Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Despite Relocation Drama, Coyotes Overcome Adversity

What's bothering me about the Niemi situation.

First of all, I have to say I'm a huge fan of the new deal DW gave to Niemi as with the way he's performed this year (and especially of late) this signing seems to be in the category of a steal. Also, before I bring up any of my other points, I think it's common knowledge that Niemi has really hit his stride right now. But, I have two points I want to make: 1) With all the games Niemi is playing, is McClellan inadvertantly setting us up for another dissappointing postseason? and 2) How does the new Niemi deal affect Alex Stalock, who was assumed to take over the job in the future?

In all my years of being a Sharks fan (which is only 12 even though I made it just sound significantly longer), I can't remember a year our number one goalie (which was usually Nabokov) didn't play a vast majority of the games; which usually ended with him finishing with about 70 games played. Then, when playoffs rolled around and we were a top seed, the fatigue of not having enough off time showed up. I doubt I need to remind everyone of our Ducks incident in the first round a few years back. In that series, Nabokov looked pretty bad to me. Granted, the Sharks weren't scoring, but Nabokov certainly didn't help the cause. In all the years the Sharks have been in the playoffs, top seed or not, the farthest they've gone, as we all know, is to the Western Conference Finals. Not once in all their 20 years did they reach the Cup. Is having one goalie start a vast majority of the games contributing to that? I think so.

The Relevance of my last point to Niemi is this: I read on my recap of the Detroit game that Niemi has started 20 CONSECUTIVE GAMES!!!!! I know some of this has to deal with the way the team's playing, Nitty being hurt, and the inexperience of Carter Hutton. But, 20 games!?!?!?!?! That's insanity. I don't care how hot you are, everyone needs a break at some point. I just don't want our team's postseason play to suffer due to the fact that Niemi's playing too many games now.

The second point I wanted to make concerns the guy I've personally taken a strong liking to, my boy, Alex Stalock. Since about 2008, I've been rooting for him to be the next great Sharks goalie to provide us long-term with stability and great play. Granted, the stability part may be questioned by some at this juncture because of his injury that has left him out for the remainder of this year. However, the fact remains that he is the best goalie in our minor league system and has been regarded by scouts to have an excellent NHL career. My question is would the Niemi deal block this from happening for Stalock? Niemi's been great this year but I believe Stalock's the future. If you remember, and I know it was only one game, he played great in relief when the Sharks had that comeback win against Pheonix that got them on this really hot streak. So, I'm just wondering what would happen along that avenue. I am happy to have Niemi, though.

This item was created by a member of this blog's community and is not necessarily endorsed by Fear The Fin.

Comment 12 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Stalock

The injury Stalock sustained is going to keep him sidelined for quite a while and that type of injury could have lingering effects. Won’t know until he’s ready to start training again.

On that note, if Stalock is ready for training camp he’s going to have to work himself back into game shape, spending next season in the AHL is a good bet. Should he get back to where he was pre-injury and is ready for the NHL, there’s no reason the Sharks won’t give him a chance to compete and it’ll be up to him to earn the starts.

It was a really, really bad time for him to get hurt – I’m a huge fan of his as well and from everything I’ve read about him he’ll do whatever he has to do to get to the next level and succeed, those are the kind of players that the Sharks org loves.

by milanahalek on Mar 5, 2011 8:25 AM PST reply actions  

The 20 games in a row isn't that big of a deal

I think its more the 70+ starts in total for a regular season that wears a goalie out. The 20 in a row is good for Niemi because goalies get into grooves and want to get out there every game while in them. He clearly had a bit of a struggle during the losing streak, but found his groove and probably would want to play ever game. Since he shared time for the first third of the season his work shouldn’t wear him out that much come playoff time. I’d say he’s finally getting close to the point where you could say he’s gained the confidence and trust in team to be able to give him a game off every now and then. Maybe Nitty can get back in there just in time to give him some games off in the last week or two of the season.

by Fakers Stink on Mar 5, 2011 1:18 PM PST reply actions  

first of all...

When I look at it carefully, I would not call either of the last two postseason campaigns (under McLellan’s tutelage) a disappointment. The year we lost to Anaheim in the first round isn’t really that big a deal; we had the talent, we just didn’t have the coaching at that time because it wasn’t just McLellan’s first year with the Sharks, it was his first year as a HEAD coach at the NHL level. Plus, we were up against a better conditioned team. Think about it, a rookie McLellan vs a well experienced Carlyle, an aging Nabby against a bright and young Hiller, and other ways Anaheim was somehow better than us that year. As for last year, it wasn’t that disappointing because we simply lost to the better team. Chicago had better defense and goaltending, though I would say our offense was pretty evenly matched with theirs; they too had a more experienced coaching staff. But none the less, with the kind of progress McLellan has made and the hardships he taught the Sharks to overcome (i.e. game 3 of the series vs Colorado), I am more than satisfied with our coaching and have strong faith in him.

As for Niemi, he won’t end up starting nearly as many games as Nabby did last season; he will get some rest very soon. Plus, he is much younger than Nabby, which means regardless of how many starts he has the rest of the regular season, it shouldn’t have that much of an effect of his game during playoff time. When you look at it, over the past few years, the Cup winning goaltender has never started more than about 3/4 of their regular season. Last year, Niemi started just under half of Chicago’s regular season games but was named starter for the playoffs. This year, he will end up with more regular season starts than last year but he won’t start the rest of this regular season; I am sure the coaching staff well understands he will need a rest soon regardless of how long his hot streak continues.

I believe once free agency of summer 2012 rolls around, Nitty will walk as a free agent so a spot can finally be made for Stalock because like many of us, I believe him to be the future of Sharks home-grown goaltending. In fact, I am very excited to see him become a full part of the roster. However, Niemi’s future with us shouldn’t stop Stalock from shining; perhaps they could split the starts just like how Nemo split with Huet during his season with Chicago.

by zack007attack on Mar 5, 2011 4:51 PM PST reply actions  

Vs the Ducks I kind of agree about the coaching thing. The Ducks changed their system and adapted to how we played. We didn’t respond. And so we got worked. Again though it was goal production too, it didn’t really come down to Nabby not making saves it came down to us not responding well enough.

Last year’s Chicago sweep also was goal production. Each of those games were 1 goal games. Couple bounces our way, we coulda taken it to a longer series and likely been able to adapt better.

by VVhirlwind on Mar 5, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions  

I have to disagree with both big time on the Ducks series. People always want to gloss over the real reason we lost that series. They tend to forget that most of the second half of the season, we were missing 9 starters. 9!! and then we got them all back for the playoffs. a few of them got into maybe 2 games at the end of the season? the rest hadn’t played in months and were just inserted in expected to perform for the series. So the fact that you had all these guys coming off of injury with rust and putting them against (at the time) the hotest team in the league going into the playoffs is why we really lost.

by dannyschmanny on Mar 7, 2011 9:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Goalie fatigue is a myth in my opinion. Goalies aren’t skating end to end every shift, and more importantly they’re not getting body checked. I can understand the fatigue level for the players in front of a goalie because of the sheer effort they put in moving all over the ice constantly, on top of taking hits. Bruises need time to heal, even if you can play through them your body will still be that bit slower etc.

Goalies receive none of that physical abuse. The only thing a goalie needs to worry about is the mental game. If you play a lot of games, as most goalies say they want to, if you play poorly then you can doubt yourself which then snowballs into worse play etc.

So the whole “OMG HE’S GOING TO BE TIRED FOR THE PLAYOFFS” shtick is retarded in my eyes. People say oh he needs a night off, blah blah. Even if he doesn’t get the start he still practices with the team. Its not like the backup goalie just sits there the whole time reclined back and relaxing. It is just only during the game itself where he’s inactive.

Now I’m not trying to say that goalies aren’t athletic or need conditioning, obviously they do. Takes a lot of work to be able to move side to side constantly. I’m just saying that giving them 60 minutes off of ice time isn’t going to help them physically.

It is for this reason that teams ride hot goalies. It is for this reason backups playing well can supplant previous defined starters. It is based off how you play. You switch goalies to ease mental pressure off their backs as well as giving them the sideline change of perspective, which can help them notice things about how their team plays under pressure from a different point of view. On top of the simple fact of letting the backups play so that they don’t get rusty themselves in the higher pressure of a game situation. Etc.

But when a goalie can take it mentally, and is good enough to be that starter, you play him as much as he wants to play. That is why Brodeur is one of the best goalies in the world. That is why we played Nabby the way we did.

It wasn’t just some magical switch that came on during playoff time that he suddenly was “tired” and then didn’t play that well. Our playoff woes lay totally on the team as a whole. When we under perform in the playoffs, for the most part is it goal production.

There is a reason why people say playoff hockey is different from the regular season, and it is because teams adapt to their competition’s style, and the players themselves have enormous motivation to empty their tank every night and perform. Players are more willing to sacrifice the body to block shots. Etc.

Our woes have been that historically we haven’t risen to the level necessary combined with injuries and being slow/unable to adapt to how teams change their style to play us long term. Not goalie fatigue.

by VVhirlwind on Mar 5, 2011 11:19 PM PST reply actions  

Goalie fatigue is different from skater fatigue

You’ll see overworked goalies do things like drop their glove hand, or not stay in their squat.

Goalies have to squat for 60 minutes. That’s not taking a body check or skating 200 feet, but it’s not nothing.

It’s true, backups still practice. They have a workload too. But practice isn’t the game either.

I’ll agree that goalie fatigue hasn’t ever stopped us. But it’s not exactly part of the solution.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 5, 2011 11:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Guess I just don’t see it. The things I associate with goalie fatigue is just generally slow reaction speed which tells me they’re not mentally in the game, so things like a point shot going in glove side that normally would have been caught wasn’t because his motion was off target and/or late.

The squat may not be nothing, but because of pad and gear size its angle is deceiving, most of the time they’re just upper body hunching, saving the squat for pucks coming past center. On top of that, when the puck is in their zone they’re constantly repositioning with small movements, which make a huge difference in the strain it takes for the squat because they’re constantly shifting instead of trying to rigidly keep their legs locked in that form.

Basically, i’m arguing that sure, Niemi could use a couple nights off, but that is only for a mental “load off” type of relief, of the kind where it is like “ok I don’t have the team on my shoulders this night”, compared to what most people are worried about him being stretched thin physically over which they would think some rest would help him “refill the tank”.

by VVhirlwind on Mar 6, 2011 3:37 AM PST up reply actions  

Seems a bit tomayto-tomato

Whether dropping your glove because of mental or physical fatigue is academic if the glove drops and the puck goes in, just as it’s academic if more gaps open up in a goalie’s stance due to mental or physical fatigue.

I do recall though that Mikka Kiprusoff stated a few seasons back that he often had problems with his hip flexors as the season went on. I imagine this is a bigger problem for butterfly goaltender, since they have to rely on hip and groin flexibility a lot more than a stand-up-pad-stacking goalie.

Basically, it really doesn’t matter if his fatigue is mental or physical. The point is, fatigue is bad, and we shouldn’t invite it going into the post-season. It takes a little luck to win in the post-season, and part of that luck is staying healthy. Mental health is as big a part considering how important goaltending is.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 6, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions  

It actually matters quite a bit. There is quite a difference between losing focus with wandering thoughts pulling your reaction time down, and your muscles physically aching for the reflex dulling.

One is fixed by rest, and the other isn’t.

That is my whole point, that I see goalie fatigue being a mental thing. It isn’t something just to be solved by having him not play that night’s game. It is all about a goalie’s confidence level, determination level, etc. Knowing you have a capable backup that can go in and play for you and not let the team down (and thus you letting the team down essentially by not playing) is huge for the mental game.

You ride hot goalies because their focus is there every game. When it starts to slip and their confidence takes some hits, then its time to switch to make sure neither goalie gets rust in case of injuries, as well as to ease the mental burden to regain confidence through practice and switching back off games etc.

Not some simple physical ache buildup that they can not play a goalie for 2-3 games in a row and then he’ll be good for another 15-25, etc.

Thus for my belief that goalie fatigue isn’t fatigue at all, it is just a goalie’s confidence level. So you’re not inviting it at all by playing a lot of starts, unless they start playing like shit of course. Niemi played like he did in the playoffs because of his crazy mountain of confidence he built up in the reg season games he played up to the playoffs when he took the starting job.

But whatever, thats the last I’ll comment. No need to push my point further, I think i’m starting to repeat myself.

by VVhirlwind on Mar 10, 2011 7:15 AM PST up reply actions  

I don't mind the discussion

I think there’s a lot of merit to your position, and I like to hear what you have to say.

I do disagree that rest doesn’t help mental fatigue. I agree entirely that confidence and mental health are the biggest players in “mental fatigue”. But I do think a few games rest DOES help. If you don’t have to be in the pressure cooker every night, it can help you be sharper on occasion. I mean, it’s why office workers take vacation! Even if you’re not doing intense physical labor, repetition and constant pressure aren’t good for anyone.

A game off to watch your backup do his thing, and watch your team from a different perspective can be immensely valuable for a netminder. Otherwise, dealing with the pressure of having to be “on” for 82 games (or whatever number) would crush most people. I know professional athletes are generally better able to cope, but even they have their limits.

A good coaching staff knows just how hard to push athletes to those limits and beyond without breaking a guy. I’ve been critical of McLellan and company on more than one occasion because I think they have no idea where those limits are.

But that’s a whole ’nother debate…

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 13, 2011 7:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Goalies don’t really have to squat for 60 minutes. Unless they are on a really bad team and the puck is in the Defensive zone the entire game. Our team the last number of years has been a puck control team and goes generally can get long stretches of play in the offensive zone. When a puck is at the other end of the ice, goalies don’t just sit there in a squat.

by dannyschmanny on Mar 7, 2011 9:41 AM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The Official SB Nation blog of the San Jose Sharks.

Managing Editor

Bender-smoking_small The Neutral

Authors

Pavs2_small idunno723

Poseypavelski_small mymclife

Shark_trek_small jwizzle241

Ovechkin-russia-080518-584_small Ivano M

Xbox360hockey_small Jon Allred

Moderators

2296_s_small Nael M.

Mikeyicon_small ElvisVF101

Z_small ZeroIndulgence

313483_2054510893373_1562580382_31984672_1965025_n_small James Brady