Although compared often, Devin Setoguchi and Jonathan Cheechoo couldn't be more different
When Joe Thornton was traded to the San Jose Sharks in December of 2005, he had an effect on a great many things. On a macro level, the team was considered a legitimate contender for the first time in their history. Although they had made it as far as the Western Conference finals the season prior, the addition of Thornton helped to bring the spotlight to a non-traditional hockey market.
The effect Thornton had on the micro level was possibly more significant, as he catapulted a young forward to stardom. Twenty-five year old Jonathan Cheechoo, a second-round pick out of the small town of Moose Factory, Ontario , went on to score an NHL leading 56 goals that year.
Cheechoo quickly became a fan favorite, a direct result of his newly found offensive skill. His unique name didn't hurt either, and soon HP Pavilion was filled with train whistles and signs. He was a star.
That's possibly why it was so surprising to witness his downfall, a shocking turn of events for a player who had captured the hearts of the fan base. Just four seasons removed from his 56 goal campaign, Cheechoo was traded away from the team that made him a star. He is now a minor league player without a professional contract, struggling to find his way back to the NHL and recapture some of his former glory.
Cheechoo's decline is fresh in the minds of fans across the NHL, especially because he was a piece in the highly publicized trade which brought Dany Heatley to San Jose. Cheechoo's name is one that invokes phrases like "one-hit wonder" and "flash in the pan." People tend to forget that he had four consecutive seasons of 23 or more goals, but still, comparing a player to Jonathan Cheechoo is a black mark that implies that their best seasons are behind them.
Because of this fact, Devin Setoguchi can't be happy. As the winger continues to struggle to find the consistent goal scoring touch that made him a break-out star in his sophomore season of 2008-2009, comparisons to the former Shark Cheechoo continue to surface. With just nine goals in forty games this year, people are all too eager to create the link between the two players.
However, Setoguchi and Cheechoo couldn't be more different.
It's easy to draw the line connecting them; both players excelled and subsequently regressed with the Sharks. Both players had break out sophomore seasons (Cheechoo had 28 goals, while Setoguchi had 31). Both benefitted from some crisp Joe Thornton passes. Both quickly became fan favorites.
But despite these similarities, Setoguchi and the 2007-2009 version of Cheechoo are wildly different.
First, Setoguchi is just twenty-four years old and playing in just his fourth professional season. In a league where the average forward is 27 years old, Setoguchi is among the league's younger talent. The ceiling for the eighth-overall pick in the 2005 entry draft remains high.
Second, Cheechoo's decline was a direct result of his diminishing skating ability. He was never the fleetest skater, scoring the majority of his goals in the role of spot-up shooter even before he began to sustain injuries which would hamper his already below-average skating ability. In 2006, he suffered from a nagging knee injury. In 2007 it was problems with his groin which would affect him even further.
Setoguchi's main asset, on the other hand, is his skating. He's capable of blistering acceleration and maintaining that speed, and his hands are usually able to keep up with his feet. He did suffer a leg injury early last season, which slowed him during the year, but it appears as if that is far behind him. He's been quick to pucks all season.
The decline in Setoguchi's game can be partially attributed to that injury, however, but for different reasons. Early that season, Setoguchi was on a line with Joe Thornton and the newly acquired Dany Heatley. In those eleven games before suffering the leg injury, Setoguchi had seven goals.
Upon his return, Setoguchi was greeted with third and fourth line minutes for the better part of two months. Still nursing whatever injury had kept him out for nine games, Setoguchi didn't look at the top of his game and struggled to find consistency in his game. That struggle has continued into the new season.
However, he's spent most of this season on the lower lines as well. He's always been a player who has had issues with confidence; he commented on exactly that when he was a rookie in Ron Wilson's system. Now, with current coach Todd McLellan calling him out on multiple occasions, his confidence can't be much better.
There is a bright spot, though, and it's found in Setoguchi's shooting percentage. Although he's shooting just 9.5% now, he exceeded 12% shooting in each of his last two seasons. That number should normalize by season's end, sending Setoguchi to more expected scoring levels.
Setoguchi still has a lot to prove. But at 24, he has time to move past the slight hiccup in his career. It might be a case where he just needs some new surroundings, and with his name popping up everywhere in trade talks that could be a possibility sooner rather than later. Still, the talent is there and it's undeniable.
A regression in goals per game from .38 in 2008-2009 to .28 in 2009-2010 to .23 so far this year can raise eyebrows. However, comparing the young Setoguchi to a player who possibly won't see another minute in the NHL seems a bit premature. A trade might be necessary to bring in the impact player the Sharks are looking for, but we assume that Setoguchi will make any trade that sends him elsewhere look at least a tad bit foolish when he regains his scoring touch in the future.
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Great point
about confidence and playing on the lower lines. That’s like a catch-22 for the kid: he’s stuck on the lower lines because he’s not scoring, but he’s not scoring because his confidence on the lower lines is not very high. Lots of professional athletes have confidence issues, but that’s something he’ll need to get over on his own. The coaching staff can’t just toss an unproductive winger onto the top line just so they don’t hurt his fragile psyche, he has to earn those minutes. I don’t want to dump on the kid, he’s good and has tons of upside, but if he has no confidence in himself, the team and coaches won’t have confidence in him either. If that’s the case, he needs to see a sports psychologist and work these issues out. Who knows, could end up being a good investment for the team.
Sports psychologist?
Na, he just needs guitar lessons, a Marshall stack cranked to 11 and then maybe a good cry…
by sharkblood99 on Jan 24, 2011 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Hopefully, Seto won't feel as much like he's on a lower line soon, even if he's on the nominal 3rd line.
Wellwood and Ferriero have been a good fit so far. Seto could probably do well with that pair. Wellwood pushing, dangling and passing and Ferriero digging and chipping would lead to some chances to cycle his feet toward the net. Otherwise, Clowe or Pavelski goes to that line and Seto ends up with some combination of Jumbo/Patty/Heater/Couture. That’s a better set of three lines than we’ve had in a long while.
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Seto-Wellwood-Ferriero would be awesome to see
Erlich for President
by SharksFanTillDeath on Jan 24, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
We need to trade Seto for...
We need to trade seto for zap rowsdower, canadas greatest patriot
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jan 24, 2011 11:39 AM PST reply actions
I love you Zap Rowsdower.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Jan 24, 2011 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Sabbity sabbity Sowsdower, bibbity-bobbity Bowsdower….
It's nothing but crumpled porno and Ayn Rand.
by strongrobot on Jan 24, 2011 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Also, on defense (if he can make it past waivers)
We need a top defenseman? I have found him as well, EEGAH! brother of Chara
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jan 24, 2011 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
I'm instant streaming MST3000 ASAP
Erlich for President
by SharksFanTillDeath on Jan 24, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
I wonder if that new Larry Czonka movie is on...
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Csonka was a big reason that the Dolphins went undefeated
So Imagine what Rowsdower would do.
And I will be the one/ To hold Larry Csonka down / Kiss him so hard / I’ll take Larry Csonka’s breath away…
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jan 24, 2011 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
O... M... G.
I can honestly say that the last expectation my life could ever have, would be to see Zap Rowsdower grace the pages of Fear the Fin.
I remember watching this mind-numbingly so bad it was really kind of amusing film in the bowels of the early morning during my free trial of Netflix after it had come to Canada. I couldn’t believe such a film had been made, but of course, MST3K made sure I knew about it.
Still, since then, I kind of thought it was like a dream. That it couldn’t have been REALLY real. Yet it was. It was, and the proof stares me in the face.
Cheechoo's Goal Scoring Prowess
Touched on briefly in the post, but most people overlook/have forgotten/never noticed that Cheech was a 20-20 guy playing on a third line with Mike Ricci and Scott Thornton. That may have been our most well-rounded third line in history. Also, one of my personal favorites to watch.
I think Thornton-Ricci-Sundstrom edges them in the best franchise 3rd line category, but yeah Cheech was effective even before he became Jumbo’s go-to guy.
Man I just remembered how Niklas Sundstrom always used to pull up and look for the pass on the rush. That used to infuriate me so much, but that line just clicked.
"BEAT DAT BEAT!!!"
Hehe.
I’ve been playing NHL 2K on the Sega Dreamcast lately, because I got tired of NHL 11 being so damned glitchy and non-arcadey, and I just wanted to score 20 goals a game again.
In that game, San Jose still has some pretty depressing players like Dave Lowry, Ron Stern and Stephane Matteau. When you play the lines they’re on, you almost can’t move they’re so slow. lol.
Still, I’m destroying the competition :D
True That
I won’t lie, I’ve made that comparison between the two players before. But you do make a good point about skating ability. Cheechoo could barely skate (when compared to most other NHL players), whereas Seto’s strong point is his skating. While I think it was ok to compare them initially, its this difference in skating ability that should help Seto avoid falling down the same path as Cheechoo.
Touched on briefly in the post, but most people overlook/have forgotten/never noticed that Cheech was a 20-20 guy playing on a third line with Mike Ricci and Scott Thornton. That may have been our most well-rounded third line in history. Also, one of my personal favorites to watch
Agreed sirsharkie! I believe he was on that line after Niklas Sundstrom… that was also a great line.
My only real issue with Seto is that he is always trying to do the “cutesy” moves with the puck when he’s in the offensive zone. I give him a little cushion on this because he is young but when you’re not scoring goals, the best thing to do is just use your speed and protect that puck and shoot in the open lane. I don’t need you to try to attempt the Spin-o-Rama or do a between the legs pass to yourself. But other than that, I guess I don’t have too much critiqing to do.
Ah damn it… clicked the wrong buttons. Monday…
by winthecupsj on Jan 24, 2011 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
Sundstrom!! Wow, theres a name I had forgotten. Ekman wasnt that bad with that line either, just shows how complimentary both Ricci and Thornton were.
by sharkblood99 on Jan 24, 2011 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
The Sharks have been a little unlucky in some of their star “prospects”. Cheech ultimately had one superstar season, and 3-4 good ones. Seto has, so far, had one great season and then a string of mediocre ones.
I’m sort of hoping he doesn’t get traded, and that he finds the scoring touch that he definitely possesses. Unless he’s traded for another player who’s as young or almost as young as him, and provides some great offensive numbers, the team is going to have to make up it’s young talent. And on a team where the aging (former) first line has struggled, and the young player(s) have stepped up, getting older isn’t exactly the best option for the future.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
I think it'd be fun to see
Marleau Thornton Seto
Heater Couture Clowe
as our top 2 for a little while. See if we could really spark Seto by giving him back the line that made him so wildly successful.
Yeah i like those lines, though i’m not sure what do with Pavs and our 3rd line then. Can Wellwood play wing?
Ferriero/Pavs/Wellwood might make for a good scoring 3rd line.
TBH, with the way Couture is playing i think Pavelski is kind of expendable. A lot of teams in the league need good top line Centers and Pavelski can definitely fill that role, so he may have some serious trade value. I love Pavs and i don’t think he’d be worth trading going into the postseason just because that’s where were gonna need his clutch scoring ability, but if we can get a serious top pairing defenseman like Shea Weber or someone of that caliber then i think it’d be worth doing.
no way
Serious consideration to trading Pavelski now does not make sense because: 1) his contract is affordable; 2) Sharks have yet to generate offense from their top 3 lines on a consistent basis this season; 3) Couture’s contract isn’t up till 2012; 4) Doug Wilson really prefers players who show up in the playoffs; and 5) Pavelski, as much as I love the guy, is not a 1st line center. So his trade value isn’t as high as you think it might be.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
by Will Bulldozer on Jan 24, 2011 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
Like i said, it wouldn’t be smart to trade him now going into the playoffs unless we could use him to get a really good # 1 or 2 defenseman like Marc Staal, or Shea Weber or something.
Pavelski could definitely play 1st line center for a lot of teams. Not all teams are blessed with tons of talented Centermen like the Sharks. Like Doug Wilson was saying in an interview, there’s a huge demand for centers in the league right now. So maybe it’d be smart to strike while the iron’s hot?
I’m sure Calgary would love to get Joe Pavelski. I haven’t watched much of Jay Bouwmeester but we could probably get him or Regehr for Pavs.
It just feels like a waste playing Pavelski on a 3rd line without any of our other top 6 on his wing. Hopefully he can get something going for us on that 3rd line and we can have 3 serious scoring lines.
This is what I hate about the salar-cap NHL. Joe signs a cap-friendly deal to keep him with the Sharks for four years, when he could’ve certainly fetched more money with the Capitals. But he doesn’t. And now that Logan’s progressed faster than most thought, suddenly that makes Joe expendable? I just don’t buy that. Loyalty has to mean something in this organization. Joe, despite all his struggles this year, is one of those players on the team that gives his best effort on every shift.
If Joe was traded, it’d break my heart. Basically, I’d stop following the Sharks after that. There’s nothing Joe Pavelski could do that would merit trading him to Calgary. And certainly not for Bouwmeester. Bouwmeester sucks. His cap hit is ridiculous and he’s softer than a marshmallow. Regehr for Pavs? Not worth it either. Plank’s just gonna have to make exception for his man crush.
Shea Weber or Marc Staal for Pavelski? Yeah, keep dreaming there. Those two guys are untouchable.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
by Will Bulldozer on Jan 24, 2011 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think Pavelski will be traded either, as he is a staple on the point in our primary power play, used instead of another defenseman because of his right handed stick with his skillset.
Even if Couture did essentially supplant him on the 2nd line, he is still a valuable contributor, and with the addition of Wellwood, could see an upsurge of third line potential.
On top of all that, he is a solid player to juggle around in lines if things are stagnating, as he works well with all the players really (though obviously the support for him to score heaps isn’t there on the 3rd line, though hopefully a wellwood-pvas-ferriero line could spark some for him, alot of potential there).
I agree but..
A league w/o the cap would be terrible. NY would just buy the best team with tons of monies – like they do with baseball.
Would Heater-Couture-Clowe be the Hot Cloweture line?
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Something that doesn’t get enough emphasis that is the biggest commonality between cheech and seto is Thornton. You touched on it briefly, but realistically its huge. Each player had career years on a line with Thornton where there were staples on his line for most of their time in said season. After each players season however, they had limited time on a line with him and were mostly given lower line roles playing with far inferior playmakers on lines that had different priorities and expectations in game also getting less ice due to the nature of that. This having a bigger impact on cheech. As he was basically dumped down to the third and fourth lines his remainder as a shark. Seton has been shuffled 4 deep with no real consistent line past that season aside from stretches of him pavs and clowe being together. Even being on that line though there is a different role and dynamic.
by dannyschmanny on Jan 24, 2011 4:12 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Agreed
A part of me still thinks that if we signed Cheechoo and played him next to Thornton that he’d put some goals in the back of the net. I don’t think he’d get 50+ goals or anything but I wouldn’t be surprised if he got 30 or so goals. Maybe Cheech could score some goals playing with another talented center like Pavelski, and with all the great centermen we have these days we could afford to play Cheech on Pavs’ wing.
Hmm. We’re not as fast of a team anymore, and Cheech is even slower now than his heyday.
Frankly, I’d be surprised if Cheech could break 15 goals over a season now (maybe 20 if Gretzky circa ’83 or Lemieux circa ’93 was feeding him).
Seto, like Marleau, has wheels. That will keep you in the NHL for a lot longer if you’re going through a scoring slump.
Liftetime president of the Darren Turcott Q-Tip Dexterity Awareness Foundation
finally caved in, as @shampeon on the Twitternet
Oh and about the constant line changes.
They are definitely frustrating. I really look forward to the day that we finally figure out our best line combinations and stick with them, so players can start building chemistry with each other and really settle into their role on the ice; though i won’t hold my breath lol.
They could probably be a little more different
"Everybody had a part in this. As you can see, our fans love this. And we love them. And bring on the next team." -Joe Thornton
by waive kent huskins on Jan 24, 2011 5:18 PM PST reply actions
They are certainly different players, but had similar looking shots, and look somewhat similar… hence the comparison…
The biggest difference in my mind is that Setoguchi is not nearly as close to as good a player as Cheechoo at this point. Cheechoo was a much MUCH better competitor and has a better shot.
Cheechoo scored 28 goals his sophomore season without Joe Thornton. Setoguchi score only 3 more on Thornton’s line most of the season.
Cheechoo scored 37 the year following the Rocket Richard. He got hurt after that and scored 23.
Yes, it’s sad that Cheech is mostly done… but even looking objectively, he was CLEARLY a better player (although older) at the same amount of NHL experience than Setoguchi.
They are different players
What stands out most to me is that Cheechoo always provided the rare intangibles. He was always willing to stand in front of the crease and fight it out with Chris Pronger for positioning. He gave the same amount of effort every shift. No one could question Cheechoo’s heart, desire, or effort. He was also an above-average PKer.
Seto is a different character. Perhaps not as much this season, but in the past, he could often be accused of not learning from his mistakes— which made perhaps more difficult to coach. His effectiveness ebbs with his lack of confidence too much at the professional level such that on some nights, no one knows which Seto will show up. What I do appreciate about Seto is that he does have a higher ceiling than Cheech. If he can get into an environment where he doesn’t have to always look over his shoulder and wonder if he’s in the coach’s doghouse and if he can have some stability with his linemates then he should do well. Unfortunately, San Jose is not that place for him.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
Embrace the "deke" Seto!
The “deke” is your friend.
(Please see the latest “SharkByte” for the reference)
TRADE HIM
trade him plain and simple. hes a good player that has a lot of potential and will likely fulfill that potential somewhere else. the sharks as everyone knows still need one or two more defense men in order to seriously contend not only this year but for the years to come. the sharks do not need another 30 goal scorer they already have too many of those, which is why he is playing on the third and fourth lines as mentioned above. that is why confidence is in high demand, too many chiefs not enough indians. the great teams have clearly defined roles that each player and line plays. not everyone is a goal scorer. let the scorers score, the checkers check and the enforcers enforce.

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