Willie Mitchell signs with LA Kings
According to multiple outlets, the LA Kings have signed UFA Defenseman Willie Mitchell to a two year contract worth approximately $7MM.
over 1 year ago
Matthew_Taylor
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Bleargh.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 25, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions
Poop
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
Oh well. We’ll just get the best guy available at the trade deadline.
Drew Remenda would praise a bottle of child poison if it had a picture of Darryl Sutter on it.
Battle of California
And we’ll give up too much for him, and then he’ll suck and never fit in with the team. And then DW will sign him to too much money in the next offseason. Awesome. I love the trade deadline acquisitions of this team…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
LOL Jokinen
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Jokes on you!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The Kings scored the 8th most goals in the NHL last season.
by thehappydaisys on Aug 26, 2010 7:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, kind of ruins the day...and possibly the week.
After obsessively monitoring Twitter for weeks now for news about this, WM signing with LA is hardly what I wanted to hear, particularly considering they’re a division rival. I’m sure I’m not alone in this. I guess I always just assumed the Kings weren’t realistically in the running due to their apparent inability to make a splash so far this offseason, combined with the fact that, well, it’s LA, and it isn’t one of the better hockey towns, particularly when compared to SJ. Admittedly, LA does have the cap space to play with, despite having some potentially expensive RFAs to lock down in a year.
Ugh…just ugh.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Well, that's disappointing...
Not really surprised, though. LA was the one rumored suitor I was most worried about, because they wanted to make a big splash (and didn’t end up using their cap space on Kovy) and I feared they would make the best offer no matter what.
Not sure how this shapes the Pacific race, but our defense still needs help.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:48 AM PDT reply actions
Yeah, you know what this means, though? Simmonds, Doughty, and Johnson are all RFAs in a year.
..:Fear The Fin:..
No one’s prying Doughty out of LA. I have a feeling he’ll get a mid-season extension, before he can get offer-sheeted.
Simmonds and Johnson in teal… kinda a nice thought.
Doughty going anywhere else is as likely as Crosby or Toews or Pavelski playing anywhere else than where they’re playing.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I was more implying that they won’t be able to keep all of those players, not necessarily that Doughty will be lured away.
..:Fear The Fin:..
LA has a crapton of cap space…they will be able to keep everyone they want.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Simmonds and certainly Johnson are replaceable.
Kopitar, Brown and Doughty are not and will be core of the team for years.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
How is Johnson replacable?
The guy is still one of the most talented young D men in the league. Potential stud number 1 guy in the future. D men normally develop slowly and Johnson is no where near his prime. Having two studs like that is not something many teams can say they have. LA would be stupid to let him go.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 25, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Johnson is? Are you sure you’re not confusing him with Doughty?
Johnson isn’t even in the same league as Vlasic.
In my eyes, at least.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Jack Johnson
is a future STUD. He is about to come into his prime and figure out how to be a top D man. The guy has as much nature ability as anyone and once he puts it all together combined with his mean streak he will be very hard to play against. Not sure if you are overvaluing your guy or undervaluing your rivals guy or maybe a little of both.
And I am pretty sure I am not confusing him with the best D man in the league.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 25, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Well it's close
but I prefer Doughty. If he isn’t the best D man in the league now he will be by this time next year.
"We love them, We mourn for them, Unlucky boys of Red" - Morrissey
"Giggs gets past Viera, past Dixon, who comes back at him, it's a wonderful run from GIGGS!!!" - Martin Tyler
"He's got a man deep..wait, no that IS Mandeep!!" - Don Taylor
by Section 312 on Aug 25, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions
To say that Vlasic and Johnson are different types of players would be one matter entirely, as would to say that Vlasic is better positionally and defensively at this point in his career, whereas Johnson is better offensively. But to state that Johnson isn’t even in Vlasic’s league, despite Johnson being the stronger player, the more physical player, the faster and better skating player overall, the better passing player, and the player with the hardest shot, is completely ridiculous. Clearly at this point in his career, Vlasic still possesses better hockey sense than Johnson, and makes less mistakes, but given that Johnson is stronger in almost all other areas of the game, most hockey analysts perceive Johnson to be the better player, and, at the very least, it is up for debate who is better, and it is close either way. To say that Johnson is not even in Vlasic’s league, however, is obviously not only completely, utterly inaccurate, but also insulting to most hockey fans, Kings fans specifically, and their intelligence.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions
They are in different leagues
Or at least completely different roles.
Vlassic is a better defensive defenseman. Johnson is a better offensive defensemen. There are plenty of situations you’d put Johnson in that you wouldn’t put Vlassic in and vice versa. The comparison is stupid to begin with.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I want
to know the terms of this deal.
LA could be taking a potentially pretty big risk here.
Dude, lemme getchur keys.
it says 2 years at 3.5
but that’s all it says
"Like I said, it’s like me giving you a high-five and chest bump after you hit for the cycle against the kid in the wheelchair." Vacafan on May 14, 2010
Not surprised either.
3.5 mil per year, no way DW was going to top that.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Aug 25, 2010 11:50 AM PDT reply actions
We’re all bitter now. We won’t be when he’s out and done with his career half-way through next season after another concussion.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Whoa
We won’t be when he’s out and done with his career half-way through next season after another concussion.
Not cool.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
My Twitter
I was always of the opinion he was too much risk until he can prove he’s healthy for a long season.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
That’s always a possibility. He best start getting worried about having to play against Douglas Murray 6 times this season…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I would pass
3.5 for 2 years is too risky on a player coming back from a concussion. I’m actually happy we didn’t sign him for that term or try to beat that.
Vancouver doesn’t want to trade Bieksa now that Salo is out and Mitchell is in LA. They need him for at least the first half of the season.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
No thanks to Bieksa.
Let’s wait a few months and get Regehr.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
3.5 per for 2 years is absurd. I was all for taking the risk, but that’s entirely too much risk, imo. Pass.
..:Fear The Fin:..
LA was always going to overpay to “make a splash.” It’s why I was worried about them being in the race to begin with.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Well…damn. I thought it was us or you guys. The Caps were my sentimental pick, because I didn’t want the Canucks to face him four times a year minimum.
If that is true, neither one of us was in at all, and term was the most important. 7 mil over 2? Thx for the memories Willie…sorry you left.
But you are dead to me now!
;-)
I’m more mad that he’s with a division rival than anything. If he wasn’t going to be with the Sharks, Vancouver or Washington wouldn’t have bothered me.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
My Twitter
Okay I think we need to stop saying we want players cause then they end up not with us. Not that I believe in jinxing of any kind of course. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Eh, San Jose never signs free agents. I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with us, because all Sharks fans are awesome and couldn’t possibly be a jinx.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly
With San Jose’s penchant for signing big-ticket FA’s, I’m kinda just glad that SJ was even in the running in the first place… but this still sucks.
Now that he's a King:
I hate Willie, he’ll have another concussion by December and be in and out of the lineup all year, we’re better off without him.
Anyone else...
Feeling the blood start to boil to a ridiculous degree for this season? I feel like I legitimately hate about 3 more teams after this summer.
It hurts......
Really thought he would’ve fit perfectly in SJ, but for 3.5 mil? I don’t know about that then……
We might as well promote William Wrenn and Taylor Doherty.
Who knows? They might be the next Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook.
Is this officially our blueline?
Boyle-Murray
Vlasic-Wallin
Huskins-Demers
Leach
(or some combination of said players)
Is it realistic that we trade for anyone going into the season?
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Ya
That is pretty much it. And to think for a second I thought this was possible:
Boyle-Vlasic
Kaberle-Mitchell
Demers-Wallin
And I thought this was possible too
Marleau-Thornton-Heatley
Kovalchuk-Pavelski-Setoguchi.
With Boyle – Volchenkov on defense.
Actually, still possible except the Volk.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Watching the Sharks will be like watching the Phoenix Suns
High scoring games that will finish 6-5 or 7-6.
by U Guys R Good on Aug 25, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure our offense is good enough to keep up in that kind of shootout…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Arent many offenses better…
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 25, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions
True…I’m not saying our offense is bad…but we’re not going to win many games if we’re giving up 4, 5, 6 goals a night…even with our good offense.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions
An offense that scored 1, 2, 2 and 2 goals in its last 4 games...
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Reminds me
Of why I like Heatley so much. He pretty much demanded that he be traded to San Jose. Its awesome to have someone who actually wants to come here and play.
In the end though, I don’t think Mitchell shunned us. There is no way DW offered a contract like that to him. He went with the security and money in the end- and I don’t blame him one bit. He’s coming off of a serious injury, you have to take the longer term and money.
I wouldn’t say he demanded to be traded to San Jose but he had a list of teams he wanted to go to and we were at the top from the beginning. I think so was LA, and Rangers, but they never offered anything good.
No way in hell Dougie had an offer for longer than a year, or anything close to 3.5M. We’re almost in Volchenkov/Martin/Hamhuis territory for someone who can be one bad hit away from retiring.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Dude, if he does take a bad hit and retires, what have we lost?? I guess we’d be forced to make a trade before the trade deadline…OH WAIT, WE’RE ALREADY FORCED TO MAKE A TRADE AT THE TRADE DEADLINE!
I don’t see how 3.5 million is too much money for defenseman of Mitchell’s caliber.
With his health history, on my books he’s not worth more than $2M/year.
Sharks will have no problem making playoffs even if we have seven Wallins on the defense.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I don’t see why his health history should affect us so much. It’s one thing if we we’re taking a big risk by giving up assets or trading Douglass Murray or someone to make room for Mitchell, but we’re not.
I’m also not worried about making the playoffs, but i hate relying on making trades at the deadline every year. Zero has talked about it a lot already, and i too would soooo prefer if we could have our team set before training camp.
With 1.5M cap space to sign two more players, we had no room to sign Mitchell without trading someone, unless he was willing to sign for league’s minimum.
Which clearly he wasn’t.
There was no “free Mitchell” for the Sharks.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Oh right, at 3.5 million i guess we’d have to move someone. We could just move huskins though. Even if Mitchell dropped out our defense would still be about the same as it is now even without Huskins though.
Boyle – Murray
Vlasic – Wallin/Demers
Wallin/Demers – Leach
Move Huskins where? To the minors? I don’t think it’s that easy. Ask Vancouver how easy it is to move people.
Murray more likely, but I’m not a fan of moving him for any signings.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Well it’s hard to move players that they want to get some sort of value out of, like Bieksa, but yeah we could send Huskins to the minors if we have to. It’d be worth it if it gets a player like Wilie Mitchell.
It’s not setting a good precedent.
Who’d want to sign here knowing DW likes to Kyle-MacLarening people and they may end up in Worcester a year later?
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Well maybe some team would take him to play on their bottom pairing for future considerations, but I don’t think it would be a big deal to send Huskins to the minors. Huskins is on a small contract with only a year left.
The bad waivings are when players get sent to the minors because management overpaid for them and they aren’t willing to live with their mistake. This isn’t that case, Huskins is just a low-paid/unimportant piece of the team with only a year left on his contract that needs to be moved to make room for an important one.
It woudn’t have anything to do with irresponsibility on the managements part imo.
Sorry if this is crazy..
but why is it we only have 1.5M left in cap space? Did I miss something?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
You didn’t, he’s wrong. We have 3.1 and a full roster.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
okay thanks, between this post and the other one claiming we’re up to the cap I was starting to question my sanity
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm fucken CRUSHED...
I’ve lost sooo much optimism for this coming season, ugggghh…
Whyyyyy did he have to pick the Kings?? If he stayed in Vancouver, or went to Washington i would understand, but the Kings?? WTF…
I would’ve easily paid 3.5 million for Willie. If he returns to his old form he’s better than Volchenkov imo, and i’m sure we would all be willing to pay well above 3.5 for him. If he got injured midseason his salary would come off the books, so who cares?
he’s better than Volchenkov
Eh – I think you way overestimate him.
Offensively they’re equal. Defensively, Volchenkov blocks more shots, hits harder, is 6 years younger and has no history of concussions, one of the worse things you can have on your resume as an athlete.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Volchenkov definitely wins in the age department but that just means Mitchell would get a shorter term contract, which he did.
History of concussions shouldn’t concern us very much since we’re not giving up any assets to acquire Mitchell, and should he have to drop out his cap would come off the books and (worst case scenario) we would be in the same position we’re in now.
As far as comparing their actual play, Mitchell has a GA/60 of 2.14, which is better than Volchenkovs 2.80. Mitchell also has a GF/60 of 2.85, which is also better than Volchenkovs 2.63.
Volchenkov blocks more shots but that just tells me that they have different defensive styles. Mitchell is known for being really good with his stick, while Volchenkov is known for using his body a lot more.
his health and concussion history is an issue
because it means he might not be playing at the same caliber he used to play at.
yes he’s practiced and he says he’s symptom free, but we won’t really know for sure until the season starts and he’s been playing for a while.
maybe he doesn’t get re-injured and still plays, just at a significantly lower level than previously. in that scenario you have him eating up a ton of cap space. it could potentially be like Huskins or Wallin for us, just with a higher cap hit.
not saying this is what will happen for LA, but that is a worry and I’m guessing that’s why most people think 7 $M over 2 years is a lot.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
That is the only valid concern, that he stays healthy but isn’t the same player that he used to be, but even if you take away all of Mitchell’s physicality, he’s still a great defenseman that would be worth 3.5 million to me. He’s a smart defenseman with good positioning who’s amazing with his stick, the big hits and physicality are just a bonus.
Hell I wanted him
I’m just trying to convince myself that we’re better off without now that we don’t have him…
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
3.5 million a year for 2 years???
No thank you. I would have done 3.5 for one season, see if he can stay healthy. But two years is a big risk at that price. Overall, I’m not particularly crushed or anything. I never built up Willie Mitchell as the defensive savior that most people around here did. Would it be nice to have him? Yes, absolutely. Am I tired of relying on trade deadline acquisitions? Indeed I am. Is this going to ruin the Sharks’ season for me? Not in any way, shape, or form.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 12:57 PM PDT reply actions
Good to see one of us has a healthy attitude about it (:
But I agree, 2 years is a lot, and I don’t know the contract structure but I would have relied on bonuses much more.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I don’t think you can put bonuses in a multi year contract…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions
How certain is this?
Not that I am holding out any hope or anything but this hasn’t really been reported on ESPN or Yahoo yet? Are they still negotiating or is it just a really strong rumor or what?
Since it’s not for 17 years, I can’t see why this deal won’t go through.
They wouldn’t announce verbal agreement unless it was almost certain he’d about to put a signature on a contract.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
I'm proud of you guys.
I didn’t expect y’all to be so level headed or mature.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
Tried jumping out the window
but the glass was too thick.
Hint.
Throw a chair through it first! Or a big rock. Or even a sledge hammer!
1. It should break the window for you.
2. The act of destroying glass might calm you down enough to not want to jump! Yay!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I got the news during Calculus. You try throwing a fit/posting a long ranting diatribe in Calculus. It doesn’t work.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Unfortunately...
it’s what we’ve come to expect.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
bring me Marc Staal!
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
by Teas on Aug 25, 2010 1:19 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha I was just thinking this. Wouldn’t that be happy? Who would you trade, Khaaz?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
lulz. Would you trade Pavs? That’s what I’m wondering. Does DW think Pavs will become a top forward? Better at his trade than Staal will be at his? What about Setoguchi?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Yeah… My sister hates Heatley, I could see her doing that. Who would you move into Heater’s space then?
Would you trade Thornton?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
You would trade Heatley? I’m disappointed in you Khaaz. Though if you say that you’d trade Marleau, I wouldn’t even consider you a Sharks fan. Not that you care what I think….
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I would consider trading Heatley.
$7.5 is pretty steep, even with his ridiculous talent level.
I would trade Setoguchi (with other pieces) in an instant for Staal, though.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Yeah Seto for Staal would be a good deal really, but they would definitely want more than just Seto and i don’t think it’d be worth it. I got a lot of faith in Seto still.
I’m very confused here. You want to trade Heatley now? To make room for Marc Staal? So you want to trade one of the best offensive players in the game to upgrade our D? Then what do we with Heaters spot? We are just creating more difficulties.
Marleau would play left wing, Seto would play right wing and Couture would take Seto’s spot. Then Torrey Mitchell could take Couture spot as 3rd line Center.
Yikes...
Any plan that involves having Mitchell anywhere but the 4th line or on another team is not a good idea for improving our team.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I BELIEVE IN MITCHELL OK? I knooooww he’s going to look MUCH better this season. Just you wait and see!
I have seen (lol that sounds so prophetic)
I was impressed. He just needs to get back into that sort of level.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I wouldn’t say that about Mitchell, but I definitely don’t trust him to take faceoffs on a regular basis. Dude needs some work in that department.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
I don’t trust him to take faceoffs at all, nor do I trust him to provide any scoring threat whatsoever. But, hell, he’s fast! And he plays ok defensively! Sigh…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I still remember this one play in the 2009 playoffs where he dumped the puck in the zone, skated to it himself, dug it out against two Ducks players, maneuvered around three Ducks players to pass it to Goc, who was in the slot and ready to shoot… only to heel the shot and hit the glass.
Ahhh, Marcel Goc. Your blogs were funny, but having both you and Grier on the same line was torture.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
See? Mitchell can pass the puck to himself
That’s like 2 in 1! I like the guy, maybe he needs some work but he’s fast. I was talking to a friend who does baseball scouting the other day, and he said the number one thing you look for is “physical tools” – how much raw athletic talent a guy has got, and I think Mitchell has a fair amount. Though, hockey’s not baseball, I grant that.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Haha, Torrey Mitchell’s SBNation scouting report:
Has excellent face-off skills and is also solid in penalty-killing situations. Skates very well and owns some playmaking skills. Can play both center and wing.
It’s compared to the rest of the centers, who all had over 55% win rates, he wasn’t doing too well.
That’s what happens when you miss an entire year and then are thrust onto one of the best faceoff teams in NHL history.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Mitchell won a spectacular 43% of draws this past season. Put that with his 2 G and 9 A, and yup, awesome player you got there!
Listen, I’d love for him to prove me wrong, since him being good would help the Sharks win. But until I see anything out of him, and he’s shown me literally nothing, I’m going to continue to be down on him as a contributing factor for our team.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, he came back from a serious injury half way through the season and he was playing limited minutes on the 3rd and 4th lines. Give him a break holy crap.
Jamie Mcginn played more games than Mitchell and had only 3 more points, is he not good enough to play on the 3rd line either?
Boottops are tough, too. My friend did that and we found ourselves jerry rigging mountain bike shin guards to help deliver the pressure of her boot more evenly around her calf. It’s insane and painful. Idk if he still has his rod in there or not, but probably.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Trading Heatley opens up a whole new slew of problems. Even now our bottom six is thin, that would make it thinner. $7.5 is steep, but he is top level talent. I think his first year in SJ was successful, and I expect more this year. Lets not forget he played with a torn groin in the playoffs. I like what he brings. Don’t trade one of our best players to upgrade the D.
Our bottom 6 is pretty solid. I mean, when you have a guy like Ben Ferriero scoring about a point per game in the AHL and you don’t even consider putting him on your starting roster cuz there’s no room for him…That’s saying something about your bottom 6 imo.
My reasoning for trading Heatley has more to do with his lack of chemistry with Thornton. His performance in the playoffs was actually impressive considering he had a torn groin imo. Maybe play heatley with Pavelski, I wonder how they’d look together with some practice.
Personally, I’m not a big fan of the HTML. It has nothing to do with how well they worked together. It’s just that Marleau is one of the fastest players in the league. He needs to be able to utilize that. Two big guys like Big Joe and Heater (who’s actually taller than Joe I think) slow Patty down.
I’d rather see someone else up there… and have a Pavs, Seto, Marleau line.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Mitchell goes out with a concussion in second period
Last week I was playing NHL 10 and I played the Kings In a franchise game (with the sharks of course). Doug Murry landed an nasty elbow on Willie in open ice. Willie goes down and is taken out of the game. Later in the 3rd period I was notified that he is out with a concussion. What are the odds?
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Aug 25, 2010 1:25 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
My bad
Canucks not Kings. I’m not really sure why he was playing in the first place…
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Aug 25, 2010 1:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Interesting to consider the next step for DW
According to Capgeek, we still have over $3.1 million in cap space, with the roster filled out except for an extra forward. The question is, does he save up all of that money, or does he now go out and add another veteran UFA to the 3rd line?
There are still some guys out there who could definitely help (more than Mayers)—Owen Nolan, certainly, or even lower-profile guys like Jeff Halpern, Clarke MacArthur (if we could get him on the cheap for a year), Tim Kennedy, Richard Park, Patrick O’Sullivan, Paul Kariya, Slava Kozlov, Kyle Wellwood.
I’d go that route because, in reality, we’ll likely have to give up a rostered forward—like Ryane Clowe—to acquire a defenseman during the season. So even if we go into the season with only like $1.5 million under the cap, we’d likely still be able to take on the salary of an incoming defenseman.
And if we get rid of someone like Clowe, we’d better have someone else around so we’re not taking too big of a hit to the 2nd/3rd lines.
um........
Damn? waited do long for bad news.
Well then, officially ad Nolan now.
"Don’t fuck around with Marleau. He’s like an incredibly awkward Jedi master." -adingoatemyname
by Pavelskinator on Aug 25, 2010 1:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
If we add Nolan we may not have room for Marc Staal though.
by Khaaz on Aug 25, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
We're not gettting Staal regardless IMHO
Sather will immediately match the offer. If anyone knows how to overpay, it’s Glenn Sather. If there’s a GM who doesn’t like to over pay, it’s DW.
Effectively, Sather gets a free, decent offer that makes the Boogard signing look even worse.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
BRO, WE JUST GOTTA TRADE MURRAY, HUSKINS, STEVE ZALEWSKI AND JAY LEACH AND HE’S AS GOOD AS OURS!
How could they say no the shear number of players there?? That’s a 4 for 1 DEAL!
Oh shit i forgot about the NTC.
You could always tell him NY has better burgers….
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I think I’m officially as irritated with the Wallin moaning this year as I was with the Huskins crying last year.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Whoa man! Whoa! I was just joking around!
He’s scored a goal on his own team though.. so he’s pretty close to Boyle-level coolness. Plus he likes hamburgers.
And to be honest, I don’t really mind having him on the team. It’s just a little too hefty a contract.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Considering we have 3.1 in free space still I don’t see that his contract has changed anything for us.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We only have that much cuz we couldn’t afford to sign UFA’s though; and Wallins contract had a lot to do with why we couldn’t afford to sign UFAs imo.
Who have we looked at that would have cost us more? Drop Huskins salary and that’s 4.8. That gets you nearly every UFA defenseman this year. It’s not like Huskins or Murray will be on this team if we get a new D-man.
Money isn’t the problem.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The man speaks the truth.
We didn’t get a top flight UFA D man for one of two reasons. One, they chose somewhere else over us (Mitchell to LA, Hamhuis to VAN, Martin to PIT…we were reportedly in on all of them…can’t force them to sign with us). Or two, DW doesn’t go after too many UFAs on the first day on principle.
Neither of these has anything to do with our cap space…which is just fine.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
What about Hamhuis, Z. Michalek, HJALMARSSON, etc.?
If we had 5+ million cap space, we could’ve afford to match/beat the offers those guys got and probably could’ve signed them.
We had far more space than that when both of those players were signed.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We also had a lot of cap space allocated to the potential signing prices of Seto, Pavelski and others.
We were all rosterbating their potential prices and there wasn’t a lot of cap space left to spend 4 or 5 million on a big UFA defenseman.
We assumed that we’d be paying Seto 3.5 or more to stay. Wilson never had that intention. We had plenty of space.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Did he tell you that? I guarantee Wilson was not about to use up all his cap space before signing Seto.
Yes, I’m sure they had no contract talks before the day they signed him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yes, and the talks we’re problem of DW trying to sign seto to a long term contract around 3 million, maybe more. Those talks obviously never worked out so they instead signed him to a crazy cheap 1 year deal as a chance for Seto to prove that he’s worth the contract he wanted.
Where are you getting this from? Were you at those contract talks? I’m just looking at the history of DW signing his forwards. They all get mid 1-2 mil deals for 1-2 years when coming off their EL contract.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
It doesn’t matter what they were talking about, the bottom line is that a contract wasn’t signed and DW wasn’t about to say, “we’re giving you 1.8 million dollars for 1 year, end of conversation” and then go and spend all his available cap space because Seto could’ve signed an offersheet of 3+ million with another team.
Also, nobody would have paid Seto more than 3, look at the UFA market this season.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
A lot of teams would offersheet Seto for 3 million in a heartbeat if Seto accepted it and they knew DW didn’t have cap space to match the offer.
If he did match the offer we’d only have about 2 million cap space right now. What top 4 defenseman could we get for 2 million? We’d have to free up a little over 2 million cap space and a roster spot on defense, of which not signing Wallin does both.
A lot of teams would offersheet
I’m going to stop you right there…a lot of teams plan on offer sheeting players? Is that why its only happened, what, 7 times ever?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
If teams knew the player would accept the offersheet and they knew the team they belonged to couldn’t afford to match the offersheet (because they just spent big money on a UFA defenseman, hyphothetically) i’m sure it would happen more often.
Both of those teams could afford to match any reasonable offers. The rangers are looking for any excuse to waive Redden.
Plus those guys would cost a lot more than 3 million and in turn would require a lot more picks as compensation.
Why do you think Seto would agree to only 3 for more than 1 year? Why would any team sign him for less than 3 or 4 years?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
This is all hypothetical, but if DW is only offering him a cheap 1 year deal as you’ve said, and Seto wants more, he can’t just assume Seto won’t accept any offersheets from other teams that he can’t afford to match whether they’re 3 million for 3 years or 4 million for 5 years.
So...
The Rangers would waive Staal, but we wouldn’t waive Huskins to keep Setoguchi? Really? That’s your argument?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The point is that DW wouldn’t want to put himself in a position where he would have to waive Huskins.
DW seems to be extremely responsible with his cap space, he doesn’t fly by the seat of his pants signing UFAs thinking, “ah whatever, i’ll get some cap space later somehow; i’m sure we’ll figure it out” He has to have everything planned 2 steps ahead.
He dumped Luko and Error for nothing last year, apparently never intending to have them on the team.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
That was something he did voluntarily that was obviously part of his plan.
DW is a GM that loves to exploit other teams/GMs when they’re weak/vulnerable, and at the same time he also makes sure that he’s never weak/vulnerable himself.
It’s Obviously part of his plan to add to his defense. He proved that when he signed Hjalmarsson. We have 7 defensive players on the roster currently, not counting potential prospects.
What part of that is going to dupe other GM’s into thinking he’s not trying to move a defensemen exactly?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well he saw that Chicago was vulnerable and saw an opportunity to sign a great player at a great price.
Signing Hammer at 3.5 million wouldn’t require many moves if any, and that is just too good a deal to pass up. (knowing what we know now, we could afford him at that price just by sending Leach to the minors)
But but but! What if somebody offersheeted Setoguchi for 3 or 4 M? We couldn’t have afforded to match him. DW would never do such a thing, so clearly we never signed Hjalmarsson to an offersheet.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
DW wouldn’t overpay for a UFA while also putting himself in a vulnerable position.
But he’s willing to make some sacrifices if he’s getting a great deal on a great player, like he did with Heatley.
He wasn’t going to get a great deal on any of the big UFA defensemen, so it likely wasn’t worth the risk to him.
You know though, if you really wanted to own me in this conversation you should just point out that DW was the one that signed Wallin to that ridiculous contract and made shit hard on himself in the first place, cuz i can’t explain that shit.
I don’t even have to bother.
You’re argument is that to acquire a piece that we need DW wouldn’t put us in a position where we couldn’t match Seto without going over.
We did exactly that when we signed Hjalmarsson. You’re argument is invalid.
You just hate the Wallin signing and are projecting that onto everything else, no matter how stupid that happens to be. You know it’s a stupid argument but you can’t stop yourself because you hate that signing. It’s the same bullshit that happened with Huskins last year.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I never argued it wasn't
I said it has no bearing on what free agents we did or didn’t sign. Other than maybe Kovulchuk.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Why didn’t they? They had plenty of opportunity. We gave them a month.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Because, DW DIDNT spend all his cap space on a top 4 UFA defenseman and he could afford to match any offers. That’s why.
I looked at our cap space on UFA day. We had 8.2 with only Seto left, at that point you can bet DW had an idea of what it was going to cost to retain him.
Roster spot doesn’t matter, we signed Hjalmarsson which meant if we got him somebody was on the way out. DW had no problem signing him before clearing the roster spot. Which means we had closer to 10M or more.
Cap space has never been the problem.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
No wya we had 8.2 million cap space with only Seto left. If tht was the case we’d have 6.4 million cap space right now.
Niitty 2M 4.4
Mayer .6 3.8
Leach .5 3.3
8 give or take. I think I had somebody else x’d off.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well there you go, Seto was not the only person left to sign. DW was not about to spend his cap space willy nilly without knowing that he can afford to fill out the rest of his lines and especially without having secured a starting goaltender.
6M on UFA day after the signing of Niitty. A defenseman has to go. Back up to 7.7 minimum. Don’t sign leach or send him to the AHL. Plenty of space.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
There are still roster spots open, and Seto is still unsigned and might require 3+ mill (whether via a signed contract or matching an offersheet)
So he has mayyybe 3.5 million dollars with open roster spots (leach unsigned also) and he still needs to do something with Huskins, what if no one wants him? Maybe he’s not willing to waive him.
If he is unwilling to waive Huskins, then WHY DID HE SIGN HJALMARSSON?!?!?!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Seto's been signed.
1 year, 1.8 mill.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't on July 1st
Wasn’t when Hjalmarsson was signed…. or wasn’t signed. DW wouldn’t never put himself in that position after all.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I really need to pay attention more.
All of these hypotheticals are confusing the heck out of me.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Um, are you even reading what anyone types?
I added in Hamhuis. He turned down larger offers to play for VAN because that’s where he’s from.
I’m guessing DW didn’t want Michalek…he was never rumored to be interested in him, at all.
And Hjalmarsson did pick us, but Chicago matched. We weren’t just going to blindly offer more to try to lure him away as an RFA. That’s a ridiculous example to even bring up.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree about Hjalmarsson
The offer was completely fair, not an overpayment especially if you assume that he will continue to develop, and he chose to sign with us. Not Chicago, us. But because of the way the RFA signing system works, Chicago could decided to match that and keep Hjalmarsson without him having any say.
That’s another great thing about the whole offer sheet thing (besides forcing Chicago to make more moves quicker than they want) – we got a stud young free agent defensemen to sign with us. The “not wanting to play in San Jose” stigma is fading, what with Hjalmarsson, Malhotra, and Heatley all choosing to play here (and Boyle, to a lesser, “threatened to be waived and picked up by the Thrashers,” extent).
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Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Maybe another 500k would’ve been a enough to change Chicago’s minds. 4 mill might seem like a lot for Hjammer now, but a year or two from now that would’ve been a fine deal. It’s not like cap space is a very big concern for us now anyways, overpaying Hjammer a bit this year wouldn’t have mattered.
Well we didn’t drop huskisn did we?? Obviously if we drop Huskins we would’ve had a lot more cap space but apparently we couldn’t find anywhere to move him.
Worst case? I point you to Kyle McLaren.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Of course, McLaren hasn’t exactly played in the NHL since then, despite being a free agent last year. So waiving Huskins or Wallin would be a different situation, as both are still relatively durable and are NHL-caliber defensemen.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Any other team in the NHL would be free to take them.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
They’d still have to pick up their salary, though, and there probably aren’t a lot of teams who are willing, as teams that want to spend are near the cap, and teams with cap space don’t want to spend.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
A couple teams need to get to the floor still.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Islanders
… they could’ve done so much this summer. Still, Snow is a silent genius I guess. Maybe he’ll figure something out.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
It doesn’t matter. We’re not going to carry a roster of 9 defensemen. 1 of them is gone, and it’s not Demers. Cheapest one is Huskins. We have the space, somebody would be gone one way or another.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
1 of them could’ve been Wallin, which would’ve given us a ton more cap space to work with. I can’t believe i have to debate why the Wallin signing was a bad idea.
So, if we didn’t have Wallin… Our defense would be:
Boyle
Vlassic
Murray
Huskins
Demers
Leach
And we’d have 5.6 in space. Now, to sign who?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I’m talking about giving up Wallin NOW, i’m talking about if we had never signed him before July 1st. We would’ve had 1 more spot on defense, and 2.5 million more cap space to sign a big UFA defenseman.
Obviously all the good defenseman are signed already so extra cap space isn’t going to do much for us.
We had plenty of cap space to sign anyone we wanted at the time. They just didn’t want to come here. Are you advocating that the Sharks should have offered 10 million a year to try and lure Hamhuis or Martin?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
I think $6 would’ve been much more realistic. Not sure how much we offered, and too lazy to check… but I’m sure that it’s the offer and not the team that dissuades potential FAs.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Not necessarily. San Jose very easily could have offered 4.5 or 5 a year to either Hamhuis or Martin, and they just chose to go elsewhere. Are you advocating overpaying on the UFA market? Because when given fair market contract offers (i assume), players just aren’t choosing to come to San Jose.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s not that we COULD have offered 4.5 or 5/yr for Hamhuis/Martin/Volchekov. It’s that we didn’t.
I think I agree with your POV (sort of). Overpaying is what’s luring FAs away. It has nothing to do with the team. I’m sure if DW was just throwing money around, he could’ve signed some big names (like D-men). It’s just that he’s not going to do that.. and as a result players chase better money.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Which has no bearing on Wallin or his 2.5M contract.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yes, because DW always just “throws money around.”
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
We don’t know if we did or not. Martin signed for 5M a year in PIT…we were rumored to be in on him…even if we offered him 5, he’d played out East his whole career…why would he come out here? And anything more than 5 is overpayment.
Hamhuis, it was reported, turned down bigger contract offers than what he signed for because he wanted to play in VAN. The Sharks could have been one of those teams.
DW doesn’t overpay free agents, and San Jose just doesn’t attract UFAs when the money is equal. It’s very simply that.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I can’t help but wonder if the people upset over Wallins contract (well, upset enough to remind us over and over and over and over and over again) would like paying Campbell 7M a year to play for us, because that’s the kind of overpayment it’s going to require to get some of these players here apparently.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Pretty much.
If an elite D man wanted to sign here for the 4.5 or 5 million they got elsewhere, DW would have made it happen. Hockey on the West Coast just has issues getting talent to sign out here. It’s why we have to trade all the time…not that hard to understand I didn’t think.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Why are you sure that’s the case?
Martin is on an East team, perhaps he hates the travel. He also gets to play with Crosby and Malkin there.
Hamhuis is from Vancouver. Why would he pick SJ over them unless we massively overpay?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah those are pretty good points actually.
Well, I guess I was talking on a more general level. In the past, we’ve had trouble getting big FAs to sign here. In general, I would like to think that it has more to do with the money than the team itself. There are good reasons for players to sign elsewhere, of course. But consistently to do so? I have my doubts.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
We had 10 million cap space, with potential a potential 7 – 9 million allocated to signing Pavelski and Seto. We had a lot of other roster spots we needed to fill too.
We had that allocated to those two. DW never had that allocated to those two. They knew the range they were working with long long ago.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
And Pavelski signed before July 1st, we still had 10M in space, plus another 10% of the cap we could have gone over.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Oh right; but the bottom line is that, we didn’t have 4.5+ million dollars available (after taking into account how much it would cost to fill our forward spots) with an open spot on defense.
DW isn’t the type to pay huge money for a UFA before figuring out how he can afford to fill out the rest of his roster spots, or who to move on defense to make room for the big new UFA defenseman.
We have what, 3.1 million? Even if it was July 1st right now, that’s not enough money to sign any of the big names we wanted, and thats after Seto signed for cheap; DW was trying to sign Seto at 3 million for 3 or 4 years i’m sure.
You’re sure? Because he did that with Clowe… and Pavelski… oh wait, he has a track record of 1-2 year cheap deals until a player proves himself.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Whatever the case, the deal wasn’t done then so he couldn’t just spend all his cap space assuming Seto would sign at almost the cap hit he had on his entry contract.
What if Seto got offersheeted for 3+ million? DW would then be forced to make some moves he didn’t want to make to match the offer.
Except he had plenty of room and we’d have to make those moves anyway if we sign any of those defensemen. He obviously wants to sign one, so that’s been the damn plan all along. He’s not going to do it until he gets somebody to fill the space.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We have 3.1 and 7 NHL capable defensemen on the roster. 1 of those are going if we get another d-man. Sharks management isn’t going to pay them 1.7+ to ride the pine in the NHL. That looks like 4.8 to me. I don’t expect he’d care if we got nothing for Huskins if he got the defensemen we wanted for nothing. I’d trade Huskins for any of those guys, I’m fairly certain DW would too. Beyond that Murray has value and getting a trade partner for a guy who played top 2 minutes on the 2nd best regular season team in the NHL last year wouldn’t be difficult.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well talk to me when we move one of our defenseman and then have the 4.5ish million cap space.
Oh wait, you know what would’ve given us the extra cap space needed while also opening up a spot on defense? NOT signing Niclas Wallin to a 2.5 million dollar contract.
Why would he move anybody until he has somebody for that spot?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Because July freakin 1st is coming and there are going to be plenty of defenseman on the market that are much better than Wallin that he could sign with the extra 2.5 million cap space.
Great, so we’d have 5.6 in space with nobody to sign and Leach as our 6th d-man… awesome. I like this plan.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Was it wrong of me to laugh at that?
I just couldn’t help it.
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I’ve already said, getting rid of Wallin now wouldn’t help us at all, but never having signed him before July 1st would’ve given us a lot more freedom in signing another defenseman.
And when they didn’t sign with us? Then what? We’ve gone over the players that were signed. None of them wanted to come to SJ, cap space wasn’t the probelm.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I don’t see how, with a ton of cap space and an open roster spot on defense, we wouldn’t be able to find a defenseman better than Wallin.
We had the cap space…the roster spot wasn’t an issue. And if DW wanted to pay 6 million a year for the next 6 years, he could have convinced someone to come West. The issue is that DW isn’t going to be an idiot and overpay, and the players we wanted preferred to go elsewhere on their market value contract.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions
According to rumors, 2 of them did yeah.
Offer Volchenkov 4.5 million for 5 or 6 years and maybe he’s a Shark.
Either way, having more cap space and an open roster spot on defense would only make it easier for us to sign a top 4 defenseman, and Wallin is easily replaceable.
More than 8 mil in roster space? To do what with exactly?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Sign Volchenkov for 4.5 million, resign Seto at whatever price he would potentially cost (it was unknown at the time) and fill out the rest of our roster spots.
Maybe sign John Madden, Lee Stempniak, or someone else like that with the extra cap space.
Volchenkov signed for 6 years at 4.5 million in NJ. He had shown no desire to play on the West coast (LA was interested and offered him something similar, but he wanted to stay back East), and DW has never signed players to that long a contract.
How, exactly, were we going to get him here for 4.5 million?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions
His contract is 4.25 million at 6 years. 4.5 million would’ve been a bigger money offer to play for a better team. Why would he say no?
Same reason he said no to LA. Doesn’t want to play int he west. Doesn’t feel like flying 50000 miles during the year.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I didn’t hear anything about that, that was the rumor about Paul Martin. That’s all just rumor anyways.
You’re assuming that there is no reason he wouldn’t sign for a moderate increase in pay to play for us. It’s strange because over the years plenty of players have found a reason not to.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
There have also been plenty of players that have really wanted to play for us and have even taken pay cuts to do so.
There has been literally one player who took a pay cut to play for us…Manny. And he then left for greener pastures. This argument has no weight. San Jose has notoriously not attracted top named FAs.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, Vancouver did offer him Wallin money to go. That’s pretty hard to turn down for a third liner.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Yeah, I’m not upset at him for going, just pointing out we’ve only had one person ever come here in their prime who wanted to be in San Jose…and he only stayed on year. Not exactly the “plenty of players” being claimed.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm done
Final question. If we didn’t sign Wallin and you had that cap space. Do you sign Campbell to 7M for 7 years?
That’s what you’re advocating we do.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Hey ED, it’s like banging your head against the wall while someone runs around the house banging on a metal pot, isn’t it?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions
lol that has nothing to do with anything wtf.
If Mitchell were 100% healthy, would we even be able able to afford him at a fair price of 4 million?
We’d have to free up some cap space and a spot on the roster. Once again – not signing Wallin would achieve both of those things. I don’t see why this is so complicated.
Gentlemen, you’re just yelling now.
Khaaz, what makes you think that we’d definitely land a better d-man than Wallin? By overpaying? What if we failed at that, too?
I’m not crazy about Wallin’s contract, either, but he’s an experienced, tough defenseman that can eat some minutes.
It’s not hard to find a better D man than Wallin, and we already overpaid for him so why not overpay?
Point me to a current UFA better than Wallin.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Once again, losing Wallin doesn’t help us at all now, i’m talking about before July 1st.
Before July 1st there were plenty of Defensemen as good or better than Wallin.
But he’s easy to replace? I mean, if he’s easy to replace I should be able to do it any time. Easy right?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Obviously it’s more difficult at the end of the offseason when every player has already been signed.
Still though, we could have Joslin or someone take his spot during the regular season and then pick someone up at the trade deadline. Replacing Wallin at the trade deadline is a hell of a lot easier than it is to replace Rob Blake at the trade deadline.
We don’t need anybody else to make the playoffs.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
It’s the offseason, we can go over the cap until the season starts. If DW had a chance to sign one of these defensemen, he would have, and dealt with it later. You don’t dump assets away BEFORE you have a player you want under contract…what if he doesn’t sign with you, and you gave up Huskins (who is solid in the 3rd pairing, and really not that expensive) for nothing?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I was looking up some stats comparing Mitchell and Wallin
Wallin’s shot accuracy is .001 better… so hell yes. We got the better end of the deal.
And Evil… imagine if we’d signed him for even $2M? We’d have $3.6M to spend on people who don’t want to sign here.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I think it’s just the whole concept of paying him $2.5M when we have a finite amount of money we can deal out to players that’s rubbing people the wrong way. I mean, if he was signed for $1M, people would like him a lot better, even though he’s the same player.
Just like we all liked Malhotra last year, and that was probably because he took a huge paycut to play. Him putting up the same stats for what he’s getting from Vancouver? Uhh, no thanks.
I like to call it the Aaron Rowand/Chris Drury syndrome: a guy that’s around average or a little above who would be tolerated/well-liked under normal circumstances, but is disliked because of his larger-than-it-should-be contract.
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Exactly how I feel. I guess Heatley has a similar (but much milder) effect. Though $7.5M is appropriate for a guy like Heater. $2.5M for Wallin…? Maybe he just didn’t have enough time to settle in yet, but I don’t know.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Yeah, I’m not entirely happy with Heater’s contract, but guys like Heatley are generally overpaid, simply because they can consistently be relied upon as a top-tier offensive force, and there aren’t many of those. Supply and demand.
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I’ll care more when we’re up against the cap for Wallin. This is the same BS we went through last year with Huskins. At least last year we were against the cap, we actually have the space and a full roster right now. Bitching about Wallin is just being angsty right now.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Though I’d rather have Wallin over Huskins. That’s just me.. but then again I don’t get to watch enough Sharks hockey, so I have no idea how good/bad Huskins is.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Wallin is better than Huskins. Huskins isn’t horrible for a 6-7 guy. Actually played fairly well with Demers. Everybody just has their panties in a bunch because we’re paying him an outrageous fee of 1.7M…
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I disliked the contract last summer, but I’m no longer as torn up about it since a) there’s only one year left and b) he did improve quite a bit through the year.
And while I was initially all RAGE about the Wallin contract, well, we don’t know how well he’s going to do next year. For all we know, he’ll have a better GAON/60 against a higher QUALCOMP than Willie Mitchell. And plus, it’ll be for just one year with him actually participating in training camp and not injured.
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I pretend that Wallin is making 1.8M and Seto is making 2.5M and everything is okay.
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
The Setoguchi deal was the steal of the summer, IMO. Oh, he’s going to get PAID next year, but for this year it’s amazing.
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That is an excellent way of looking at this.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
by sharks in oc on Aug 25, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions
let’s just send him this video and he’ll be totally game for it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3bLieLA4cw
But only if he has the volume turned up
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I like the Wizard of Oz.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Aug 25, 2010 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Singin’ in the Rain.
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You know what the worst part is...
this sort of news isn’t even surprising. Why FA’s don’t like coming to SJ I don’t understand. Could be because DW doesn’t overpay (unless your name is Huskins or Wallin).
Obviously, it seems like he made a good decision. LA is going to be sick nasty for a while now, so the second best team in the Pacific Division is all but set for the next few seasons.
No worries though.. this means we definitely have space for Owen Nolan! And we’ll just get him to play D occasionally. He’ll just call his blocked shots.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Sucks, but I dont blame Willie...
The guy just came off a huge career-threatening injury with a very high chance of re-injury. He pretty had to go for the money-grab. One more concussion and he NEVER gets that kind of contract size again.
Just speculation but
what about looking into a trade for a promising young player like Luke Schenn? There is really no defenseman left on the free agent market that fits our needs. But picking up Schenn without it costing us too much would be perfect. He’s only 20 years old and already he’s turning into an elite shutdown defenseman. And his contract ends in restricted free agency.
But picking up Schenn without it costing us too much would be perfect.
Winning the lottery would be perfect.
Controlling objects with my mind would be perfect.
Wallin winning the Norris would be perfect.
Just so that we’re clear on the possibility of this.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Winning the lottery would be perfect.
Am I the only one who thought “draft lottery”…?
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I’m going to be grumpy for a while thanks to the Mitchell signing. It’s exacerbated by arm chair GMs thinking getting another teams very young talent cheaply is at all possible, and by the implication that somehow losing Rob Blake and Nabokov suddenly makes us go from 2nd place in the NHL to a lottery team in the regular season.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
That’s what we want them to think ;)
Yeah but seriously I think ppl enjoy making fun of the Sharks. I’m actually pretty cool with signing Nitty (considering his numbers with the crappy teams he’s been with). The lack of the addition of a true defensive stud does bother me, but FAs have been flocking to only certain teams it seems. So they’ve stock piled talent, but a bunch of other teams have lost talent.
We’ve lost at goalie, but have a replacement. We’ve lost Rob Blake.. that’s who we need to replace (and it’s a tough spot to fill). We need some secondary scoring.
And we need a badass… we’ll get Nolan.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
+1
Mitchell would have been a good risk for $2 million/per, but this is exactly like losing Manny to the Nucks: too much dough for the expected contributions.
And the armchair GMs here who are panicking also never think our defensive prospects will step-up. Demers and Joslin could, with playing time, take a leap or two forward. If they don’t, then we look toward the trade market for defensive help.
Mitchell would have been a good risk for $2 million/per, but this is exactly like losing Manny to the Nucks: too much dough for the expected contributions.
IIRC, I read a quote from DW somewhere (I think it was a radio interview), where when he heard Vancouver’s offer to Malhotra, he said he offered to drive Malhotra to the airport himself, since he knew he wasn’t going to come close to matching it and thought Malhotra should take the deal to set himself up for life.
Things like that are why I think DW is awesome, and truly cares about the players whether or not they actually play for the Sharks.
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Is Derek Joslin considered a lost cause?
Because he would seem to be a cheap alternative to Wallin/Huskins, assuming he’s not somehow damaged goods.
It just seems that he’s gotten lost behind Demers.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
Not a lost cause at all. Just for a team that is expected to compete for a cup this year, counting on Joslin may not be the way to go.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
by sharks in oc on Aug 25, 2010 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Guess we don’t have to worry bout Plank losing his mind anymore tho … :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
In regard to paying for a big UFA dman if we didn't have Wallin and Huskins
There’s one thing the naysayers are missing: the fact that all the big UFA dman signed for 4-6 years. The Sharks need the cap space that the expiring Wallin and Huskins contracts will bring to re-sign Setoguchi, McGinn, and Greiss. In another year, Couture will also need a new contract. Barring a sudden massive revival in economic fortunes, the cap isn’t going to go up that much so they need most of the space from these “bad contracts” to pay for future raises. But in two years, I think it’s safe to say that Demers and other prospects should start challenging for top 4 spots with much cheaper contracts. Otherwise, you’d be wondering what happened to the Sharks forward depth in a year or two as top 6 guys like Clowe, or a Setoguchi that can’t be paid are traded away.
I save my freaking out for Twitter.
But the question remains…if we go in as things are now, our defensive capability is essentially a downgrade from last year, as we still have not augmented the loss in UFA D and the change in Goal (as optimistic and hopeful as I am about Nitty, Nabby was the rock for Regular Season).
Are we strong? Sure. But The Canucks are not looking like wimps, even without Mitchell. I’m still thinking they’re the main adversary in our conference this year.
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Meh Im glad we dident pay that much for him. We woulden't have won the cup with him anyways IMO
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The Sharks won’t win the Cup this year, period. You guys forget that even if we got a bonafide #1 defenseman for free in free agency, this is still a team that only scored 7 goals in 4 games against the Blackhawks. The other teams that faced Chicago in the playoffs, Nashville, Vancouver, and Philadelphia, all averaged more goals per game than the Sharks did against the Blackhawks, and they all took their series to more games than the Sharks did. The Sharks still lack the skill up front to score in playoff hockey, so it wouldn’t have mattered if they’d gotten Mitchell or not. They can’t score. They couldn’t score the season before against Anaheim. They couldn’t score the year before that against Dallas or even against Calgary when they won. They couldn’t score against Detroit the year before. That’s the whole problem. They have so much money tied up in their top 6 forward group, which would be fine if they produced, but they don’t.
Past performance doesn’t guarantee future results.
We lost because we lost. All teams except one lose, ultimately. You need to be good, and lucky, at the same time. shrug
That’s a convenient stance to take for a Sharks team. Just because we couldn’t score the last four years with the same core players, doesn’t mean they won’t score this year. And we lost because we were unlucky. You should be a GM. That’s a great plan for building a team. “Okay, boys, I want you guys to go out and do something you’ve proved time and time again you can’t, and I want you to be lucky. Bring me the cup!”
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Heater was injured and the only series we dident score in was the Hawk series. Nobody cried about the scoring VS the Wings....cuz we won
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The only reason we scored against the Wings was because we were gifted powerplays on terrible calls. We got multiple 5 on 3’s. Franzen, Kronwall, and eveyrone else on their team was playing with an injury. Howard was the one goalie to play terribly against the Sharks. We couldn’t score against the Avs until half their team got injured halfway through the series. Heatley got injured in round 1 i believe, and he’d only scored a few goals in his previous 30 regular season games, while healthy. And those aren’t even postseason games. Heatley is the most capable of the big three but he’s being used incorrectly by Mclellan which neutralizes his talent as well.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Who cares how we scored. Bottom line we did which means I just kicked your theory's ass. You gonna feel dirty if we win the cup cuz we scored PP goals on 5 on 3s?
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No, sigh, I said the Sharks have trouble scoring in the playoffs, overall. You said they didn’t have trouble scoring in the Detroit series. You neglect to mention the fact that the Sharks actually got ouscored in that series, but that’s irrelevant. They scored in one series, but failed to in the other … 8? Therefore, overall, they’ve had trouble scoring in the playoffs. Therefore what I said was correct, and what you said is incorrect. i don’t know why you have to be immature about it. “I kicked your theory in the ass.”
Go check the stats over the past four seasons dude. Goals scored per playoff game by the Sharks, see where it ranks compared to Detroit, Chicago, Washington (despite their poor showing last season), Pittsburgh, Philadelphia. Compare them to any successful playoff team and you will learn how incorrect you are.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions
Didn’t really have trouble scoring against Colorado on the whole either. I mean, we had 6 game winning goals in that series after all.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Seriously. When you only need four to win a series, and you score six, that’s just overachieving.
Also, to Buttercrunch: yes, the Sharks got out-scored in the Detroit series. But that can be explained by one ridiculously lopsided game that ultimately had no effect on the outcome. Sharks won four games, Detroit only won one. If you win games, you win the series. Goal total for the games doesn’t mean jack.
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Wait, hold up...
If you win more games than the other team in a series you win the series???? Are you sure?
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
OMG. This changes EVERYTHING.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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I KNOW
When I discovered that, my mind was blown.
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I can’t grasp this concept, I dont understand hockey because i had a typo…Can one of you explain this to me?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Can't be
I’ve been informed by a very reliable source that what you do is look at players on paper and weigh their strengths and weaknesses. Add up the numbers, subtract 50 points for players on the Sharks cause they’re LOL CHOKERZ and you have your winner.
The only technicality is if there are 5 on 3’s handed out.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
STOP READING EKLUND'S BLOG!
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*Q
I love that he has a new rating for bullshit so bad that e1-e5 doesn’t even cover it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Wait, he has a NEW rating?
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!
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Yup
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=29834
(*Q) This is a new symbol to hockeybuzz and represents the official sign for “THE EKLUND RUMOR QUALIFIER” The Eklund Rumor Qualifier should remain as a given for ALL rumours, but I will attach it to certain rumors where I know people will think I have lost mind.
(*Q) = I am not saying the WILL happen, only that this rumor is out there and I am passing it along to you.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Not going to the site so he doesn’t get increased ad revenue for my traffic, but wow. Isn’t the Q implied whenever he does e1 or whatever?
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I'm not gonna lie to you all, I thought you won on aggregate.
I really want to shout this fantastic news from the mountain tops and tell all my friends.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Niemi had much better numbers against the Sharks than he did against any of those teams.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Every goalie, every single goalie, has better numbers against the sharks than against other teams. I think that speaks to the sharks problematic offense, not the goalies.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Ditto. WTF FTW.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Lol. Turco, Anderson, Hiller, Niemi, Osgood… Just because you don’t remember these things doesn’t mean I have to spoon feed you the statistics. i don’t know all the statistics off the top of my head. i just know they all got 40 saves a night because the Sharks shot the puck from everywhere, got a large quantity of bad opportunities and no good ones, and at the end of the day when the goalie has 40 saves the mindless hockey analysts on TV, and the mindless fans, all want to blame it on a “spectacular” goaltending performance. It’s not a coincidence Hiller had such a great save % against the Sharks but was average against the Wings. The Wings know how to score, and create high quality scoring opportunities, in the playoffs, and the Sharks do not. Hockey isn’t deterministic and nothing is set in stone 100%, but that doesn’t mean there is nothing we can learn from the past. If you want to block out what happened, you’re doing your team wrong. If Doug Wilson has that same stance, then it’s an even bigger problem. Either you know everything to begin with,and you build a championship team right away, which is ideal, and not as difficult as Doug Wilson is making it look, or you learn from the past and figure it out over time. If you lack the ability to do the first, and refuse to do the second, well, then you’re going to end up something like the Sharks and Doug Wilson.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions
So...
you basically disagree with the entire sharks philosophy then? Why are you a sharks fan if we do it all wrong?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m a fan because it’s my home team. i’m not a fan of the philosophy. I hope Doug Wilson will lose his job someday and then the team might have a fighting chance. I’m just loyal I guess.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
again...so...
making it to the conference finals was a fluke then? Doing it twice? What if they repeat or god forbid win the cup with this horrible GM?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Because it makes sense for one of the shrewdest GMs in the league to get fired.
Right.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
How is not making the finals once in 7 years even after being gifted players like Thornton, Boyle, and Heatley due to very advantages circumstances that most GM’s dont get blessed with make you a shrewd GM? Wallin signing. Huskins signing. Trading Brad Boyes. Passing on Getzlaf and Perry in the 03 draft, and then refusing to trade lesser prospects he did pick for Chris Pronger, only to later watch as Perry, Getzlaf, and Pronger, all players he could have gotten, led Anaheim to a Cup, while the Sharks watched from their tvs. Some mistakes are so big they cost you a cup, and Doug Wilson has cost us plenty of cups.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Actually...
they tried to get pronger. He refused to play here. Hence the hate for him. You clearly do NOT know as much as you think about well…anything
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Fire the GM for signings of $2.5M and $1.7M
Wow.
The Pronger deal has already been mentioned.
Also, I’d love to hear how Doug Wilson has cost us Cups. That’s a bold statement.
Was he on the ice for any of our playoff losses? Did he remove critical players?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Gifted?
Do you actually believe that DW had no place in trade negotiations for the Thornton, Boyle, and Heatley trades? Yes, every one of those trades had the other GM handcuffed, but give DW credit for taking advantage of those situations to improve his own team while giving up relatively little.
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Boyes has tailed off immenseley in the past few years.
Sharks were on not only Pronger, but Niedermayer as well. He’s made a fantastic trade for a lot of his bad trades (see Thornton, Joe, Boyle, Dan, and Heatley, Dany for reference.) as well as finding fantastic value in the later rounds of the draft (see Pavelski, Joe and Demers, Jason.). He may not have won the Cup, but each year he puts this team in great position to win it all.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, man. You’re putting a lot of words in my mouth about what I supposedly think, but you’re basically advocating blowing up the roster because we’ve proved to the world that we suck.
The Wings don’t fuck with their core players, and they use that to build on their team success. They’re better at that than the Sharks, sure. They’re better at it than anyone. And even they don’t win every year. It’s not like it’s easy to create an elite team.
The Wings don’t mess with their core players because their core players deliver in the playoffs, and even if they didn’t. the Wings have enough depth that someone else usually delivers. The Wings don’t have AHL grinders on their third line. They have Jiri Hudler, a highly skilled Euro player, a highlight reel player, who will be good for around 60 pounds this season. They have Modano, who can still fly, who will likely be good for around 50, and they have Cleary who usually hits 20 goals, and who doesn’t do anything amazingly, but who does every well. He can skate, protect the puck along the boards, pass, shoot. They have three scorers on their third line, in other words, whereas the Sharks have three people who vomit whenever they get close to the net because they know scoring goes against everything in their DNA.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Suppose you’re right, and all the Sharks players are doomed to never score in the playoffs. Where do we get all these playoff performers? The Wings sure aren’t going to give them up.
You advocated dealing Marleau to the Oilers for a bunch of guys. How do you know that Hemsky will score at a greater clip than Marleau? How do you know that Wellwood is going to deliver?
The Wings don’t mess with their core players because their core players deliver in the playoffs
So, when the Red Wings were constant playoff losers back in the early 1990s, and even lost a series to a Sharks team in the playoffs that set records for losing the year before, would you have advocated for that team to be blown up?
You’re basically saying that since the players on the Sharks have never won a Cup, they will never win a Cup. I’m sorry, but that’s silly.
Also, our third line is shaping up to be McGinn-Couture-AHL stud/Nolan. No, they’re not as experienced (i.e. old) as Hudler, Modano, and Cleary, but McGinn and Couture can only go up. I fully expect Couture to be a force; hell, he’s probably a second line player on many teams, but with our top 6 so stacked, he’s relegated to the third. And then McGinn doesn’t have to go to Australia and back three times this season, so that helps too.
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Benn Ferreiro is supposed to make the team this year
He and Couture lit up the AHL, and Ferreiro did decent in his stints up with the big club.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
No thats not what im saying. Im saying because fundamentally Thornton and Marleau are not as good of players as those who excel in the playoffs (Ovechkin, Backstrom, Franzen, Malkin, Crosby, the Sedins, and so on), that they won’t win because they are lacking.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Did you just cite Ovechkin and the Sedins as playoff performers?
Please to be reminding us how effective the Sedins, Ovechkin and Backstrom have been in the playoffs?
Also, remind me, where was Evgeni Malkin this post-season?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Oh geez
Well, this image is a little dated, but I think it still proves my point:
Also, if you’re saying that Thornton and Marleau suck in the playoffs, and at the same time hold up Ovechkin and Backstrom as the ultimate playoff performers, that’s hypocrisy in a nutshell. Wow.
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by mymclife on Aug 25, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I was looking for that but couldnt find it for what i said! TY!!!!
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I will never understand why you guys insist on trying to reason with those who refuse to see facts … :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
The alternative is working
Which isn’t really much of an alternative…
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Than Celot!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
A lot of the people you've named have also been called "chokers".
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Ovechkin and Backstrom
Those guys would never let a Presidents trophy winning team get ousted in the first round…
It’s not like they’ve only ever won 1 playoff series, despite finishing in the top 3 of the east for 3 years running.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
To be fair, the Caps do play in the Southeast…
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
So?
I don’t see how that excuses losing to the Canadiens, who only made the playoffs because New York lost to the Flyers in the final game of the regular season.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I just meant for the whole finish in the top 3 of the east thing, since division winners automatically finish in the top 3.
But that doesn’t excuse them for losing to the Canadiens (IIRC, though, they got in because they lost in the SO to the Leafs – they were guaranteed a playoff spot no matter what happened in the Rangers-Flyers game).
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
If the Rangers would have won in a shootout both the Rangers and Flyers would have been in.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Oh, seriously? Well then, I guess I can repeat what I said earlier this thread: LOL JOKINEN.
Also, my bad.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Oh definitely agree. Sharks need to get rid of their core.
Because getting a gritty playoff preforming core is easy to acquire. Really easy.
You should be GM.
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
If I may quote myself for a moment...
i think teh casp wuld trad oveckhin adn semen.
to casp:
203-204 divisin baner
thorton
to shaks:
oveckin
semen
lol cause thorton is a chocker.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Aug 25, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
HAHAHAHHAHAHA!
+1
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
If there is no citation, it cannot be true.
Rule 1 of wikipedia.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Now hold on a second there Buttercup...
While we did not win that series, it was ANYTHING but a choke. Most of the games were within 1 point of each other, and had Heater not pulled his peter-muscle, things would have been much different.
We need D. And we need offensive scoring depth. That translates to two players that are good at what they do that WANT to play as Sharks, not indentured servants whose loyalty we try to buy by putting undue stress on our cap ceiling.
Yes, CHI had two of the best D in the cup run last year. But the whole is a sum of it’s parts. We just have to plug up one or two holes now.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Hey man finally an intelligent post. I couldn’t agree more. We need more scoring, and better defense. The problem is when you’re paying the top 6 so much, you run out of cap room to achieve that. It’s still possible. Kyle Wellwood is a skilled 2nd line player who got a bad shake of things in Vancouver, and he’s available for minimum salary. Alex Tanguay was gotten for 1.7 million, which would have been a great pickup for the Sharks. Mike Comrie is a skilled warrior who would help this team, and who is available for extremely cheap as well. It’s possible to turn this team into a true cup winning team even with the small amount of cap space that remains, but you have to be skilled and intelligent at building a team to do it, and if Doug hasn’t jumped all over these huge opportunities already I don’t think he’s planning on it. He’d rather play Cam Macintyre on the third line because he is a “hockey rat” who will score 5 goals than play Kyle Wellwood, who’s just a normal person, not a rodent, but who will score 20 goals and who is a great passer. That’s not smart.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Wellwood got a bad rap in Vancouver for being a flake, after he got a bad rap in Toronto for being a flake… maybe he’s actually a flake.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Also: fat.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
You’re making a HUGE flaw in thinking that these players will play here for those prices. You don’t know what impacted their decisions anywhere. Getting players is not simply being the first to offer a reasonable price.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Was the word HUGE a reference to Kyle Wellwood there?
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Again, which alternate world is it that Cam Macintyre has been playing on our third-line as a regular roster player? None of the rosterbation lists have him in that role here.
And does DW overpay for skill over playoff warriorhood, or does he love rink rats that can’t score? You can’t have it both ways.
I'm not disagreeing with your thoughts on cap burn (in a general sense)
In fact, I did a tweet on that subject less than 2 hours ago, where I said “any team that spends more than 10% of their cap on a player should put that player under severe scrutiny and review each year.”
Now, that said the problem we seem to have is despite solid performance since the lockout, it’s hard to sign people here. No idea why. I moved here from Boston, and I’d do it again, but, to each his own.There is no point in bribing talent. The just won’t leave it all on the ice. And one thing you can say about HTML— they left it all out there. The players that like the team and the fans are the ones that will put it all out there. I like the line-up we’re building now. And I like the fact that we’re not F-ing with the CBA rules to get it. NHL took to long to put the hammer on that one, IMO.
On the plus side, I picked up my pre-season tickets for the Canucks game on the 29th. I suspect that will be the harbinger for the season’s chances, ad VAN has done an exceptional job at keeping it strong this off-season.
IMO.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
No heart, no grit.
Sharks are just a bunch of chokers blah blah blah.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not sure if you watched the playoffs, or if ur just rattling off numbers, but the Hawks weren’t exactly a consistent team.
They seemed to adjust their level of play to one only slightly better than that of their opponents. It was the one thing that made me realize I wouldn’t want a Sharks team “similar to this Hawks team, even if we win a Cup then destroy the roster”. Sure, we couldn’t score against them, and yes that is a problem. But how about you look at it from the other end of the spectrum?
What if we improved our defense? It really hasn’t been stellar (see Chicago or Vancouver) for quite some time. Chicago was able to shut teams down defensively, and then could use their offense effectively. If our defense was stronger, we would have to rely less on goals purely to win games. I know that sounds stupid, but effectively we don’t need to rely on the offense to bail out the defense. A stronger defense would allow for less opportunities for the opponents and, in turn, more opportunities for our offense. Result? More goals.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Scoring
So now we have an offense that’s supposed to be a strength, but that’s really a weakness in the playoffs. We have a defense that’s a weakness, period. We have a goalie tandem that’s a weakness. Three categories, all weaknesses in the playoffs. This team needs to rebuild around other players with different skillsets.
So I guess you’re saying we’re a lottery pick this year?
[You’re serious about blowing up this team? A Conference finalist? What if nobody wants to trade with us? What if we end up sucking more after trying to retool?]
Shh.. don’t point out to him that tandem goalies have won every year since the lockout.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Instead of playing AHL players like Cam Macintyre, Jed Ortmeyer, Brad Staubitz, whoever else, there.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Orts was far from an AHL player for us last year.
He made big contributions on the PK and even popped in a few goals when he was healthy.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Evilducks, I know that. I was advocating trading Nabby years ago while you were still sucking your thumb and tooting his horn.
I didn’t say we’d be a lottery pick. I didn’t say blow it up. Personally I’d trade Marleau for Ales Hemsky, Cogliano, and Omark, or Hemsky, Paajarvi, and a 2nd. Something like that to give this team more speed and more depth. Then I’d sign Kyle Wellwood and Mike Comrie for the third line to add some actual punch.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
We have a goalie tandem that’s a weakness
Odd. Considering lots of teams don’t have tandems and they didn’t win… yet it’s a weakness?
By punch do you mean drinks a lot of punch? I don’t know what punch Wellwood would add other than his ability to drain the punch bowl.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Wow you made a pun with the word punch. niiice.
You misunderstood what i say. If I’d written “We have a goalie tandem. That is a weakness,” with a period in between those two sentences, that would mean I think goalie tandems are innately a weakness. But, that’ not what I wrote smartypants. I wrote “We have a goalie tandem that is a weakness.” What is a weakness? What is “that?” That = the goalie tandem, that we have. I.e, our goalie tandem. Goalie tandems, in and of themselves, can be good, and they can be bad. I am all for having a good goalie tandem.
But, I said we have a weak goalie tandem, because it consists of Thomas Greiss, a backup Todd Mclellan mistrusted so much that he would barely play him last season, even though the Sharks had a playoff spot locked up from midseason on, and even though it’s been shown statistically that Nabokov plays better in the playoffs when he plays less during the regular season (less than 60 games I believe it is), and even though it was clear Nabby was fatiguing.
That’s part 1 of our goalie tandem.
Part 2 is Niittymaki, a lifelong back-up goaltender, who is very injury prone, who has very little postseason experience, and who is of a smaller stature. Doug Wilson meant to copy Chicago, and Niemi, which is all he seems capable of doing now, copying other teams, instead of having his own idea. But, Niemi has at least 20 pounds and 1 inch on Niemi. To be a strict butterfly goalie and still cover the high shots every inch and lbs counts.
So that’s why our goalie tandem is weak now, and can be considered a weakness. In conclusion you simply misread what I said. This is your fault, and your problem, not mine. Next time, I will not take the time to spoon feed you the logic you seem incapable of comprehending, so start using your head buddy.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup, we’re all a bunch of mouth-breathers here who need your intelligence, your genius, to guide us to logic and reason and a Cup winning roster.
It’s not like we can just disagree or anything: there is a clear right way (coincidentally, yours) and a wrong way (everyone here).
[By your logic, Chicago’s goaltending last year was a weakness and should have been addressed via trade. Instead, they won the Cup.]
Huet was a weakness. Niemi was not. I’ve seen nothing from Greiss to indicate that he has the same level of natural skill at his position that Niemi does. As for Niittymaki as a comparable to Niemi, he’s not comparable because he’s gotten chance after chance to be a starter, and has always found a way to lose the job. I still think he’s better value at 2mil than Nabby was at 5 mil, but how good of value he is at a certain cap hit doesn’t change his ability level. I think he’ll do just fine for us, but if we’re playing the Vancouver Canucks in the playoffs, and they already have the better forward group and defense group, then Niittymaki being worse than Luongo, or even Turco, who the Sharks could have signed for less than Niitty, then that has to be considered a weakness. He’s not a weak goaltender compared to 10 year olds, but we’re not competing for a cup against ten year olds. We’re competing against the best contenders, so that’s the level he has to be compared to. And compared to that elite level, he’s shown over his career that he is a weakness. Can he turn it around? It’s always possible. but as things stand right now on paper the goaltending of the sharks is a weakness. It’s not their biggest one but it is one.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Last time i checked it didnt matter because Detroit wins every year.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Wrong. On paper, a lesser goaltender, with a much better defense, beats Luongo and Vancouver’s defense missing Willie Mitchell. What’s it going to take for you guys to start considering all the variables before posting? If Niitty was playing behind Chicago’s defense, he’d be a weakness outweighed by a huge strength. Niemi wasn’t a weakness at all. He was a strength helped out by an even bigger strength. Luongo was a bigger strength than Niemi who played behind a much more negative defense.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
If you believe Niemi was not a weakness
You missed most of the regular season for Chicago. Niemi was a very streaky goaltender. If you want to call that a strength, that’s having a lot of luck on your side at the right time. But more of that has to do with Duncan Keith and Brent Seabrook.
There’s a reason this thread was about the acquisition of Willie Mitchell: Because for us, he would have been a strength, afforded by our “weakness” in goal.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
+1
That guy had more luck than a bag of four-leaf clover.
So many rebounds….If it hadn’t been for CHIs exceptional defensemen, he’d have been screwed six ways from Sunday in the playoffs. He even said as much himself in a recent article in the CHI Trib.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
In addition
Chicago had, for my money, the best defensive forwards in the league. 4 man unit working Niemi’s crease. And that is as dirty as it sounds.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Pass me that bottle of Purell.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Sorry, you lost me when you talked about natural skill and Niemi. Niemi is horrible and has no business being a starting goaltender in the NHL.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions
But, Niemi has at least 20 pounds and 1 inch on Niemi.
Mind=blown.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
He plays with himself?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Who doesnt? explains the 1 inch at least
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions
We did get rid of Nabby. And we're still in the hole.
Point?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Kyle Wellwood is fat.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Isnt Marleau one of the best playoff performers since the lockout? I’m failing to see your logical progression of getting rid of “playoff failures” and proceed to say trade one of the most successful…
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
No he’s not.
Now you can see my progression. He’s been consistently invisible for the sharks in the playoffs over the past few years. even in games the puck bounced to him in front of open nets on rebounds this last postseason where he managed to score some goals he was still invisible.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent. So Sidney Crosby one of the premier forwards in the game, and excellent playoff performer has 30 goals. Marleau a horrible playoff performer according to you only has 26. Wonderful good to know hes SO MUCH worse than everyone else.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Yup, he kind of is.
Check mymclife’s image above in the thread for reference.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a shame
When evidence proves you wrong. Try actual numbers.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
You make some valid points
But anyone who advocates trading for anyone from the current Edmonton Oiler squad has to ask themselves what they are thinking.
That team is awful. And to think that three spare parts from it are going to improve a perennial playoff team is very wishful thinking.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
It’s not just 3 spare parts from Edmonton… it’s 3 spare parts from Edmonton PLUS Kyle Wellwood. You know a guy not a single team in the league has even bothered to contact about a job. He’s a difference maker.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I’m sorry but you’re just not a very intelligent person are you. I guess if Edmonton had a winning record last year the move would be brilliant.
Hemsky was injured for almost the whole season. While was healthy, however, the Oilers were playing decent hockey, and had a winning record. Hemsky may be the most talented player with a stick in the league. He can add a lot and more of what a guy like patrick kane adds to the blackhawks, which is something the sharks lack. Paajarvi didn’t evne play in edmonton last season.
The fact that Wellwood hasn’t been signed just tells me most NHL gm’s are idiots. that’s why it takes them ten years and 10 tries at top 5 draft picks to turn their teams around. that’s why the same few ones who are actually decent have no trouble being on top of the league very single year (see ken holland). That’s why Huet got 5 million a year, and that’s from the stanley cup building GM. So you know if someone stupid enough to do that is the guy on top of the league this past season, that everyone eles is truly awful.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s all getting clear. People who don’t think the same thoughts as you are idiots. Glad you spelled that out.
Only when im right. when im right, and you disagree, that makes you wrong.
I hope you’re still following.
as for idiocy, when someone is very smart, and people disagree with him on every little thing, that usually makes them unintelligent. Either that, or they’re so bias about the topic in question that they forgo their otherwise intelligent thoughts in favor of the ones they want to believe.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
But you’re basing this on the presumption that you’re intelligent. I hate to break it to you, but you’re not. Not even close
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Let me quote myself again
dude teh shaks shuld totlly hav a 3-heded gm lyk teh satrs! wolsin 4 sather, hull (cause avery siging wuz amzing!), lahtown, and low.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
haha!
I wanna quote myself now…
so this is lik my first year watching the sharks. ive only watched abuot 2 and a half games and it dosent make ne sense. my friend said that they were like the best team in the major hockey league. i thought they were supposed 2 have like the most points but instead lost 2 the anehiem team. they played so bad in the 1st 2 quarters. aslo wut happened to joe thorton?? i thought he was suposed 2 score teh most points. i think he should be fired cuz hes almost the worst player ever. i think there best player so far was tory mitchel cuz hes been the best all season. i wunder wuts wrong wit patrick marlo. hes suposed to has score the most points. i thinks the sharks should jus play better than the anehiem team and try 2 beat them but 1st fire joe thorton
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
Haha, nice
For those who are lost, this thread is where I’m quoting from, and this post is where idunno is quoting from.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
So, to recap
You want to trade Patrick Marleau for a guy who was injured for almost the whole season, plus some other guys from Edmonton?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Some other guys from edmonton
That couldn’t get playing time on an injury riddle team in last place.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
yup if u followed teams besides the sharks ud know they are dying for a #1 center and would overpay dearly for one because most have ntc’s and wont waive them to there. i just suggested hemsky/cogliano whoever else because i knew if i said more then u guys would be “ull never get that.” but yes, hemsky himself is more talented than marleau, just less productive in the regular season, but he adds so much and is exactly what the sharks need. paajarvi himself could end up being better than marleau. etc
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions
If hes more talented why is he not carrying his team and getting those points?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
hemsky himself is more talented than marleau, just less productive in the regular season
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Oh, God.
You got Elvis’s attention. It’s all over now. :-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
I ignore other teams because I hate hockey
It’s why I’m on a hockey blog.
Everyone would want a #1 centreman and would overpay. But if you honestly believe that anyone from a mismanaged franchise like Edmonton can come and replace a player the caliber of Patrick Marleau, I have some beachfront property in Kansas you might be interested in.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What does a franchise being mismanaged have anything to do with a good player on that team? If someone came in and took over the Sharks and did a terrible job running the team, would that change the fact that Joe Thornton is a good productive regular season player?
no. it’s completely irrelevant. think before you post.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm still missing how making it to the playoffs every year since the lockout makes the Sharks Losers, ...
…and DW incompetent.
Seriously.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
I do think before I post
Winning and losing are cultures.
There is NO ONE on the Edmonton Oilers roster we should consider because that franchise has been in free-fall since Chris Pronger left.
If you put a good player on a bad team, nothing good happens. You can take one player, remove him from the bad team, and see what happens.
If you would like to take a group of them wholesale for a proven commodity like Patrick Marleau, you are dumber than your lack of capitalization and punctuation make you appear.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Aug 25, 2010 5:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is ridiculous. Dan Boyle’s Lightning were being mismanaged as bad as a team can be mismanaged. The team was in a free fall since their Cup win, juuust like Edmonton after their finals appearance.
Yet, Dan Boyle, coming off an injury, just like Hemsky, with a HUGELY negative +/-, coming from a losing culture….
How’d that work out?
Truly I cannot believe how perfect a parallel I had to draw on there. You are just dead wrong. There is no other way to put it. No good player coming from a bad team can be a good player on your team if you acquire him. You’re really going with that?
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Okay, then why hasnt wellwood been a stud?
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
One player acquired for peanuts
Compared to a marquee player shipped out for largely unproven commodities.
Thank you for proving my point.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
People actually DO that?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
If you watched the Sharks, you'd know Marleau has played almost exclusively on the wing the past two years.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Trading Nabby? Seriously, watch some hockey.
He bailed out the team on numerous occasions. I think he was a key reason to the “success” of this season. Obviously, people who don’t like him will focus on the goals he let in, how he sucked in the playoffs, blah blah blah. But honestly, if he was on a team with better defense, the guy would have led us to at least one Cup.
And I’m starting to lose respect to your hockey knowledge… Trade Marleau because he doesn’t have speed and hinders “depth”? And the fact that ur even considering Wellwood and the similarly inflating Mike Comrie draws multiple questions.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
He’s 5’10 181 pounds. Hardly fat. If his conditioning is an issue, that’s what coaches are for, to improve players weaknesses. no player is perfect, especially at 500k per year. But at that price even if he only had the stamina to play 10 minutes a game it would be worth it, because those would be 10 good minutes. He’s always been skilled. The knock on him was just that he wasn’t a good defensive player. He improved that drastically to the point where he was penalty killing regularly for the Canucks. He’d be a great pickup just like Afinogenov was a fantastic pickup for the Thrashers last offseason for near base salary. They got a top line winger good for over 60 points for less than 1 million dollars. Ryan Clowe got 3.675 million and didn’t even hit 60. That’s how good of value it was.
I hear scoring in the east is REALLY hard
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
the level of competition in the east is significantly weaker than that in the west, the parity in the west is noted nearly everywhere. Preying on weak WEAK teams (ie: edmonton) make high school players look amazing.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Edmonton is in the west.
Shakes head
You’re pathetic.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
Oops, i meant Toronto, i got into reading the comments above about Edmonton. Good to know you’ve never made a typo
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
What happened to “Preying on weak WEAK teams (ie: edmonton) make high school players look amazing.”
I liked that excuse better. You can’t have both. pick one.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Preying on weak WEAK teams (ie: TORONTO) make high school players look amazing
How is toronto NOT a weak team? Edmonton is as well, but alas not the example i was using in explaining HOW WEAK the EAST could be.
Logical progression seems to be a weakness of yours. (see what i did there is comment on how “weakness” is a favorite term of yours)
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions
You thought Edmonton was in the east. You said so bluntly. Now you’re trying to pretend you didn’t. I’m not going to respond to it anymore. You can waste your time trying to dig yourself out of the hole you created if you like but I’m not interested in wasting my time on your lack of knowledge.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:50 PM PDT up reply actions
You’ve never been saying something and read something else and said it by accident? LOL Good for you, you’re right stick to that as being my entire knowledge of hockey.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t believe that was it because after you made the initial mistake you tried to play it off like you meant to say Edmonton, just that you didn’t mean edmonton was in the east. Then you changed your story, that you never meant to say edmonton at all, that you meant to say toronto, even though neither of us had mentioned toronto once prior.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Badgering the witness
(I lied, I’m totally not backing off the personal insults!)
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
How does that thought even make sense. I had Toronto (a very OBVIOUS eastern team (and horrible one at that)) in mind but read Edmonton, then proceeded to write Edmonton. Pretty sure thats what logic is…a sequential process of ideas
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, stop being an asshole…
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Edmonton is also an EXAMPLE
of a weak team, like much of the east.
Thanks for playing.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
thank you. i really did enjoy playing immature 12 year old tries, in a pathetic, desperate fashion, to recover from his truly insipid mistake, and then tries to lash out at the other person to take attention off of his stupid mistake, a mistake, it just so happens, which reveals how little he really knows about hockey.
so, playing on your little game metaphor, maybe you should go back to your lesser league. you don’t have what it takes to play with the big boys.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy run-on sentence, Batman!
And dude, if it wasn’t already inferred, lay off the personal attacks. Everyone here has a right to post their opinions just as much as you, if not more so since they’re refraining from insulting people who disagree with them.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Personally
I think the personal attacks have become a vital part of this thread!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I’m sorry but I’ve been insulted much more than i’ve insulted anybody. Try being fair.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I said “I’m sorry but I’ve been insulted much more than i’ve insulted anybody. Try being fair.”
What that means is, I was insulted, manytimes, and I insulted people back, to a degree. Calling someone unintelligent is hardly the holy grail of insults. I’m not denying that I’ve insulted anyone. I’m just saying I was picked on first, by everybody.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Just a shot in the dark here, but this happens a lot, huh?
by ievans on Aug 25, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And a classy job you did of handling yourself the whole way through buddy
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Thats probably because you called yourself intelligent when spouting crap. When you have something constructive to say or add, but don’t need to claim you are intelligent maybe we’ll listen.
If you have to say you’re intelligent, you’re not.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
When did i claim i was intelligent? After people made fun of my opinions, tried to use flawed logic to argue them. When I say 5+5 = 10, and that number, times 2, is 20, and someone tries to argue it by saying “no, 5 + 5 = 11, so therefore 2 times that number is 22, not 20.”
When someone tries to demean what I’m saying with stupidity, and believe me, it is stupidity. I am correct. In that case, when they’re making fun of me, even though they’re the ones who are wrong, I have every right to say sorry, I know you’re trying, but you’re just not as smart as me and therefore you’re making lots of mistakes in your logic and in your argument that are leading you to incorrect conclusions.
by Buttercrunch7 on Aug 25, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
as for idiocy, when someone is very smart, and people disagree with him on every little thing, that usually makes them unintelligent. Either that, or they’re so bias about the topic in question that they forgo their otherwise intelligent thoughts in favor of the ones they want to believe.
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, I owe you a bit of an apology
I probably shouldn’t have just totally brushed your comment off. And you’re right. I’ll tone down the insults.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Haha.. have you seriously never done anything like that?
Haha.. have you seriously never done anything like that?If I’m typing “Would you like fries with that?” and hear “annoying little bitch on an awesome blog”, I might just end up typing “Shut up Buttercrunch7”. But hey, that’s just me.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Sorry, claiming Kyle Wellwood is not fat is like claiming the sky is not blue.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 25, 2010 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions
OK, I'll say it again....
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
I'm still missing how making it to the playoffs every year since the lockout makes the Sharks losers...
…and DW incompetent.
Seriously.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Don't you read Puck Daddy and HFBoards?
SHARKSCHOKERZLOL!!!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Aug 25, 2010 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
OMFGWTFIMOUTOFHEREGOINGTOTHETHRASHERZBOARDZ!!!!!
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Dude.. I actually go to the Thrashers board. Dont make fun of my local team.. :(
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I wasn't picking on the Thrashers.
If I wanted to pick on a team, it would be Edmunton.
Where the **** is Edmunton, anyway? ;-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
FIREJOETHORNTONTRADEDOUGWILSON!
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Here's that bag of pucks you asked for.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Welcome to Fear the Fin. We eat our own here.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
What was it someone said during the playoffs
“Fans of other teams think the waiting period is for THEIR fans…”
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Yeah, something like that.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Why am I reminded...
Of the guy that came here, started talking shit in another thread… got banned… then created a new account to whine about how that “other guy” got banned?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I was just thinking about him too wondering when TCY was gunna come back :P
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
This is now my favorite thread of the offseason.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
They lost to the Reds?
Epic Fail.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
To be honest, I’m not too torn up about it. It was far from the soul-crushing loss a 10-1 stomping would’ve been. If anything, the ability to rally back from a deficit that colossal bodes pretty well for the rest of the stretch. Add in the fact that the Reds are no slouches, are in 1st place in their division, and are in possession of one of the two best hitters in the NL, and I’m not super devastated. It’s time to beat up the D’backs!
Ok, fine, it would’ve been incredibly thrilling to have clawed all the way back, and then held the lead. Epic Pablo fail.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Bwahahahaha! Um. Ok.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Hey, they were down 9-1. That they even had to go into extras was great.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
(mine was sarcasm)
It was a hell of an effort. Sucks they couldnt cap it with the win, but shows the never die attitude! Makes me hopeful of good things to come from the team :)
by animadiversion on Aug 25, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but they were spanking them like an unruly troll the last two games.
So, um, Epic Fail. :-(
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
It’s funny I see some people like evilducks posting on here every 15 minutes every day. It’s like they have absolutely no lives or something.
Just because I warned you doesn’t mean you have to make a new account to post. It just means to stop insulting people, or you will be banned. And you don’t seem to be getting that.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
Yes, I am a mod. Which means I can see all the accounts made with the same IP address.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Aug 25, 2010 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
And my point was some of you should get a life. I’d say if you want to live on fearthefin all day long every day that’s your choice and it doesn’t affect me, but it does. Every time i post on here, because some of you are always online here, I get the same… less than brilliant… replies, from the same… less than brilliant… people.
Has it ever occurred to any of you that maybe I want to have an intelligent, mature discussion with some people capable of logical reasoning and perspective?
Maybe I’m asking too much.
Maybe you are asking too much.
Then again, it’s tough to hold “an intelligent, mature discussion with some people capable of logical reasoning and perspective” when you yourself seem to lack said attributes.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
"Get a life"
This coming from someone that has nothing better to do than sign up for no fewer than 3 accounts, just to try and infuriate people on a board that he cares nothing about.
Who doesn’t have a life? Yeah. look at that shiny gloss screen you’re sitting in front of real close. You’ll see his face.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Mymclife, there’s an example for you, one of many, of people insulting me. I did not even insult Bockerz personally. I was talking about other people, and he comes back and aims a specific insult at me.
Bockerz, if I am indeed lacking those attributes, what proof do you have? In other words, what exactly have I said that is incorrect, and that implies a lack of logical reasoning and perspective?
I’m very curious to hear.
Btw, I AM sorry for insulting you. It WAS uncalled for, and I apologize.
But that still doesn’t make what you said any less condescending.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Don’t apologize to him. He insulted you and then tries to sound innocent of it. It’s the same load of double talk horse shit he pulls every time he comes here and gets banned.
Considering the rest of us seem to be capable of arguing and not agreeing without talking down to people and throwing insults (see: me and Khaaz) and not manage to piss off the entire group of posters here to the point where they get banned, I don’t think you’ve got anything to worry about.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Well, that certainly got out of hand quickly, didn’t it? A few thoughts:
Buttercup seemed to care entirely too much about debating semantics; so much that any semblance of hockey knowledge was quickly lost in the mix. And when it did rear its ugly head, it was largely underwhelming. Kyle Wellwood? Pleeeeaaaaase.
Also, I’m not sure how this gem from SharksFanEst.1994 slipped under the radar:
If you watched the Sharks, you’d know Marleau has played almost exclusively on the wing the past two years.
Well played, sir.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Haha thanks, dude.
I’m surprised that what’s his name didn’t see/respond to it. I was looking forward to more lively innernets debate.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 25, 2010 9:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Has Marleau ever been a true #1 center for us?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Before Thornton’s arrival he was our #1 center
by animadiversion on Aug 26, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, he was the first line center for a while
Would you consider him a true #1 center though?
He seems much more like a #2 center or a 1st line winger.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Ehhh, I think hes a #1 center. I wouldn’t go so far as to say hes a superb #1 center. But definitely at least middle of the pack in terms of #1 centers. He is definitely also one of the top wingers out there. I think between being middle of the pack and being one of the best, its a no brainer. Furthermore, Thornton really is probably the best center in the game, so it would be silly to not pair one of the best wingers with one of the best centers
I have no idea if that makes any sense….I’m loopy with a lot of pain meds right now
by animadiversion on Aug 26, 2010 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Crosby, as much as I’m disgusted to admit it, is the best center in the game.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I dont know about that…the way I view a center is to be more of the set up guy, I don’t know of anyone better than Joe as a set-up man who also scores.
I’m not downplaying Crosby (i hate him though) but I think the center’s MAIN job is to make his wingers all that much better. Thornton could make me look like an NHL stud (not really but hyperbole is fun)
by animadiversion on Aug 27, 2010 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at the garbage that usually lines up next to Crosby, yet the guy tied in the scoring goal race and still had a ton of assists. The guy controls the ice when he’s out there. He does nothing but get better every year and is an absolute force in the playoffs most of the time. He’s better than Jumbo, and I’d trade straight up in a heart beat.
This coming from a man who loves Jumbo, and wants him to retire as a Shark.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking as well.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 26, 2010 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow … last comment I saw before my last meeting at work and heading home was TCY saying how mature everyone was taking this news. Clearly that was an invitation to go nutso on the thread huh? Wow!
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
Surprisingly, the “nutso” portion of this thread has had very little to do with Mitchell and more to do with Wallin and the fact that we should probably trade Marleau to Edmonton – queue Nabby’s laughs – for Hemsky and future considerations.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
It was that signing Wallin somehow prevented us from signing UFA’s. Which was never the case. The Wallin signing sucks, but the same reasons we never sign UFA’s is why we didn’t sign any UFA’s this year either.
Remember how much people think we overpaid for Niitty. Now inflate that scale to more recognized positions.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Here I was thinking I was missing an amazing conversation, and all it was was a flame war. :/
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Ditto
Generally, a FTF thread increasing in size that fast is usually not a good thing.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
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I thought the whole thing was really funny… might just be me.
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