David Perron's contract could help determine Devin Setoguchi's value
by TCY on Jul 21, 2010 5:05 PM PDT
in Armchair GM
128 comments
First off, let me start with an apology. We've been a little slow with new content around here lately, but that hasn't been completely our fault.
One, absolutely nothing Sharks related is happening. I don't know how many Bieksa and Kaberle rumors you want, but that's what we've got. Two, I've been spending every waking moment studying for my LEED exam (which I thankfully just passed). It's made for a perfect storm of Sharklessness.
Even though not much is going on in San Jose right now, a recent contract signed by another young RFA forward may shed some light on the contract negotiations currently underway with Devin Setoguchi. Although not much has been said about the talks (that have drawn out far longer than any of us expected), it's pretty apparent that both sides want resolution.
Via Sharkspage.com:
"We are hopeful that we will be able to work something out with the San Jose Sharks,"
-Setoguchi's agent Paul Krepelka.
Don't read too much into this comment. If anything, it's stock verbiage. I'm confident that something is going to get done between the two parties. However, it may not be for as much as originally expected.
A few months ago, I wrote a piece in the hopes of establishing Setoguchi's market value. I pegged the number at $3.6MM annually over four years, and most agreed with me at that point. As the offseason has progressed, we've come down from that number, settling in at around $3.2MM. We've never dipped below $3MM, and I would have called you crazy if you suggested it. However, David Perron's contract changes things a bit.
Now, I realize my track record hasn't been great when talking about contract comparables (Remember Marleau and Savard?). However, this one is a bit more realistic. Both Setoguchi and Perron are (Perron was) RFA's. They're both former first round picks. They're both young with high ceilings. Most importantly, though, they've both had similar production over the last few years.
I wanted to lay the stats out in a table, but for some reason it's not working. Just know this: Over the past two seasons, Perron has tallied 97 points, while Setoguchi has tallied 101.
According to capgeek.com (really, what isn't), Perron's new contract will pay him $4.3MM over the next two years. That's a cap hit of just $2.15MM a year, almost $1.5MM below where we originally pegged Setoguchi. Are 4 more points over two years worth that much?
I understand that Setoguchi was hurt for 12 games this year and that it affected his play even when he was back in the lineup. I even came to his defense when some suggested trading him at the deadline. However, the fact remains that the players are very similar, and Perron signed at a bargain for his team.
Setoguchi does have a few things working for him, though, including his 31 goal campaign in 2008-2009. That, and the fact that he has scored .67 points per game over the last few years, opposed to just .59 for Perron. In addition, Setoguchi showed up in the first round of the playoffs this year, something that netted Pavelski a few more dollars than most expected.
Setoguchi will get paid more than Perron, but how much more?
If I'm Doug Wilson, I continue to preach the concept of so called "team conscious" contracts and use this deal for a bit of leverage. If Setoguchi agrees to a term which is a tad longer, you bump up the dollar amount to keep him around. But there's no guarantee that any deal signed by Setoguchi will be in excess of $3MM annually, on average. The savings, whatever they may be, can be used to improve other sections of the team, and perhaps help woo a free agent such as Mike Modano.
What's important to remember, though, is how important Setoguchi is on this team. Loosing his talent offensively would affect the squad immensely, and his potential remains sky high three seasons into his NHL career. I think we all want him signed, and I think it's coming. The only question remaining is the cost.
Go Sharks.
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Setoguchi does have a few things working for him
But he doesn’t have a popular Twitter account. That should drive his value down, hopefully by a million or two.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I want to follow Ryane Clowe on twitter. I bet he would be hilarious.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
I dream of the day Douglas Murray signs up. Or Joe T.
Hell, I’d even take Couture right now – anybody.
You wouldn’t think those fools are living in Silicon Valley or anything. I can even have my buddy who works at Twitter give them an office tour and introduce them to founders.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Speaking of hockey twitter accounts...
All I have to say is RIP Paul Bissonnette’s twitter account. That was gold.
Seto's agent is going to walk into any negotiation and say
“Joe Pavelski got paid $4M. My client deserves at least $3M.”
David Perron does set a low value, but Pavelski sets a high one, extending the range a bit. Seto’s agent is simply going to say Seto’s contract should more resemble Pavelski as opposed to Parron.
Obviously, Seto to Perron comparisons are more apt than Seto to Pavelski, they’re different players. But in terms of worth to the Sharks, Seto’s going to get at least $3M. No way he settles for anything less.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Perron’s value to the Blues is similar, he was their 4th highest scorer this year.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Are the Blues internally capped?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
There’s certainly no cap on the number of players with Twitter accounts. It seems the whole team is on there!
And I think the better question is “Why AREN’T the Minnesota Wild internally capped?” They are somehow spending their way into the basement.
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I have a Twitter Thing.
Because Minnesota actually pulls in a large amount of money.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Having a rabid fan base, no competition within 100s of miles, and selling out every single game will do that. I have no clue why people continue to classify MIN as a small market team.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 22, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Because it’s the same small market that forced the North Stars to Dallas. It isn’t like suddenly everyone in MN got richer.
Jon Casey fan since '84
Founder of Feel the Teal.
I have a Twitter Thing.
That was far more on ownership than anything to do with the fanbase or their ability and willingness to poor money into the team.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah. All you have to do is ask a Northstars fan about that. It was all on the owner.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 23, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Different positions
Seto’s agent will surely try but still they are different positions.
But, who knows what will happen.
Still sticking to my $2.75m for 1 yr or $3m per / 2 yr guess.
by IsThisTheYear? on Jul 21, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it's a safe bet that it's a 1-year deal
Because he’ll be an RFA again, and there will be some more flexibility on both sides. I peg him 1-year, $2.5-$3M.
Alternatively, they could decide to go bonus heavy – if Seto is really worth the different in $0.3 mil, why not lay that out on some given bonus agreements.
Though, it would be nice for the Sharks not to have to every player and their mother’s pay variable due to bonuses (this would be the problem with Willie Mitchell)
If I remember correctly bonuses can only be given to players who
A. Are on an ELC
B. Missed a substantial amount of time (I cant remember the required amount of games) due to injury, consecutively.
C. 35 or older.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
correct.
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 25, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
From what I’ve heard, the Setoguchi deal is already done, just keeping it “in the drawer” for now. I think people will be a little surprised with it though.
So, the QO will be for what he made last year, based on the salary tiers and how they relate to QOs. What happens when he signs it? They then negotiate an actual contract? I’m still a bit hazy on that.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
by OtherKid on Jul 21, 2010 5:35 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah
The QO is just to keep the rights to them. No one has to sign it you just submit and then the RFA has the option to sign it or keep negotiating. At least thats what I think.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
TCY -
BTW, congrats on the exam. For us the ignorant ones, what’s LEED exam for?
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
It helps him stay AHEDD?
(ducks)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
Ouch
but it made me giggle. CONGRATS TCY!!!!!!!! What a brain!
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design. It’s a building certification system for commercial, residential and education buildings that achieve high levels of energy efficiency and are more beneficial to our environment.
It’s pretty cool. Check out usgbc.org for more info. Although the test is a royal pain in the ass.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Ah cool. Next time I’m building an energy efficient house, I know who to call for free advice.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I didn’t take the test to give out free advice.
;)
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Next time DW signs a Russian FA, I’ll help you out.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Ah yes, that means never.
Thanks for nothing DW.
DW – ruining people’s friendships since 2003.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
by Ivano M on Jul 21, 2010 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Too easy man.
You know I’d help you out whenever. Wherever. We’ll always be together. I’ll be there and you’ll be near. And that’s the deal my dear.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
I dunno about you, Ivan...
…but that’s a liiiiiitle creepy ;-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
Soooo RECd
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
You should look into these guys:
It’s a company that is making thermostats ‘Smart’. Just another way that we are all becoming energy efficient!
(They are also moving in to the office next to mine).
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
Age & Experience
Not sure how this applies, but a couple factors in the comparison are age and experience. Setoguchi is about a year and a half older than Perron, and was drafted two years before Perron.
Taking that into account, it’s no surprise that Setoguchi should command a higher salary than Perron. But at the same time, when evaluating their numbers and the slight difference in PPG, it’s hard not to think that with a couple more years in the league—and surrounded by better talent—Perron will have numbers that might eclipse Setoguchi’s from this past season. So really, I can’t help but think that something around $3 million per—maybe for just 2-3 years—is right for Setoguchi. It’s no surprise that his numbers went down this year, not just because of the injury, but because he didn’t play that much on Thornton’s line.
I’m not surprised at all that this negotiation is being dragged out, because there are so many more complicating factors (when compared to Pavelski) involved here. Nothing I’m too worried about, but it does make things difficult.
Is Setoguchi going to arbitration or does DW have all summer to get the deal negotiated? If he goes to an arbitrator he makes more than 3 easily, despite the Perron deal. The Caps have Flash going to arbitration and he’s going to get 3+. The problem is, Flash blows. Setoguchi is actually a pretty good player, and if you look at the arbitration decision, those guys must be high. You can go back a year and Zherdev got 3.9 and even Glen Sather thought that was too high. I was excited for what the Perron deal might mean for Flash’s arbitration, then I saw that Clarke MacArthur got 2.4 in an arbitration award. 2.4! For a 37 point season. I could theoretically see DW negotiating Setoguchi down to a sub-3 cap hit, but if it goes to arbitration it won’t be pretty.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 21, 2010 6:32 PM PDT reply actions
Lucky you guys. I hate Flash even more now. I don’t know enough about Setoguchi’s personality and it’s always risky predicting a hometown discount with athletes, but I could pretty easily imagine DW getting Setoguchi to agree to a cap friendly contract.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 21, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Love Seto as a player...
But by most accounts, he’s kind of a douche.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jul 21, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
He does a lot of community stuff, but as evidenced by his white sun glasses – total douche.
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
Better than a Ferrari.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 22, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah. BMW is more douche.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
Oh well. They’re people too. Bound to be some douches in the group. It’s unavoidable, really.
Lockout talk makes me want to go out and choke an old lady - Elliotte Friedman
by Fehr and Balanced on Jul 21, 2010 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but look at his shirt – Ed Hardy. Total douche.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Jul 21, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
ROTFL!
At last…the TRUE reason why this signing is taking so long.
Gooch: “What’s this clause? ‘Player can no longer weal Ed Hardy tee shirts’ all about.”
DW: Dude. Seriously?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
his shirt – Ed Hardy. Total douche.
Yes, I concur.
by JenLovesHockey on Jul 22, 2010 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Ovation Acoustic!
Totally Douchey!
Buy one with some real wood next time!
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
Ovation’s aren’t really for douchebags, they’re more for Cosby-sweater-wearing youth ministers, or that double rainbow (ALL THE WAY) guy.
This is the acoustic for douches:
The Ed Hardy shirt, uh, is more problematic.
by ievans on Jul 22, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's a big douche.
But if I were him. I’d be one too.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions
White sunglasses are the relevant issue here.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
You have white sunglasses, don't you?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
by Noctro on Jul 23, 2010 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He knows/thinks
he’s the shit…I’ve said it before my friend met him at a club she had no idea who he was and when she asked he’s like Uhm I’m Devin Setoguchi with the San Jose Sharks like she was expected to know who he was. He gave her his number and added her on FB and everything but she said he was really really into himself. I don’t quite blame him.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
lol I had no idea…I thought he was a nice quiet boy from Western Canada, and we all know that you don’t do that crap when you’re from Western Canada lols. Oh Babcock…
That joke will never get old.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions
We issued him a QO
So I don’t know how we go to arbitration from here. My knowledge of RFAs is a bit thin.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
He’d have to file for arbitration. Deadline already passed without him filing.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
I think Seto signs around 3MM
No Modano please!
Blah blah blah JR, blah blah blah Modano could be the same. I say no! I hate that bastard! Need I remind people of the SI Article from 1998 on Modano?
I want no part of a San Jose Shark’s team with that Dbag on it.
Oh wow. Hadn't read that article. Thanks for sharing.
"Sorry guys, I’m not going to try and hit (Douglas) Murray anymore. It doesn’t work." - Steve Ott, Dallas Stars.
by SwisherThresher on Jul 21, 2010 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions
That last pic in the article is worth $3.2M
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Founder: Retire Teal #20 with Honors Club
Maybe he can get a front office job with the Sharks when he retires
So he can “do his part to educate us about the game”.
Imagine Mike “hair farmer” Ricci, Bryan “knee specialist” Marchment, and Mike “Professor” Modano hanging out in the coaches’ box at the Tank. That much awkward makes Marleau look suave.
Mush was awesome in that series
I only wish we had a Motherfucker like that on the team now.
I’m off to fondle my Mush sweater.
"iaT"S FUCKINGE LIEK CONICO DO MAYO!!!!!111"
Mr. K. 5/5/2009
UFA defensemen
vs. RFA Forward. The contracts aren’t comparable.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Exactly. I’d be fine with Seto making less than Wallin, because that would mean that we got an absolute DEAL for Seto. And it would make sense, because as we saw with the reaction to Hjalmarsson’s offer sheet, teams almost always sign their own RFAs and therefore have an advantage in contract negotiations.
"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
setoguchi
i dont get why everyone favors getting ride of clowe instead of seto. While seto has a ton of potential, clowe does as well. Not only can he score goals but he hits, fights, makes plays, steps up in the playoffs(except for 09), is a leader. while seto can put the puck in the net i dont really care how many 30-40 goal seasons he has(or will have), the only thing that matters is what does he do in the playoffs. Clowe has a skill set that is much more valuable to a team that has struggled to find postseason success. The fact of the matter is if the sharks had a little more clowe and a little less seto we might already have a cup.
He is a tenacious forechecker, he has speeed (something the Sharks dont have a lot of) he has a lot more potential than Clowe. Clowe is 27 and Seto is 23. And guys who are gritty and fight are easier to find than 30 to 40 goal scorers. And the playoff argument? How is that not getting old? These playoffs Clowe 10 P, Seto 9. 1 Point less. Gooch also scored 5 goals. And if you watched the games you woud see seto was a motherfucker, he was a man on a mission these playoffs. Idealy neither would be traded but if you had to choose one, keeping Clowe over Seto isnt smart.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
Seto consistently was first in on the forecheck...
Clowe disappeared entirely at the beginning of the Red Wings series in game 2…
Go Sharks!
Clowe sometimes is a super big dumbass
With his useless penalties and bone-headed plays…he is also slow and as Krish mentioned, he is older and as much if not more inconsistent then Seto…Moreover, his cap his is f***ing huge at 3.6M.
Go Sharks!
I agree on the cap....if that man wasn't greedy and took Seto money I don't think people would be thowing the guy into the fire like this.
Secondly, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m really sick of hearing Clowe sucks ass and Seto is Jesus Christ’s little shit that everyone must worship. It’s gotten to the point where I’ve tried looking up stats and figuring out what the hell it means and yes, I am putting myself out there and I might need a Hockey Stats for Dummies book but the numbers seem pretty much the same between the two.
Where one super DUPER lacks the other one has huge numbers and vice versa. I can also try to be as unbaised as possible and agree that Seto has youth on his side. He does have talent TOO. They both do. Everyone jumps on the Clowe train when he does well and the minute he dissapears everyone says he sucks ass and he’s slow. Yes, his play and his brain sometimes is frustrating but he’s still just as good of a player as Seto. Plus taking fighting penalty minutes to stick up for guys like Cooter and Pavy or even Marleau is not stupid and no shame in that. You think Seto is going to try and take down Perro…thinkie again.
I understand why people want to trade Clowe vs Seto but clowning on Clowe and his skill is just crap. I’ve given my 2 cents. I’m out. Go ahead tear to me to pieces and lynch me. I don’t care.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Hah, I won’t tear you to pieces. I’ve definitely said that if it came down to choosing between the two, I’d rather keep Seto, but I’ve also never clowned on Clowe. I love the guy, love the skill set he brings to the table, and would hate to see him go, but again, between the two, I’d still have to go with Seto. Sure, youth is part of it, but Seto’s also more consistent (this past season being an aberration due to injury, of course). When Clowe brings his a-game, he’s lights out, but that doesn’t happen as often as it should considering his cap hit.
I’m sure next to nobody wants to see any of the core players go, least of all me, and when and if that happens, I’ll probably be just as devastated as you.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
If you can only choose one
You choose the guy who is younger and cheaper. That’s a Salary Cap decision. Witness Nabby being replaced by Nitty.
As for playoff performance, it was the entirety of the Pavs-Seto-Clowe line that carried us through round one and large parts of round two. You seem to believe that Ryane Clowe was significantly better than Devin Setoguchi during this past playoff run. That’s highly debatable. All three of those guys were important, and we’d like to keep them both. But if we want a shiny new defenseman, Ryane Clowe becomes expendable cap-wise and age-wise. He’s at that point in his career where he’s no longer a kid or a prospect. Seto can still be considered a kid. We would lose a ton if Clowe left, but, well, sacrifices and trade-offs and all that.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I like this poll.
It’s one of the rare ones where it flips you off.
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
I voted for $3M, but I took it to mean about $2.9M-$3.1M.
"I just twoted all over the place!"
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Does team financial position matter?
St. Louis could have coughed up a lot more money for Perron and still had an enviable amount of room under the cap.
There are two ways to apply this to the Sharks signing Setoguchi:
1) Sharks’ spin — Even a team with plenty of cap room is not willing to spend $3M on a player similar to Setoguchi. For the Sharks, who are much closer to the cap, paying more than market value is not an option.
2) Seto’s spin — The Blues are playing it cheap and are underpaying their entire roster. The team has a top salary of $4.7M and only eight players above $2.5M. Their “comparable” signings are skewed and do not represent true market value. The Sharks have four players above $6.5M, and have shown that they are willing to pay to keep talented players (e.g. Pavs).
I’m still confused as to how qualifying offers work. Here’s what I do know: based on Seto’s salary last year, the QO should be for 100% of what he made. What’s his motivation to sign it if there aren’t any guarantees he’ll get more than that? Does signing it just amount to Seto agreeing to enter into exclusive negotiations with San Jose for a new contract? Or do they negotiate the contract before he agrees to sign the QO? Does the QO state a length of time, or just that amount of money?
I think a lot of us don’t fully understand the nuances of restricted free agency, especially the qualifying offer aspect.
..:Fear The Fin:..
The artist formerly known as cyoung
Perron is going to be a 30g/30a player in a few years, hes been consistently trending upwards and will probably put up 25/25 next year at the least when the team gets a bit more organized. Based on his previous stats I figured he was worth 2.5mil, would have gotten 3.0 and if he wanted to really push the team could have gotten 3.5. He has completely undercut my lowball expectations. Seto had 1 monster year and 2 pretty good ones but right now they are the same player with Perron having more potential.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
Perron has… more potential?
I’d seriously debate that.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
Primarily because you think Perron’s ceiling is as a 30-30 player.
Setoguchi has already scored 31 goals in a season. That same season, he added 34 assists. That’s 65 points.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
I think he will put up 30/30 regularly, not sure what his ceiling will be. Perron did 20/30 this year and the first half of the year was stacked against him till we switched coaches. He also didn’t play with regular linemates and was juggled around the lineup for most of the season line the rest of the roster and hes a year and a half younger. Also this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfWACHhLYg . Seto put up his 30/35 season playing with Marleau and Thornton with 11 being PPG. Its debatable but I think Perron will end up being the better player. They are very similar though like I said and would definitely use Perrons contract as an example if I was sharks management.
He raged at the world, at his family, at his life. But mostly he just raged.
Just because Jay McClement is the best defensive forward in the NHL doesn't mean he should win the Selke.
i can say i definately havent seen any of that from setoguchi
by withintheruins14 on Jul 23, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions
gooochi vs clowe
i guess what i am getting at is if we get rid of clowe we will start creeping back towards the problems in 08-09 not enough grit(and other things). who will be brought in to replace clowe, and i am not talking about an enforcer, im talking about a powerfoward who creates space for others(like a dustin buttfucklikin). I personally like clowe but wouldnt be opposed to getting rid of him to better the d as long as we get someone to replace him to a certain extent.
When is the last time you saw Clowe getting in the eyes of the goalie or creating space up the midde?
Clowe has all the tools to be that player, but he doesn’t apply himself in that way. Pavelski did more of it in these playoffs.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by TCY on Jul 22, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Yes
Clowe has all the tools and talent to be a good player but can’t seem to key it in and keep consistent. Probably the most frustrating thing about being his fan.
I’ll give him a call and let him know he should play the Byfugly way and to stay awesome at all times. In all seriousness though, who else on our team does/can get in the eyes of the goalie? I never hear anyone else suggest another guy aside Clowe. Can someone shed some light on why he’s the only person up for that role? Is it his size?
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Because hes the right build and type player. He just doesnt do it sadly. I love Clowe and if it werent for his 3.6 mil cap hit I wouldnt wanna trade him.
"Hes like a Sweedish Bear" -Randy Hahn 4/8/10
Dont boo your team!
So no one else on our team has the same build/type player
we only have one player who (potentially but doesn’t live up to it) can play the role of Buttfugly and it is Clowe? I’m not trying to be a smartass/snarking anyone I’m honestly asking. I don’t think Clowe is the only big body on the team.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Joe, Patty and Heater are all comparable in size
We have this blind spot when it comes to Clowe that he’s going to be our Holmstrom. Fact of the matter is, Clowe’s game is just as much about his own puck possession as it is about crease crashing. When he puts his mind to it, he’s a very slick skater and deft puck-handler, just as much as he’s a net screener.
I really hope his line stays together, because if they do, they cycle like the Sedins, except that there’s three of them. Puck Possession wins games.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
nicely put thank you for taking the time to explain this to me.
I really really hope he can pull it together and be who he really can/should be for us rather for another team. I’d be happy for him but I can’t imagine what would be worse for a fan. Seeing your player go and then watching him get better and demolish your own team.
I dunno…oh this is supposed to be Seto’s article so. ZOMFGTRADECLOWEKEEPSETOHESTHEBESTASIANEVARRRRRRR
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 22, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I just think he’s perfect for that role. He’s got a big body that helps him screen goaltenders, he’s got the strength required to hold his own in front of the net, and he’s got great hands which make him a perfect candidate for deflecting pucks in the net or getting second chances off of rebounds.
What better role is there for Clowe? He’s a poor skater so having a role that doesn’t require him to skate around much is perfect, and he doesn’t really have the hockey sense to be a playmaker who dishes pucks from behind the net or from the boards like he seems to try to do.
We need the Clockwork Orange chair set up, then strap in Clowe and make him watch clips of Phil Esposito, Dave Andreychuck, and Tomas Holmstrom picking up the garbage, looped.
Then show him clips where he tries blind drop passes or stickhandles through the neutral zone and make him throw up.
whatever works to make him better
I’m all for it!!!
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Jul 23, 2010 6:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a btw
if Seto filed for arbitration one of the things that the agents can’t use is other UFA’s signed contracts. Or maybe I misread.
He has not filed for arbitration.
"I just twoted all over the place!"
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
raffi torres
what about getting raffi torres to cushion the blow of getting rid of clowe to better the d. isnt he a free agent and if i remember right there were talks before the deadline that favored trading clowe for torres. also if i remember right isnt torres’ cap hit around 2 mil or at least it was last year and there is no real reason to suggest that he should make more this year. i dont know much about torres but from what ive heard hes similar to clowe except cheaper. what yall think about that.
There are people who are advocates for Raffi Torres
I am not one of them. He could come for reasonably cheap, sure, but I think we’ll get just as much boneheaded penalty taking as we will good play making.
By and large, our forward crop is very good. We don’t NEED to bring in another scorer. And as far as I know, Torres is not a great defensive forward. If we WERE to bring in a forward, it would have to be someone who was (a.) a top flight face-off man (b.) a top flight penalty killer or (c.) a top flight shutdown checking forward. The team needs better defense all around. If you want to bring a new forward to the mix, it has to be someone accountable in their own end.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
this is pretty sick
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFqlBHbY3rM
makes me feel a little better for the kaberle rumors
by withintheruins14 on Jul 23, 2010 2:51 PM PDT reply actions
on the horrible flipside i cannot find a video of any hit unless it as on him
by withintheruins14 on Jul 23, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Woo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eni3tZdeaKg&feature=related
Tick Tock, Tomas. Tick Tock.
A drinking team with a hockey problem.
by nhlcheapshot on Jul 25, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Mason Raymond just signed a two year $5.1 mil (total) contract
This might be another comparable for Seto’s contract. Though Seto put up better numbers 2 seasons ago, Raymond is a player who put up comparable numbers to Seto this last season.
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