Latest Rumor: M.Staal for Seto? HAHA.
by ninakix on Sep 5, 2010 3:52 PM PDT
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PrintThe latest rumor care of Bleacher Report is of Setoguchi and a high pick for Marc Staal. This is ridiculous for many, many reasons, but let's break it down for a second.
First thing that makes this ridiculous? Well, for one, we're not trading for Marc Staal, we're trading for Staal's rights. This means that DW has to believe that he's going to be able to sign Staal to a worthwhile contract. And what kind of contract would look worthwhile? It's going to be tough: even though Staal might like the move to a Cup contending team, he'll want to try to restrict his free agency years for a chance to really get paid, presumably. I believe Staal becomes a UFA in two years. Further, we're trading Setoguchi - a guy who just took a discount to play, and presumably, Setoguchi wants to be a life-long Shark. Why would you trade a first round pick who wants to stay for someone who's likely to want to leave in a few years?
Which leads me to another point: I don't believe we even can trade Seto right now, given that we've just signed him.
As for that "high draft pick"? Seto is a first round pick himself, and I don't think Staal is worth the weaving up of so much potential talent...
And while we're here, who would you trade to the Rangers for Staal?
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Agreed.
Wondering if we’d consider something like Murray for Staal straight up?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
No way
that would be a horrible trade from the Rangers stand point. Unless they are absolutely sure that they can’t resign Staal.
For all his issues with bad UFA contracts
Sather is not a complete ruhtard. Plus I still think Murray is strong contributor on defense, and makes a perfect foil to Boyle. I think we need to find a good partner that can provide shutdown D on Vlasics line. A top 4 of Boyle, Murray, Vlasic, and would be great in my mind. A third line pairing of Wallin and Demers is also solid too.
by jMoneyBrah on Sep 5, 2010 5:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Who’s the fourth??
Agreed. The problem with Staal is you’re looking at two years then who knows where Staal will go. Staal needs to be traded somewhere where he has a chance of staying, but mostly with the expectation of a two-year contract, and so the question is, who would you trade for Staal for two years?
Sather should know Staal is going to be leaving the Rangers any chance he gets, if the rumors are true about contract length being the problem.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Sorry Phone edited out the fourth
Was supposed to read:
A top 4 of Boyle, Murray, Vlasic, and [insert shutdown Dman here] would be great in my mind.
given that bobby ryan’s name is also out there for a deal of some sort it seems like NY wants some younger 20+ goal scorers. might just come down to who actually is talking.
i like seto’s name being out there more just because i see him being a little more replaceable than clowe.
then again, our offensive is so awesome i don’t want it to change at all!
Uh, I think Seto is way more talented and hard to replace than Clowe. Maybe in the next year or so that might be true, but in the long term definitely not.
Also, I don’t think Bobby Ryan and Staal trade will help either team – each team is looking for a longer term contract, a way to hold on to young talent for longer. Both RFA’s want to sign for a shorter amount of time, either in search of UFA riches or a cup contending team. I don’t see how the trade really helps either party.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
neither party has much a say
of where they’re going.
as for seto v. clowe—we have a bunch of young guys that fit the build for seto—but not really anyone that could fill clowe’s frame.
It's Bleacher Report
I think a blindfolded monkey trying to shoot a puck into an open net from center ice would be more accurate than that site.
Patty Marleau lives an erotic life.
If we traded for Staal's rights
He’d hold out for money the same as he is with NYR. He’s going to fetch upwards of $6M. We can’t take him. So we’d be giving up Seto and the pick for a guy we can’t sign.
Yeah, Bleacher Report has got this one all figured out!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
I dunno, Staal might be hoping to play for a contender, or maybe he just plain wants to leave the Rangers for whatever reason.
I think Staal isn’t looking for $$, I think it’s term of contract that’s bothering him. I think he wants to play for a contender, mostly. The Rangers would like to lock Staal up for a few years of UFA, and Staal isn’t having it. This means he might sign for longer with the Sharks… And also. I don’t think Staal is looking for more than $6m. That’s just ridiculous.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
From what I’ve read he’s looking for a little under $5 million.
by red army line on Sep 11, 2010 5:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d do a Clowe + Huskins + 1st Round for Staal + 4th Round
But the Rangers would need to salary dump (under this trade), unless they still are planning on demoting Redden..
Eklund’s getting in on this rumor too. We can now officially give up hope on getting Marc Staal.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 12:51 PM PDT reply actions
Waaah.
Sometimes Eklund has a habit of getting things right… in a weird sort of way. I’ll take it as proof that the Sharks are talking to Rangers, but that’s not a big surprise there. I’ll decide he’s wrong about Seto, because that’s just ridiculous.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Selective interpretation
best thing ever
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Maybe we can do a 3-way trade to get Marc Staal.
New York is looking for a good young centerman from what i hear; so maybe we could trade Clowe to the Maple Leafs (since Burke seems to be such a big Ryane Clowe fan, and we need to free up cap space) for one of their young centers like Tyler Bozak or Mikhail Grabovski. Then we could flip either of those dudes + huskins + a 1st round pick to the Rangers for Marc Staal.
The Leafs would have to free up cap space but they have 9 defensemen atm so they could probably do that.
Maybe we could work a similar deal with Montreal if they have any good young centermen, (I don’t think Plekanec can be traded so soon after signing a contract) or any other team interested in a power forward like Ryane Clowe.
Now that Koviegate has drawn to a close, the rumor mill is back at full speed. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it’s that the Sharks are one of the more tight-lipped franchises in the league. I do agree that we have more prospects in the system that could potentially replace Setoguchi than those that could replace Clowe.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Do we have any prospects in the system that are legit considerations to replace either? The way I understand it is that the Sharks system is pretty bare when it comes to potential top 6 wingers.
Mashinter or MacIntyre...
are the prospects that could be Clowe’s replacements. At least, according to the organization.
As far as I know, we have no one who could replace/be another Setoguchi. We are short on speedy top 6 forwards who can score.
by IsThisTheYear? on Sep 7, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Why Staal makes too much sense for the Sharks
Currently, the Sharks are missing a 2-3 defenceman, forcing Murray to play above his level. With Staal, we would fill that void and then let Murray (and Wallin) play opponents more of their level.
Even Strength:
Boyle – Staal
Murray – Vlasic
Wallin – Demers
This lineup is, to me, an improvement over last year with Blake. Staal provides Boyle with a defensive backup for his offensive prowess. Murray then slots into the second pairing with Vlasic to provide a good shutdown line with the occasional offensive pop. Wallin would be expected to play third pairing minutes and sit on the blue line so that Demers can do all the offensive work.
Power play:
Pavelski – Boyle
Staal/Vlasic – Demers
Let’s just pretend that the coaching staff decides to roll four forwards for the power play like last year. It goes without saying that Boyle would also be on the first power play lineup. Where the benefit comes in is the second pairing. Demers has the possibility to make up Blake’s numbers on the power play without making huge mistakes because either one of Staal or Vlasic could back him up. Staal and Vlasic would also get the chance to work on their offensive game.
Penalty Kill:
Staal – Vlasic
Murray – Boyle(?)
With Staal on the team, we do not have to rely on Boyle to play heavy minutes on the kill which would greatly improve his overall performance (something FTF staff has already pointed out). Furthermore, a Staal – Vlasic pairing would be one of the most shutdown, defensive lines in the league.
Final Proposal:
It is going to take a lot to get Staal, but I believe that he will dramatically improve our team. To make this trade, I looked back at the Pronger trade : Lupul, Sbisa, 2 first round picks, third round pick. Staal won’t be this much, but it would be close…
To NY Rangers
Ryane Clowe
Steven Zalewski
Derek Joslin
2011 1st round
2011 3rd round
2012 2nd round
To SJ Sharks
Marc Staal
Corey Locke
Please let me know what you think or if the trade is a little lopsided
Take out Joslin and the 2nd round pick and then take out Corey Locke and it’d be a good deal i think. We really don’t need John Locke, and we’re deep at the center position as it is anyways. Plus Joslin could make a good backup d-man to have in case anyone gets injured; he’d fill in just fine on the 3rd line i’m sure.
The question is, do the Rangers really need Ryane Clowe?
Sather holds the power in the Marc Staal negotiations and he’s crazy enough to call Staal’s bluff and force him to sign a favorable contract with the Rangers or sit the season out.
I think the one thing Sather would really like is a center to play alongside Gaborik. Even if DW was willing to trade Couture it wouldn’t free up enough cap space to sign Staal so we’d need to move Clowe, unfortunately. I talked more about how we could trade Clowe to free up cap space, and acquire a good young centerman that we can then trade to New York.
I don't know if Sather needs Clowe
but he could sure use him. The Rangers currently are a small team and don’t have any power forwards. Sather could use Clowe as a “body guard” for Gaborik because Clowe is big and not afraid to drop the gloves. Clowe would also give you a consistent 20 goals, 60 points
Look, I don’t think Sather’s going to let Staal sit the season out – far better to trade him early for something better than to wait to trade him till after he’s sat out (if other GM’s know he’s desperate, it won’t be looking as good), and no use on wasting assets on the living room couch.
The real problem with the Staal negotiations, I think, is that Staal is out as soon as he gets to UFA. He may be happy playing for the Sharks, but who knows what cup-contending team Staal really wants to play for, so one just has to assume that any Staal trade is a trade for a two-year contract with Staal, and that he’s likely to bolt at the end of two years.
That said, it seems players seem to be genuinely surprised at how much they like playing in San Jose once they end up here, so there’s a good chance a teal Staal (hah!) would sign an extension after two years – though he would def get paid as a UFA at that point.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I think he could go for a four year deal.
Something like: 3, 3, 4.5, 6, for a cap hit of 4.125
This would give him a significant raise for the next two seasons and then escalate into the elite defenseman salary range for his first two years of his UFA range.
The four year contract also fits into the team salary structure that seems to be setup for what I suspect will be a wholesale dismantlement in 2013-2014.
Where has it been said Staal wants out of wherever he goes as soon as he is UFA elligible?
You keep saying that, but I have not read that anywhere else.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 7, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Rangers go short-term with Staal – which is what he wants – then expect them to be paying around or just over $4 million per year. If they go long-term – which is what the Rangers want – then I expect him to get around $5 million per year because then they are buying into his unrestricted free agency years.
So this isn’t quite what I’ve been saying – what Staal seems to want is a short-term contract, either because he wants to start getting priced as a UFA as soon as possible (get paid more), or because he wants to move to a cup-contending team asap. Either way, you cannot assume, if you sign Staal’s short-term contract, that he will stay any longer. I’m sure someone closer to the situation could make a better deduction of what Staal may or may not do, but I don’t have any information to think that Staal wants to play long-term for the Sharks, nor that we will ridiculously overpay him as a UFA.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Ah alright, thanks.
Just was wondering why you said that.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 7, 2010 7:31 PM PDT up reply actions
And where you heard that from.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 7, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s just to a good team, personally. Playing in NYR must really suck for Marc. His two brothers in the NHL already have Cup rings and he’s stuck playing almost all of the tough minutes in NYR because they don’t have anyone else that’s remotely competent, save Girardi who I believe plays a lot with Staal. He puts up plenty of ES points (in that clump of Dmen around 30 points after Keith and Green) but doesn’t get a shot to play on the power play.
by red army line on Sep 11, 2010 6:01 AM PDT up reply actions
Murray for Staal
Even though you dont want to risk overpaying for an RFA, assuming staal would sign (which im sure he would) this would definately work in the sharks favor…
the Rangers will need d just as much as they need offense if they lose staal…. and the reason their losing staal is bcuz they can only afford a salary somewhere in the 2.5 a year range for that position.. but staal wants more like 3 – 3.5….
Id say given the relatively similar styles in play and the proper salaries necessary for a trade to occur, id swap Murray for Staal… this would make the most sense for the rangers and for the sharks… this way the rangers can still hav their shutdown dman in murray but unlike staal, be able to afford him… meanwhile the sharks wont have to break up the 2nd line and can instantly not only replace but upgrade the same position they have jus traded away… and when i mean upgrade i mean UPGRADE…. having Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Dany Heatley, Dan Boyle and Marc Staal as our top 5 would make me sleep really good at night :)
BUT…
Even if this were or were not to go down id still like to see DW go an get another dman to replace rob blake on the 2nd line without trading any of our top 6 forwards… paired with vlasic id like to see an offensive dman like bergeron or bieksa as last season we didnt get enough point production from the blue line and should definitely be a priority for the sharks… with only a little room left after signing niemi, trading murray for stall would still leave us with enough room to sign a bargain offensive dman.. Bieksa would probably be too much of a cap hit and might not even be dealt at all… not to mention wed have to give something up for him… That said id sign marc andre bergeron… Solid qb on the pp, has a great shot, and will fit under our cap even with the addition of staal… if this went down our d would look like this..
Boyle Staal
Bergeron Vlasic
Huskins Wallin
Demers
I doubt that would happen
First of all, we have just over 1.5 mil in cap space. Trading Murray would free up another 2.5, but still we probably wouldn’t have room to sign Staal and another d-man. And second, we need a shutdown d-man, not another offensive one. Bergeron is horrible in his own end. He constantly makes defensive mistakes and can’t go up against quality competition. We don’t really need another pp quaterback because we have Boyler and I think McLellan is going to give Demers more time on the pp. So we only need 2 since McLellan likes to use 4 forwards on the pp. Bergeron is only useful for offense; just look back to the playoffs. Montreal only used him on the powerplay, besides that he pretty much just sat on the bench. So even if DW had room to sign someone else, I highly doubt he’d go for a player like Bergeron. That’s just a waste of a roster spot. Bergeron is 3rd pairing and a pp specialist at best.
we need another offensive dman
DW said it himself after the conference finals… we need more point production from our blueline and another puck moving dman… we need another dman that can control the play an play big minutes while boyles off the ice….
with another offensive dman playin on line 2 with vlasic id also like to see boyle get a better partner than murray…. murray although good, is nowhere near the caliber of player that boyle heatley thronton and marleau are… Staal would be a much better fit with that line… and apparently dw has talked an shown interest in bergeron… as well as bieksa, mara and staal…
No way Rags trade Staal for Murray
It’d be more like Clowe, Murray + a 1st or Joslin, or swap Seto instead of Clowe. I.e., we’d have to likely over pay.
Puppysoldier, the Staal IS a shutdown dman, not really an offensive dman (yet). In fact, he’s one of the best young shutdown dmen in the league. His QUALCOMP was #2 last year. Also, I wouldn’t say TMac LIKES to use 4 fwds on the PP – more out of necessity since we didn’t have many dmen who were effective on the PP besides Boyle and Demers.
by IsThisTheYear? on Sep 7, 2010 7:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly. No way Rangers trade Staal for just Murray.
Clowe, Murray & change seems closer.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
I'm saying Bergeron isn't a shutdown dman
I know Staal is a great shutdown defenseman. I’m not an idiot. I’m saying Bergeron is shit.
Bergeron is not shit
dude can shoot the puck 103 mph… hes a great skater and would be a good addition to any team esp for the price….
He is. The Caps were owning him, so Martin had to use him exclusively on the PP in the last three games against the Caps. He’s a PP specialist at this point. If you can get a top line against Bergeron it’s an automatic goal for (well, not really, but you get my point).
by red army line on Sep 11, 2010 6:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Rumor is Bobby Ryan just signed for $5.5m/5yrs, but I don’t think there’s anyway Staal agrees to 5 years.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Sportsnet.ca is reporting that the Rangers are “close” to reaching an agreement…
…not that Staal to SJ had much potential to begin with or anything.
..:Fear The Fin:..
i'm a big dreamer
… i figure at some point a sheer karmic accident will make things work out.
i took heart in this tweet, which is probably completely full of it, but at least it made me laugh.
Marc Staal progress: I had said they were 1M apart at 3 and 4, but it looks like it actually was 3 and 4.5, and now Staal has dropped to 4.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
beatwriter for new york daily news reports via twitter:
So the last guy we’re waiting to see is Marc Staal. Otherwise, every Ranger has been in on the informal skates. Fedotenko also skating.
Also worth noting is two defensemen have now been [rumored to be] invited to tryout during Ranger’s camp: Garnet Exelby and Alexei Semenov.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
That sounds like slightly good new, eh?
Marc wants a championship team and we want a good shut down dman. Common stall!
Semenov was invited last year, wasn't he?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 12, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
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