Shark Month: February Player Rankings

by FTF Staff on Mar 7, 2011 3:00 AM PST in Shark Week Player Rankings

"Shark Month" will be a piece that runs on Fear the Fin where Plank and TCY will track the progress of the players as the calendar flips (there may be some extra games thrown in here or there, but such is life). The players are listed alphabetically, the arrows will indicate the change on a monthly basis. We will also keep track of our top five Sharks players each month.

Goalies___________	Trend	Notes
Antti Niemi		You'd be hard pressed to find a goaltender on the planet, nay, the universe, playing better than Antti Niemi right now. We've heard Xr!z Xcvxs is having a pretty good season out on HD 209458b, but we think Niemi still gets the edge here (Xcvxs' fourteen arms give him an unfair advantage over Niemi's T-Rex arms, which was a big factor in our decision). Owner of a .937 SV% and a 1.76 GAA since the beginning of February (prior to the Dallas game), Niemi has been lights out since 2011 began. He's definitely the biggest reason San Jose has gone 17-3-1 since their six game losing streak.
Antero Niittymaki		He hasn't played a game since January 13th due to a nagging groin injury, but had lost the starting role to Niemi long before that. Niittymaki has returned from injury as of Saturday and will back up Niemi for the foreseeable future. We like the fact that McLellan now has a goalie in his back pocket to give Niemi a break once in awhile (in theory), but judging by the workload McLellan gave Nabokov last season as well as comments about Niemi playing better with more starts, expect Nitty to Finnish more periods on the bench than on the ice.

Defensemen_______
Dan Boyle		We were afraid that a long term injury to Dan Boyle would equal doom for the Sharks, but so far, San Jose has continued winning without their all-star minute-eating defenseman. That's not to say that the Sharks don't miss Boyle; he's the heart and soul of the defense and their best point option on the power play. He has been skating before practice, but a return date has not been set. Giving Boyle some rest down the stretch is a definite positive for the team, but if he is still out in late March, grab your nearest stuffed animal and start to worry.
Justin Braun		It's pretty obvious what the organization told Braun to work on when they sent him back to Worcester last month: improve your defensive game. Braun hasn't been scoring as he did in his first call up (pointless in four games) but a pair of posts and excellent skating ability through the neutral zone show that he's a definite contributor on the squad. With an impressive eighteen minutes per game on average, Braun could be a nice X-Factor down the stretch. 2010 Jason Demers anyone?
Jason Demers		Demers has seen the biggest minutes increase of any defenseman with Boyle's absence, and he's been reliable defensively in those minutes. We've highlighted his lack of scoring as a concern, but he's been as dependable as Boyle himself minutes wise (over twenty-two minutes per game in each that Boyle's been out), and that earns him the green arrow. Demers has had a great sophomore campaign and is really maturing into a dependable blueliner.
Kent Huskins		Kent Huskins has been out with a phantom injury since the win against Colorado on the 19th. Oddly enough, he came back to play in that game... so we don't quite know the extent or the severity of what ails him. Regardless, he's on LTIR and he isn't being missed necessarily with Braun playing so well. When he comes back, he might be the odd man out.
Douglas Murray		Douglas Murray has been a shot-blocking machine lately to go along with his always physical play. Solid, dependable. His minutes have decreased, but on a shift by shift basis, he's still giving San Jose its money's worth.
Marc-Edouard Vlasic		Another minutes eater, still strong with the stick. You don't notice him often, but that's a good thing. Consistently consistent, and although we still would like to see some more offense from him at times, there's no one better in San Jose when it comes to the defensive zone.
Niclas Wallin		He's been good when his team is shorthanded, and he's the second-most physical defenseman on the roster behind Murray. He still gets beat defensively at times and is a poor defender in transition, but as a sixth defenseman, Wallin is able to hold his own.
Ian White		We would love to give White the up arrow, as he's shown the offensive skill we've looked for on the blue line all season. Still, the results aren't quite there yet... just two assists in his seven games with the team. It was a rocky start defensively for White, but that's to be expected with a new team and he's managed to pick up the pace. You have to love his ability to move the puck at the blueline-- White takes about one step, opens up a shooting lane and gets rubber on net.

Forwards__________
Ryane Clowe		Ryane Clowe has been a strong presence for the Sharks all season. He's a killer in the shootout, and he could conceivably break his career high in goals and points this year. Still, his physicality comes at a price-- when he fights, he's usually putting the Sharks at a disadvantage by leaving.
Logan Couture		Couture carried this team offensively early in the season, but he's cooled off from a goal scoring standpoint as of late; he has just one in his last twelve games. Still, he has eight assists in that time frame and has played a huge role in the resurgence of Devin Setoguchi. Speaking of which, Thornton-Couture-Setoguchi has consistently been the Sharks best line since being put together. It gives the Sharks a multitude of options throughout their lineup if they can keep up the pace.
Andrew Desjardins	N/A	Desjardins has been sent down to Worcester, and barring injury to a lower line forward, will probably not appear in another game for the Sharks this season.
Ben Eager		Ben Eager plays with a reckless abandon that shows little concern for his opponents, and at times, his teammates; he destroyed Patrick Marleau against Dallas when he lit up Trevor Daley. Still, his game is a breath of fresh air for a team that wasn't getting the physicality it wanted from Jamal Mayers. Eager likes to go to the net as well, which has always been a concern from fans and pundits alike when it comes to San Jose.
Benn Ferriero	N/A	Ferriero is playing well in Worcester, with twenty-five points in twenty-seven games this season. He's definitely an asset to the NHL club going forward. but there's no room for him on the roster right now. He's projected as a top six forward based on skill, but his size means he's not going to be playing on your lower lines. The AHL is the best place for him right now. Next season is when he gets another chance to stick.
Dany Heatley		Something has obviously slowed Heatley, be it an injury or the lingering effects of the surgery he had in the offseason. Lately he's been better (two goals against Detroit), but he's not the elite player he should be. Hopefully the recent improvement will be built upon headed into the playoffs.
Patrick Marleau		Marleau had slumped a bit earlier in the season, but since 2011 rolled around he's been more of what we expect him to be. He's had fourteen points in the sixteen games since February 1st and has flashed that speed which makes him such a dangerous player. We couldn't be more pleased with Marleau right now, and with all due respect to Randy and Drew, feel as if he is the number one Shark of all-time.
Brandon Mashinter	N/A	Mashinter has been up and down all year, and he's back in Worcester now.
Jamal Mayers		We're not as low on Mayers as everyone else; he's valuable on the penalty kill and can flash a bit of speed here and there. Jamaaaaaal (raucous cheering) MAYERS!!!!
John McCarthy		John McCarthy is the kind of organizational player that every team has, and his role on the NHL team is pretty much limited to not making mistakes in limited minutes. McCarthy is effectively replacing Nichol while he is out, but is a lock to be sent down when Nichol returns.
Jamie McGinn	N/A	After a promising 2009-2010 campaign, Jamie McGinn regressed into the third/fourth line checking role we hoped he wouldn't. The skill is still there, he just needs to be playing minutes where he'll be looked at to provide scoring, and not physicality. He's still young, and he's still the Sharks' best offensive prospect. Playing big minutes in Worcester is better for his development than playing four minutes in San Jose. He's tallied twelve points in fourteen AHL games. On a related note, his favorite drink is orange julius.
Torrey Mitchell		He's found a home next to Pavelski and Wellwood on the third line. We've loved his continued improvement on defense, a talent that too often goes unnoticed by observers. That, coupled with his nice tick tack pass to Wellwood against Dallas, earns him the green arrow.
Scott Nichol		Nichol has been injured for a while, and we do miss his play on the fourth line and on the penalty kill. He's an instant upgrade over McCarthy.
Joe Pavelski		Pavelski is one of the main reasons for the Sharks resurgence, he's been playing well all year and is finally getting the points to show for it. He has fifteen points since the beginning of February and has made the third line a scoring threat. We're itching for April. Bet your butt Joe Money is too.
Joe Thornton		Joe Thornton is Jumbo Joe again, and he's teamed with Couture and Setoguchi to make the Sharks best top line of the 2010-2011 campaign. They're controlling the offensive zone for long stretches and have broken up HTML and Pavelski to make three solid scoring lines. And although we've mentioned it countless times before, you gotta love Thornton's newfound attention to the defensive zone.
Devin Setoguchi		Anyone else happy that Devin Setoguchi wasn't traded? He's on fire lately, and the increased scoring has lead to the confidence (cockiness?) that Setoguchi needs to be effective. He's been creative offensively and provides more "wow" moments than anyone else on the team. Like Marleau however, Setoguchi can hit a lull-- he's shown no signs of slowing lately, and we hope that carries on for the rest of the 2010-2011 campaign.
Kyle Wellwood		Of all the additions made by the Sharks lately, Wellwood has made the most difference. He's developed chemistry with his linemates quickly and has chipped in four points (three goals) in his short time with the team.

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Comments

…expect Nitty to Finnish more periods on the bench than on the ice.

I see what you did there.

And I agree with “FTF Staff”: Marleau will always be the number one Shark for most of us. No denying what Joe has done for this team, but I still see it as Patty’s club (however delusional that may seem).

by Chicago Shark on Mar 7, 2011 5:13 AM PST reply actions

cue facepalm....

by checkthesharkadoppler on Mar 7, 2011 7:26 AM PST up reply actions

Can't win them all

So Dallas is a team we do not want to play in the playoffs this year. They know how to play us, just like we know how to handle Detroit. I want to throw my remote through my flat screen everytime I see Steve Ott on the ice. People like to complain about Perry for what he did to Nabby a few years back, but I’d pay good money to see Mayers or Eager go off on Ott. He’s a real Douche!

On another not, Jerome Iginla just got his 30th goal. That makes 10 straight years with 30 or more. Not bad Jerome.

by douchebags on Mar 7, 2011 7:44 AM PST reply actions

Another vote for Patty

Randy and Drew made a good point about who has had a bigger effect on the team, but you have to give #1 to Marleau – he is the franchise.

by psantangeli on Mar 7, 2011 7:54 AM PST reply actions

Thanks!

I enjoy reading the player ranking features. They help me understand hockey more.
Keep up the great work!
GO SHARKS!!!

"Sometimes the only sense you can make out of life is a sense of humor!"
Lets Go Sharks!!! I still believe!!!!!!! 2011!!!!!!

by Catstoy on Mar 7, 2011 8:17 AM PST reply actions

I like these features a lot. As a writer I understand that writing operates in the Venn diagram of fast/cheap/high quality products, and a high quality and detailed rankings post like this is better as a monthly thing. Shark Week was a bit difficult to judge anyway, since things change so fast in this team’s play and in hockey.

Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3

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by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Mar 7, 2011 9:27 AM PST reply actions

Also YEAH I AM HAPPY SETO WAS NOT TRADED

WHY DID YOU EVEN ASK

Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3

STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!

by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Mar 7, 2011 9:27 AM PST up reply actions

I agree with you guys about Mayers. With the roll he is being asked to play, I think he does a great job.

Churning and burning, they yearn for the cup.

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by sharks in oc on Mar 7, 2011 9:45 AM PST reply actions

Fan of Wellwood

To me, he is a 2nd/3rd line version of Pavel Datsyuk. He is the best player on the team at stickhandling in a small space, plays responsible both ways, has a great innate sense as to when to pull up, when to dump, and when to drive to the net.

Also agree on White, the jury is still out on the guy. He shows flashes, but I don’t see much of a difference between him and Jason Demers or Justin Braun. I certainly wouldn’t want to give him a Vlasic type contract.

I will respectfully disagree as to Joe Pavelski’s play earlier this season, I thought he was getting away from being a hybrid pass/shoot guy and was gunning too much (maybe his goal scoring in the playoffs got to his head?) but he has certainly adjusted well to his 3rd line role. Is Pavs/Wellwood/Mitchell the best 3rd line in the league? Furthermore, I would posit that calling up Ferriero, moving mitchell to the 4th line, and sitting Mayers would make the team more dangerous. Pavs/Wellwood/Ferriero would be a lot of team’s second line.

by ruben398 on Mar 7, 2011 9:53 AM PST reply actions

Count me a fan as well

Of all three newcomers via trade, Wellwood’s been the most fun to watch for me personally. I know it’s only a month in his time here, but please please please don’t let him become trade fodder in the off-season.

by RedOscar on Mar 7, 2011 3:06 PM PST up reply actions

Was thinking that exact same thing about Pickles last week. Hardly ever think about the fact he’s on the ice these days, and it is most definitely a good thing for a d-man in my eyes.

Of course a bit more scoring pop at the other end of the ice would be nice, but keeping it simple and keeping the defensive side of his game solid is more important in my opinion.

And are we seeing the resurgence of Patty, Pavs and Seto at just the right time? Let’s hope so, and pray it continues deep into the post-season.

As ever, go Sharks!

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by BritShark on Mar 7, 2011 10:01 AM PST reply actions

If Boyle is not back in the next couple of weeks, I will have to go buy a stuffed animal to hold. Maybe Tommy Wingels had the right idea…

Jon Casey fan since '84
Tweet me or Read me, but you WILL HEAR my opinion, damnit.

by stufflife on Mar 7, 2011 10:03 AM PST reply actions

Obviously DW read this and decided to screw with you.

Desjardins and McCarthy just switched places in Worcester.

Via Twitter:

San Jose Sharks
Center Andrew Desjardins has been recalled from Worcester and left wing John McCarthy has been reassigned.

Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!

by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 10:07 AM PST reply actions

Saw that.

Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions

I've gotta say I'm thrilled that Braun has essentially lived up to my expectations since he's been back.

My overall hope was that he’d come back with his full defensive game (though I tried to temper it back down to getting what we got before after listening to some wise words from TCY). While I’m not sure we’ve seen all he’s got defensively, he’s been able to hold his own aside from a couple ill-advised clearing attempts that went over the glass because he was rushed. He hasn’t actually gotten any points yet, but if his shot keeps finding a way through to the goalie, one will get by or someone will clean it up.

Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!

by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 10:15 AM PST up reply actions

I thought Randy and Drew let the fans vote the order of Nabby, Thornton and Marleau, or am I mistaken?

by Bearodactyls on Mar 7, 2011 10:15 AM PST reply actions

They asked for fans’ opinions, but they’d already made their list. Personally, I thought they made several mistakes. I wouldn’t have left DW off, especially after they gave #1 to Thornton, but my top three would have been Marleau, Nabokov, Thornton. Whatever.

Jon Casey fan since '84
Tweet me or Read me, but you WILL HEAR my opinion, damnit.

by stufflife on Mar 7, 2011 10:45 AM PST up reply actions

Yeah, they asked for a vote just to see what everyone said. And it was like 75% Marleau. It wasn’t to decide it…just for a comparison’s sake.

"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
The Jody Shelley of FearTheFin's Mod Squad.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 7, 2011 10:47 AM PST up reply actions

Ah okay. I missed the game that revealed the order for Thornton/Marleau.

by Bearodactyls on Mar 7, 2011 10:49 AM PST up reply actions

On a related note, his favorite drink is orange julius.

Am I the only one who couldn’t stop laughing at this?
-—-
On a side note, Braun and Demers make me feel great about the prospect situation. And Vlasic of course, but I feel like he’s been playing for years. Our D-core (with additions like White, and guys we will ultimately pick up) could be fantastic.. considering how great these young guys are.

Oh and, TORREY MITCHELL!!!!

"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell Fan Club

by Bockerz on Mar 7, 2011 10:41 AM PST reply actions

I really like Orange Julius. I remember when I learned the recipe in Home Ec back in middle school, I felt like I was on top of the world! Seriously. When my parents had friends over, they’d ask me to make a batch.

/I’m kind of a big deal.

Jon Casey fan since '84
Tweet me or Read me, but you WILL HEAR my opinion, damnit.

by stufflife on Mar 7, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions

Did anyone ever watch the Nick show Pete and Pete and the episode with the Orange Lazarus?

Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
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by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 4:36 PM PST up reply actions

I only vaguely remember that episode.

I think it’s because over the last two years it was on, the only episode I ever caught was the Martin Van Buren marshmallow episode. So everything but that and a montage of Artie are only a blur to me.

Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!

by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 4:47 PM PST up reply actions

I remember the show

Don’t remember the episode

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 4:54 PM PST up reply actions

Something like: 5lbs of sugar to every gallon of water, with some malt and orange juice thrown in, was what a friend who worked there told me. Way back when.

If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
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by Soloact on Mar 7, 2011 9:19 PM PST up reply actions

I have a hard time laughing at Orange Julius

It’s very serious business

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 11:14 AM PST up reply actions

Apparently

Orange Julius has a hard time laughing too…

"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell Fan Club

by Bockerz on Mar 7, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions

Vlasic is the longest-tenured Sharks defenseman. But he’s also the second-youngest, only older than Demers (Braun is a month older than Vlasic, believe it or not).

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by mymclife on Mar 7, 2011 11:16 AM PST up reply actions

So nuts how young Vlasic broke into the league

Doug Wilson loves pointing out the fact that he played 35 minutes a night in the Q on the way to the Memorial Cup.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 11:21 AM PST up reply actions

Wha? That can’t be right. Murray’s been here forever.

by Khaaz on Mar 7, 2011 2:56 PM PST up reply actions

Murray played partial seasons in 05-06 and 06-07 and his first full season was 07-08. Vlasic played a full season in 06-07. So it depends on if you’re counting by the first time he skated in the NHL here or when he became a full-time NHLer.

Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!

by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 4:52 PM PST up reply actions

As for our D corp

It is very promising. Vlasic, Demers and Braun are good cornerstones. I hope we get a coach soon who realizes Dan Boyle should not be playing 87 minutes a night, because then maybe he won’t be burned anytime soon. Murray hopefully has a few more seasons before he really hits his ceiling. If we resign Ian White, that’s good, but somewhere, between potentially losing Boyle and Murray to diminishing skills in a few seasons, I’d still like to find our shutdown-crease-clearing Pronger/Blake type guy. Because, you know, they grow on trees. Or grow like trees. I forget which…

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 11:19 AM PST up reply actions

Boyle hasn’t really played since Ian White joined the team. When Boyle comes back i fully expect his minutes to be wayyy lower than they were for the first half of the season.

by Khaaz on Mar 7, 2011 2:59 PM PST up reply actions

And there's more...

Taylor Doherty
Konrad Abeltshauser
Nick Petrecki
Dominik Bielke
William Wrenn

I’m expecting Petrecki to make the NHL before these others, but I’ve heard great things about Doherty and the others. Doherty in particular is a prospect I’m very excited about. I’ve read he can skate very well for a big man (6’7" 235lbs) and has Chris Pronger-like stickwork. Petrecki has to figure it out though. With Wallin likely on his way out this offseason, the Sharks will need a physical presence outside of Murray. Boyle, Demers, Braun, White and Vlasic aren’t intimidating anyone.

by c.perez on Mar 7, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions

Best bit of the entire piece.

And I’m usually a sucker for Finnish jokes.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.

by SharksFanEst.1994 on Mar 7, 2011 7:13 PM PST up reply actions

Patty deserves a green arrow

But his defensive zone coverage still makes me cringe. I’ll continue my defense of Thornton as the #1 Shark of all time. Marleau has tenure, but Joe is the man who took this franchise from middle of the pack to NHL elite. And if the issue with Marleau is tenure, give me Nabokov’s decade over Patty’s 12 years any day of the week. Nabokov carried this team in ways Patty never has. Part of that is just the importance of goaltending, but personality wise, highlight wise, Nabby had far more memorable years in teal than Patty.

I’m mildly perturbed by the D: 2 +, 3 ups, 2 -s and one down. On paper, that’s decent, but the fact that the 3 ups are coming from sacrificed offense, I dunno. I suppose it’s good, considering half of the forwards are up or push. I just really hope that the lack of blueline contributions on O don’t hurt us in the playoffs, when the checking gets tighter, and you need more shots from the blueline and a more cohesive 5 man unit.

On the plus side, I think, by and large, the forwards are playing MUCH better D. Team D going forward is just as important, if not more, than team offense.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 10:51 AM PST reply actions

Marleau has tenure, but Joe is the man who took this franchise from middle of the pack to NHL elite.

I would disagree with this. Thornton obvioulsy made the team better, but the Sharks did make the WCF with Marleau prior to Thornton’s arrival.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 10:55 AM PST up reply actions

And Vinny Damphouse was a big time catalyst for that

Not to mention that that was probably one of Nabokov’s finest seasons. Not to downplay Patty’s importance to that team, but if the argument for putting Patty ahead of Thornton is that his tenure matters more than Joe’s impact, then serious consideration has to then be given to Nabokov, who has near the same tenure, and probably more impact.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 10:59 AM PST up reply actions

Nabokov’s tenure has to be taken with a grain of salt, though, as he was replaced by Toskala for stretches.

You could make an argument for any of the top three guys, I just go with Marleau here.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 11:02 AM PST up reply actions

I understand the argument for all three

But if we’re taking Nabby’s tenure with a grain of salt, I put the same grain with Patty’s. He broke into the league very young, and I’d be hard pressed to find a season where he was the consensus #1 forward on the team, or where the opposition’s game plan in the post-season was solely dedicated to shutting him down the way teams gameplan around Joe.

But, given his tenure, the good statistical seasons he’s had, the career franchise numbers, the memorable playoff series he’s had, I can see why so many fans think he’s number one. He was my favorite player for a long time because he represented so much continuity for the franchise, especially after Owen Nolan was traded. But with the way “newer” Sharks have put their mark on this franchise, particularly Joe and Dan Boyle, it’s gone a long way to supplanting Patty in my mind.

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 11:09 AM PST up reply actions

I see both sides of this debate, and think they’re both valid. Personally, I think tenure with the team…and more specifically productive tenure with the team…should count a lot in the “best Sharks of the last 20 years.” As big of a Jumbo fan as I am, I had him 3rd in my list…after Patty and Nabby. Both have meant so much to this team over a very big period of time. But Marleau has been a Top 5 Forward (and usually Top 3) in terms of season points for the Sharks in each of the last 12 seasons (and again this season, his 13th with the club). And that kind of productive longevity with a team cannot be overlooked.

He’s played second fiddle to Thornton since Jumbo arrived…and if this was a “best Sharks of the last 5 years,” its Thornton hands down. But over the entire franchise history, Thornton has been the best forward on the team for 6 years (30%), Marleau has been one of the best forwards on the team for 13 years (65%). Does Thornton’s dominant 6 years outweigh Marleau’s very solidly productive 13 years? In my eyes it does not. Not yet anyways.

But the argument that Thornton’s arrival and level of play has turned the Sharks into an NHL power I think is a good one. A great one, really. As is the fact that Thornton’s level of greatness has been much higher than anyone has achieved in Sharks history. I think 3-4 years from now, Thornton may be the best Shark of all time. Just don’t think he’s been here long enough yet to warrant that title. But that’s just me. All the top 3 are so close right now.

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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 7, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs

Very well said.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 1:53 PM PST up reply actions

+1

GO SHARKS!

They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn

What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.

by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 1:59 PM PST up reply actions

uh … yeah … exactly what I was going to say … :)

GO SHARKS!
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by Angy on Mar 7, 2011 2:01 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah - what ZI said xD

Go Sharks!

by Dmitriy on Mar 7, 2011 2:02 PM PST up reply actions

Very well put

Where would you put Owen Nolan in the equation, since he effectively occupied the top spot during Patty’s tenure prior to Joe?

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 2:40 PM PST up reply actions

I'd put Nolan as a strong #4...

Nolan was the best Shark for two years before Marleau arrived in San Jose. But after that, Nolan wasn’t as clear cut as the Sharks’ best player during the time both players were on the roster. In looking at total points, Nolan was better than Marleau in 3 seasons, tied with him in 1 season, and worse than him in 2 seasons. So, yes, he was a top 5 (and usually top 3) forward for us for 8 years. Also during that time, you had others (Friesen, Selanne, and Damphousse to be precise), who were also vying for the title of our top forward. So neither Nolan or Marleau were the clear cut #1 and/or #2 during that time.

In the 99-00 season, yes, Nolan was, without a doubt, much better than Marleau that year. But overall, the years he was better than Marleau, he wasn’t significantly better:

In 97-98, the difference was 41-32 points, and Friesen left them both in the dust
In 99-00, the difference was large, 84-40 (What a season for Nolan).
In 01-02, the difference was significant again, 66-44. But, the seasons before and after that season, Marleau was actually the more productive player. Granted, some of that was due to injury…but shouldn’t that be taken into account as well?

The reason for putting him behind Thornton is because Thornton’s now almost 6 years with the team are way, way better than anything Nolan ever put up; and, the difference in time spent with the team between the two (6 years vs. 8 years) is close enough that Thornton’s quality of seasons can satisfactorily outweigh Nolan’s tenure with the team.

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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 7, 2011 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs

Hard to argue

The thing I tend to remember is that, when Nolan left, he held all the franchise records. Since he left, Patty has claimed most, if not all the relevant records, but the first record he broke was games played. The scoring records came after that.

Some of that is because Patty came to the team as a rookie, and Nolan was an established veteran, but still.

I’d put Patty ahead of Buster on the list, but again, if we’re talking about GREATNESS, it’s still hard for me to give that label to Patty. He’s been very very very very very good, productive, a good soldier, adaptable and dependable.

But Ali wasn’t The Greatest because he was good, and Gretzky wasn’t The Great One because he played for a long time.

I know we think of this as Patty’s team, but by and large, throughout his tenure, it seems to largely have been someone else’s team. Hard for me to call him the greatest Shark if that’s the case. In a perverse way, it almost puts more of a burden on him to produce.

Darren McCarty has 4 Cup ring, but I don’t think he’d be one of the top 5 Red Wings of all time. Extreme example, yes, but I’m just pointing out that I don’t think productive tenure is the best metric of greatness.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 3:56 PM PST up reply actions

Well, if we’re measuring greatness, would you then put Cheechoo ahead of Marleau because he won the Rocket Richard for us and scored the most goals in a single season for the Sharks? Would you put Niemi in the top 20 because he’s had the greatest stretch of goaltending in franchise history over the last few months?

Tenure, and the ability to count on someone to be there, game in and game out, and be a very productive face of the franchise for so long HAS to count for something.

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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 7, 2011 4:40 PM PST up reply actions

Tenure certainly counts

I just think it can’t be the only factor.

It seems to me that the argument for putting Patty at #1 is that his tenure counts for more than Joe’s impact. Patty has obviously had an impact on this franchise, but I think it’s equally obvious that Joe’s impact is well above Patty’s. The question then becomes, does Patty’s tenure added to his impact exceed Joe’s impact, and comparative tenure.

In my mind, there’s just no way adding Patty’s tenure to his impact exceeds Joe’s impact. If it was, Patty would have had to stand out far more prior to the lockout.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 4:58 PM PST up reply actions

The big distinction I see

Is who is the greatest Shark not who was the best player to ever play for the Sharks.

I see tenure as a huge reason for choosing one player over another.

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 4:42 PM PST up reply actions

Greatest Player to Play for the Sharks vs. Greatest Shark

Certainly a very interesting point. Most people would probably agree that Joe Thornton is the greatest player to ever wear teal, though I think Igor Larionov certainly merits some consideration.

Then the question becomes, what defines the Sharks to us? Is it the scrappy underdogs of the Constantine or Sutter years? Is it the fast skating overachievers of the Wilson years?

It’s tough, because the franchise is all of those things. And Patty spans a lot of those eras.

But to me, the Greatest Shark of all time should be a man who defines the team, who impacts it, and is the engine that makes it go.

Patty has always been a valuable man in Teal. I’m glad he plays for us. But, comparing him and Joe, there’s just literally no question for me as to who the team is molded in the image of.

Joe’s calm demeanor and outgoing nature, for better or worse, define this team. Some see it as a virtue, some as a vice (chokers, not gritty, no heart).

The team is built around Joe in a way it’s never been built for Patty. I see these things, and I have a hard time saying Patty defines what it means to be a Shark better than Joe.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 5:08 PM PST up reply actions

ditto

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 4:39 PM PST up reply actions

Joe won the Art Ross and Hart

Joe vs Patty is pretty much a landslide if you consider hardware. I could be wrong, but I don’t think any other Shark forward has ever even been a finalist for a major award (other than Cheech), let alone the MVP.

by BillytheSid on Mar 7, 2011 12:25 PM PST up reply actions

Pretty sure Nabokov was a Vezina runner up, but I get your point.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions

Pretty sure I said “Shark forward” too. =]

by BillytheSid on Mar 7, 2011 12:29 PM PST up reply actions

Oh duh. My bad.

by Matthew_Taylor on Mar 7, 2011 12:30 PM PST up reply actions

Tony Granato, won the Masterton. Jed Ortmeyer was a finalist for the Masterton ;P

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by mymclife on Mar 7, 2011 12:35 PM PST up reply actions

It's the Masterton

Not the Major-ton ;P

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 12:36 PM PST up reply actions

I don't agree with this argument

by this logic, let’s say we sign some player to a one year contract and he wins the Hart, Art Ross, Rocket Richard, and Conn Smythe all in one year, and then he signs with someone else.

Does that automatically make him the #1 Shark of all time?

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 4:45 PM PST up reply actions

Zero made this argument with Cheechoo

Does Cheech exceed Patty simply because of one trophy? Certainly not.

But by the same token, does Patty having been here forever put him above Joe’s sheer impact on the team? I mean, literally, overnight, the Sharks became league news. Heck, does Patty’s tenure put him above Nabby? Nabby played a more important position and really, how far the Sharks went any given year during his decade in Teal was pretty much up to how far we could ride Nabby.

It’s very true, no single factor is going to make someone the greatest Shark of all time. It’s the sum of their achievements. And, when I do the math, I just don’t see Patty exceeding Joe, even at this moment. In 6 years, I’d argue Joe has had a bigger impact than Patty has in 12.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 5:02 PM PST up reply actions

The big deal for me is that Patty holds almost every scoring franchise record, due largely to his tenure yes, but that’s the big selling point for me.

And yes, I think Patty’s added tenure does more than make up for Jumbo’s larger impact.

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 5:05 PM PST up reply actions

I think Patty’s added tenure does more than make up for Jumbo’s larger impact

And there’s the defining evaluation for Sharks fans I think. If you answer yes, Patty is the no questions choice. If it’s no, then it’s Joe.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions

Pretty much

I agree it’s just a personal judgment call. I’m not really upset that Joe was called #1, I just would have done it differently.

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 7:53 PM PST up reply actions

guess who leads the western conference in total goals scored for the last 3 seasons?

patty marleau with 108

meeeeow -cats everywhere

by Jay Fin Anderson on Mar 7, 2011 8:23 PM PST up reply actions

I haven’t looked, but I’ll bet #2 is Kent Huskins

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by stufflife on Mar 7, 2011 8:32 PM PST up reply actions

Only because he cares so much.

by PNK on Mar 8, 2011 8:13 AM PST up reply actions

I hear Joe has pretty good scoring numbers too

;)

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 8:40 PM PST up reply actions

It’s a shame that Nabokov didn’t carry the team in the playoffs much!!!

by Tiberon07 on Mar 7, 2011 2:51 PM PST up reply actions

He carried the team plenty

Just no one else did any lifting at all. How are you supposed to consistently win if you can’t score more than 2 goals a game?

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 3:09 PM PST up reply actions

On a mildly related note

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 10:59 AM PST reply actions 2 recs

that is awesome!

by Angy on Mar 7, 2011 11:01 AM PST up reply actions

Also agree

As much as I love Jumbo and he’s my favorite Shark, Patty is the number 1 Shark in it’s 20 year history. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. He has always worn teal and he probably always will. Didn’t the fans decide on 3-1 on the top 20? If so, were these fans new from the last 5 years?

Nabby was also a Calder finalist and won the big trophy in 2001 I believe so he has won hardware as well.

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by winthecupsj on Mar 7, 2011 1:18 PM PST reply actions

And Nabby got robbed of the Vezina 2007-2008. Still pisses me off…

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by Bockerz on Mar 7, 2011 2:06 PM PST up reply actions

Here's how I look at the rankings:

Greatest player to play on the Sharks: Joe Thornton
Greatest Sharks player: Patrick Marleau

I think that’s a key difference here. Frankly, considering just how long Joe’s been on this team, I find it hard to put him at one. He’s had a ridiculously large impact on the team, but in my opinion he’s the 3rd greatest Shark behind Patty and Nabby. I’d even venture to put Nabby as 1st, but ultimately that spot seems perfect for the man we call Captain.

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by Bockerz on Mar 7, 2011 2:15 PM PST reply actions

Yes

that’s prob the way I see it to.

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 4:46 PM PST up reply actions

signed
This is what I was thinking all along.

by Joakim Nihlén on Mar 8, 2011 6:00 AM PST up reply actions

Just out of curiosity

What does the writing staff think of having a discussion thread for the top 20 or the top 5 on the next non-gameday? Wednesday perhaps?

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 2:41 PM PST reply actions

I second this request. I’m really curious to see who everyone here would pick.

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by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions

It would be hard for me to pick a top 20 or top 5 given my limited years as a Sharks fan … over say most of you guys who have been fans for many more years than me.

by Angy on Mar 7, 2011 5:09 PM PST up reply actions

Top 20 would be tough

But I think top 5 are going to be dominated by recent players.

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by ElvisVF101 on Mar 7, 2011 5:10 PM PST up reply actions

Tend to agree. I think Nolan is the most likely “old Shark” to crack the top five frequently.

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by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 5:12 PM PST up reply actions

Where’s the list of the CSN top 20 Sharks?

I rarely watch during intermission and I only caught a few of them, like the Thornton/Marleau #1/#2 one, but I didn’t catch most of the other ones.

by PNK on Mar 7, 2011 7:56 PM PST up reply actions

Here’s the link. The videos of each announcement are also linked there.

The whole list with Honorable Mentions consisted of:

No. 1 — Joe Thornton
No. 2 — Patrick Marleau
No. 3 — Evgeni Nabokov
No. 4 — Owen Nolan
No. 5 — Arturs Irbe
No. 6 – No. 10 — The ‘ov’ Line
No. 11 — Vincent Damphousse
No. 12 — Kelly Kisio
No. 13 — Jamie Baker
No. 14 — Jonathan Cheechoo
No. 15 — Jeff Friesen
No. 16 — Dan Boyle
No. 17 — Mike Rathje
No. 18 — Mike Ricci
No. 19 — Teemu Selanne
No. 20 — Marco Sturm
Honorable Mentions — Joe Pavelski, Doug Wilson, Tony Granato, Scott Thornton, Jeff Odgers, Marcus Ragnarsson

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by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 8:19 PM PST up reply actions

The Ov Line were numbered as the following (since I missed that they were broken out on the list):

No. 6 — Igor Larionov
No. 7 — Sergei Makarov
No. 8 — Johan Garpenlov
No. 9 — Jeff Norton
No. 10 — Sandis Ozolinsh

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by Auth0r on Mar 7, 2011 8:24 PM PST up reply actions

That sounds about right, for the most part. I might switch a few up, but most of the people that I think of are up there.

The only ones that come to mind right now, that I think are at least deserving of honorable mentions are Pat Falloon and Rob Gaudreau if only for certain historical milestones.

by PNK on Mar 8, 2011 8:20 AM PST up reply actions

There’s a part of me that feels Teemu could be bumped for DW. Selanne’s double helping of Duck in his career, and the fact that he probably self-identifies more there than here, feels like it should be taken into account.

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by Auth0r on Mar 8, 2011 10:22 AM PST up reply actions

Wilson has been important to this franchise, for sure. But most of his value does not lie as a player. He was here when the franchise started and played only 2 mostly unproductive seasons with us (28 and 20 points respectively…well down from career averages) and then retired. Yes, he was our first captain, and our first legitimate star (albeit in the twilight of his career)…but on the ice, he really didn’t do much for the Sharks as a player. So him not making the list, I can agree with. Especially with Selanne being a team leading scorer during his stint here.

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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 8, 2011 10:32 AM PST up reply actions

Fair enough. To a degree, the thought isn’t even so much about WIlson as it is about Selanne.

I guess I think of Teemu a bit in the way I think of Belfour and Campbell (though not nearly to the degree of those two). Productive while he was here, but more than ready to get the heck out of dodge once he got the chance. He was less of a douche about it, but it still happened.

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by Auth0r on Mar 8, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions

totally agree with the list, especially wellwood.

i like all 3 acquisitions, and i think white’s value will be recognized when boyler returns, and the unit gains cohesiveness.

wellwood though, has been just sweet. he is like picking up a european player who is actually a canadian. and since dougW hates euros, thats important.

meeeeow -cats everywhere

by Jay Fin Anderson on Mar 7, 2011 8:26 PM PST reply actions

Off Topic, but

Ott got kicked out of the Dal-LA game for spearing.

by Soloact on Mar 7, 2011 8:43 PM PST reply actions

That’s because Ott is a huge dick…

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by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 7, 2011 9:10 PM PST up reply actions

Exactly why I posted that.

by Soloact on Mar 7, 2011 9:18 PM PST up reply actions

Physicality

is the most misused term in the NHL.
“Definition of PHYSICALITY:
intensely physical orientation: predominance of the physical usually at the expense of the mental, spiritual, or social
a physical aspect or quality "