goals, being where he needs to be to clean up the trash or great one timers. Neither of these things are easy to do as evidenced by the complete lack of 50 goal scorers in the league.
The dude has earned the credit we give him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He’s usually off to the side of the net by one of the circles but I guess you didn’t specifically say that he sits in front of the net which is what i took from your post for some reason.
I’m not saying he isn’t a great player though. To reiterate the “bottom line” from my earlier post, rather than just letting Marleau walk we would be able to get something back for Heatley, and we’d give ourselves much more cap space to work with next season.
I don’t see how you get much more cap space. Your going to have to get nearly equivilent salary back as most teams aren’t going to be able to just give you picks or prospects for him, especially any team that would really want him. It’s not like a young rebuilding team wants to add Heater. So you move him and get a Michalek and Cheechoo type player, maybe a prospect thrown in.
I look at teams that trade away big players and unless they’re rebuilding I never see them get the better end of it. Look at Phaneuf to Toronto, Heatley to SJ, Pronger to Philly, Thornton to SJ, etc. The big name player is always going to the team that is perceived as the winner… Except maybe Kessel, but that was a different situation.
What I’m trying to say is trading Heatley doesn’t make it any easier to sign Patty and there is no guarantee he’ll be significantly cheaper. There is no reason to believe he’d ask for less than 7 or 7.5 anyway.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Finishers go to the net.
Going to the net is the hallmark of a player you should be paying big bucks to.
For years, we’ve had a roster full of “cheaper” players and none of them put up Heater’s numbers.
And I don’t think Chicago is about to part with Duncan Keith for Heatley. I think the trade returns for him would be a lot slimmer than you’d think.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
We could easily get a guy like Robyn Regeher. I dunno, i got a headache and i don’t want ot think about possible defensemen we could trade for but we could definitely get someone that would be very useful to our team.
I think the only realistic trade proposal I’ve heard for Heatley is one you brought up: Heatley for Iginla, straight up. The salaries are close. Calgary is in no shape to be adding salary to their team.
And to me, that is a sideways move. Although I do like Iginla…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t even get me going again dreamin about Iginla lol.
I’m sure teams would make some cap space for a guy like Heatley. If we get anything, it’ll be a better deal than not trading him and letting Marleau walk imo.
Shit, trade him for Carey Price, and maybe throw in Hal Gil lol.
We know one team that would…and did…the Sharks! And they had to make some serious moves to make it work!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Just to clarify: Heatley is 4 years younger than Iginla and isn’t on the decline that Iginla is. Iggy is getting older and that effects power forwards a lot. I’ll stick with our Sniper while he’s still in his prime years and capable of producing consistently.
Just because Heater doesn’t deke his way to the goal doesn’t mean he’s not a great goal scorer, and what Iggy does isn’t much different. Use a big body to get to the right spot and overpower the defense for a goal.
Iggy just drops the gloves, which is stupid for your best player on the ice to do.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I disagree about Torres. He’s been almost a perpetual 20 goal scorer with worse linemates than what he’d be playing with in San Jose. He’s scored 27 goals before so it’s reasonable to think that he could score 30+ with the Sharks. He’s great on the forecheck and he could also play our poor-mans Holmstrom/Byfuglien since he’s physical and he likes crashing the net. I think he’d fill Clowes shoes just fine, and almost 2 million less cap space. We might even be able to sign him for less than 2 million which is crazy for a 20 goal scorer who comes with all the intangibles of a guy like Scott Nichol.
I’ve seen JDD look very good at times, i think he has some potential to be a very good goaltender and we could get him for the price you’d expect to pay a back up goaltender. So think of it as though we were banking on Greiss and signing a dependable backup who can splits starts with him. It wasn’t long ago we were talking about going with Greiss/Stalock…This is a much better/safer alternative.
Besides what goaltenders would you like to get with Marleau’s money anyways? I really don’t see any franchise goaltenders out there now, and I don’t think a guy like Ellis is worth the increased cap hit when JDD can serve the same role for much cheaper.
We might be quibbling about semantics now in terms of netminding
But I think Greiss and JDD are redundant. They are both young guys with promise who need a mentor. Neither are starter material yet.
Ellis isn’t a great mentor candidate, but he’s certainly more reliable. You bank on him for 40-45 starts, and give 30-35 to the kid, be it Greiss or JDD. Again, looking at the change situation, if you’re having a bad night, is pulling Greiss for JDD or JDD for Greiss a real upgrade?
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Torres. He might put up the points, but I think he comes with equal parts undisciplined play that’ll hurt his team.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
If you want a mentor, maybe we should just sign Turco or Nabby again. I just think Greiss needs starts and NHL coaching…not a mentor. But the Sharks would still need someone capable of taking 2/3 of the starts and not costing us anything in net. I think Ellis does that, and would be willing to pay for him as such. Ellis could take 55 starts, give Greiss 27, see what you have. Ellis is really solid, and if we revamp the blueline, that’s really all you need. A proved comodity to pair with the young kid, and hope the defense helps em out.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Mentor might be the wrong word
But I think you have the assessment of Ellis correct. Someone to take about 55-60% of the starting load, and giving Greiss the luxury of selected starts to build his confidence and experience level, along with a dependable alternative on the chance he has an off night (it happens to the best of them).
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That’s really all I want out of the goalie tandem. One solid, consistant goalie who doesn’t need 65 starts a year to stay on track. And then 30 or so starts for Greiss so we can see what we have in him.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
27? Greiss should get much more than that. He used to do 50 starts in the AHL.
I think we’re kind of in agreement though. I just think JDD could fill the same role Ellis would but he would only cost us 1 million as opposed to the 2.5 million ellis would probably cost. JDD could do 50 starts no problem i’m sure, he did 45 last year.
If we could get Ellis at 2 million i’d be ok with that too though.
I don’t trust Greiss with much more than 30 starts. I want to still win next season. 27-30 will be enough to get an accurate read on what we have in him.
Ellis is a much better goalie than JDD in my view. I want a constant ahead of Greiss in the goalie tandem, not another question mark.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Ellis is a much better goalie than JDD in my view.
Truth. JDD has only played in 58 NHL games and put up a .901% which isn’t very good. Ellis is much more proven.
Here's my twitter losers
Well i just said this in the comment below but Ellis only had a .909 SV%, and he doesn’t play on the worst team in the league like JDD does, he plays on the Nashville Predators, a team that has some of the best defense in the league. The year before this year with the Predators Ellis only had a .900 SV%.
I see JDD as a goaltender who’s about equal to Ellis now, with the potential for improvement, and at least half the cap hit.
IMO you’re overvaluing the “team in front” factor.
Sure JDD has potential for improvement but he also has potential to worsen. Again, 58 NHL games played. He’s not that proven. A Greiss/JDD tandem has very very very little experience.
Ellis is a better goaltender with experience and is worth $1M more in cap hit. $1M more isn’t that major.
Here's my twitter losers
Ellis has far more potential to worsen than JDD does imo.
JDD just turned 26 and he’s going from playing on the worst team out there, to playing on one of the best teams out there.
Ellis is turning 30 in 2 days and he’s going from playing behind one of the best defensive corps in the league to playing behind something less than that. (hopefully we have a strong defensive corps next year as well though.)
Plus we’d be lucky to get Ellis at 2 million. He’s most likely 1.5 million more than JDD and i don’t see him being much better anyways; more experienced yeah, but certainly not more talented.
I have yet to see anything resembling “talent” when it comes to JDD. He had a 3.26 GAA last season…worst team in the league or not…THAT’S BAD! And he only faced, on average, 3 shots per 60 minutes more than Ellis did…and Ellis’s GAA was 2.69. That’s a substantial difference.
And this is all with Deslauriers being allowed to start and get into a groove, and Ellis being platooned with Rinne and not getting consistant work.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Age doesn’t determine skill. And to depend on JDD’s stats to improve based on playing on a bad team to a good team isn’t a good idea imo.
Here's my twitter losers
I’m not depending on anything. JDD’s stats in the last couple years are nearly identical to Ellis’s stats in the last couple years, so it’s not like im banking on him to turn into a goaltending god; but it is more likely that JDD will improve while Ellis might worsen, than it is that the opposite happens.
Small Sample Size
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The last COUPLE of years??? He’s had one season where he had enough starts to even draw any conclusions (the only other year he was in the NHL, he had 7 starts…that’s nothing). So, yes, he’s been an NHL goaltender for one year…and his stats were worse than Ellis’s. The conclusions drawn were not good. Not good at all.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Their stats are extremely similar. JDD had a 902 SV% versus Ellis’s .909 or .900 SV%.
Do you really not think that JDD’s SV% would go up if he was playing for the Predators? Or that Ellis’s SV% would go down playing for the Oilers??
And I gave you the stats earlier on how many more goals JDD gives up than Ellis over 60 minutes (over half a goal more per 60 minutes, while only facing 3 more shots). That’s substantial, and indicates more than just the team people are playing for…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Nikolai Khabibulan’s (however you spell it) GAA went up by .70, and his SV% went down 10% going from the Blackhawks to the Oilers.
His back also went to crap and he is an aging goalie. You’re also comparing it against playing in a contract year the year before.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
His back didn’t go to crap until this year. Cmon though, lets not pretend like you think Ellis’s stats would be the same or better had he been playing for the Oilers this year rather than the Preds.
I think they would have been better than JDD’s.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
And that’s the point.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
If JDD was on the Predators last year instead of the Oilers, his numbers would probably be a fair bit higher. If Ellis were on the Oilers this last year instead of the Preds, his numbers would likely be lower than what they are now. (His GAA would take a huuuge hit for sure)
Considering their numbers are already so similar it’s pretty safe to say that JDD would then have better numbers than Ellis.
You know honestly… this is pointless to argue, and really i don’t like either goaltender very much. I want Carey Price :(
I’m starting to think we should try to keep Nabby if possible. If Marleau can’t be signed to a long front loaded contract then we should let him walk, keep Nabby, fix the D, and then try to sign a guy like Patrick Sharp, or maybe even Lombardi.
You’re making a lot of assumptions that are not at all verifiable, much less “safe to say”. You can’t say that they would take a “huuuuge hit for sure” because you’re just making crap up. If having a shit defense automatically meant that your stats would drop, including save % and GAA then please explain to me why Vokoun doesn’t have shitty numbers? If he was all of a sudden on the Predators would he suddenly have a significant bump in SV% and drop in GAA? Why didn’t that happen for Luongo when he left Florida.
Sometimes players just aren’t good, no matter how friggin big they are.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Cuz Vokoun is amazing, and yes if he played on the Predators he probably would have a better SV% and GAA.
Luongo is just extremely inconsistent imo. He’s a big butterfly goaltender but he plays small, like he’s a reactionary type goaltender. Maybe he’s just trying to do too much, i dunno.
I just think that with quality defensemen and a good defensive system you can make big players look like they’re good even if they’re just ok. When a goaltender doesn’t have to worry about rebounds very much, and can just focus on making himself big and getting in the way of the initial shot (like Niemi), things become easy for them and they look a lot better than they really are.
JDD faced 3 more shots per 60 minutes. And he gave up more than half a goal more over those three shots. Ellis would have definately helped the Oilers (although the Oil was still terrible.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Deslauriers stats are nowhere near identical to Ellis.
You’re arguing for acquiring JDD based on his supposed potential, and from what I’ve seen, he doesn’t have much more of. Ellis is a more proven goaltender. If you’re looking for a stop gap in goaltending until Greiss or Stalock develops into starter material, you take the goalie with more game experience and who has proven to be a reliable goaltender with playoff experience.
You take JDD if you believe that he has significant untapped potential— which I don’t believe he has. Even then, Ellis has only played 3 full seasons in the NHL. It’s debatable whether or not he has achieved his full potential. Among all positions, goaltenders take the longest to ripe. It would not be unexpected to see the same of Ellis.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 17, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
You take JDD because he’s dirt cheap and he has a nearly identical SV% as Ellis, even when playing for the worst team in the league while Ellis has some of the best defensemen in the league backing him up.
His potential is just an extra bonus.
Ellis and JDD don’t have nearly identical save %.
Ellis has career .912 save% and 2.64 GAA. In Ellis’ rookie season, he recorded a .924 save%— the highest save % among goalies that season.
JDD has a career .901 save% and 3.27 GAA. Even considering that Ellis played behind a better D still does not explain the discrepancy, especially when considering that Khabibulin was posting a .909 save% in 19 games played. That JDD posted nearly .10 save% worse than an aging goalie with a wonky back isn’t very convincing.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 17, 2010 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The last two seasons Ellis has recorded .900 and .909 SV%‘s, which is similar if not worse than JDD’s SV% this last year. This was also JDD’s first real season in the NHL and he’s still young so it’s more likely that his SV% would go up next year, especially going from a team like the Oilers to a team like the Sharks.
I just like him because he’s cheap and he’s one of those guys who can cover the whole bottom of the net (he’s 6’4") while in butterfly stance. A guy like that we can turn into our very own Antti Niemi if we can sign some quality defensemen, which we’d be much more likely to do with a guy like JDD who will cost no more than a million in cap space.
Sv % usually drops when your on a team that prevents a lot of shots on goal. This is major reason why Nabby’s save % went up this year. He faced a lot more shots than he’s use to.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well the Sharks played a fairly unique style where they were happy to let shooters take shots as long as they were along the outside. That doesn’t mean “more shots allowed = higher SV% for the goaltender”. At the end of the day we’re still comparing the Predators to the Oilers here.
How is this argument still going on??? If stats won’t sway Khazz from his assumptions on what should happen in his view, then continuing to talk about it is probably pointless.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 18, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
I’ve already said it was a pointless argument but Evil ducks is still talking about it.
Both Ellis and JDD have shitty stats, and i personally think the minor discrepancies in their stats can be chalked up to the difference between the teams they play for; which is perfectly reasonable, but obviously there’s no way to know for sure so there’s really no point in arguing about it.
I would be nervous to have either goaltender in net tbh. I hope there’s some other option for us.
how is Ellis' save % worse than JDD's?
lots of assumptions made , such as JDD’s save % will go up next year. Example: Steve Mason’s save % did not go up this year. Andrew Raycroft, Carey Price are a few other noteworthy examples.
Don’t like JDD’s net presence. He’s not consistent enough. He’s not mobile enough. And just because he played for a piss poor team like the Oilers is no guarantee that he’ll put up better stats on a better team.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 19, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothings guaranteed, but do you really think his numbers would be the same playing for one of the best teams in the league as they were when he played with the worst team in the league?
But whatever, i made a fanpost about Ellis and his poor SV% actually seems to be due in part to the Predators being terrible on the Penalty Kill. His even strength SV% is actually the best among all free agent goaltenders, including Nabokov.
Comparing Ellis and JDD, i see them having similar stats the last couple of years, except that JDD played on the worst team in the league while Ellis played on a team with some of the best defensemen in the league. Add onto that the likelihood of Ellis costing 1.5 million more cap space and JDD comes out the winner to me.
I think to me the difference between Ellis and JDD is that as I posted already that we just have to sign Ellis to a contract where as JDD we will have to give somthing up to get his rights because the Oil will probably match an offer sheet.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
I dunno about all that mentor stuff. I don’t think either of them need Mentors. Greiss just needs someone to split starts with him.
I’m also not sure what your getting at with pulling the goaltenders. If someone is having a bad night you pull them so that a fresh goaltender can come in. If Nabby is having a bad night is pulling him for Greiss an upgrade? Of course it’s not an upgrade on paper, but hopefully Greiss isn’t having an equally bad night.
Khaaz I know you are high on Deslauriers but what are the Sharks going to have to give up to get him since hes an RFA. At $1 Million the Oilers I have to think are going to match the offer sheet so hes gonna have to come via trade and since ’Bullin’s best days are behind them I don’t know if he comes cheep.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
I’d argue that Nabby was the regular season MVP for the Sharks…but I’m not advocating resigning him. Marleau’s going to cost too much. It has nothing to do with respect and loyalty. The NHL is a business. He wants a big contract, we can’t afford to give him one, most likely. It’s the way the world works.
I’d also argue that Thornton and Boyle are the faces of the franchise, but this is probably not the place for that, lol.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
You were talking about signing Kovalchuk for 7 – 8 million the other day weren’t you? We can certainly afford to resign him and i think he would be worth resigning at anything under 7 million.
I discussed it because it was what the topic was. I said I really liked him, but he was too expensive for us. I feel the same way about Marleau.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed
But I can’t see him not taking a paycut. He sure as shit knows that if we’re gonna get past the conference finals we need to allocate some cash to buying some quality D-men. And if I’m him all I care about is getting that cup.
He’d have a great chance at getting a Cup over the next few years in LA…and they can afford to pay him 7 million a year. I highly doubt he takes a huge paycut to stay here.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m just trying to stay positive! Haha. Thiiiiinking Happy Thoughts! But I will be pissed if keeping Nabby is the reason Marleau can’t stay. Even though i doubt that happens…
Just for the sake of pot-stirring
If it comes down to “loyalty and respect,” I’d argue for that the course of their respective careers in Teal, Nabby’s earned more than Patty.
That’s probably like saying Pavel Datsyuk means more to the Red Wings than Henrik Zetterberg… but whatever. Pot stirred.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Meh
Marleau has been a Shark for what 15 years. Come on! He’s got the most goals, assists, and points in franchise history! Nabby’s almost never been the goalie that could stone the other team cold like the Sharks have experienced soooooo many painful times except maybe in ‘04. Marleau’s earned it and hopefully he can put that aside and take a lower salary.
Marleau's been a Shark for 12 years. Nabby's been a Shark for 10.
Marleau holds virtually ever scoring record on the team, although it memory serves, it took him longer than Owen Nolan to reach that. Whatever, quibbles. Marleau’s a great player.
For much of the 1990s, and the early part of the 2000s, pre Joe Thornton, the Sharks were a very mediocre team that managed to make some noise in the Western Conference because they had an outstanding netminder, a Calder Trophy winner no less.
For most of his career in Teal, Marleau hasn’t even been the best forward on the team. Owen Nolan, Vincent Damphousse, and Joe Thornton have likely held that distinction during Marleau’s tenure.
If you believe that Nabby has never been a light’s out goalie, mayhaps you are forgetting his decade of service. It’s true he’s lost a step in the past 3 seasons, but he was hardly the problem against Detroit in ’07 or Dallas in ’08. If he was healthy against Edmonton in ’06, I still believe we would have made it to the finals.
But alas, the past is the past.
Also, the “reply” button is your friend.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The reply button is overrated. JUST LIKE NABOKOV!!!
SEE WHAT I DID THERE!!!
:-P
(Oh, and I’m in the camp that thinks neither should be back…whatever).
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
You've actually swayed me into your camp
I just am in a “defend Nabby” mood these days. Patty was a no-show for most of these playoffs, and was still a -2 against Chicago in spite of scoring 5 goals. Nabby had a good post-season until the Chicago series. It’s hard to defend either of them on the merits of their most recent post season.
I’m just saying that any notion that Patty is or has been more valuable to the team over the course of his career than Nabby is very suspect. I haven’t been around FTF for very long, and I don’t know what it’s been like in seasons past, but this season, people seem pretty ready to throw Nabby under the bus and give Patty a pass. I just don’t care much for that viewpoint.
My impression anyway.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Agreed.
On all counts.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree with you, Elvis. I don’t know if it’s like this every year, but damn people have been popping up all over the place putting in their 2 cents of throwing Nabby’s butt to the curb. I’m pretty new to talking to hockey fans in general, but i would think that fans would have the respect to a man who served their team for 10 years.
Then again I think this whole “waiting to see what happens” thing is driving everyone up the wall emotionally.
"Don't even start"
by ZombieSkittles on Jun 17, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t speak for everyone but I love Nabby and if he came back I don’t think I’d believe it was for the best but I’d accept it a day later and I’d cheer him on unfortunately in this cap area hard choices have to be made. If it was not for the cap issue I don’t know if Nabby would have come under so much fire.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Reply fail twice
This is a formidable rebuttle, and I’m not going to argue semantics, especially when we’re on the same team lol. I have my opinion, you have your’s. Let’s just all hope they both take paycuts and we have the same team in ‘10-’11 + Paul Martin and Niclas Jalmarsson/Jordan Leopold and we can all be happy.
This would please me greatly
And by all means, argue semantics with me! My alternative is doing work!
Although I do have France/Mexico to distract me at the moment. Pretty decent game.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
4 years and 13 million
I’d say we could get him for that much maybe
Then Pavelski to 4 years 17 million
And then they could let Nabby walk, get marleau to sign a contract of 3 years 14 million maybe.
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Jun 17, 2010 12:22 PM PDT reply actions
4 years and 13 million
I’d say we could get him for that much maybe
Then Pavelski to 4 years 17 million
And then they could let Nabby walk, get marleau to sign a contract of 3 years 14 million maybe.
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Jun 17, 2010 12:22 PM PDT reply actions
though he might never agree to a low contract like that after the year he is having, so we might have to see him walk
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Jun 17, 2010 12:23 PM PDT reply actions
Halak to St. Louis, via tsn.ca
YAAYYYY NO CAREY PRIIIICE
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 12:47 PM PDT reply actions
yeah, WTF? Why did they get rid of Halak?
I'll drink that! oh...I'll drink TO that, oh crap I quit drinking.
It’s Montreal. There is no rhyme or reason to what they do.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Bring on Dan Ellis!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he mocks us.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jun 17, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
No, he just really doesn't want Price
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
He also really seems to like Ellis. Which I can see…I like him too.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I think he just hates Price and Nabokov and loves Greiss; and signing Ellis means Greiss will likely be our guy next season.
I suspect signing Ellis means Ellis is the guy next season. Greiss should in no way be our starter next season…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 18, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
That's what I was thinking as well.
I think it means Greiss gets close to 30 starts, maybe more. But I don’t think it means he is the starter.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 18, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s gonna be pretty depressing if all of our Stanley cup hopes and dreams end up resting on Dan Ellis. My hope is to just get a guy who can eat up some starts and get us to the playoffs alongside Greiss, and by then I would hope that Greiss has shown that he can be our goaltender for the near future.
I figured that was the hope when signing a guy like Ellis, otherwise we should start thinking more seriously about resigning Nabby or spending more money on a quality goaltender imo.
Depends on if you think Ellis is a quality goaltender or not…I personally think Ellis can lead a team to a Cup, and you clearly don’t. I personally think Ellis is the best option left if we want to save money and spend it on the blueline. Guess we’ll see what happens…I tire of this discussion. Too busy celebrating the Lakers’ 16th Championship.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 18, 2010 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I like Price a lot better than Ellis, but I wouldn’t mind Ellis. As long as he comes fairly cheap.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah he IS kind of a douchebag.
Great goalie but a douche, nonetheless
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
lol i meant Halaks agent Allan Walsh. I don’t know much about Halak.
Although Montreal says that they never even spoke to Halak or his agent before making the trade. Halak said he was ‘very surprised by the trade’. That’s pretty crazy that they didn’t speak to Halak or his agent at all before trading him.
LOL – oh, whooops! I guess I’ve had the impression that Halak is somewhat douchey. But yeah, very surprised that even he didn’t have a clue about the trade ’til after the fact.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
lol man, Habs fans must be pissed. It doesn’t seem like a very good trade either, they got 2 prospects who have never played in the NHL for him Halak.
You’d think the Habs would be trying to win now after a great postseason and a new found goaltending phenom; but it seems like they’re just building for the future now.
In their case, it’s probably smarter to not overreact to their miracle run. They were a pretty bad team overall that got lucky and rode a ridiculously hot goalie…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Eller player a few games for the Blues last season.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
It’s money. Price will cost half of what Halak is going to command. I’m only slightly surprised that Halak is the one that was shipped out. Its the wrong move in the short term, but in the long run, it may end up working out.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
I like the offer for Seto.
Four years keeps him around for a good period of time and 3.6M is about right in terms of a cap hit.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 1:43 PM PDT reply actions
And one more thing:
If he demands more money, can we say “You’re from Western Canada, don’t pull that crap”?
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha, nice!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
"You’re from Western Canada, don’t pull that crap"?
Oh that’s GOOD!
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Am I gonna get lynched for that?
Yes, although “lynched” is such a taboo word…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
true, true. I should really say “smacked on the hand,” or something which wouldn’t connote a reference to the violent and oppressive history of African Americans in this country.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
175 comments in this thread, and maybe 50 of them concern Seto. My apologies for letting myself get dragged off track in an FTF thread once again!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not our fault we don’t have an updated “Price is gone” post to bitch about goal-tending at the top.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
AHAHAHAHAHAHA WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Fear the Fin
Off topic since-
-OH HELL NO! HAL JORDAN WAS SUCH THE BETTER GREEN LANTERN!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
False.
I’m going with Kyle Rayner here. /initiates real Green Lantern debate.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 17, 2010 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm partial to John Stewart myself
Wait, crap, on topic!
Devin Setoguchi plays for the Sharks!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
and hes going to do the ducky charity event!
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jun 17, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I have a copy of every Hal Jordan era (old and the new incarnation) issue… he’s the best by far.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 17, 2010 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions
What do you guys think...
What do you think it would take to get Rick Nash to San Jose? I mean the guy plays for the Blue Jackets. Obviously we’d have to clear some cap
He of the $7.8M cap hit?
I’m sorry, but no. Nash is a great player, I’d love to have him in teal. But for $7.8M for the next, what is it, 8 years? He’d better play forward, defense and goaltender.
Even putting him on a line with Joe and Heatley (because there’s no way in hell we can keep Patty if we brought him in unless we traded Heatley and Huskins for Nash and a defensive prospect) he’d murder our depth. We would NOT be able to acquire a top 2 d-man, which the team clearly needs.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Sucks for him, because this might be the reason he can’t leave. Who’d want to be stuck playing professional sports in Ohio?
Lebron? Is that you?
Screw Lebron James. If the Blue Jackets actually acquired a half-decent center for Nash, he wouldn’t have to carry that team’s offense.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 17, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, the center issue is a bit overrated
Vermette has blossomed since coming to Columbus, and Brassard is a pretty solid young player who should only keep getting better.
But you can definitely see the team overpaying for a UFA like Plekanec, or trading the No. 4 pick for another centerman…when, if they’re going to spend like that, they’d be much better served building their defense.
Love Rick Nash, and he’s the reason I started following the Jackets now and then, but there’s no way we could afford him and keep Patty et al.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
If you have to build your top 6 lines by trading for elite scorers in order to win...
it means your coaching isn’t doing its job.
it means your scouting and player development isn’t doing its job.
it means your current roster of players is under performing
Depth scoring is where it’’s at. Signing Kovalchuk, Nash, and whoever wet dream means that San Jose’s development, coaching, scouting, player chemistry is under-performing. At which point, we need to all seriously look at whether this is a team or a collection of all-stars. Herb Brooks didn’t want a collection of all-stars.
Setoguchi fulfills a need on that 2nd line. He has speed and skill and he forechecks tenaciously. this allows the Sharks 2nd line to spread the oppositon’s defense and create turnovers. Without Seto’s speed, it becomes much more difficult to create offensive opps
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
JUST SIGN ELLIS
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 17, 2010 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I’m mesmerized by the … thing next to the door.
Am I nuts (or hockey deprived, same thing?), but that reminds me of Couture.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
reminds me of Couture.
that’s really funny
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 17, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Awesome GIF
And I completely agree with the whole Ellis thing.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
by sharks in oc on Jun 17, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I really love Ellis's attitude
From Pierre LeBrun’s ESPN blog:
“I’m hoping to find my niche where I’m a cheaper option than the $4 million and $5 million guys, maybe an option for a team that’s feeling the cap crunch,” said Ellis, who turns 30 on Saturday. “I’m not a huge money guy. I live in Omaha, Neb., in the summertime. My most important thing is to find a team who I can win with.”
Ellis enjoyed his time with the Nashville Predators, but saw the writing on the wall when the team signed Pekka Rinne to an extension this season. So Ellis made it easy on Preds GM David Poile at the player exit meetings and told him he was ready to explore the market.
“I told him I really liked Nashville and it would have been nice to go back there,” Ellis said. “But the way the opportunity is there now with Pekka all signed up, I’d like to try somewhere else and try to gain a No. 1 position or at least compete for a No. 1 job. So, basically, I told him I wouldn’t be back.”
Maybe he is hinting at SJ. Who knows, maybe they have talked. (I know that would be tampering but w/e)
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
by sharks in oc on Jun 17, 2010 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Everyone tampers. Just gotta be good at it and not get caught!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 17, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
As this vaguely relates to Seto...
Everybodies favorite internet bullshit artist is at it again with the Sharks:
Apparently the Sharks may have interest in reuniting (cause is feels so good) Spezza with Heatley. The Rumored deal may be Joe Thornton, Setaguchi and a prospect for Spezza, Brian Elliott and the rights to Volchenkov (which the Sharks would then move elsewhere).
Let the idiocy of that sink in for a bit.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Interesting
What’s it mean to get the rights to Volchenkov? He’s a UFA so what does that do for us?
Elliot would make an extremely cheap goaltender to split starts with Greiss i guess. He can definitely handle 50 starts no problem.
If it was Joe Thornton, Clowe, and a prospect we can live without, for Spezza, Elliot, and a signed Volchenkov (to a reasonable contract under 5 mill) i might be interested, but i don’t think that would ever happen.
Wait
Who is Setaguchi? Is he good? Why are we trading him?
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Oh, Eklund.
Just when you think his rumors cannot get any more ridiculous, he does this.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 18, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
His Broduer to Washington for Semin still wins lol.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Oh yeah, definitely.
Wasn’t that rumor even picked up by some television stations?
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 18, 2010 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Rofl...
Replace Thornton with Spezza? No thanks. I do like Spezza, but not at the expense of Thornton…
I love baseless rumors!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 18, 2010 8:13 PM PDT up reply actions
From the same man that brought you "Evgeni Malkin to the Kings... "
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 19, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually, that was Bruce Garrioch, not Eklund.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Someone from that dumbass place made even a dumber offer
Bruins send Wheeler and Savard to Columbus for Prospects/Picks…yeah f***ing right >_<
My friend is a Bruins fan and he would literally murder someone if that happened…
Go Sharks!
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