Wallin, Nichol ink new deals: What this means for San Jose going forward
by FTF Staff on Jun 27, 2010 12:23 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
137 comments
The San Jose Sharks have re-signed unrestricted free agents Scott Nichol and Niclas Wallin to one year deals according to sjsharks.com.
Although financial details are not officially confirmed by the team, Pierre Lebrun and Capgeek.com are reporting that Wallin's contract will count for $2.5MM against the Sharks 2010-2011 salary cap. With Nichol reportedly coming in at $0.760MM San Jose is left with roughly $8.965MM to fill out the roster, with nine forwards, six defenseman, and one goaltender under contract.
Devin Setoguchi and Manny Malhotra are the two notable free agents who have yet to be signed.
Scott Nichol was an important piece to the fourth line last year, making significant contributions on the shorthanded unit, in the faceoff circle, as well as bringing a junkyard dog type mentality while forechecking. A contract raise of a mere $10,000 is more than acceptable for his services.
Niclas Wallin on the other hand, is quite possibly one of the most confusing situations to occur in San Jose in the last few years. His trade for a second round selection at the 2010 NHL Trade Deadline was questioned by us from the moment the deal became official, and a $2.5MM contract seems like quite the overpayment for a 35 year old who played largely on the third pairing during his twenty nine games in teal.
Wallin's contract will be the highest in his career, a 45% increase from the $1.725MM he made the last four seasons.
To say that we were unhappy with these proceedings would likely be an understatement-- it brings back memories of the Kent Huskins contract from last season where, after an injury plagued year, the journeyman blueliner received a hefty $3.4MM contract spread out over two seasons. Huskins provides some value on the third pairing, as does Wallin, but the level of compensation Sharks General Manager Doug Wilson has allocated to these two players does not fit where they are projected to play.
In essence, San Jose now has four blueliners who serve a four, five, or six role-- Murray is best suited in the four slot, and Wallin, Huskins, and Demers are all bottom pairing talents who would be asked to play more minutes than they are capable of if the Sharks do not make a splash in the free agent or trade market this summer.
Wallin's signing sets up three potential scenarios heading into July 1st.
The first is that Wilson is content with the blueline he has in place, and is willing to enter the 2010-2011 season with a hodgepodge crew of defensively questionable lower end players. It would be nothing short of a tragedy, setting up a situation where San Jose, in one months time, has downgraded both the goaltending and defensive positions. You have to figure this isn't a desirable option for the organization considering they were ranked 23rd in shots against last season, and have been pegged by FTF and it's readers as requiring a legitimate top three defenseman such as Paul Martin or Dan Hamhuis to join the team.
The second option is that the Sharks will heavily pursue a top goaltender in the trade market. Wilson is known for his consistent ability to complete favorable deals in this area, with players such as Dan Boyle, Dany Heatley, and Joe Thornton all coming over via trade. Tomas Vokoun, who we labeled as one of the best goaltenders in the NHL earlier this year, has been casually linked to San Jose this offseason in rumor circles. With Florida undergoing a regime change after bringing in Dale Tallon as General Manager, this may be something Wilson has been pursuing. Whether or not this is the route he goes is unknown of course, but the strange signing of Wallin does put this possibility on the table.
Our final, and third option, is that the Sharks will trade a defenseman in order to clear space for a free agent to join the team. Kent Huskins is the most appealing option here due to his cap hit and relative skill level, but he would have to be packaged with a more impact player in order to receive much of anything. We feel Douglas Murray is also on the table now considering his contract size-- in this is the case, we would definitely question the decision to sign Wallin before July 1st, which essentially would have forced the Sharks hand into trading the better defenseman without extending an offer to a player in the free agent class.
Demers is unlikely to be moved in our opinion considering he is on an entry-level deal and was a big factor on the power play this season. His young age, and promise in the offensive zone, also contributes to this idea.
All in all, we consider Wilson's day with these two players relatively poor. The signing of Scott Nichol gets a green light from us, but Wallin's contract is far too much for what he brings to the table. It puts the Sharks in a position where obtaining a big ticket defenseman is more difficult than it was earlier this weekend.
Seems like the assertion that Wilson tends to overpay for depth defenseman is starting to get some serious legs.
Go Sharks.
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This is just awful
I’ll never understand why we overpay our bottom pair defensemen so much. The Wallin contract its just awful it almost makes me forget about huskins
by waive kent huskins on Jun 27, 2010 12:30 AM PDT reply actions
I was actually shocked when I saw Wallin’s contract figure. It really ruined the whole weekend for me.
I am afraid that Option #1 is taking place here, unless a big trade happens. But seeing how the organization is apparently wants to bring everyone but Nabby and Blake back for next year, I don’t have much hope.
Staying the course, huh.. I would have hoped that the holes exposed by Buf-lin and the Co would have opened DW’s eyes. But so far, it appears he’s content with last year’s team, minus Nabby and Blake.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
I was actually shocked when I saw Wallin’s contract figure. It really ruined the whole weekend for me.
Man i feel the same way. I was a dissapointed that we didn’t put our 1st round draft pick to better user, but that really that was just nitpicking. The Wallin deal just downright depresses me. I’m only keeping my sanity by telling myself that it might not true, and that maybe Lebrun just heard wrong or something.
Agreed.
If all that was done was to let Blake retire and Nabby walk for raises, we’re in trouble next season, as no dman upgrades and a downgrade in netminding = disaster, I don’t care what the Excel sheet says.
I’m thinking (hoping?) DW still has a card or two up his sleeve, though.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
by Noctro on Jun 27, 2010 7:51 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Can't Argue
Draft weekend was kinda a bust if your a shark fan. Although we won’t know what we got in our pick or what others will get in players we left on the board, Tafolli, Etam etc. What we all seem to agree on is Hambergers contract is terrible. I was ok with Nabby leaving because we needed cap space to upgrade our D. With out a huge trade our defense is actually worse and our goal tending is a huge question mark and that still has Seto and Malhotra with out contracts. Can someone please tell me when we switched management with the Blue Jackets?
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Anyone remember a few years ago when everyone was saying “What the hell?” about Angelo Esposito not getting picked in the top 10, and eventually dropping down to the Pens at 20? “How could you let that talent sit on the board?” Well, it turns out that being a highly touted 18 year old is not a good predictor of success in the NHL, or even AHL level.
Relax about Etem, Taffoli, etc.
The Wallin contract is puzzling, though, I admit. That’s way too much for someone who hasn’t proved anything in his playing time as a Shark.
With all the draft picks this year
Do you think maybe he’s trying to build a younger team for a run at the cup in a few years, instead of immediately? Maybe he’s content with just letting this next season just pan out and see how well we did? I now feel like I have no idea what DW will do next. I’m hoping he as magic under his sleeves!
We're on the verge of winning a title
We just need a piece or two.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
I know!
that’s whats so frustrating. Unless something else big happens, we’re left with the same team we had last year but with an even worse defense. Now I’m not so confident about next year
Don't forget about Free Agency
There’s still plenty of time to make things right.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Hmmm...good point.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Illegal aliens have always been a problem in the United States. Ask any Indian.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Desjardins was signed, too
From the Sharks’ page at NHL.com.
Although it doesn’t mention how much, nor does capgeek have it posted as of this comment.
"...Take a deep breath sometimes... a break...and play some...hockey."
"...Hockey is a great way to take a pause from...day-to-day hard work..." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr.
"TIC" means "Tongue-In-Cheek", when I use it in comments, in case one doesn't know. ;-)
Can we just ban DW from signing defensemen?
He’s terrible at it apparently.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I was hoping that 2.5 million was in hamburgers, and not dollars. Damn.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
"No, That's Not General Malaise, It's NHL Playoff Fever." Real Fake Sports
Wouldn't that mean more money then?
Unless it’s like a McDonald’s hamburger or something.
Hamburgers don’t count against the cap, though! ;)
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 9:19 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Especially if you pay for them on next Tuesday…
by skilletboy on Jun 27, 2010 2:02 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I was fine with the signing, then I saw the pricetag.
I just don’t get this one at all. Almost feels like there’s a Bruce Bochy with veteran catchers analogy in there somewhere.
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
Proud member of the "Keep Marleau Forever" Club
Except where's our Buster Posey?
by skilletboy on Jun 27, 2010 9:34 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Except Petrecki is more of an Eugenio Velez without the random call-ups
He sucks. I mean, he might be great in a few years, but right now he sucks.
But I somewhat agree with the Mike Moore sentiment. The dude’s a defensive beast,
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Along those lines
I was thinking this morning that it was like Doug Wilson and Brian Sabean switched jobs for the weekend…
The Sharks? Oooh, grizzled veteran—MUST HAVE!!! Here’s all our money!
The Giants? Start a rookie pitcher and catcher, in tandem, instead of the fat old grizzled vets.
by Timorous Me on Jun 27, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
The Giants would somehow trade for Roy Halladay or Albert Pujols giving up only Nate Schierholtz, Eli Whiteside, and Edgar Renteria.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Except the NHL equivalent of Pujols might be Crosby or Ovie. DW isn’t that good.
by skilletboy on Jun 27, 2010 12:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
It’s like DW and Sabean got together last week and shared their thoughts on negotiating tactics. Seriously, what leverage did Wallin have to demand 2.5m? Seems to me we could have offered him half that amount and he would’ve had no choice but to accept. If he threatens to walk, who cares? We already have Murray. How many chairs do we need? I shudder to think what Seto and Manny will now be expecting. And poor Nichol — he must be looking at his .7m and saying, “But… sir… … I actually played last year…”
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that’s huge too. It almost seems like a slap in the face to some of the contracts other player have signed, or will sign. Nichol played his heart out for us and gets an almost insulting 10 thousand dollar raise, while Wallin gets a 40% raise and a NTC as a 35 year old, injury prone, # 5 6 or 7 defensemen who’s slow, and not very physical.
And ORTMEYER…how can you look Ortmeyer in the face and tell him you don’t have room for his 500k cap hit when you’re throwing money away on mediocre depth defensemen like it’s nothing.
I dunno how you can get Manny or Seto to sign for anything close to 2.5 million or under considering how much more valuable they are to the team than Wallin is.
I really dont know why everyone is freaking out about this NTC, its a one year deal hes done after this year.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
I think he really likes Walllin. Therefore he thought 2.5 was reasonable and through in the NTC because Wallin wanted it.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
People are freaking out because the pool of money DW had to 1) sign Seto, 2) sign Malhotra, 3) bring in a veteran goalie to share starts with Greiss, and 4) improve a defense that got Dominated by Chicago was already small, and DW just gave 2.5 million of that pool to a guy that should probably be making 1 million.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I understand that and I never said I agree with the contract amount. But the NTC really wont matter at all since this is a 1 year deal which is why Im trying to figure this out. Everyone is acting like its a multi-year deal with an NTC. And as far as getting dominated this is where I disagree. Our defense was exposed by the Hawks yes, but it was not dominated. Discounting empty net goals in the span of 4 games Hawks scored 11 goals. (This is all from memory feel free to call me an idiot if Im getting this wrong). They never scored more than 3 goals a game with a goalie in. Thats a goals for average of 2.75. Overall for the playoffs sharks were 2.73 a game in goals against average. So you could say our defence was pretty standad, in face we finished 3rd in this catagory only behind Philly (Pronger) and Buffalo (Miller and only played one season). Now the sharks scored 7 goals total in the series over 4 games. Thats a GFA of 1.75. Our GFA for the entire playoffs 2.73 as well. So basically what im trying to say is our offense got dominated by Chicago not our Defense. Our Defense was quite standard against Chicago. With Nabby and Blake gone I do believe we need a defenseive upgrade and I dont believe Wallin at 2.5 is the answer or beneficial to the rest of the team. But saying our D got dominated against chicago simply isnt true.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
I’m with you, I think we overpaid Wallin, but really he’s making maybe 1M more than he should, which isn’t exactly world ending in the grand scheme of things.
I’m just trying to figure out the defensive strategy going forward, I can’t imagine DW thinks Wallin replaces Blake, so who does?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well DW isnt really known for big Free Agent Signings, I honeslty cant even think of one instance where he bought in a big name Free Agent. So I think you can get rid of Martin, and Volchenkov on the Sharks roster in the future. If he is gonna upgrade the D he is going through trade so maybe Bieksa? Also I fear that DW does think he replaces Blake based on interviews. I dont see a Huskins/Wallin pairing going forward and Demers had a good showing last year and earned his spot in the top 6. I dont see him wasting 1.7 million dollars to scratch Huskins, thats more of a Jay Leach type role. This leads me to believe he will in fact use Wallin as a replacement for Blake and take this D corps forward. I remember a comment DW made when announcing they were releasing Nabby. He said something along the lines of its the style of Goltender that matters, which makes me think he will keep this D and try to find the style of Goalie which suits his fancy. (Hopefully a big Butterfly blocking type goalie). Also anyoen know if DW has put in a qualifying offer to Setogouchi yet? Im starting to get nervous.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
It’s not like we’re only down 1 million more cap space than we should be, we’re down 2.5 million more cap space than we should be. We don’t have room for Wallin in our defense pairings. Signing Wallin means a few things.
1. That DW thinks that he replaces Blake and our defense is fine as it is even after that downgrade.
That’s just dumb…
2. That we’re going to trade Murray to make room for a top pairing defensemen to play with Boyle or Vlasic.
It’d be ridiculous to pick Wallin over Murray. They’re both very similar players except that Murray is much younger, still rapidly improving, and much more physical than Wallin is.
3. That we’re going to trade Huskins to make room for a top pairing defensemen.
Is 1.7 million enough extra cap space to really sign the type of defenseman this teams needs? I don’t think so, and frankly Huskins looks like a bargain at 1.7 million in comparison to Wallin. Huskins is fairly reliable, consistent, and he’s pretty good at moving the puck. He’s just as good as Wallin, maybe better, and he’s cheaper. So it doesn’t make sense to pick Wallin over Huskins.
Nothing about the Wallin signing really makes sense though i guess.
Oh and Wallin/Demers was easily the worst defense pairing we saw all year. So there’s another reason it’d be dumb to trade Huskins and replace him with Wallin.
Wallin and Demers coulda been the worst pairing for a reason. Wallin got traded over at the deadline and then got thrown out there with Demers. They had no chemisty or anything. Boyle/Murray Blake/Vlasic and Huskins/Demers played with each other from the begginning of the year so unlike Wallin/Demers they had time to create chemistry.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
Hmm i don’t remember when Wallin and Demers were playing together but i remember Wallin playing with Boyle for a while when he first got here. If it was early on after the trade then hopefully that’s the reason they played so poorly together.
Wallin is much better than Huskins, but that just means we’re overpaying both of them. Aside from him being hurt, I didn’t have that big a problem with Wallin when he played. He looked like a big steady defensemen to me.
I’m thinking memories are getting clouded by that big 2.5M you keep reading next to his name. He wasn’t terrible, he wasn’t 2.5M good, but then again people around here don’t think anybody should make more than 2M. (For reference listen to the bitching that still comes up over Murray and Vlassic’s contracts).
I’m not about to argue that we have good contracts for either Wallin or Huskins, but it’s not earth shattering (I actually think he’s going to ship Huskins in a similar manner to what happened to Lukowich last year).
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think, for large portions of time, our defense did get dominated. We did a poor job of clearing the crease for Nabby, a poor job of blocking shots, and a poor job of generating offensive chances on the breakout. Furthermore, Chicago’s speed had our much slower defensemen on their heels. Even when Colorado gave us trouble, the few times that happened, it was when they were utilizing their speed. These are problems that plagued us in the regular season and that continued straight into the playoffs. Hopefully, Wallin can help us in the areas of clearing the crease and blocking shots, but he’s not going to generate offense, and he certainly isn’t going to generate speed.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm upset, but not surprised...
His comments when he announced we were letting Nabby walk seemed to indicate he planned on resigning Wallin. And once he said that, I became very skeptical about his desire to go get anyone else for the blueline. When he traded for Wallin, he clearly saw him as a top 4 guy. I suspect that hasn’t changed.
Unless we try to get Vokoun for the goalie position, I’m a wee bit worried. The backend is weak…really weak. And now even more cap space is gone.
Sigh, guess I’ll have to trust that DW knows what he’s doing.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 9:18 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Something's gotta give.,,,
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m)
Manny Malhotra ($2.000m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Niclas Wallin ($2.500m)
Kent Huskins ($1.700m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Filler Goalie ($3.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $61.256m; CAP ROOM: $-0.926m BONUSES: $0.930m
(THE LINES ARE JUST IN ORDER OF SALARY, NOT WHAT THEY WOULD ACTUALLY BE)
As it stands right now, we can’t sign Setoguchi, Malhotra, and a goalie (at 3m) and stay under the cap. If we trade for Vokoun, I don’t expect to see Setoguchi and/or Malhotra back just because of cap space.
3 million for a goalie like Turco, Eliis, or some other, seems to be an average for what we could get on the open market. Maybe Wilson is going to roll with Greiss and Stalock… (scary, I know)
Again, I’m not getting a very good feeling for Setoguchi as his cap hit could be anywhere from 3 to 4 (I don’t know anymore after that Wallin signing). Setoguchi could be seeing the door.
The Sharks seemed willing to go with 0 healthy scratches for the majority of the season so they could fit all of that under the cap. I also think we can get a goalie for less than 3, but that really defeats the purpose.
I really don’t think Ellis would be much of a downgrade from Nabby, if a downgrade at all.
But I’m crazy.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We’d have to trade Clowe to fit in Vokoun. And roll with no healthy scratches (or maybe one cheap one…which is nothing new for us). But this lineup doesn’t look much better than the last few lineups that weren’t good enough to win a Cup…
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Manny Malhotra ($2.000m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Niclas Wallin ($2.500m)
Kent Huskins ($1.700m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
Tomas Vokoun ($5.700m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 20; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $59.818m; CAP ROOM: $0.512m BONUSES: $0.930m
I mean, that’s still a contender roster, but it has an average blueline, that hopefully Vokoun could mask. A similar offense to last season, which came up short against Chicago…and there is literally no margin for error.
Sigh, guess we’ll see what happens next.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions
As I said yesterday... and got ripped for it...
I am getting the feeling that DW is going with the D core we have now. And God I hope I’m wrong but possibly no changes and maybe just Greiss in net.
I think that DW is very happy with the top six and might want to bring them back all in tact.
Again I hope im wrong but why would DW trade Murray and keep Wallin? I hope he can trade Huskins but who really wants that contract? And he better not trade Vlassic…
So unless he is trading Clowe or Seto… Which are possibilities… It looks as if DW isn’t going to be able to do much else.
I think most of us were hoping for at least one new defenseman if not two, and a change in net to balance the new D upgrade. I’m willing to give DW the benefit of thr doubt only up to a point.
It just appears like DW has backed himself into a corner.
by skilletboy on Jun 27, 2010 9:31 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I really get the feeling that DW sees Wallin as a top 4 guy. And if he sees Vlasic and Boyle as top 4 guys, and Murray played as a top 4 guy last season, he could very well be satisfied with the D corps we have (I think I mentioned this above in my original post somewhere). And, really, that scares me.
If Clowe is part of a trade for Vokoun, I could live with it, because Vokoun’s a beast. Otherwise, we could have a very weak back end this season.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
For the most part I have scoffed at the idea of getting Vokun because I just thought that the parts we’d have to give up are too great but if this is our D Core come October then Vokun is not only the guy we want but that we NEED.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Yeah if he signed Wallin for 2.5 million then he MUST see him as a top 4 guy. If that’s the case then there’s no way he’d get rid of Murray at the same price when he brings more to the table than Wallin, and has shown solid improvement. I personally think Huskins is just as good as Wallin defensively while also being a much better puck mover, and he gets paid 40% less than Wallin. (who woulda thunk i’d ever be looking at Huskins’ contract as a bargain.)
UGGh this just doesn’t make sense. We still haven’t gotten confirmation that 2.5 million is Wallins actual cap hit right?
Oh and Wallin and Demers were absolutely the worst defense pairing i saw us ice last year. They were terrible together and made tons of mistakes. So there’s another reason that I can’t see us trading Huskins and throwing Wallin on the 3rd pairing, which means we’re very likely sticking with these defense pairings for next season.
I don’t actually think Huskins’ contract is that bad. One year left, $1.7 million? Reasonable enough, and he’s not an albatross on the blue line. Admittedly, the Wallin we saw was not 100%, but in the playoffs I thought Huskins was much more solid—actually a very respectable d-man, especially in the first two series.
But as I’ve said before, even if we can package him in a trade with Clowe/Seto/Mitchell to upgrade the D, I will not be totally satisfied. Taking the $2.5 given to Wallin and using in on the UFA market, while keeping Huskins (again, just fine on the 3rd pairing) and the forwards would be so much more appealing. It sickens me that Wilson doesn’t realize that, but then again, Wilson has been known to really give away some solid pieces in some of his trade deadline deals, so this isn’t a total surprise.
by Timorous Me on Jun 27, 2010 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
And about Wallin playing top 4 minutes.
The highest ATOI for Walin was in 06-07 when he had an average of 18:33… I wouldn’t call that top 4 minutes. And Wallin certainly isn’t getting any younger.
I like Wallin
so I was glad that we signed him, but just like everyone else here – he’s way overpaid and now I’m pissed and would rather not have him, not for that much
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 27, 2010 10:14 AM PDT reply actions
Murray and Seto go bye-bye
That’s the sad feeling I’m getting…at this point, I’ll be a bit surprised to see Malhotra and Ortmeyer back as well…my hopes on Seto are quite low :-/
Go Sharks!
That burger reminds me
I wonder if Wallin has tried In-N-Out Burger yet?
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Well, there was that talk that he was planning on heading back to Sweden after the season.
Maybe In-N-Out is what made him reconsider—and why he needed a big raise!
by Timorous Me on Jun 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
He must have spent all the money from his first contract on Animal Style burgers.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
I think (or at least hope) Options 2 and 3 are the route DW is going to take.
Is there a way for us to fit a goalie, Seto, and Manny all under the cap and using a Worcester call-up as our 12th forward? I’m too lazy to check Cap Geek right now haha
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 27, 2010 12:31 PM PDT reply actions
Question:
What are we expecting Setoguchi and Malhotra to get assuming they resign? Would a 3.2 mil and 2 mil cap hit respectively be enough?
3.2 million sounds right for Seto imo. 2 million defintiely seems like a bit much for Manny, although i suppose he could certainly get that much on the free agent market. I was thinking we could maybe sign Manny for 1.5 million assuming he’s still willing to take a bit of a discount to play on a cup contender.
3.2 for Seto might be a little low, but is reasonable, IMO. I could see him as high as 3.6. Manny at 2 seems about right. Maybe if he takes a discount, 1.7, but he could easily get at least 2 on the open market (hell, he turned down 2 mil a year for 4 years to come to us…he’s definately worth that much).
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Usually I would say 3.2 million for Gooch might be a little low, but then again 4 million for Pavelski was low lol. Right not I wouldnt be surprised if he got 3.2 million.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
2.5 wasn’t low for wallin, and last offseason, 3.6 wasn’t low for Clowe. Point being, of course, that none of us really know, lol.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I hope it's 3.2M
If Seto is as inconsistent as Clowe, then we don’t want to have to trade him do we?
Also, isn’t tomorrow the deadline to give offers to RFAs before they become UFAs? I am not expecting an offer to Gooch unfortunately… :-/
Go Sharks!
I'm pretty sure
DW is the one taking the crazy pills, not you. This fucking blows big time.
by luvsthebigcurve on Jun 27, 2010 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions
And I thought the pricetag had blown my mind...
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
Proud member of the "Keep Marleau Forever" Club
by Lurker Shark on Jun 27, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Not that anyone would trade for him with this contract
But it’s possible that the NTC is for his previous contract, with Carolina. I believe he had to actually waive it to come here, and Capgeek doesn’t indicate there that it’s for his new contract (which I believe they normally do).
by Timorous Me on Jun 27, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Does it really matter?
It’s a one year deal…it’s not like they were planning on trading him anyways.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 27, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
I personally held out hope that after half a season with our current defense pairings DW would come to his senses and realize that Wallin is not worth 2.5 million and maybe he could somehow move Wallin or do something with him to enable us to beef up our defense pairings before the trade deadline.
Well, DW really likes Wallin. And if he likes him, and thinks he can become a top 4 D man for us, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt for now. It definately seems really high as a cap hit, and the NTC is irritating, but probably not an issue overall. But maybe getting to go through training camp will get him fully into the system. And he should be healthy. Who knows, maybe he’ll end up working out fine.
And it’s not even July 1. No telling what the team will look like in a month…or three even. Things are bound to change between now and then, and we could all be looking at the team as a pretty good one by the time the season starts.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 12:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Make no mistake, this WILL be a "pretty good" team when the season starts...
and I think most would agree that Wallin is solid veteran player, that can log good minutes as bottom-pairing defenseman. But pretty good doesn’t win cups, and bottom-pairing defensemen don’t make 2.5m.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions
I honestly think it’s super inflated contracts like Wallin’s, Huskins’, and Clowe’s that keep us from reaching the Stanley Cup Finals. I’d say to get rid of Wilson but then again it’s the straight-up MAGIC that he works that gets us so close to the cup to begin with.
I’m sure we’ll have a good team next year, but it won’t be nearly as good as it could’ve been because of this Wallin Contract.
The Sharks need to hire someone else to handle contract negotiations and signings; and then let DW do everything else. I think if they did that we’d find ourselves much closer to the Stanley Cup.
A few bad contracts and you want to fire the guy?
Yes, he’s getting overpaid but people (including myself) need to calm down. We all thought Huskins was overpaid last summer, and he ended up having a good year for us.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 28, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you continue reading after that sentence? I’m guessing not.
I’d say to get rid of Wilson but then again it’s the straight-up MAGIC that he works that gets us so close to the cup to begin with.
Wilsons a great GM, but he always makes a bad signing like Wallins every year that really hurts the team. Imagine if Clowe was getting paid 2.5 million, Huskins was getting paid 1 million, and Wallin wasn’t signed at all.
We’d have 4.3 million more cap space to worth with. We Could easily sign a top free agent defensemen with that money while being able to keep Clowe, and resign Seto/Manny. We’d still have room left over to sign freaking Tomas Vokoun if we wanted. (although we would have to trade something obviously.)
Capgeek isn’t working right now, but if it was i’d show you the roster we COULD have without the bad contracts DW has signed and we would all cream our pants.
I honestly think it’s super inflated contracts like Wallin’s, Huskins’, and Clowe’s that keep us from reaching the Stanley Cup Finals.
This is literally the biggest overreaction I’ve read here over the last week…and I’ve seen a lot of craziness flying around lately. You mean to tell me that the half a million Huskins is “overpaid,” the quarter of a million that Clowe is “overpaid,” and the million or so Wallin is overpaid (which has yet to actually affect a game, since it was JUST FUCKING SIGNED), is the reason that a team that has consistantly gotten 100+ points over the last 4 years isn’t getting to the Cup Finals? Really? Does something flip in the postseason where those contracts turn everyone into underperformers where they weren’t in the regular season?
The NHL is not your XBOX. Things don’t happen just because you want them to and you decide it’s happening. Everyone else gets a say in what happens. Contracts get signed with a lot more background information going into it than you or I could ever hope to get our hands on. And, you know what, every signing and every trade DW has made has ended up working out in that we have a super competitive team that has a chance to win a Cup every season. That’s a pretty good fucking track record. They haven’t won a Cup yet because of some bad luck, and some underperformances, and, well, because it’s hard as shit to win a Stanley Cup.
Oh, I’m sorry, I guess DW should have just traded for Toews and Kane and Crosby and Keith and everyone else who is young and good before they got expensive…because it’s so easy! Just give them our first rounder and sign the RFAs and do it because that’s what I did on NHL10, and that seemed to work out!
At this point, I’m willing to give DW the benefit of the doubt, being as we are consistantly a contender, and appear to be continuing on that path for the next 4 or 5 years at least.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Zero, even though you sound a bit hostile, I admit your point. Nevertheless, we shouldn’t cite past success (if we define success as being competitive) to excuse what is, presently, a questionable contract. I don’t think anyone here would vote to have DW fired if such a vote existed, but I do think we’re severely overpaying for Wallin’s skill set. Unfortunately, this contract leaves DW with less money to go out and address this team’s more pressing needs, and that’s why people, myself included, are upset.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the Wallin contract is an overpayment as well. But you guys are completely freaking out over it. Combine that with the freakout over the draft, and the freakout over Ortmeyer, and people are starting to lose their heads quite a bit. The sky isn’t falling. I may think it’s an overpayment, but I also tend to give DW the benefit of the doubt, and am willing to reserve judgement until the roster is more or less finalized.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
We all know we’re going to have a good team next season. It’s not about that. The Wallin contract was a bad move by DW, period. There’s nothing else to wait and see about. Our team will not be as good as it could’ve been because we signed Wallin, and at such a ridiculous cap hit.
To reiterate, that does not mean we won’t still have a good team next year.
Your statement is true if you make a few really big assumptions.
You assume that the cap space autimatically would have gone to a top end UFA D man. Except we never spend on high end UFAs, and high end UFAs very rarely even want to come out here to play…despite our consistant contention (perceived lack of West Coast hockey interest, insane travel schedules). Nothing has really changed.
You’re also assuming that the injured, just traded for and not accustomed to our team Wallin will be the Wallin we just signed. The Wallin we traded for, and the one that played for Carolina was very highly praised for his defensive accumen when he came over. He’s supposedly a stalwart. He may still not be worth 2.5, but it may not end up being a gross overpayment once all is said and done.
In the end, it’s all speculation on whether this team is “as good as it could have been,” because we have literally no idea what options are availiable to DW out there. I don’t like to deal in hypotheticals. I just want a team that can compete for the Stanley Cup, and I trust DW to do that, as he has done in the past.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
At the end of the day, we need a top pairing defensemen who can do top pairing minutes. Wallin has never been a top pairing defensemen, he’s a # 5 or 6 defenseman through and through.
Spending 4.2 million dollars on our bottom defense pairing is just a huge waste of cap space plain and simple.
Obviously its not 100% guaranteed that we’d get a top 2 or top 4 guy defensemen, but only because nothing is ever 100% guaranteed. If we have the cap space to give quality offers to FA defensemen why would they not want to sign with a cup contending team?
Z, I think it’s just you and me that are waiting to see what all of summer brings us still. I don’t think for a second DW is done and nothing in the past indicates he’s done.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
So it seems…
It’s not even July 1 yet. We have no idea what DW plans to do once he can sign other team’s UFAs.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions
DW doesn’t have a large track record of signing high end UFAs. Nevertheless, I think a big trade could be in store. There are plenty of quality goalies and defensemen available. Let’s make up for the Wallin overpayment.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Jun 28, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m still holding out the faintest hope for a trade for Vokoun…even though I don’t see it happening.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Like i said, if it wasn’t for the magic that DW works, we probably wouldn’t be cup contenders to begin with.
I’m not proposing wild trades for superstars, so i dunno where you’re getting that.
Clowe was overpaid more than a quarter of a million dude, be real. Now that the cap has gone up and Clowe has had a second straight season with good point totals, his contract doesn’t look look grossly inflated, but really we should’ve been able to sign him for under 3 million at the time. We talk about signing 3.2 million being a fair signing price for Seto, but Seto had a 30 goal season last year, and he scored 20 this season at the age of 23. Clowe was 26 and had only broken 20 goals for the first time in his career when he signed him; we should’ve been able to sign him for 2.5 million or so.
Here's what our team could look like without the bad contracts
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / * Ryane Clowe ($2.500m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / * Manny Malhotra ($1.700m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.367m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / * Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Kent huskins ($1.200m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
Dan Ellis ($2.000m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 20; CAP:$59.4m; PAYROLL: $59.775m; CAP ROOM: $0.555m BONUSES: $0.930m
Now that’s a pretty realistic roster imo.
Huskins was getting paid something like 500-700k with the Ducks so 1.2 million is still double what he was making before coming to SJ.
2.5 million is pretty solid for Clowe after having only his first 20 goal season; he was 26 so it’s not like he was some young prodigy about to turn into a superstar. He had a good season and looked like he could maybe turn into a perennial 20 goal scorer. The term on the contract probably would’ve been only 2 or 3 years though of course.
Paul Martin has already said he wanted to go to free agency, and i’m sure he’d accept 5 million to come play for a cup favorite considering he made 3.8 million last season and he’s coming off of injury.
2 million for Dan Ellis may be a little low, but he has said that he’d come cheap and that he cares about winning more than money. With a team like that one we’d definitely be a favorite to win the cup, so maybe he’d knock 500k off his asking price. Although we still have 555k left over anyways i suppose.
2.5 is too low for Clowe.
He deserved $3 million easily.
I still think he has a good contract, we’re just a cap-strapped team.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
I disagree. Look at a guy like Alexandre Burrows who was signed to a 4 year 2 million/year contract that same year Clowe signed his contract after he just had a 28 goal season. I think Clowe signing a 2.5 mill/year contract for 2 or 3 years would’ve been very fair, especially considering how poor of a skater Clowe is.
Damn. That's an awesome cap hit for Burrows.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
DW must be dating Wallin’s sister or something; this is ridiculous
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 28, 2010 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions
How this news makes me feel...
.
…………
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jun 27, 2010 10:16 PM PDT reply actions
Look out!
She’s got a knife!
It takes a big man to cry and it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. -Jamie Baker
Proud member of the "Keep Marleau Forever" Club
by Lurker Shark on Jun 28, 2010 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions
As Zero put it...
we just need to wait this out before passing judgment. Not that it’s the exactly the same situation, but it took forever to get Heater last summer. This is why I hate June.
Just wondering...
Is anyone considering the possibility that capgeek.com is wrong?! All of the quotes and contract details I’ve seen so far are from capgeek. The NHL/Sharks site says the terms are undisclosed. The most likely scenario (IMHO) is that it’s a two-year deal (or one year with an option) that could reach $2.5M. This makes much more sense based on production, age, and contract terms.
http://www.nhlpa.com/Players/Compensation
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
These salaries are for 09-10
So there’s still hope that capgeek is horribly wrong.
WTF?!
2.5MM a YEAR? Oh no,
And ToddCommish, They said it was a one year deal so i hope its an option..
This wrecks offseason plans.
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Jun 28, 2010 11:18 AM PDT reply actions
OT: news via TSNBobMcKenzie
Waivers, likely for buyout purposes: Cheechoo, Ott; Nokelainen, Vandermeer, Phx; Koistinen, Fla; Kotalik, Cgy.
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jun 28, 2010 11:24 AM PDT reply actions
Never.
They’re being waived to be bought out. They’d have to be brought up through re-entry waivers for half price.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Also, paying Cheech half price is just about as bad an overpayment as paying Wallin 2.5
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I didn’t say anything about Cheech. I was thinking Steve Ott would be kind of a steal at half price. I wouldn’t mind having his annoying ass on our side. He can score too.
Ottawa
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jun 28, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The Ott in that tweet is not Steve Ott, it’s an Ott abbreviated for Ottawa, where Cheechoo is being waived from.
I made the same mistake the first time I read the tweet too…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
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