Sharks Gameday: The Line Blender
by Mr. Plank on Nov 17, 2011 3:00 AM PST
in Sharks Game Previews
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Heading into San Jose's 2011-2012 campaign it's doubtful Sharks Head Coach Todd McLellan ever figured he would be splitting up Patrick Marleau and Joe Thornton for an extended period of time.
McLellan has always been a fan of the line blender when things aren't going well for his team, tinkering with the parts under the hood much like a mechanic. He isn't afraid to make a switch in the middle of a game, usually in the second period if San Jose is off to a slow start, but that really has never applied to the duo of Thornton and Marleau. For the most part McLellan has swapped the right-winger on that side of the ice, keeping his power unit of Marleau-Thornton on the ice together at both even strength and the power play.
Marleau has put up the best numbers of his career playing alongside Thornton on the Sharks top line-- 125 goals over the last three plus seasons, the best in the NHL during that time frame besides Alex Ovechkin (145) and Steven Stamkos (130). That's elite company, and while it might not all be due to Thornton's buttery hands and eagle-like vision, a lot of it is related to how well Thornton can open up defenses from behind the net and slip the puck to his teammates like a silent assassin. Hard to imagine how a mammoth can be so graceful but we aren't one to question things.
So when McLellan put Marleau at center earlier this season, a position Marleau played for most of his career but hadn't done regularly under McLellan, there was some trepidation over how it would turn out. The center position is one that requires much more engagement on a shift by shift basis. You have more responsibility, less ability to use your speed to stretch defenses on the breakout, and are counted on to provide a much more aggressive defensive presence low in your own zone. For one of San Jose's main speed threats this had the potential to limit his effectiveness, decreasing his overall scoring numbers in the process.
As it turns out, Marleau has fared much better than expected.
During the 2011-2012 season Patrick Marleau and Joe Thornton have played together at even strength for a total of 135:40, which averages out to roughly nine games based on their ES TOI per game totals. During that time Marleau posted one goal and four assists, the majority of those due to playing with a red-hot Joe Pavelski, and finished a +2 in the plus/minus category. He totaled 17 shots on net, and was a +19 in the shots for minus shots against category.
Marleau has played 96:21, about six games, without Thornton this season. During that time frame he's been much more effective at putting the puck in the net-- three goals on 17 shots at even strength will attest to that, even if it comes without any assists. Where Marleau has seen some minor problems is in the defensive end of the ice.
By all visual accounts he's been more engaged in the play (which could have something to do with the number of touches centers see compared to wingers), and a respectable +1 over that time span shows he isn't getting buried out there defensively. However, a -9 in the shots for minus shots against category does show what playing without Thornton can do to your underlying performance. Thornton is so good at driving the play and retaining possession that when you leave his wing you're bound to see some more time in the defensive zone.
For those who are intimidated by big walls of text, here's a table of what I just said:
The big question is whether or not splitting up Thornton and Marleau is in the long term plans of the team. Judging by their success together over the last three seasons, and the wealth of centers San Jose has on the roster, it's difficult to think that they'll stay apart for the entire year. With Marleau in the midst of one of his infamous scoring binges right now however, and receiving rave reviews for his tenacity on the puck, McLellan won't want to tinker too much with his center position as long as he's receiving results.
Until the next disappointing first period strikes again of course. Because when that happens, the line blender makes everything moot.
Prediction: Sharks win 3-1. Goals by Marleau, Pavelski, and Burns. Detroit's historical dominance over San Jose continues to erode, as McLellan extends his overall record against the Red Wings to 16-9-1. I waste even more time over at Hockey CSSI this weekend, sending site administrator (and Winging It In Motown lead author) JJ in Kansas creepy love letters throughout the season.
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Joe "the graceful mammoth" Thornton
I like it. I still can’t believe Patty is 3rd in the NHL in goals over the past 3 seasons and has never really been in the Richard Trophy discussion over that time. For all the crap I know I’ve given him (along with most of section 224 and plenty of FTF commenters) I sometimes forget how great of asset he really is to this team regardless of where he plays. I really hope he spends the rest of his career here and will be the 1st number retired at the tank (hopefully after a Stanley Cup banner).
"I will BREAK you"- Douglas Murray
Always loved Patty...
…He’s so damn awkward. I really want to know what he is like in the room. Is he the last to get every joke? Is he the one who always tries to butt into conversations late. “Wait, what are you talking about?” I can just imagine McGinn and Couture getting pissed when they hear Patty say “Good news guys, my wife is letting me come out tonight!”
The good news, he is always the fastest player on the ice, and he can flat out put the puck in the net. He even fought Kevin f-ing Bieksa in the playoffs last year. Im with you Bdub, I would love to take my kids to the Google Center in 2025 and show them Patty’s number hanging from the rafters right next to a couple of Stanley Cup banners.
P.S. The Richard is given to the player who scores the most goals. Pretty cut and dry as to who gets it every year.
Another late night, huh?
Crazy that you’re always up to post these at exactly 3 AM.
by Very Serious Person on Nov 17, 2011 7:28 AM PST reply actions
You are a very serious person
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
Go Sharks!
While Marleau’s CORSI numbers may suffer a little bit w/o Thornton, he’s seeing the other teams top line (has a higher QualComp), I think that might have a bit to do with those numbers as well.
I like Patty at Center, he’s bigger, a better skater and right now, a better two way player than Couture – it makes matching up against other teams with 2 very good lines easier. However, I doubt he stays there…
On the Detroit side, I’m really looking forward to watching Brendon Smith play, that kid is going to be a fantastic d-man!!
Wait? The Sharks play hockey tonight?
All these dang long breaks are killin me! LOL! Glad to be able to watch some Sharks hockey on TV tonight, especially against my most loathed team.
Found out I’m expecting a new little Sharks fan this off season. Time for HP to put in another seat to make the capacity 17,563. :)
Sharks win 4-2… goals by Pavelski, Handzus, Braun/Demers (whoever ends up playing tonight), and Clowe.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
Find me on Twitter @njahoda
I waste even more time over at Hockey CSSI this weekend, sending site administrator (and Winging It In Motown lead author) JJ in Kansas creepy love letters throughout the season.
Anyone who is interested in seeing how players play with and against others needs to check this site out. It’s been great for us Wing fans to debate whether Datsyuk and Zetterberg belong together or apart.
and if you're wondering on that
they belong apart (unless you’re a Sharks fan).
Just under 2 hours of shared ice time and the whole team is shooting about 5.5%
Meanwhile, their opposition has 8 goals on 41 shots on net (19.5%)
So if you see Datsyuk and Zetterberg together tonight, don’t clench up so tight.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
i was actually wondering more about those letters…
"If you aint cheatin, you aint tryin"
by serrapadre716 on Nov 17, 2011 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
Always love reading the CSSI
Lots of great insights
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
by ElvisVF101 on Nov 17, 2011 11:06 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I only do CSSI analysis for Wings games, but we have official stats breakdowns for every team that are tough to find. The shared ice time stuff is awesome.
I’d love it if we could find raters for every team to do CSSI analysis though.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
Cannot WAIT for this game...
It has been too long since I’ve seen teal on the ice.
Also… SD fans… Randy Jone’s All American Grill does have Center Ice. Watched the Phoenix game there Saturday, then participated in the late night happy hour to promptly forget it.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Nov 17, 2011 9:15 AM PST reply actions
It's Thursday
might be wearing black.
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey. Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
"He doesn't miss many of those!" --Randy Hahn
Shameless plug for my music.
Kick some ASS tonight
The Sharks better start the game focused and play a solid 60min. WIN is all I. Want.
Go Big or Go Home
by ChangoT on Nov 17, 2011 9:27 AM PST via mobile reply actions
Can't wait!
SJ-DET games are always super entertaining.
Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.
Twitter! rmorse05
Go Sharks!
It’s been a while (considering I missed the game against Phoenix too). Games against Detroit are always fun too!
"Clearly, you don't understand anything about defeating trolls!" - Troy, Community
Free Demers!
Top players together or apart. The Coach's conundrum.
I really think that both Thornton and Patty look better apart; it may be one of those things, like Joe’s now formidable 2-way play, that needs time to develop. Plainly put, Patty just looked dead-on-ice until he was stuck in the middle (queue George Harrison), and bang! Back came his speed.
The thing that has impressed me the most, though, is the development of the “1-3” Trap for the PK. Pollak hit on it a little bit in his Tuesday column, but, what it really boils down to is a change in how the players attack defending the net on the PK. The way is was done in the past is a player took responsibility for one attacker. the downside is that there was a 5th attacker that no one was assigned to, but everyone needed to watch. This takes that whole play mechanic away, and focuses all eyes on the puck, not the player.
How it works: 3 players collapse outside the crease near (G), and one forward focuses on challenging the shooter. What ends up happening is that this play forces the attacking team to dump around the boards, which gives our Defense 1st chance at the puck for a dump down to the far end. In that respect, it’s almost like a PK version of 1-3-1, except the 3 defenders are far more close to the Goalie, taking away shots from the slot and circles. The thing I really like about this is that it pushes one (D) to the weak side of play, which nailed us a lot last year (playoffs and otherwise).
All the above said, I believe that the key to all of these changes is TMac pushing versatility; the sooner the top lines get used to the shuffle, the sooner we stay unpredictable in the line department until the puck drops. The sooner we learn different PK strategies, again, the sooner the coach can adapt play without risking GA. How serious it this? To risk GOLG having a heart attack, Tmac was even setting Mitchell up with Jumbo on a few of the drills yesterday, and both were doing great (one timer practice).
Sidenote: The Sharks did some shootout practice as well yesterday; a bit more than I’ve seen before. Greiss is definitely a wall in this scenario.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
Damn.
“Marleau…125 goals over the last three plus seasons, the best in the NHL during that time frame besides Alex Ovechkin (145) and Steven Stamkos (130).”
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Overrated and overpaid…for sure…
Wait, that’s a lotta goals. OK, off to re-evaluate my life now.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
Tweet Tweet.
by ZeroIndulgence on Nov 17, 2011 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
Does anyone know if they still sell the 90’s sweaters in the Shark Store?
Chi MapleShark has conformed to nhlcheapshot's "One Team Rule"
Go Sharks!
by Swoops on Nov 17, 2011 12:03 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Nope.
But you can occasionally find their classic CCM sweaters over at Sharks Ice on 10th Street. I believe it’s what little inventory is left. Usually super-cheap. (<$50)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
Seen some originals in the Shark Store
No clue on sizing (I think they’re all blank), but looks like the original teal jersey is being sold in there
Could it be splitting Marleau - Pavelski is more important?
I think the split of Marleau/Pavelski might be more important than Marleau/Thornton. Both Pavelski and Marleau are natural centers, but both fire a ton of shots on net. Maybe putting Marleau/Pavs together, there weren’t enough shots to go around. Just another random thought to add to the equations!
Last season
Marleau with Pavelski at even-strength (3:43:18)
Sharks scored 10 goals, allowed 9. Took 126 SOG, allowed 93
Marleau without Pavelski at even-strength (17:23:54)
Sharks scored 51, allowed 52. Took 521 SOG, allowed 529.
Adjusted for per/60
W/Pavelski: 2.7GF, 2.4GA, 33.9SOG/F, 25SOG/A
WO/Pavelski: 2.9GF, 3GA, 30SOG/F, 30.4SOG/A
It looks like splitting Marleau and Pavelski doesn’t have much of a positive impact offensively, but has a noticeable negative defensive impact.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Then again
223 minutes is not a very good sample size.
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
And because looking at this stuff is fun
Marlea/Pavelski together so far this season at even-strength (2:24:47)
Marlea/Pavelski separate (1:27:14)
with: 8/5/85/70
without: 4/4/43/47
Which per/60 is:
with – 3.3 / 2.1 / 35.2 / 29
without – 2.8 / 2.8 / 29.6 / 32.3
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
awesome stuff… thanks JJ
i’d be curious to see Marleau’s indvidual SOGs with Pavs
That said, obviously it’s better to keep those 2 together….
It's available on the site
This season.
Marleau with Pavelski: 20 (8.2 per 60)
Without: 14 (9.6 per 60)
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Oh wow that’s awesome. Where do i find this stuff? On Winging it in Motown it all looks to be specific to the Wings.
it’s on hockeycssi.com (if you’ll forgive the self-promotion)
by J.J. from Kansas on Nov 17, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
FYI: If you wanted to donate to the widowed families of the Lokomotiv plane crash, and can't make it tonight...
…you can make donations by buying bracelets at their memorial site.
They offer two different types:
a silicone bracelet ($10),
and a colored jade prayer bracelet ($50 adult / $25 youth))
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
by Noctro on Nov 17, 2011 2:39 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
... I thouht those were anal beads.
Am I a bad person?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Nov 17, 2011 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Yes.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
I don't know if I can watch this game but BEAT DETROIT!!!!!!
GO SHARKS
Waffles, Digimon, SETOGUCHI
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
Like manga, sci fi, webcomics, and Metaphorical Bazookas? Check out http://firework.the-comic.org!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Nov 17, 2011 3:52 PM PST reply actions
OT but just saw this on the Sharks website
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFE0TmyMFxU
Great interview with Marleau and hilarious at the end. Suck it Brodie!
Daniel Erlich for President
\/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\/\/\
GO SHARKS!!!
by SharksFanTillDeath on Nov 17, 2011 4:44 PM PST reply actions
Haha
That is one more reason I love that guy.
by Chicago Shark on Nov 17, 2011 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
I'm all for shuffling the lines...
But I’m opposed to putting any of the Top 6 on the bottom 2 lines.
Also:
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
thank god
found a drew and randy feed
http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/92510/1/watch-san-jose-sharks-vs-detroit-red-wings.html
"Duh duh... duh duh... duh duh... Salsa shark! We're gonna need a bigger boat! Man goes into cage, cage goes into salsa. Shark's in the salsa. Our shark." - Randall Graves
The Lone Niclas Wallin Fan
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