Kaberle staying in Toronto, what does this mean for San Jose?
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 16, 2010 7:36 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
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PrintSo, the Tomas Kaberle trade deadline came and went, and he's still a Maple Leaf. Although the Sharks were involved at the onset, it appears as if they dropped out of the running as early as Saturday afternoon.
I've flip flopped on this topic for a while now, but you have to think that Wilson's strategy was pretty set in stone. We should have realized that with the extension given to Jason Demers, Wilson effectively decided who his second power play quarterback would be.
We talked about Jason Demers' emergence as an NHL regular, but now, he's going to be asked to do much more than that. Even if Wilson were to bring in Willie Mitchell or Kevin Bieksa, Demers would still be expected to provide heavy minutes on the man advantage. Although it's quite possible that he'll improve from his "Sharks Rookie of the Year" season, it's almost a guarantee that the established Tomas Kaberle will score more points on a poorer Toronto squad. He's got experience, and he's playing for a new contract.
While that might not be the make or break factor deciding the Sharks season, the lack of another power play quarterback is going to send some ripples through the roster. Dan Boyle will again have to play a high number of minutes, and as of today, it looks like Niclas Wallin will be finding himself in the top four.
However, Wilson's not done, and the possibility remains that one of Bieksa, Mitchell or another defenseman will be calling San Jose their new home. There aren't really any legitimate puck movers left available, but Wilson hinted that he's looking for "grit" and not "glitz", out of his new blue liner. Per Nick Kypreos of Sportsnet.ca on Twitter:
With Bieksa and Mitchell in play, its slowed the urgency for Kaberle. As of now teams like SJ seems more interested in grit than finesse.
Perhaps that's the right choice. Perhaps it's not. We wont know until the trade deadline at the earliest. At that time, when it's likely that Tomas Kaberle will be shopped again, we'll find out if Doug Wilson had the foresight to see what this team truly needed.
This puts the onus on more than just Wilson and Demers to make this decision look like a good one. Ryane Clowe, who was rumored to be on the move for Kaberle, will have to show that he's willing to play the power forward role he's being paid for. Marc-Edouard Vlasic must also show that he's capable of rebounding from a season in which he regressed offensively.
As of this morning, the team remains in limbo. I stated earlier this month that yesterday would mark an important date in the Sharks offseason. As the day came and went, and Mitchell and Kaberle remained in their respective places, it looks like that prediction was wrong. However, we should have expected as much.
Wilson has never been one to play by another's deadline. His vehemence in not getting bamboozled may be an admirable trait, but it's one that tortures his fans and the people covering the team.
Go Sharks.
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Awesome, another post at the top of the page where I can fawn all over Mitchell.
Why have we not signed him yet? Seriously.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Apparently he was spotted in LA yesterday hanging out with Kings executives. If true, might not be a good sign.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I dont think Willie to LA is a done deal. Other teams (Van, SJ, Wash) still in play. Gonna probably depend on the offers.
by SharksFanTillDeath on Aug 16, 2010 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions
The trouble here is that we all know who’s the first to quit bidding wars – DW.
I hope I’m wrong.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Hey, DW didn’t quit on trying to get Heatley. And we all know that there were multiple suitors for him (LOL EDMONTON)
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
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Fools and Sages
Ivano's right...
and LOL – there were no REAL ones except us because Edmonton didn’t count…as Nabby correctly mentioned, “Who would want to play for Edmonton?”
Go Sharks!
Weren’t the Kings trying to get him as well? I sort of forget what happened during that hectic period, except that 48 hours in Canada time really means one to two months.
And why couldn’t have Nabby been that funny when he played for us? I know, I know, he didn’t want to step on any toes, but I wish he talked more about how much Edmonton sucks, haha.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
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You may be thinking about Kings because of the whole “Marleau to to the Kings” rumor few days before the actual trade. I don’t remember that there was ever a real offer on the table from LA.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Weren’t the Kings trying to get him as well? I sort of forget what happened during that hectic period, except that 48 hours in Canada time really means one to two months.
And why couldn’t have Nabby been that funny when he played for us? I know, I know, he didn’t want to step on any toes, but I wish he talked more about how much Edmonton sucks, haha.
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Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
That would be less than ideal…if he’s not going to sign with us, I want him out East where he can’t hurt us.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 16, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
On the plus side
He’ll actually BE in LA, which will show him what a craphole it is and why he needs to come north.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Maybe he'll hop a flight North...
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I say we just beat up Rudy and tell him he can’t have Mitchell. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
You mean we have to TALK to Rudy?
Can’t we just beat him up instead?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Sorry TCY but unless something just recently changed Nick Kypreos works for Rogers Sportsnet rather then TSN.
Trying to be helpful and not a douche I promise :-p
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
Oh thanks! Sorry, early morning sourcing will do that to you.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 16, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions
It means we can sign mitchell
:D lets hope so.
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Aug 16, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions
There were LOTS of offers for Kaberle, apparently
Reportedly, Columbus offered Filatov, Brassard and a first…wonder why in the hell Burke would turn that down..Columbus is probably gonna be a lottery team..
Add Filatov in..
I read that somewhere(no, NOT eklund)..if its true…well, i dont know what to say
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Aug 16, 2010 9:13 AM PDT reply actions
I don’t think that rumor was true.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 16, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions
probably..
Burke isnt THAT stupid…the only manager stupid enough is probably Milbury or JFJ..
speaking of JFJ, isnt he working for the Sharks now?
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Aug 16, 2010 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
He’s working as a scout for the organization.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
My Twitter
DAMN IT
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Aug 16, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
As long as he’s not in the consideration for a GM position if/when DW ever leaves, I think we’ll be fine.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
My Twitter
drafting and waiver wire pick ups were the only two things JFJ seemed good at, so being a scout should be fine
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Clowe definitely played his Power Forward role when it mattered most, through the playoffs. The only ease up was not getting in front of Niemi as much as he should have, but then again when the Sharks would get zone time and get the puck deep, he usually had the puck a lot keeping it down low on the cycle.
I actually feel really good about the Sharks not getting Kaberle. As has already been beaten to death on this site, the Sharks need a more defensive minded guy. Kaberle would not have solved our problems.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
I don’t think it was ever an either/or kind of situation
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Thank you.
Fear the Fin: Sharing Joe Thornton's love of wooly mammoths since 2009.
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 16, 2010 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I know it wasn’t technically an either/or, I just had a hard time imagining DW getting 2 big name D-men this offseason.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
by sharks in oc on Aug 16, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah i’m totally ok with not getting Kaberle. How would a Vlasic/Kaberle line really have worked? Neither of them plays physical at all really. We’d be better off pairing Vlasic and Boyle together.
Plus Kaberle is always talking about how much he loves toronto and has implied that he wants to go back to toronto when he becomes a UFA. So i’m glad we haven’t lost Clowe or any other valuable assets for a 1 year rental player that may not have worked out that well anyways.
As long as we sign Willie Mitchell i’ll be super happy. Although we still have to get rid of huskins somehow.
Was San Jose really serious about that guy? I mean, if Mitchell was still up...
We might not NEED to give up Clowe. Far better scenario there. IMO.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Getting Kaberle wouldn’t have eliminated our blue line need for a motherfucker…it just would have helped out on the power play and in reducing Boyle’s minutes. As Evilducks said above, it wasn’t an either/or kind of thing.
Personally, I’m not particularly pleased that it appears we’re going to be counting on Boyle for upwards 27-30 minutes a night again. That’s a quick way to wear out your best defenseman. But if the asking price was astronomically high for one year of Kaberle, then its a good thing we passed.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 16, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
That was my main thing about Kaberle – the asking price seemed way too high for a guy only under a team’s control for one year. I’d be fine with giving up Joslin and a first for Kaberle, even better with Joslin, Huskins, and a third, but it seemed like Burke was looking for much, much more. And, frankly, one year of Kaberle isn’t worth that much.
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Fools and Sages
Yeah, and honestly it worries me to give up any of our worthwhile assets for a guy who’s previous head coach benched so much. Same goes for Bieksa really; Canuck fans really don’t like Bieksa and they’re dying to see him moved.
I’d like to get a player that was actually liked for their play on the ice by their previous team/fans/coach.
Have to equivocate that Khaaz. Not all Canuck fans hate Bieksa. He is an exciting player, just high risk, high reward.
Like, in the playoffs, he made a mistake that was bad, and cost a game, but then came back later in the series and scored two goals and set up another.
Not dying to see him go, but its just that our defense is so deep that 3.75 for a third pairing guy, and the only one without a NMC, makes him the one to be purported to be going.
The truth is, he is liked by fans, players, and coaches…just got a bad rep for some uneven play…he is still young.
But guys that play top 4 minutes, hit, fight, and get you around 10 goals and 40 points have some definite value…mental lapses and all. Every other coach looks at him and says…“I can work with the guy better than their coach did…”
Kaberle was benched?
When?
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I might’ve exaggerated that a bit, I dunno if he was benched this season but Wilson definitely benched Kaberle the year before this last season and there have been rumors about them not liking each other since.
They don’t like eachother, but I’m pretty darn sure Kaberle’s never been benched since Wilson took over.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 17, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
In reducing Boyle's minutes
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Dan Boyle CAN NOT play more than 25 minutes a night. Ideally, we should see him go for 20-22.
I think we don’t require Dan Boyle 2.0 to do that however. If memory serves, against Detroit, Vlasic/Blake had very high +/- numbers. And we scored a fair number of goals that series. I think a true shutdown pairing could make our offense click just as much as a dynamic skater like Boyle. It’s easier to play offense when you’re not being scored on.
That and the FA/trade situation for a more shutdown type like Mitchell just makes Kaberle less appealing, like you said.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
That’s a good point. If we get a good shutdown guy or two, maybe we can reduce Boyle’s minutes on the PK side of things next season. Either way, I want to see his minutes reduced to the 22-24 minute range.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 16, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh where, oh where, has our prized defenseman gone...
Oh where, oh where can he be?
Waiting for the June when the 'San Jose Sharks' become the 'Stanley Cup Sharks.'
by SharkFanInHawkCountry on Aug 16, 2010 10:25 AM PDT reply actions
Is that a sick joke?
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
Unfortunately, I don’t think DW was joking when he resigned him.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Just horribly depressing.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I really think he’s a decent 3rd pairing, PK guy… overpaid for that role, sure, but whatever, we’re not against the cap atm anyway.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I think we’ll grow to like the guy.
One thing we often forget – he came in injured, then got re-injured in playoffs.
Just like Huskins a year ago, we haven’t seen his possibilities when he’s healthy. And he’s better than Huskins.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I’ve convinced myself he’ll be steady on the blueline.
/shrug.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I just can’t get over his face in this photo – it’s like maniacal glee, almost like he’s willing the puck into the net. So, on the plus side, Wallin has telekinesis, on the negative, he’s using it on the wrong side.
It would explain his contract size.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Wilson vs. Willie Mitchell
Wilson is definitely not going to make him the best offer $$ wise. With asking guys like Pavs and Seto and everyone else to essentially take pay cuts to “help the team”, he’s probably telling Mitchell the same thing.
DW’s probably saying “Look, I’m not gonna pay you as much as other teams might, because we want to be able to win championships and feel that everyone needs to buy in to the team fist concept. You would be no exception to that rule. So it’s up to you what’s more important, $$ or winning.”
That’s good logic, but it’s not like San Jose is the only place where he’ll be able to win. He has probably just as high of a chances to be a winner in Vancouver or Washington, or maybe even in LA in a couple of years.
Look at Malhotra – playing for a winner, AND earning big paycheck.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Except we have enough money to pay him.
And we didn’t give Wallin a paycut.
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Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Caps have $2M more cap space than we do, with one less player to sign.
Either way, I don’t think Mitchell is looking at big money this year. Not until he can prove he’s healthy again.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
With one less player to sign?
Don’t we have a full roster?
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Mitchell is injury prone. Let other teams take the risk. Bieksa FTW
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I disagree. Put him on performance bonuses.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Mitchell is injury prone. Let other teams take the risk. Bieksa FTW
http://www.reverbnation.com/syc
http://www.facebook.com/thesyckid
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I disagree. Put him on performance bonuses.
(sorry, couldn’t resist)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Whom do you think DW is looking at on the trade market?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Bieksa is the only name I know that is definitely available.
If Kaberle is staying put, I wonder how the Leafs defense is going to shake out…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
ED (or anyone)...
How many NTCs are we looking at on the Leafs? They’re going to have to do something. They are WAY too backheavy.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Komiserek and Kaberle are the only two with NTCs, at least on the back end.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Finger might as well have one, given his level of play and $3.5 million paycheque.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 16, 2010 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Ugh
Huskins played 82 games last year and was a plus player. He was hardly the reason we didn’t get past the conference finals. Yeah, the amount is high, but not by that much. Seriously, what team in this league doesn’t have a few mil too much tied to players on their rosters?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
His play went 75% of the way to justifying his price tag
We were all baffled at the initial signing is all I’m saying.
Right now, Huskins looks like a steal in comparison with Wallin.
I think Old Man Fletcher messed up a decimal point…
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 17, 2010 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Hopefully DW is still working..
.. and has something creative up his sleeve.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
So...
Puck Daddy is pimping articles that talk about the Leafs moving Luke Schenn now (as well as the idea that Kaberle will be converted to forward). I tend toward believing that about as much as reports of us moving Couture, but it got me to thinking about how he’d look in teal. I don’t really know enough about Schenn (aside from his being touted as a big prospect) to be able to make a realistic analysis though. Anyone have any thoughts?
He has potential, but doesn’t fill any of the holes we have right now.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He could fill them all, potentially. Hes a really good young shutdown defensive defenseman who has shown some offensive potential. I think if he were to actually become available that we should really look into a trade for him.
He has the potential to become a very good shutdown defensemen. He is not currently and got benched several times on the Leafs last year. He certainly doesn’t fix any of the problems we currently have and the price tag he’ll come with makes current holes even bigger.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Ah. That would probably explain the things I’ve heard about them calling him their future captain and then him suddenly becoming hypothetical trade bait.
That’s the T.O way!
Luke Schenn is potentially good, but I would wager, at least the 1st year anyways, he would get well and truly owned in the West.
There is a reason the East was so bad against the West last year.
The Tweets say that Willie worked out and tested with the Nucks, Sharks, and Kings. Going to the Caps next.
Though, as a Canucks fan, I know it’s just giving GMMG time to trade Bieksa so he can resign at home!!
( just having fun guys…easy! )
Schenn is still a really talented player with a lot of potential and we have enough cap space that signing him wouldn’t hurt us this season. It could be a great investment for the future, if not a move that could help us a bit now as well. Plus Schenns cap hit is all bonuses, which he may not actually hit. Really his cap hit is 875k i believe.
If we moved Murray and Huskins we’d have 7.3 million to sign Mitchell and Schenn which would be more than enough. We could even keep Murray and send Leach to the minors or whatever if we could get Mitchell to sign a contract with a low cap hit + bonuses.
We really have a ton of cap space. If only we could go back to July 1st…
I don’t think anyone would have issues with signing a player like Schenn as a UFA. The problem is that trading for him would cost quite a bit as he’s still considered something of a blue chip prospect. His rookie year was quite good, and while he’s regressed a bit, he still is young and ought to develop into a good shutdown dman quite nicely. The problem is it would take something like a (1st+Petrecki+Murray+McGinn) or Couture to get TOR to pick up the phone.
Those would be the holes I’m talking about. Odds are they wouldn’t want Huskins or Murray as they’re loaded on defense anyway (that’s why they’d trade Schenn after all.) They’d want wingers, good ones.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
He was benched two games for “trying to do too much”. Common when you’re a 20 year old defenseman.
"The only way out is in a body bag. Go Leafs Go." - Blinky
by Karina on Aug 17, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
1st time post.
Been reading this stuff all season. Finally figured out how to get on myself. You guys are great. Looking forward to being part of the buzz. Privet Ivano.
spaciba balshoy (Big Thanks)
I’m an American. But I’m very Slavic at heart. My wife is Ukranian so my second language skills will be more in that direction.
Ya znau...vse ponimau shto ti govorish :-) Ne nado perevodit :p
Keep working on it – you’re doing a good job!
Go Sharks!
Yeah
He finally rid him self of them all together this year.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Where is Ivano in this thread?!
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
About 30 posts ^ that way.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Is it too late to nix my idea of cloning Joe Pavelski 15 times and have them play every position?
We could even change the name to the ‘Fightin’ Joes.’ C’mon DW. You have the money, let’s see it happen.
Waiting for the June when the 'San Jose Sharks' become the 'Stanley Cup Sharks.'
by SharkFanInHawkCountry on Aug 17, 2010 8:54 AM PDT reply actions
I like it...
A true Silicon Valley hockey team :D
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Mitchell decision to hopefully come by the end of the week
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
THE WAIT IS KILLING ME
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
Pick the Sharks…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Ugh, the more i think about it the more I think Mitchell will go back to the Canucks. AAAHHGGGHHH PLZ WILLIE COME TO SAN JOSE!
Shh...
xXxXxXxXxXxXxXxXx
(that’s me crossing my fingers many times over)
We probably have a legitimate shot.
Except. I want to know when he actually came and worked out for the Sharks, because he’s been spotted everywhere else but here. It’s a bit concerning.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
stupid...
ESPN Rumors says:
Sharks offered Couture?
They may have offered him for Bieksa.
No freaking way…
ESPN covers hockey?
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
by sharks in oc on Aug 17, 2010 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Couture, the future 1st or 2nd center of this franchise for the next decade for a year of a guy whose concussions may come back as soon as on a trip to Sweden?
Eklund now works for ESPN?
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
by Ivano M on Aug 17, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
bwahahaha
The lack of hockey rumors calls is truly desperate times for hockey writers… I’m sure even the ESPN guys have a word count they need to hit or something.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
by ninakix on Aug 17, 2010 9:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1. Superslam.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
The lack of hockey is showing
I had no idea we were trying to get him. :[
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
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