The Aftermath
by FTF Staff on Sep 2, 2010 3:00 AM PDT
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PrintWith the Sharks official site reporting that Antti Niemi has signed a one year, $2MM contract with the San Jose Sharks, we thought we'd open up a thread to capture the madness that ensues.
It's likely that the Sharks will remain tight lipped about the rest of their plans for the season, even if they do announce the Niemi signing today. That doesn't mean you have to.
In the comments, please give your responses to the three questions we're posing now:
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
As always, we'll be bringing you coverage throughout the day here and on Twitter.
Remember how to breathe...
Go Sharks.
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1. On the ice? I’d say were about the same; but we do have an extra trade chip now which is a good thing.
2. I doubt Greiss really has much value in a trade atm so i’d say he stays a Shark but gets sent to the AHL where he’s given a chance to prove that he’s meant to play in the NHL, and not the AHL.
3. I think it is. Obviously i hope that DW can pull a crazy trade out of his behind for a top pairing defenseman, but i really doubt that happens; although you never know with DW.
One thing that probably shouldn't be overlooked...
DW knows how excited Murray is to play in Sweden and DW even met with Murray’s parents on a trip to Sweden recently. Would he really ship Murray off right before the season starts and dick him out of something he’s been so excited for?
Considering how Murray would likely have to be a part of any trade we make, i don’t see a trade happening until after the season has started.
If he’s gonna trade Murray, I think he’ll just man up and do it, but who knows, maybe he’ll let Murray play in Sweden first. Still, it’s worse, IMHO, to make Murray up and move and resettle in the middle of the season than before.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
He’ll just trade him to Columbus.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I put this in one of the fanposts but..
Huskins, Joslin, + 2nd rounder for Jan Hejda
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.996m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Benn Ferriero ($0.850m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Cameron MacIntyre ($0.600m)
Jamal Mayers ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Jan Hejda ($2.000m)
Jason Demers ($0.543m) / Niclas Wallin ($2.500m)
Jay Leach ($0.500m)
GOALTENDERS
Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m) /Antti Niemi ($2.000m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $327,500
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,577,501; BONUSES: $930,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $752,499
That's a pretty sweet Top 4.
I like it, but I don’t know if Huskins/Joslin and a pick is good enough. They do need some puck movers though…
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 2, 2010 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it could float as we approach the trade deadline
Hejda isn’t worth a 1st in my opinion. But a second and a decent prospect seems like it would be equitable for Columbus. Then again, what do I know.
We have a trade chip that no one (apparently) wants, which can be used until much closer to the deadline, and leaves us exposed on the D.
This year’s Vanc won’t give us a pass on this.
My gut is telling me that it’s part of a bigger deal; with whom, I have no thoughts as of yet, but it must be someone that needs a cheap backup/prospect (G) and a power forward, and would be willing to give us a top 4 (D) in return.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Sep 2, 2010 6:53 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
A sinister plan
I agree with all the posts to the effect that this is part of a larger effort that is still unfolding behind the scenes. something that is coming relatively soon and a really big deal something on the order of the thorton or heatly acquisitions. Just my gut feeling from the moment I heard this I thought there is more to this…
Yayyy I really hope so.
It just wouldn’t make sense to sign Niemi unless he knew he was going to lose a backup goaltender… But it’s also possible we haven’t evaluated the talent properly – if Niemi is much better than we think he is, or Greiss is much worse, this trade would make a lot of sense, and perhaps there won’t be a second move.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
what I think
1)Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
A.
With Niemi, Yes. He’s a proven winner in the “playoffs”. Something Nabokov was not in the “Playoffs”
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
A.
Traded in a package deal perhap for Tomas Kaberle
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
A.
I’d like to see Owen Nolan sign, nick petrecki have a great camp and make the team & Jonathan Cheechoo have a tryout at training camp and sign dirt cheap! (like manny malhotra did last year)
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
A.
Traded in a package deal perhap for Tomas Kaberle
I gotta say as a Leaf fan, Greiss is no sweetener in any deal. We have 5 goalies already in our system (Giggy and Gustavsson in the NHL, Rynnas, Reimer and Scrivens all battling for 2 spots in the AHL)
20 miles to Legoland!
Kaberle > Huskins/Wallin
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
wtf
That is a hell of thing to say. Hard to believe your anything more than an ungrateful little shitstain. really !!!
1) Sort of. Niemi would seem to be an upgrade over Nitty, though I have my doubts. Plus, this does give us an extra piece to trade (Niemi, Nitty, or Greiss) without having to freak out as much about the goalie position.
2) I’d like to think that he gets put in the minors and gets more playing time, but that means that Stalock will have to sit around. Seems to me that DW and the gang have liked what they’ve seen in Stalock and are, effectively, done with Greiss. Which means that at 23 and a minimal cap hit, Greiss proves to be a young talented goalie who we could use as a trade piece.
3)Nope. Hopefully Owen Nolan signs.. that would pretty much right all of the “wrongs” this post season. I’d think that a trade will happen sometime early in the season, and that it’ll probably involve one of our goalies.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Hmm… that would make a lot of sense. If they’re on the Stalock bus, then all they need is a goalie to hold over until Stalock is ready to take over the net. Niitty would be perfect for this – he’s a bit old, but still has a chip in his shoulder – and now Niemi would fit this as well – also with a chip in his shoulder, a short contract to push him through the team quickly and hopefully, for Niemi, onto bigger and better contracts.
Hmm… What I just typed seems to imply that I think that Niemi is going to stay only a year. Idk if that’s true, but I do find the length of the contract very… interesting.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Marginally, but they’re worse than they were last season, when they weren’t good enough, and they’re going to be worse tomorrow than they would have been if they’d saved this cap space and used it on a defenseman, or a forward.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss? Somewhere in the minors, or traded to another team for a 6th round pick. He has no trade value because he hasn’t shown anything, or gotten the opportunity to show anything. All the idiots saying we should trade Greiss for a #2 defenseman need to spend less time listening to their own thoughts, and more time reading what I have to say, quietly, so as to take in the knowledge, the enlightenment.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Doug Wilson already denied to David Pollak that they would sign Owen Nolan, so I’m taking that as a confirmation that they will. But, really, whether it’s Owen Nolan or someone else, we are down Staubitz, Shelly, Malhotra, and Ortmeyer from last season’s bottom six. I have a hard time believing it’s going to be Mayers, Nichol, and four rookies or near rookies. Nichol, for all his heart, is too small and old to really play much at all. Mayers is serviceable. And then we have Mcginn, Couture, Macintyre, Ferriero, Mitchell, and or maybe Wingels. Are those four-five really going to run our penalty kill this season along with Pavelski? Is Couture really going to be the ‘captain’ of the third line next season, taking over from Malhotra? It could actually be just what the doctor ordered, at least on offense. This is looking like the closest Doug Wilson has ever come to emulating Detroit’s bottom line philosophy. The difference is, Doug Wilson is penny pinching on these players, trying to create a poor man’s Detroit 3rd line, or whichever team he’s emulating’s 3rd line, whereas Detroit is paying three quality players on theirs: Hudler, Modano, and Cleary. And that’s the thing. Couture, Mcginn, Macintyre, they’re all very overrated. They may add more offense than last season’s third line, but it’s not like they’re going to add a huge amount. But, sure, it has to potential to be an improvement offensively. But then what happens when they’re playing against Cleary, Modano, and Hudler? There is no leadership on that third line. There is no experience. There are no strong veterans. I mean, physically strong. Couture, Mcginn, Ferriero, these are still young men with developing bodies. Mcginn is the closest to an exception, but overall they are going to have a hell of a time winning board battles, and matching up defensively against the better third lines in the league.
Also, as things stand, our top 4 penalty killers are Pavelski, Mitchell, Mayers, Macintyre, or maybe Mcginn. Sure, you put Marleau with Pavelski on that top PK, it looks much better, but then you have Marleau playing top line minutes 5 on 5, on the #1 powerplay, and on the #1 penalty kill. You can always list Pavelski, Marleau, Thornton, and Clowe as your top four PK, and they are stronger, more experienced, etc, so it looks better, but that’s unrealistic. Realistically, our top 4 is what I listed, Pavelski, Mitchell, Mayers, and Macintyre or someone else. Historically Doug Wilson has liked putting a reliable, strong, experienced defensive forward on that third line, to be the captain of that line and the penalty kill, figuratively, and I expect he’ll do that this season as well.
Although, it’s always possible that man is Mayers. I answered the last question under the assumption that Mayers will play on the fourth line, along with Scott Nichol. But, it’s possible he’s really Malhotra’s replacement, not in position, but Couture moves from 3rd line wing to center, and Mayers takes the wing.
To answer your question completely, this team wasn’t good enough to win the cup last year. They got every single break against an injured Detroit squad, and anyone who’s not wearing teal colored glasses can tell you they probably would have lost that series under any other circumstances. And against Chicago, most things went their way, although nowhere near like against Detroit, and they got swept. They came closer to beating Chicago than i thought they would, but the fact of the matter is they weren’t good enough last season, and the league is always evolving, young prospects are coming up for practically every other team besides the Sharks, young teams like Colorado, L.A, Phoenix, etc are just learning to win more and more, and while other teams are evolving and getting better, the Sharks are a worse team this season. They have no right to win the Cup this year. The cup is supposed to go to the best team, and the Sharks aren’t the best team. They’re not even close. Vancouver, Detroit, Chicago, Washington, Philadelphia, and Boston are all better right now. A team like Colorado, if they continue to improve, have the speed, skill, passing, and finesse to run over the Sharks, when healthy. Next year has 1st round exit written all over it. If the Sharks end up with the 6th seed or lower, which is a possibility if they lose their division to Phoenix or L.A, then there’s a good chance they’ll face either Vancouver, Detroit, or Chicago. If it’s any of those teams, they’re gone in the first round. If they make it out of the 1st, they’re definitely not getting past the second round. This team just has too many problems. Their defense problem is so big we forget the biggest problem year after year in the playoffs is that their forwards can’t score. They need to add a Jiri Hudler or two, and a top 3 defenseman. And they have less than 2 million in cap room right now. That’s why they have no shot. They need too many pieces, that Doug Wilson doesn’t even realize they need, so he won’t even try to go after them, but even if he did go after them, they don’t have the cap room now to get them anyway because of the terrible contracts Doug Wilson has dished out.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 2, 2010 5:48 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with your first two points
But #3 I definitely have a problem with
- This “leadership on the 3rd line” is a new concept that I’ve never heard of, and
hasn’t been a necessary ingredient for success that I’ve seen. It is probably #128 on the list of things needed to win a Stanley Cup. Way behind actual talent on the 3rd line, which leads me to…
- Couture is overrated? I can understand maybe thinking McGinn is, though most probably think he has at most 20 goal potential which is probably a good bullseye if he gets an opportunity. But Couture is easily a top 6 forward for virtually any team in the NHL (after being considered a bust), and should settle in nicely as a 50-65 point player with a good 2 way game.
- The NHL Network is showing replays of the Red Wings- Sharks series. Watching it again, other than the first 30 min of G3, and the first 20 min of G4, the Sharks were consistently the better team. It was close, but not in dispute. The Hawks-Sharks series was closer than RW-Sharks. The breaks? That was a remarkably overpublicized storyline based on a bad call in G1 favor of Seto and then him getting legitimately high sticked 30 seconds later and being called a diver by Babcock to get a 5v3 (despite clearly getting hit in the throat by Filpula). After that, everything was overscrutinized.
- On paper, Vancouver is probably better. Maybe Washington. Other than that, I’d (and most others) would put the Sharks #3 in terms of talent. Boston? Detroit? Good teams, but they have more issues than the Sharks.
Wow, Washington better?
I don’t know about that. I still see the west as the dominant conference. Vancouver probably better? Meh. You might have a better argument there. They brought in some good d-men, but, then again, they lost Mitchell and we’ve heard Bieksa’s name mentioned as trade bait here and there. I also suggested in a previous thread that it’ll be tough to count on Samuellson, Raymond, Burrows and Henrik Sedin to be able to repeat their career years from last year. A number of their guys had stats last season that were far and away better than any previous season. I still think, with few exceptions, the Sharks have lost little ground on their competition.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, it is a maybe
Washington has questions, too, but I think getting knocked out last year in the 1st round was a fluke. Though, really, Pittsburg has gotten a lot better, they are probably in better competition with the Nucks and Sharks for top team.
I’m a huge Luongo supporter, I think he is hands down the best in the league. That makes the Nucks dangerous. But, yeah, I agree that the Sharks have lost less than most of their counterparts.
Luongo is the best Goalie in terms of fantasy hockey...thats about it. Bottom line he is the reason the Nucks fail in the playoffs ever year
Come on, Rook. Show us that million-dollar arm, 'cause I got a good idea about that five-cent head of yours.
Well, I disagree with that assessment, they have done about exactly as well as everyone thought they should. He has had a few bad games at bad times. Just like Alex Rodriguez in baseball, I think talent will eventually win out.
He been in the league for almost 10 years. How much longer is it going to take for his Talent to win out?
Come on, Rook. Show us that million-dollar arm, 'cause I got a good idea about that five-cent head of yours.
by syc on Sep 2, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
agree with you here...
Luongo is a complete disaster come playoff time. It might help him that he’s not the captain anymore. I mean, who likes a captain that complains about how lousy his team is around him, while shaking off the fact he allowed 4, 5, even 7 goals against the Hawks?
He’s the ultimate baby. Although he can be good for stretches of time.
I read with interest, but I couldn’t let all THAT lie Mr. Plane. Sorry. Nothing personal.
A complete disaster come playoff time is an overstatement. But its indicative of the amount of unwarranted flack and hyperbole that seems to come with being one of the best goalies statistically to not win the big prize.
He is Top GAA I think it is with goalies in league history with more than 250 starts. Statistically, since 2002, the only goalie with better overall numbers may be Marty. He won it all. And I think has a slightly better sv %.
He never had a shot to do anything in the playoffs in Vancouver. Has he done what we wanted? No, of course not. Fan demand to finally end the drought ( mainly so we can tell Leaf fans to eff off with the "No Cups jibe and be smug about it when we remind them of 1967…) has put some pretty high expectations on him.
The truth is, mon frere, is that its a team game. Defense and forwards save their goalies on a regular basis. Moving that guy at the right time, instead of pushing him into the goalie. Clearing a rebound. Backchecking. Not allowing high % scoring ops like short handed breakaways.
The Canucks played well at times, and then lost their composure at home last year. It was inexplicable that one of the best home teams in the NHL last year went 0-3 on home ice against the Hawks. But it was understandable in the context of one team being deep and the other down to a couple of AHL callups and depth guys getting Top 4 minutes. Their were only two Top 4 guys left in the end ( not counting Salo trying hard after his injury to his manparts)…and Edler broke his ankle in the last game.
Not excuses. Just reality. Which brings me to the captain thing. I agree in hindsight it might be a good idea to change that. But only because the media are douches and imbeciles sometimes.
They have you convinced with “the fact he allowed 4, 5, even 7 goals against the Hawks?” Fine. But it was the Canucks as a team that allowed all those goals. By this intimation that he is a “captain that complains”, when all he is doing is what a captain is asked to do. Explain what happens.
Because he is a goalie he is crying? No , he is saying “we” all the time. Its the perception and the way it is presented that convinces some that is a negative thing.
I have never heard him " complain about how lousy his team is around him". And I am a pretty avid fan. I have read numerous stories where a news reporter tried to paint it that way though.
Nonetheless, sorry to ramble. Just had to provide a rational counterpoint. I hope. You guys are right. The Canucks are up top in the preseason ranking for a good reason. But it is by no means a certainty.
Sure has us excited in Vancity though!
A must read from Vanity Fair's "Sarah Palin ; the Sound and the Fury by Michael Joseph Gross. No matter your politics...this is no real leader.
( in Wasilla ) Sometimes when she went out in public, people were unkind. Once, while shopping at Target, a man saw Palin and hollered, "Oh my God! It’s Tina Fey! I love Tina Fey!" When other shoppers started laughing, the governor parked her cart, walked out of the store, and drove away.
Welcome to the life of a goalie fan, vancitydan...
…where it’s always your fault for losing, and never the reason you won.
And that’s 100% constant across the league. :-)
(Replace Luongo with Nabby, and , well, you know…)
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Yep…its only at a weekly/monthly rec floor hockey level, but I play goal a bit too.
Its the nature of the position. I thought it would be OK with the whole captain thing…but its the media and some of the fans following them that are the biggest problem with out goalie being captin.
Friggin’ racists!!
LOL
A must read from Vanity Fair's "Sarah Palin ; the Sound and the Fury by Michael Joseph Gross. No matter your politics...this is no real leader.
( in Wasilla ) Sometimes when she went out in public, people were unkind. Once, while shopping at Target, a man saw Palin and hollered, "Oh my God! It’s Tina Fey! I love Tina Fey!" When other shoppers started laughing, the governor parked her cart, walked out of the store, and drove away.
which is why...
I said he’s a complete disaster come PLAYOFF time. Thought I was very specific about that. I’ve seen him flail two years in a row now, rarely, if ever taking any of the responsibility for his team’s performance. As a captain, that’s unconscionable! Losing the “C” might just be the best thing that ever happened to the guy.
and...
I’ve never had my jaw hit the floor by the words of any captain until I heard Luongo complain about his team while praising himself. And I didn’t hear his after-game interviews through a filter, straight from his mouth to my ears. He’s just one of those guys that shouldn’t ever have been given the “C”.
You might disagree, which is perfectly kosher, I’m just glad my captain would never take the angle Lu took.
Just a few active goalies that have better GAA (or tied) with over 250 starts (didn’t check all goalies):
Kiprusoff – 443 starts: 2.44
R. Miller – 328 starts: 2.57
Brodeur – 1063 starts: 2.21
Bryzgalov has 245 starts but is lower than Lu at 2.55
H. Lundqvist – 333 starts 2.33
Nabokov – 553 starts 2.39
Vokoun – 549 starts 2.56
Giguere – 468 starts 2.52
All elite goalies, so I don’t get your point. Also, Florida Panthers.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
I'm responding to VanCity's claim that...
He (Luongo) is Top GAA I think it is with goalies in league history with more than 250 starts.
That’s just not true.
Best G.A.A. among Goalies with 250 (+) Games Played
Top 10 all-Time
1) Alec Connell – 1.91
2) George Hainsworth – 1.93
3) Charlie Gardiner – 2.02
4) Lorne Chabot – 2.03
5) Tiny Thompson – 2.08
6) Dave Kerr – 2.15
7) Dominik Hasek – 2.20
8) Martin Brodeur – 2.21
9) Ken Dryden – 2.21
10) Roy Worters – 2.27
———————————————
Notable Active Goalies
11) Marty Turco – 2.31
14) Henrik Lundqvist – 2.33
18) Evgeni Nabokov – 2.39
19) Manny Legace – 2.41
20) Miikka Kiprusoff – 2.44
21) Cristobal Huet – 2.46
24) Chris Osgood – 2.49
29) Jean-Sebastien Giguere – 2.52
31) Chris Mason – 2.54
33) Ilya Bryzgalov – 2.55
36) Tomas Vokoun – 2.56
38) Roberto Luongo – 2.57
39) Ryan Miller – 2.57
40) Tim Thomas – 2.61
41) Martin Biron – 2.63
One…missed the point entirely. I said that it is a “perception” that he is complaining about his players. You choose to believe the common misconception.
The man has never thrown his players under the bus.EVER. Its just that you choose to perceive it because he is a goalie. WTF else is he supposed to say? We this and that. Its what he is expected to do in the media. Talk about the team.
Whatever. Believe what you will. Its wrong in reality…but whatever.
Two…the numbers are what has been reported widely. I can only assume you have an incomplete list. It is widely reported here in the Province, and elsewhere in stories about this contract kerfuffle that he is where I said. One of the best stats wise in his career.
Again…you obviously don’t like the player. That is fine. I was just challenging the obvious misconception in regards to a captain.
But hey, why let reason and logic mean anything.
Haters gotta hate…!
A must read from Vanity Fair's "Sarah Palin ; the Sound and the Fury by Michael Joseph Gross. No matter your politics...this is no real leader.
According to a source close to Johnston, Levi met with Sarah Palin in June in hopes of burying the hatchet. Palin opened the meeting with two questions: "Are you recording this?" and "Are you wearing a wire?"
one. Perhaps you missed the interview(s) after some of his more brutal performances? I wouldn’t blame you if you turned off the t.v. after some of these games. I do that myself out of frustration/anger/sadness. But the guy made comments that just floored me. I didn’t even know there was a misconception about the guy, but I suppose it just reinforces what I saw.
Statistically, I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but Luongo does not have one of the best GAAs in league history. He's not even in the top 8 from the active list I provided above. Please correct if I'm wrong, as I'm a stat lover.
This all sounds so familiar...
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
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I’m not familiar with how fantasy hockey works but why’s Luongo the best? I’d figure the best would be Brodeur or Nabby since they seem to rack up the most wins.
Save percentage, goals against average, and shutouts count the same as wins, IIRC, and since Luongo puts up good stats, he’s a good fantasy goalie.
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Fools and Sages
Ah ok. I gotta try that out. When does the fantasy league start? I might try to get in on one of the FTF leagues.
No idea. I’m probably not doing one this year since I kind of forgot about mine last year, haha.
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Fools and Sages
But you had an awesome team name!
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Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
…Which I stole from my friend, who stole from an Olympics announcer back in 2006.
American Heroes: Joe Pavelski, Buster Posey, David Backes
Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
top fantasy goalies
Miller, Phoenix goalie, and Anderson from Colorado, were the top three fantasy goalies
I drafted Luongo first overall last season and it was a huge mistake.
Drew Remenda would praise a bottle of child poison if it had a picture of Darryl Sutter on it.
Battle of California
probably did better than me with Tim Thomas and Steve Mason.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions
After the mad rush to pick up the Luongos, Nabbys, and Brodeurs, I quietly grabbed Vokoun. Not good for wins, but that’s only one category.
Maybe I shouldn’t have said that.
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I have a Twitter Thing.
The league I play in counts losses too.
A Vokoun/Lundqvist combo was not as awesome as it should have been. =[
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Bobby Lu Mr. Overrated
The most overrated goalie in the history of the NHL. He wasn’t a good fantasy goalie last year. He was hurt a lot and when he played, he was ok.
Nabby was a better fantasy goalie by far.
Washington is a better team than us right now. Their blueline, although not supurb, is definately better than ours. Especially with the additions from the minors of John Carlson and Karl Alzner. Those two are more than ready for the big time and Carlson is already a top 4 D man who is awesome both offensively and defensively. It helps to have players like that on the cheap. Their scoring depth is ridiculous, and far outclasses ours. And I’d say their goaltending is better too, assuming Varly can stay healthy. He’s a very solid goalie…and Neuvirth has won back to back AHL titles and appears to be ready for a real shot in the NHL.
Yeah, Washington is a very, very good hockey team this year.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions
You speak as if we're dealing with facts,...
so let’s look at an actual fact. Demers had almost double the points of Carlson and Alzner combined last year (granted, he played in more games). You’re making a huge leap if you’re going to go ahead and just assume those two will be impact players for Washington next season and state that the Washington blueline is “definitely better than ours.”
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Alzner’s not a scorer…and both play vastly superior defense than Demers has shown so far.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
The point is
you need to be careful when making blueline comparisons that include kids who aren’t yet established, particularly if you’re going to proclaim that one blueline is “definitely better” than the other. Furthermore, both teams have scoring depth, both teams have world-class goal scorers, both teams have young defensemen that need to establish themselves, and both teams have a great puck-moving defenseman. In the goalie department, comparisons are difficult, but like the move or not, the Sharks now have a cup-winning goalie on their roster. We’re dealing with very similar teams, one of which had a vastly better playoff performance last year. II don’t know how you can declare absolutely that Washington is better than San Jose right now. They’re is something to be said for not being overly optimistic, but I don’t think you give the Sharks enough credit.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The top level scoring is pretty similar, except for Ovechkin, who’s the best player in the world, but Thornton, Heatley, and Marleau are no slouches. Their scoring depth comes from having 3rd and 4th lines that can score in bunches. Overall, Washington had 10 players score 10 or more goals last year, and 7 of those scored over 10, 3 of those over 30, 2 of those over 40, OV had 50. The Sharks were just a step behind that with 9 players at 10 or more goals, but only 5 of those at 20 or more goals, 2 over 30, 1 over 40, and no one approaching 50. Washington is definately a deeper team scoring…whether its close or not.
Their defense is better in general. I’m not a huge +/- fan, but their D men dominated in that stat. And their kids, while I’ll give you that Alzner needs to prove himself still, had a much better AHL career than our kid (Demers is the only kid really being looked at for a blueline spot right now). Carlson had 7 points in 22 games, and also ended up playing significant time on the PK in the playoffs. He is an impact player right now. I’d take Carlson, right now, over every single person on our bluelike outside of Boyle and Vlasic.
And Varlamov has been very solid in the playoffs…his stats are far better than Niemi’s in the postseason. I’d be much more comfortable this coming season with Varly than either Niemi or Niitty.
I’m not saying the Sharks are a bad team. I mean we’re really talking about the difference between #1 and #2 (or 2 and 3, whatever)…but you’re selling the Caps short.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
What does your gut tell you?
In a seven game series, do you take the Sharks or the Caps? We can analyze rosters all day, but, at the end of the day, a good should be more than the sum of its parts. I take the Sharks. Let’s not forget, they had more playoff success against tougher opponents last year than Washington.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
If they were to line up, right now, and play a 7 game series, I’d take the Caps in a heartbeat…but only because I have zero faith in our current goalie/defense lineup to stop their potent offensive attack. I’m not sure we could keep up with the 5-6 goals Washington would score a game against us right now. I hate it, and I wish the Sharks were better on the back end. But it is what it is.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Ahhh…Zero my pessimistic friend.
Good thing they play the games on the ice and not the paper.
;-)
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Eh, I’ve never been one for blind optimism. Doesn’t mean I won’t cheer for the Sharks whole heartedly.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Carlson’s awesome defensively? Not from what I saw in the playoffs at least (although Mike Green gets criticized and deserves it as well).
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by Karina on Sep 2, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Carlson averaged over 3 minutes of PK time a game in the playoffs for Washington and had the third best +/- on the team (I hate +/- as a stat, but it at least shows he wasn’t a sieve). If that’s not being pretty awesome defensively (while he also chipped in 4 points in 7 games against Halak), I’m not sure what is.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
*sticks nose in*
Hello from Washington!
Um, I’d call Sharks / Caps a wash, truthfully. Most of the D had +/- like they did last year because that team just scored in ridiculous amounts. A lot of guys had career years.
Carlson’s a beast, make no mistake. (And the Canadians in the room probably hate his guts for the WJC last year.) Alzner will take time to adjust but is a steady and smart presence on the blueline. The two of them have played together both in DC and in Hershey and seem to have chemistry, but they may not be paired so that they can each be mentored by an older (sic) blueliner.
The thing you have to keep in mind about DC’s blueline is that they’re YOUNG. Their oldest blueliner is 34, and it isn’t close. Only two of their top 6 are over 30. Jeff Schultz and Mike Green are 24. Carlson is 20. Some experience there would go a long way.
I don’t worry about the goaltending as much, though there’s a lot of youth there too – both goalies are just 22. Neuvirth, though, has backstopped two Calder Cup runs and Varlamov has playoff experience.
Offensively, the Caps have a ton of scoring. Their problem at forward right now is finding a defensively-minded center for Semin. There are a few possibilities for the position, but none that overwhelm me with joy. Will they score? Yes. A lot? Yes. But Semin needs someone who will get him the puck and then can get back and cover his ass if he drops it (which happens a lot). The current thought is that Tomas Fleischmann will start at 2C, but either of two prospects could fight for that spot, one Swede by the name of Marcus Johansson and the other a shifty French Canadian kid from Hershey named Mathieu Perreault. Again, more youth.
Their bottom six is solid as a rock. The PK is not a personnel problem so much as it is a system problem – it’s too passive to really be successful and depends on blocking shots instead of harassing and chasing the puck carrier.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
young prospects are coming up for practically every other team besides the Sharks
There is no leadership on that third line. There is no experience. There are no strong veterans.
Wow.
It usually takes most people 2 or 3 posts to contradict themselves, yet you managed to do it in just one! Congratulations!
So, let’s step back for a minute and pretend that there are other Champions to emulate other than Detroit. Anyone remember Anaheim’s third line? I do recall it had a couple of kids by the names of Getzlaf, Perry and Penner. They were young, unproven and inexperienced. They played sheltered minutes and delivered results.
And as far as being overrated? I know Couture lit it up in the AHL, and if you want to dismiss that because it wasn’t high pressure situations, whatever. But he was hardly a liability in the playoffs. He acquited himself very well in the NHL post-season. AGAINST these vaunted Red Wings no less.
The best way to get experience is to get experience.
Detroit and all its strong veterans went out in 5 games. We got some breaks. So did they.
Modano, Hudler, Cleary is certainly a strong line. But it’s a strong line because the guys have been given opportunities and have delivered. Modano is a Hall of Famer at the end of his career, but there was a time any suggestion of Hudler and Cleary being “quality” players would have been laughed at. But they were developed in a strong system. We’ve shown that we’re just as capable of developing young talent.
And, Detroit aside, the trend in the NHL clearly shows youth is served. Detroit has experience on its roster, but it’s median age is one of the highest in the NHL. There’s a reason we beat them. Age catches up to you, and we’re getting younger, and have plenty of skill waiting to be molded.
As for the assertion that the team was not good enough to win the Cup last year, you’re only half right. The team was not good enough to beat Chicago last year. Subtle but important difference.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
The team was not good enough to beat Chicago last year
One could also argue that Montreal wasn’t good enough to beat Washington last year, but it happened. Playoffs are playoffs. Although Philadelphia put up a hell of a fight, I think the Sharks could have beat them. Good point.
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Montreal was a trap team, a style of play Washington struggled with all year long. Add that to having Halak go hot at the right time and the Washington PP go cold, and that’s what happened, right there.
I was never happier than when Montreal was stupid enough to send Halak to the Blues.
Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
I Freaking love this move!
1. In net only… I like the tandem of Nitty/Niemi. I can finally put that Kiprusoff trade to rest in my mind.
2. I agree with having to trade Greiss for a defenseman like Kaberle, but there will have to be another player we give up as well, like Clowe, then sign Nolan. A Pavs/Seto/Buster line would be sick!
3. I would like to think that Wilson would get his finally roster together before Sweden with a established new defenseman and another depth forward, but if the changes need to come mid-season instead, then so be it.
Overall, this team is monster as it is with loads of talent and its only getting more experienced. I WAS wondering if we would even make the playoffs without Nabby… not anymore!
1) yes better in terms of overall talent level. But it creates more problems because it leaves them worse off in terms of having space for a major D upgrade.
2) I think Greiss gets traded with other players hopefully for a D. Maybe to Montreal in a three way (e3)…!! :/
Probably for a 5th round pick or some shit.
3) tough to say… Probably but I still feel pretty certain we puck up a D at some point. Although I think this means we have to part with someone I won’t want to part with.
Doesn’t that 2.5m to Wallin look like utter crap right now?!
by skilletboy on Sep 2, 2010 6:53 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
this makes me doubt DW.
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Actually, it does the opposite for me.
Either that, or in 6 weeks we find out he’s got MPD.
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the more I think about it
the more I think this is just a long strong of coincidences.
We wanted to go cheap with goal-tending and we wanted it decided b/c the thought of going Greiss/Stalock was too risky. So first day of free-agency we go out and get out cheap goaltender.
Then we focus on beefing up the blueline. he like Hjammer and try to get him thinking that even if we don’t get him at least we put the Hawks in a bad spot. We don’t get him. We continue to search for the answer to our blueline (Willie Mitchell). We don’t get it.
So now we’re basically resigned to the fact that the team we have is what we’ll be starting the season with, but we have some cap room leftover. And look, a goaltender who’s get some playoff experience and is just as good as the one we just signed. Hmmm, we already signed a goaltender, but we can probably get this one for cheap too and we have this cap room that we’re not using.. Oh well, why not?
We sign Niemi.
I don’t think there was a master plan, this is just how things worked out.
What that says about DW and the moves we’ve made this offseason i have no idea…
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah this is what i’ve been thinking as well. It’s the only logical reasoning that explains this move imo. I bet DW just thought that signing Niemi should improve the team, it should give us an extra trade chip, and it shouldn’t hurt our chances of trading for a top pairing defenseman before the deadline – so why not sign him?
Which is why i don’t like how DW is acting like this was all part of the plan because it clearly wasn’t. I guess he can’t just say “Well I wanted to spend more of the owners’ money so i picked up Niemi, even though we didn’t even need him.”
unless there is a plan. just that. maybe he only made it up 2-3 weeks ago, not the beginning of summer. if so, good on DW for being adaptive?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Yeah he’s definitely adapting to the situation we’re now in. He obviously didn’t expect to be in this situation in the beginning of the season. There’s no way his offseason plan was to spend 4.5 million dollars on goaltending.
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Done deal.
This, as they say, should be interesting.
'The good news is, there's a little more room in the penalty box; there's only five Sharks in there now.' -- Randy Hahn, VAN @ SJS 8 April 2010
Wow. Done deal and I’m stunned.
To answer your questions:
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Somewhat, I suppose. Niemi/Nitty is likely better than Nitty/Greiss. Still, I don’t think it’s much better.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
I’m going to assume a trade will be involved somehow. Greiss is in a very tricky position right now.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Not sure. I’m leaning towards that it might be, and the any trades will happen during the season.
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Could argue over that till the cows come home. As I have no cows, I shall leave it alone for now and let the season do what it may.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Trade bait or AHL bound. Clearly I’m not the only person still worried about his ability to be a starter at the NHL level.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Probably not. If it is, it won’t be the Sharks team that finishes the season. You can pretty much count on that.
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That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
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Greiss is on a one way deal. If he’s sent to the AHL, he’s not coming back.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Sep 2, 2010 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions
then my guess is
he’s out
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
"No, That's Not General Malaise, It's NHL Playoff Fever." Real Fake Sports
Holy shit.
That one slipped under my radar.
Look’s like the shuttle driver’s name would have to be Ben Dover.
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speaking hypothetically...
If that’s the case, does that mean we’re more likely to trade him BEFORE sending him down to the AHL? He’ll lose trade value if he can’t be brought up, but I don’t know exactly how these things work, so if someone could please explain :D :D :D
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
1) Yes. I don’t know how much better, but yes. Niemi is more experienced than Greiss and would probably give the team more confidence. However I don’t think that results from Niemi/Niitty would be THAT MUCH better than Niitty/Greiss. And to say what everyone has said a billion times, that 2 million could have been spent better elsewhere.
2) Depends how they value Stalock and Sexsmith. Remember Greiss is only one year older than Stalock, and maybe the Sharks think Greiss could be an NHL goaltender, but just not ready yet. Maybe.
3) Who knows. That’s all I can say.
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by idunno723 on Sep 2, 2010 7:51 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah… after the team saw him play in the WCF, you’d think they’d have some confidence in his ability to play (:
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
or ability to get lucky...
… either way.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
"Antti’s play last season speaks for itself," said Sharks Executive Vice President and General Manager Doug Wilson. "Our goal this summer was to create the best goaltending unit we could and we feel we have successfully done that."
I thought the goal was to pump up the blueline? Doug you still have time to surprise us. All this is really making me lose faith in DW.
That was the public goal.
This is the super-secret one.
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Wow DW...that's just a bold faced lie.
His goal a couple months ago WAS to “allocate less dollars to the goaltending position” and now it’s “to create the best goaltending unit we could”.
I think he's implying that he wanted to create the best unit possible while not exceeding a set dollar limit .
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly I don’t think there’s any reason to infer that from what he said. He’s just trying to spin this move for the media. I guarantee his original plan didn’t involve spending 4.5 million on the goaltending position.
Perhaps not, but if he's at or near his set dollar limit, then I'm sure he's not losing sleep.
Let’s say he was prepared to go as high as 3M/yr if he had to for the goalie he really wanted. Add to that .5M/yr for the backup, and he’s only exceeded his limit by 1M. Anyway, I’m just thinking hypothetically.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 2, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s just lucky he’s not GM in a market with a columnist who knows more about hockey than Kawakami.
by Timorous Me on Sep 2, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Or Ratto for that matter:)
The dude abides
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"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
Do not get me started.
I just thank god fro Brodie and Pollak.
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er..."for"
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
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I dont see why they cant put Pollack on instead of George wendt ratto?Is it because he works for the Merc?
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
Might be competing sources. Plus Pollak isn't really a radio/TV guy.
Cool guy, though. I met him on Tuesday. Thanked him for his help in getting the Farewell Blocker to Nabby.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Honestly do you think ratto is? I know Im not supposed to get you started,but I think David can do a better job.IMHO
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
Hahaha.. no worries.
DP’s a great guy, but when you meet him, you’d understand. Just not the TV type.
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Thomas Greiss will be traded. This will happen either before training camp for prospects or late draft picks or in a package later before the Trade deadline. I think it is more likely he is traded to someone for cheap. I think that this is how the team will start, but based on goalie performance and the lack of defense we will see Wilson make a trade before the Trade Deadline… My guess in November or December. This team is in dire need of Defense and will have to make something happen sooner than later for team chemistry on the back-end up to make it somewhere in the playoffs again.
by Timothy Graveline on Sep 2, 2010 7:59 AM PDT reply actions
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
The Sharks are better today than they were yesterday. Niemi in the pipes gives DW the opportunity to breathe a bit easier with his D situation. With Niemi we get a known quantity between the pipes and another ring holder in the locker room.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Greiss gets sent back to Worcester. DW has talked about trading for missing pieces at the Deadline. I would not be surprised to see Greiss and a draft pick or two go at the deadline for some bolstering of the blue line. Like him or not, there are reasons for both, but Wallin was a good acquisition at the deadline last year. Though with Niemi for one year, I wouldn’t be surprised if Niemi got traded at the deadline either. IT really depends on how much or how well Nitty steps up to the challenge.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
This is the team we will see in Stockholm. It will not be the team we see going into the playoffs. My guess is that Niemi or Greiss will be traded. Clowe and Murray could also be really good on the block as well. With Thornton looking to sign on for another stint, and a couple of others looking at free agency, the budget is going to be a bit thin.
by Lunchbox Defensemen on Sep 2, 2010 8:05 AM PDT reply actions
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
I honestly think they’re about the same, but now with less cap space and an absurd amount of depth in net. We can’t definitively rule Niemi as being better or worse than Nitty, because there are too many outlying factors that make it difficult to really figure out how good Niemi is. The most notable factor being Chicago’s defensive acumen of last season, and how they allowed the fewest shots on goal. That said, there’s no way to determine, without a doubt, that Niemi’s 7 shutouts were thanks to the Chicago blueline. Sure, they probably had a lot to do with it, but we can’t know for sure. They may not have allowed a ton of shots, but Niemi certainly faced plenty of quality scoring chances all season. I guess my point is that Niemi’s an enigma of sorts, and it’s hard to gauge how he’ll fare in a new system, with new teammates, fans, and coaches.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
One-way contract, so he’s gone. My guess is he’ll be packaged up and sent off as part of a trade, along with a few other pieces that have been discussed almost constantly this offseason.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)? I think the aforementioned trade involving Greiss and others happens before the season begins, without a doubt.
..:Fear The Fin:..
) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
I would have to say no simply because Niemi’s numbers don’t impress me at all, He got hot at the right time with a stellar defence in front of him. He is not that player that puts us over and unfortunately I don’t think blake was either we need a true shut down defence men and with this signing I would imagine one of them’s gotta go.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Tuck this kid in the minors and call it a day I’m sorry but unfortunately I don’t see any potential here.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
I certainly hope not, But I cant predict the future so we’ll see..
Does anyone find it ironic that niemi is signed and jamison “excuses” himself?
Perhaps a disagreement of sorts?
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
In Goal Yes, Niemi despite the fact he is a human rebound machine has hoisted the Stanley Cup and was lights out against San Jose in the Conference Finals. I like the idea Nitty/Niemi combo but at the price tag of all 3 I miss Nabby. To be clear I was all for moving on from Nabby because it was supposed to build our defense the fans accepted it, that was our end of the bargain, where is our defense?
Overall No, our defense has been the big need for this team for ever and without Rob Blake it is worse then last year and not to sound like a broken record but if Niemi throws all those rebounds into the slot like he did in the finals we are in serious trouble.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
This is the million dollar question. I don’t think that Greiss has anything to prove at the AHL level and would only take time away Stalock and Sexsmith who should be looking for a bounce back year so unless the loan Greiss to somewhere in Europe he has to be the odd man out I just don’t know what you get in return for him, Has anyone seen Greiss skate recently? Makes me wonder if he could be hurt as well since Stalock would be better served getting starts in the minors.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Probably, I don’t know what kind of return you can get for Greiss and I don’t know what other trading partner you could find that needs a #2 or 3 goalie that would address one of our needs unless we send him off for a 4th round pick and prey we don’t meet him in the playoffs this year.
Overall the move bugs me so today I’ll complain tomorrow hes on the team so I’ll have his back for better or worse.
Who’s gonna finish this off? I am going Boyle. - FML! No more OT Predictions from me!
1. The Sharks are slightly better than yesterday, just not $1.5M worth ($2M – 0.5M), especially when that $1.5M could have been added to the $1.6M cap room to get a $3M blueliner (Mara?). Niemi is marginally better than Nitty, if only for the proven playoff experience. They’ll likely be very similar in the regular season.
2. Greiss is probably hating DW right about now. He thought that shipping Nabby would be his shot at #1, and now he’s lost a spot from last year to #3. I can’t imagine that his state of mind would be anything but horribly negative.
3. This will likely be the group that starts the season. Pre-season injuries might be the determining factor, especially for goalies. They may make a Jay Leach-type deal with little or no impact except for those early season back-to-back games or 3-games-in-4-nights.
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
I still don’t believe that this was DW’s first priority. He got Nitty, and seemed pretty content. Then he went about trying to get a D-man. I guess having two (more) proven goalies isn’t necessarily a bad thing… but it does seem quite like a non-DW move.
The guy is a genius though.. so he probably knows something that we don’t.
Nashty...
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1) Yes. I don’t believe the Sharks would make a move unless they feel it was to improve themselves.
2) I don’t know. Either way, I don’t see the Sharks having a 3-way battle for who starts. I think he’ll be the odd man out – either by trade or demoted down.
3) Yeah. I have a feeling it might be.
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
My answers:
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Who knows
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Don’t care
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm
Maybe
you forgot
Sea Cucumber
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
"No, That's Not General Malaise, It's NHL Playoff Fever." Real Fake Sports
1) Worse. Niemi is streaky, Niitymaki is streaky. Our golden goalie prospects atrophy in the AHL for another season, and we have no cap space to fix our anemic blueline.
2) Has to be traded. Surely someone needs an experienced bench door operator. It’s too bad though, there were some real bright spots in his play last season.
3) Greiss + Prospect trade. Cheap veteran/tryout signing. Defense upgrade prior to trade deadline.
1) No. Niemi is overrated and had massive stat inflation from playing behind Keith, Seabrook, etc. Watching him during the regular season, its easy to see how he got those 7 shutouts. Granted, he stole some games in the playoffs, but I was not impressed with him during the regular season.
2) Griess is history
3) Unfortunately, yes. DW has been working his ass off for defensemen and unless Griess turns out to be a good bargaining chip, this could be a our roster for a while
"Everybody had a part in this. As you can see, our fans love this. And we love them. And bring on the next team." -Joe Thornton
by waive kent huskins on Sep 2, 2010 9:07 AM PDT reply actions
1) Obviously they’re better. They didn’t lose anything other than cap space and added another player. Unless somehow Niemi’s presence makes all the other players worse magically, I don’t see how anyone can make the argument that adding a player without losing any makes a team worse. We have one more weapon at our disposal.
2. Who knows? Trade him? Who would want him? Waive him? Sit him in the press box?
3. Probably. Can’t trade Nitty or Niemi for a while. Greiss is not a trade chip and if we were gonna do something about the blueline we would have done it already.
Despite what I’ve said, I do not like this move at all. I have never liked Niemi and do not think he’s that great of a goaltender. I don’t see the sense in letting Nabby walk and sign for $4 M in the KHL and then allocating $4 to 2 other goaltenders.
I was kind of excited to see Nitty play.
The only bright side is that Niemi is now officially my scapegoat. I’ve warmed to Huskins so now I have someone else to yell at and blame.
Niemi is a bum.
All that being said, if he somehow wins the Vezina and leads us to win the SCF, then I’ll eat my words. But he will have to prove to me that his addition was one of the deciding factors in doing so.
This move really made me doubt DW.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
You can in fact be worse off by adding a player, and not in the magical power draining you explain. If his play is at or worse than Greiss, then the team is worse off. Why? Because we essentially had someone to fill that role already, and now have someone who will not play. That is a waste of talent, waste of time, and most importantly a waste of cap flexibility for signings at the deadline.
Basically think of it this way, if DW “signed” a new mascot that was to take from the player cap, we would STILL be where we are with our talent pool, but lose out on money able to sign others. That makes us weaker. The lack of available resources is one of your biggest assets, its important to protect your assets not to squander them on someone who possibly wouldn’t even play.
Thats all a big assumption on Niemi being “only as good as Greiss” a big if.
I’m not sure if they’re better either, I don’t like the signing because I don’t like Niemi, but alas it is what it is. We shall see how the season goes.
by animadiversion on Sep 2, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
The question was not whether we were in a better position but if we were better, which I took to mean skill and talent and available weapons. As I said, i don’t like this move b/c it puts us in an awkward, most likely weaker position regarding the cap and roster space, BUT the team is stronger than it was yesterday simply because we added to it without taking anything away (yet).
Right now, Greiss is still on the team so anything Greiss had to add he still has to offer. Niemi simply adds another option. There’s no rule against having 3 goalies on the roster.
However, down the line I think this move will hinder our ability to significantly improve the team. We’ll see though.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
That argument is purely semantics, saying we haven’t detracted anything yet is a ludicrous thought. Of course we will be detracting something. The effects this signing will have will MOST LIKELY be negative, meaning we will end up with a lower net pool of talent. Thus making us weaker. You can look at it in a microcosm all you want. Doesn’t make it real or true. This signing was not done in a vacuum. There will be other trades as a result, and those trades mean we’re probably losing something with significant upside to counter this trade.
If we have to give up Clowe to get a D-man, then we’ve lost a top 6 forward. Even will all those people who dislike Clowe for his inconsistency, hes a top 6 man for sure. He has the skill set, just needs more practice honing. Now NOT signing Niemi means we might be able to get away with prospects and picks for a good D-man. But with this signing we will have to shed cap space as well.
Ultimately, putting us at a disadvantage. Again, not sure how Niemi or even Wallin will look this season, so we’ll see…
by animadiversion on Sep 2, 2010 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
You’re making tons of assumptions.
We were always going to lose something significant in a trade for a top D-man. Thinking we could get a significant improvement on D while giving up peanuts in return is naive.
Niemi’s extra $2M does not have much of an impact in the amount of cap space we can pick up because you can be sure that a sizable amount would have been leaving in any deal we made.
Other than that you’re basically rewording what I’m saying. I DO NOT like the deal, I think that down the line it WILL WEAKEN us. Right now though it does make us SLIGHTLY stronger in goal. I personally don’t think it’s worth it but we won’t know for a while.
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
No. I’m NOT making assumptions thats the thing. Come later in the year when some teams are tanking and starting to realize its time for rebuild mode, we send prospects and picks to pick up one of their veteran D-men. This happens ALL THE TIME. Losing the cap space significantly hinders this. Having 3.5m to sign a top 4 guy is reasonable, there are many out there. Many on teams that might/will probably end up going into rebuild mode. Why keep a veteran when you’re in rebuild mode. Thats moronic and wrong. Thats when you get them for peanuts, or what seem like peanuts because you never know how prospects will turn out.
And it does NOT make us stronger in goal. How is having more people make us stronger, we can’t play more than one of them at a time. We are not sure that Niemi will put up even decent numbers without that D in front of him. That remains to be seen, but definitely does not make us strong. At best this was a side-grade, with a future certain downgrade.
by animadiversion on Sep 2, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Yea it happens all the time for D-men like Huskins and Wallin. Clearly those moves have worked out for us.
The kind of player we NEED will NOT be had for picks and prospects.
(also, I’m pretty sure that’s the definition of assumption, how’s that for arguing semantics?)
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions
No, good defenders (top 4 defenders) are moved quite often. Simply because we haven’t capitalized doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. And pretending it wont and can’t happen is like sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring what doesn’t agree with your preconceived notions. Teams will not live up to their own PR and will be tanking, and will then go into rebuild mode. Not every team can pull a Phoenix and have a great year, they’re more likely to go through Toronto’s process.
What YOU’RE doing is assuming, I made no assumptions, simply stating that this signing limits our mobility and freedom to sign others. If you honestly think Niemi is a great goalie then I could understand your argument. However, if you thought that I would stop responding to you because you just dont know hockey then.
by animadiversion on Sep 2, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
Wallin and Huskins are the type of quality of d-man you will get for picks and prospects. They are not top 3 d-man, which is what we are after. You are ASSUMING such top d-men can be had for picks and prospects. While it might be an assumption of mine that they can’t be, history still tends to agree with me. Give me an example of a deadline trade where the type of player we are after was had in exchange for purely picks and prospects and no roster spots.
We will need to move a roster player to get the kind of d-man we want (not to mention the fact that we already have 7 d-men so someone would have to leave anyway).
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
You have to realize that just because a team is in “rebuild mode” doesn’t mean they only want picks and prospects in return. Young proven NHL talent is much more desirable, such as Clowe, Setoguchi, or Couture.
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I will gladly look those D men up for you, and its not an assumption ITS BEEN DONE. Which is what you don’t seem to grasp. And depending the level of rebuild mode they are going into, they may not want those young talents because it wont coincide with their own developing talent coming from being atrocious.
Case in point look at the blackhawks a few years ago, they were taking all the top talent and picks they could get while shedding anyone with a modicum of value to stack up for when their picks would blossom and they could win the cup.
I’m going to bed now, but I will look those up later tomorrow
by animadiversion on Sep 3, 2010 1:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Just because something has happened before doesn’t mean expecting it to happen again isn’t an assumption. There are varying degrees of assumption, however, such as my assumption that the sun will rise tomorrow or the assumption that it will snow in San Jose this winter because it has before in the past.
At best the assumption that we can get a quality top 3 d-man with no cap space going the other way is like assuming Joe Thornton will win the Hart trophy this year. It’s happened before and it could happen again, but realistically it’s just wishful thinking.
I know what you’re talking about HAS happened before (Larry Murphy to the Red Wings in 97), but it’s not something that regularly happens or you should come to expect. It certainly doesn’t happen every year.
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by PNK on Sep 3, 2010 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Of course there are varying degrees of assumptions, pretending there are not is childish and unintelligent. At the same time, using that as an main part of an argument weakens and often nullifies your argument.
The proof that it happens means it could happen. This year there will be A LOT of free agent defensemen (lots of good ones too). If a team is tanking that has one or more of these free agents, they WILL shed them. It makes NO SENSE to extend a contract when you KNOW youre going into a rebuild.
And I wasn’t claiming we would lose no players and only cap space and picks but that would be bulk of what we would be losing, sure we might add in another player but thats not why the trade happens. I’m sure it was lukowitch that made us excited about the boyle trade…oh wait…My point was, with that much cap space, we wouldnt have to jettison someone USEFUL to us. The only people with contracts big enough to make a difference in having the space for a new top4 d man are useful and being paid respectively; THAT is the crux of the matter.
by animadiversion on Sep 3, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
We were always going to have to trade away something useful to get the return we want. It’s like all the people suggesting we just trade away Huskins to get the D-man we want. If we don’t want him, why would anyone else?
But like you said, teams do shed players at the trade deadline. However, we won’t be the only team looking to bolster our blueline at the deadline, that means we’ll have to make a competitive offer. Offering something like Mitchell + picks + Ferriero isn’t going to get us much. You can’t just offer peanuts and expect something great in return, it doesn’t work that way.
Just curiously though, which defensemen do you have in mind that you think we’ll be able to get for picks, prospects, and maybe a cheap 3rd/4th liner?
To be honest though, I’m not even sure why we’re arguing. I stated from the beginning that I don’t like the Niemi deal.
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by PNK on Sep 3, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think we’re really arguing if this was a good signing or not. I think its mostly the fact that you think we’re better off with Niemi then the Cap space, I say we’re better off with the cap space.
As for who I would be looking to sign, its all dependent on whats going on come November and December. There are going to be a A FEW teams looking to bolster Defense, at the same time a few looking to bolster Offense. You can’t think a team like LA or Van will be looking to bolster D do you? Theres no need.
As for Mitchell, Ferriro and prospects, I know there are a few teams that would love to have Ferriro and our first and secound picks.
by animadiversion on Sep 4, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I could make a long list, but depending on what happens some of them will be nothing but pipedreams. And others that I don’t consider would be available. Its not feasible to guess whats going to be there in the future.
by animadiversion on Sep 5, 2010 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
#4 How excited are you for the 4 Blackhawks games?
A. Way more excited. This rivalry could get nasty. I love everything about it. I don’t think Niemi makes the Sharks better, but it makes 4 games a year a hell of a lot more interesting.
"I was right and you were wrong." - Ray Fosse
Mark the calendar....11/24/10
The playoff series heightened the rivalry and this signing plus the Hjammer offersheet only adds fuel to the fire. I will be very interested to see who gets the majority of the starts and how Niemi handles not having the best D corp in the league in front of him night in night out. This is the best move Niemi could make after he/his agent overestimated the goalie market this off-season and he walked away from a similar pay, longer term deal with the Hawks. Looking in from the outside I would think DW has an idea of how to get another Dman but it will probably be somewhere near the deadline and not before or in the early stages of the season.
Either way, training camp can’t get here soon enough.
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I have tickets to that game
unfortunately my family decided to go out of town for Thanksgiving so I have to sell them… :(
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by PNK on Sep 2, 2010 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
It's official...
Just got a text from the Sharks. They have officially signed Antti Niemi. One year 2M$ contract.
Somewhere in the world, Nitty and Greiss just dropped an f bomb.
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by AmazinglyGraceless on Sep 2, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions
1) I think so. Greiss put up his .912 SV% against PHI (when they were bad), NAS x2, PHO x2, OTT, EDM, LA, COL, FLA, COL, and DAL. The soft underbelly of the league for the most part. On the other hand, Niemi turned what should have been a 7 game series between the two best teams in the league into a sweep. He was helped by his defense, sure. But he saved their season (cause even with that awesome D Huet was still sporting an .895 SV%). In other words, THE HAWKS DO NOT WIN THE CUP WITHOUT NIEMI. And actually, I think the Sharks D is very good at clearing rebounds. How many goals were scored on Nabokov off rebounds in the playoffs? Not many (unless you count rebounds off his own defensemen).
2) But… Greiss should have been given a shot by now. But it is clear that TMac had no confidence in him. He has enough talent to be part of a trade package, maybe to the Islanders when Roloson or Dipietro get hurt. 500k with that upside is worth something I would think.
3) Yes. But it will not be the same team after the trade deadline. The Sharks will decide between Niemi and Nitty, trade the other to a Philly or some team with a hurt goalie but is making a run, and then trade for Robyn Regehr or Chris Phillips. The Sharks will make the conference finals against Vancouver after knocking out Chicago in the first round, who squeaked in as the 8 seed because they lost a Dman to injury for 3 months. I won’t prognosticate further…
Go Sharks
How many goals were scored on Nabokov off rebounds in the playoffs?
Nabby tended to hold onto the puck more. Keep that in mind as well.
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I think the point he’s (she?) trying to make is that the series against Colorado was like pinball. I remember at least one puck off Murray’s skate that went in, and wasn’t there one that ricocheted off Blake’s ass, too? Of course, there was the Boyle … uh, play. Nabby is smart enough to know when it’s okay to take a risk and play out of position. I can’t recall that happening in the playoffs.
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I shouldn't call Phoenix the soft underbelly
Maybe the soft offensive underbelly, which is more important in this case anyways.
1. Yes. Our overall goalie talent just got better. I can see the two Fins pushing each other in a kind of 1a/1b situation (who’s a and b doesn’t really matter and will be determined on the ice). I don’t think Greiss ever adds that kind of dynamic. I’ve seen enough to see he’s nothing special. Clearly, the Sharks have seen enough to determine that.
2. He won’t be with the Sharks and has no trade value. AHL? Europe?
3. Probably. I think Doug will make a move before the deadline, but for now this is pretty much the team we have. Unfortunately, I don’t think the team is as good as it was last year. Our blueline is weaker, as is our third line without Malhotra (I think we’re going to miss him a lot more than we realize), and I’d feel better with Nabokov in net than what we have now.
Some of what I say may not sit well...
…so, I’m going to preface my comments accordingly.
Four months ago, just after our loss to Chicago, there was a ton of talk about D. I know I don’t have to hide my thoughts on netminding—I thought Nabokov had a Herculean task—having to compensate for players all of us could clearly see were not 100%. If we were to trade our new tandem for the players in that series I’m of the opinion we would have been scorched. Because rather than having deficiencies in scoring depth and D, we’d also have netminders that were not posting the numbers that would help make up for those holes. Jon S. and I saw this one eye-to-eye.
A large part of Chicago’’s sucess was the fact that they had two exceptional D-men in front of a quick blocker. He’d bouce, they’d clear. That simple.
That said, here are my answers:
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
No. We lost Blake and Malhotra and gave up our regular season superstar goalie. So, we’ve given up scoring depth and last line of defense. And, since both Niemi and Nitty can’t play the net at once, we’ve lost in (G).
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
At best, he goes down to AHL, worst we lose him in trade (more likely, as do we really want to screw our hottest AHL prospects?) I Feel bad for Greiss. He’s never really had a chance to shine. I do hope that whatever happens, it gives him more ice time.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm?
Possible, but unlikely. Really. DW isn’t stupid. He knew h was blowing his cap on Niemi, and there has to be a reason. My thinking is he ants a stronger tandem in order to sweeten the next deal with a cheap, talented second Goaltender—and Greiss is just that. The real question we should probably be asking here (as I said above) is: Who needs a Cheap goalie and a top forward that can give up a Defenseman?
I’d love to think that DW was devious enough to get a second shot at HJammer (even Turco needs a backup), but I doubt it would be a Western Conference team. It’ll be in the East, where the downside risk for both teams is mitigated by the separation of conferences.
And while Buttercup* may sometimes rub people the wrong way, he does bring up very valid points. Points I’ve been harping on since game 1 of the WCF. We need top 4 D, yes, but we also need depth. If we have to trade Clowe to get it, it really means that we need to sign Nolan (or a Nolan-like player) back as well.
The real issue here is that great analogy Elvis has: you can ADD with cap, or you can ADD by SUBTRACTION. We’re now in a position where we MUST add by subtraction. That’s one corner I refuse to believe DW would paint himself into without an exit plan.
IMO.
*Yes, I’m ribbing you.
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Well we’re past the point of being able to add a top defenseman with cap, so DW found another way to “ADD with cap” when he acquired Niemi. Hopefully adding Niemi will give us more to work with when we’re adding by subtraction later in the season.
Oh and i think question number one was meant literally, are we better today (post-niemi trade) than we were yesterday (pre niemi trade)?
I don’t think anyone could even argue that our team has been upgraded from last season.
Yeah, I know...I read the longer-picture version.
Point being today should really be a compared to last season, as that’s how success will be measured.
Yeah, Heater and Wallin will now be healthy, and that may boost our strength a little bit, but Manny and Blake are gone, and no suitable replacement has been signed for either role. I believe that Nabby was far more equipped to mitigate shortcomings due to teammate injuries/deficciencies than Nitty -Niemi.
Again, I’m not slamming them as goaltenders, but I think even they would agree that Nabokov was the Jedi in the rink.
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Well, count me in the camp that thought Manny became quite overrated
Good solid player, but his defense took a step back last year, particularly in the playoffs, and his offense vanished in prime time. Faceoffs are incredibly overrated. I think Vancouver will regret that contract quite soon.
Couture will replace both his offense and defense production plus some.
What you’re saying about Hjammer is interesting, very very interesting. Perhaps there were some back-room conversations before that offer sheet was matched. Of course, still HIGHLY unlikely, I doubt Chicago would want to give away one more piece of their SC team to their WCF rivals. That said, they’re lost a few important forwards (Byfuglien, Versteeg), and may decide they need to buck up in the offensive space. Perhaps if we’re lucky, watching their prospect forwards play in training may make them eager to trade, too.
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they've lost, even
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
1. No. Not in any way, shape, or form. This was a sideways move that took away cap space.
2. He gets traded, thrown in on some trade to get us some defense. But probably not until after the season starts. Until then, he’ll steal starts away from Stalock in the AHL…which probably isn’t a huge deal, as Stalock started a ton last season and could use to lose a few starts to someone else.
3. Probably. I suspect any trade for defense will happen during the season, and I’ll once again get a chance to rant and rave about deadline deals and how I dislike them.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Devils fan here
How about Salvador for Greiss?
Mathew Barnaby to Lyle Odelein: "Cornelius, as we like to call him, gets under your skin. Planet of the Apes. Look at him. Seriously. He looks like Cornelious."
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by RolliePollieKovy on Sep 2, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, we’d have to make another move or add in another piece because that wouldn’t fit under our cap after the Niemi signing. Salvador isn’t bad, but I’m not sure he’s much different than Murray…Stay at home guy, slow but hits, will have trouble with speedy forwards. Although he’d still be an improvement to our top 4 most likely. Interesting idea.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions
They need space for the Kovy-Kovy-Kovy line.
J/J RPK. All in good sport ;-)
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1)I think this is subtraction by addition,makes as much sense as the shake weight.
2)Greiss?I dont think that many people are beating down our doors to get him.Toronto has too many goalies so i dont think he’d be the icing on a deal for Kaberle.I feel bad for Greiss.
3)Most likely.I think it would be a big Mistake to trade Murray because the second we trade him we’d need someone just like him and most guys like that are not the fleetest of foot.Clowe makes himself more likely with his increasing perimeter play-just hope its not to the point where his value has dropped too much to other GM’s.keep Murray that guy scares Iginla.Speaking of Calgary I think Regehr’s salary my be too much.
The dude abides
Soooo...
I wonder if Niemi is the bona fide starter now? Or do you guys think that’ll still be decided at camp?
Camp.
I think that’ll also decide who gets to board the Worcester shuttle.
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by AmazinglyGraceless on Sep 2, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
Camp.
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Verified. Wilson said Camp determines it.
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Cool
That’s assuring. Not sure how happy I’d be if Niemi was anointed the starter. I mean, he only had to beat Cristobal Huet for the job last year.
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
No. The Sharks have not addressed their most pressing need, and instead have created a personnel and salary cap problem at the goaltending position. The Sharks have 3 NHL netminders. Well, okay, maybe 2.5.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
He can’t stay with the organization. Because of UFA signing rules, we CAN NOT move Niemi or Niittymaki until much later in the season. Everyone else in the league is going to know this, and look at Thomas Greiss’s history, and make pretty much the same assessment. He has little to no value and can be treated as such in any trade negotiation. We are moving him from a position of weakness.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
No. We have $1.5Mish in cap space. We’ll do something. And, one or two forwards from Worcester are going to make the team. I don’t think that will be decided before training camp.
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Not sure I'm with you on #2...
Again, that assumes DW went into this blind.
It seems far more likely he has Greiss as part of a bigger move that is TBA.
Or, he’ll ride it out and do another last minute deal with the netminder he doesn’t want in January.
But I like the former far better.
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THat is definitely to be seen
But if something doesn’t happen in the next couple of days, I think its fair to say DW wasted Greiss as an asset.
I'm starting to think that Sharks' goalies have to have a first name that starts with the letter "N"...
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Or cant be American or Francophone,hehe.
The dude abides
by tealkegkilla on Sep 2, 2010 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
maybe Doug Wilson got self conscious about everyone making fun of him for drafting too many Germans
by a10dency2ask on Sep 2, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Do you remember Dean Lombardi’s Finnish fetish?
The dude abides
by tealkegkilla on Sep 2, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Timeline: the mid ’90s
Good news: we got Teemu!
Bad news: Teemu Rihijaarvi!
Timeline: turn of the millenium
Good news: we got the REAL Teemu!
Bad news: he can’t score north of Point Conception!
Timeline: middle of the new decade
Even worse news:Now all of a sudden he lights us up! for the ducks!
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
1. Yes we are better than yesterday.
2. Greiss will go to the AHL and split time with Stalock for half of this season. I don’t like the idea of taking away Alex’s playing time, but competition will make him stronger and we will know more of what we have by mid season.
3. I don’t think this is the team that starts the season in Stockholm, but I don’t think there will be any other FA signings and/or trades. I think in-house options impress and one or more makes the team out of camp.
I didn’t get a chance to post in yesterday’s thread before it blew up so I’ll just add some thoughts here. I think signing Niemi was a good move because we had $3.6M in space left….what is the point in keeping cap space? It makes more sense to me to use that cap on a player that will give you organizational depth and value. You can still make a mid-season move for a player, and depending on how much value Niemi/Nitty create, you may be able to trade for a D-man without giving up Clowe. If we weren’t going to use that cap space on any one else, why not swoop up on a player that can give you value at $2M?
Possible outcomes:
1. Niitty bad, Niemi good – You have a #1 goalie, and see if you can dump Niitty and bring up Greiss
2. Niitty good, Niemi bad – Same as #1, dump Niemi bring up Greiss
3. Niitty bad, Niemi bad – You completely blew it for this season and can call up Greiss to see what you got
4. Niitty good, Niemi good – You’ve created substantial value, you have a #1 and can trade one mid-season for a decent player
3 of 4 are situations I can live with, one is utopian ideal, and one we’re screwed from the get-go.
We just traded who for who?!
- is a very likely situation imo. We have a good team, with skilled forwards who are committed to playing defense. So how bad can we really make a goaltender look? Neither of these guys are TERRIBLE; I’m sure they’ll put up respectable numbers (.900 SV% or better) and in the end we’ll have gained an extra trade chip to be used at the deadline.
As a Hawks fan
I’m marginally curious to see whether Niemi was really good, or it was the D playing in front of him. I’m really hoping it was the D in front of him, as I really don’t want to see this turning into another Ed Belfour/Dominic Hasek situation for the Hawks.
Either way, Niemi is a good guy, and I’m glad he got a contract to play in the NHL this season. Just wish it was in Atlanta.
I'm not superstitious. I'm just a little stitious.
No doubt.
I like the guy. Awesome story, and he seems very down to earth.
I’m holding out for the 3rd piece deal. And Nolan.
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I don't see where Owan Nolan fits in with the Sharks
He’s not remotely fast anymore, and you guys are like the Hawks. Speed kills, and Nolan just doesn’t have the speed anymore.
I'm not superstitious. I'm just a little stitious.
by AirTrafficAJ on Sep 2, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
He doesn't look slow at the practices I've been at this week.
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But i also realize it’s a longshot.
However, see my longer post above. ^
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If the contract is peanuts, and he doesn't fit in
No big loss. It’s why I wish the Hawks had a few extra pennies to throw at Modano before the Scum snapped him up.
I'm not superstitious. I'm just a little stitious.
Way OT
Speed kills, and Nolan just doesn’t have the speed anymore.
But this is exactly what I think when playing the NHL 11 demo. The Hawks fly compared to the Philadelphia Mollasses.
Exactly how long do you have to wait before you can trade a UFA you signed?Is it half season or one whole season?
The dude abides
I'd have to dig, but I believe it's ~ 1/2 the season.
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FYI: it's done to prevent hoarding and short term moves (i.e. gaming the system)
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I figured that was the reason why but I wasnt sure how long you had to hold on to them,many thanks Noctro!:)
The dude abides
by tealkegkilla on Sep 2, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions
Question #2
Greiss is used as makeweight on a Clowe/Kaberle deal. Clowe+Greiss is just less than Kaberle’s cap hit. Toronto can put Greiss on waivers or AHL and that will get them below the cap. That will also still leave us with just over 1.5 million in cap space to sign a 3rd or 4th line guy. In a perfect world, Nolan.
CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR
FORWARDS
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Joe Thornton ($7.200m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Owen Nolan ($1.500m) / Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.996m)
Cameron MacIntyre ($0.600m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Jamal Mayers ($0.600m)
DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Thomas Kaberle ($4.250m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Niclas Wallin ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($0.543m)
Kent Huskins ($1.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m) /Antti Niemi ($2.000m)
CARRY-OVER BONUS PENALTY: $327,500
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $60,052,501; BONUSES: $715,000
CAP SPACE (21-man roster): $62,499
I said this above, but i'll say it again
I gotta say as a Leaf fan, Greiss is no sweetener in any deal. We have 5 goalies already in our system (Giggy and Gustavsson in the NHL, Rynnas, Reimer and Scrivens all battling for 2 spots in the AHL)
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
HAHA good one!
The dude abides
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"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
by tealkegkilla on Sep 2, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
OMFG epic!
And tragic, at the same time :-(
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Nice.
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Battle of California
HUzzah
Another /r/FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU person
by ilooklikeafat16 on Sep 8, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Here is my take.
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Yes. While we sort of know what to expect from Nytti in the regular season, he has zero wins in playoffs and have never started a series. Niemi did and while he wasn’t spectacular, he was good enough to win every series he played in.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Aufedersein. My guess is that he’ll either get traded, or sign elsewhere next season. If I were him, I’d pursue a KHL deal for a year. I think he learned all there was to learn in the AHL.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Yes. Any major signings will either happen in December when teams begin to struggle and ready to change or around trade deadline. Sharks will be at the top of the West regardless.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
Can he do that? (#2)
I was under the impression he was locked down until 27…(?)
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The Sharks goaltending depth is comparable to the Leafs system, as well.
And as everyone knows around here, I’m an ardent fan of the Squirrel. Sending him to the Leafs would be a ridiculous thought, but could also be used to barter with someone else. Strange, however, is the interest Nitty draws for a goalie that really hasn’t done anything.
IMO, Nitty was a stop-gap pickup after the loss of Nabokov. Niemii probably wasn’t even a thought when signing Nitty, so the scenario changes. Niemii and Nitty cost the same, and Greiss is a tad lighter on an already suffocating cap. That being said, I’m thinking Nitty is the odd man out, solely on the notion that nobody thought Niemii would be available for such a low price.
If Wilson plans on a Niemii /Nitty tandem, and no more moves this offseason, not only will I think DW’s lost his mind, but I will mourn the demotion/loss of The Meth Squirrel.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Sep 2, 2010 11:54 AM PDT reply actions
Except we can’t trade Niitty for at least half the season. And Greiss can’t go down without waivers, can he, since he’s on a one way contract?
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
1-way contract has nothing to do with waiver status
it just means he gets paid the same regardless of NHL or AHL.
I’m not sure if he passes the criteria for age / # of years since he first signed his first contract though….
Here is detailed info on waiver status.
20 miles to Legoland!
by nhlcheapshot on Sep 2, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Thx for the waivers link.
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Appears
Looks like Griess signed when he was 19, and played for Worcester. That makes 5 years with only 20 NHL games played. The limit for exemption is 5 years with so few games played. So it appears that Griess would be in his last year of exemption, and could be sent to Worcester without waivers.
I could be wrong about that year of signing, as he was drafted in 2004 but still played in Germany. I can’t seem to find anything on his first signing.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
Ya
that’s why I wasn’t confident saying for sure he didn’t need to pass waivers.
But it definitely has nothing to do with his 1-way deal. One of the biggest misconceptions about contracts. We have NHL10 to thank for that.
20 miles to Legoland!
I will mourn the demotion/loss of The Meth Squirrel.
Agreed, I really wanted to see him get more starts.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 2, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
1) Of course the sharks are better then they were yesterday. Sure they lose 2 million of cap space but your getting a stanley cup goaltender that absolutely stole the series against the sharks for a very reasonable price. The sharks must be thinking that creating a fight for the goal between nit, and niemi is much like montreal with price and halak and even chicago with huet and niemi and then they will go with the hot hand for the playoffs.
2) AHL for this year, and if he does well and if niemi and the sharks do not go far in the playoffs or if niemi isnt the one playing in the playoffs expect greiss to backup nitty for next year as niemi’s deal is only 1 year.
3) This probably will be the sharks team at the beginning of the year except for maybe some minor signings for the bottom 6. However during the deadline even with only 1.5 million available expect DW to trade a Clowe/Murray plus a pick to have around 4 million in capspace and get a defencemen. (I HOPE AT LEAST! )
Oh, and I also forgot to mention.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Sep 2, 2010 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So much wasted potential.
I thought this was the year he was gonna get a fair shot.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Sep 2, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
This year he still may very well get a fair shot…with someone else.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
SOB
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Sep 2, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
just cuz he was good AGAINST the Sharks in the playoffs doesnt mean he will be good playing goalie FOR the Sharks
upgrading the defense should be the #1 priority. we are gonna need to pull off some crazy trades to get what we really need now
Add me to the "Puzzled" pile
Well, we now have two capable goalies. One of those guys better have a career year.
A strange move, DW. I know you like the idea of internal competition raising individual’s play, but I don’t think upgrading our backup goaltending was our primary concern at this point. A defensive forward or better yet a physical yet mobile defenseman would have been better.
Let’s hope Joslin put on 15 pounds of lean muscle this summer.
1.) Yes, they are better because of the experience in net and, god forbid, if Niemi or Nitty gets injured we do not have to rely on a goalie with no time in the big leagues.
2.) For sure sent to the AHL but I think the real question is ‘how long does he stay there before he gets traded?’
3.) No way it stays how it is. DWs priority HAS to be getting an upgrade on the blue line. Compare the last 4 cup winners (Hawks, Pens, Wings and Ducks) defense to ours… there is no comparison at all. I say sacrifice some firepower for a top 3 dman. As much as I hate saying this, Clowe has pretty good trade value so he would be the most logical choice. I would also throw Huskins in that package to drop that bullsh*t contract he was given as well as go with a 2nd to try to sweeten the deal.
So Clowe+Huskins+2nd for a top 3 dman…. DW, make it happen!
by metallicrocker87 on Sep 2, 2010 1:12 PM PDT reply actions
I agree with you on the need for a trade for a top-3 defenseman, but imagine, in that scenario, if you then have Couture on the top 2 lines. Your bottom two lines—a real problem for us in the playoffs—are going to do jack shit and be worse than they have been in years, which is saying something.
This is the corner Wilson has painted himself into.
Fair enough. But I still cant see us finishing(or starting, for that matter) the season with this D. Something needs to change. Even 2 months later, I cannot fathom why Wallin was re-signed for 2.5 mill AAAAAAANNNNNNNDDDDDD a NTC……. In my opinion, that was the worst move made by any team this offseason. My head hurts just thinking about this.
by metallicrocker87 on Sep 2, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
No, the worst move made by any team this offseason was Sather giving Derek Boogard 1.625 million a year for four years
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, that wins. He basically gets $813K per career goal per year, or $116K per career point per year.
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Fools and Sages
Indeed. But it’s not like the Rangers have a realistic shot at the Cup, so I’d say Wallin might be worse in terms of consequences.
Of course this is also like arguing if my cat’s shit smelled worse this morning or last night. Either way, it needs to be put in a bag and taken out to the trash.
Eh, Wallin’s contract is bad, but it’s not THAT bad. 2.5 is a lot, but it’s only one year, and he is a very solid D man. Just not elite, which we need…it’s not like he’s going to be a huge sieve out there…
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
Then let’s just pray the old Swede stays healthy and earns some of that cash money. Our blue line is scant enough as it is.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
For sure. If he’s worth even 1.5 million of his 2.5 million contract, I won’t be as upset. As long as he’s solid defensively and doesn’t die from being old, he could be useful enough.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Sweeten the deal with Joslin.
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
I say keep him until his contract runs out at the end of this year. No team will want him even if he is just an AHL lifer.
by metallicrocker87 on Sep 2, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
1. The sharks are better in goal now but we still need a D man to replace Blake and a PK guy. So overall we are a little better but about the same.
2. As for Griess I feel he is not ready for the NHL yet. He looked questionable in the olympics and ok in the games he played the last 2 yrs when he got to play. Can we send him back to the AHL maybe but what else can he do down there? So it looks like we can trade him in a deal where we can get another piece for our team to make it better.
3. NO it cant be I think Wilson has something cooking to help our D men out. If not look to see at the deadline hopefully we are in a good position for a great playoff run to make a move.
Doug Wilson will be on KNBR 680 @ 2:30
with Fitz
"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob
Well....
That was either a huge fail on either KNBR or DW……..
by metallicrocker87 on Sep 2, 2010 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
as everyone knows the postseason is the only thing that matters. so, with that in mind, this team is more than capable of making the playoffs. however, this team is not ready to do anything when it gets to the playoffs which might be a problem(sarcasm intended) . DW is the shit, so i think everyone needs to calm down and give the guy a break since hes been doing a pretty slam bang job since forever. its pretty much guaranteed that hes going to make another move whether its before the season or not he will get the job done before the deadline. the thing i dont get is that tomas greiss has looked pretty good in almost every game ive seen him in including in the olympics where his best dman was christian erhoff LOL. if stalock is better than greiss than id be cool with moving greiss, but ive never seen him play so i guess what im asking is how good is stalock. the other thing is now maybe we can get a top four dman without the loss of murray/clowe. we can trade one of the goalies and a couple of high picks possibly, maybe, hopefully.
Stalock has been pretty similar to Greiss in terms of AHL statistics. He has room for improvement, for sure.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Alex Stalock is a hero in the making.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IktPqDwmy6E&feature=related
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Wow...
one of those plays he was all the way out to the faceoff dot…!?
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
Keep in mind though, that it was Stalock’s first year playing in the AHL.
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Hence the "in the making" part.
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Right…as I said, room for improvement. Definately not ready for the NHL, though.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 2, 2010 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Goaltending duos new nickame?
Niemitty?
Nittemi?
Anti Nitty?
post ideas below
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Sep 2, 2010 2:28 PM PDT reply actions
Close to one of yours
Antiero Niittiemi
Jon Casey fan since '84
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I have a Twitter Thing.
Really? Do we need the Hockey equivalent of Bennifer? :-)
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I think the more current nomenclature is Brangelina.
Jon Casey fan since '84
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and yes, we do.
I vote Niemaki. Gotta keep the sushi in there.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
I can’t say – they’re probably more secure in that they now have two established NHL goalies, but they lost that potential that Greiss brings. Like, we pretty much know what we get with Niittymaki and Niemi, while Greiss can be a Justin Pogge or Evgeni Nabokov or anyone in between. We’re giving up potential – either way – for stability, and the jury is out on whether or not that means the Sharks have improved.
That, and pre-season predictions generally mean nothing. I mean, who thought Phoenix would have home ice in the first round in the playoffs before last season? Hell, who thought Phoenix would even make the playoffs? Stuff happens.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
I really hope he stays in the system – I have high hopes for him, deservedly or not, and don’t want to see him be a Bryzgalov to our Ducks or Luongo to our Islanders/Panthers. Maybe we’ll roll with a three-headed goalie system, maybe he’ll be in the minors, pushing out Stalock or Sexsmith. Maybe he’ll be loaned to Europe, who knows. I just feel horrible for him, that he finally got out of the shadow of Nabokov only to be pushed out by a pair of Finns. I’m too sentimental, I guess.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
I have no idea. At this point last year, the Sharks had yet to sign Malhotra and trade for Heatley, so we know that DW is not adverse to add players during camp. I could see a trade happening before the season starts, but I’d tentatively put my money on DW waiting until November/December to make another move, barring a collapse of epic proportions.
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Is Sexsmith ready for the AHL?
He did have a nagging injury last year and wound up playing a few games in Kalamazoo. I think the AHL goalie situation is just as interesting as our NHL situation. Realistically you have Stalock, Sexy and maybe even Sateri battling for a spot in Worcester. And you have Greiss, Niemi and Niitty Niitty Bang Bang battling it out in SJ.
For the first time in a long time (10 Years) we have no number 1 goalie! I think this can only be a positive thing for us. Aside from one season, Nabby never had any serious competition, and looking back, his attitude really did reflect that at times. His only motivation was pride. Both Niemi and Niitty have proven that at times they can play above their skill level, and I’m excited to see each goalie prove their worth.
The other positive is that with us now having two ECHL affiliates in Stockton and Kalamazoo, we have a really great system in place to get all of our potential goalies some playing time so that the Sharks can decide what they want to do with the log jam of keepers.
by Morti on Sep 2, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sexsmith is ready for the AHL – the only reason he did play in the ECHL was because of that injury. And then Sateri is probably staying over in Finland, since he’s the starter over there and has a pretty high quality of competition.
So it was pretty much set with Stalock and Sexsmith in the AHL, until DW signed Niemi and threw Greiss into both of the NHL and AHL goalie equations.
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Ok I know this signing has got a lot of people upset
But let’s not go over the edge like the people on MCC and start writing Sharks yaoi fan fiction. If you will excuse me, I need to wash my eyes out with battery acid.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
I can always count on joe for the sunny side.
;-)
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1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
They are a little deeper and likely more secure in goal, but I don’t think we have improved that much. All this deal has done is taken up cap space, as far as I am concerned. We still have a huge need on the blueline.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Unfortunately, I think he is used as a sweetener in a deal to get a defenseman. It doesn’t make much sense for him to split time with Stalock as both of them need the experience.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Hopefully not, but it’s looking more and more likely that it is. I really hope that somehow, someway they acquire a top 4 defenseman before the start of the season.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 2, 2010 3:53 PM PDT reply actions
Why is H wearing 2 pairs of sunglasses?
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lol that was part of the meme that went crazy a while ago probably some inside joke between internet fanatics haha.
This was just the pic that the generator I used had preloaded.
Dude, lemme getchur keys.
Maybe one pair of sunglasses isn't cool enough for him.
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Does this mean we get a name change this year...
…to Fear the Finns?
(OH, COME ON, you KNEW that was coming!)
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Drew Remenda on KNBR....
I wish we had more Sharks radio talk
"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob
It's not the volume.
It’s the QUALITY.
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During the season
Drew’s radio show in Saskatchewan regularly talks sharks as well. But since they moved the air time from 7AM central to 7PM, I think that is no longer the case.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
I think we may need a new rule about the blackhawks logo and that face and logo blurring technology they use on reality TV.
As in we need to use it more. ;-)
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3 KEY ?'s
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday?
Are they better yesterday, no doubt. Are they better than they were last year, not a chance. With the departures of Rob Blake, Manny Malhotra, and Jed Ortmeyer there barely has been any pieces to fill that void. Looks as if Blake is going to be replaced by a player in the system. The loss of Malhotra has not been filled, unless you consider Couture to be his successor, and Jamal Mayers replaced Jed.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss?
Grease is sent to the minors until there is an injury and gets called up from the A, where he will no doubt be the #1 guy, Al Stalock will be #2 and Sexsmith will be cut, traded or demoted. Sexsmith did not show any promise last year in the AHL, he had a bad statistical year as did Stalock if you take away his wins.
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)?
Honestly, I think Doug is going to roll the dice on this team and let the first 20 games dictate where this team is heading and by Nov/December we may see some new faces on the blueline. An inportant, date will be Dec. 1, a day after game 23 vs. Detroit. They will play Vancouver and Chicago in games 19 & 20.
Sexsmith was coming off an injury last year, to be fair.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 2, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Sexsmith was actually regarded as the much better prospect than Stalock before he got hurt last year. I’d hope the Sharks don’t give up on him yet, because he could be very good.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Man, I feel for Tomas Greiss
His comments seemed like he was pretty bummed. Poor kid. If the sharks trade him I hope he gets a fair shake at some real playing time.
by jMoneyBrah on Sep 2, 2010 10:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Dear god why did I read the comments on that thing
I think at the end of the season, it is going to be the Blackhawks kicking themselves for not allowing our boys take Hjallmarson (sp?) and signing Niemi.
Golden!
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
We should get Hjallmarson and Stall.
Aside…
bq. Has it reached the point where he thinks his best opportunity might come in another organization? "I talked with Doug about it," Greiss said. "We’ll see what happens."
Also, based on Niemi’s comments, it sounds like the Sharks pushed hard, not that this just fell into their laps. Gotta think if they were pushing that hard, they had some reason why this would all work out perfectly…
"I thought for me it was really important to get to a really good team and also a really good organization," he said. "They really wanted me there, too, so it wasn’t too hard a decision after all."
Note sure what to make about this piece of the article – seems Niemi really is partial to Fins (ha!).
Though both of San Jose’s new goalies hail from Finland, Niemi (27) said he and Niittymaki (30) don’t really know each other that well. But Wilson made a point of stressing how Niemi wanted to make sure his countryman was looped into the developments as contract talks heated up.
Dan Boyle also seems to think someone is going.
"It’s tough," he said. "I don’t even know the situation as far as who’s staying or who’s going, but you’ve got to do these moves sometimes to make yourself better."
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I am now used to 75% of your comments having the word Staal in them.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
For a while I was momentarily distracted by Mitchell and this lovely video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLbLiGXqHIA
But alas, it didn’t catch.
I also don’t know what else to say during hockey off-season besides what everybody else has already said and repeated seven million times. I figure, if I’m going to repeat myself, let it be original. :D
Also, I randomly post ‘staaaal’ every chance I get.
Though, that comment didn’t say Staal, it said Stall. ;)
Realistically though, I don’t know who we have a chance of trading for, though I figure it’s got to be somebody…
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
haha. this might be true. but i’m right now trying to figure out if joe is making fun of me in a good way, or a bad way…
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Completely neutral statement.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
Stupid move
Lol.
The Sharks will never make it to the finals. Brilliant move, ignore your blue line and hire 3 sub-par goalies. Did anyone look at Niemi’s stats? They were worse then Nabbys last year…Niemi he had a killer defense in front of him, that is no longer the case in SJ…Boyle..who cares… It will be a long and unsatisfying season in San Jose, guaranteed.
Dan Boyle is not amused.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 2, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, hello...
resident cartoonist @CouchTarts Lightning is seven times as hot as the surface of the sun.
That’s still not as hot as Douglas Murray. -mymclife
"No, That's Not General Malaise, It's NHL Playoff Fever." Real Fake Sports
Hear that, everyone? Guaranteed, by someone who just registered today and has two posts.
I guess we should just shut this place down and become, I dunno, Hawks fans or something.
You should
At least you would have a cup…
I think we should be Maple Leafs fans
Because then we would have 13 Cups, the second most in the League!
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EDMUNTON FTW!
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Everyone, you heard the woman (?), we should all be fans of the team that has most recently won the Cup. That’s how you know you’re a real fan, when you jump on the bandwagon. Thanks, Tina, for settings us straight.
Ians right
Anyone that takes a picture with Yanni and wears 80’s glasses probably knows a great deal about hockey. lol.
Btw, I like the Sharks…but these moves are the type of knee jerk reactions that kill this team and its fans.
You do realize that particular picture of Yanni is displayed in the club level at the Tank?
Also: appearances mean squat about how much you know about hockey, or anything in general.
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I’m quite offended. ’80s glasses? These are ’80s glasses:
I save those (and the outfit) for special occasions, thankyouverymuch. The ones in my profile picture are for my apres-hockey go-getter lifestyle.
You win...
Thanks for being a good sport.
"The woman is always right"
I guess this is an exception?
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Sep 2, 2010 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
“So I guess it goes from God,to Jerry,to the cleaners,right Kent?”
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
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--WJC,january 2010
Groan...
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Like I’m seeing a lot of, I’m hoping this is a set-up for something else and not just a move for the sake of a move. I’m not totally sold on Niemi (at least, not any more than I am on Nitty, though willing to give both a chance). However, it should be interesting to see if he and Nitty can push each other.
I feel bad for Griess, though. Here he is, finally looking at a chance to start some NHL games and push for a job, and oops, plans change in a way we all thought wasn’t coming.
Also, it annoys me that the writers who’ve been saying all along that we’re desperate for goalies will use this as evidence they were right. Stalock and Sexsmith get no respect (or acknowledgement) from the media.
Still a bit disapointed with this signing
I was holding out for Uncle Niemi. Auntie Niemi can toss my salad.
I have a feeling Greiss won’t be starting any more than, say, 6 or 7 games next season.
I really don’t get this signing at all. Are Nitty and Niemi gonna duke it out for top-spot?
Gotta admit, I'm a little excited
If he can play like he did in the Playoffs, maybe a tad better, we’ll be fine.
Chris Andersen could be in a porno with his 'stache. Too bad he still wouldn't know how to box out.
Honesty may be the best policy, but it's important to remember that apparently, by elimination, dishonesty is the second-best policy.
Quitter's Proud United Member #11
You mean if he can play like he did in the playoffs against us, right? Because the rest of the playoffs he was mediocre, and in the Finals he was utter crap. I’d hope for better than that out of our goalie.
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
Nooooooooooooo......
…..not the evil empire!
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Awesome!
The more slow, over the hill players Dallas has, the better for us.
I loved Cheechoo when he was here, but he doesn’t have it anymore…a perfect addition for dallas!
Z!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
Cheechoo will score 56 goals now because you said that.
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
You miss Goc? I mean, I get missing Ehrhoff because he all of a sudden learned how to aim and play defense, but Goc I don’t get.
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I’m a huge Goc fan. Look at his stats last year… Very comparable to Malhotra.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Sep 3, 2010 8:19 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah, but Goc wilted under the spotlight of the playoffs… Malhotra seemed to get better.
That is the main difference.
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
How many points did Malhotra have in the playoffs?
1.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Sep 3, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Malhotra was absolutely snakebitten infront of goal
The puck would never sit for him.
To me, the important thing was that he WAS in front of the net, with quality chances. And we’re going to forever rue that he didn’t put them away, but there’s something to be said for being in the right place at the right time.
I think this season with Vancouver will show if he just had back luck or if he really wilted in the spotlight.
My gut tells me it’s the former.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
how many points did Goc have in the playoffs?
1. (an assist with only 13 shots…)
and he was also a -2….
Malhotra wasn’t much better… but he had one goal was only a -1, and had 37 shots…
Malhotra had a 60.7% face off in the PO’s to Goc’s 49%…
Malhotra had 21 htis to Goc’s 11…
There are similarities to some of their numbers but Malhotra was much better in Faceoffs and helped the Sharks PK which ran at 85.3% vs. Nashville’s 77%…
id take Malhotra over Goc on faceoffs alone…
but agreed not at 2.5m….
last year Malhotra made 700k to Goc’s 775k… not a huge difference…
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Goc only played in 1 series as opposed to 3.
Had Goc played in 3, Goc probably would have had more hits and assists, and about as many shots.
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Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
plus my measure of a third line player is less about goals and assists and more about things like faceoffs, hits, pk play, and other intangibles that might not how up the in stats.
Goc never really brought much of that to the Sharks. I always though he was supposed to develop into a scorer since he had the abilites and speed. Malhotra excelled in the role that he fit… Malhotra was 2nd in the entire NHL in faceoffs last playoffs.
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions
oh man do i miss ehrhoff. wouldn’t he be great to have now? love that man.
by a10dency2ask on Sep 3, 2010 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
The morning after it’s official, and I’m even more apathetic than I was yesterday about the signing. I think there’s no question Wilson makes more moves before the season begins – it’s all but written in stone. I’ll save the emotion for when I’m wrong!
..:Fear The Fin:..
can I get a "morning after" pill then?
I’d like to abort this one….
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
Comrie to the Pens
This is the kind of signing the Sharks need to make in the next week or two. Someone capable of hanging offensively on the 2nd or 3rd lines—someone who could make Clowe’s departure for a defenseman less debilitating to our offensive depth.
Problem is, pickings are getting pretty slim at this point. Slava Kozlov, Owen Nolan, Miro Satan, Kyle Wellwood, Bill Guerin, Patrick O’Sullivan?
Diamond in the rough, indeed.
Guerin reportedly was offered a tryout with Philly… I bet he wants to stay in Penn…
I realize this has been beaten to death, but the only way I see Nolan being on this team is if he might be also willing to try-out in camp. It’s a teams market out there right now and these middle ground players aren’t going to get the money they want. Especially when teams can get them into tryout status…
IF Nolan was going to tryout with any team I think it would be SJ becuase he obviously wants to retire here… but I do realize it’s just very unlikely.
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
im not really counting it out, just saying it’s unlikely…
I really think Nolan would be a perfect fit for us right now.
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
Kyle Wellwood is fat.
Slava Kozlov is an interesting name to throw out there. Dude can certainly score. Although he has trouble staying healthy. Won’t happen though, since DW hates Russians.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
you’ve been reading Ivano’s tweets too much dude…..jk
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Kozlov apparently has four tryout offers extended by teams, but he wants an actual contract in place or he’s going to the KHL. If he’d be willing to take one year for $1 million, that seems pretty reasonable and low-risk, considering his injury history. It’d be pretty nice for Couture and McGinn to have someone like that on their 3rd line.
Interesting. I’d sign him for a mil to score on the third line.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 3, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Wouldn't take Guerin
Sharks tried that three years ago; to little success. Guerin is older, slower, and I don’t think he adds anything to the Sharks’ depth-wise. Guerin is a complementary player. He’s had great success with elite centers, but he’s certainly not playing with Jumbo.
But, yeah, Comrie would’ve been a nice pickup for the Sharks. If he can stay injury-free, he should put up 20 goals and 40+ points.
He’s certainly quick enough to stay with Sid.
Of all the choices, I think Kyle Wellwood looks the most attractive on a line with Couture and McGinn. While not the scorer that Nolan is, Wellwood is more versatile.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
by Will Bulldozer on Sep 3, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m there with you on Guerin, although I suppose we could break up the top line and put Guerin out there with Jumbo Joe. Better than putting Mitchell on Joe’s wing…
Maybe Wellwood could find some motivation in his difficulty finding a contract this summer, and that would keep him in good shape. I doubt DW would go for a guy like Wellwood, though, unfortunately. He’s still only 27 and when he was 23 he had 42 points in 48 games with the Leafs, so there is some offensive potential lurking there.
As an aside, doesn't Wellwood like Hamburgers?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
And pizza and tacos and cake and sandwiches and…
"Playing Detroit in the playoffs is like paying your taxes. You either pay now or pay later." - Suisun Dan
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Possible defensemen available via trade
The Kovalchuk deal just got approved, so NJD needs to shed salary. Bryce Salvador is intriguing as is Colin White. Colin white is pretty good so he might be a prime trade target for DW. Since he has pretty good size he could be paired with Vlasic for an effective shutdown pairing. Bryce Salvador seems good too, but I’m not too familiar with the guy to say anything too educated about him. Colin White would definitely help out this defense.
They need cheap players to make up their 23 man roster too
Good job we aren’t overpaying Huskins or Mitchell!
Shit.
Huskins + Mitchell does = Salvador's salary, though.
Not sure if he is what the team needs, but it seems like an interesting option.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 3, 2010 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
NJ needs to shed salary though. Any trade with them would have to have us taking on salary.
But I’d guess NJ would want some combo of picks and prospects.
As with others I don’t know enough about Sakvador to say if we’d like him or not.
I’d take Tallinder or Volchenkov though!! ;)
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 5:41 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
True, but this gives them two roster players.
Huskins for Salvador straight up I think would work with our remaining cap space.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 3, 2010 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions
That deal is a different story.
We give 1.7m and take 2.9m. NJ sheds 1.2m. I’d do that deal just to get rid of Huskins.
Looking at NJ’s numbers they have 7 D signed so they might be looking force cheaper D with experience like a Huskins…
Not a bad idea.
Wonder of they need a German backup goaltender?!??
by skilletboy on Sep 3, 2010 5:48 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
They also have former Shark Rob Davison under contract at $500k, so they could have him as their 6th or 7th defenseman and save money that way (if they got rid of Salvador or White and took on no salary).
Colin White seems to be finally rounding back into form after his eye injury, but he’s not the same player he used to be and both he and Salvador bring so little offense to the table…I don’t know if they’re worthy additions for the Sharks.
I do think DW and Lou have a good relationship, though, so I could see them talking and maybe Lou could convince White to waive his NTC.
It’s not like we need so much offense from the blueline. What the team needs is a stay-at-home defenseman to partner with Vlasic in order to replace Blake. Vlasic needs to step up his offensive game. After spending 2 years with a great all-around defenseman in his twilight years, you’d think he’s ready to take another step in the offensive direction and be that much more of a complete defenseman. Colin White would be awesome to have though. He’s been top 3 in SH TOI for the Devils the past 3 seasons. No reason to believe he’d be any different in San Jose.
Either seems fine
Although Colin White has a NTC, which could make acquiring him problematic.
Savlador has no real offensive upside it seems, but he’d be a reasonable shutdown d-man. I think that’s the role he’s played for the Blues and Devils.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
1. No. Nitty was a fine choice. Doug Wilson shattered any confidence Nitty had in the organization going into the 2010-11 season. I’m an advocate of improving our blue line and have been for several seasons. Niemi is only a name. He is not a solution to the gap in the Sharks D.
2. AHL with the hopes of proving himself.
3. Probably. At this point, the Sharks aren’t in any worse of a position then they were at this time last year. A deep playoff run is more than possible. While I feel our defense could have been improved, we are still a top 10 NHL defense.
Go Sharks
1) Yes. A tandem of a proven SC winning goalie and a steady backup is better than a steady backup and an unproven rookie as the tandem
2) AHL or bust. He’s gone or he gets sent to the AHL. I hope he gets time to play though wherever he goes. He must be feeling terrible
3) Well, I HOPE not but this might just be. DW has said that he WILL get a defenseman. hopefully before camp
Waiting for the cup in San Jose
I never forget a face, but in your case, I'd be glad to make an exception-Groucho Marx
by sanjosesharksfan on Sep 4, 2010 11:49 AM PDT reply actions
Let the competition begin.
1) Are the Sharks better today than they were yesterday? We shall see. Greiss and Niittymaki are pretty good goalies. Greiss hasn’t really been able to show what he can do, while Niittymaki has been with three teams in three year? Flyers, Lightning and now Sharks, while putting up okay numbers, but I know, he hasn’t had a team this talented behind him, well Nabokov did, and… oh, I won’t remind us all. No offense to Nabby, who I loved, but he needed a change of scenery.
2) What happens to Thomas Greiss? I know it might sound crazy with the signing of two goalies for $2 mil a piece, but let him stay and get the chance to be the starter. He has only a slight trade value and releasing him won’t do much good for the team. If Greiss is given the opportunity and actually beats out Niemi and Niittymaki, then trading one of two those guys is suddenly NOT a bad business move, because they were all given a chance.
I was listening to all the “Niittymaki is the starter” talk and felt and still feel that Greiss could easily beat him out. Nothing against Niitty. In fact I thought Letting Greiss and Stalock battle it out might have been the best option. No matter what I hope my Greiss nickmane the “GPS” (German Puck Stopper) catches on!! Or the other one “TomTom” get it? :D
3) Is this the Sharks team that will start the season in Stockholm (i.e., no other free agent signings or trades)? I expect one or two more moves coming. How big? Don’t know but with the limited and tight cap space now, you’d imaging their in the form of a trade or two.
When you compare all three goalies (Niemi, Niittymaki, Greiss) their numbers is almost every category turns out to be pretty even across the board, with Niemi’s getting a little higher rating, but not by much. In fact, they’re all about the same last year as Nabokov. The difference being that Niemi outplayed Nabokov in the WCF. Oh and Niemi has a ring.
It’s sounding more and more like this is the group of forwards we’re going with into the regular season.
This little tidbit does make the Niemi signing more logical if the team didn’t really believe Greiss was capable of playing about 50 percent of the games:
Murray did add that one reason Niemi was so successful in the playoffs may have been the fact he didn’t have a heavy workload during the regular season. And if he and Antero Niityymaki divide games fairly evenly during the regular season, Murray added, that could again be the case next spring.
Yeah. I’m starting to think this may have been a better goaltending situation than the Nabby signing was – we can start to mix and match goaltenders and when they’re playing well for a more consistent performance. It will be much more easier from a confidence perspective to trade Niemi for Niitty and vice versa than Nabby for Greiss.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Should I risk it as a hawks fan?
As a Hawks fan I am not coming on here to troll I am simply interested in seeing how you guys are reacting to Niemi. I for one can agree that I’m a bit confussed about why you needed a new goalie with Greiss, in my humble opinion, needing to make that step as a backup. Still please allow me to answer what I think ‘cause all in all, we all love hockey and it wouldn’t be fun without a bit of good stiff competition. Your team nearly had my dieing of a heart attack last year so here is my two cents:
1. Maybe, being that Niemi only played that little bit in the end of the season and you may have seen how “average at best” he was in the finals. Though I must say I would take Niemi over Huet any day. He has both moments when you wonder if he will develop into something special or just kinda piddle out. I think it is leaning on the later. Great backup or 1B starter in my opinion. Don’t start him more than 35 games or you’ll see him starting to get tired. Once again just my opinion.
2. Greiss, I think he has a lot of good potential. Let him start in the AHL and bring him up for a bit to test out the waters if one of the other two get hurt. I do like that previous nickname that mattman gave him “GPS” :)
3. Honestly I think you guys may make a trade for a d-man yet. DW knows there is enough room to sneak something in with a cleaver trade, and fact is he is a very smart GM
Your 2010 Stanley Cup Champs The Chicago Blackhawks!
Thanks for the perspective
At the end of the day, I don’t think you’ll find TOO many people here who think Niemi is bad. The fact still remains, he played behind a significantly better defensive corp and a much stronger set of defensive forwards in Chicago than he will here in San Jose. He’s without a doubt athletic, and a good shot stopper, but he is not particularly good on rebound control in our estimation.
The Sharks blue-line has no where near the talent level of yours, and our forwards are much worse defensively than your squad last season. I would venture to say that 60% of the goals scored against us were on uncovered third men not picked up by a backchecking forward.
As such, Niemi is a bad fit for us. He’d do much better on a defensively minded team like Phoenix.
Secondly, we had players signed for good value at the goaltender position.
You’re right. We WILL make a trade. If we don’t, we are no threat to win the Cup. Not with the roster as is. The problem now is, from a cap standpoint, we HAVE to make a sacrifice when it comes to our scoring depth to make that trade. We gave up about 2/3rd of our remaining cap space to sign Niemi. The $3.1M we had would have been enough to absorb some salary in a trade with a cap-tight team.
The signing just doesn’t make sense for us. It has less to do with Niemi than it has to do with our cap situation. Our general frustration at the signing should not be seen as a criticism of him, even though he is not the savior in net some might make him out to be and he does deserve a little flack for his play (just not against us in the WCF).
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I don’t really get the cap space argument. What were we going to be doing with it anyways? Unless we trade one of our league minimum guys, which I don’t see happening, there would be no need for a trade with that cap space.
And I don’t think Niemi was bad at all, I think a lot of us just found it perplexing given our situation.
In regards to Greiss, that’s part of our confusion: I don’t think there’s much we could do with Greiss now, especially since we have two talented goalies coming up in the AHL as well. Moving him down there hurts them, as well. Which leads me to believe some of the talk that maybe DW wasn’t that happy with Greiss’ playing. But then again, who knows?
I also hope we’ll trade for a defenseman (Staaaaaal), and I do think DW probably has something in mind…
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
We were going to use the cap space to acquire a defenseman.
WITHOUT having to give up a significant piece. Now, we don’t have the ability to take on more space. It’s the difference between trading for a defenseman without giving up Clowe and trading for a defenseman and having to give up Clowe.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 5, 2010 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions
If DW thought it was possible to trade for a top 4 defenseman this offseason without giving up a significant piece, this signing probably wouldn’t have happened, and he would’ve made that trade for the top 4 d-man already.
By the time we start nearing the trade deadline we’ll have more trade options available to us and we’ll hopefully have an extra “significant piece” at our disposal in Antti Niemi anyways.
This.
I don’t know why people think we can get anything useful trading Jay Leach.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
No one said anything about Leach, though.
It was the younger/cheaper players or those with inflated contracts like Mitchell or Huskins. The latter was likely just a pipe dream, and probably wouldn’t have been taken too seriously as a real offer.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 5, 2010 8:59 PM PDT up reply actions
No
But you COULD turn some heads by offering up a younger player, like a Derek Joslin, or maybe a Jason Demers.
Think about the trade we made with Vancouver last season. We basically dumped Ehrhoff and Lukowich for nothing because we needed the cap space. We were in exactly the opposite situation this season. We could have taken on someone else’s Ehrhoff. New Jersey and Vancouver are both $3M over the cap RIGHT NOW. We could have absorbed some of their salary in the form of Bryce Salvador.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
We will need to deal a Clowe or Seto to get that bonafide 2/3 dman
Hate to say it but I think most everyone realizes that Mitchell, Huskins, Murray and any of the prospects (like Ferreiro, Zalewski, Joslin, Mike Moore, etc.) weren’t going to fetch a Staal or equivalent 2/3 dman.
Sure, we could pick up an Ehrhoff like dump in Salvador but I’d rather not waste a roster spot on a player like him. Fact is there aren’t any top 4 dmen out there to be had on the cheap like we had to dump Ehrhoff last year. Closest could be Coburn but doubt the Flyers dump him and they aren’t pressed like we were.
Reality is we will need to deal Clowe, Seto or even Couture to land that top 4 – now or at the deadline.
So, while Niemi isn’t the answer, his $2m in cap space really is more or less a moot point.
by IsThisTheYear? on Sep 6, 2010 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't dispute the need to deal Clowe for our D-man
But we had some leverage prior to the Niemi signing with that available Cap space. From that standpoint, I still believe his $2M is absolutely not a moot point.
And you’re right, there’s not many Christian Ehrhoffs out there this season. But even picking up a Bryce Salvador would seem to give us more flexibility come the eventual big trade for a d-man.
Again, I just feel like the signing really underminds any leverage we had going for us in any potential deal.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Also
I consider Couture untouchable for at least one more season. He has too much upside in my book to sell him right now. We risk him taking a step backwards, but I don’t see how he doesn’t make himself more valuable by having a good year.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Agree on Couture – just too much value given his ELC cap hit of $1.241 (or $817K not including bonus). If he is included in a deal, for, say, Staal, hopefully, we get Stepan or Grachev coming back (i.e., a top 6 C prospect).
Re: $2m less cap space with Niemi now on the roster, well, in theory, you’re right but the reality, to me, is IF you assume Clowe has to be dealt in order to land that 2/3 dman, then his $3.65 cap hit alone, should free up enough space. Sure, it’d be nice to have that $2m extra in space but dealing Clowe should free up enough.
Salvador would be nice if he had only 1 more year left on his contract but having 2 years at a $2.9 cap hit makes him less attractive. We’ll need cap space to re-sign Seto and hopefully Niemi if he pans out.
by IsThisTheYear? on Sep 7, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions
sneaky dirtbags
dont let the blasphemous comments about owen nolan snuck into a reply near the top go unnoticed. 15ks has an asswhopping coming Marine Corps style in My very offended opinion. Hope to see you at a game you puke.
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