Rumor Roundup: Souray, Kaberle, and Whimsical Wants
by FTF Staff on Jun 7, 2010 2:04 AM PDT
in Rumor Roundup
114 comments
Howdy, partners. Rumor Roundup will be a recurring piece this offseason, focusing on rumors surrounding the San Jose Sharks. The unabashed use of alliteration is staying, but hopefully the western-esque feel dies down as we stop playing so much Red Dead Redemption. I swear, if someone behind us yelled "John Marsten!" we'd turn around while enabling Dead-Eye and blow em' away. It's bad.
Although a new Rumor Roundup will be published every Monday, the comments here should stay lively all week-- in other words, if you see a rumor over the next few days that you want to discuss, feel free post it in the comments.
Souray to Sharks: Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal breaks down a potential trade involving the oft-injured veteran:
One possibility may be the San Jose Sharks, who need help on the blue-line, especially if Rob Blake retires and they lose his big shot and $3.5-million worth of salary. The Sharks would likely offer defenceman Kent Huskins and forward Torrey Mitchell in return. Huskins, a No. 5 or 6 blue-liner at best, makes $1.7 million for one more year. Mitchell, who hasn't been the same player since breaking his leg and having knee problems, is a $1.3-million cap hit.
Oh, Sheldon Souray. It's kind of sad a name that would have excited us just a year ago makes us so leery today. Souray is still an effective offensive-defenseman when healthy, with a cannon of a shot and underrated puck moving abilities. When healthy, though, is the phrase that concerns us. After a strong 2008-2009 Souray spent an abundant amount of time in the press box with a concussion and hand injury, playing in just 37 games and putting up middling numbers. That injury is in addition to multiple others he has had in his career, and the fact that he is 33 years old makes us even more wary to green light this deal.
To say nothing of his $5.4MM cap his over the next two seasons. If the Sharks were to add Souray, they'd have $26.7MM tied up in four players (Heatley, Thornton, Boyle), and that's before signing Patrick Marleau, who will likely be one of Doug Wilson's top priorities. Although Souray could be had for very little (the Huskins and Mitchell package validates the thought that a Souray trade would be a pure cap purge for Edmonton, due in no small part to his trade request at the end of the regular season), the salary space that would have to be dedicated to Souray play a large role in the thought process.
A player such as Paul Martin, outlined in a previous article on Fear The Fin, is a much better bet for the Sharks this offseason due to his strong two way play and attentiveness in the defensive zone.
Kaberle trade possible: Jim Matheson of the Edmonton Journal looks at potential suitors for the puck moving blueliner:
Let's face it, the Toronto Maple Leafs don't need Tomas Kaberle. They have Dion Phaneuf now. But they have a tough chore convincing teams to take the defenceman unless the team wanting Kaberle can get him signed to a three-or four-year contract for, say, Sergei Gonchar-type money ($5 million a year). If so, you give up a top six forward for sure, but Leafs' fans are dreaming if they think they can get Bobby Ryan for Kaberle.Would the Sabres take Kaberle and give up Derek Roy or Jason Pominville? Probably. Would the Sharks take him for Devin Setoguchi? You bet. Would the Blue Jackets for Jake Voracek. For sure. How about Dallas for Loui Eriksson or Jamie Benn? Try the Bruins for centre David Krejci?
Matheson sure likes shootin' the shit don't he? We wrote in detail about Kaberle during the trade deadline, but have cooled on him considerably since then. Kaberle would have helped the Sharks this last postseason on the power play, but San Jose will likely allocate their dollars elsewhere when looking at a top four defenseman.
A large part of that is the emergence of Jason Demers, who has shown that he's more than capable of playing big minutes with the man advantage. Because of Demers you don't really need the equally poor defensive abilities of Kaberle, who's softer than Quilted Northern on your behind. With goaltender Evgeni Nabokov likely leaving for free agency, and the goaltending situation still up in the air, San Jose will need to do a better job of limiting shots on net in their own end. Kaberle doesn't help here.
In addition, trading the huge potential of Setoguchi for one year of Kaberle is something that makes little sense. Clowe for Kaberle? Maybe, but even then you are giving away your lone trade chip this season for a purely offensive defenseman. Setoguchi has encountered a great deal of criticism from the fanbase through an injury plagued 2009-2010 campaign, but ignoring the fact that he could have been a 30 goal scorer if healthy is a disservice to what he brings to the table at the young age of 23. Setoguchi is already one of the better players on the team and will only improve with time. Unless the Sharks get a huge package for him, or he gets an equally huge offer sheet from another team, expect him in teal to begin next season.
Hjalmarsson likely gone from Chicago: Barry Rozner of the Chicago Daily Herald examines the vultures that will begin to circle next offseason as Chicago's cap worries become a full-blown conundrum:
Those discussions were the sideshow to the talks involving trades and free agency, setting the table for what's certain to be an interesting summer.
And at the center of it all are the Hawks and their cap problems, and a defenseman named Niklas Hjalmarsson.
The vultures are swarming and there's a lot of talk about players that might be available, like Kris Versteeg (two more years at $3 million per) and Patrick Sharp (two years at $4.1 million per).
While the Sharks aren't mentioned in this article, the addition of Niklas Hjalmarsson to the San Jose blueline would be a great addition to the team. We highlighted his underrated abilities before the Western Conference Finals, and true to form, the man they call The Hammer was a notable presence on the ice for the Blackhawks.
Extending an offer sheet to Hjalmarsson is an interesting situation. Anything under $3.01MM would only result in the Sharks losing next year's 2nd round pick, and anything from $3.01MM to about $4.5MM would result in losing next year's 1st and 3rd round selections. The former is definitely the most intriguing for a Sharks team whose cupboard is growing bare after years of buy deals, and the ability to bring in a promising young defenseman onto the blueline makes the waning strength of the system less of a factor.
Another route the Sharks could go would be to trade their first round selection to the Blackhawks for Hjalmarsson's rights. While this may strike some as ludicrous considering it would be the third straight year the Sharks have failed to draft in the first round, giving up a first round selection for a promising defenseman would likely be worth the same return (if not better) than what you would expect from the 28th pick in the NHL Draft.
A recent contract signed by Dennis Seidenberg ($3.25MM average over the next four years) shows us that a premium has been placed on free agent defensemen this offseason, likely bumping projected prices up at least half a million dollars. With the Sharks having some pretty significant holes to fill, it's uncertain how aggressively Doug Wilson will approach an area he hasn't had a lot of success in over the years. Signing one UFA defenseman is likely where San Jose draws the line, since it's the second tier guys who will really burn you in a weak market.
At a $3MM offer sheet Hjalmarsson is a steal, and the 2nd round pick is but a cursory concern when you consider how young (22) and talented he is. Extending offer sheets is risky business considering the notable RFA's San Jose will be dealing with in the coming years (Pavelski, Setoguchi, Demers, Couture, McGinn), but for a team that needs defensive help any way they can find it, burning a bridge with an unlikely trade partner (Chicago) is a calculated risk that could pay off big dividends.
We like the idea, especially when you consider what a second rounder is worth in the eyes of Doug Wilson.
Go Sharks.
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PASS on Souray and Kaberle imo.
It’d be awesome if we could land Hjalmarsson with an offer sheet under 3 mill; and considering that he only made 685k this year, and how little cap space Chicago has, i bet we could. Fuck Chicago lol.
My only concern is-how often does Hjalmarsson play against other teams’s top lines? I’m guessing very rarely in the playoffs. I see him as being a great pickup for our defensive depth, and as a guy with a ton of potential, but it could be risky to lose our 1st rounder before we’ve gotten a guy who can play against other teams’s top lines night in/night out in case things don’t work out on the free agent front.
I kinda feel like we’re probably going to have to trade away our 1st rounder this offseason if we want to put together a really solid roster though. I know it sucks that we always trade them away but were always one of the last teams to pick anyways (like Plank mentioned) so it’s not like were missing out on getting the next Ovechkin or anything. Getting a big, talented, young, puck-moving, shutdown defensemen like Hjalmarsson is not a bad way to spend a 1st round pick.
I did notice him make some bad mistakes in game 4 against Philly, but he gets a pass since he was only 22 years old (today is his birthday apparently lol). Let him work out all his kinks with Chicago.
Oh and his name is kinda cool. What was that phrase Plank used about him ‘Hjalammering’ someone or somethin? lol
I definitely can understand your concerns as to whether or not Hjalmarsson is worthy of a first round pick— if you’re playing the percentages, it’s likely he pans out at a higher level than the Sharks draft choice at 28th, but it’s definitely a gamble. Furthermore, whether or not you can parlay that selection with another Shark under contract (Clowe or whoever) to get an even more impact player is a definite question that should be debated. And one I expect we will over the coming weeks.
As for Hammer’s skill set, he’s playing behind probably the best defensive pairing in the league (Keith-Seabrook) so it’s hard to guage whether or not he could go against the toughs night in, night out. His statistics indicate he would be able to do so, but it is ultimately a question mark. A calculated risk considering his age and projected ceiling, but a risk nonetheless.
Agreed on Souray and Kaberle. No need for that kind of tomfoolery in the Bay.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
As an aside, “Tomfoolery in Tuscany” would be an excellent band name.
Much like “The Mimosas May Have Been A Mistake.”
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I definitely think he’s worthy, but then again if it were up to me the Sharks would probably never have 1st round picks as long as they remained in cup contention.
And i was thinking more like a 1st rounder + Huskins (or maybe Murray =\)and a prospect for a guy like Robyn Regehr possibly. That’s probably not a deal Calgary would go for but i’m sure you guys get what i mean. I’d like to think Clowe would be a good enough bargaining chip to garner someone/something useful alone, or maybe with some lower draft picks or a prospect thrown in depending on what we’re getting back.
PASS...
…on both Souray and Kaberle. They are both too risky and expensive. Hjalmarsson would be worth the first round pick, but we are surely not the only team interested in the young stud. I am interested in Anton Volchenkov. We always seem to be lacking in the shot blocking department and he is a master in that area.
Hjalmarsson would be worth the first round pick, but we are surely not the only team interested in the young stud
Bingo, same situation as Tier One UFA’s. Should be interesting to see where this all ends up.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Although one positive for the Sharks
Is that no matter where Hjalmarsson is next year, as long as it’s not Chicago, it makes the path through the Western Conference a tiny bit easier—especially if he ends up in the East.
No thanks on Souray and Kaberle
Injury prone and expensive.
"Even the Swedes are getting mad."-Randy Hahn
"It's very cozy in the sin bin."-Randy Hahn
As a replacement for Blake or Huskins?
Souray would be an upgrade. Mitchell’s probably the second most useless player on the roster. Green light. Not to mention, Souray’s got SIZE. And maybe Souray’s injuries got milked a bit, seeing as he had to carry the load in Edmonton. I’d hate playing there too.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 7, 2010 7:15 AM PDT reply actions
That's not the only problem
Souray’s cap hit would really limit how much the Sharks can spend in other departments…
If Blake retires, and we don't get someone like Martin, I'd take the Souray deal.
Maybe at the deadline or something. But even if Souray does get hurt, we can put him on IR and open up some space.
I would be okay with the move, but we need Patty, Pavs and Gooch back before we do anything.
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
I would not...
1) trade Seto for Kaberle – that trade would kill us
2) pick up Souray’s cap – way too much!
3) give anything more than a second round pick for Hjalmarsson
Here is an interesting (first round) pick for the Sharks...
28. San Jose Sharks
2009-10 record: 51-20-11, 113 points
The pick: Connor Brickley, Des Moines Buccaneers (USHL)
Analysis: Earlier this week, we did a feature on Brickley, an Everett, Mass., native and second cousin of former Bruin and current NESN color-commentator Andy Brickley. His stock is rising, and according to one Sharks source, we were right. So much so that another NHL scout told us the Sharks are very high on him. Can’t ignore that coincidence, can we?
- nesn.com
Here is a link to the feature:
http://www.nesn.com/2010/06/everetts-connor-brickley-prepared-to-live-dream-journey-to-nhl.html
I don’t think any of these guys really would solve the teams problems. I’ve officially jumped on the Paul Martin train.
All aboard!
Choooooo choooooooo!
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jun 7, 2010 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Hjalmarsson
Considering the term Chicago has Campbell locked up for, as well as their top pairing, I would think they’d want to lock up his partner for at least part of the forseeable future.
Question about RFAs. Do you have to give up the picks just for extending the offer sheet, or do you only give them up if it’s not matched?
Still, Paul Martin please!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Only if it’s not matched.
Besides, Chicago is going to have to dump players for picks somehow. They’re at the cap and need 6 more players next year just to round out a roster.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, i’m sure that Chicago really wants to keep Hjalmarsson but i can’t see how they could afford it. I feel like if we were to throw a 3 million dollar offer sheet at him, there’s no way Chicago could come close to matching it.
Well, what happens if we offer 2.5M and Chicago can’t match, but another team tenders an offer sheet of 2.75M? Do we still lose the pick?
"It's a lumberjack convention out there." Drew Remenda 3/4/10
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
Signing an RFA is exactly like signing a UFA except that in addition to getting them to sign with you you have to give up picks or the controlling team can match.
If he signs a deal with us for 2.5 they either have to match or he’s ours, but he’d have to choose to sign with us.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, an offer sheet is basically just a contract being offered to the RFA that their team can choose to match.
I assume that even if a team offers more than we do, Hjalmarsson can choose which contract he’d like to sign. Although i wonder what would happen if we offered 2. 75 mill (we’d have to give chicago a 2nd rounder) and another team that Hjalmarsson doesn’t want to play for offered him 3.2 million (where Chicago would be given a 1st and a 3rd), could Hjalmarsson choose to sign with us instead and deny Chicago the 1st and 3rd round picks? That’d be kind of funny.
Yeah, like ED said, Hjalmarsson is essentially an unrestricted free agent. The compensation only occurs after he signs a contract, and Chicago chooses not to match the term, amount, and whatever else is built into that contract (bonuses etc).
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
OK, that makes sense. Thanks guys!
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 7, 2010 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Just some names of 3rd-4th line players that caught my eye.
They are a little old,but for a one-two year cheap contract, they would play well.
Niedermayer
Lombardi
Torres
Sykora
Moore
Pisani
Comrie
I don’t know if they have been signed to a contract extension yet…
Absolutely no on Pisani
Ulcerative Colitis is so unpredictable, I doubt any team other than Edmonton signs him.
I’d be up for Comrie just to tell Hillary Duff: “That’s so gay”
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
Absolutely not on Souray and Kaberle
Those would be suicidal. I targeted Hjalmarsson before the playoffs, and a few other Hawks (see Jack Skille) as well due to their cap troubles and on the assumption that Blake retires and Nabby doesn’t re-sign.
I’m also in the camp that thinks Marleau is less than 50-50 to return because he’s going to see some serious coin thrown at him, in which case DW would have some real options.
by rumpledforeskin on Jun 7, 2010 10:35 AM PDT reply actions
Most disturbing screenname ever.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Reminds me of Rumpelstiltskin, which I’m sure is what he was going for.
Good times.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I can create a new one if
Everyone finds it offensive. Primarily it was created for that effect on the Avs and Blackhawk blogs…
by rumpledforeskin on Jun 9, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
No to Souray and Kaberle, but yes to the Hammer.
I was talking about poaching Hjarlmasson yesterday with some friends. He was a beast against us in the WCF and has been fairly good against Philadelphia despite a pretty poor Game 4. After hearing how young he is (22!!!!), I say the Sharks should absolutely go after him.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 7, 2010 10:57 AM PDT reply actions
Hjalmarsson would be pretty epic, IMO. Dude is a stalwart most nights in the D end, and is young and has a high ceiling (same reasons why I’d like Carey Price too). My biggest concern about trying to get Hjalmarsson on an offer sheet is not that Chicago might match…its that some other team would be willing to go higher to poach him. I wouldn’t want to offer any more than 3mil.
Also, what if we offered 4 years at 3 per, and another team did as well? How does it get decided which team gets to poach him?
Oh, and I agree, no thanks on Souray and Kaberle. Save the cap space for a run at a Martin or Hamhuis type.
Esta noche nosotros cenamos Tortugas
Así que bueno, ellos serán
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 7, 2010 1:12 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Aww, for a second I thought you guys were shooting James Marsden, and I was like, “Nooo, he’s so cute!” Good thing it’s John, not James.
Oh, and a huge pass on Souray and Kaberle. Their salaries are too big for being offense-only defensemen, especially when we already have a much better one in Boyle. Hjalmarsson I’m a little iffy about, although that’s because he’s an RFA and the whole offer sheet process isn’t something that I’d like the Sharks to get into, and because he had a HORRIBLE Game 4 in the Finals which is coloring my view of him.
Sign me up to be on the list for the Paul Martin newsletter, though.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
Hjalmarsson is pretty young, and I’m willing to give him a pass on one bad game. Furthermore, he’d look amazing next to Vlasic either Vlasic or Boyle. He’s done quite well this year covering Campbell’s backside and would probably look just as great next to Boyle. Put him next to Vlasic and you have one of the league’s best shutdown pairings for the next 10 years (It would also force Vlasic to handle the puck some more, which he’s somewhat underrated at; right now he’s a bit too content to let Blake make the breakout pass or attempt to skate the puck up, when paired with lesser defensemen, he’s done rather well at doing that sort of thing himself.)
Definitely. He’d be great on either line. I’m sure playing next to Boyle would make for a real easy transition though, since Boyle and Campbell are pretty similar stylistically.
When TCY and I were writing the piece yesterday we literally said the exact same thing about Vlasic-Hjalmarsson being a dynamic shutdown pairing for years to come, as well as giving Vlasic an ability to open up his game more.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Yess
Someone please notify Doug Wilson that we’ve come to a decision. Hjalmarsson and Carey Price will be Sharks next season, so say we all.
There is a lot more open debate about Price
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think it’s like 70-30 pro-Price.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jun 7, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Hey now
I’m pretty sure I count as much everyone else here put together.
I really doubt an offersheet for Hjalmarsson will be actually be given by Wilson mainly in order to avoid future retaliatory RFA poaching. And I don’t think we have the assets to get more than one of Price or Hjalmarsson in trade. (If Byfuglien’s playoff performance makes him too expensive, I could see a Clowe+Huskins+Wrenn maybe getting us Hjalmarsson if Chicago is worried about the possibility of offer sheets from other teams since that’s certainly better than just getting a 2nd round pick for Hjalmarsson.)
No way Chicago gets that type of package for Hjalmarsson, considering he’s an RFA.
Also, why the hell would they take on $5.3MM in salary when they can’t even afford to pay Hjalmarsson? He needs to be moved for picks, period.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jun 7, 2010 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
No way Chicago gets that type of package for Hjalmarsson, considering he’s an RFA.
… they can’t afford to keep. GM’s know they are in a tough spot.
Fixed.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jun 7, 2010 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions
If Chicago dumps Huet in the minors it goes a long way towards freeing up salary, but in no way does that account for $5.3MM in salary like you mentioned. Picks, or move a couple current Hawks like Versteeg for a guy on an entry level deal in order to get under.
As for going after RFA’s, I’m not sure a retaliatory poaching would occur, but I understand the thought process. Think of it this way though— Chicago isn’t going to have the cap space to “retaliate” on DW until a couple years down the road. And there’s no reason a team like Carolina or whatever is going to have some moral imperative to right the wrongs of a San Jose offer sheet that took a player away from Chicago.
I think the risks are a little overblown. Nothing happened between the infamous Penner-Anaheim offer sheet except a couple barbs through the media. If it breaks down the relationship between San Jose and Chicago, what the hell ever— it’s not as if these teams will be trading players anytime soon anyways.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I’m assuming that Huskins would be waived immediately (Chicago can easily afford that), at which point it becomes $3.625 M salary plus a decent defensive prospect for Hjalmarsson.
The point of such a trade would be to ensure that adequate compensation was received for losing Hjalmarsson. If they know they can’t afford to match a $3M offer sheet, I’m pretty sure that Chicago would rather trade him for this pacakge (and then possibly flip Clowe for more picks and prospects, he should easily just get a 2nd round pick from someone) than only get a 2nd round pick. (And I don’t think anyone would give a 1st+3rd offer sheet, which is more valuable than this trade offer.)
Generally speaking, if it’s a choice between lose Hjalmarsson to an offer sheet (from any team) that will only net a 2nd round pick, or get the package mentioned here, I think the Hawks take the Clowe package. If you prefer, even a Wrenn+Zalewski package would be better than a simple 2nd round pick in 2011. I think most teams would rather make a trade than guess to see if they can make an offer sheet.
It’s not the trading fact I had a problem with, it’s the package you suggested. There’s no way that can make that work salary wise.
Of course they want something back for Hjalmarsson, but they really screwed themselves with their salary cap for the next few years and therefore aren’t really in a position to be asking for too much.
And Wrenn is my boy.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jun 8, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Again, as I said before, I expect them to either flip Clowe right away for probably less than his true value or use him as a cheaper Byfuglien replacement. If you prefer, replace Clowe with a 3rd in 2011 or 5th in 2010 or something. As for Wrenn, Hjalmarsson is one of the few guys in the league that will actually be plausible trade targets that I would give him up for. (As said earlier, Huskins would be waived immediately.)
I know Chicago can’t ask for too much if they can’t afford to actually keep Hjalmarsson, but they should be able to leverage interest from multiple teams into a decent trade. It won’t be easy to fleece Chicago for him simply because there will be multiple teams going after him if he’s available.
That trade just doesn’t seem like a good trade for us, and it seems pretty pointless for Chicago. They wouldn’t keep Clowe. If they had 3.6 million cap space lying around they would use it to hang onto Hjalmarsson or someone else important to their team. So why trade Hjalmarsson for Clowe when you’re just going to end up trading Clowe? They might as well just trade Hjalmarsson.
Chicago can not afford to take on more salary right now, and that is the main reason the proposed trade does not work.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 8, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Not only is that way way too much, it’s something Chicago can’t even do. They’re taking on more salary than they would even spend on Hjalmarsson, which is part of the problem, they can’t even afford to pay just him, much less bring in two more debatable overpaid players.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Seriously though
I hope DW doesnt get Souray or Kaberle. I hope he spends his time trying to get Hjalmarsson and Martin.
So we like Martin and Hjalmarsson
2010-11 SAN JOSE SHARKS
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.300m)
Joe Pavelski ($4.250m) / Devin Setoguchi ($3.200m) / Logan Couture ($1.242m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.997m) / Manny Malhotra ($1.500m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m) / Scott Nichol ($0.750m) / John McCarthy ($0.550m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Paul Martin ($4.750m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.000m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.500m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 22; CAP:$58.8m; PAYROLL: $59.554m; CAP ROOM: $0.176m BONUSES: $0.930m
This also doesn’t require Patty to take a pay cut. These cap hits are pretty realistic to me…
Just because not all GMs are reasonable
I think $2.5 might be lowball for Price. But that’s just me being picky. Patty takes less money (at least for one season) or he walks. That’s my take. Otherwise, I like the roster.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
No - better roster:
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Devin Setoguchi ($3.000m)
Patrick Marleau ($5.500m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.500m) / Mathew Lombardi ($2.500m)
Logan Couture ($1.242m) / Manny Malhotra ($1.800m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.997m)
Frazer McLaren ($0.543m) / Scott Nichol ($0.750m) / Jed Ortmeyer ($0.550m)
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.667m) / Paul Martin ($4.000m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Niklas Hjalmarsson ($3.000m)
Jordan Leopold ($2.000m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($2.500m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 21; CAP:$58.8m; PAYROLL: $59.292m; CAP ROOM: $0.438m BONUSES: $0.930m
P.S. I got rid of the asterisks this time :]
Go Sharks!
I know right :p
But we can always hope…
Trully though, I think signing Martin and Price isn’t that big of a dream…the Hammer, Lombardi, and Leopold probably though… :D
Go Sharks!
I think NJ will probably resign Martin. It’s like everybody salivating over Marleau for their teams, the hope is they never get a chance.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I could live with either of these two rosters you guys came up with.
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
"No, That's Not General Malaise, It's NHL Playoff Fever." Real Fake Sports
Yeah i think Martin is kinda unlikely but I could see us getting Price and Hjalmarsson, assuming DW goes after them.
That's good.
But…Hammer is a 2nd pairing D for being w/ Vlasic. What about our #1 D to pair w/ Boyle? Martin and Hamhuis fit that area best…I don’t think Hamhuis will be re-signed as they have other priorities to deal with, so he’s our better chance imo :)
Go Sharks!
who did you trade doug murray for?
Kaberle and Souray rumors are about as frequent as Lindsay Lohan’s coke parties, and as about as likely as LiLo being nominated for an Oscar.
With that said, if Hammer somehow finds his way onto the Sharks, I am liking the best collection of nicknames in hockey: Crankshaft, Boiler, Pickles, and Hammer.
Patty Marleau: An Erotic Life in San Jose... to be continued?
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 8, 2010 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I like it
the bottom 2 lines though….hopefully they arent a liability come playoff time.
Seeing Souray on the front page...
Makes me throw up in my mouth.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
To each his own.
Carey Pr-BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 8, 2010 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions
As some people have said before...
If even average joe’s like us can see that picking up either Souray or Kaberle would be awful moves…I’m sure Dougie knows this as well.
As Manny and Heater showed last offseason, the Sharks are an organization that people WANT to play for now. Players take pay cuts and waive their no-trade clauses to come here. That’s an advantage most hockey clubs wish they had. It’s also not like we can’t pay guys a competitive salary, even if it might not be their BEST offer money-wise.
Tell that to Brian Sabean of the Giants...
/sighs
"Shave it, and you will score." - Randy Hahn
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud member of the "Lifetime Contract for Marleau" Club
Definitely passing on Souray and Kaberle. As we discussed pre-trade deadline, I think we all have a pretty good idea of what type of shoring up our blueline needs, and it’s not the Kaberle type, or the oft-injured Souray type. The Wallin trade, while it looked somewhat competent on the surface, ended up being for naught, as he ended up being as fragile as Kiefer Sutherland’s willpower around booze and strippers, and when he was actually playing, he never seemed to play like he cared much. Kaberle could be intriguing if not for the fact that he’s a more expensive Demers (albeit with slightly better defensive acumen). I just don’t think we should give up any valuable pieces like Clowe or, god forbid, Setoguchi, without the possibility of a true, shutdown blueliner. Plus, I predict Captain Hook will stay one more year at a substantial discount – I don’t know how I know this, but I just have a feeling in my bones.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
As much as I don't want Kaberle anymore now...
In the Playoffs, we would have needed him…our Powerplay SUCKED at times and him helping out Boyle would have been nice – just saying…
Go Sharks!
What about VOKOUN???
CARY PRICE is GARBAGE! I really do not beleive this kid will be great, yet Vokoun has demanded out of Florida, and we all know how Dougie loves to lowball when a player has expressed displeasure with his current situation…
Just sayin…
His 5.7 million dollar cap hit is why most aren't considering him an option.
It would be the same problem cap wise as having Nabby.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 8, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Aside from the already pointed out cap hit issue. When did Vokoun ever demand out of Florida. The only information I know about people coming out of Florida is the management of the team sending out letters to fans that they are entering a rebuilding phase and that any player may be moved in the process.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Vokoun has been asking out of FLA for years...
I have attempted to find the link, but couldnt. I have seen it in print a few times over the past year or so, I have heard rumblings, but paid no attention due to Nabby…
The more i Research him the more i am not so sure i would want him…
I am continuing to look at the NHL rosters, becuase Carey Price is not the answer, and I am starting to think we may be better of just keeping (paying) Nabby…
I would really like to keep Marleau, and while it would be nice, I dont see both staying…
Ok i got another one...
Not like all this isnt, but this is pure speculation…
I dont think Calg has ANY scoring whatsoever (Ja-rome, and Bourqe?), maybe we could get Kipper back. Now of course we would need to give up a little more, but may be able to dump salary…
Like Clowe and Nabby for Kipper and a Pick…
I know im dreaming, but we would get a top tear (drinking, chain smoking, swearing)goalie, and open a little cap space, and the difference in cap hit between goalies is like $100K…
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
You’re right about Calgary, but if we’re gonna trade for any of their players it should be Regehr imo; and he’s like 20 times more likely to be traded than Kipprusof is anyways. I’m pretty sure Kipprusof was widely regarded as the team MVP last year.
Carey Price is a perfect solution for us. I mean how could you not want a guy who already has career stats similar to Nabokovs, costs at least half as much as Nabokov, and has more potential for improvement than nearly any other goaltender in the league?
of course its a sign a trade for Nabby (prob shoulda mentioned that)
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
I dont see you offering up any better options, just shooting mine down...
KIPPER IS ON THE HOOK FOR 5.8, Nabby makes like 5.3, oh yeah and before you throw it back at me Kipper Has a No Trade too…
BUT, It sure did seem like a lot of NTC’s were moved last season…
Varlarmov is like a $800K Hit, good luck getting him out of Was
Bos has Thomas and Rask – I bet they would keep Rask @ 1.25 and trade Thomas and his 5 mil hit…
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
I’ve actually been providing options fairly regularly. Both of those guys are established goalies who have never really done anything more for their teams than guys like Halak, Niemi, Lieghton, etc.
The entire point is we want to get away from having a 5+ mil goalie down to something half that at best. The numerical difference between top teir goalies and “average” goalies is one more save every 40 shots. Why not spend that money on defense and halve the number of shots your goalie is facing in the first place?
So, go after an affordable vet and platoon him with our numerous rookies and see if any rise to the top. It’s a gamble, but by sinking that money into defense we limit the amount of pressure those rookies see. Get a guy like Ellis, Mason, Biron, etc, that will work for 2 to 2.5 tops.
We’ve done the high paid goalie route for years and it rarely pays off for anybody. I’m just glad we’re not sitting on 8M for a decade for Luongo.
The reason people bring up price is because not only is he an experience goalie at this point, he’s also still very affordable and has a really high potential ceiling.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
As put very well by EvilDucks, we dont want to spend 5m on a goalie no matter what his name is (almost). and if we decide we want to they will resign nabby not trade for a vokoun or kipper.
I dunno...
We have had Nabby for sooo long (with Kipper and co) that i would be very concerned by not having a top tier tender…
And I have hated Turco for sooo long, jeez….
So why dont we just bring up a Karlsson, and put a top notch D in front (Add Martin, Leopold and that Hammer kid from Chi)… The #1 thing i would be most concerned with is if Nabby signed with like Det…
I sure do miss Warren Strelow, i dont think Nabby would be playing as reactionary if he was still around…
Oh and i completely retract my Vokoun Statement, I did not realize his playoff failures, nor his cap hit
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
If we could get Vokoun and somehow it was affordable and we had a lot of cheap entry level talent, I’d be all over it. I think he’s probably the best goalie in the league right now.
The thing is we can’t. I’m just as concerned with Nabby in net as I am when Greiss starts. I’d like to see what Greiss, Stalock, Karlsson, Sexsmith and Satieri are actually capable of, but that’s never going to happen when we’re paying a guy 5+ mil to be our starter. I’d rather have real competition between the pipes going on and people earning their spots. Also, Nabokov isn’t even the best guy to mentor our younger goalies as they all tend to be big butterfly goalies and he’s not, I’d rather get a vet that knows that style.
Even then, I think the era of the expensive goalie is coming to an end. The talent gap is too small and continually shifting to commit to any of these guys for long periods on big contracts.
So you’re right, that’s exactly what I want to do. Get some combination of Martin, Hammer, Volchenkov, Michalek, something to beef up the back end and start controlling the puck, make sure the focus is on protecting the goalie and cleaning up any kind of rebound and then moving the puck out of the zone. That’s what makes a lot of the teams that have done well in the playoffs good. They clean up the garbage and don’t give the opponent second chances. Nearly any goalie in the league will make the first stop, why spend the money on a goalie to prevent the second when you can spend it on the defense that can contribute elsewhere on the ice?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
They clean up the garbage.
It sounds to me like the Sharks need Coach Orion to teach them a thing or two.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 8, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Well...
I agree on most goaltenders stopping the first shot, I still beleive that this years playoffs is a fluke…
Didnt Leighton allow like 3 goals on 13 shots in game 5, just sayin I sitll beleive a good tender can steal a # of games for you in the playoffs, and not have breakdowns in between.
I also DO NOT want to copy the Chi Blueprint, But i agree with you in saying we must upgrade the D…
Is it just me, or does it feel like we had that D about 2 seasons ago (puck clearing, shot blocking)… and oh yeah, I know weare all talkin goaltender, and pretty much everyone thinks we will not bring up a youngin, but, What about Pitrecki to fill one of the defenders, I mean i know he was taking alot of penaltys last year, but couldnt he be coached up and take a spot. The kid is big, likes to hit, and has a cannon (could be a year or two out)…
I also applaud the Fin for not wanting Sourgay, I had a bad feeling about him (fantasy wise) last year, and a worse one for this season. I beleive we should identify young talent, an go after them (internal and external)…
While we are all dreaming, how dope would Enstrom be as our #3, that kid is good, he is a little costly (3.75/per), and Atl will probably never let him go, but he could provide some serious off in our second pairing while not having to worry about him being a liability defensively, add him to like Martin, and ooo boy…
oh yeah and while i have mad respect for mr. Blake, dudes gotta bounce. Sorry but i do not feel like he was skating “with” anyone in the postseason, he couldnt clear the crease (I bet Pitrecki could), and i do not remember him scoring, just feels like those Cap $’s could be better spent (and give the C to my boy)…
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
Complain and it shall happen
Nevermind Blake is gonna call it quits after the Cup
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
Okay this year is a fluke.
How about Fleury the year before? Osgood before that? Ward 4 years ago? etc.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Fleury and Ward were both on ELCs (Gigere too?), and now they all make ~5 million. (more i think)
That seems to be the trick. (Both Ward and Gigere broke their backs, making them overpaid, and MAF is a sham.)
Not even the Toronto Maple Leafs could kill my optimism
Tyler Ennis: Freed from Portland!
Jiggy wasn't on an ELC.
I don’t know how he could have been considering he was drafted in the mid-1990’s.
Proud member of the "Re-Sign Marleau" club.
Fear the Fin: Where Sharks Fans Aren't Like Other Sharks Fans.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 10, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok fine, we dont agree on the whole tender (except for my wanting to bring some kids up)
Ok fine, but what Enstrom , Pitrecki….
Cut me, and I Bleed Teal
by BoyleMaker22 on Jun 10, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Interesting
Here’s an article about Henrik Karlsson saying that he’s probably going back to playing in Sweden next year, and that as he understands it, the Sharks want to keep both Greiss and Nabokov.
Here’s the link to the google translated article: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhockey.expressen.se%2Felitserien%2F1.2013954%2Ftillbaka-i-sverige-men-nobbar-farjestad
It’s difficult to know what he means exactly or what his understanding of the situation really is (it’s probably just pure speculation on his part), and it was also translated from a different language. We probably shouldn’t read into it too much.
DP says he checked a Sharks source that dismissed this report its in the comments on the latest WTC.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
I think that conversation happened early in the playoffs.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I dunno, it definitely sounds like it happened after the playoffs since Karlsson is now back in Sweden talking about possible future plans in the Swedish league. The article was published on June 6th too.
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