Owen Nolan on the outskirts as training camp approaches
by Mr. Plank on Sep 5, 2010 10:36 PM PDT
in Armchair GM
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It is early September, and the 38-year-old former captain of the Sharks has no idea where -- or even if -- he'll be playing when the NHL season opens next month. That hasn't happened since he began his career as the first player taken overall in the 1990 draft. And it wasn't the plan this year, either. When Nolan became a free agent in July after finishing his second season with the Minnesota Wild, he said his goal was to return to San Jose and play for the Sharks, making one more run at the Stanley Cup after pursuing it for 18 seasons. I've been an unhappy camper lately. This much is certain. And maybe this is me feeding off that raw, visceral, negative energy that has wormed it's way into my soul, blowing through my veins like a cancer you can't quite place. An ocean that's just an inch too deep, an undertow that's just a tick too turbulent. But for the life of me, I can't figure out why the Sharks wouldn't sign Owen Nolan. Especially when they decided to throw league-minimum dollars at a player like Jamal Mayers earlier this offseason. It doesn't make much sense to me.
Last season both players were pretty comparable in just about every category-- Nolan saw a little tougher competition, Mayers ended up a little higher on the +/- per 60 scale, points were a wash. The only real difference was that Nolan had a much better year on the kill, but I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Nolan is a penalty killing dynamo. He's not. He'd probably chip in just as much as Mayers will this season, a shift or two per game, put in your time and call it a night.
The difference between both guys? Goal scoring ability. Nolan has banged the twine 41 times during the last two years, while Mayers has done it 10. If you're looking to add some scoring pop on the lower lines, there's no debate as to who would be the more effective addition.
If we assume that Nolan would be brought on board at near the league-minimum salary (in Pollak's piece Nolan states that money is not an issue for him, competing for a Stanley Cup is), there's no doubt San Jose could make it work. Here's two different pairs of bottom lines, one with Nolan and one without:
Jamie McGinn - Logan Couture - Owen Nolan
Cam Macintyre/Frazer McLaren/Jamal Mayers - Scott Nichol - Torrey Mitchell
***
Jamie McGinn - Logan Couture - Torrey Mitchell
Cam Macintrye/Frazer McLaren - Scott Nichol - Jamal Mayers
Maybe it's just me, but a third line with Nolan scares me a helluva lot more than anything the Sharks currently are capable of putting on the ice. McGinn-Couture-Nolan, in theory, would be one of the better third lines San Jose has iced for awhile now, with scoring pop from all three players turning the Sharks into a team with three legitimate scoring lines.
Something they'll likely need with the current blueline in place.
Maybe I've been a little harsh on Doug Wilson and the organization lately-- it's clear that the Sharks are still going to be a great team next year, with lots of success night in night out. They'll make the playoffs, likely start their first two playoff games at home, and be a Stanley Cup contender in some form or another right when the postseason puck drops in April.
And maybe I've come to expect the big fish out of Doug Wilson-- he's pulled a rabbit out of his hat so many times before, acquiring players like Joe Thornton, Dan Boyle, and Dany Heatley in moves that cost relatively little compared to what each of these guys bring to the team. He's done a helluva job over the years getting his team in position to compete, and there's no doubt in my mind he's one of the better GM's in the League.
But looking at the additions this offseason, I seem to find myself more confused by the moves than pleased. The oft-discussed blueliner remains as elusive as ever, salary has been tied up in two players who are nothing but a step sideways (Wallin, Niemi, $4.5MM between them), and there's been no legitimate rumors connecting the Sharks to a noteworthy player outside of Willie Mitchell two weeks ago.
Whatever.
Just get me some hockey and I guess I'll be fine.
Go Sharks.
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I can understand that the Sharks would want to go with younger guys on the third line.
However, I think it’s not very smart to pass up on a proven commodity like Nolan who would no doubt strengthen our bottom 6, and keeps the bottom 6 respectable should Clowe get traded for a defenseman (which is starting to look less likely.)
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 5, 2010 10:43 PM PDT reply actions
He'll be a late signer
Just like Manny was last year. DW seems to be leaning toward youth, so Nolan will probably have to go through the pre-season motions to land a spot on the roster. I think he will land there eventually before the actual season starts.
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey."
"Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
I'm hoping this is the case, Solo, I truly do.
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Well, DW has done almost exaclty what I've wanted him to do the last 2 seasons.
Maybe he’s going to stop taking the advice of a 20-year old douchebag and see how that works.
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ROTFL
Hey, When do the San Jose State games start? Some of them were at Captain’s Ice last week with the boys, and it got me to thinking about that last time we were all at Peggy Sue’s thinking about taking in a few SJSU games…
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Looks like their first game is on the 24th. Don't know if that's when we start broadcasting them, though.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
I agree Plankman
Mayers over Nolan really makes no sense. It makes me sad thinking about it.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
At the end of the day, if you think the way Zero does (and I do) Chicago’s core is simply better than ours.
Ding, ding, ding!
Our offensive core is bad. ass. No doubt about it. Sure, there are still a few areas of need, most notably two holes which I would also love to see Nolan fill (scoring pop on the 3rd and 4th lines, more veteran presence), as well as the hole Manny left. Much like last season, our offensive core as-is will have the ability to eek out wins against the overwhelming majority of teams in the league, but against teams like Chicago and Van, we’ll simply end up struggling to put up enough goals against their superior defensive corps to offset the goals our insufficient (as it currently stands) blueline and untested goaltending could be surrendering. We bled SOG last year, and I think that took its toll not only on Nabby, but on every player on the team. There was an enormous amount of pressure on the top two lines to produce on a nightly basis, and for long periods of time the team’s offense was being carried entirely by a few players. I don’t have confidence in our core against those teams as it currently stands – I’m with ZI, Elvis, Plank.
Optimism has its place of course. I’ll support this team, and any of the teams I follow, through thick and thin. That much goes without saying. However, there’s another level of fandom that generally comes along with reading and posting on a sports blog such as FtF, and optimism will often play second fiddle to analyzing the current state of the team, discussing potential oersonnel changes
..:Fear The Fin:..
Doh, posted prematurely.
continued…
engaging in rampant and often irrational and heartbreaking speculation, and debating moves made by the front office.
..:Fear The Fin:..
With you on this 100%, LOK…summarizes my opinions as well.
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by Noctro on Sep 6, 2010 11:20 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Great post man. Something has got to happen.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
I really don't get not wanting to sign Nolan...
As is well documented, I’m not the sentimental type. So not signing Nolan doens’t bother me on a “I want him back in Teal so he can finish his career here” kind of way. But the dude can score, he works hard, would provide leadership on a 3rd line that is already pretty friggin young, and can chip in on the pp. A line of McGinn-Couture-Nolan is awesome, and would be a threat.
This offseason has sucked mainly because it appears, on the surface, that the Sharks team that wasn’t good enough to get to the Stanley Cup Finals last season did not get better. At best, we went sideways, and I’d argue that they actually got a bit worse. I always thought the point of letting Nabby walk was that we’d spend the extra cap space to improve the blueline. Maybe DW tried, as no one wanted to come here, but I dunno. We desperately need blueline help, so we sign an overrated goalie? We have 4 million in net now, for worse goaltending than Nabby could have given us, and a worse blueline. Awesome.
I’ve tried to stay pretty even keeled during this offseason, but with training camp approaching, I have to say, I’m underwhelmed by this team’s offseason. I don’t see this team as a Stanley Cup contender yet, and as a fan that desperately wants to see the Sharks finally win it all, that really irritates me.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
I’ve decided not to completely write off the goaltending yet. The tandem could mean more switching between the two goalies, leading to situations we just didn’t see with Nabby (if Nabby was subbed out, usually something was VERY wrong) but to an overall more consistent goal tending performance.
Now I’d like to see a blueliner, like every body else, to help that goal tending tandem. We still have a little bit longer till training camp, hopefully something amazing comes up next?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Your logic implies that if weren't good enough to win the cup last year, and we got weaker in the offseason, then we can't win the cup this year,
Putting aside the fact that you are assuming we got worse or stayed the same, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the only team that was better than us last season lost half its roster this offseason. Likewise, all Detroit did in the offseason was get older. The Kings signed Mitchell, but nobody knows if he can stay healthy for a whole season or remain as effective as he once was. Even if he does both those things, I don’t think the Kings have the depth or the scoring ability to make a deep run. There are a handful of other contenders, but it is very likely to come down to the Sharks and Vancouver in the conference finals… And by that time, who knows how our roster will look? All I know is the Sharks took a huge stride last season. I like our odds against ANY team.
As far as the goaltending situation, for the first time in many years, we’ll have the luxury of having a fresh goalie going into the playoffs, one that is guaranteed to be the hotter of two solid goalies. And if that guy is Niemi, we know for a fact that he is capable of winning a Stanley Cup.
In summary, will we need to bring in help at some point? Maybe, maybe not. The answer depends on more than just how the Sharks are doing. Would Nolan be a solid addition on the third or fourth line? Sure. Do I think we should be panicking at this point in time, with or without him? Absolutely not.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 6, 2010 2:54 AM PDT up reply actions
You're also assuming that the step back the Hawks took is greater than ours
That is a point that can be debated ad nauseum.
At the end of the day, if you think the way Zero does (and I do) Chicago’s core is simply better than ours. Their Blue Line is better, and their forwards are better defensively. They lost their goaltender. They get a servicable replacement. They lost two key guys from their second and third lines. They have young prospects from within the organization that are going to likely fill those spots. They lost a depth defenseman who was a key character and locker room guy. They have some options.
We lost half of our shutdown pairing, and honestly have not found a replacement. We lost our third line center, and might have a replacement assuming Logan Couture puts together a solid full season. We lost a key penalty killer and likely have simply downgraded him. We lost our starting netminder, and have signed 3 players to fill his position, which is one two many, and barring a pure dump trade of Thomas Greiss, won’t be able to clear a man out from that logjam until halfway through the season.
Chicago’s biggest weakness last season was goaltending. They have a wildcard replacement in Turco. He could be awesome behind that defense, or he could just be washed up. Our biggest weakness was defense, and we got worse on defense.
Did the Blackhawks get worse? Yes. They lost depth, one of their key strengths. Did they get worse than us? Open to debate. I land on the side of no.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Vancouver was a really strong team last year (although they didn’t look so great in the playoffs due to all their injured defensemen) and they got much better.
The Kings gave us a lot of trouble last year (they seriously owned us twice if i remember correctly) and now they’ve added Willie Mitchell and their young guys are only going to get better.
Detroit is still Detroit, and even though we beat them in 5 games they were all really close games and they could’ve gone either way.
The Blackhawks are still going to be a great team but frankly i’m really only concerned about Vancouver, LA, and Detroit, in that order.
You two are giving every team but your own the benefit of the doubt.
Between the two of you, you have whimsically dismissed Chicago’s loss of depth by assuming they’ll just throw in some kids to fill the holes. You assume that the only thing LA was missing last season to dethrone the Sharks was an aging, concussion-prone defenseman. You assume Vancouver’s injuries during the playoffs had more impact than the ailment that kept Marleau out of a handful of games and the injury that had Heatley skating at half-speed. You assume our defense will be weak without seeing them play a single shift… Sigh. I think the key to enjoying sports is to maintain hope, and I think the key to maintaining hope is to look at things in the exact opposite way you two are looking at things right now.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 6, 2010 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions
You assume our defense will be weak without seeing them play a single shift…
Um, we’ve been watching them play all year, except for Wallin, who we saw for half a year. We know all of these guys, and some of us are less than impressed with the unit as a whole.
Chicago’s lack of depth will be an issue for them. They’ll be much easier to defend. We still don’t have a blueline capable of keeping up with their top talent, though. So they are still a threat (especially with their epic blueline and better goaltending).
Vancouver wasn’t good enough to win it all last year, and went out and got a ton better. They went out and improved their team. As did LA. And where did Vancouver improve? On defense! And LA improved on an already good defense! Bluelines are so important! Both teams scare the shit out of me this year.
And Detroit is probably on equal footing with us. They were last season, we eeked out a series win against them, and we got slightly worse overall so far.
Luckily, there is still time for DW to rectify this. But at this moment, I’m not impressed. Doesn’t mean I won’t have fun cheering for them this season, though. I had fun cheering for them when they set a record for most losses in a season…so I don’t really need your keys to enjoyment. I just expected a lot out of this team right now, if we really want to challenge for a Cup…and at this point, I just dont’ see it. Not yet.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 6, 2010 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Completely agree with you and Elvis
Chicago lost depth at forward, but their core is still strong as hell. The blueline didn’t lose any integral pieces, and Turco will probably get them similar value as Huet or Niemi gave them last season.
Vancouver is the best team in the Western Conference, if not the entire NHL. They’ve improved immensely this year. If forced to pick right now, I say they will win the Cup.
Detroit got older, but that never seems to matter for them. They were racked with so many injuries last season which, although it could have something to do with age, made it more difficult for them to get into a groove. They’ll be fine.
Los Angeles is going to be a great team. TCY and I have debated this off-site ad nauseum, but I truly think they will be able to compete for the Pacific Division title right from the get go.
San Jose’s in there as well of course— it’s a solid team, and one that should be considered when analyzing the Western Conference contenders. But until a defenseman is brought in to play big minutes and put Wallin down onto the third pairing, it’s hard to expect them to be able to string off three series wins in a row against the caliber of talent they’re going to go up against during the postseason.
"San Jose is where I want to be at the end of the day, and there's an opportunity now to make it there. It is where my heart is." - Jamie McGinn, 2/22/10
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
I’m not going to say the Canucks aren’t the best team. And I’m not going to say the Sharks are. Injuries, deadline deals, surprise contributors, the timing of hot streaks, and the matchup game will have too much to say about who eventually wins it all. Inevitably, we’re going to lose a tough one to LA, hear about every move the Sedins make, and watch with bitter hatred as Detroit goes on one of its annual tears, so I’m going to say this now while my emotions are tranquil and my thoughts optimistic, while the team is healthy and the possibilities of an empty canvas promise of playoff heartache and Stanley Cup splendor… This is our year!
Of course, I say that every year.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 7, 2010 8:00 AM PDT up reply actions
Obviously, but you can't necessarily say that because you this defense play last year, you know how they'll be this year.
I think we can reasonably expect Demers to improve. I don’t think it’s crazy to expect Vlasic to have a better season offensively. We don’t know a lot about Wallin. Overall, I think we have an idea of where the Sharks as a whole will be come playoff time. As for the defense itself, there is a lot to be determined. Maybe they’ll surprise us all and really meld as a unit.
I guess we’re all, me included, a little guilty of getting ahead of ourselves. It’s September, and the people in this thread have already declared who the best team is and what every team’s weakness is. I hate this time of year.
by Ike Wa the L Hater on Sep 7, 2010 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions
Just to introduce a small, pointless argument
I think the key to enjoying sports is to maintain hope
I actually find the key to enjoying sports is simply to love your team and love the game. My love for the Sharks is not based upon the fact that they are going to win the Cup. My love for the Sharks is because they are the San Jose Sharks and they are my team. I acknowledge their shortcomings and weaknesses, and they will make me cringe at times, but I’m with them, hell or high water. I just also happen to hear the faucet running at the moment.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Sep 6, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Likewise, all Detroit did in the offseason was get older.
hahaha
But yes, I do agree with these points. It’s not as drastic as well make it out to be, really. As I said and Ike said, I think goaltending will really be more solid this year. I do think we’ll get another blue liner, Mayers may not have been a great signing, though I’m sure there was a reason for it, what with Nolan being around and available. I’m hoping Nolan didn’t wait till Captain’s Ice to tell DW he was interested.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
You know I was just thinking the same thing in that for the past few years there has always been some player acquired during the offseason who I was excited to see play when the season starts. Obviously last year I was wetting my pants waiting to see Heatley. But this year there just isn’t that kind of excitement. Every time DW has made a move I’ve always thought “ok cool but slow your roll DW make sure you save some money for something we actually NEED”
"Everybody had a part in this. As you can see, our fans love this. And we love them. And bring on the next team." -Joe Thornton
by waive kent huskins on Sep 6, 2010 12:00 AM PDT reply actions
Yes.
Just get me some hockey and I guess I’ll be fine.
If you told me at the end of last season that Wallin would be back at 2.5M and Jamal Mayers and Niemi (!!!!!!!) would be in teal I’d be pretty upset. But now? I don’t care! I just want hockey…
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
That’s the same mentality I have, I stopped worrying about DW’s questionable signings a long time ago. I just want to watch some hockey.
by In Bust we Trust on Sep 6, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Was ANYONE excited about the Jamal Mayers signing?
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I was
but only because of the potential of recreating that one Bloge Salming video if we had gotten Kaberle, with Marleau thrown in as a bonus.
In all seriousness, no. Just really didn’t do anything for me.
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Yeah a lot of stuff this summer doesn’t make sense to me. I try to keep myself from thinking that i know better than DW or somethin, but he’s making it hard this offseason tbh.
Could DW be worried that Nolans presence would alter the team’s chemistry or mood in the locker room? Even if it did, i seriously doubt he would alter it in a negative way.
Maybe when Nolan says money isn’t an issue, he really means ’i’ll play for 2 million instead of the 2.75 mill i made last year’.
I dunno, not much else makes sense to me.
I’m trying hard not to think that DW has a personal issue with Nolan.
DW was a apart of the organization when Nolan was still around, just not GM…
When looking at Mayers stats vs. Nolan’s I’m confused also.
by skilletboy on Sep 6, 2010 2:53 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
It may not be a personal issue, but I could see it as being one where he’s afraid of the potential change in the locker room dynamic because, at least when he was with the Sharks, Nolan was such a dominant personality and maybe Wilson prefers a locker room without that.
Of course, all indications are that Nolan has mellowed out a lot since those days, so it probably wouldn’t be anything to worry about.
Omg lol, I was posting on here late last night and i was having a serious brain fart and i could not think of the word “dynamic” for the life of me. I was like, “Maybe DW is worried that Nolan’s presence will alter the locker room…chemistry? No thats not the word i’m thinking of…Mood? No…Tone? No…Attitude?…Nonono ugggghh wtf!!!”
It was really bothering me for some reason…lol
The Mayers signing only makes sense if you are trying to get your lineup in place early
But signing Niemi clearly shows that we had no real intention of having our lineup set early.
I can’t imagine there was a bidding war for his services. I really don’t get know what the thought process was there. I respect the fact that no big name UFA defenseman wanted to come here for the sorts of contracts we were offering, but to then see the vaunted patience of our front office not be shown in signing a guy to Mayers’ role on the team is baffling. Add in BOTH goaltending signings AT THE TIME EACH WAS MADE (very early and high for Nitty, and confusingly late for Niemi), the Walin contract (assuming it wasn’t a handshake deal to get him here in the first place) and I really don’t know what direction the team is headed into anymore.
We’re a playoff team for sure. But until we make a move or three more, which we pretty much won’t be able to do until the trade deadline, I don’t see us as a real Cup contender yet either. Winning the division is not a sure bet. We probably still will, but I suspect I will have many more gray hairs before this particular season is over.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Obviously Mayers is not a good choice over Nolan if you're looking for scoring pop
But my bet is that the entire bottom 6 outside of Nichol will consist of youngish players on most days and that Mayers is just around to act as a half-decent roster player that’ll sit in the press box most nights and get on the ice when some of the other bottom 6 guys need a breather or someone has a minor injury.
Basically, IMO the question isn’t Nolan or Mayers, it’s Nolan or MacIntyre, or Nolan or Mitchell, neither of which is as clear cut when you consider the possibility of additional development.
If it’s between Nolan and Macintyre or Mayers or any other cheap/young guy, the choice should be Nolan.
DW should be trying to decide between Mayers and Macintyre not Nolan and Macintyre. Nolan is damn good player more than qualified to play on the 3rd line. It’s pretty retarded that we signed a 4th line grinder (who likely could’ve been replaced by Frazer Mclaren who’s even 250k cheaper) who doesn’t have much to offer outside of maybe face-off wins, but we won’t sign Owen Nolan. (assuming we could sign him for around a million or less)
If nothing else, all this talk has me eagerly anticipating MacIntyre. Who knows—maybe he has the offensive upside to jump right in on the 3rd line (presumably) with Couture and McGinn.
Also, in researching MacIntyre I noticed that Mike Moore also went to Princeton. This means there’s a chance (with Douglas Murray on D) we could have a lineup with three Ivy Leaguers. Maybe this is part of DW’s strategy.
Fully agree. I’ve been puzzled about this one as well.
Ever since I advocated Kovalchuk to the Sharks, I am still of the opinion that this team has very little leadership on the offense. With Blake gone and no replacement in place for him, how many true leaders this team has? Boyle? Pavelski? No one else. Blake, Nabby were experienced veterans who were not afraid to call this team out in the locker room and outside.
Nolan could provide that leadership on the ice and outside – much like JR, Nabby and Blake did. I’ve seen how hard he works on the Captain’s Ice – on most days harder than anyone else, and that’s just who he is. I get the “youth movement” direction, but still.. There will be injuries, and long losing streaks. Nolan is the kind of guy who will miss in those times, to say nothing of playoffs when youth’s knees are shaking and their playing time is cut to a minimum.
I hope DW changes his mind.
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its not over
Privet Ivano. I believe signing Nolan before the end of camp would be a mistake from a personnel standpoint. Let the kids come in and give 125% thinking that spots are up for grabs. Then after we see what they’ve got and assuming it still looks good sign buster. Theres no rush to ink the paperwork as Owen has already indicated he wants to be here.
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I don’t think Nolan not signing yet means “he wont sign ever”. I think DW first wants to see how he can get every other position set up. In my mind, DW is, even after the recent moves, one of the best GMs in the league. He isn’t an idiot, and knows Nolan wants the Sharks, and the Sharks need Nolan. But, considering that Nolan seems to be a one year signing, there are other elements that he must consider.
Still, it’s good to know that Nolan intends to sign with San Jose… and the man is convinced that San Jose can win the Cup this year. We may doubt the team, but Nolan believes… that’s good enough for me.
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It’s because Doug Wilson is an idiot. Even the average sharks fan can tell that Owen Nolan for league minimum is great value, and since the average Sharks fan has such a low I.Q, this means that Doug Wilson’s has to be even lower to not realize signing O.N is a good idea.
hmmmm
how to repond to this? Not necessary, I guess. Kind of like discussing shovel etiquette with the doggiee doo. no matter whats said your just gonna treat it like what it is.
Your grammar and sentence structure make this incomprehensible.
“Kind of like discussing shovel etiquette with the doggie doo.”
Do you mean speaking to doggie doo, about shovel etiquette?
Do you mean discussing some sort of combination of shovels and doggie doo? Discussing the combination of etiquette and doggie doo? Like first we’ll talk about etiquette, and then about doggie doo?
“No matter whats said your just gonna treat it like what it is.” There is no defined object in this sentence for “it” to refer to. You could look back at the previous sentence, but there are multiple objects, and thus multiple possibilities, in that sentence. Does it refer to doggie doo? Etiquette? It could even refer to “what is said.”
Please, try to consider your readers before publishing.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
no one appointed you the grammer Nazi!
And I think everone including you got the point. In fact your post only proves my comment was 100% right on the $.
Doug Wilson is an idiot?
You have solved all of the Sharks problems! How could we not see this before?
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I honestly don't know
Especially considering how many times he’s brought it up.
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Fools and Sages
I’ve been saying it for years, Mymclife, and most Sharks fans still think he’s one of the best general managers in the league.
What they fail to understand, is that the two are not exclusive to one another. Doug Wilson can in fact be one of the best General Managers in the league, and still be an idiot. I’m not saying I believe he is one of the best General Managers in the league. Most have a very strict budget to stick to. For instance, if Nashville, Phoenix, Dallas, Anaheim, and other teams could spend to the cap, add some star players to their cores, how much better would they be than Doug Wilson? In fact, of the 14 teams spending close to the cap, listed below:
Vancouver, Boston, New Jersey, Calgary, Toronto, New York Rangers, Detroit, Ottawa, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Chicago, San Jose, Minnesota (2.3 below cap).
Of those teams, Vancouver, Boston, New Jersey, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Chicago are all better, and therefore better managed.
Vancouver is this year’s Chicago. Boston is loaded with depth. New Jersey may not be better than the Sharks current team, or they may very well be, but regardless, their GM has put together many a cup winning team, which Doug Wilson has failed to do. Ken Holland in Detroit has consistently been better than Doug Wilson and everyone else. Philadelphia has gotten further than the Sharks in the playoffs recently, reaching the Finals last year and the Conf Finals a few years before. Pittsburgh’s Ray Shero has gotten his team to the Finals two years in a row, winning it the second time. He most recently lured two of the defenseman Doug Wilson may or may not have pursued, Zbynek Michalek and Paul Martin. Doug Wilson, by some miracle, got Niclas Wallin to agree to a 2.5 million dollar contract, when he probably could have gotten .250000000000 that amount on the open market. Chicago is referencing Dale Tallon, who built the team last season’s Cup Winning Team in a much shorter timeframe than it’s taken Doug Wilson to build a team that has not even made the Finals. Of the teams who are not better, Toronto has just started a rebuild, so Doug Wilson doesn’t rank above Brian Burke just by default there. in fact, Brian Burke ranks above Doug Wilson, because he capitalized on Doug Wilson’s mistakes in order to build a Cup Winner in Anaheim.
So far we have:
Mike Gillis, Peter Chiarelli, Lou Lamoriello, Ken Holland, Paul Holmgren, Ray Shero, Dale Tallon, and Brian Burke above Doug Wilson, out of the 14 teams spending near to the cap. That makes him 9th out of 14, meaning below average.
Concerning “bang for your buck,” the Billy Beane category, we have Phoenix, Colorado – who nearly beat the Sharks last postseason, and very well may have if it wasn’t for their injuries, despite currently being below the cap floor, Nashville, Steve Yzerman in Tampa Bay has made nothing but positive moves since he became GM, George Mcphee in Washington – they ran away with the Presidents Trophy last season despite not spending to the cap, and their drafting has been second to none in recent times. Their prospect pool is one of if not the deepest in the NHL. They got Ovechkin at #1, which was easy, but after that it’s been all skill. Getting Nicklas Backstrom, one of the absolute best forwards in the league, at 4th overall, is sensational. Getting Alex Semin at 13th overall, also sensational. Getting Mike Green at 29th overall? The only defenseman to score 30 goals in a long time? Beyond sensational. That’s two 80 point (or more) forwards, and one 30 goal defenseman, beyond #3 overall. Semin and Green both beyond 10th overall.
How many 80 point forwards has Doug Wilson drafted? How many even 15 goal defenseman has he drafted? I’ll give you a hint. It starts with 0, and ends with 0.
Up for debate is Carolina, based on their good postseason success despite spending so little money, and the Buffalo Sabres, who let walk their best players year after year yet still ice a competitive team. They’d built a super team in 07-08, somewhat similar to today’s Washington Capitals, before letting Briere, Drury, and others walk.
So, adding the teams who don’t spend to the Cap to the list, we have:
Mike Gillis, Peter Chiarelli, Lou Lamoriello, Ken Holland, Paul Holmgren, Ray Shero, Dale Tallon, Brian Burke, Don Maloney, Francois Giguere/Greg Sherman (whichever you want to give credit to in Colorado), David Poile, Steve Yzerman, and George Mcphee. And up for debate, Jim Rutherford in Carolina, and Darcy Regier in Buffalo.
If you exclude the up for debate ones, Doug Wilson is the 14th best General Manager in the league out of 30. If you include the two up for debate ones, he is 16th overall. If you include just one of the two, which is probably most fair, he is 15th in the league, which is average. What this means is he is an average general manager with an above average cheque book. Some General Managers are better than him, like Don Maloney and David Poile, but they don’t have the cheque book to ice a better team than the Sharks. Out of the General Managers in the Western Conference who do have his budget, Mike Gillis, Darryl Sutter, Ken Holland, Chicago Blackhawks, and Chuck Fletcher, Doug Wilson is 4th out of 6, which is in line with where his team ranks in the Western Conference.
So yes, he is bad at his job. If he was good at it, we’d be a perennial Conference/Cup Finalists, just like the best GM’s/Coaches in other sports, and in hockey, have teams that are perennial Conference/Cup Finalists. Phil Jackson with the Lakers, perennial finalists. Bill Belichick, for the most part, perennial conference/superbowl team. Ken Holland, in the finals two out of the last three years. New York Yankees, in the Finals the last two seasons.
As you can see, the people who are good at their jobs, in a salary cap league or a non-salary cap league, can get their teams to the finals in most seasons with ease! with ease, folks! If Doug Wilson got us to the conference finals every other year, I would not be impressed. It’s not that difficult. Most of the people running these teams are ex-players or ex-hockey people with very little insight. It’s not hard to be the smartest person in that room. It’s so obvious who to sign, who not to sign, who to draft, who not to draft. I can already tell you. and I will in another post.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Good god
I hope you just pasted that in from a title saved on your computer called “DW, the straight dope.”
by Timorous Me on Sep 6, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Why? Why does it have to be that title?
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry—meant “file.”
Another name for it might be “DW, more than meets the eye” or “The difficulty of being a Sharks fan with DW as GM.” I know—I’ve written treatises on the subject too. But like I said in a post below, at some point (maybe when October rolls around) we have to just let go of it and see what happens. That’s the joy and frustration of being a fan of a team, especially in this day and age.
Hey I agree, it’s frustrating. I wish more Sharks fans saw him for what he is. I wish I didn’t get insulted every time I pointed out how bad he is at his job, how lacking the team is in multiple areas. But I do and that’s just how it goes.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions
But you make it sound like he’s done nothing good for this team ever. Of course you’re going to get shit for that. Thornton, Heatley, Boyle, etc. Moves that a terrible GM wouldn’t have made.
You want a bad GM… look at Glen Sather. The guy finds a way to keep dishing out worse contracts every year. Redden looked terrible, but then he went and signed Boogard.
Your hate probably stems from the lack of a Stanley Cup in the Sharks’ recent past. Or because he stole some of your spray on tan. Whatever it is, it’s not like “more Sharks fans” don’t dislike some of his moves. But, as a whole, he’s a great GM.
P.S.: I apologize for any grammar mistakes in advance. And I’m pretty sure I didn’t insult you for your opinion… so “HA”!
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Except those moves were all luck. Joe Thornton, I don’t even have to go into that. Boston’s GM didn’t even get offers from other team’s. That’s GM 101. Dan Boyle… every GM in the league that needed a puck moving defenseman, in other words most gm’s in the league, offered for him, and many offers got accepted. Boyle picked SJ. Dany Heatley only wanted to come to one team, and that was SJ. he picked SJ and took away all of Ottawa’s leverage. All extremely fortuitous situations.
He’s just made too many mistakes. One way to look at it, if he’s made 50 big mistakes in the last seven years since he became general manager, the only way for him to be the best GM, and for us to have the best team, is if the second best GM in the league makes either 51 mistakes or more. And I don’t see Ken Holland making 7+ mistakes per year.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Luck? Do you have any facts to back that up? Show me a link and I’ll believe it….
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I call a lot of people 12 years old, just because they sound as stupid as a 12 year old, even though I know they’re not really 12 years old.
But you, you’re really 12 years old, if that. I’m positive.
“Luck” cannot be quantified with a link. Whether or not it was reported that Doug Wilson offered around 4.5 million to a player can be quantified by… a report, or a link to a report.
That’s why what I asked for, and what you’re asking for, are incongruous. That is why you don’t know what you’re talking about, and are clearly of inferior intelligence to not only myself, but to most of the other posters on this website.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
If it offers you any sort of consolation, I’m not actually 12. So unfortunately, oh Wise One, you are incorrect in your remarks.
Though obviously spending time talking to you reflects on my lack of intelligence….
Quick question: Why do you hate the Sharks… and why do you post here?
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
I don’t hate the Sharks. I am someone who does not get paid to analyze the Sharks all day long, or to analyze advanced statistics all day long. I am not a former NHL defenseman. I only watch the games, scout players a little bit, re-watch some games, etc. So I am disappointed that I, despite my comparably casual involvement with hockey, could, guaranteed, do a much better job at managing the Sharks than Doug Wilson. Everyone who knows me, in person, agrees with this, because when I point things out to them, and show them things they couldn’t otherwise see, they believe me, because it’s right in front of them on the TV, or on the ice in the Shark tank. When I try to explain it to people online, they don’t believe me. I don’t have the proof right in front of me to show them like i do with people in person.
I don’t hate the Sharks. I am thinking about what’s best for them long term. It’s just like with the Giants. If they make the playoffs this season, Brian Sabean will keep his job, meaning the General Manager who has shown annual incompetence will continue to run the team, and run it poorly. Simple minded Giants fans go to the games, and they root for the team. They want the team to make the playoffs. But I know that it’s best for the team to lose every game from now until the end of the season. Because if that happens, Brian Sabean will get fired, and hopefully someone better will be brought in to replace him, and then instead of making the playoffs once or twice over the next decade, and not winning the World Series, which is what will likely happen if Brian Sabean remains the General Manager, instead of that, maybe they will actually win the Series.
It’s the same concept with Doug WIlson. I know that if he remains General Manager, the team will continue to be flawed. They may eventually win a Stanley Cup, just because anything can happen in the playoffs, and it’s bound to happen sometime, even if they aren’t the best team. But, usually, the best team wins. If you want to be there in the last 2-4 teams ever year, consistently, you need to be one of the best two or four teams in the league. Doug Wilson just doesn’t see the things I see. Maybe his experience playing in the pre-lockout NHL makes him see things like they were back then, instead of how they are now. I don’t know what it is, but whenever he makes a move, I can tell you if it’s a good one or not right away, and be right every time. I can tell you which players will let the team down in the playoffs, accurately, a few games into the season, and I have before to the people I know. It takes Doug Wilson until after the playoffs, when the players have already failed, to tell who to get rid of, if he ever figure is out at all. By that time, it’s too late. The season is over. The team is eliminated. I can tell before it’s too late.
To answer your question, the Sharks best chance at regular success is for Doug Wilson to be fired. I can’t really enjoy rooting for the team until that happens, because rooting for the team is in direct conflict with rooting for Doug Wilson to be fired. If the team does well, Doug Wilson stays.
In essence, I either want the Sharks to win the Stanley Cup, for Doug Wilson to finally deliver, or I want them to finish last, so Doug Wilson loses his job. The problem is, they always end up somewhere in between. It’s because I already know that this team isn’t good enough to win the Stanley Cup that I hope they just lose the first ten + games of the season so that he gets fired. If i thought there was a chance they could win it, maybe I’d hope for that, but I don’t think there’s much of a chance. There is a chance. There always is. But it’s very small.
The second answer to your question is it’s frustrating to watch someone make the same mistakes time after time when you know better, yet have no control over it. If Doug Wilson had contact with me, the Sharks would have already won multiple Stanley Cups. But he doesn’t, and at this point, I think he’s such a conceited tool I’m not sure I’d help him if he asked. The point is, it’s hard for me watch such stupidity when I’m not stupid. Signing Jamal Mayers over Kyle Wellwood, Owen Nolan, Mike Comrie, even Marek Svatos? There’s absolutely no intelligent reasoning for that. It’s because of some bullshit like “Mayers is a good athlete” or a hockeyrat. He’s looking at the wrong things. The other guys are good PLAYERS, with SKILL. Year after year our third line fails to score, and year after year he lets them go, but then brings in more players who can’t score, who have never scored, who never will score. There is no intelligent logic to it. He seems to not even want scoring on those lines. He seems happy just to get scoring from his top two lines, and have the bottom two be good defensively. That’s not smart.
And it’s not even complicated. I don’t have to be a genius to tell you guys this. I am a genius, yes, but I don’t have to be to tell you guys these things. I think plenty of normal people can see it too.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions
That last paragraph you typed proves this theory.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How’s this?
Brilliant Person + Stupid Audience = Brilliant person gets called stupid, because stupid audiences have trouble recognizing brilliance.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
And you know that’s true. You can make fun of me for talking about myself objectively, even though I know how it will come off to some, but you can’t deny my knowledge of the subject at hand, which is hockey, and more specifically, the Sharks.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
I deny it. You really don’t know what you’re talking about, about the Sharks, about hockey, about yourself.
I meant truly deny it, inside. You can write it here just because you like to oppose everything I say, but inside, you know the truth. That’s what I’m talking about. You can’t really deny it.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not calling you stupid.
We’re all pretty knowledgeable about the Sharks, hence us posting here. I’m calling you something else.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 8:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Hah, wasn’t going to post, but you nailed it. For the woefully insecure, anonymity can prove to be the elixir of the gods.
..:Fear The Fin:..
Yet you’re anonymous too, and, in fact, you guys are the ones who started at me first. Seems like you’re the ones looking for an anonymous fight, and I’m just reacting like a normal person, and responding because it’s a holiday and I’m on the computer.
In other words, maybe that elixir nonsense came to you because it’s about you, not me. why are you online if you’re not what you speak of?
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I know that if he remains General Manager, the team will continue to be flawed. They may eventually win a Stanley Cup, just because anything can happen in the playoffs, and it’s bound to happen sometime, even if they aren’t the best team. But, usually, the best team wins. If you want to be there in the last 2-4 teams ever year, consistently, you need to be one of the best two or four teams in the league.
So, we need to be consistently good. And, we haven’t been? The division titles, the 100 point seasons, the making of the playoffs, they count for nothing?
Also, this is another one of those statements that just needs to be preserved for posterity. Clearly, what you are doing online is not comparable to what you are doing in real life. Because statements like these are NOT going to win you any street cred with this crowd.
Signing Jamal Mayers over Kyle Wellwood, Owen Nolan, Mike Comrie, even Marek Svatos? There’s absolutely no intelligent reasoning for that. It’s because of some bullshit like "Mayers is a good athlete" or a hockeyrat. He’s looking at the wrong things. The other guys are good PLAYERS, with SKILL.
If you want to say Jamal Mayers is a bad signing, whatever. In case you haven’t read the other posts on this board, that’s the general sentiment. But the moment you say we should have signed Kyle Wellwood, you’re going to lose everyone. Marek Svatos or Mike Comrie signing for $600K in San Jose is a pipe dream.
If these are your “improvements” over our current GM, we’ll pass on the snake oil, thank you.
If Doug Wilson had contact with me, the Sharks would have already won multiple Stanley Cups.
Again, posterity.
I, despite my comparably casual involvement with hockey, could, guaranteed, do a much better job at managing the Sharks than Doug Wilson. Everyone who knows me, in person, agrees with this, because when I point things out to them, and show them things they couldn’t otherwise see, they believe me, because it’s right in front of them on the TV, or on the ice in the Shark tank. When I try to explain it to people online, they don’t believe me. I don’t have the proof right in front of me to show them like i do with people in person.
Can we add some of these to the FAQ?
I can tell before it’s too late.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Sep 7, 2010 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How were those trades luck?
"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob
I explained it already. When most GM’s try to trade for a player, they have to make the best offer out of all their fellow GM’s. But in the Joe Thornton case, Boston’s GM was on drugs, and he didn’t receive offers from other teams, just from Doug Wilson. Therefore Doug Wilson did not have to play by the normal rules. He got a fortuitous situation. If Boston’s GM was open to offers from other teams, he would have in all likelihood received a better offer from another team, and Joe Thornton would not be a Shark today. That is luck.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Dany Heatley wanted to go to multiple teams.
Just not Edmonton.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Three, maybe four outliers on your list.
No way New Jersey, Boston, Philladelphia, and perhaps Chicago are better than us on paper.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh and a few other things:
Washington was able to draft their current stars because they were terrible for so long. Since DW has been GM, the Sharks have only missed the playoffs once and that was when he took over around midseason. Also, the Yankees haven’t been to the World Series the last two years. Do some fact-checking if you’re going to reference teams from another sport.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Alex Semin was drafted 13th overall. The Sharks have had numerous picks before 13th overall. They picked Couture and Setoguchi in the top ten. Mike Green was drafted 29th overall I believe, higher than almost all of the Sharks 1st round draft picks.
Sorry but you have no idea what you’re talking about.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Twice.
Twice they have drafted there, and they were in that position because of TRADES, not because they had been terrible the year before.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions
They picked Couture and Setoguchi in the top ten.
Are you saying this is a bad thing? I’m genuinely confused.
There was a point in time that the Sharks led the league in number of draft picks that made the roster. They included players like Michalek, Bernier, Carle, Vlasic, Pavelski, Setoguchi and Clowe.
Some guys were shipped out in trades that were attempts to make the team better. I would be remiss if I did not acknowledge that. But if your biggest concern is that we didn’t pick Mike Green, perhaps you may have noticed that Green was passed over for Team Canada and was a playoff goat. And Alexander Semin… well, I’d say he’s a playoff goat, but that would imply he did anything worth mentioning in the playoffs. So, again, I don’t know what point exactly you are arguing anymore.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Of those teams, Vancouver, Boston, New Jersey, Detroit, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Chicago are all better, and therefore better managed.
Vancouver is over the cap by about $3M at the moment. That’s not good management.
New Jersey better? The same New Jersey that hasn’t been out of the first round since when New Jersey? The New Jersey that needs to shed salary like a mofo to accommodate Kovalchuk New Jersey?
Boston paid Tim Thomas $5.4M. And they cant decide if they should keep Marc Savard. They’re better managed?
Philly paid Jody Shelly $1M, and they still have Daniel Carcillo on the roster. They had to dump Simone Gagne for nothing. They’re better managed?
As you can see, the people who are good at their jobs, in a salary cap league or a non-salary cap league, can get their teams to the finals in most seasons with ease!
How many GMs have gotten their teams to multiple Conference Finals in the Cap age? (hint, it’s a very short list). How many GMs have acheived multiple 100 point seasons and Division titles? (hint, it’s a very short list).
As for “People who are good at their jobs” who can “get their teams to the finals in most seasons with ease,” here’s another hint. The job titles of those people contain the words “center,” “wing,” “defenseman” and “goaltender.” They do not contain the words “General” or “Manager.”
If Doug Wilson got us to the conference finals every other year, I would not be impressed. It’s not that difficult.
I’m not even going to respond to this statement. I just want it highlighted for the good readers at FTF to ponder over.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Hey, Buttercup...
…you’d do far better at making friends here and being listened to if you spent less time insulting people, and more time talking hockey.
Just a suggestion.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
Bleeding teal since 1997
Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
My Twitter
“When does school start up again? Then I’ll know to only post during school hours.”
“And it’s not even complicated. I don’t have to be a genius to tell you guys this. I am a genius, yes, but I don’t have to be to tell you guys these things. I think plenty of normal people can see it too.”
“That is why you don’t know what you’re talking about, and are clearly of inferior intelligence to not only myself, but to most of the other posters on this website.”
“Your grammar and sentence structure make this incomprehensible.”
—You
That’s after a quick scan of the unbelievable logorrhea Buttercrunch7 has posted in this thread alone. I don’t read the posts, because what’s the point? I do wish he’d either learn some respect and contribute to the discussion instead of polluting it, or go start his own blog to post his “genius” insights. But again, what’s the point?
by ievans on Sep 6, 2010 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
There’s the problem right there. You don’t read the posts. What’s the point? The point is that I am contributing to the discussion. You need to learn some respect. I’m hear teaching you thinks, helping you learn about hockey, and you’re not even reading the posts I took the time to write. Instead of learning something, you will continue as you are, which I do not envy.
If you had read them, you would know that the majority of what you quoted was posted because someone asked me to post it. They asked me a question, why I thought some of the things I thought, and I respectfully replied.
Correct me if I’m wrong (don’t actually, because I’m not), but when someone asks you a sincere question, and you take the time to write a sincere answer, isn’t that what you’d call “contributing to the discussion?”
Again, you’re wrong, and I’m right. You try to point out I’m not contributing to the discussion respectfully, but it turns out you’re dead wrong, and I am.
So just stop man. You’re wrong. You can’t keep up. I think quicker than you do. I type faster than you do. I think more accurately than you do. You keep trying to catch me in some mistake, point out some inconsistency, but there are none, so you resort to typos and the like. There’s nothing here for you to make fun of. It’s all dead on. I’m not making things up. What I’m saying is true. I have to see it to say it. You think I would just make up a bunch of things that aren’t true and tell them to you guys? What would be the point? When I say a player is a bad signing, or the Sharks need to sign a player, it’s because it’s true. I have no motivation to make any of it up.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
logorrhea
This is my new favorite word. Thank you!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
So far, for equal money, Doug Wilson has:
Signed Jamal Mayers instead of Owen Nolan at an equal price.
Re-signed Niclas Wallin instead of Andy Sutton for an equal price. Andy Sutton may not be the #2 we need, but as things stand, Wallin is playing in the bottom pairing, and 17 minutes a night from Wallin on our third pairing would be sensational. He was 2nd in shots blocked last season, a weakness on the Sharks, and adding him to a defense corps with Doug Murray would have made ours one of, if not the most, physically intimidating bluelines in the league.
God….yeah i would’ve much preferred Andy Sutton over Wallin. Plus Sutton is actually about 400k cheaper, and you gotta think that he might have taken even less money to play for a cup contending team like the Sharks rather than a team that placed 11th in the west.
Ugh that makes me sad just thinking about it.
Very true. He very well would have. I mean he was out on the FA market for awhile. If SJ would have offered him a bit less on the first day of free agency, and he hadn’t gotten the Ducks offer yet, he probably would have just taken that before the offer expired. Sutton is a solid player, and man can he hit. What’s worse is he went to our rivals, who are on the up-swing. They may not put everything together this season, but with Fowler, Etem (another we could have had, who we passed on, to their benefit, just like we passed on both Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry, to their immense benefit), Sbisa, and probably others I’m forgetting, they’re going to be very good very soon.
Perry – Getzlaf – Ryan
Etem – - Bonino maybe
A healthy Lupul… Koivu for two more years. Maybe a free agent or two…
Visnovky, Sbisa, Fowler… Not many have that many talented puck movers. And Sutton just solidifies things.
They have plenty of talent, just their chemistry was lacking, and their identity was lacking without Chris Pronger. They still have the same coach who kind of failed last season, so I’m not sure they’ll manage to turn things around with the same coach, but the talent is there.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Too bad Charlie Coyle is looking like a hell of a pick as well.
But I can see that you made no mention in your post of how he tore it up for Team USA and exceeded expectations on that team.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
you gotta think that he might have taken even less money to play for a cup contending team like the Sharks
Not to put too fine a point on it, but we have NO reason to think he would take any less money to play here. We are not the only contenders in this league. And it’s been made abundantly clear that there is a very real bias against playing in the Western Conference and the Pacific Time Zone.
And I’d want to see real pressing evidence that Andy Sutton is a significant improvement over Wallin. I like the shot blocking stat, and that works in his favor, but I’d need to see more before I’m convinced Sutton would have been a better signing.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
He signed with the Ducks dude. Obviously playing in the west/pacific isn’t a problem to him. The Ducks are not cup contenders. It’s perfectly reasonable to think he may have accepted even less than he did from the Ducks.
What can you say about Wallin? He’s kinda big (though not Andy Sutton big) and plays a steady game. Andy Sutton is a 6’6" physical shutdown defenseman who skates well for his size, has a strong point shot, and he’s a great shot blocker. Nuff said imo. Sutton is also 400k cheaper than Wallin anyways. (and he may have signed with us for even less)
I'll rescind my point on him not signing in the West
The money argument though, I still won’t buy. But that’s just me.
I will accept that Sutton is probably a better option, but Doug Wilson clearly sees Wallin as a Top 4, and probably views Sutton as a bottom pairing depth guy who lacks the speed to do what he wants his #2 or #4 guy to do. Also, the intangible “Cup winner” argument.
It is what it is. I think we all probably disagree with our GM on that point.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Wallin was signed before the UFA period. Sutton was signed much later into the UFA period where we didn’t have a spot for him.
We have more than enough 5-6 guys on this team, why waste even more roster space with yet another bottom pairing d-man. Yeah, DW overspent on keeping Wallin in SJ (probably because the guy didn’t really want to be here, like most rentals or UFAs), it’s passed and comparing his signing to Sutton’s is apples to oranges.
Wallin is a 1 year contract when it looks like there will be a much deeper pool of defensive players available next year that we won’t be able to sign because no UFA ever signs here.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Oh, and instead of signing Michalek, Hamhuis, or Volchenkov for 4 – 4.5 million per year, he signed Wallin and Niemi for 4.5.
I’m not saying I think anyone but Michalek and potentially Hamhuis if he grows into that role are worth that money, but if I’m going to overpay, I’d rather overpay a quality defenseman who can fill a need than overpay Wallin, and to pay 2 million to a goalie who will play on our bench.
And before you start yapping that Niemi is our starter…
When Niemi plays, Niittymaki will be on the bench, and he’s making 2 million = paying 2 million to a goalie to play on the bench.
When Niittymaki players, Niemi will be on the bench, and he’s making 2 million = paying 2 million to a goalie to play on the bench.
Either way, he wasted 2 million of our cap on someone who’s not playing. Only one goalie can play at a time.
DW was in on Hamhuis on Day 1 of Free Agency, who took less money to play in Vancouver.
And I would not be surprised if he was in on Volchenkov and Michalek as well. The latter two decided to play in the East, as opposed to playing out here. Just because they didn’t sign with us doesn’t mean the Sharks didn’t try to sign them.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Just because you assume Doug Wilson was in on all three of those guys with no factual backing does not mean he actually was. i find it hard to believe we fail, year after year, to sign any big free agents, yet we’re always “in on it.” He’s said, year after year, he despises free agency, because all the inferior teams with their inferior GM’s spend laughable amounts of money on them, whereas he, the best GM on the planets, reserves laughable contracts only for his terrible deadline acquisitions.
In other words, those other GM’s overpay good players, and he overpays bad players.
That aside, he claims to prefer traded to free agency. I find it hard to believe that whenever he tries to trade for a player with a no-trade clause, and that player has to pick between 5-10 teams, the players always pick the Sharks, but when it comes to free agency, he offers as much as other teams, but the players just don’t want to play here. it doesn’t add up. Whenever a player has a choice to play in SJ or other teams, they pick SJ in trades. Every player who plays here claims to love it.
Yet, Doug Wilson really did offer good deals to these players, and they declined? He offered more than 4.5 per season to Hamuis, and he took less?
You’re confusing your reports. There was a report or two that Doug Wilson offered a contract to Hamhuis. There was also a report that some teams, unidentified, offered Hamhuis more than what he signed for in Vancouver.
Your mind is quantifying this as “Doug Wilson offered more than Vancouver, but he took less to sign in Van.”
That is not true.
Assuming he was in on them, which is unknown, but if he was, he hates long term deals. He probably offered them 3 year deals. That’s not going to get it done when other teams are offering 5-7. There is nothing wrong with long term deals. In fact, they are preferable because they reduce the cap, which, strictly speaking in terms of building the best team, is all that matters.
So no, he’s not faultless in all this. “He did everything in his power to improve the team; they just decided to sign elsewhere.” That’s a cop out, an excuse, whatever you want to call it, and worst of all, it’s not the slightest bit true.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s believed that multiple teams—us, Los Angeles—offered Hamhuis contracts at or about $4.5 million per season. But yes, there’s the long-term deal issue, and the fact that Hamhuis wanted to go home, which is near Vancouver. Nothing we can do about that, is there?
I’m often unhappy with the moves DW makes, but I do grant that oftentimes there is more going on than meets the eye. And that’s not information we’re privy to, so there’s only so much that can be said. At some point, you just have to live with it.
This just is not factual. I have not read a single report claiming the Sharks offered at or around 4.5 million to Hamhuis. Show me a link and I’ll believe it.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions
“I’m still pissed we didn’t make a splash either considering it makes trade negotiations more difficult, but I have a feeling he went after Hamhuis and Martin pretty hard but just outbid. Hamhuis reportedly rejected contracts that were north of what he got from Vancouver, citing a desire to play in his home province, and Martin has been on the East Coast his entire professional career (as well as growing up in Minnesota and playing college hockey there). These are things that we generally have no insight into that play a big role in free agency.”
He says he “has a feeling” Doug Wilson went after Hamhuis. He then citied that it was reported that some teams made higher bids for Hamhuis, but he never inferred that was the Sharks.
“I remember reading that the Sharks were one of the last teams involved with Hamhuis before he chose Vancouver. I think DW tries to get these big name guys, but they don’t want to play here either for travel concerns or think that we aren’t a legit hockey market (which we are.)”
He said “I think DW tries to get these big name guys.” He’s just speculating. It’s possible DW was one of the last teams in on him, but that doesn’t mean he had a high bid. Maybe because players want to come to SJ he was in it until the end even though he had a very low offer on the table.
“The Sharks have been in the conversation a few times for better or worse examples including Niedermayer, Redden and most recently Hamhuis so its not necessarily for DW’s lack of trying.”
I don’t think Doug Wilson was in on Redden. Other than that, he states Doug Wilson was in on Niedermayer, who is his favorite player of all time, and Hamhuis. This never says anything about him offering above 4.5.
“The only big name that came west was Hamhuis, and he was going home.”
Nothing about a high offer from DW.
None of the comments reference a high offer. No worries about it I’m just saying, to my knowledge, Doug Wilson was not one of those teams offering “above 4.5,” and I’m skeptical any team was offering above 4.5. I believe it’s more likely what the TSN guys meant was some teams offered longer term.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions
i find it hard to believe we fail, year after year, to sign any big free agents, yet we’re always "in on it."
I couldn’t understand what you were talking about. Did you mean: “I find it hard to believe…”
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
That’s what I wrote. I find it hard to believe.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
And you are making the same assumption by assuming he wasn't since he didn't sign him.
Nice logic there.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 6, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Assuming he was in on them, which is unknown, but if he was, he hates long term deals. He probably offered them 3 year deals. That’s not going to get it done when other teams are offering 5-7. There is nothing wrong with long term deals. In fact, they are preferable because they reduce the cap, which, strictly speaking in terms of building the best team, is all that matters.
I’m not going to do any research at this point, but I think it’s been widely reported that the Sharks have been “in on” virtually every available defenseman since the lockout. Pronger didn’t want to come here. Niedermayer wanted to play with his brother in Anaheim. TSN reported the Sharks had interest in all the major UFA D-men this offseason. The Sharks have several things working against them. The first and foremost being geography. Guys who have spent their careers out East are not eager to come play for a Western Conference and West Coast team. They all rail about the travel.
The second point is the contract term. Of all the criticisms you have leveled against Doug Wilson, this is the only one I have really found any merit in. It’s absolutely true that we rarely offer term to a player. Doug Wilson is on record as stating he prefers 3-4 year deals, as he takes a conservative approach. If you want to see how these long term deals go bad, look no further than Wade Redden, Chris Drury and to a lesser extent, Dany Heatley.
Tying up money long term in the cap is a risky proposition. You have to be really sure about the kind of player you want invested in. It’s why the Joe Thorntons and Patrick Marleaus get the big bucks. They are generally safe investments. Outside of Volchenkov, I’m not so sure any of the big name guys are going to be those sorts of guys. And if other teams outbid you, other teams outbid you.
If that is Doug Wilson’s fault, harder to say. You are correct in that he is not blameless. He made the choice to have $24M invested in our Canadian Olympians. It also sets a sort of internal cap on our players. Why should any incoming UFA have a contract longer or richer than our team’s most important players have? Does that hinder our ability to give these guys bigger money? Sure. Which puts a greater strain on our farm system, because by and large, this team is a product of players it had to develop. And we’re doing okay. From that standpoint, your assertions that we do bad in the draft department are completely baseless.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
THANK YOU, Mr. Plank!!!
I think the bitter pessimism always comes at this time in the post-lockout era, when the pieces aren’t all in place yet, leaving us all with that bitter taste of “WTF?” in the mouth.
When it comes to Nolan, I couldn’t agree more…I’ve gone to a few of the Captain’s scates these last few weeks, and Owen has been more than keeping up with the kids.
I do admire DW’s ability to pull together consistent playoff contenders, but this move baffles me, unless it’s another famous DW smokescreen.
It would be an absolute shame to pass up on him right now, as one of the main items we learned versus Chicago was we need scoring depth. And the big “N” has that. In spades.
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Er "skates," not "scates."
Odd, the spelling checker didn’t catch that one…and I can’t blame my iPhone today…
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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No problem Noctro. We all make mistakes. My post has a few typos in it as well. Just be thankful you don’t make as many mistakes as Doug Wilson. Your post would be illegible.
:D
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Holy shit.. you really hate the guy don’t you!
Though you have to give DW credit: it would be illegible, but extremely gracious nonetheless.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
To give credit to Doug Wilson would not be illegible. Rofl. Look up the word please before posting again.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I was referring to the post that DW would’ve written.
And I apologize that my grammar is more illegible than yours. I just like giving you shit because it annoys you… :) In that sense, you’re kind of like a Red Wings fan.
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
The post that DW would have written? What are you talking about?
You said “Though you have to give DW credit: It would be illegible, but extremely gracious nonetheless.”
Though “YOU” would have to give DW credit. You, meaning, me, the person you were referring to. Then you said, it would be illegible (if YOU, meaning me, gave him credit), but extremely gracious nonetheless.
You were clearly talking about me, and did not know what the word illegible meant. Now you’re trying to make an excuse.
When does school start up again? Then I’ll know to only post during school hours.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
If you’re going to be a fucktard and jump all over people for their typos, incorrect grammar, and ambiguous phrasing, you might at least try to take some time to read the posts before writing turgid, insulting paragraphs in response.
Bockerz said, basically, “If Doug Wilson were to write such a letter, it would be illegible and extremely gracious.”
But really, what the fuck is wrong with you?
by ievans on Sep 6, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s not what he wrote. He wrote “You have to give Doug Wilson credit. If you gave him credit, it would be illegible, but extremely gracious nonetheless.”
Nowhere does he write anything about doug wilson writing a letter to me, rofl. It can’t even be read that way by accident. It is not even close to saying that.
What’s wrong with me?
Well, I can read? Seems like that might be a problem for you.
Let the record show ievans said “what the fuck is wrong with you?” to me before i said anything mean to me. Saying that, even phrased as a question, is an insult, because it implies that he thinks something is wrong with me, and that it is just a matter of what, in his opinion. Therefore, he is asking me what it is that is wrong with me, because something must be wrong, in his opinion.
That’s an insult, buddy. Better look out. They might ban you. No, wait, that would require fairness. Nevermind.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Ah, here it is:
Narcissistic personality sisorder
Let the record show ievans said "what the fuck is wrong with you?" to me before i said anything mean to me.
You made a mistake in the above quote, but it’s telling that it’s all about you.
And before Marilyn vos Savant lays in on me, I mistyped “disorder” in the link. He should read it anyway.
You’re going to get on me for getting on you when you mistype disorder, even though you made fun of me for typing the wrong word by accident?
You couldn’t find anything of actual substance to make fun of me about, so you stooped to whatever you could find, a typo. Now I give you some of your own medicine, and it’s a crime. Don’t stoop to the depths of immaturity in the first place and it won’t be a problem.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
You seem to know a lot about disorders and complexes. That leaves two options: one, that you’re a psychiatrist, but that would require intelligence and education, so we can cross that off the list.
That leaves option two, that you’re a psychiatric patient with a few disorders yourself.
Now that fits.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions
“Let the record show ievans said “what the fuck is wrong with you?” to me…
I mention you, and what you said about me, therefore, by definition, my post was not all about me, because I mentioned you.
But, when it comes to you, on the other hand…
Narcissistic personality “sisorder?”
Rofl, could you have made a worse mistake at a worse time? Trying to make fun of me, and you include “sis” in your post.
“You made a mistake in the above quote, but it’s telling that it’s all about you.”
Someone thinks of himself as a sissy. Feeling like a pubescent girl with low self esteem even though you’re a boy syndrome?? Are you one of the four in five young adults suffering in the United States?
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you female? I have that ‘hopelessly, irrevocably devastated, but in the best possible way’ effect on females a lot.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Wikipedia jokes only work when wikipedia is relevant to the subject. Wikipedia has nothing to do what I said. “Proof needed” would have worked just fine. “[Citation needed]” on the other hand, shows a lack of creativity. It’s a recycled joke I’ve seen numerous times before. Think for yourself man. You have a brain. Use it. Do you see me following? I speak the truth, and I speak my thoughts, and they are mine alone, without fear of what people will think. Maybe you should do the same instead of sporting a recycled personality.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Wikipedia jokes only work when wikipedia is relevant to the subject.
[Citation needed.]
I speak the truth, and I speak my thoughts, and they are mine alone, without fear of what people will think.
[Citation needed.]
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
by ElvisVF101 on Sep 7, 2010 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
By the way, I don’t even know why you started arguing with me in the first place. That bockers guy made fun of me. I made fun of him back. You decided to insult me, and not him, for some reason…
Besides that, I don’t really understand it. Do you disagree with something I’ve said about the Sharks? What is the problem? i’ve come on here, shared some very well articulated opinions in a respectful fashion, not commented about other people, or their posts, until spoken to first. What exactly is the problem?
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions
The super sad thing is that there’s no real point in listing all the ways that you’re being a dick here. You are pretty much incapable of seeing yourself in a negative light, so it’s obvious to you that your posts are objective, insightful, impeccably argued, and respectful.
It’s annoying to deal with people like you here on this blog, but you’ve got to live in your skin every single day, where this shit is probably a daily occurrence. That’s actually pitiable.
Get a life dude..its just a typo
"The No. 1 thing (fans need to know): we’re going to do our damnedest to bring the Warriors to respectability on the basketball court." - Joe Lacob
A typo is when you hit something on the keyboard by accident. What he did is write something that made no sense, because he was trying to make fun of what I said, but did not understand the words he was using in his effort to do so, or something like that. When you’re trying to make fun of someone to begin with, and you fail in that attempt, you’re opening yourself up for some backlash. I took the highroad though after he started asking me some earnest questions.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 5:09 PM PDT up reply actions
"I had my picture taken with Owen Nolan, your argument is irrelevant."
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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by Noctro on Sep 6, 2010 6:38 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
(Thanks Elvis...)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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this isnt a competition. it wasnt meant to be anyway. my posts were meant to inspire a mature, respectful conversation about hockey, but immature, disrespectful people responded. still, it’s not too late.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice! but how do we know it’s you?
PS. MODERATORS READ THIS!!!
Whoever warned me, I just hope you warned ievans too. I was warned specifically for the psychiatry comments, but he’s the one that started that particular slew of insults. He accused me of narcissistic personality disorder, and “persecution complex,” and I get warned for calling him a psychiatric patient?
I’m just asking for fairness. If you want respect, and you want me to take you seriously, then you have to be fair. No one takes a judge seriously if two people commit murder, but he only convicts one. No one takes a policeman seriously if he only arrests one person when another person is standing right next to him committing the exact same crime. And, much more relevant, people don’t respect the law, or the “rules,” when they’re not being fairly upheld. Why should I stop insulting people when other people are insulting me, and not getting any flack for it? Either treat us all fairly, and scold anyone who insults another person, or scold no one and leave everyone be, including me. eivans and others clearly insulted me numerous times, and their first insults preceded my first insults.
please, fairness. is that too much to ask?
ps. i dont condescend to everybody, just the people below me.
by Buttercrunch7 on Sep 6, 2010 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice! but how do we know it’s you?
Mostly because I’ve met the majority of people here once or twice…BTW: full series is in the fanshots. That was taken last week.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Donate Blood + Play Hockey
Welcome to Fear the Fin...where we eat our own.
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Buttercrunch...
Everyone is treated with respect on FTF. Just for your knowledge, I am a long time FTF reader but rarely post. In reading your arguments, you have valid points. Others do also, but you have to respect others opinions, which you cleary do not by your posts. And your sooooo humble too….I have read most all of the posts so far, and I am sick of reading your longwinded shit without bringing anything of actual value to the conversation. You gave your 2 cents, cool, we FTF readers thank you. But in most of you’re posts you are being argumentative just because someone disagrees with your opinions. I gave you respect when I first started reading your posts, and I even agreed with some of your comments. But the fact that you give no one else respect on this site, you lost mine.
And if you are so smart buttercrunch, why don’t you go put in an application in to be GM. Oh wait, only your friends know your right. Until your sitting in DW’s hot seat, your shit stinks just as bad as everyone elses. Thats why this article is in the Armchair GM section.
by SJStoneS on Sep 6, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I skipped just about all his post’s because they are just garbage. All he is doing is insulting people and i really think it’s pathetic. We are all sharks fans! No need to belittle everyone because your stuck on your high horse.
Just to let you know, I went through each and every comment in this post after getting a heads-up that things were getting out of control. Yes, other posters have not been nice to you, but going through their posting history, their behavior in this thread (or whenever when they respond to you) is completely out of character. You, on the other hand, are constantly goading people and insulting their intelligence. I can count on one hand the number of comments where you have been respectful towards another member. You did not get warned for that specific comment, but for a culmination of comments you have made not only today and in this thread, but in previous weeks and on other accounts (which we have been pretty lenient about, to be honest). I used that comment as an example of what is getting you warned.
Also, this:
ps. i dont condescend to everybody, just the people below me.Is doing nothing to change my mind.
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Proud member of the "Doug Wilson for Governor" Club
Fools and Sages
as for this being my second strike, i hope you realize that in baseball, it requires 27 outs to beat a team. 3 strikes x 27 outs = 81 strikes total, so i have a ways to go. thanks for the early warning though. it’s good to keep track from the beginning i suppose.
it requires 27 outs to beat a team.
So all the voices in your head then, they are your team in this analogy? Or do you just have an elaborate system of mirrors?
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
literally made me lol
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
by PNK on Sep 7, 2010 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Sigh…FTF is becoming nearly unreadable at points. Most of the time it’s fun conversation, and then it degrades when one single person comes on. I really hope FTF’s comments don’t become the new WTC, because I really like talking here.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
I'm hoping it has to do with the lack of hockey going on...
Proud member of the "Bring back Semenov" Club !!
by idunno723 on Sep 6, 2010 11:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
In the absence of hockey
I find myself enjoying a good round of troll-bopping.
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Whack-a-Troll?
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
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Proud founder of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
Yes but....
At this moment I am more amused and entertained as any point this off season!!
Thnx butters… I’ll never forget you ;)
by skilletboy on Sep 7, 2010 4:14 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
WUT.
Did you not see Captain Serious and Stanley on the bus?! That was the most amusing thing this off-season.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
actually it isn’t the single person doing it … it’s all the reasonable people who insist on responding yet again to that single person. :)
Ever get the feeling we are on a collision course with reality?
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" -- Benjamin Franklin
by Angy on Sep 7, 2010 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s true, that doesn’t help.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 7, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
You have a point
And I’m certainly guilty of this. But I think I concur with skillet’s point. It’s more fun than I’ve had all off-season. But I should and do apologize to anyone who’s FTF experience has been tainted by this pointless pissing contest.
Again, give me some hockey! PLEASE!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Soon enough! :)
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Sep 7, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
my personal favorite
Correct me if I’m wrong (don’t actually, because I’m not), but…
I didn’t read much of the banter, but that one made me chuckle
by SharksFanTillDeath on Sep 7, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions
I must say that the problem with Buttercrunch7 isn’t his opinions. I’m not denying that you have knowledge in hockey, and in the Sharks. The problem is that you refuse to accept or even hear other opinions/arguments.
If I were to respond to one of your extremely long posts, you would reply by noting a grammatical error, and then using that error to nullify my argument. Hey, everyone makes mistakes when typing, especially in English. Because English is a bitch (ex: “i before e except after c” is completely fine unless you want to spell “weird” or “height”, etc.).
I don’t care if you post here. But your Yahoo!Sports-esque level of sportiness is going to be an issue (honestly, go check those comments out… they’d love you). Maybe you’re a little like Napoleon, and your height disappoints you. But get off of your horse and join us… we won’t mind.
P.S. Like other have mentioned, it’s been great making fun of you the past few.. hours. DW’s signings have left me indifferent to the state of the current Sharks team. My diagnosis: they’ll be just fine. But while I wait painfully for hockey to start, you have helped me find some entertainment. So, thank you. And by you, I mean YOU.
P.P.S: I probably had grammatical mistakes. SUCKS.
P.P.P.S: I’m competing with your post lengths. What are you going to do about it?
Nashty...
Proud member of the "We Love Ushankas Club"
Who did he p**s off when he was traded to burn his bridges here?
He was obviously against the trade and probably expressed the legendary Nolan intense feelings in someone’s direction. Jamison??
by Teemu Riihijarvi on Sep 7, 2010 8:45 AM PDT reply actions
Hate to have to do this on my birthday, whole in Napa..
But I’m going to ask everyone to simply ignore this guy. I will go ahead and take care of his IP when I get home (surprise surprise, he’s also logged in as boyledshark22 and sharlsrule15… Remember them?)
Please, until then, be more mature and just try to ignore the guy. He makes great points, but it’s regretfull that he can’t get down from his high horse long enough to realize that he’s just a commenter, and not the self proclaimed genius GM in waiting he proclaims himself to be.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Sep 7, 2010 8:46 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
I should be a P.I.
I had a strong suspicion it was boyledshark. He had a different writing style, however the same long winded posts.
by SharksFanTillDeath on Sep 7, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
awwwwwww
But I didn’t get a chance to play with the puppy!!!!
by skilletboy on Sep 7, 2010 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Happy birthday TCY! :D
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
I just want to say
I called this as soon as he started posting…
At least I’m a likeable douche bag. :)
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
http://www.fearthefin.com/2010/8/25/1650313/willie-mitchell-signs-with-la-kings#45237312
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
oh god lol
I was reading ESPN rumors and i saw a rumor titled “Sharks could still add d-man” and it made me so happy until i read the little tidbit below it saying, “But it may not happen until next offseason.”.
AHhhhhHgGGghHhhh!!
Is that even a rumor?
Hey everybody, I’ve got a hot rumor about the Sharks! Some time in the future they’re going to replace a roster player with a player from another organization!
Yeah. Eklund has us talking with Staal, but given last week's craziness, I'm wondering if I should actually give that one some time...?
Ok, Maybe not.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
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Staaaaaaal.
What are you talking about Noctro! That rumor is so gonna be the one thing Ek gets right. Well, except for the Seto part.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
Oh man. What I would give for that rumor to actually be true. I’m pretty sure Ek loves driving us crazy.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
He did call the Niemi signing, didn't he?
Let’s hope that the Staal signing is the other signing he will get right all year.
Don't let the name deceive you, I'm not just a Sharks fan but a Lakers, 49ers, Angels, Giants (and to a lesser extent) Capitals, and Titans fan.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Sep 7, 2010 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Rumors building up more… latest on twitter is the flames are going to offersheet him. others are quickly dousing that fire (ha) saying it’s completely false.
please to be exiting my eyebrow parade, son. You appear to be raining on it. - CTGray
That was wierd,kinda like watching a car wreck
Seriously though,happy birthday.Bring back Buster!
The dude abides
Be cool to animals but F#CK PETA!
"They didnt quiet a building,they quieted a nation!"
--WJC,january 2010
Nolan can contribute
While I’m okay with DW not signing Nolan for nostalgic reasons as I know once he retires he’ll probably retire a Shark. However my gut tells me the Sharks could use a veteran like him – he could be a similar spark plug like JR was.
The two sides talked a couple days ago, but I don’t think it’s the end all. It’s just a matter of getting the younger guys a look and some playing time in the preseason. If Nolan is patient, and he should be… he lives in San Jose in the off-season the Sharks will likely sign him probably prior to the games over seas in Sweden.
Buster can still score and McGinn-Coture-Nolan would be a great line.
If they do sign Nolan… imagine the cheers he’ll get from the crowd. I’d want to be at that game!!
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