Where in the world is Willie Mitchell? A look at how bonuses could help him land in San Jose
by Mr. Plank on Aug 8, 2010 9:51 PM PDT
in Armchair GM
Email
Print
These days it's all I can think about. That elusive top three defenseman the Sharks oh so desperately need, that one cog that would immediately becomes a key to the success during the franchise's upcoming 2010-2011 campaign, that one piece who would immediately vault the Sharks from a contender with some glaring issues into a contender that could arguably be considered the best team in the Western Conference.
I've covered how he matches up against other free agents here, his concussion issues and how valuable he truly is here, and who the Sharks are currently competing for his services here. There's just about no new information to explore right now on Big Willie Style in terms of potential signings , but here I am anyways, waxing poetic about something that just won't leave me alone.
I'm pretty sure I've developed a crush on a 33 year old man.
At any rate, one thing I realized last Friday was that Mitchell will qualify for bonuses considering he spent more than 100 days on the injured reserve last season. After sustaining a concussion on January 16th, Mitchell missed a total of 115 days during the year, including the Vancouver Canucks playoff run that saw them advance to the second round of the NHL playoffs. From article 50 of the Collective Bargaining Agreement:
(1) "Performance Bonuses" means any Bonuses set forth in a Player's SPC, the payment of which is contingent on the Player's achievement of some agreed-upon benchmark(s) related to his performance as a Player or his Club's performance during a particular League Year.
(2) Performance Bonuses shall be allowable under this Agreement only for:
(i) Players with Entry Level SPCs under Art icle 9 of this Agreement;
(ii) Players aged 35 or older as of June 30 prior to the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective, who have signed a one-year SPC for that League Year; and
(iii) Players who are "400-plus game Players" for pension purposes, and who: (i) in the last year of their most recent SPC, spent 100 days or more on the injured reserve list; and (ii) have signed a one-year SPC for the current or upcoming League Year.
Mitchell has played 586 games in his NHL career, which qualifies him for performance bonuses during 2010-2011. This should appeal to Doug Wilson for a couple of reasons.
The first is that it keeps a player, who despite showing no signs of lingering concussion issues, a low-risk signing considering the fact that if he shows symptoms during the year and is unable to play, San Jose would have put a limited amount of cash into their investment. The second is that it keeps his cap hit low-- teams are able to exceed the cap ceiling via bonuses, with the penalty for going over (i.e. player(s) hitting those bonuses and pushing the team over the upper limit) occurring during the following season.
Secondly, with the CBA stipulating that one-year deal is required if a contract contains these types of bonuses, it means that the Sharks would still have roster flexibility next offseason if a) prospects from Worcester are pushing their way onto the team and/or b) Mitchell doesn't live up to expectations. While Mitchell's desire for a one-year deal could be a selling point for him (generally a player will want to ink a multi-year contract after an injury considering the fact that NHL contracts are guaranteed), with the way this summer has gone for free agents, it might be the only option Mitchell has whether he's negotiating with the Capitals, Sharks, Red Wings, or Canucks.
Extending an incentive-laced contract with bonuses (likely games played, average TOI etc.) is just another option for Doug Wilson to use in his attempt to sign the only high impact free agent defenseman remaining on the market. And at this point in the offseason, where the blueline still has some massive holes, it's another tool that could help put San Jose over the top during 2010 and beyond.
Go Sharks.
105 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good find with regard to the bonus structure – I remember seeing you tweet like mad about this last week, haha. Adds more intrigue to an already intriguing situation, if nothing else. I was pretty iffy on Mitchell because of how risky the concussion thing is, but the salary implications of this bonus system could alleviate a lot of the risk, as you said, and I’m now much more in favor of Mitchell.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Yeah, we discussed the bonus issue a little in the the comments on Mr. Plank's original Mitchell story.
It only makes sense to use whatever tools we can to get this guy. This, plus the added capspace we have from our goaltending shift, should make this a no-brainer.
With the new blid-hit rules in play, along with the no0issue icetime, he’s looking to be less and less of a risk by any definition.
Do it, Doug!
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
He's gonna sign in Detroit...
But if he doesn’t, and instead comes to the Sharks, that would be pretty awesome! I suspect any contract he gets, from anyone, will have bonuses in it.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
Zero…why Detroit? Because some guy on the Tweets said so? That seems his third or fourth choice. I would put Vancouver in the lead, and then the Caps and SJ tied for second.
The truth is, he has been talking to ( or, his agent, same thing ) the Canucks since it came out that he was OK.
I have not seen anything else that would make it look likely that he is leaving town( and from listening to an interview last week with our GM on TEAM 1040 ( local sports radio ) it was obvious that Gillis really wants him too)…but it seems that home will be his first choice.
The Cap won’t be a problem ( GMMG’s words ). Besides, it looks like he is nearing a deal on Bieksa (in Ottawa perhaps) that makes it even more likely that he will sign here.
Of course, what do we know Plank? Its just all supposition and rosterbation at this point.
But fun …right?
Sorry guys, wasn’t trying to throw water on your bonfire…just seems more likely that a month before camp, if a dude doesn’t have to move from home ( all things being equal )…than why would he?
Ice time
I’ve been reading the rosterbation going on on Nuck’s misconduct. I constantly see him slotted as a 3rd pairing guy. On the Sharks he’d be getting 1st pairing minutes if healthy.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Also
We have far more cap space to work with. So even if your GM claims cap space won’t be a problem, we just have a ton more wiggle room if we really want him (I just hope DW wants him as much as I want him on the Sharks).
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
OK E.D…but…
Rosterbation by a bunch of fans does not make a whit of difference.
Willie being on the first, second , or third pairing is not, or I would think it is not, a concern of the player moving forward. He played with all the guys here except for Ballard and Hamhuis. I doubt which pairing he makes it onto make a bit of difference.
Some situations here he would be second or third pairing. He would also be the first guy out on the PP…the first guy out to shut down a #1 opposing line…believe me, the Canucks would use him and not keep him on the bench.
The Sharks may have more Cap…don’t know…
I do know that, with Salo on the LTIR to start the season, the Canucks are under the Cap right now. Deal Bieksa ( a deal everyone knows will happen…especially if Willie signs ) and the Canucks are about 4 mil under. More than enough to sign Willie and maybe another player.
Plus, everyone that looks at Capgeek and thinks the Canucks have Cap problems have to remember that the team is over the Cap with 26 players signed.
Even running a full 23 instead of 22 like most will this year, and there are at least 3 salaries that wlll not be on the opening night roster.
To be honest, I love Willie as a player as much as Plank, and don’t want to see him anywhere else…especially a Conference rival.
But if I read the guy right from being a fan and listening to all his interviews since he got hurt…it seems he is the kind of guy that has unfinished business with the team he is already on…not a guy that will look for another one…
That familiarity is a plus for the Canucks.
I hope!
You’re right, rosterbation by fans means less than nothing. The problem is that rosterbation comes from looking at the roster and frankly, the Nuck defense is deeper than the Sharks. There’s a reason they slot him in at 3rd pair, because you are paying a lot of guys a lot of money to be anything less than top 4.
You currently have 9 players with NHL salaries on defense, including Salo. You have a 23 player roster that is 2.6M over the cap, not 26 (still, including Salo). 6 of those guys are currently making more than 3M. We bitch about having to pay Huskins 1.7 to play 3rd pairing minutes.
So great, Salo’s 3.5 comes off the books and you’re a mil under for half the season, but you have to have room for him when he comes back. You’re plan is to still sign a 10th guy? Even if you trade Bieksa and don’t sign Mitchell you’ll still have 7 guys on an NHL salary playing defense.
I see that you guys love him, but management seems to have built a team assuming he’s going to be gone.
The Sharks have a full roster of defense too, with 3M left in cap space, meaning that one of those D are on their way out of town if Willie signs. The cheapest of which being Huskins at 1.7.. meaning we have almost 5 mil to work with for our defensive needs. The Sharks can out pay the Nucks, and they need him more. So, it comes down to where he thinks he’s going to get the most play time, which will lead to a bigger contract the next year assuming he’s healthy. The Sharks just seem like a better choice for Willie going forward. Well, the Caps are basically in the same position as the Sharks, so either one really.
I think the only reason the Nucks are still even in the running is because he likes it there, I just don’t see them being able to fit him without dumping more than just Bieksa. Edler or Ehrhoff would have to go too.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
LIke I said E.D, don’t treat Capgeek as infallible,
That list does not include Jeff Tambellini or Victor Oeskovich, There was another signing this year who escapes me that is not on there. Their number is a little off.
The Canucks are, according to what has been reported in newspapers and the like, over by 2.5 or so…that is cancelled out by Salo on the LTIR ( By the time he gets back, it will be easier…with half the salaries already paid, to afford him, or make a minor move to trade a lesser light to keep him for the playoffs…or maybe he just retires! We don’t know. The news out of Finland is that he had surgery and is out until at least December, and likely longer )
Think what you want. With Salo on the LTIR they are just under. Trading Bieksa and there is no problem. Just Bieksa…no one else would have to move.
“It comes down to.”..? I didn’t know you and I knew that! Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself! LOL
As for the depth, Willie is a smart player ( was the Canucks players’ rep )…he knows that depth is a good thing. As for them moving on from him…he was always in their plans ( as mentioned in multiple interviews ) as long as he could get healthy. The management are ecstatic that he is. They know how the fans feel about Willie here ( not just me!!)
I get that you really want him. He may end up there.
But there is more than just some longshot reason …“I think the only reason the Nucks are still even in the running is…”.
He would want to sign here because the Canucks are one of the best bets for the Cup this year…That, coupled with playing at home, and all the intangibles I pointed out above…make the Canucks the favorite for his services…not some longshot only in the running because he “likes it there”.
Capgeek includes both of those players as non-roster players, considering they’re both on two-way contracts it’s likely they end up in the AHL or some other affiliate and not against the cap anyway. You’re still 2.6M over with 23 roster players on NHL salaries, 9 of which are defensemen. I’ve yet to find anything more accurate than Capgeek as far as rosters and salaries, that includes official team websites.
I don’t think you understand how LTIR works. When a player is on LTIR you do not remove their salary from your books. It still counts, you just get the cap raised by the amount equal to their salary. If you don’t spend that much to replace him then you don’t build up free space. Once he’s back on the books that leway bonus goes away and his full 3.5 will be counting against you on a game by game basis. You’ll have no free space accumulated due to his absence.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
The multiple interviews thing is nice. We had multiple interviews with Malhotra and Doug Wilson saying he was close to signing and he wanted to come back to finish business. Yet he’s a Nuck now. There were multiple interviews with Stan Bowman saying that both Hjalmarsson and Niemi would be back next year, and yet Niemi has moved on.
You may want one thing, the cap may just not allow it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
OK E.D. Beleive what you want.
I’ll believe the GM and those that say there is no problem.
LTIR…I understand just fine. You can use the money from the missing guy to sign his replacement. I never said it is magically gone.
The LTIR amount is enough to sign Willie. Trading one guy is enough to give plenty of flex room.
But hey, its all supposition anyhow. Plus, its obvious that you don’t know as much about the Canucks as you would like to think.
Victor O and Tambellini are both on two way contracts. So is Perrault, yet he is on the list. Like I said, its not infallible. Cap Geek is not plugged in to every teams’ roster. They make mistakes too.
Beleive what you want. You might even get the player.
But it will be a second choice. The Canucks are the fave for Mitchell ( and the quote you are using from Bowman on Niemi and Hammer was before the offer sheet DW threw out there. ) That changed his thinking on Niemi because DW forced him to choose.
What I want is irrelevant. Of course I want the player on the team. But my confidence is from knowing what I do about the character of the man, and the fact that Gillis does not bullshit the media much here. He may obfuscate, but he does not lie. If he says he wants Mitchell and has no problem with the Cap…you can take him at his word.
Perault was last year, not this year.
Bowman said that before and after the offer sheet.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Actually, my bad
He wasn’t last year either, just 08-09.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Curious why you think Perrault is a 2-way deal
Even Nucks Misconduct have it listed as 1-way
http://www.nucksmisconduct.com/2010/7/1/1547484/canucks-sign-joel-perrault
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
In regards to depth
All the moves on D for you guys seemed to indicate you’re loading up on D. Whether that’s assuming you’re not resigning Mitchell or just padding depth to compensate for Salo, I don’t know. But as you say, Willie is a smart guy. What is he going to think when he reads the tea leaves and sees Hamhuis and Ballard brought in, and Salo coming back?
If he is truly a Canuck at heart, he says “WTF ever, I’m with this team until I die and I’ll sign here for the contract that makes the most sense financially for the club.”
As good a guy as he clearly is, I have a hard time believing that’s what he actually says or does. He’s coming off of injury, needs some level of financial security, and probably has a jot of professional pride and wants to do what he does best somewhere: play top pairing minutes.
I think that’s something we can offer that MAYBE the Canucks can’t. I agree with you that in Vancouver, he’d still be the first man called on for the PK and defensive zone faceoffs and otherwise shutdown scenarios. But I still have to question then what you do with all the defensive contracts you have. Management has to look at all of those things BEFORE the season starts, BEFORE all these defenseman take the ice.
In terms of not having a problem with the cap, I remember a similar quote from our GM, Doug Wilson, last off-season when we were in a cap crunch and trying to make a move for Heatley. “I can make one phone call and get us under the cap.”
That one phone call sent The Hoff to you guys in exchange for taking Brad Lukowich’s contract off our hands in exchange for basically a bag of pucks.
There’s a lot of meaning to statements like that. Would you want management to make such a move to bring back Mitchell? I suspect the answer is yes, but it could hurt. A lot.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Canucks are the fave for Mitchell ( and the quote you are using from Bowman on Niemi and Hammer was before the offer sheet DW threw out there. ) That changed his thinking on Niemi because DW forced him to choose.
I definitely agree that Vancouver would be Mitchell’s first choice.
However, as Evilducks and Elvis mentioned, it would appear that Gillis has too many defenseman on the roster right now to justify signing him. Assuming the Canucks spend to the upper limit this season (which appears to be what they will do), once Salo returns Vancouver would need to clear roughly $3.5MM in cap space to fit him back onto the roster. Moving Bieksa before the season helps get you under now, but there’s still some more pieces that need to fall from a salary standpoint to get the Nucks there. After that, there’s still an issue of a logjam on the blueline.
It’s definitely a possibility, but there seems to be some pretty big roadblocks for Vancouver in obtaining Mitchell, even if they go the bonus route we’re talking about in this article.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Great points all.
I don’t really think he will sign with Vancity if the offer isn’t fair. I agree with Elvis that there seems to be a good relationship between the two GMs…but they are competitors.
So, he will get paid.
I do have a feeling that Salo is injured far worse, and will be more of a second half guy. But I hurt my achilles this summer and it still hurts 3-4 months later! Even with being an older guy.
Plus, Salo is probably gone next year too. If Bieksa isn’t traded…gonzo. There are only 4 defensemen ( I think…) signed long term.
Heck, Ehrhoff is in his last year. So, yes, we have a lot of defensemen, but their are several that are only one year left sorta guys too.
I really don’t see the roadblock you guys do. Yes, I can read the roster, and see who is signed and whatnot. But Gillis seems the ultimate pragmatist, and probably already hs a deal nearing fruition on Bieksa so he can sign Willie.
He knows that he has a lot of good all around guys like Edler, Hamhuis, Ballard, Ehrhoff and even Obrien on occasion. He is getting better and better. Just needs to fix that fifty cent head.
Good stuff guys.
I hope he signs with us. But if he doesn’t, I hope he signs with the Caps instead of you guys…
No offense…
;-)
I don't really think this is an issue of rosterbation, but rather ...
…an issue of current roster, and what happened on July 1.
When July 1 rolled around, rather than re-negotiating with Mitchell, your GM went after Manny. Not a bad signing, as most here will agree. But it did start to close the window for a Mitchell return, in terms of roster space. It would be hard to go to a UFA you just signed (Malhotra), and say, “oh, well, change of plans. We’re dropping you back a few positions in the lineup,” when his whole point in moving was top positioning in a contending team.
There’s also the confidence issue. When, as a player, your GM decides not to show confidence in your return in such a public way, and you prove them wrong, is the incentive there to go back to a disbelieving GM just because he realizes “wow, I guess he’s not hurt that bad,” after the bell has rung?
Trust me, I’m not slamming the ‘nucks. Love the physical play up there, and most people know how I feel about top notch netminders, and the Cannucks definitely have one of them in Luongo, but on this issue, it’s not nearly cut and dry as you make it sound.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Does signing a UFA forward really impact the signing of a D-man all that much? Are you simply talking about cap space? Or do you mean that it shows that Mitchell seemed as a low priority to the Vancouver top brass?
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Ballard and Hamhuis replaced Mitchell… but that’s just me.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I was referring to priority to the GM. Sorry for not being clear.
Meaning offensive scoring (Manny) was more of a priority than Mitchell (defense).
I probably should have worded that better (grin).
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Low priority.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
gotcha.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions
The thing is…everything is always asked about here by the media, and the team does try to answer the questions at least as much as he can.
He knows we are all a little nuts about it.
The Mitchell thing has come up several times. The line officially is/ and always was, that if the man is healthy, we would talk to him and love to ahve him on the team. But his health comes first.
Then it came about that he was healthy, and he became a priority. Plain and simple.
About the only thing it did roster wise, priority wise, is move up the need to trade Bieksa anyhow.
I dunno, the Wings have little cap space to sign him, and they still need to sign Abdelkater. I’m more worried about the Caps personally. I think it’s between us and them.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yeah, I only see it happening if they draw blood on their lower lines in Detroit.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
I just run under the assumption that when Detroit wants someone, Detroit gets that someone. It makes it much easier to deal with.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh, I’m not sure about that.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re destroying my dreams. It’s all I have left this summer after we didn’t sign care bears.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Detroit signed D Ruslan Salei, so that’s making people think they are out on Mitchell…if that gives you any hope!
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s good. I’d hate to be the destroyer of your dreams! I’m not usually that mean!
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
that’s nice of you, I’m usually not that nice personally. Don’t they still need to sign both Abdelkater and Lilja?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Yes on Abdelkater, not sure on Lilja…
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
Plank, I love you
I swear this is all I’ve been able to think about for about 2 weeks or whenever he announced that he’s not suffering any lingering effects from the concussion during work outs.
I’ve wanted to sign this guy since the off season started.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
We gave you Ehrhoff! Give us Mitchell!
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
(grin)And Manny. Dammit.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
The title is a joke on Where in the World is Carmen San Diego but the picture is a joke on Where’s Waldo…
Good post though, interested to see how all this turns out.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh…..
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions
But that's not right....
…it would imply he get’s lost on the ice.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
No, no.
He knows where he is, but the other team doesn’t. He’s very sneaky.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
I just got a "Spy vrs Spy" flash back
"Like I said, it’s like me giving you a high-five and chest bump after you hit for the cycle against the kid in the wheelchair." Vacafan on May 14, 2010
Indeed sir, for I am an idiot.
Good catch. I’m tempted to change the title to “Where’s Willie?” but the damage has already been done.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Although, if you change the picture to one of Willie Mitchell’s face on Carmen Sandiego’s body, it would be even more hilarious.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
I could never find that woman.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Aug 9, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Please Hockey Gods give him to usssss!
Just letting the boredom cogs rotate but if we don’t get Big Willie Style…who else is there for us to get? Seems like the pickings are slim now….is he our only hope? :I
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
as far as UFAs go, there’s not much else, but remember DW is always saying that he has until the trade deadline to put together a team.
i just think most of us would rather have a team together for the whole season.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow...seriously...
trade deadline is in March…thats a while away…:( yea I would really rather us have a put-together team by start of the season. Thanks dude for the info.
High sticking, tripping, slashing, spearing, charging, hooking, fighting, unsportsmanlike conduct, interference, roughing… everything else is just figure skating.
- Anonymous
"My hope is that we put him (Couture) on a line with Seto and CloweThen you get the Coochy-Goochy-Clowe line." - Cerise
by mssjsclowie29 on Aug 9, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Any chance of Staal?
I heard he hasn’t signed yet…
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
No chance...
No way he leaves the Rangers. They’ll pay him eventually.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Might find this interesting...
One way they can quickly alleviate their salary cap woes is to demote struggling, high-priced defenseman Wade Redden to the AHL. Redden comes with a cap hit of $6.5 million a year for the next four years. By ditching that money in the AHL, the cash would likely be readily available to get Staal signed and still be under the cap. There’s a catch here though, what if Wade Redden has an outstanding training camp?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
The Rangers will definitely waive Redden
If he ever performs again, they have an interesting quandry. But that’s a big if. He’s in his 30s. For him to every be worth his salary, he has to be Dan Boyle. And his career production thus far shows no indication of that.
On the bright side, if he ever does perform, even if he’s waived, he comes back to the big club at the end of the season without the hassle of re-entry. They have to waive him at the start of every season.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Exactly...
Redden will definately end up in the minors. I fully believe that. Staal will get resigned at some point as well.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
more of the negatives of feeling the need to buy these high price forwards… namely heatley, the cause for losing ehrhoff. if we don’t have solid D, the whole “low price” goalie situation is going to blow up.
Shut-down D (Goalie & D-men) should always be priority 1.
You can’t lose if they can’t get one to the back of the net.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
but you can’t win if you don’t score.
to make a football comparison, the Niners have had a great defense for a while now, yet they’re still failing to make the playoffs and haven’t won the division in a while despite being in the weakest division in the league.
you can limit the other teams scoring with a great D, but if you can’t score yourself, you’re still not gonna win.
and remember the saying “the best defense is a good offense.”
all that being said, I actually agree that defense is of paramount importance. just felt like being nit-picky.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I think defense is of paramount importance FOR THIS TEAM RIGHT NOW because of how we are constructed. Offense is super important (I actually think we could still use more), but we do have glaring holes on defense, and those need to be addressed first. If you take another team, defense may be less of a priority. And if you were starting a team from scratch, I’d say offense and defense are at least equal, if not slightly in favor of offense being more important. That’s just me, though. I subscribe hardcore to “the best defense is a good offense.”
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Hahahaha! Ok, PNK. We'll buy a beer for each other at FTF day and call it even.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
(reply fail. ...dammit.)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
That hit and his save against Dallas three seasons ago (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9E3B2Cnu4E) are my favorites. Whoever gets him gets that kind of player. Awesome.
(So, that said, it can’t be Detroit)
'Nucks Misconduct - Housing Swedish Millionaires Since 2000.
by Yankee Canuck on Aug 9, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
DO IT DW! Just do it already. PLease?
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
btw I LOVE the bonuses thing
Continuing our discussion about whether it’s worth putting ourselves in cap hell to win a cup – I think signing Mitchell at a cheap cap hit STUFFED with bonuses while still remaining at the cap limit would be a great way to go over the cap (potentially assuming Mitchell plays great and hits all his bonuses) to give us a big advantage at a cup this year without hurting the team too much in the future.
Although thinking about it now, i’m not sure what we could even do with the extra cap space at this point. There aren’t really any good offensive defenseman available still except kaberle, and we’d have to trade clowe for him so we’d still have extra cap space to use especially after moving a defenseman to make room for kaberle (and Mitchell).
I guess we could trade Clowe for Kaberle, move murray and Huskins and then sign a guy like Lee Stempniak to replace Clowe. I’d like to think DW could find some better trade options though.
I’m kind of ‘over’ Kaberle now. I’m thinking, if we don’t even consider pairing Boyle and Vlasic together because of the lack of size/physicality (respectively), then why would pair Kaberle and Vlasic together? I’d say Boyle is almost certainly tougher and more physical than Kaberle is. Would a Vlasic/Kaberle pairing really work that well? God i wish there were some other offensive defensemen out there!
Very few of them are going to be overly physical.
I don’t think we need physicality as much as just good defensive play from their partners.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Marc Staal is the perfect partner for Vlasic...
I was thinking, it might actually be possible to trade for Marc Staal if we included Couture in the deal. I believe the rangers are looking for a center to play with Gaborik and I don’t think they’d trade Staal in a deal that didn’t have another young promising player coming back their way.
I thought Couture was untouchable, mostly because he has such a low cap hit for a guy who could potentially be a top 6 forward, but it’s starting to look like we have some extra cap space to work with now so maybe trading couture could be an option for us. Couture, Murray, and a 1st sounds like it could be enough to get us Marc Staal I think. We could then sign W Mitchell to a low cap under 2 million on a contract filled with bonuses.
We’d then easily be a cup favorite with probably the best defense in the league, and we’d still have one of the best top 6 forward groups in the league.
Torrey Mitchell would have to center our 3rd line which i personally think he would be able to do with success, but i know most people around here have A LOT less faith in him than i do lol.
I love Staal and all, I just don’t know what I would expect from that pairing.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
While I don't know if I'd part with Couture AND a First for Staal
I think we’d simply ask a Staal/Vlasic pair to eat 25-30 minutes a night, let Dan Boyle play 20-25 and primarily on the PP and second D.
Are we sure Glen Sather won’t take Jamal Mayers and Kent Huskins for Staal?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Sather’s not an idiot when it comes to trades. It’s free agents that are his blind spot.
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
My Twitter
Couture….AND Murray…AND a first for Staal? No thank you…
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude, think of him like Chris Pronger, except super young and with the potential to be even better.
Not only is he going to be the best shutdown defenseman in the league (he already is one of the best), but he’s also got some real offensive talent that he’s only just starting to develop. I think he’s already good enough to relieve Boyle of some minutes; he put up 27 points last year as a 23 year old “shutdown defenseman” while facing the highest quality of competition in the league.
Obviously though, DW is the one making the deals. Maybe DW can work a better trade than that but I think Staal is definitely worth giving up all those assets for.
I have no doubt Marc Staal is going to be good…but so is Logan Couture. I would be hesitant to trade one for the other straight up, just because I think that highly of Couture’s potential (very good 2nd line center at worst). Staal could also end up being very good…but he could also regress…and you’re betting the farm on him with that trade. With a barren farm system, I’d be very hesitant to give up a first (to use to restock the farm) and our best current NHL ready prospect for Staal, who while very awesome in his own end with his stick, is not particularly physical.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Marc Staal’s potential is head and shoulders above Coutures man. Couture isn’t very big, he’s not very physical, and he’s not a great skater. He’s really just a player with amazing hockey sense. He’s a lot like Pavelski and he’ll likely end up being a very similar player, which is great but we don’t need another Pavelski really (and by the time we do, Coyle might be ready to step up and take the number 2 center position anyways), we need a Marc Staal.
Yes, 6’ 1" 200 lbs is sooooo small. Skating isn’t an issue. Physicality is less of an issue for a center than it would be for a defenseman. Having another Pavelski, in my eyes, WOULD BE AWESOME! Did you miss the playoffs? I mean, I know you didn’t, but are you telling me we couldn’t use more of that? I know we need defense right now. But I’m not willing to mortgage our offensive and farm system’s future just to target one guy.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Dude we need a defenseman like Marc Staal way more than we need another centerman. Besides, Marc Staal is 23 years old! We’re not mortgaging anything trading for a 23 year old defenseman that is already one of the best in the league, it could even be considered an investment trading Couture for Staal.
Murray will have to be moved anyways if we’re going to sign someone else, and who cares about losing a 30th overall pick if it makes us into cup favorites. (and we WIN!)
The bottom line is, Staal may already be one of the very best defenseman in the league up there with guys like Chara and Pronger, and he almost certainly will improve even further. Couture on the other hand, is pretty unlikely to be one of very best forwards in the league on the level of Ovechkin/Crosby etc.
I’m SURE Couture will be a damn good player, but best in the world like Marc Staal? There’s no reason to think that yet after scoring 9 points in 25 games.
Staal will fill several needs on defense and will help the team a lot more NOW than Couture will, AND he’ll likely help the team more in the future even if Couture becomes everything we dream of him becoming. (Pavelski)
You talk about how badly you want a cup and what you’d be willing to do, well this is trade that could greatly improve our chances at a cup and there really isn’t a ton of risk.
Best in the world???
Now you’re really exaggerating. Marc Staal has a LONG way to go, and needs a lot to break right for him, before being in that conversation.
You aren’t going to convince me otherwise…I was just making an observation of where I stood on it. No one knows anything of where either player is going to end up. I happen to really like Couture, and 1st round picks, and Murray…and really don’t feel like giving all that up for one player. Especially when we have scoring depth issues already.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Aug 9, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Look at all those advanced stats on Behind the Net, Staal is at the top of pretty much all of those among players who played a full NHL season (as is Willie Mitchell!) and he’s only 23 freaking years old. Like i said before, he also scored 27 points last year while having the highest ‘qualcomp’ in the league, pretty impressive for a ‘shutdown defenseman’ as young as he is.
If we made that trade for Marc Staal, and signed Willie Mitchell on a cheap contract filled with bonuses we would be cup favorites for sure, and we would WIN imo.
We don’t really have any serious problems with scoring depth, unless you compare us to chicago’s team last year. Then again every team has problems with scoring AND defensive depth in comparison to Chicago’s team last year.
does Staal have to be a trade?
can we do an offersheet?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Depending on how much we offer him
It could require a 1st, 2nd AND 3rd rounder (which would be the Rangers compensation if we offered $6M or more). Anything less than that and the Rangers simply match it.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Arbiter sided with the NHL
I’m surprised actually.
Kovy is a free agent again.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
I bet you he still signs with NJ
I think he’s made it fairly clear that jhe doesn’t want to go to LA, he’ll just have top work something more reasonable out with the Devils.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Aug 9, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
UGH
ANOTHER drama filled month about it? I’d like to see him go to the KHL if this keeps up.
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Aug 9, 2010 9:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Two interesting discussions in this thread which I enjoyed very much
I was, and still am, in the group that consider Mitchell to be the best option the Sharks have in plugging the defensive holes that they most definitely have, although I thank Khaaz for bringing Staal to my attention at how the Sharks could theoretically take a stab at that guy for what it’s worth. (Part of the reason why I like this site so much is because the fan analysis tends to be alot better than alot of stuff you’d read on team sites and talk radio)
However, as Big Z countered wonderfully, giving up Couture, Mitchell and potential picks leave the Sharks a little too vulnerable for most of us to like. Though Staal will likely develop into a solid and more refined defenseman with years, it just isn’t beneficial to our boys to slam them down the road for the quick payoff. Hmm. Sounds kind of like the question Plank posed in the last update.
From what I saw of this team last season, and it wasn’t much seeing how I’m two times into the future compared to San Jose, the Sharks seemed to get more burned on puck handling and clearing the puck from the zone, i.e. defensive skills. Get a top notch offensive one and maybe a decent second line one to get paired with Vlasic and I think the team can run with the depleted Hawks and those rising Kings and Coyotes.
By the way, I know the Vancouver commenter said Luongo is a top notch goalie and yet him get made a fool two years in a row, even by a team who was supposed to have better defenders than the Sharks.
Waiting for the June when the 'San Jose Sharks' become the 'Stanley Cup Sharks.'
by SharkFanInHawkCountry on Aug 9, 2010 8:31 PM PDT reply actions
See…dude…the Vancouver commentator is me, and that was just bitchy at the end. Like staying in a great movie until the end and hating the ending. Having it ruin what came before.
You made some points, but if you are just blaming the goalie, you don’t understand the team game.
It’s why defensemen are in such demand.
The comment about Luongo could be mirrored in the way Nabby failed in the playoffs.
Luongo was left to try and save the team alone too many times, with defensive breakdowns and breakaways costing the team. With too many PPs and with the guys like Bolland getting under the Sedins’ skin. There was plenty of blame to go around without pillorying the goalie.
Maybe he didn’t have his best season last year, but the fact is, the Hawks had a once in a generation team that could only go for the Cup once. Lots of future stars on EL deals is the way to get a deep team. But don’t forget that the Sharks and Canucks have been too good for too long to go that route. Don’t forget that team was at the bottom of the league for quite a few years.
They won it, but look what happened. All the guys like Keith, Toews and Kane that were on EL deals got paid, and the team lost all its depth. Now they are just another good team. The depth won them the Cup…the same way their depth helped them beat both the Sharks and the Nucks..regardless of what you or me think of how a certain player did.
BTW…not to use them as an excuse, but the Canucks were down several defensemen to injury when they just ran out of gas.
It's pretty easy to take pot-shots at Luongo
I am of the opinion that he’s over-rated. But, he’s only over-rated because I think many in the Canuck fanbase seem to think he’s the love child of John Wayne and Chuck Norris given a mask and a blocker.
Roberto Luongo is a very fine netminder. When he was playing in Florida, making 60 saves a night, he was probably the best in the world. But since coming to Vancouver, playing in that media pressure cooker, donning the C and being serenaded by the absolutely ridiculous cheers of “LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO” everytime he seemingly takes a drink of water, I think he’s taken a step back.
He’s still darned good, and is probably the biggest key to your success (all due respect to the Sedins), but giving him such a bloated contract and so many expectations on his shoulders probably hampers your team. As much as he was left alone (and trust me, Sharks fans know all about leaving a netminder all alone to save your bacon), how much of that is due to his monster contract sucking up cap room? Granted, you had KEY injuries on the back end, but might the team look better if it could pick up some more depth?
You are about to field your best team in years. This coming season will be a big time referendum on Luongo’s contract in my opinion, and possibly on him as a player. If he can put together a deep playoff push behind, what has to be, his best defensive corp outside of his Team Canada stint, then he can erase a lot of the Ro8erto 7uongo jeers that Hawks fans tend to throw at him.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Yep…totally right Elvis…big year.
I don’t understand what you mean about sucking Cap space. His Cap is like 5.3 or .6 or something. Its just the length.
If some wags want to focus on the one year payment of 10 mil this year, that is their prob’.
He knows he has to earn that.
Honestly, I think he comes through. But you are right, it is a watershed year.
Right and I'm not a hardcore puckhead so I can't really argue statistics like the best of them....
But I just find it..ironic, maybe…that Luongo was lauded so much as a great goalie, and I know his GAA would help support that, and yet seemed to get ruffled so easily by Bolland and Byfuglien (sp?) I’m not naive enough to blame the goalie in any situation, because I’m sure his defense let in alot of second chances, but I’m also sure there was a time or two when Luongo probably should’ve made a save or two in a given spot, but that’s neither here nor there. I wouldn’t mind seeing Luongo in teal for a reasonable price only if I knew there were at least 4 decent defenders there to support him. Once again, you need a balanced team, not a team that only excels in one area.
The Canucks are still Cup contenders to the best of my knowledge, as our the Sharks and Hawks I would argue and it should make for an interesting season, depending on if the Hawks and Sharks can add anything to their defensive lines and depth.
And onto the Nabby comment – While I appreciate his service and believe he was a Top 10 goalie for most of his NHL career, he just didn’t seem to come through with alot of clutch performances when it mattered. I’m sure someone can counter this with examples like the 5OT game versus Dallas or another playoff series, but sadly, I just didn’t see enough of it to warrant keeping him around year after year. I think Plank put up a statistic sometime recently where it showed Nabby’s save percentage was almost identical to either Niemi or Niitty in the last year, which just kind of solidified my huntch about him over the last couple years. I think he’s a solid goalie, very capable of Cup glory, but either his offense didn’t come through or his defense failed when it shouldn’t.
Waiting for the June when the 'San Jose Sharks' become the 'Stanley Cup Sharks.'
by SharkFanInHawkCountry on Aug 10, 2010 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Fear The Fin
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Latest Puck Daddy - NHL from Yahoo! Sports
- Devils try to even series with Rangers; watch the ‘Sandley Cup’ get built (Playoff Puck Previews)
- Sean Avery: Not in NHL playoffs, getting a handle on semi-nude modeling (PHOTO)
- No lion: KCBS angers Bailey, LA Kings mascot, after confusion with Slamson, Sacramento Kings mascot
- Ratings down for conference finals; Ted Nugent backs David Booth; NHL 13 teaser (Puck Headlines)
- Chris Chelios and Eddie Vedder form karaoke super-band, sing ‘The Weight’ in Chicago bar (VIDEO)
Latest stories and headlines from NHL.com
- Frattin scores twice, including winner as Marlies defeat Barons 5-3 in Game 3
- Buffalo Sabres give defenceman Alexander Sulzer a one-year deal to dodge free agency
- Sabres sign defenseman Sulzer for one year
- Devils make lineup change for Game 4 vs. Rangers; Jacob Jacobson in, Petr Sykora out
- Josefson replaces Sykora in Devils' lineup Monday
