Trade Targets: Carey Price would be a wise pick up for San Jose
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 3:00 AM PDT
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PrintFor the first time since 2000, the Sharks head into the offseason without a goalie ready to take the reins for the following season. After setting the bar for future Sharks netminders during his tenure in San Jose, it appears as if Evgeni Nabokov might have stopped his last puck for the organization. With Nabokov leaving, who takes over as the starter for an organization with serious cup aspirations?
The Sharks prospect pipeline is filled with young, skilled goaltenders. Thomas Greiss, Al Stalock, Henrik Karlsson, Harri Sateri and Tyson Sexsmith have all been billed as potential #1 netminders. The problem, though, is that none of these goalies is a known commodity. Even Thomas Greiss, who served as Evgeni Nabokov's backup all season, is a relatively untested player at the professional level. Nabokov's ridiculously high number of starts meant that Greiss only played in 16 games this season, and mostly against subpar competition. His stat line of 7-5-1, 2.68 GAA, .912 s% is admirable, but it's unknown how well he'd be able to handle a bigger share of the starts against better competition.
Without any "sure things" in the system ready for this year, pundits have clamored for a short term signing of an established netminder. Marty Turco, Dan Ellis, and even Evgeni Nabokov have been suggested for a one or two year deal, but both Nabokov and Turco would likely command a contract in the $3MM range or higher. If the Sharks do intend to compete for the cup again this year (it's hard to imagine they won't be a favorite yet again this year), should some of the money be allocated to a better defensive unit?
This past year, the Sharks tried to overcome a weak defensive unit with a strong goaltender, which seemed to work in the regular season. However, there was an extreme amount of pressure on Nabokov (and Greiss) to make saves, as the Sharks were in the bottom third of the league in shots allowed in the regular season (31.4) and in the bottom five in the post season (29.1). The need for a better defensive corps is clear, but without any top four guys currently in the system, the Sharks will likely have to look to the free agent pool or upgrade via trade.
That leaves the team in an interesting dilemma, as it would be difficult to upgrade both the defense and goaltending position and remain under the cap. However, there is one option on the market that could help the Sharks improve in both these areas: Carey Price.
Carey Price has had a tumultuous ride through the NHL, fueled primarily by the cutthroat media and fans of the Montreal Canadiens. Drafted fifth overall in 2005, Price was billed as the team's franchise goaltender. However, after a few disappointing playoff showings and a lack of consistency, Price was benched in favor of the older (25) Jaroslav Halak (who I proposed trading for last year), who took the Canadiens to the Eastern Conference Finals leaving powerhouses Washington and Pittsburgh in his wake. It seems obvious that he earned himself a lucrative contract, and it's nearly impossible that considering his performance Monteal would trade him or strip him of the starters spot heading into next year. He will be the starter. But will Halak and Price RFA's, can they justify keeping both?
It appears not, as trade speculation has swirled all year and seems to have heated up in the last few weeks. Montreal needs to upgrade their current compliment of forwards, as their lack of size and scoring was exposed against the Flyers. Using Price as a trade chip seems to be the most logical way to upgrade that unit.
Back to Price. In my opinion he's gotten a pretty unfair rap in Montreal and around the league; his regular season stats are pretty impressive for a goaltender of his age playing on a team of Montreal's caliber. Over the past three years, he has a save percentage of .912 and a goals against average of 2.60. Compare that with Nabokov, who over the same time frame has a save percentage of .914 and a goals against average of 2.30. While Nabokov's numbers are better, there are a few factors working in his favor. First, Nabokov is much older, and the experience plays a role. Second, Nabokov plays in a less critical hockey market, so the day in and day out pressure is less intense. Third, Nabokov has played behind a much better team; this is evidenced in part by the fact that Price has faced an average 26.9 shots per game over the last three years while Nabokov has faced 24.5.
Even though the stats are similar, it would be wrong for anyone to say that Price is an upgrade over Nabokov in the short term. In fact, I'd venture to say that Nabokov would have better stats than Price in the regular season next year if both played behind the same team. However, long term, Price will undoubtedly be the better option for the team, given his age. At just 22 years old, Carey Price is one of the youngest goalies in the league, and he has three years of 40+ starts under his belt. He's just under a year older than former rookie of the year Steve Mason. This type of experience and youth is something not found often in the NHL.
For those who are afraid that Price would block current prospects in the system like Thomas Greiss and Al Stalock, there's a few interesting facts to note. Not only does Price have an NHL track record to boast (making him more appealing in a win now environment) he's also a year and a half younger than Greiss and a month younger than Stalock. He's also almost four years younger than Henrik Karlsson. So when we talk about potential, it's arguable that Price not only has more, but also is a better bet to reach his ceiling than the others.
There are other benefits to Price, primarily that he's huge. The 6'3" 219lb goalie is 3" taller and 19lbs heavier than Nabokov. This means he plays less of a reaction game and more of a blocking game. That type of netminder is one that I think would is better suited for the Sharks as currently constructed, and could be a breath of fresh air to a team that's grown accustomed to Nabokov's antics. We've seen how well these types of netminders can perform in the NHL, and the need for such a goaltender was seen against Detroit and Chicago and especially in the Stanley Cup final between Chicago and Philadelphia. With crashing the net and screening the goalie a must in playoff hockey, there is a premium placed on goalies who (unlike Nabokov) don't necessarily have to see the puck to stop it.
The biggest attraction to Carey Price, though, is the low cost needed to sign him. As an RFA, the team who has possession of his rights already has relative control over his value. Add that to the fact that he was basically (although unjustly) run out of Montreal, and you've got the perfect storm on your hands. A young, potential franchise goaltender for a cap hit on a long term deal likely under $2.75MM? Sign me up.
What's doubly intriguing is the fact that Ryane Clowe would likely be involved in the deal. Don't misinterpret that statement, Clowe is one of my favorite players on the team and is by all accounts an important part of the system and in the locker room. However, with the emergence of Logan Couture as a top six forward, the importance of signing RFA's Joe Pavelski and Devin Setoguchi and UFA Patrick Marleau to long term deals and the need for another top-four defenseman, it's irresponsible to commit so much cash to Clowe. He's a good player, but is the third highest paid forward on the current roster behind stars Heatley and Thornton. While I don't think he'd end up there when all is said and done, it's still not a wise allocation of dollars, as Plank pointed to in his piece yesterday.
Assuming that Price signs for a cap hit of around $2.5MM, which I think is extremely reasonable and likely, moving Clowe for him would result in a net gain of cap space of at least $1.125MM. That money could be used in a multitude of ways and would eventually, in my opinion, make the Sharks a much better team come October. It's not often a trade like this is even possible, but the situation has presented itself for this once in a decade type of opportunity. A young starting who is goaltender brimming with potential, attained in a deal which clears cap space? It's an amazing proposition, and one which has been making its way through media outlets for some time now. The Edmonton Journal, TSN and ESPN have all discussed a deal centering on these two players; the fact that it's beneficial for both teams means that it's probably one of the more realistic rumors out there.
Now, more assets would likely have to be involved for this trade to work; it's possible that a young goalie prospect would have to be sent in Montreal's direction. Depending on the prospect, a later pick could possibly be headed back to San Jose, but that's just adding to the speculation at this point. It's a win-win to me, any way that you slice it.
In my opinion, Carey Price is still one of the best young goalies in the league, and is only getting better. A change of scenery would do him a world of good; he could really flourish under a team like the Sharks. That, in addition to the overall cap savings both short and long term, means that the Sharks will be able to upgrade their team in other areas while still retaining the services of Patrick Marleau if they see fit.
While everything remains nebulous at this point, the talk surrounding this rumor leads me to believe that this will be a serious possibility looked at by Doug Wilson and the Sharks. It won't be an easy one to pull off, as Price is one of the better goalies on the market right now. But I do think it's possible.
Ultimately, the improvement of the team for next year hinges on Wilson's ability to sign a big ticket free agent (something that he hasn't been able to do in years past), but a move for Price would still pay dividends immediately and in the future.
Go Sharks.
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pretty convincing post
i flip flop on whether or not i like trading clowie as often as he goes through his hot and cold stretches. loved that he was a nearly a point per game player during the first two series, hated him (and everybody not named patrick marleau) completely disappearing in the chicago series – although that probably had as much to do with the opposing teams’ respective playing styles than anything else.
trade him if we must, but i’ll be sad to see him go. also…would this mean couture gets promoted to the second line? i love the sound of a gooch-cooch line.
Great write-up
At first i didn’t think Price would be worth giving up Clowe for but the more i had thought about it, the more it made sense. It really feels like the stars have aligned for us to get Carey Price. I feel pretty confident this deal will happen since i can’t see them keeping around such a trade-able asset, and Clowe really is exactly what they’re looking for (a big, young, forward with great hands.)
Here are the 1 of 3 things i’d personally like to see happen with our goal tending situation:
1. Trade Clowe for Price.
2. Re-sign Nabby at a very low cap hit (2.5 mill or less), like the Red Wings did with Osgood back in 2008 (he was only making 1.4 mill a year as their starter.) and use him to mentor/backup the rookie goaltenders in our system.
3. If the other two don’t happen, I’d like to see us sign Jeff Deslauriers of the Oilers (he’s a big 6’4" butterfly goaltender who just turned 26). He’s got some potential and he’d come very cheap (probably a million dollar cap hit or less). He’d be as cheap as going with Stalock, Greiss, or Karlsson as our starter, except that he already has 50 some NHL starts and has maintained above a .900 SV% on the worst team in the league. It’s probably not that likely that he’ll end up being our next franchise goaltender or anything, but we can get him for pretty much nothing i’m sure, and he would be a better alternative than going with a Greiss/Stalock tandem.
Signing Price should definitely be our focus though, and i can’t see Montreal not wanting to make a deal with us.
This doesn’t have to do with goaltending, but just as the Price situation is somewhat of a perfect storm for us, i feel the same about Raffi Torres’ situation. I think Torres could be exactly what we need, and he’d be perfect to fill Ryan Clowe’s shoes.
Torres is a UFA that we could probably sign for very cheap (2 mill or less) after the poor postseason he had after being traded to the Sabres at the deadline this year. He’s capable of scoring 20+ goals, he’s a very physical player who likes to hit, and he could potentially play a Holmstrom-type role for us, which is something we’ve been needing since forever.
You know who else could play a Holmstrom type role?
Holmstrom.
DW, sign that man already. I’m tired of hearing about needing a player like him. Just freaking get him.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
Haha, seriously. Then our transformation into Detroit-West would be complete! (and by complete, I mean it’ll be time to watch the Cups roll in! :-P)
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Isn't Holmstrom old?
Granted, you don’t need to be all that young to do his job, but do we need to invest in a player of his age?
Not that I wouldn’t love to see him in Teal, just wondering what it would cost us.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
He’s 37. So, yes, oldish. But he’s also a stalwart in front of the net still. Put him up with Heatley and Thornton, and watch the two of them light up opposing teams! I suspect it wouldn’t take too much to sign him (assuming he’s willing to leave Detroit).
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, saw that...
That’s retardedly cheap. Also, not surprised he resigned with the Wings. He seems like one of those “Wings for life” guys.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 4, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
he’s like Franzen; he’s loyal, won’t leave his guys there.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 4, 2010 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions
i was actually sad after i heard that.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
Nice, found a very good Carey Price 2010 HL video
Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRdnO5M3Ydk
Man i still remember that game in the regular season against the Canadiens where Price nearly stole the game from us. Our offense was playing really awesome that night, but we still almost lost cuz Price was standing on his head. I’m pretty sure most of the goals we did end up getting were all fairly lucky deflections too; well not that lucky, since i think we put up 40+ shots.
Hey Khazz—can you Do a double-check on that YouTube clip? Link doesn’t seem to work for me. Thx mate.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
by Noctro on Jun 3, 2010 10:06 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice
Sweet video. Well he definitely looks great when he’s on, but how bad is he when he’s off? If he gets as negligent as Nabby when he’s having an off night I’m not sure I like the sound of that lol. It seems this whole thing with Price is almost too good to be true. A surprisingly solid, young goal tender with tons of upside that we could sign for under $3 million? AND they would be willing to take Clowe? Wow. I love Clowe but I feel he would succeed more on a team that really relys on his talent. He just gets overshadowed by the likes of Heatley, Thornton, Pavelski, and Marleau on the Sharks. I guess my final thought is as much as I would hate to see Nabby AND Clowe leave, I see the upside for us with the signing of Price and would willing to sacrifice loyalty for a much improved run at the Cup next year (assuming our blue line gets 1 or 2 improved players as well). GO SHARKS!!!!
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
Hey, nice writeup on Price.
I’ve thought about Montreal’s position before, and while they now have 2 potential #1 goalies as RFAs, the rest of the goalie development system isn’t as, well, developed.
I’d hazard a guess in any deal for Price, they’d want a fringe-NHL-ready backup to come the other way. So as an added part of your speculation, would SJ also be willing to send Greiss or Stalock the other way to get him?
2 quick points:
1. If I’m Carey Price, I sign a 2-3 year deal @ $2-3M (possibly more, who knows), then look for a raise after that. Locking him up long-term at a low cap hit seems unlikely, doesn’t work in his best interest.
2. There will very likely be competition for this goalie – likely from contending teams pushing the cap where goaltending is their biggest ?. I gotta be thinking Philly, Chicago (if somehow they could send Huet the other way, unlikely), Washington (though more likely they stick with Varlamov and Neuvirth), even Calgary and NJ as their star goalies are hitting their last few years.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
I fear you are right. The sharks are not going to the the only team going after Price this offseason. Hopefully that doesn’t drive up the price too much…
that’s punny.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I dunno if there’ll be as many teams as you might think goin after him. Most of the teams that were in need of goaltending have somewhat solved their problem it seems like. The Flyers have Leighton, Chicago seems to be pretty happy with Niemi, and Washington have Neuvirth and Varlamov. Plus there are a a lot of other goaltenders to be had out there like Ellis, Biron, Turco, maybe Nabokov (sadface), and possibly Vokoun.
I agree with you on this one Khaaz. Especially in Chicago. They love Niemi right now, I can’t see him getting replaced for a long time. THE reason the Sharks got swept by them (obviously they have very good forwards and a stronger defense, but Niemi made crazy saves to steal quite a few game tying/OT winning goals).
"Until it's over, I'm not going to tell you it's over." - Nabby
We probably would need to send a youngster goalie back in a trade for Price. But, really, if Price ends up being the answer for us, I’m fine with that. We won’t need all our young goalies. I’d rather trade Greiss than Stalock…but if it had to be Stalock, and they sent a pick back, I’d swallow it and be happy we got Price. I actually really like the kid…he really needs to get out of Montreal, though.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I think i’d rather trade stalock than Greiss. I think we might be more likely to get something back with Stalock and I honestly think Stalock is too small (he’s 5’ 11", smaller than Nabokov) to be the big time NHL goaltender we’re looking for. I see him being very similar to Nabby, but who knows if he’ll end up being quite as good as Nabby; and like i’ve said before, even when Nabby’s playing 100% there’s still a good chance that a lucky deflection/bounce or two will go on just because of his smaller size and stand up play style (i know he’s a hybrid, but he’s usually standing until he sees a shot coming, but in todays NHL goaltenders don’t see the shots coming all that often).
Those are pretty fair points. I could see being more ok trading Stalock than Greiss.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
I can't
blasphemy as far as I’m concerned at this point.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Really? I mean, if its in the context of trading for Price, who we would want to give a shot to, Greiss would still be the backup, and Stalock, being the closest of the goalies to the NHL, would be blocked if he’s not traded. If we don’t trade for Price, I wouldn’t want to trade Stalock.
Also, Stalock’s stats weren’t that great last year. He could still be a beast, but it’s no sure thing.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve heard nothing but good things about Stalock, though. Like this evaluation of him from a Worcester fan over at HF Boards:
The guy is a QB, leader, a guy that can carry the team – and he wants too. He’s going to score a goal someday – great puck handling. I’m sure SJ wants to give him another year in Worcester, but if he goes up to SJ, he should vault over Greiss.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Oh, well, if he’s going to score a goal someday then nevermind! :-P
Honestly, I like the kid, and I like what I’ve heard about him, but I don’t think its a given he’ll be any better or worse than any of our other prospects, or any better or worse than Price, should DW go that route. He very well could be, but it’s no sure thing. And in that context, it’s not completely unfathomable to see him getting traded. I doubt he’s completely untouchable.
In the end, I only care about the Sharks winning a cup…I could really care less who’s in teal when that happens. If trading Stalock helps us get there somehow, then by all means…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Khazz—
agreed. Although, to be honest, I’d rather see Karlsson get the hefty pull-up to backup. Funny thing is I think he’s actually been getting more icetime than Griess and Stalock added together with his loan back to Sweden. I guess it comes back to changing styles (as you hinted at above), it’s probably not a bad idea to breed a guy that can shut down the 3-4-5 almost completely when the threats get close. At 6’-6" (or whatever it actually is (grin)), he seems to fit the bill, and the style would definitely be a change for SJS (D)…
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
by Noctro on Jun 3, 2010 1:25 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Karlsson is an intriguing prospect, but I’d worry about him making a direct jump to the North American game without some AHL seasoning first. Then again, I’ve never watched him play, so he may be more than ready now, and I’d have no idea…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah Karlsson could be awesome for us but it doesn’t seem smart pluck him out of the Swedish leagues and throw him straight into the NHL. I say let him play in the AHL for a bit and if he looks like a human wall down there, and Price or Greiss aren’t playing very well, bring him up to the NHL and give him his shot.
Seems like this entire thread would be simpler and shorter if we had seem really anyone except Nabby in nets last season.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Training camp and preseason
Karlsson and Stalock would get the preseason to show their skills at NHL level. It appeared that Karlsson’s 1 year contract was also an intent to sign him beyond that, since he had to fulfill his obligations overseas. He’s huge, and a good goaltender overseas, even with their bigger ice. Those are the goalies that GMs have been recruiting in recent years. Even if he played exactly like Nabby, his size would leave less scoring space. But I understand that his style is different than Nabby’s. He’s also a hit with the Swedish fans.
"Marleau spanks one off the pipe!" --VS Commentator, game 5 vs Det. 20100508
"Nice Save!" --Nabby, to Blake
it's times like these....
when I wish fan input actually mattered or had an effect on Doug Wilson’s decisions.
Good thing Wilson is a genius and generally does most of the things we want him to do anyway.
Also I do like the prospect of signing Price, I can’t say I really thought about him much until you brought him up, as I had pretty much written him off like most others.
Dude, lemme getchur keys.
price
first of all ‘cheech you,’ halak just turned 25 a couple of weeks ago. he’s not 27. secondly habs are not going to trade price for the same ‘potential’ reasons you mentioned. thirdly clowe and a goalie prospect won’t be enough to get you price. halak is available though. we can discuss a trade around him and clowe for sure
Really? After this year Halak is the available one?
I’m good with that.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
There is an argument that is getting a lot of play up here that Montreal won’t part with Price because he was such a high draft pick (5th Overall) and that trading him would be a black eye for the organization. Obviously Halak wanting to be the #1 guy causes its own set of issues.
That said how you trade a goalie who took you to the conference finals over a a guy who got more unsportsmanlike penalties then saves in the playoffs is beyond me unless you really believe that its Price who truly has the greater potential.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
i do
i truly believe price has the higher upside and i believe many in the organization feel the same. price is 2 years younger – halak is 25…and has time to mature and become the stud goalie he was drafted to be. habs will trade halak. book it
:-)
You are not alone in that estimation. Persons who who know what to look for in terms of goaltender potential, how they move their feet, when their head is aligned with the puck, their recovery, are all in consensus that Price has the higher long term ceiling. The Canadiens know this. In Montreal, it’s been the pressure on Price that has affected him most. Being submitted to the backup role has done wonders for his maturity. While Halak has been amazing hockey fans, Price has become a man.
Montreal will most likely hang onto both goalies as long as it retains the right to them both or an offer comes along that blows them out of the water.
Such a thing would begin with Pavelski, not Clowe.
The problem is will the Canadians be willing to pay for two goalies? Halak’s price is going up towards the 4-5 range easily and Price would be another 2-3 on top of that (I still don’t think he’s earned that much).
Are the Canadians willing to spend 6-8 on goalies because they continue to be indecisive?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The cap will be going up by $2.2M, now even if it wasn’t, is it then that a teams bails on one of its better nd younger assets. It’s now how you build a team.
I’ve heard up to 2 mil, but that’s hardly guaranteed.
In the case of goalies you pick one and use the other to improve the rest of the team. It’s different with other prospects because they can all play.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
If Pierre LeBrun said it, it’s good enough for me.
In the case of goalies you pick one and use the other to improve the rest of the team
Not neccessarily. Who’s to say in a year’s time, Price isn’t the obvious better goalie. Both are young, and a long term assessment is too early. The risk of trading the better goalie and being stuck with the lesser is a vivid reality. There are ways of improving teams other than adding players, and Montreal is very concentrated on keeping a core together after last season’s housecleaning and holding onto what they have for another year.
I honestly can’t see Montreal trading away the sole reason they even got out of the first round, not to mention got all the way to the Conference Finals. No possible way. I also can’t see Montreal, or any team for that matter, paying to have two potential #1 goalies on their roster. Especially when the Habs clearly have huge, gaping holes in the offense that trading one of the goalies could help fix.
I guess we’ll find out what happens, but I still think Price moves. And if he does, San Jose should get in on it, because it would make sense for the organization.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
yes
if you follow what’s bee happening in montreal, you’ll know that halak is probably the available one. he has priced himself out of montreal, his agent alan walsh has burned bridges here…and halak still has a sour taste in his mouth for being bypassed (in the past) by habs management when it comes to playing
That seems really ridiculous to me that they would push Halak out BECAUSE he played out of his mind and now deserves more money. So the choices are:
1. Trade Halak, go with Price who has potential but hasn’t done anything,. but you want to keep him because letting a high draft pick go would make you “look bad”
2. Trade Price, go with Halak, who took you to the ECF.
So the message Montreal wants to tell players is, “Play well, but not too well because we don’t want to pay you.” Scott Gomez must giggle himself to sleep as he lays on his pile of money with lots of beautiful ladies.
Thanks, I’ll make the change. The age was a a whoops on my part.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Hell, I’d take Halak for Clowe too.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure I would, even though I called for trading to get Halak last year, too. I think his signing salary would put us back in a Nabby-like situation. Just like Raffi Torres’ price fell with a bad playoffs, think of what it will cost to deal with The Client.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Wasn’t even thinking of it that way, just was looking straight talent for talent.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, then sign me up, too!
As much as there are complexities from actual salaries, blocking pipelines, and cap structures, I’m sure there’s more to it than you could even imagine. DW has to finesse some other smooth-talking GM that Ryane Clowe is a consistent beast and that we’d be doing him a favor of taking Price of his hands. Plus, it’s actual human relationships, so any deal in the past that was considered a fleecing (Thornton? Boyle? Heatley?) has got to keep other GM’s a little nervous when the phone rings.
Talent for talent, I’d absolutely take Clowe for Halak, and probably even Clowe for Price, and this article does a great job of introducing some of the newbs to other aspects, but that still doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, even if Montreal wants Clowe and DW wants Price.
/end rant
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Not the whole piece, just that one comment!
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Clowe for Price
I think it became very apparent during the Chicago series that Clowe is just too slow to be a top line forward. I love his heart and flashes of offensive skill, but I would make this trade for several reasons.
It would be nice to shed Clowe’s $11 million owed over the next 3 years. We need to re-sign Pavs and Seto, and hopefully Marleau. And it would add to our cap space.
Nabby has done as much as he can, it’s time to move on. It’s likely that SJ will have about $23 million under the cap for next season if we make this move with the Habs. Even if it doesn’t happen, I think we need to cut ties with Nabakov and live with our talented youth in goal.
Finally, after re-signing Marleau, Pavs, and Seto, we still need another couple of good Defencemen. Thomas Kaberle is available at $4.5 million for next year.
I trust that DW will do all he can to improve upon a great season in San Jose. Go Sharks!!!
You spelled "Nabokov" incorrectly... *forehead slap
Is your argument valid after that…?
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
Hmm so Clowe gone for Price, re-signing Marleau, Pavs, Seto… what exactly do you intend to use as trade bait for Kaberle?
Just trying to get other team’s perspectives.
Leafs Nation: A drinking team with a hockey problem.
Clowe would obviously be the piece that would be talked about most in a potential Kaberle trade (I think Burke is supposed to really like him, or someone like him). If he’s gone for Price, I’m not sure what else we’d have that Toronto would want. Maybe one of our younger scoring kids (McGinn, Ferriero), and a draft pick, but I’d hope not, since one year of Kaberle isn’t worth it, IMO.
I’m actually not a fan of trading for Kaberle for the Sharks. We need stalwarts on the blueline…not more puck movers.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I think getting Nabby back is an option if he signs below $3M
Which is essentially saying “Nabby is not an option”.
I think if his cap hit was less, there’d be a considerable decrease in the amount of griping about the guy. He’s been pretty important in the teams success over the past few years.
However, That’ll Cheech You had a good point… defense. I think we focus on Nabby (or any goalie for that matter) because he’s the only guy in that position and it’s easy to attack him. But, the defense was rather underwhelming and routinely disappointing in the playoffs. Especially when the offense didn’t click. That’s essentially what kept us from getting to the Finals this year.
I think signing Price to a slightly higher, but longer deal is not a bad idea. I wouldn’t be too disappointed if Clowe was traded for a guy like that. It’s too bad, but I think Clowie’s cap hit is a bit too high as well.
There are other guys, like Deslauriers and Ellis, but I’d much rather have Price IMHO.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
But, the defense was rather underwhelming and routinely disappointing in the playoffs. Especially when the offense didn’t click. That’s essentially what kept us from getting to the Finals this year.
Eh, our lack of offense was really what kept us from winning against Chicago. When you can’t score more than two goals on fucking ANTTI NIEMI, you have issues…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Ice time distribution
We went down to two lines, both of which got shut down by a much deeper team.
Also, our forwards did not commit to a two-way game. You watch the front of Chicago’s net, there were routinely 4 red jerseys there, and no one in teal.
Man, I could have played goal for Chicago and we still wouldn’t have scored.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The Price ISNT right....
Price? Really? The guy got dropped out of the playoffs cause he was garbage. Hell forever be garbage. No no and No to this guy coming here and playing for us. Id rather have Turco to be perfectly honest.
Bringing Halak in however I would love. Halak is a MONSTER.
This is Team Teal. Sharks and Phins.
Cut me open and I bleed Teal...
Just a reminder, fans, comin’ up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dolphins won a Super Bowl. -Mosul_DolFan, Phinsider.com
Marc Emery ... the Big Bad Bogeyman ... who offered natural seeds that could potentially become a non-toxic, non-addictive, highly beneficial 12,000-year-old plant. Where are the victims? Where are the bodies? "Justice Minister" Rob Nicholson and his ilk should be the criminals imprisoned.
He'd probably be way outside of our budget though... especially after his recent performance
And Price is only 22.. not garbage.
Plus, he wasn’t garbage in the playoffs. Halak was just THAT awesome.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
OH!
STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF CLOWE!
This is Team Teal. Sharks and Phins.
Cut me open and I bleed Teal...
Just a reminder, fans, comin’ up is our "Die-hard Night" here at the stadium. Free admission to anyone who was actually alive the last time the Dolphins won a Super Bowl. -Mosul_DolFan, Phinsider.com
Marc Emery ... the Big Bad Bogeyman ... who offered natural seeds that could potentially become a non-toxic, non-addictive, highly beneficial 12,000-year-old plant. Where are the victims? Where are the bodies? "Justice Minister" Rob Nicholson and his ilk should be the criminals imprisoned.
Why? You like slow people?
If you were a businessman, would you like it if your employees showed up to work once a week?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
I wonder though if we even passed the 1st round this year without Clowe.
He was our best player in that series besides Pavs.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
He showed up, in spurts.
Sometimes physically, sometimes on the score sheet. Though it seemed throughout the season that when he did show up, CLowe basically shot his proverbial wad and then disappeared for the next month. The playoffs didn’t surprise me, that much. When Clowe DID show up, he was amazing. The rest of the time, you’re left banging your head on the table.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. He’d show up, he’d be gone. You never knew which Clowe you were going to get from week to week. Which is why it’s time to trade him based on the potential of him figuring out his consistancy.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Clowe played awesome throughout most of the last half of the year and into the playoffs. His playstyle just didn’t matchup well against Chicago and their defense just played great. They didn’t allow much board play and they seemed to completely shut down the dump and chase strategy that worked so well for us in the previous 2 rounds.
I like Clowe; he’s got a great presence and it’s awesome when he gets really angry because shit gets done when he’s pissed off. But that only happens every so often, and we could do without him.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions
This deal makes a lot of sense for both clubs.
I love Clowe and would miss him, but I think if this deal is out there, DW has to jump on it. And I didn’t realize that Price is younger than most of the goalies in our system until now. That is just even more reason
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 8:54 AM PDT reply actions
Ignore that last half sentence.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Montreal needs guys above 5'11" and we need a young, tested goalie
The question is… how will Price do in the long run (I’d say he’s going to develop rather nicely)? But, it’s a gamble, and I’d be willing to bet Clowe for it.. literally.
How cool? Think Steve Nash...
"Go Sharks!" -Me
The best part about trading for Price is that, even if we give up one of our kids in the pipeline, we’d still have others who could come in and steal the job away from Price should Price not take steps forward in his game. It’s not like all of a sudden we’d be 100% tied to him. It’s a risk, but it would be a calculated risk with proper backups in place…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
The Sharks prospect pipeline is filled with young, skilled goaltenders. Thomas Greiss, Al Stalock, Henrik Karlsson, Harri Sateri and Tyson Sexsmith have all been billed as potential #1 netminders. The problem, though, is that none of these goalies is a known commodity.
And Carey Price is? After a great rookie year, he had a pretty bad sophomore year, and his third year he gets benched in the playoffs in favor of Halak. I think people look at Price and think “#5 overall pick” when they should be thinking about what kind of goaltender he is. Could he turn out to be great? Yes. But he could also be Andrew Raycroft for all we know (won the Calder, remember?). With the Sharks’ proven success in drafting goaltenders, giving the king’s ransom the Habs would require indicates a complete lack of confidence in the goalies in the system already.
In some ways, I could understand going and getting a stopgap veteran (Turco, Ellis, Vokoun) for a year or even three until Greiss or Stalock is ready. I wouldn’t agree with it, but I understand it. But why go out and get a franchise goalie when the cupboard is full?
Although I’d admit my vision is somewhat clouded by the fact that he was drafted highly, I have watched him play pretty frequently over the last few seasons. I see the potential in him much more than I see it in Greiss, and Stalock’s ancillary numbers scare me a little bit.
I don’t think Clowe and a prospect is “a kings ransom”, and I wouldn’t be a fan of trading much more than that for Price. Trading Clowe is a necessary evil right now if you want to retain 8 & 16, and I think the crop of goalies on the market means we can get a pretty significant steal here.
I think Price has shown that he’s more than capable in nets, and I believe he’d be able to improve with the Sharks. If he doesn’t work out, Greiss and Stalock are still there… no reason they couldn’t win the job if they proved they could.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d feel much, much, much more secure in net this next season if we have Price than if we’re relying on a Greiss Stalock tandem to figure it out on the fly and be amazing right off the bat. Niemi’s success this postseason really has gotten people talking crazy. Even Niemi had Huet he had to beat out for the job (not a tall task, but at least it wasn’t handed to him). Greiss/Stalock/Karlsson/whoever, should have to earn their starting spot by beating someone else out, and proving they belong.
Price fits the bill, and could win the long term post himself if he finally starts realizing his potential.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
A known quantity is good
But it’s more than Niemi. Leighton, Halak, Howard. All those guys won their job over established starters.
We had elite goaltending and still suffered because our defensive depth was lacking.
Niemi looks good because he plays behind Keith and co. Halak had Hall Gill who managed to shut down, in succession, Ovechkin and Crosby. Leighton has Pronger. Howard has Lidstrom.
Bring in someone like that, and Greiss Stalock could look pretty good.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Even with a revamped D, I want no part of a Greiss-Stalock tandem. I’m in favor of bringing in Price, but shit, bring in Ellis, make Greiss win the starting job with his play (and give him more than 10 starts). If Greiss legitimately wins the job by playing well, fine, awesome. But to just hand over the reins to them, with them having proven nothing at all, it seems like a stupid risk to take…revamped defense or not.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
We're on the same page as far as Greiss/Ellis
Either way, I want to see our upcoming season include a better ratio of starts between two netminders.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
For sure. If Greiss is going to have any chance to advance his game, he needs to see at least 30 starts this year.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I am surprised that nobody mentions Antero Nittymaki
He has put up similar numbers to Ellis over the last three years, is slightly larger, and likely could be had for a smaller cap hit.
Although I’ve been an Ellis supporter for awhile, I would not mind taking an extended look at Nitty’s way. Nitty is very underrated. Has good flexibility and good size. And actually won a silver medal in Turino for the Fins. He got unfairly trashed in Philly, and was chased out, but he was the better of Mike Smith this year.
My hunch is if Yzerman decides not to go after one of the big UFA goalies during the offseason, then he re-signs Nitty for around $2.5 million. And they may just roll a tandem until Smith’s contract is over next season.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I am interested to see if Turco gives Tampa a serious look now that Stevie Y is there.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Turco and Smith had a very good relationship in the Big D. I could see that happening.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 4, 2010 2:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed that Clowe’s salary is a tough squeeze on the books, but trading him and prospect for a guy with the same career save percentage as Nabby seems like a tough sell to me. And it’s not like Price will take $2M.
Price is more than capable in nets, except for those times when he’s not. I just think the need for a #2 defensemen is much greater than a goalie. Bring the waterboy back!
lol man Nabby’s considered a pretty good goaltender…if a 22 year old has the same NHL career SV% as one of the best goaltenders in the league then i’d say he’s worth trading Clowe and a prospect for.
I think it’s a pretty good case when you think about how that 22 year old would cost half as much as Nabby, and has the potential to improve far past that.
One could also say Greiss and Stalock would cost less than half that of Price, and also have potential to improve. I don’t mean to say Price is a bum. He’s be absolutely dynamite at times. But he’s a young goaltender with really only one great year, and that was three years ago. Hardly a sure thing, and it would cost at least 4 or 5 times more than going with what we already have- a stable of very good, if not great, goaltending prospects.
If Karlsson or Stalock were putting up NHL career numbers similar to Nabby’s as Price has, then i’d completely agree with you, but as of now they are unknown commodities in the NHL and Stalocks numbers really aren’t spectacular even in the AHL.
If Price does cost more than 2.5 million a year then i’m sure we won’t end up signing him.
Greiss will definitely get his shot though.
I personally look at price as almost being a ‘stopgap veteran’ as it is, but with the potential to be a franchise goaltender. He’s already played 3 seasons in the NHL so you can’t say he’s an unknown commodity. We’re talking a lot about his potential but that doesn’t mean that he’s not already a fairly solid goaltender.
His numbers are pretty much the same as Dan Ellis’s and Turco’s numbers, but he has immense potential for improvement and he would be just as cheap if not cheaper than both of them. Vokoun we just plain can’t afford.
I personally look at price as almost being a ‘stopgap veteran’ as it is, but with the potential to be a franchise goaltender.
Exactly!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
That's how I see it too.
Of Greiss, Stalock, Karlsson, Sateri and Sexsmith how many are ready to be an NHL starter? I know Greiss is good enough to platoon. Stalock probably needs a year or two in the AHL (.908 save percentage in the AHL isn’t exactly stellar). Sexsmith struggled in Worcester and needs a few years.
I have no idea where Karlsson and Sateri are though. Can anyone shed some light on the quality of competition in the European leagues? All I know is Karlsson is a gigantor.
Sexsmith was injured, eventually requiring surgery to repair.
I’m writing off last year for him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, but the injury puts him another year behind in development…meaning he won’t probably won’t be ready to challenge for an NHL gig anytime soon still…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Karlsson is huge, but look at what happened to Gustavsson this year. Do NOT rush the goalie prospects.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I think the odds of Karlsson’s heart dying are slim.
Also, the point is to put a good defense in front of him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
“Slim” is not a chance I’m willing to take. Oh wait…
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Gustavsson got exposed for what exactly what he was. A large, pro-fly goaltender with good reflexes but mediocre positioning and recovery abilities. Working with Allaire will help immensely, but it really reinforced my belief as to the absurdity of the bidding war for his services last summer.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Not only does Price have an NHL track record to boast (making him more appealing in a win now environment) he’s also a year and a half younger than Greiss and a month younger than Stalock.
I was buying the “he’s going to block our young goalies” argument until you brought this up, TCY. It’s easy to forget the Habs threw Smokey McFornicate into the NHL fire right after drafting him. My only question is if his shaky play in his five seasons there, combined with the pressure cooker that is the Montreal media, affected him game any.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
Five seasons, fuck have I been asleep?
I think every assessment of Price posted on these pages is absolutely bogus considering most here can’t seem to get a simple fact straight. Take it from here, I’ve seen every pro game he’s played in Montreal, all accounting of his off ice behavior are greatly exaggerated, he’s got greater potential than any goalie drafted since 2005, and there’s little reason for Montreal to pass on him before his contract gets over $2.5 M.
Dream on, in other words, but don’t hold your breath.
Heh, for what it’s worth, I was surprised that this was even floated as a trade. I could see Price going somewhere for a monster package, but I didn’t think the Sharks can afford to offer that much. He’s a potential franchise goalie (I don’t know enough about goaltending to say more) and seems to have matured a lot over the course of this year. I think silky’s mention of Walsh’s poor relationship with the Habs upper management pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for that particular idea for me.
Too bad! It was fun dreaming about it.
"You can always find more jam. There’s never enough jam." - Scott Nichol
by live every week like it's shark week on Jun 3, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest with you, I haven’t seen enough of Price to argue whether he’s good enough to be the next starting goaltender post-Nabby. I don’t see that he’s done anything extra-oridinary outside of World Jrns that earned him a high draft pick. But I think I watch maybe 5-6 Montreal games a year, so what do I know. I’ll just trust TCY in what he says here.
However, I don’t know if bringing a young goalie via trade will work to the advantage of all the other goalies in the system. They’ve worked hard in Worcester or in college or in Finland, and they should get a shot at starter.
If we trade for Price, just the fact that he’s got plenty of playing experience already and that he was such a high draft pick should guarantee he’ll start most games.
If Nabby is let go, I’d sign Ellis, or hell, even Boucher again, and have him split the time with Greiss to see who emerges as the starter come spring.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
This is basically the crux of what I was saying repeatedly in the earlier fanshot on prospect signings. Getting Price will pretty much block the other goalies in our system. They wouldn’t just have to outplay him to get a starting role, he’d have to completely bomb out and they would have to be stellar, mainly because we gave up assets for him and don’t want those assets to go to waste. Is he good? Yes. But other than being rushed to the NHL by an overeager franchise, he hasn’t done anything worthy of giving up assets to get him when the Sharks already have so many goalie prospects.
As for Greiss and Stalock: Greiss’ save percentage was exactly the same as Price last year admittedly in a much smaller sample size and Stalock has consistently improved his every time he advanced a level. I expect it to go up next year in the AHL.
Furthermore, Price’s 3 year NHL career has not been above average. (This year he was 20th in save percentage league wide among qualifying goalies, last year was even worse. His rookie year was probably the only one where he was above average.) Is his true talent level higher than all of the other prospects in our pipeline? Maybe. The chance at maybe is not worth Clowe.
I’m all for trading Clowe, but sure as hell not for another freaking goalie when you can probably get a 1st round pick out of him.
This
And if you’re gonna trade Clowe, get a defenseman that isn’t Niclas Wallin, Rob Blake, or Vlasic.
I see the process with Vlasic as the same as the Wooster kids. He’s got potential, and room to grow. As a stalwart # 2-3 D man? I hate to say it, but when it comes to Vlasic, I miss Erhoff.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
If we were in rebuilding mode, I might agree with you here. But we are not. We are trying to win stanley cups…and we really don’t want to be throwing kids into the fire with no safety net if we are trying to win a Stanley Cup next year. Price might work out, he might not. But there is a very high likelyhood that he will work out. The same can’t be said for any of our current pipeline of goalies. At all. And most of them (Greiss being the only one who this doesn’t apply to), need much, much more time in the minors to be ready for the NHL. Stalock needs at least one more year. Sexy is probably two years away after his injury. Karlsson probably needs at least one year in the AHL on a North American rink to get acclimated to the NA Game. No one is a sure thing.
If the Sharks can get Price, who is young, experienced, and has shown flashes of brilliance (albeit not as often as one would like), they should do it. Price gives them a chance to a) possibly have found their next starting goaltender for the forseeable future, or b) if he doesn’t work out, he’s at least held the fort down for a few years. Besides, he’s only ever gotten around 40 starts a year…so it’s not like we’d expect him to take on a Nabby sized workload. The kids would get starts, and they’d get a chance to steal the job away from him. Nothing should be handed to these kids…they should have to earn a starting spot.
At least, that’s my 2 cents on the issue.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
How did Nabby get the starting job?
A: trial by fire.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
He took over for an injured starter his rookie year and played well enough to not give the job back, if I recall correctly. He wasn’t just handed the reins. He earned his starting position.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
And who's to say none of the goalies in our system couldn't do that?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m not saying they can’t, but I’d rather have some sort of safety net in place in case they aren’t ready… Actually, no, I want a starter who they have to overcome…and if that starter gets injured and one of our kids steps up and owns the job, awesome! But I don’t want to have to rely on that happening…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't that be easy to come by in a trade during the season?
Say after 20 games the Sharks are .500 and Griess and Stalock each have SV%‘s below .900. I’m sure DW could send Huskins and a 3rd rounder to the Islanders for Martin Biron no problem. Those types of goalies are a dime a dozen.
But by signing Ellis from the start, you are stuck with him and the salary even if Greiss (or Stalock) establish themselves as bona fide starters at less than $1 million. Why not see if you can get by with just them first, potentially leaving the Sharks with some cap room at the trade deadline to fill other holes, than preemptively spend the money on a hole that may not exist?
The problem I have with this theory is, people are talking about starting Greiss/Stalock so they have more cap room to throw at the defense. It’s not like we’re expecting to hold onto cap room, just in case.
Otherwise, I see the other side of the argument. I just find it too risky. I’d much rather have someone more proven on the roster for our kids to have to beat, and to be there if they falter.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Biron is a UFA
No need to rush Greiss or Stalock into a position they’re not ready for, especially not Stalock. Greiss may or may not be ready, but from what I’ve seen, I’m not ready to pin my next season hopes on him.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Heatly sucks
In case any of guys weren’t watching the ten games they let him play this season, Greiss sucks. He might be the best German golie out there, but that’s not saying much. The Sharks can’t rely on him, and if they can’t get Nabokov on the cheap (he’s not bad), they need to get another goalie.
While Clowe is a bad-ass, he is not worth over 4 million a year. Neither was Cheechoo, and the Sharks bounced him out. It would be nice to keep the “young core together,” but it should also be remembered that Clowe is in his late 20’s which means he is in his prime already. There is no room for improvement….he already has hit his peak, and when you are a twenty something making more than Rob Blake, you should be producing more than Clowe did.
A couple of months ago, I was talking to my dad about how the Sharks should go after one of the Canadian’s goalies, and its pretty evident who they’ll be sticking with. So, I say go for it, and even if the Sharks get a so-so golie in return, they’ll have cap room with Marleau and Nabby gone to make up for weak ass Heatly with free-agents, and youngsters.
Just FYI
Clowe’s cap hit: $3.6M
Cheech: $3.5M
Rob Blake: $4M
And yes, Heatley’s 39 goals and playing in the playoffs with an injured groin clearly mean he sucks and is a weak ass and doesn’t deserve the e in his last name.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Correct.
I cannot fathom walking around with a torn groin let alone playing hockey at a professional level with one. But Heatley has NO HEART OR NO GRIT!!! FIREDOUGWILSON!
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, wow...
I literally do not know where to begin…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
+10
MeThinksSports hasn't been updated since 2009...i think...
by serrapadre716 on Jun 3, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
dude you are so smart
39 goals, 2nd most on the team behind marleau. in the playoffs, he TORE HIS GROIN, and still managed to help the team with 13 points, tied for 3rd most on the team during the playoffs.
so yea, you’re right, heatley definitly sucks.
MeThinksSports hasn't been updated since 2009...i think...
by serrapadre716 on Jun 3, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
He didn’t say Healtey sucked…he said Heatly sucked. I have no idea who Heatly is, but I’m inclined to agree he probably sucks. Healtey, on the other hand, is a great hockey player!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
i didn't even notice that!!!
omg, that heatly guy must really suck! he had such little impact that i’ve never heard of him! i swear, it’s like he’s not even on our roster! however, that heatley guy is a stud.
MeThinksSports hasn't been updated since 2009...i think...
by serrapadre716 on Jun 3, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
The argument has consistently been made
“The era of the big money goaltender is over.”
With 3 of the 4 teams who made the NHLs final four this season having had netminders split the season, you can argue that the platoon era is back.
Yes, Carey Price is a good goaltender with upside, experience, and a reasonable cap hit. But he certainly requires us to give up a roster player to bring in.
Might we not be better off with the two-headed monster of Greiss and someone else? Someone within the organization? Or else someone acquired for slightly less, like Dan Ellis?
I fully understand trading Clowe to get our money spent in better places, but the organizations biggest need is clearly a top 4 D-man (something these playoffs prove). If we’re talking about trading Clowe, which is a sensitive subject for many, shouldn’t that conversation be about someone like Kaberle or Hamhuis or any of the other names we’ve floated around?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
With the amount that Dan Ellis has been brought up on this blog, I can’t think we’re the only ones that really want that guy. I wonder how cheap he’ll really be.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Good point
“Cheap” is all relative at this point. But assuming the NHL Salary structure is a bit of a group think, you have to assume that whatever contract Price is had for, Ellis would have to be less.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I can’t stop reading his tweets…
He may have focus issues thought:
Just saw a lady dancing and whistling to Yankee doodle in the grocery store and in my distraction almost crashed my cart into a 90yr old man
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
by Evilducks on Jun 3, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
New policy for if we sign Dan Ellis
No one is allowed to whistle Yankee Doodle at the Tank.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Hah, dude plays in a beer league as a forward.
He’s on the Red team, not as a goalie, tied for 2nd on points.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I wonder if Jake Ortmeyer is Orts’ brother or Orts himself.
Fear the Fin - all Evgeni, all the time.
That’s one of the reasons why I sort of want Ellis. His tweets alone are worth a contract.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
right on
My favorite Ellis tweet sequence:
Sees alligator
Throws rock at alligator
Says alligators are fast
Advices against running in dress shoes
Thanks Ellis!
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jun 3, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha, yeah, he’s been entertaning as hell to follow on Twitter since I signed up like a week or two ago (and to think I was so resistant to Twitter…its actually kinda useful!)
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I still irrationally hate twitter, I just find some people entertaining… Something is weird about being able to read random, unedited thoughts from our favorite sports stars. (Or ones we’d like to become our favorite sports stars).
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Twitter is a great source of news, as well. I mean, I found out Michael Jackson was dead like 30 minutes before it was reported by any major news source. And it’s pretty much invaluable for the trade deadline and free agency Christmas,
But, yeah. Very entertaining reading celebrities’ tweets. Like when Jose Cansenco went off the deep end.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
So did I.
It was insane that the web knew it before CNN.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind though...
All of the “platoon-style” goaltending tandems that have had success are NOT two unproven rookies.
They’re usually a combination of a decent (but not amazing) serviceable veteran, and an up-and-comer young guy.
Chicago: Huet – Niemi
Philly: Boucher – Leighton
Detroit: Osgood – Howard
Anaheim: Giguere – Hiller
Boston: Thomas – Rask
Habs: Price – Halak
I like the idea
With Price, there is nothing but an upside to his potential, but when you have to give up a player like Clowe, I’m uncertain i’d to the trade due to sentimental reasons( I <3 CLOWE =( ).
So then I try to find another guy to trade for Price… no such luck, Clowe is the perfect piece to our part of the trade. So, basically I would execute this trade in a heartbeat and I hope DW does too (after July 1st of course)
If this was facebook, I'd be smashing the 'does not like' button.
Ellis would be the smart choice, IF not sticking with the system. I’ve said it numerous times before: the Sharks are probably the top team in the league at drafting goaltenders. That’s a bold statement, seeing as there’s 29 other teams out there.
Price has had his moments, and has proven himself as streaky. The youth argument I’m hearing is only giving me one thing: an excuse. If you’ve played horribly, and it’s because you’re young, then call me when you’re 50 because I’m sure you’ll get your shit together by then.
Greiss had one bad game, and that was his first NHL start, ever. Chalk it up to nerves, I guess. Even in that first start, the head was in the right place. No cheapies, a la Nabokov. Pressure doesn’t deprive his gameplay. If an early goal goes in, it doesn’t open the floodgates, a la Price.
Ellis and Rinne battled back and forth, and Rinne’s probably the glaring standout on the Nashville team. That being said, if Rinne wasn’t there, Ellis was a fucking beast before Rinne was there, got injured, lost his job. In the games he has played, Ellis showed that he hasn’t lost a step, is still young enough, is healthy, and is a bitch to play against. His technique in goal is methodical, and isn’t based on a ‘hybrid’ technique.
When I hear about a ‘hybrid’ technique, it tells me you’re a butterfly goalie that’s too slow to butterfly, so you’re trying to be a standup goalie that’s never done it before. All you see is flailing from there on out. Bad news, folks. Nabokov’s style was consistently labeled as a hybrid.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 10:40 AM PDT reply actions
If this was facebook
The site would be a thinly veiled attempt to suck privacy data from users and our founder would be a complete douchebag, but I digress.
I will never understand your Nabby hate compared with your man-crush on Gresis. No cheapies? LA anyone?
I’ll confess that Greiss has been held back by Nabby dictating his own schedule, so he still has lots of untapped potential. But the guy still plays miles outside his own crease. On this years Sharks team which had swiss cheese coverage on the back door plays, it would have been fatal. If you want to roll with Greiss in platoon with someone, then you need better D.
On that point, I think you and I agree that trading for Carey Price is a bad option.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I’m not against trading for Price, but I think he’s going to be overpayed for what he’s accomplished all based on his draft position 3 years ago.
My concern is getting the defense we need to fill out our real need, and if we trade away Clowe then what are we willing to part with to get the defensemen we need? It’s not like we have a good track record of getting free agents.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Greiss was thrown in at LA, after nabokov surrendered the first 5 goals on like, 8 shots.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
That was still a terrible goal to allow, especially after they had fought their way back.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
And the first 5 weren't?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t like the “lesser of two evils” fight that’s happening here. Stop.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I should probably explain that I’m the internets police.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Oh noes! The internets police! Runnnnnnnnnn!!! :-P
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
ZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I have your address! Your IP address! Har har har har
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Oh, good, that will lead you to my work! :) I’M UNTRACEABLE AFTER 4!!!!!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
And then...
I’m gone
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
And as for Nabby 'hate', I don't hate the guy.
He’s lost a step. He lets in flukes when he needs to be giving his team a boost. He’s never done that. Ever. He wins 40 games a year, because he starts 70+ games, and has one of the top ranked offenses in the league. He’s a product of the system. He’s not the goalie of the Sharks. He’s the guy standing behind the Sharks while they win the games. And if the Sharks have an off night and try to relieve some of their pressure by letting the goalie do a little of the workload, it’s obvious. Nabokov may have been able to do it 5 years ago, but as of now, he simply is not capable.
I am thankful for Nabby, and wish him the best. He was wonderful in San Jose. But being honest with myself, I can say that Patrick Roy, he is not.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Other than Ellis, not for the 2.5 mil price
I truly believe that the 2.5 mil we save with a “lesser” goalie will help buy us that D-man who will compensate for that goalie’s shortcomings.
Antti Niemi says
Don’t spoil my secret!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
He’s an RFA, I believe. We’d have to offer sheet him, or trade for his rights.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but if we can get him below 990k he’d be free. Worst case scenario though, he’d cost us a 3rd round pick.
Assuming Edmondton doesn’t match…and a contract offer that low, I’d have a hard time seeing them pass that up.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
someone has a man crush
or just wants to see if his name will fit on a Sharks jersey. :P
Do not want.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
don't fully support this
but i definitly wouldn’t mind if it did happen
MeThinksSports hasn't been updated since 2009...i think...
So, when do all our promising goalies in the system get the chance to be proven commodities?
At some point the team is going to have to jump in the deep end and let some of these promising goalies have a chance. It makes a lot more sense financial and in the long run to sign someone like aforementioned Dan Ellis short term and let Greiss, Stalock and Sexsmith get cracks at some playing time until one of them sticks. There’s always the possibility none of them do, but I wouldn’t say Carey Price is exactly a ‘proven’ commodity either.
Unless the Sharks plan to shop at least two of the group of Greiss, Stalock, Sexsmith and Karlsson to replace whatever we’d lose in a trade for Price (and this is where having no real NHL experience lowers their values), it doesn’t make sense to me to trade off offensive pieces for another young goalie who just happened to get rushed to the NHL a bit prematurely.
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
I really don't understand all this outcry for the pipeline goalies...
Bringing in someone like Price doesn’t automatically shut the door on them! The only reason we would even consider bringing in a goalie from outside the organization is because none of our kids have proven that they are ready. Hell, they could be 2-3 years away from ready. And if Price does become the goalie we all want and shuts the door in the playoffs and helps win us multiple cups, is anyone going to really be all that upset that we didn’t use the internal goalie options?
And if Price falters, the kids are going to get their chance to unseat him. Price has never started more than 49 games in a season (and that was only once), so whoever we have backing him up (Greiss, unless he’s the one traded…then it’s either Stalock or Karlsson, probably) is going to get a decent number of starts. Enough, most likely, to prove they can do a better job.
But if we just throw Greiss and Stalock in there this year, with no safety net, and they aren’t ready…we’ve essentially wasted a year of contention. And I don’t know about everyone else, but personally, I’d rather not waste Thornton’s last year under contract experimenting to see if our rookie goalies are ready to carry this team to a Stanley Cup.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the outcry for the pipeline lies solely in the fact...
…That we have 10,000,000 goalies stuck in it.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 3, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Bringing in someone like Price doesn’t automatically shut the door on them! The only reason we would even consider bringing in a goalie from outside the organization is because none of our kids have proven that they are ready.
It effectively does. Nabby never got a chance to beat Steve Shields until he became injured. Unless you’re counting on an injury to Price to allow the youngsters to play, they simply aren’t going to get a chance to usurp Price without him completely flaming out. Goalie prospects are almost completely without value until they’ve gotten some NHL playing time or have a very strong track record in the AHL. (See Bernier and Rask.) If Price doesn’t turn into a sieve, no one is going to unseat him until his contract is up because we had to give up relatively major assets for him. I don’t want a chance for the kids only if Price falters, I want an even chance for everyone. Getting Price essentially removes everyone else from the equation unless Price is useless.
These are the possible scenarios:
Get Price, he turns into Toskala, try out prospect goalies, none of them succeed, we suck.
Get Price, he fails, we try out prospect goalies, one of them is our new Nabby, in the process of trying out prospects, they’ve shown themselves capable of NHL time and we can trade them for something of value. (maybe mid round picks and prospects)
Get Price, he succeeds, we never get to seriously try out a prospect goalie, and they all go to waste.
Get Ellis/Nittymaki/Biron, we try out prospect goalies, one of them is our new Nabby, in the process of trying out prospects, we prove they have some worth and trade the rest for something of value).
Get Ellis/Nittymaki/Biron, we try out prospect goalies, they all flame out, and we turn into Philly for a bit.
The whole “goalies aren’t that important” thing applies to both cap space and other assets. They aren’t worth $4m+ in cap space and they aren’t worth trading away valuable assets for.
I don’t think people understand how ridiculous unlikely it is for all of our goalie prospects to be useless; Greiss alone is almost definitely than the Price of 2009-2010 who would alternate between major suckage and decent play every other game, and also don’t realize how likely it is that one of them might in fact be better than Price and that getting a successful Price would waste that potential.
“Get Price, he fails, we try out prospect goalies, one of them is our new Nabby, in the process of trying out prospects, they’ve shown themselves capable of NHL time and we can trade them for something of value. (maybe mid round picks and prospects)”
This makes no sense. You ditch Price at that point.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I really don't understand....
Why at times you discuss Price as if he’s another goalie in the system at times (“if he falters, the kids are going to get a chance to unseat him”) but that he has more right to start then in of our current young goalies (“none of our kids have proven they’re ready”)? Well, no shit they haven’t proven they aren’t ready, none of them have been given ANY opportunity to get that chance (Greiss playing sporadically doesn’t counts either).
You act like getting Price would be a win-win. I hardly see it that way. We’d have to trade for him (or give up some of the few draft picks we still have), giving up some nice talent because of his high draft pick and the fact that he had a good rookie year (3 seasons ago). If he does well, fine, we got a goalie at a cost and will be paying him a higher salary years earlier then we would have to with one of our own. Or he fails, we’ve wasted talent to get him and he’ll now be twice a goalie prospect that didn’t live up to the hype and we’ve taken step back and wasted time that could’ve been spent grooming our current prospects. As Plank mentioned also, we aren’t exactly rolling in hot, non-goalie prospects at the moment, so throwing away a Clowe or Seto to acquire him or giving up the few draft picks we have both seem rather rash.
Not to mention this year I watched him play extremely mediocre in a conference that plays a more defensive style and overall lacks the fire power of the West. He lost his job when the entire hockey world of Montreal was dying to give him the Roy Crown. What makes you think Price is a better solution? I just don’t see the logic in trading for more unproven talent when we have some of it ourselves. I didn’t say go with two rookie goalies either. Sign a solid guy, give our guys a chance and find one that’s solid enough to do the job (as we seen, it doesn’t take a truly dynamic goalie to take a team to the Cup Finals).
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
He would have more right to start based on his experience and decent (albeit fading in Montreal) track record in the NHL. He would be the presumptive starter this season because of his NHL experience. But he wouldn’t get every start like Nabby did, and we’d have kids up to back him up that would get a good number of starts as well…and if he faltered, and the backups (greiss or whoever was up) played well, then the logical choice would be to make the switch. I don’t think those are conflicting ideas.
And I believe that getting Price would be a win-win. The only way its a loss is if Price fails, and all our remianing pipeline goalies also fail…which would be a loss if we didn’t trade for Price too!
Also,
I didn’t say go with two rookie goalies either. Sign a solid guy, give our guys a chance and find one that’s solid enough to do the job (as we seen, it doesn’t take a truly dynamic goalie to take a team to the Cup Finals).
I didn’t really mean this as an entirely direct reply to you (even though I used your post as a jumping off point) but more of a general post to everyone who seems worried about our pipeline when bringing in a goalie. I like the idea of getting Price, and I’ll defend it (this whole thread has been an awesome conversation), but if the Sharks don’t trade for him, and instead sign someone like Ellis, I’m fine with that too. This thread just happens to be about Price, and I like the idea.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh the good old days when we had Kiprusoff, Toskala, and Nabokov as our goalie choices.
by U Guys R Good on Jun 3, 2010 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Are we sure that we made the right choice? I know we didn’t make the wrongest decision.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
omggg
Carey Price is NOT going to play 82 games a year! Greiss will get his shot, and so will others if they earn it. Stalock has gotten a lot of wins in the AHL but he’s playing on a great team, if he shows great improvement than he can get a shot in the NHL assuming Price and Greiss aren’t tearing it up as well.
I say we sign Uncle Niemi
Auntie Niemi has been money in the playoffs, so Uncle Niemi should be pretty decent.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
I don't agree with
trading Clowe. True his consistency is maddening, but he does show up. Since the 07/08 playoffs, when he finished 2nd in points, he has produced. #7 in points in 08/09 regular season and playoffs. #5 in points in 09/10 regular season and #6 in the playoffs. That says, to me, that he can be a top six forward.
As for his cap hit, he is about a 20-25 goal and 50-60 point player. For the 09/10 season the players that performed on par with Clowe had an average cap hit of 4.4 million. And here are some of the players around Clowe: Spezza, Dustin Brown, Phil Kessel, Shane Doan, Vanek, Gomez, McDonald, Prospal, Whitney.
I say we keep Clowe and build our defense. I feel that trying to find a veteran goalie is the conservative move and I want the Sharks to be aggressive and build the defense.
Are you seriously claiming that Clowe is as good as Spezza, Brown, Kessel, Doan, Vanek or even Gomez and Whitney? (Maybe Whitney will be worse in the future.)
But there is no way anyone takes any of the first 4 over Clowe, ignoring contracts. But they all have other major values. Both Kessel and Spezza were injured for quite a while, or else they would have had much more point production. Vanek is one of the best in the leagues at screens and tips. Doan is a great leader and Brown is by far the best skater in the league at drawing penalties. And you saw Gomez’s performance in the playoffs. (And Whitney has had several Pt/G seasons.)
I love this idea
Getting Price and trading Clowe would be a great move for the Sharks imo.
Our future Captain
Why is it either/or?
If we play the youngsters and they suck, does anyone not believe that DW wouldn’t go out and get a Dwayne Roloson or Martin Biron or Manny Fernandez during the season? And that he wouldn’t be smart enough to leave himself a little cap space to do so?
I thought Clowe made great strides the last quarter of the season. TMac needs to do a better job protecting him, though, if he is going to be successful. Ill be happy if he stays, and will need to judge the return if he is shipped out.
Hmm I wonder...
if we could lure Andrew Ladd (RFA) away from Chicago with the resulting cap space.
It would provide a much needed boost in the speed department.
The defense would still be an issue though.
Clowe vs Price
Some rumors at Montreal are telling that the montreal canadien gm, Pierre Gauthier, is interested at Ryan Clowe.
Clowe vs Price????
http://www.hockey30.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=1120:clowe-vs-price&Itemid=18
My theory:
Keep Clowe
Sign Price
Everyone has a right to be stupid. I just abuse the privilege.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
what language is that?
i cant read that, lol
"Don’t fuck around with Marleau. He’s like an incredibly awkward Jedi master." -adingoatemyname
by Pavelskinator on Jun 3, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
never mind
french it is…
"Don’t fuck around with Marleau. He’s like an incredibly awkward Jedi master." -adingoatemyname
by Pavelskinator on Jun 3, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
English version?
I don’t speak or read bjnr oxngfsnb on. Lol!
Everyone has a right to be stupid. I just abuse the privilege.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Google translate:
However, our colleague from Edmonton says that a transaction between the Montreal Canadiens and San Jose Sharks would make sense. Matheson would see Ryan Clowe turned up to Montreal for Carey Price.
The journalist said that the Canadiens need to grow in the attack and a power forward will greatly help the team. On the other hand, the Sharks need a goalie for the future and Price would be a perfect candidate.
Wasn't the Edmonton article just a hypothetical "this deal makes sense" kind of thing?
I don’t think in the Edmonton (Journal?) article it says anything about it being a concrete deal, just saying a deal would make sense.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions
McLaren
…and hopefully Nichol, lol.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh, but he’ll throw down. And he’s a pest! Size or no size, there’s a reason people whine that he’s a dirty player…he does the grunt work.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
He knocked down Zdeno Chara once, who is a foot taller than him. Don’t underestimate Scott Nichol.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
i am not underestimating him.
i love him, he is a great energy guy and will do all the dirty work and i understand that. but we need some one who will stand tall and not get shoved around.
That was glorious. I laughed for 5 solid minutes after that, and missed part of the game. Awesome!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. My favorite Nichol moment, I’ll never forget it. He doesn’t need any more size than he’s got to get the job done.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Mine was his 20 questions
Q: Team you hate playing the most?
A: The Red Wings.
Q: Player you hate playing the most?
A: Anybody on the Red Wings.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He’s really funny… I mean, a real character.
I just have a lot of respect for guys that size who’ve got huge-ass balls like he does.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:18 PM PDT up reply actions
His first interview with the Sharks after signing was pretty funny as well – “Buying a house here is so different from Nashville. They’re like twice as much but only half the size.”
But yeah, his 20 questions was hilarious. Why Nashville game him up, I have no idea.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
yeah Goc has really been smokin’ since he got there. I was surprised myself.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Nichol’s one of my favorite Sharks, hands down, and I think he’s a must-sign. It’s all that spunk and grit in a compact frame, I guess it’s my own narcissism or something, maybe he just reminds me of me :P :/
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Yee! I saw that live!
Unfortunately, Chara got revenge… in the shootout.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
Raffi Torres!
Like i said above:
Torres is a UFA that we could probably sign for very cheap (2 mill or less) after the poor postseason he had after being traded to the Sabres at the deadline this year. He’s capable of scoring 20+ goals, he’s a very physical player who likes to hit, and he could potentially play a Holmstrom-type role for us, which is something we’ve been needing since forever.
err if were just talking about throwing down, then i guess McLaren’s our guy. I don’t think we really need a fighter though.
Tell that to McLaren’s face! lol…
BEAT DOWN!!!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
dont need a fighter?
look at the flyers, they play some good hard hockey and they play tough. they are in the stanley cup
Haha, yeah, teh Flyers have like 5 fighters. But, all of a sudden, Aaron Asham has hands, which is odd. Hartnell, I think, leads his team in scoring in this round. Carcillo was playing decently, and on the first line, before the Finals. Their fighters have some skill too…which is kinda fun to watch.
I wonder if McLaren ever projects to be an Aaron Asham type…because they sure are useful.
Of course, I think the Ducks led the league in fights, and finished 11th in the conference…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s got some scoring touch, more than Staubitz or Shelley ever had.
There is also Mashinter, who scored a decent amount of points for Worcester and never shies away from physical contact.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Plus, Mashinter’s nickname is “Monster Mash”
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
That might be one of the greatest nicknames for a hockey player ever.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
i never said fighting = wins
but it helps to let the other team know to not fuck with us. and if they do, they will get it
He may be capable of 20+ goals, which he has done 2, but he hasn’t had 20 goals since 05/06 and that was also the last time he cracked 50 points
He could be our very own Dustin Byfuglien, and i don’t think byfuglien has ever scored 20+ goals.
He would be a good replacement for Clowe imo. His hands might not be as good as Clowes but he’s faster, much better at hitting people, and most importantly, he’s good at crashing the net.
The Sharks really do need someone to get in the goalie’s face. I think that’s the one big thing they’ve been lacking on offense in the playoffs. They don’t put the personnel in teh right places to get a bunch of dirty goals…and dirty goals win championships!
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Byfuglien was also a D-man for most of his career...
and is still learning the forward position. I bet he easily cracks the 20+ goal mark next year if he plays on that Chicago top line all season.
I agree with Zero that we need a player to park his big ass in front of opposing goalies. However, I don’t see that guy being 6’0" Raffi Torres, and I disagree that Torres is much better at hitting people.
I would love for Clowe to change his game and be the beast in front of the net, but it ain’t gonna happen.
I’m half convinced they should just sign Holmstrom. He only made 2.25 million last year…and it shouldn’t take any more than that to sign him to a deal. Yeah, he’s 37, but he doesn’t need to do much more than be himself and let Heatley and Thornton fire pucks at the net around him…
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
lol you think he would sign with us instead of just resigning with the Red Wings?? i’m all for it if it’s possible. Although i wouldn’t want to spend more than 2 mill on him really.
Probably not…doesn’t mean DW shouldn’t try if Holmstrom is still around on July 1.
This is where we hold them! This is where we fight! This is where they die! Remember this day, men, for it will be yours for all time.
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions
I am a huge proponent of athletes just needing a change of scenery. Time and time again a simple trade or free agent signing suddenly breathes new life into stars thought to be dropping out of their prime or they were huge disappointments the previous year
That said, I’m not too sure about Price unless the Sharks were planning on making him the franchise goaltender. There is a good point about his age, but is youth really what we’re looking for when most people suggest a 1-2 year short term deal to allow our farm goaltenders to develop? I know you brought up this point in the post as well, and signing a long term deal could also alleviate a lot more cap pressure.
But Price has been hugely inconsistent in Montreal. I think it was 3 years ago Price almost carried the entire Canadien team into the 8 seed against Boston, and people were treating him like the next Roy. The next year he sends them into a losing record, forcing what was a timeshare into the eventual Halak starter role. I do love long term signings as it brings stability to a team, but I’m not sure Price is the guy to do it with, especially since we HAVEN’T seen any of our prospect goalies get the starting role. If not now, when? As mentioned most of them are older than Price.
Then you look at a guy like Michael Leighton, who will be a free agent this year and is getting paid under 1m. Obviously he’ll get a huge pay raise, but something more than what is being predicted of Price is probably not going to happen. If Philly resigns him, they’ll be stuck with 3 quality goaltenders in Emery, Leighton, and Boucher. Maybe this is just bias because I love the guy’s personality, but getting Boucher back in San Jose doesn’t sound too ridiculous. He had great stats as a back-up to Nabby, and he played stellar in the playoffs this year until he was injured. Not sure about Emery due to the pricetag that comes with him, but it will be really interesting to see who Philly keeps, since they’re both established starters who don’t need a timeshare. They might hang on to both due to injury history, but either way I think at least one of the three are gone, and it’s not likely going to be Emery. We could snag the one they let go for a really cheap price, allowing us to either keep Clowe or bolster our blue line a bit more.
Emery's legs are messed up--real bad. Like potential career-ending bad.
Flyers may void the rest of his contract if there is such a clause.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Emery’s only on a one year deal— he’s set to become a free agent this summer.
Hear ya on his legs though. I’m not sure if the specialist he saw was able to fix the issue, but it was most definitely career threatening.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
repeat after me
shark fans. you are not getting carey price. you are not getting him for clowe and you are greatly undervaluing him. he is 22 years old, playing behind a team that was crappy defensively (until the playoffs)…that scored a grand total of like 16 goals in his last 14 starts. up until the all star game last year he was 16-4, 2 gaa and 930 sv %…he sprained his ankle and was never the same.
his first year he helped lead the habs to first in the conference (1st time in almost 20 years) and expedited the process of trading huet.
he is a WJC gold medalist
and has won a calder ALL before age 22.
he is NOT getting dealt and he is not getting dealt for your fictional packages. he is far better than ellis and in defensive system like the preds he would put up sick numbers.
goalies rarely mature before their mid to late 20’s, and he has put up numbers at this age that are similar to the likes of roy and bordeur – not saying he will be them, but the stats don’t lie.
he was a model player during the playoffs.
if SJ wants halak a deal centered around clowe could probably be discussed
We'll see...
To be fair, we don’t know anything of what either GM is thinking. All we have to go on is a few rumors of potential deals being discussed…and not a single one talks about Halak being traded. You may like Price better, and you may very well be right, but that doesn’t mean Price won’t be traded. He’s been consistantly boo’d and ridiculed in Montreal for the better part of a year now. Halak was just the savior that beat Ovechkin and Crosby. But Halak is the one leaving? I have a hard time believing that, but we will see.
Until then, Sharks fans are free to speculate on whatever the fuck they please.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
you
can have whatever ‘fucking’ wishful thinking you’d like. spare me the melodrama of being booed every time he played. that is WRONG.
the team was booed during the playoffs last year and he mocked the crowd. which he later admit was WRONG.
there was some tension this but none in the last 2 months.
he isn’t going anywhere and certainly not for shark garbage.
if you had read my initial post which clearly you didn’t, you’d know
there is tons of tension and bitterness with halak, his agent and the habs.
the habs are not going to guarantee the starters job to halak and they are not going to pay him
4+ million based on 1 good year and 1 very good playoff
The arrogance is astounding. Chill out, dude.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Just building the package off the rumors I’ve heard.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 3, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Price didn't win the Calder
But I agree, a package of Clowe and whatever isn’t good enough to grab Price. Because I expect Bob Gainey to demand a king’s ransom.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
gainey
bob ganey is not the gm of the habs
Pierre Gauthier is, we know.
Since you’re here, could you translate this article for us? It’s nothing but a journalist’s speculation obviously, but the translation of the last paragraph doesn’t make sense to me. I’m under the impression it means he doesn’t believe Gauthier would give up just Clowe for Price but I could be wrong.
Here is the Google Translate version:
It should say that Matheson Clowe is sixth overall pick and is much less promising than Price. Clowe has perhaps been a good season by amassing 57 points, but Pierre Gauthier will never agree to let his guard against the big forward, however effective it may be.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
There are probably a few errors in this translation, but this is what I got from it:
It should be said by Matheson that Clowe is a sixth round pick and is much less promising than Price. Clowe may have had a good season by amassing 57 points, but Pierre Gauthier will never agree to give up his goalie for a big forward, however effective he may be.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
I don’t see how it would matter what round Clowe was picked in.
I think Zetterberg was drafted in the 6th and Datsyuk in the 7th, Steve Bernier was drafted in the first… I’m sure they’d happily trade price for one of the first guys. I know Clowe isn’t either one of the former, but he’s much better than the latter.
What’s important is Montreal needs a big top 6 forward and has a spare goalie. If they choose to move Price then I don’t see how Clowe doesn’t fit their needs (and a goalie prospect).
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Article says, pertaining to the question of Sharks and Habs:
Matheson believes Price vs Clowe would make sense. He would really see such a trade happen.
However, the author of the article argues that Matheson should be aware Clowe was a 6th round pick and despite having a good season at 57 points, Gauthier would not trade Clowe for Price no matter how effective he is.
Which is somewhat of a dumb argument. So the Habs wouldn’t trade Price for Datsyuk because he was a 6th rounder?
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 5, 2010 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions
you’re right.
bob ganeyis not the GM of the Habs. Who is Bob Ganey?
I dunno. For a guy who says he follows the Habs, it’s more understandable for me to be mistaken about their recently resigned GM than for you to be mistaken about Carey Price’s trophy shelf.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are you so sure about what’s happening in Montreal?
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
cause he's the GM.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jun 3, 2010 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
because
unlike 99.9% of the people speculating here, i actually live in montreal and have friends who cover the hbas
You make it sound like you’re amazed more of us don’t live in Montreal. This is a SHARKS blog. Maybe you’d have more credence here if you hadn’t just signed up for FTF today, and it’s your first SB blog.
If you want to flame the regulars here, be warned that you can be banned.
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
INTERNETS POLICE!!!!
:-P
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh shit, what did I start?
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
So
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Jun 3, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Someday that will die…
today is not that day.
I’m sure he’s seen the replay!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
It was either that
Or assume he burned cars because he lived in Montreal…
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
You know, in my original reply I was going to mention something about people burning cars if Halak was traded away after the season he’s had, but then I figured it wouldn’t really get my point across, since they burn cars every day anyways…it would be status quo!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
unlike 99.9% of the people speculating here, i actually live in montreal and have friends who cover the hbas
Um well, many of us actually live in San Jose, and as far as I know in any trade, it takes at least two teams to tango. Both Sharks and Habs fans, regardless of however much insider info you may personally have, have as much right to speculate on possible trades between the teams. Montrealers don’t have a monopoly on this.
This is a discussion of what could help our team and why Clowe for Price makes sense. All trade talk is speculation anyway so get off your high horse – you have a right not to like it, but that won’t or shouldn’t stop us from talking about it. There’s a reason it’s called rosterbation – even if it ain’t real, it’s still fun to think about it.
A lot of talk about the depth of the Sharks goaltending, but I think many of you are making a critical oversight: goaltending development
Reason why 10 years ago the Sharks had arguably the deepest goaltending crop was because we had one of the best goaltending coaches in the biz: Warren Strelow. May he rest in peace. Since then, no other Sharks prospect taught not taught by Strelow has had success in the NHL. Schaefer and Patzold have both flamed out. And there has been some speculation that Nabokov hasn’t been the same goaltender since Strelow passed away.
So with all the talk about a system with Greiss, Stalock, Sexsmith, Karlsson, that’s all good and gravy, but can they succeed at the next level? Corey Schwab is the new goaltending coach. I’m gonna withhold judgment till the results come through, but keep in mind Schwab didn’t exactly have what one would call a stellar NHL career. He was more capable at getting into goalie fights than stopping the puck.
It’s the same reason why Nashville is just so damn good at manufacturing goalies: RInne, Ellis, Vokoun, Mason were all trained by the legendary Mitch Korn. The same Mitch Korn who trained… drumroll Dominik Hasek.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 3, 2010 4:08 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good post.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
The Strelow factor is not to be overlooked. He molded our last goalie crop into what they were. That is an excellent point.
And the Mitch Korn factoid makes me much more keen to go sign Dan Ellis…
Well played, sir!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Just an FYI, I spoke with Strelow about his work with Patzold and Schaefer. Not sure I would say they “flamed out”. Look at what they had to crack in front of them just to get a start. Patzold recently has had two pretty good years in the DEL. Schaefer had two pretty good years with Houston in the AHL, then struggled in the KHL last year.
Corey Schwab isn’t the goaltending coach, he is the developmental goalie coach. Wayne Thomas is considered the goaltending coach, as well as being the assistant GM of the San Jose Sharks, and the GM of the Worcester Sharks.
Yes there is a lot of talk about Greiss, Stalock, Sexsmith, Karlsson, Sateri and now even a little with Hutton. Developing a true #1 NHL goaltender is probably the most difficult task in the NHL, but the Sharks have been approaching it much as they have regarding offensive defenseman. They stack prospects at different levels of development throughout the organization.
Schaefer and Patzold didn’t pan out, and they were not given an enormous opportunity because Nabokov, Kiprusoff and Toskala carried the load for several years. The Sharks are going to have to decide whether they want to go with another year of Nabokov/Greiss, or whether they want to possibly add an upgrade on defense and go with Greiss/Stalock. It would be a risk, but Greiss is very athletic, he just needs to harden the mental side of the game. Stalock has talent, he is familiar with the system, but there would be a learning on the fly element at the NHL level.
If you are going to go with youth and talent, Greiss and Stalock are about as good an option as you could hope for. If it doesn’t work out, they have goalies stacked for several years down the pipeline.
Very good point.
We should also factor in Nabby’s dominance over every Sharks goalie for the last ~10 years. Before Kipper became Kipper, we traded him to the Flames. After the year Toskala and Nabby ran tandem, DW traded Toskala to the Leafs and extended Nabby. As long as Nabby has been the #1, only Toskala has been good enough to challenge him. Corey Schwab’s goal tenders, while all young, are not proven because they have never had a real chance to challenge Nabby for play time. If Nabby pulled a Steve Shields then we would get to see our goal tending depth at work.
I wouldn’t say that Nabokov has been especially dominant over every other Sharks goalie for the last ten years. The amount of starts he can get you is a huge plus if you’re looking for a workhorse, but there is little difference between Nabokov and his competition.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Nabokov nearly pulled a Steve Shields twice in his career. Back in ‘05 and in ’08. In ’05, lots of goalies were struggling with the new rules. Neither Toskala nor Nabs were playing well, and as we all know, Tosk ended getting the starts in the playoffs. In ’08, Boucher stepped in for several weeks and played marvelously that led many to seriously debate how much of Nabokov’s stats were the result of the Sharks’ system. But there might be some credence behind that as Plank has pointed out.
Taking a walk down memory lane, Nabokov didn’t necessarily flat out-play Shields when he grabbed hold of the #1 job. In 99-00, Shields had a .911 save% and 2.56 GAA in 67 games. In 00-01, Nabokov had a .914 save% and 2.19 GAA in 66 games, while Shields had a .911 save% and 2.48 GAA in 21 games. Nabokov was better, but not significantly better.
However, Nabokov was consistent enough and most of all, healthy enough, to hold onto the #1 job. Prior to Nabokov, the Sharks had never had a franchise goaltender. Irbe, Vernon, Shields were all out of teal due to injuries and/or inconsistency. Furthermore, Nabokov was younger than Shields, and thus had upward potential. Whereas Shields was already 28 years old and had likely hit his max ceiling and was most likely seen as a temporary solution until the Sharks could develop their goaltending.
Word was on the street that Nabokov wasn’t the most talented of the four Strelow students (Nab, Kip, Tosk, Hedb). In fact, Kipper was supposed to have the highest ceiling. Had Kipper gotten a year start on Nabokov, we very well could be seeing Nabokov in red and Kipper in teal. Nabokov really was fortunate with his timing to be the backup when Shields went down, and not Kipper.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 4, 2010 1:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Great piece TCY, good discussion in here
This is essentially what it boils down to for me:
1) Ryane Clowe, as he was during the regular season, is the Sharks lone trade chip. If Clowe is moved for Price, that is the only trade San Jose will be able to make in terms of roster for roster players this offseason— the cupboard is too bare to engineer anything else that would bring in an impact roster player. If you are comfortable with this being the extent of San Jose’s trading this summer, then the price is right (so to speak).
2) Carey Price would disrupt San Jose’s goaltending pipeline because he would be labeled a franchise goalie. This I agree with on some levels, and vehemently disagree with on another. He would likely sign a three year deal worth $2.25 M + due to his ceiling, name, and obvious skill. Trading Clowe for Price and then signing him to a one year deal is likely something DW would want to avoid considering the assets he gave up for his services as well as the fact that if Price plays extremely well next season, he would either have to give him a raise/go to arbitration/let the market dictate how much he is paid.
So, I agree that it “blocks” the pipeline in that now there is only one spot available at the NHL level, but how that is any different from other veteran goalie proposals I don’t even know. It’s the same situation as signing a veteran goaltender to a two year deal and having Greiss/Stalock/whom the fuck ever battle it out for the other roster spot. Unless, in the same breath, you are arguing that San Jose should roll with Greiss and a rookie in net next year, the argument that Price would be “blocking” the pipeline doesn’t make sense.
3) Tying in with number two, San Jose does not necessarily hold the cards in the negotiation process— the market does. After being traded to San Jose, Price would be more than able to enter free agency and sign a contract. This would put the Sharks in a position where, in order to retain Price’s services, they would have to match that contract. It could go anywhere into the $3.5 M range by some dumb GM who is hungry to get a young goaltender with promise. Then do you let him go for picks, or do you match the offer sheet and get stuck with a goalie making 3 M +? If you are fine with this risk, then the price is right.
The argument that Price is a bad goaltender seems shallow to me. TCY and I talked about Price a few months ago and both agreed that he would be a fine goalie to have take over for Nabokov. It’s true that his best year was his rookie season, but this year he posted a .912 SV% which is fine, especially on a Montreal team that was the 19th best team in the league.
Whether or not Clowe is enough to get Price? I don’t know, and I don’t think anyone here does either. It’s all just a bunch of yanking each other’s dicks and seeing what comes out. Maybe a better question is what would be the most that you would give up to get Price in net for San Jose. Look down the barrel of a gun to find out what you truly believe in.
As for me, I wait to get Price until after July 5th, and not a moment sooner. I would need to see what kind of defenseman I was able to bring in during free agency before I trade away my only legitimate trading chip (Clowe) this offseason. If I’m only able to get Carlo Colaiacovo and Adrian Aucoin to sign, then there’s no way I make a deal for Price by trading Clowe— he’s the only thing I have available under contract that could be packaged together to get a top three defenseman.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Oh, thanks, Plank, for coming in and being all … rational
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
The most I’d give up for Price is Clowe and one of our goalie prospects…and that is assuming we can get Price signed to a contract right away…I’d think that would have to be part of any negotiation (I don’t think the NHL allows sign and trade deals…if they do, something like that…or at least let us have a framework deal in place before the trade that can be executed upon completion of the trade.
And you are right, once this trade is made, it leaves us with only the FA pool for upgrades on the rest of our roster…which could work out if we can convince Hamhuis or Michalek, et al to come on over. But you are right…if not, we’ll pretty much be stuck with what we have…and is Price really the biggest move we want to make this offseason? Probably not.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Well worst case scenario, we get price and some GM offers 3+ million to sign him; we’d then get back a 1st round pick and a 3rd round pick. Losing Clowe (we’d still free up some necessary cap space) and a goalie prospect for a 1st and a 3rd round pick isn’t a bad deal imo, depending on the prospect and team giving us the picks.
That’s a great point, that we may not be able to get any of the big defensemen in free agency. To be honest I’ve kind of been thinking that the world revolves around San Jose and that we could sign any defensemen of our choosing, but really we might not get Hamhuis, Michalek, Seidenberg or any of the other free agent defensemen that we so dearly need. If we trade away our only bargaining chip before we’ve signed a free agent defensemen then we could be putting ourselves in a bad position.
Adrian Aucoin’s not so bad though, assuming we can get him for under 3 mill.
Has nobody thought about picking up Vokoun?
Most people can agree that Nabby is going to be gone next year. But as far as next years talent it is definitely a lot of young guys. Stalok looks to be a phenomenal goaltender in the future but he needs a veteran teacher.
Tomas Vokoun has been outstanding over the past few seasons. Given the fact that he has been playing on a terrible team, I think the man deserves the most respect in the league. To come in third for shut outs in a season where your team finishes second to last is pretty good if you ask me (even if most of the shutouts were 1-0 wins, AND stopping over 35 shots to earn it).
I’m not a big fan of Greiss and I definitely don’t think he is the future. But, Stalok has a lot of potential. Final calll, drop Nabby and Greiss. Bring up Stalok and start Vokoun. I’d love to see what Vokoun could do with an outstanding team in front of him. I mean he did take the gold medal over Russia in the IIHF.
5.7 million cap hit. He’s a beast…but we couldn’t keep him AND upgrade elsewhere in the roster…
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 3, 2010 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s on such a terrible team that needs to do something about it. Them getting rid of Vokoun would be very advantageous for the Panthers. You don’t think Vokoun would drop down to 3-3.5MM to be on a good team. He is getting old too. Plus Stalok can sign for 500k, that’s a total of 3.5-4MM that we could spend on goalies. Vokoun would be worth it too. Especially if DW was serious when he said he wants to move forward and take a shot at the cup again.
This isn't the NFL
The NHL has guaranteed contracts, there is no contract negotiation, you get what they have or you buy them out.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
There’s about 5.7 million reasons why we wouldn’t acquire him.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 3, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
salary cap sucks
its been proven that you dont need money to win. if they want to spend money then let them.
just look at the MLB. tampa bay, the marlins, the twins are all winning with very small budgets.
salary cap is for whiners who wants everything to be “fair” but guess what life is not fair. screw the cap and just let the teams play
I recall the Yankees winning last year.
Or we can look at the NBA and the teams that overspend on their soft cap. The Lakers have a chance to win every year (and win most years it seems).
Also, the salary cap is about as much money as SJ can afford anyway, taking it away would just mean teams like Chicago and Detroit could improve their already great depth.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
money only buys players
it doesnt buy team chemistry or championships year after year
the lakers come to mind. gary payton, karl malone shaq and kobe all on the same team lost 4-1
Money may not win you championships, but it puts you in position to win it every year. Those clubs you’re talking about drafted well, had a few good shots and then fall off to obscurity again and again until they can make another run.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
my point is not not all high budget team wins,
and certainly low budget teams are very competitive as well.
That’s not true at all. Low budget teams are rarely consistently competitive, it takes a lot of luck to be competitive and the window is insanely small. As soon as good players become UFAs they leave to teams with higher pay rolls.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Exactly
There’s a reason why we call them the Triple A’s (or aka the Yanks MLB farm team). As a fan, it’s tough knowing most prospects that prove successful will eventually be traded or lost to a big market team who can afford to pay the huge $$$ with little consequence. The players that are kept are either injury prone or have some other flaw.
Moneyball: the art of winning an unfair game
“The Oakland A’s are baseball’s answer to the Island of Misfit Toys.”
Example. Jack Cust is our big bat. Enough said.
Now big market teams are dishing out the dollars AND optimizing sabermetrics (like the Red Sox). The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. I will celebrate for a week straight when and if the MLB institutes a cap.
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jun 4, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, a key aspect of sports is “fairness”
look at all the whining that goes on when one team gets more penalties than another, things are suppose to be balanced and may the best team win. Why should one team get special treatment because they happen to be located in a bigger city? Should teams located in bigger city only get 30 second penalties instead of 2 minutes? How about all penalties become 5 minute majors if you don’t sell out your arena? This is just as arbitrary as allowing the bigger cities have all the best players.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think the cap is one of the best things that have come from the post lockout era of the NHL. Although not all teams can afford to spend to the cap it does somewhat level the playing field and does somewhat spread the talent around the league. As a fan who is just as interested in what goes on off the ice as much as on, I’m going to be very interested to see what the Hawks do in the off season to manage their team rather then roll my eyes on who they might add. There are obviously teams in rough shape and removing the cap could potentially put the final nail in the coffin of those teams, and of course the flip side is that with the cap floor no team can really cheat their fans either.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Awesome, awesome write-up. The more I think about it, this deal’s almost too perfect. Surely we can’t/won’t be the only team in the league in need of a new goaltender, but stricken by cap woes. That said, we’re the only team with DW at the helm, and that alone puts us at a substantial advantage. I’ll echo what others have already said, that while it would pain me to see Clowe leave, I’m all too cognizant of how streaky and inconsistent he is and if I had to give up anyone under contract on the team, it would probably be him. If all things were equal, I’d give up Mitchell in a New York minute over Clowe, but unfortunately Clowe makes a lot more money.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
Living in Montreal, I can tell you that the fanbase is pretty split on Price and Halak going into the future. What Pierre Gauthier has to do is decide who is his #1 down the road. Price has a lot more potential and is younger but also more immature while Halak won two series for them and kept his mouth shut until it was clear that he was surpassing Price but not getting the respect he deserved. So the deal becomes either trade for the future or trade for the now.
Montreal fans are the most demanding in the league on their players. Doug Wilson COULD play that angle to try to get Gauthier to part with Price on the idea that Halak is the goalie of the now and get them into the playoffs and far enough along to satisfy the fanbase and make the new owners money. They’ll never win a cup though as they continue to have a 1970s philosophy of drafting local guys to please the French community and small speedy forwards. Back then, guys over 6 feet were slow and lumbering. Now, they’re only a stride or two behind and have 40+ lbs on the speedster. And yes, the ideal trade would be Clowe to fit under the cap and also to add size to an otherwise small crop of forwards.
As I said before, Price’s value is not that high right now and the fans would rage if Price becomes a star elsewhere while they get peanuts (see leclair/Desjardins trade to Philly, Roy to Colorado). It’s very likely they could just opt to run Halak as a #1 that only plays 45-50 starts, and Price plays the rest against hand picked opponents to pad his stats and increase his value. And should that occur, the price will likely be more than just Clowe. As both goalies are RFAs, the cards are in the Habs GM’s hands and not the players unless Price or Halak pulls a “this is the last game I’ve played in MTL”.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 3, 2010 7:33 PM PDT reply actions
paging Mario Tremblay. Mario Tremblay to the coach’s bench.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 4, 2010 2:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Montreal has too little cap space, and too much need for a top 6 forward for them to hang on to both Price and Halak
They are going to be tight to resign Plekanec and/or Kostitsyn (the good one). They are likely going to try shopping Roman Hamrlik to free up enough room as Subban is likely to make the team next year and Markov will be coming back.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 4, 2010 6:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah if they want to hang onto Plekanec, which i’m sure they do, they gotta give up one of their goaltenders. I really doubt they’ll be able to movie Hamrlik.
If you can trade Gomez, you can trade Hamrlik.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 5, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Couldn't Agree More
Like you, TWCY, I have been harping for a year for the Sharks to find a way to sign Price.
You have done an excellent job of making our point. If we can get him for around 2.5 mil a year, thats workable.
Love Vokoun But At What Price?
I would love to see Thomas in a Sharks uniform, but at what price? He is going to want at least what Nabby makes. He is known as one of the best goalies in the world, due to his work at the Olympics and the world championships.
So we won’t be able to steal him. He is a great goalie though
Not only is he going to want what Nabby got, he’s definitely going to get it as he’s already under contract for next year at 5.7 and nothing in the world can change that.
So not only would we have to pay for him in trade, but we’d have to pay for him in cap space as well.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Bingo.
I love Vokoun, and think he’s the best goaltender in the NHL right now, but there’s absolutely zero chance San Jose makes a run at him.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I’m too lazy to read all the comments here, sorry, but in a quick skim, I noticed Delauriers and Niitymaki mentioned. Is anyone talking Pekka Rinne? Isn’t he available and for cheap?
Nope
No way Nashville lets him go. At best he’s an RFA and he’s going to be resigned.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Just checked.
Resigned by Nashville to a 2 year deal this year.
http://www.capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=1063
3.4M cap hit over the next 2 years.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Aah ok, thank you for checking that.
Too bad he’s not available. Would’ve loved to see him in a Sharks jersey.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not too sure about Nittymaki (I’ll never spell that right). I mean, he’s Finnish and all, but from what I’ve seen of him, which is admittedly not a whole lot, I’m not sure that he’s all-that. I like what I’ve seen from Delauriers and Price, though.
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Nitty has stretches where he’s unbeatable… then he has stretches where you want to kill him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Oh thanks again. I should really be on top of this stuff myself :P
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 3, 2010 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s one of the most inconsistent goalies I have ever seen. Great talent, but great variance as well.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
After reading about trade proposals and whatnot for Carey Price around the internet, i haven’t really heard anyone suggest that Price would require anything more than what we’ve proposed to offer (a 60 point scoring top 6 forward such as Ryane Clowe + a prospect) here. A few Montreal fans even sound like they’d kill to trade Price for a top 6 forward if they could. Obviously it doesn’t matter what a bunch of random people on the internet think, but I think Clowe is definitely a good centerpiece to make a deal happen.
Setoguchi for Price
I’ve been watching every Sharks game for the last 3 years, especially after I started playing hockey myself. If there’s one thing I know about the Sharks, its that they need a player like Ryane Clowe to go deep into the playoffs. If we still had a player like him, a Steve Bernier maybe, we could afford to get rid of Clowy. Seeing as we don’t, if there’s one person worth getting rid of, its Devon Setoguchi.
Not to bash on the guy, but he’s a horrid skater, misses his shots wider of the net than Ehrhoff (who I WISH we still had, and never called for his trade), and is a small guy. The only positive I could think of is his speed, which isn’t really all that great either.
Here’s my solution:
1) Resign Nabby to a one/two yr deal less than $3MM/yr
2) Trade Seto for Price (keep Clowy)
3) Trade the Heater, Seto, one of our goalie prospects for Price and Camalleri
Tell me what do you guys think
I was never a real big fan of Heatley, and I'm still not...
but trust me, hes not going anywhere.
The problem is that when Cheechoo and Michalek are injured last year in the playoffs, people start saying how they can’t play and are useless, while the Heater gets a pass for the same reason… the third option I put is definitely a stretch, maybe just a wish
I don't think anybody said that about Cheech or Milan...
Cheechoo was a total fan favorite and he got a TON of benefit of the doubt for having a double hernia. People didn’t start ragging on him until he was “healthy” and still not producing. Same for Michalek. Milan definitely got a pass from the fans when he was actually hurt, but would disappear in the playoffs when the play got more physical…even when he was healthy.
Heatley STILL had 13 playoff points (3rd best on the team) with a torn groin…
1) I don’t think you get Nabby for less then 4.5 even to stay in SJ. He made over 5 Million this year if I’m not mistaken.
2) I don’t know if you can get Price for Seto straight up I think like many others one of our prospect goalies would go the other way and with Seto that may be a little rich for my blood.
3) No way is Montreal going to part with Camalleri, Trading Price will have ripples in that fan base but trading both would lead to riots in the streets.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
I work right in front of the Bell Centre. Trading away both Camalleri and Price would lead to events that would make it that I’d have to find a new place of employment.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 5, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Heater produced despite having a torn groin. Michalek didn’t produce and flat out didn’t play once he got injured in the playoffs. Cheechoo got tons of benifit of the doubt for years after his injury. 3M+ for a guy who scored 20 points a year and wasn’t good on defense is ridiculous and that’s why people eventually soured on Cheech.
1) Great idea. Now, lets get Kovy to sign for 3 mil, Patty to sign for 2.5 and Pavs and Seto to keep making what they’re making now. Also, trade Huskins for Doughty in LA. I love living in fantasy land.
2) Possible, but I’d rather keep Seto as he has a higher ceiling than Clowe. Also, Seto isn’t a small guy, he’s 6’ 200lbs. We’re not talking Scott Nichol here, he’s 2" shorter than Clowe. Not everybody can be Jumbo sized.
3) Heater isn’t going anywhere, and no way that Montreal gives up the only guy that could score for them in the playoffs.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Michalek didn’t produce and flat out didn’t play once he got injured in the playoffs.
And it happens every year. I don’t think he’s gone through a single playoffs without getting caught with his head down. Well, maybe in the Anaheim series, but not getting caught with his head down didn’t exactly help him score any in that series.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
In the post lockout NHL, barring massive differences in other skills, speed almost always beats size. Just look at the Habs with their ridiculously undersized roster and the Avs. Furthermore, there is no one remotely approaching Setoguchi’s skillset in the system right now, while there is a small possibility that someone like Mashinter or McLaren could develop into a power forward type player.
No thanks on Cammalleri. Dude is tiny, and played way WAY over his head this postseason. Do. Not. Want. Especially not fro Heater and Seto! Jesus! Heatley is a badass goal scorer, and Seto is still young and proved a lot to me this season. He’s working more to create his own scoring chances, using his speed, and can snipe pretty darned well too.
Also, Nabby will take at least 4.5 million to sign. If we could have him for 2.5-3 million, we aren’t having this discussion right now.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 4, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
seto gives it all when hes out there.
he plays hard, finishes the checks and can be a threat to score.
like everyone already said, he is still young. and hes worked really hard this season. he also did alot of the dirty work that not everyone will do.
I was shocked that he didn't score more
He was all over the place hustling for loose pucks, throwing his weight around, had great chances to score this postseason. I think it’s a great sign and evolving play style for someone who was more or less Joe Thornton’s set-up guy (IMO)
Man, before Seto got injured this year he looked damn amazing. For a while there in the beginning of the season, Seto and Marleau looked like the only guys out there trying, but they were both tearing it up. Then Seto got injured and became extremely streaky with his goal scoring. Maybe a summer long break is exactly what he needs to get going again.
Maybe, but points are a bit deceiving… its easy to throw 13 pts when 11 pts are assists and 8 of them are secondary assists brought on by being on Jumbo Joes top line. Cheech especially played with heart on the third line in the 09 playoffs through injury, and Milan wasn’t coached well at all under Ron Wilson, I definitely think he would have done what he did this year in Ottawa for the Sharks this year. It doesn’t matter though, what matters is what we do now.
1) Its really all up to Nabby. If he really wants to stay, he’ll play for $3MM for the next 2 years and finish out his career in Russia.
2) I agree, one thing I’d like to see is maybe not Seto – Price straight up, but Seto + a goalie prospect for Price as well as a couple low draft picks or a 3rd or 4th rounder.
3) I really think we could do much more without the Heaters toll on the cap, like get Dan Hamhuis and resign Nabby + Seto. Unfortunately thats highly unlikely….
Goals don't occur in a vaccum
Heater was instrumental in some very key goals for us (pav’s goal in the dying seconds of game 2 vs. the Avs was off a Heater rebound).
There is a reason points are recorded in addition to goals. He’s an important part of offense, if it isn’t scoring it’s setting up others or pulling defensive coverage off other guys like Pavs to open them up for scoring opportunities.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Seto has tons of potential and he’s only 23, we can’t get rid of him. He didn’t have a great regular season but that might’ve been a good thing for the Sharks’ long term success since we can probably sign him for much less now than we would’ve been able to had he had a breakout season.
Besides, Clowe is much better trade bait for Montreal in a Carey Price deal, Montreal is looking for a top 6 power forward and Clowe just had a career high 57 point season; plus he’d free up more cap space for us than trading Seto would.
Here’s another article in french (google translate ftw) mentioning Price possibly being traded to the Sharks for Ryane Clowe: http://www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/299650.html
Here’s the part about the Sharks though:
Teams from the West, as the San Jose Sharks and the St. Louis Blues, will surely display interest. The veteran Evgeni Nabokov (San Jose) and Chris Mason (St. Louis) are eligible to become an unrestricted free agent.
The Canadiens will personally neighborhood. It could target power forwards in the prime of life Ryane Clowe as (San Jose) and David Backes (St. Louis), markers of 20 goals that create space for their teammates. This type of wingers for offensive that has failed this season.
Damn french, but this Carey Price for Ryane Clowe deal is seeming like a real possibility more and more everyday.
Nabby and Heater for Price and....
the right for Randy to call some games in a cheesy French-Canadian accent. Good deal all round.
Cary Price: A great fit both ways
Price is a young talent who was pressed into service too young with a marginal defense and very small, ineffective back-checking forwards. He needs his confidence back, and the Sharks can focus defensively to minimize quality chances. TONS of upside here.
I’d also like to see the Sharks make a run at Plekanec if Marleau leaves, but he may be too expensive without draft picks or a player like Helminen.
by rumpledforeskin on Jun 7, 2010 11:28 AM PDT reply actions
Price as a Shark is fine by me.
As long as Price can keep his ego in check, I’d have no qualms with seeing him in teal. He’s a big, athletic guy that moves around the crease well. His puck handling skills also make him like a third defenseman out there. A lot of people forget that he’s only 22, so he’s probably going to get better. It’d be great for the Sharks to get a young guy like Price who can be a great franchise goalie rather than getting an older guy like Turco, whose best days are behind him (unlike Price). I can also see Price having success with the Sharks because he will get more goal support than he gets in Montreal. If San Jose just makes their defense a little stronger and if Price continues to develop, we’re looking at a solid team.
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