Turns out, Joe Thornton is not a lousy babysitter
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 3:00 AM PDT
in Coaching From The Couch
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Over the course of the last two seasons, the Sharks have ran a series of commercials which use the same tagline. "X player is a lousy X." We've found out that Joe Pavelski is a lousy Detective, Marc-Edouard Vlasic is a lousy Gardener, among many other vital revelations by the Sharks PR Department.
The tagline in the latest Sharks commercial goes as follows: "Joe Thornton is a lousy babysitter."
We tend to disagree. That may be true when it comes to bratty children, but line mates are an entirely different story.
Throughout Joe Thornton's now fourteen-year NHL career, he's often been asked to "babysit" a player on his line, with the hope that Thornton's skill set would make that player more dangerous. It's worked multiple times before, but the Sharks may now have to depend on lightning striking once again in the 2011-2012 season.
When Brent Burns was acquired by San Jose, the team was instantly improved. However, in order to get Burns in teal, Sharks General Manager Doug Wilson had to give up some great assets, including young sniper Devin Setoguchi. The offensively gifted player had found a home alongside Joe Thornton since blossoming in the 2008-2009 season; Setoguchi scored thirty-goals that year as a member of Thornton's line and has scored more than twenty goals in each season since.
While Setoguchi moved up and down the lineup during the year as a result of injuries, and at times a less than ideal relationship with Sharks Head Coach Todd McLellan, he always seemed most comfortable when taking his place alongside Thornton and Marleau on the Sharks top line. Heading into next season, it seemed almost certain that the Sharks would turn back to that combination to start the year.
That's no longer an option. With Setoguchi on his way to Minnesota, there's a pretty obvious hole on the Sharks top line. It's not as apparent as the hole on defense that was filled by Brent Burns as a result of the trade; the Sharks do have internal candidates to move up in the lineup to fill this offensive need. They couldn't fill the need for a top defenseman internally, hence the Burns acquisition.
The most obvious candidate to bring up is Dany Heatley, who scored 39 goals playing most of his time with Joe Thornton two years ago. Without Thornton (and Marleau), Heatley's production took a 41% tumble; Heatley scored just 26 goals this past season playing mostly second line minutes. It's hard to believe that Heatley's production dropped simply because of his distance from Thornton; Heatley has been a perennial forty goal scorer in his league throughout his career with different line mates on different teams. Instead, the reason for Heatley's downfall appears to be the fact that he was injured for the majority of the 2010-2011 campaign. After sustaining a serious groin injury at the beginning of the 2010 Stanley Cup playoffs, Heatley struggled to recover during the offseason and appeared hampered physically last season. Then to add insul... well, injury to injury, Heatley suffered a broken hand with about ten games remaining to play in the regular season.
The hope is that Heatley not only recovers from injury, but also from a career-low shooting percentage to become the scoring threat he has been throughout his career. Still, it's likely in the Sharks best interest to keep Thornton and Heatley separated; the Sharks relied on a depth of scoring to get them to their second straight Western Conference Finals last year.
If Heatley remains on the second line, moving up one of the other options within the Sharks top-six forward group could be a possibility. However, there are problems inherent with any of these moves.
Moving up either Ryane Clowe or Logan Couture separates them from each other, an unwise move considering the chemistry they built together over the course of the last year. Also, Couture had a 30 goal season without the help of Thornton, making him a threat on the second line which opposing teams have to game plan for.
Joe Pavelski is a possibility, but he's best used at the center position instead of at the wing. Pavelski on the third line also creates a matchup issue for opposing coaching staffs, especially if he can continue to build on the success he found playing with Kyle Wellwood (who is a UFA) and Torrey Mitchell.
While it's most likely that the coaches will find Thornton his new line mate from the group of players listed above, there's a chance that first line spot could be given to someone else entirely. These players have each shown that they can succeed on their own; it might be in the team's best interest to promote someone who hasn't necessarily excelled without the benefit of Joe Thornton at their side. It wouldn't be the first time the Sharks tried something like that.
Two years ago, when Devin Setoguchi suffered a lower body injury that kept him out of the lineup, diminutive forward Ryan Vesce got the nod to replace him. The 5'8", 170lb Vesce, who had a mostly pedestrian AHL career up to that point, scored four points in four games (including three goals) alongside Joe Thornton. Vesce would be knocked off the top line after those games, and went on to notch just one assist the remainder of the season.
This instance, along with Thornton's affect on other players throughout his career, suggests that the top-line role can be filled by a player without a significant NHL pedigree. As such, players like Torrey Mitchell, Jamie McGinn or Benn Ferriero could be looking at increased minutes going forward.
Torrey Mitchell has had an up and down NHL career plagued with injuries and inconsistency. Still, his speed and defensive acumen could come in handy on the top line. Thornton and Marleau like to play the cycle game, and Mitchell's skating ability and above average hands would fit into that game plan. Also, Mitchell's NHL experience gives him a leg up on his competition for the spot, while his defensive ability makes Mitchell a safety net for the offensively minded scoring group. However, his lack of size and propensity for being knocked off the puck are things that make him less than ideal for the role. In addition, increased minutes for Mitchell may be a problem as he'll likely be asked to make up some of the shorthanded minutes that Scott Nichol took with him.
Benn Ferriero is a similar player to Torrey Mitchell, especially when considering size and stature (Ferriero - 5'11", 195lb, Mitchell 5'11", 190lb). However, Ferriero brings more to the table from an offensive standpoint; he displayed his scoring touch on a line with Ryane Clowe and Logan Couture this past season, potting five goals in 33 games. However, Ferriero can be quite streaky and also tends to be bodied around. Still, his offensive abilities can't be overlooked; in the AHL, Ferriero scored 50 points in 58 games his rookie year and 33 points in 43 games last year.
Perhaps the most interesting possibility for the spot is Jamie McGinn. McGinn, who first appeared in the San Jose lineup three seasons ago, has seen his prospect star grow somewhat tarnished. In 143 NHL games over three seasons, McGinn has registered just 15 goals and a total of 25 points, less than what has been expected of one of the most promising young talents in the pipeline.
Still, McGinn has the size (6'1", 205lb) to play with Thornton and Marleau. And, at just 22 years old, still has time to regain some of the promise that he lost through a less than impressive 2010-2011 season. One goal and five assists won't cut it for a player with McGinn's tools, and even though he played with some less than offensively gifted line mates (mostly Scott Nichol and Jamal Mayers), McGinn needs to show more of the player who scored ten goals for San Jose his sophomore year, lest he be sent down to Worcester again.
In my opinion, McGinn can do that, and more. Of the three players mentioned, his size, skill and physicality make him the best in-house candidate outside of the current top-six to solve the puzzle created by Setoguchi's absence. McGinn also gained a good number of supporters in the dressing room with his high compete level against Vancouver, something that could go a long way in building his confidence.
Playing alongside Thornton, it's my assumption that McGinn could score anywhere from 15-25 goals. The high-end of that projection is definitely on the optimistic side, but not out of the realm of possibility. In doing that, McGinn could help not only his own development but also the strength of the team in general. Heatley on the second line and Pavelski on the third line makes San Jose a much deeper and more dangerous team.
It's likely that McGinn doesn't stick with Thornton all season; if his line struggles at all the Sharks coaching staff won't hesitate to mix up the line combinations. However, it's worth a shot.
Perhaps San Jose goes out and signs an offensive forward with some of the money they have available and this discussion becomes moot. According to The Fourth Period, San Jose could be a suitor for Jussi Jokinen, who would obviously fit into the Sharks top six nicely. Still, as Jason Plank pointed out yesterday, the Sharks are better off using their cap space to sign a defensive forward who can improve the Sharks extremely mediocre shorthanded unit from last year that has to deal with losing a key piece (Nichol). It's unlikely they can do both.
It's looking more and more like Joe Thornton will be a babysitter once again. So break out the cheesy puffs, the Olympic gold medal, and the sweet, sweet passes. Someone will be the beneficiary.
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Devin Setoguchi still sucks at lawyoring...
=)
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
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Burns sucks at not having pets xD
Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Jun 28, 2011 7:43 AM PDT reply actions
This will be my new pet Shark
however…I’m pondering buying a Minnesota Devin Setoguchi jersey, and cheering for his goals against us, just to spite Doug Wilson :D
Blame the GM
sorry for this little spam but I’m still emotional about the trade
Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Jun 28, 2011 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions
I usually cheer for ex-sharks that score on us and I will for Devin, but I still like the trade.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I boo Campbell
But I actually think he’s a good player and a good guy, so the boos are purely for tradition, and to troll Blackhawk fans.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
hahaha
Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Jun 28, 2011 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
I boo Teemu Selanne...
I dont care if you were a Shark for a few years… You’re still a friggin Duck…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 29, 2011 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Jokinen
J. Jokinen would be a nice addition but w/ 30 goals in 09/10 and 19g/52pts in 10/11 I’d imagine he’s looking at a very big raise from thta $1.7mm salary. I also can’t figure out why the Canes would let him go…
JT and Marleau need a speedy linemate who’s willing to do the dirty work, go into the corners, hit people and get the puck. Seto was very good at being the first forward on the puck and out of the group you mentioned McGinn is probably the best option.
Best point of this article is that the Sharks absolutely have to find a way to keep Thornton, Pavs and Couture on 3 different lines.
Canes will let him go
Because he’s looking for that big raise and possibly doesn’t want to play there anymore, though I doubt that second one a bit.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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I like him... a lot
I would love to have Jokinen in our Top 6. If we could possibly sign him for anything less than 3 mil, we have found a cheaper and better option than Seto. Jokinen can be streaky as well (scored 6 goals in 6 games in a stretch in January, followed by scoring 2 goals in 16 games) but he is a better two-way player than Seto. Adding someone who will score more points AND also keep the puck out of the net is a great addition. Not sure if we could sign him, but keep in mind that:
1) He wasn’t on the Hurricanes Stanley Cup team, so if he has that burning passion to win, San Jose is the place for him compared to Carolina.
2) Playing in our Top 6, he could have a career year. If we can sign him to maybe a 1 year deal (like Malholtra) for him to showcase his skills with the idea that we want to win NOW, he can set himself up for a long term and bigger contract next year.
Come on Nemo! Give him a call and get another Finn on the team!
More like give him 1 year for those reasons up front, but in reality for the contract to be able to be let go next year to resign Couture/Burns since wouldnt be able to afford a triple payoff upgrade without trading Heatley.
I’m confused. Players that have won don’t care if they win again? I’m not sure I agree with this line of reasoning.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Jun 28, 2011 10:21 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Shootout lineup: Jokinen, Clowe, Pavelski
UNSTOPPABLE!
"Bobby Orr was available, but we couldn’t fit him in under the cap." - Todd McLellan
"BEAT DAT BEAT!!!"
If only we made the trade for Regehr and Kotalik.
We’d never lose a shootout and all it would cost us is a $3 mil cap hit for a player who can’t do anything other than that.
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…because look how that worked out for LA last season.
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They lost 3 times in our series, because it went to OT, and there's no Shootouts...
Man I love playoff hockey.
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 29, 2011 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh...
Dupuis and Laich both re-signed with their clubs (Laich at 4.5 per for 5 years, Dupuis at 1.5 for 2 years)
This is why I’m aiming small… Come on Vernon Fiddler!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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oh sorry
Laich is 6 years, not 5… I forgot this is the Cap’s we’re talking about. This is a “short term” deal for them.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Shows the difference between the GM's in Washington and Pittsburgh
1.5 for Dupuis seems like a steal to me, where as Laich seems like market value. Maybe I’m overrating Dupuis.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Jun 28, 2011 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, Dupuis is kind of a steal for what he brings but he’s been quoted time and time and time again about how much he and his family love Pittsburgh and that he’ll do whatever he needs to do to stay there.
Market Value on Laich?
I’ve lived in DC for 2 years now and let me tell you, he is not THAT good. He’s definitely got some upsides, but I peg him at a 3.5 tops (at least that is what I would consider giving him if I was a GM). But that is why they have their jobs, and I am just trolling on FTF…
Cap went up this year
To me that means think of what a player is worth, then tack on another 25% and you have market value. GM’s when given extra space race to do the stupidest shit possible with it.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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yeah, the Caps went up (in flames) this year
You see what i did there? Not funny…
Even considering the cap raise, I still don’t think Laich deserves all that much. I mean he seems like a great guy (Ive watched many games in the last two years both at VC and at home) and I am honestly relieved that there is no way he will be coming to the Sharks, considering how high his open market value seemed to be.
Just makes me fearful
of what that says the market will be for the next tier down.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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We need to extend him ASAP
Save some money for Couture’s impending FA.
by Briceratops on Jun 28, 2011 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions
I'll show you an extension.
If you know what I’m talkin bout.
by Briceratops on Jun 28, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
What I’m trying to say is that if Wilson extends Burns I’ll post the link to let you know.
by Briceratops on Jun 28, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m with you there, but I really like Brooks Laich, because he scored huge goals in the few caps games I watched last year (maybe the year before). I must of seen half of his goals for the season in the 5-6 Caps games I watched.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Awesome deal for pens, I thought it would take 1.7 to sign him, and now this gives them enough cap space to potentially sign tyler kennedy and jagr.
"When it rains, it pours." -- Morton's Salt
by Will Bulldozer on Jun 28, 2011 10:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
Pascal only cost 1.7 mill??? God damnit, i would’ve been glad to pay him up to 2.5 mill…siiiigh.
Hopefully Ward, Tyler Kennedy, and Belanger make it to July 1st. =\
Bwahahahaha
I see what you did there.
GO SHARKS!
by jMoneyBrah on Jun 28, 2011 6:03 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I should comment on the article.
I want the HTML back together. Those 3 were unstoppable as a group and at any given time they can have Boyle or Burns behind them? That should be the goal.
I think Ferriero or can fit in nicely on that second line with Couture and Clowe. If not go after a 2nd liner UFA to fill the spot, there are a few available. The big concern for me in that department is that there just isn’t any depth in this years UFA market and a bunch of new cap space. Players are going to get paid like they are a line better than they really are.
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I just don’t think it’s in the best interest of the team to have the HTML back together, especially if Heatley rebounds. Spread out the weapons.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Heatley rebound before we go with this experiment. Put them together to start the year and if anything it’s Marleau that ends up on line 2. Heater needs Jumbo instead of a shoot first center. (which I’m sure you’ve said and I just forgot)
If we do the babysitter route I’d still like to see Ferriero get a shot at top 6. I like McGinn with Desi on the 4th a lot. He seems capable of filling that role better than anybody else we have and I still want Eager back to finish of that group. I’m sure I’m in the minority on psychopathic 4th liners (he just reminds me so much of Marchment, and I love having a villain).
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Rather see McGinn get a chance to recapture some of the talent and promise he had just a year ago. I think he’s much better than a fourth liner, but you’d never know if you just pidgeon-holed him into that role.
I agree that Heatley is best off having a shoot first center, but Marleau and Thornton have such good chemistry. Marleau’s goal scoring has alot to do with being paired with Thornton.
Heater has the skill to succeed alone. I’d like to see him carry a line with Couture instead of putting all the eggs in one basket.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Marleau does most of his creation on breaks and less so with Jumbo feeding him. Maybe I just have selection bias as those are the goals I always remember from Patty. I think he gives speed to that 2nd line, and either McGinn or Ferriero would give it to the first. Heater doesn’t have the ability to create separation for himself and is more of the “get in the slot and let jumbo feed him” mantra that Seto use to fill on that line.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Marleau on the break
= Marleau skating. That’s what’s memorable about those goals. Frankly, putting him on Cloweture’s line so that he has to be part of their cycle might encourage more of that. Then Benn Ferriero can get some looks with Joe.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Marleau has 2 types of goals. The break goals where he brings the puck in himself using his speed, and the vulture goals where he isn’t using his speed for fear of injury and is just coasting by the net and Thornton threads a crazy pass to him (or rebound off someone’s shot and it goes right to him). Both types of goals outside of genuine breakaways don’t usually happen without primary defenders covering Thornton.
As good as Couture is, he’s still growing as a player and doesn’t really have the puck protection of Thornton or Clowe that is really needed to setup Patty, and Patty isn’t near the circle self positioning like Heatley or Seto are so Couture’s drive the net passes won’t really connect with him as well.
Heatley can work in both lines IF he crashes the net. Last season he didn’t do that and it led to the 26 goal performance. He was either trying to change his style back to pure sniper, or he was holding back because he was recovering from his groin injury (and maybe surgery?) and didn’t want to risk re-injuring it because of the price you pay being in front of the net.
McGinn needs to get off the 4th line, it is really unfortunate that his guttering play (combined with the rising play of Ferriero, Couture, Mitchell, and Wellwood) pulled him off the 3rd and even eventually off the 4th into Worcester. He had the skillset for a 2nd/3rd guy but as space for his developing skills shrank him to the bottom lines where he was ineffective as a scorer due to the quality of teammates with him, he started getting this mentality of “I gotta contribute more while i’m on the ice”, and so started changing his playstyle to one of the typical 4th line enforcer.
We have baddies like McLaren and Mashinter for that, it isn’t needed from him, and I don’t think he’ll see that until he gets off the 4th simply because he’s the kind of kid that wants to make an impact when he is playing, and he can’t do that with scoring on the 4th cause he can’t do it alone, so instead he’s doing it with the body and letting his other skills rot.
You’re on fire today aren’t you.
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 29, 2011 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions
I’d like to see the Sharks pair up their top 6 and find guys that will fill a “roll” on the other wing.
Haven’t looked at ice time but I’d really like to see Heatley/Pavs – Heatley’s had his best years w/ a right handed center and maybe they can find some chemistry. Then they have JT/Marleau and Clowe/Couture.
Heatley's effectivness is not as dementional..
as the rest of the top six. Yes, he has the rocket and has had a better year in his past than any goal scorer on the team but, this is due to his roll and line mates IMO. I think Heatley will have his best numbers when parked in the crease, he is great at getting a one-step open spot and has a fast release. I agree with keeping him separate from Jumbo and Patty and I like the idea of adding McGinn’s speed and grit to that line but Heatley still needs a talented set up man. I would like to see him spend some time on a line with Wellwood. Wellwood has amazing talent and makes some unbelievable passes on the tape that almost surprise the recipient. Heatley needs to simplify his game maybe more than anyone on the team and a guy like Wellwood could accent this quite well I think.
So, these lines?
Marleau – Thornton – Mitchell/McGinn
Clowe – Couture – Ferriero
Heatley – Pavelski – Wellwood
McGinn/Mitchell – Dejardins – Other
That’s kind of awesome. Although it may be spreading ourselves too thin.
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
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Yeah, I agree.
But I do think it’s pretty awesome that any of those could pass as the top line on some other (admittedly much weaker) teams.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
I feel that if the Clowture line continues to produce like last year, and if a Heatley-Pavs line existed, you would be able to make those as top lines on about half of the league’s teams, easy if you had a 3rd reliable winger..
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
by SeanCrosby87 on Jun 29, 2011 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Heatley’s effectiveness is not as dementional..
He always seemed a little demented to me.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s his bionic eye, if he had been in revenge of the nerds, the little kid could of drilled a hole for him to look through with that thing to record the sorority girls and i bet it would of done it in HD for them.
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jun 28, 2011 7:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Always reminds me of the villain from Last Action Hero.
Although I think there’s a better scene where he has targeting cross-hairs on the left eye like Heater. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
No it’s more the late third period penalties and flying elbows at Steve Ott’s dome.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 11:49 PM PDT up reply actions
The problem with that plan is that then the 3rd line changes from a 3rd offensive threat to just like the 4th line, a role playing line of checking, only with slightly more scoring ability than the 4th.
What makes teams dangerous down the stretch is depth. Chicago had it in their run to the cup, Vancouver had it in their failed run (failed to injuries imo), and amazingly enough Boston had it.
One of the things that differentiates the playoffs from the regular season is that coaching battle of line vs line. It always exists int he regular season, however most strategy that is used in those games are more broad spectrum because they play a new opponent every couple days, the coaches don’t have their guys change their playstyle to match and counter the other team’s because doing that so frequently would turn detrimental and confusing to the players.
However in the playoffs you’re facing the same team multiple times in a row, so the line vs line and playstyle vs playstyle matchups become magnified, and so teams without offensive depth down their roster can’t get away with lucky goals from the top line vs the bottom line very often because coaches will often get certain matchups up against each other all the time and thus defend top lines better etc. This is where the depth comes in because if your 3rd line is almost as potent a scoring threat as your 2nd line is, but the opponent’s isn’t, then your 3rd has the advantage over them etc.
Thus enters the saying/philosophy that in the palyoffs you need scoring from everywhere because you can’t generally rely on only your top line for it.
So in the end, if they roll Pavelski back into the top 6, the 3rd line will be a checking line, because there isn’t really a chance in the world that the Sharks could sign 2-3 UFAs that are decent scorers (not to mention PKers for our now primary need).
If you’re replying to my post about keeping the fowards in pairs, it’s so the Sharks can have 3 scoring lines. I don’t like the idea of a ‘checking’ line especially since McLellan likes to go power vs. power.
The Sharks will pick up at least one, likely two forwards, and there’s no reason they can’t find some guys that will fit into a role on any of those lines.
I think Heatley needs more than just the summer months to recover from the groin injury plus broken hand and ankle injury… rumor was he had surgery as well? Not sure if we can confirm this or not. I would probably have Heatley sit longer to get closer to 100%- then reunite HTML.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
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Agreed about Eager
I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I think Eager would actually be a good player for Thornton to babysit. I wouldn’t mind a top line of Marleau/Thornton/Eager.
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by CaliforniaJag on Jun 28, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Yep
Definitely a minority
GO SHARKS!
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Well
He’s clearly got goal-scoring talent. He’s too undisciplined, but perhaps playing with two extremely disciplined players would help him in that regard? Just an idea. McGinn makes a lot of sense to me, honestly.
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by CaliforniaJag on Jun 28, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno
I think he lives in fear of a good spanking. Or maybe that’s just what he tells Tommy Wingels to keep the kid in line.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
It's not just the lack of discipline
Ben Eager just can’t play 17+ minutes a night. He’s a 4th liner with hands. Yes, he was a first rounder because of those hands, but he’s 27, and his game isn’t going to change. And the discipline IS a problem. Guy is a ticking time bomb and has been his entire career. He kills offensive momentum with dumb penalties.
McGinn, at 22, does have a chance to change his game, but I don’t think he’s ready for full time top line minutes either. He can have a few stints at the top line this season and maybe be ready for consistent top 6 minutes after a full season or two.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
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I’m with you, I’ve been missing HTML. And I liked FCC, too. Ferreiro was just filler, but I still liked that line’s chemistry
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 28, 2011 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions
If LA lets him walk...
what about Michal Handzus? I think he PK’s, I know he’s one of their defensive guys.
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The approach to the 3rd line really depends upon whether the Sharks decide Wellwood should be brought back. If he is, then the Sharks should get a winger that either a) can convert on the opportunities presented by playing with Wellwood and Pavs or b) can keep up with the top line if the Sharks slot Heatley with Wellwood and Pavs.
Either way, bringing back Wellwood signals to me that the Sharks are going to go 3 scoring lines deep, and the PK forward will be a 4th line grinder. If that is the case, bring back Mike Grier and slot him with Mitchell and Desjardins, or go out and get a solid vet like John Madden who will just be happy to be on a contender.
If Wellwood doesn’t come back, then the Sharks will likely be looking at a straight checking 3rd line. If that is the case, than a guy like Handzus fits in much better.
Wellwood coming back will depend on if they want the 3 scoring lines or if they want Pavs up to fill Seto’s role, because without Pavs on the 3rd Wellwood won’t be able to pull that line together (it was mostly the speed and playmaking of wellwood and mitchell setting up pavs for goals on the 3rd).
I hope they go offensive depth, it made the sharks simply hard to play against.
I think LA is letting him walk
Because he’s inconsistent and possibly even lazy. Not sure I want.
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Agreed...
I thought he was a liability for LA in the first round. He seemed to be lazy and dragging himself around the ice toward the end of his shifts. He looked to be injured or out of shape and there was never an injury report on him after LA was eliminated. We currently don’t have a player like that and I don’t want acquire one of those now.
I’d like to see Handzus or Belanger. Handzus could be too pricy (last contract was 4 mil) but more likely to be available with LA cap space clearing. Belanger is a better option than Handzus in terms of points and saw similar qual comp as Handzus, and is much cheaper (1.7mil then went to a single 750k year, so he could be gotten at 2-2.5 likely), however that cheapness will make him more likely to be retained or sought after for other people.
Overall I’d prefer Belanger, because with his goal and assist totals, he could be put into the 2nd line (to keep the current 3rd intact to resign wellwood, though they could mix up mcginn and mitchell for chemistry purposes) and contribute, while then put onto the first half of the pk and still get some rest for a couture line following the pk.
Joe's already babysitting Patty
We should give him someone more established like Heater.
Put Ferriero with Cloweture. Couture and Ferriero have established chemistry.
Jamie McGinn should be on one of Pav’s wings. Pavelski can provide McGinn with what Joe Thornton would, without the demands of top line minutes (something McGinn is probably not ready for). McGinn would also be an offensive upgrade to Torrey Mitchell, who I think should be on the 4th line, and play the top PK pairing. Torrey’s strengths on Pavelski’s wing was getting to loose pucks and crashing the crease. I think Jamie McGinn can do that just as well. If Kyle Wellwood is retained, which I’m very much on the fence about, then there’s your line. If he’s not, Mitchell stays with Pavs, and having a big body like McGinn just makes Mitchell’s job a bit easier.
If Wellwood isn’t retained, we need an entirely new 4th line, which probably starts with Desjardins, and 2 UFA PKers. I honestly think this line should be the designated checking line, playing approximately third line minutes, and spreading out the minutes for the 3 scoring lines.
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I know we have differing views, but...
Joe’s already babysitting Patty; We should give him someone more established like Heater.
that sentence doesn’t even make sense to me.
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by jwizzle241 on Jun 28, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Haha, yes, I'm hating on Patty again
But my issue with putting young guys on Joe’s line is that it teaches them to wait for Joe’s perfect passes. Patty standing around the zone seems to be a function of this. Patty with Cloweture seems to make more and more sense to me because those two are constantly moving, and Patty might be forced to skate.
If Heatley’s healthy, then he fits Joe’s game very well because (provided his groin is 100%), he’s so strong on his skates, he can hold down the fort near the net and score the garbage goals that pad his stats. That would mean putting someone like Ferriero on the top line with Joe and Dany to receive the passes and take the shots that Heatley’s going to clean up the rebound on.
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You are one of the only people I know who can dog on a player who consistently (at least for the last three years) scores around 40 goals. In the last three year, he’s one of the league’s most productive forwards, despite the fact that he also commits defensively to the game.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
It's his LACK of commitment to defense that bothers me
He got his contract because of his strong play at the start of ‘09-’10, and it’s how he got on Team Canada. Since then, he’s become a defensive pylon, and there’s a lot more coast in his game.
I’m honestly fine if Patty remains a streaky scorer. He’s been that way his entire career, and it’s never been a problem. The defensive issues, though, are mounting, and THAT, to me, is the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
Patty simply throws too many stick checks, spends too much time watching the play, and doesn’t block shots on the PK enough for my taste to justify his playing time or his contract.
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I thought he got onto Team Canada as a package deal
HTML was the scariest line in the NHL at that point. No way they were gonna mess with that chemistry.
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I don’t think “streaky” is the correct way to put it, as only Ovechkin has more goals over the last three years. “Elite” works fine with me.
Marleau got his contract, and that’s that. Nothing much you can do about it now, but when you look at the offensive production, I would say that the contract was warranted and deserved.
I don’t understand your “straw that breaks the camels back” comment. Marleau has lost a bit when it comes to his defensive game, but it’s partially a factor of the players he’s been paired with. Thornton made strides last year, but Setoguchi and Boyle aren’t the most dependable when it comes to defensive assignments. It’s not their primary concern.
Marleau got paid, but he’s one of the most affordable pure goal scorers out there. Most don’t tend to play any defense. Marleau could improve in this regard, but I think you’re being far too harsh on one of the most offensively productive (and mostly healthy, I might add) players in the NHL.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I say streaky because when he scores, he scores in bunches. Patty tends to get 2 at a time for several games, especially in the spring, and seems to have big dry stretches early in the season.
By the numbers, he’s absolutely elite. But that type of “streakiness” is a double edged sword. Patty has great post-season numbers. But in series where the Sharks have been eliminated, he has often been ineffective. You can argue that’s a team issue (Anaheim comes to mind), but in other cases (Detroit, defensively against Chicago), he’s been a liability. Streakiness is a killer. You don’t know which Marleau you are going to get.
I’ve been on the fence with Marleau for a few seasons for various reasons, but his defensive regression put me over the top. I was probably in the minority that supported a change in Captaincy. I know the consensus is that the C is largely symbolic, but I feel as though Joe, and to a lesser extent Rob Blake, chose to make something of it, and I just never saw the same from Patty.
It’s easy to get behind fiery, expressive guys like Joe, Clowe, Owen Nolan, Scott Nichol and the like. Patty’s a frustrating guy. He’s got so much raw talent, and I just don’t feel like he uses enough of it at any given time. Put me in Jeremy Roenick’s camp. Patty just frustrates me.
The fact that he’s healthy just makes it even more frustrating. If he is healthy, why does he look so slow in key situations? Why wasn’t he taking faceoffs in Game 5 and Joe Thornton had to with a bum shoulder? Why, why, why was the F***ING STANCHION THERE?!?!?!
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We’re always going to disagree on this point I think, and that’s fine. Hard in my opinion to call out the second-most frequent NHL goal scorer over the last three seasons.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm fine with that
Patty IS a great player. For my money, best first stride in the league. There’s nothing greater than seeing him take that step and watching defenseman absolutely crap their pants as they realize they’re already beaten. I’ll take that guy giving the quiet but intense fistpump after he scores.
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Where is the JR Camp, and are there any spots left?
I’m looking for a camp for the upcoming holiday weekend.
Patty was super frustrating come playoff time. I can’t remember a player being more clutch (other than Pavelski) in the regular season with last second goals (there were several games where he scored the tying goal with less than :30 on the clock) who just seemed to vanish. Esp this season. I really hope we get to see more plays like this one in 2011-12:
http://youtu.be/hpeck6-ZQtY
I think that has to be my absolute favorite Marleau goal of the season. Although it might just stick out in my head because it’s the last one I saw.
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by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Bahaha. Strong finish.
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I pretty much agree with this...
I think the entire reason for Heatley moving off the first line to begin with was because our scoring depth sucked. But with Couture emerging as a force, and Clowe stepping his game up, and our ability to put Pavs on the third line, that is no longer the case. So why would we gimp one of our most talented offensive weapons by not putting him in the best chance to succeed? I think Heatley on Thornton’s wing makes the most sense.
I also think Ferriero is the one guy who would succeed most in the top 6. He had some decent chemistry last season with Clowture, and I think he could find it again now that he has more experience under his wing.
McGinn is really a 3rd line ceiling guy, IMO. But him on Pavelski’s wing could be decent. I actually really liked the Desjardins-McGinn pairing in the playoffs. They could be useful on the 4th line.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions
So why would we gimp one of our most talented offensive weapons by not putting him in the best chance to succeed? I think Heatley on Thornton’s wing makes the most sense.
Exactly. A player with talents as specific as Heatley’s needs to be put in the best situation in which to utilize those talents, and only Joe Thornton can provide that situation.
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Match-ups
Think of it from a coaching stand point. It’s a lot easier to focus on shutting down one line rather than 3. When you spread out your talent, you create holes in their defense. I like them together on the PP but vote to spread them them out as plan-a, plan-b or c might be putting them back together.
I agree on matchups
But I think it’s been made pretty clear that McLellan likes to roll power with power. At some point, your best players have to just BE better. If stability in the lineup improves chemistry, and makes the non-HTML lines better, so be it.
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I'll concur that Heatley with Joe makes the most sense
But Heatley fit the Cloweture game plan very well. I think he adapted his game very admirably to fit with those two. It’s a bit of chicken/egg as to whether it was Heatley that helped Cloweture or the other way around (the evidence would suggest that it was slightly more Cloweture, as they were having outstanding seasons by themselves), but Heatley has demonstrated at least some flexibility moving from one line to the other. I think that’s an important aspect as well. Heatley might need Joe to be a 50 goal man, but he doesn’t need Joe to be top 6 talent and help stabilize the lineup. It’s not often you look to wingers to provide that stability. That usually falls to centermen.
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Heatley is paid the big bucks to score goals… lots of them. I think once he’s 100%, he still wouldn’t get near the goal production he would get from being fed by Jumbo. I think we do have the scoring depth right now… the only question is, who would be on the other side of Couture if Heater is moved back to the 1st line? Who would have the best chemistry with Cloweture? That’s the biggest mystery to me. If Wellwood signs, do we break up Hellacopter? I wouldn’t but who’s strong enough to stay in the 2nd line… both Clowe and Couture have decent defensive games with tons of scoring. Hard to say who can hang with those two.
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by winthecupsj on Jun 28, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I still like Ferriero for Cloweture
Established chemistry, a decent mixture of relatively complimentary playing styles, and some evidence that it’d work at the top level based on their performance together last season.
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I'm not sure where I stand with Heater.
I wouldn’t mind having Heater on our top line, but it doesn’t really feel like Heatley and Thornton have good chemistry. Maybe it’s just unrealistic expectations, but I don’t think I like them together as much as apart.
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The more we talk about this...
The more I love the trade for Burns. I think we are going to be alright without Seto, and I think some players are going to be in a better situation to succeed (McGinn, Heatley, maybe even Marleau). Also, DW has learned over the past few years that any holes in the lineup can be absolutely destructive- he won’t leave any spots open.
I’m 100% for the Seto-Burns trade. I agree with everything that’s been said about it in terms of how much it improves the team and agree that it fills a glaring hole that’s existed for some time. However, I don’t agree at all that a player like McGinn has any place on the 2nd line of this team, let alone the top line. Hell, he probably doesn’t even belong on the 3rd line. I’m not at all convinced that the brief glimpse of offensive pop McGinn displayed in 09-10 was anything more than a flash in the pan, and I don’t think there’s any option within the organization for filling the void left by Seto. I’m a big Ferriero fan, but I don’t see him being a suitable replacement either, at least not on the top line with Marleau and Thornton.
I’m a firm believer that Heatley should never have been moved to the 2nd line, and was flabbergasted as to why it ever happened, particularly the season immediately after he scored 39 goals playing with Marleau and Thornton. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
The solution in my opinion is to move Heater back to the top line, and wait until Friday and see what the free agent market can yield with regard to an effective 2nd line winger with scoring pop, and even better, one with both scoring pop and penalty killing ability.
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Understand your concern with McGinn, but you have to remember that the player is just 22 years old. He’s succeeded at every level and has the tools to continue to do so, I’ve been a firm believer that he just hasn’t had the opportunity to succeed – one of the coaching staff’s only/biggest mistakes in my opinion was the way that they have used McGinn up to this point in his career.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
McGinn has been totally mismanaged
But I don’t think that means we put him on the top line immediately. Like I said, playing with a guy like Pavelski could be very good for him. I hear Pavs is a pretty decent playmaker himself, and he could probably babysit a guy like McGinn.
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Well, I think McGinn could score more with Thornton who is leaps and bounds better than McGinn. I’m not saying you just hand the guy the role and never look back, but in my opinion it’s the most interesting possibility.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I think McGinn could score more with Thornton who is leaps and bounds better than McGinn.
I think the point of the article is that almost ANYONE could though, right?
If that’s true, is McGinn best served playing top line minutes and learning how to be Joe Thornton’s winger, or would he learn a more complete NHL game playing with Pavelski?
I think there’s arguments either way. Then again, I’m starting to lean towards Benn Ferriero on the top line, so why not put McGinn up there.
At the end of the day, I just don’t see McGinn spending more than 30 games on the top line before the coaching staff panics after two loses and splits them up anyway. At least with putting HTML back together, those guys have established chemistry and can hold down the fort while some of the other 3 lines have a chance to develop their own.
That being said, when the rubix cube comes out, I’d not be unhappy with McGinn up there.
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Many could. I think McGinn is the best candidate for the most improvement.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
The way I see it, if we can ice a top line that’s shown they’re capable of scoring 250+ points between them, I say we do it. And with the rise of Couture and Clowe, and the great potential the 3rd line showed as they were constructed last season, I don’t see any reason not to.
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Anyone could score more with Thornton as their center. It’s going to happen. Ryan Vesce looked decent on Thornton’s wing, for Christ-sake…but its not in our best interest to put someone that overmatched there all the time. If McGinn is going to grow his game into a scorer, he either needs to do so at the AHL (just tear it up down there…he’s been solid, but definitely not a stud at that level yet), or work his way up the depth chart. Putting him on a 3rd line with Pavelski seems like a decent test. If he can prove to be a reliable asset there, look at moving him up…but I think throwing him up top, with the minutes that entails, is asking for trouble.
Ferriero, who I would put up there (on the second line, as I’m an HTML guy), has had a little success on the 2nd line already, so we know he can do it.
In the end…we all know Seto’s production will not be solved by one man. But I think it makes sense to put everyone in their best position to succeed…and I do not think McGinn is ready for the top line.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Ferriero has had a little success, to the tune of a five goal outburst than a consistent downfall until moved to the AHL.
Have to say I think McGinn’s 10 goal season is more impressive, and both he and Ferriero have similar AHL numbers, and played the same amount of minutes there. Top-line minutes.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions
I think I should be on Thornton's wing
I can totes skate from the bench to the net (with a little practice), so it’ll be good, right? Jumbo will just get the puck on my stick and I just knock it in, right?
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
I DEMAND DESJARDIN'S JERSEY NUMBER.
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by ninakix on Jun 28, 2011 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
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by Auth0r on Jun 28, 2011 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I say a lot of things.
USUALLY LOUDLY.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
LESS PANTS!
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions
buzz kill.
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by ZombieSkittles on Jun 28, 2011 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough vis-a-vis the age argument, but I would counter that by sayingi that he could use a few more years in Worcester.
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I think the fact that he scored 10 goals in a third line role two years ago, and during his stints in the AHL he’s been around a point-per-game producer, means he’s more fit for NHL time.
How many goals did Nichol score this year, Mayers? Ben Eager?
4th line, especially for a player like McGinn, is a developmental death sentence.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s still not quite up to a point a game. He had 47 games and 11 points the first year there, 21 points in 27 games the second, and 20 points in 30 games this year. I think a decent chunk of that might be confidence hits from being bounced up and down to the NHL, but I’d like to see him hit a full point a game and really light up the AHL or get on a big hotstreak in a Bottom 6 role before we try and push him to a Top 6 role in the NHL.
I think another year in the AHL will help McGinn more toward an NHL Top 6 role than a year on the 4th line, and if he fucks up AT ALL in the NHL Top 6, they’ll drop his ass so fast he’ll get re-entry burns and he might never make it back. On the other hand, I’d definitely rather see McGinn in the NHL than the AHL, personally, so I think trying him on the 3rd and 4th lines is the safest way to do that without putting him in a situation where’s gotta walk a perfect tightrope.
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4th line, especially for a player like McGinn, is a developmental death sentence.
Agreed, though more time in the AHL wouldn’t be, in my opinion.
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The organization just has to figure out what to do and stick with it. If he’s playing on the top line in the AHL, don’t bring him up just to play scrap minutes on the 4th line.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions
I’d agree with this. I hated when they did the same thing to Couture when he first came up…plugging him in on the 4th line. It does not help a goal scorer progress in his abilities to score goals.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I honestly feel the coaching staff has done the same thing with Ferriero
He’ll come up, look good, and he’s gone. I honestly can’t remember the kid doing anything horribly wrong, and yet, he doesn’t stick. I just can’t tell why.
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Ferriero got bumped out cause they felt Seto was working his way back up and Ferriero was seemingly static. Seto got bumped up for Ferriero who then stayed on teh 3rd for a couple games if i recall correctly before dropping to AHL, and then Seto and Heatley were swapped, and then things gelled.
Similar to McGinn, he was given a chance in the 3rd but got bumped back down to the 4th because his playstyle had already regressed too much. Hopefully a fresh reboot this offseason and training camp can get him back to his roots, as well as the essential vet clearing of the 4th.
Overall it is a matter of space. The 4th line is that developmental gutter, and the prospects that come up as goal scorers can’t legitimately do anything there last year when it was filled primarily with the bruiser vets of Mayers Eager and Nichol. Anyone else dumped into the 4th couldnt really do anything with their skill.
However with Nichol and Mayers departing and Eager not likely retained (if he was going to be I think he would have by now), I think the 4th line has a chance to finally more away from the energy fighting and bruising line to the energy worcester line, and so finally field what could be a top worcester line and actually have some speedier scoring players there, so that it becomes less and less the gutter for the scoring prospects and a legitimate place for them to come up and test their abilities at the NHL level.
Matt – I agree with you. McGinn has 3rd line talent at the least, especially on a team with a high scoring 3rd line like SJ, and deserves a chance to prove he’s capable of even more.
IMO, I think he does well on either the 2nd or 1st line and Heater does well on either line as well. The question in my mind is more along the lines of who does Couture and Clowe benefit from having on their line. I think the pair did better with a speedier player on the line so it’ll be interesting to see how the chemistry works out this year. It’s also hard to judge Heatley’s time on either the 1st or 2nd line since he was injured so much of the year.
Maybe Mitchell even gets a crack at one of the higher lines but his offensive prowess seems to be lacking. He’s almost got that Goc’ness about him. With the goalie pushed back inside the net, he still manages to shoot the open look right into the goalie’s chest or off a crossbar.
When's the next podcast by the way... ... ...
Plenty to cover … next roster moves, line combo’s, DW’s ability to keep Demers, Couture, Burns after the season, etc.
Seto: Less than Favorable relationship w/ TMac?
Can anyone further explain this? Did i miss something or just read it wrong that TMac and Seto didn’t get along at times? Or does this make it sound worse than it really is?
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Setoguchi and the coach, based on our experience talking to both him and Todd McLellan, didn’t have the greatest relationship. McLellan always seemed to hold Seto accountable more than others, called him out a few times for his compete level and had a shorter leash with him when it came to line combinations.
This could all be smoke, but it’s what I saw.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Can I hire Jumbo as a babysitter?
I need someone to watch over me! :-)
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by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions
That would get really naughty, really fast!!!! LOL
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 28, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I look at it like this
If you have Heatley-Marleau-Thornton all on the top line, opposing teams HAVE to put their top defense pair out against them, they just have to.
That means the 2nd and 3rd lines will ALWAYS be playing against 2nd and 3rd pairing defensemen. In previous seasons, our 2nd and 3rd lines just didn’t have enough scoring punch to take advantage of those matchups. However, the emergence of Couture and the re-emergence of Clowe allows the Sharks to drop Pavs to the 3rd line and changes things dramatically.
Couture’s and Pavs’ lines should DEMOLISH 2nd and 3rd pairing defensemen. But if you break up HTML, you allow opposing teams the opportunity to spread out the defensive matchups and lessen the advantage our 2nd and 3rd lines would have.
But I suppose if you HAVE to
put someone else besides Heatley on the top line…I firmly believe that player needs to be a right handed shot.
When Thornton comes out from behind the net on his forehand (better for passing), a pass to right-handed shooter in the circle is MUCH more dangerous. It’s easier for a right handed player to one-time the shot and it is harder for a defender to disrupt the pass as it will be more to the outside than if the target of the pass was left-handed
A couple things
1. If we have to choose between Ferriero or McGinn playing on our top 6 i think we should go with McGinn. As you guys mentioned, I think he has a much higher ceiling than Ferriero does, and playing with Thornton could awaken the goal-scorer in him we’ve been waiting to see. Giving McGinn some time playing with Pavs on the 3rd could work out as well. I think though that this is all assuming we aren’t able to sign a top 6 forward or a badass top 9 PK forward (there aren’t many left).
2. I think Patty needs to stay with Thornton. They have good chemistry and frankly, I don’t know if Patty can even play with anyone else at this point. When Patty plays on other lines he seems to make a lot of random drop passes and no look passes that leave other linemates going, “wtf?”. Thornton seems to be the only guy who really understand Patty.
I think Heatley has really evolved his game; he’s become much better defensively and has become much more of a passer than in years past. I think if he’s healthy next year that he’ll look awesome playing with Cloweture on our 2nd line. He’d still be amazing on Thornton’s wing i’m sure but i think it’s better for our scoring depth, and for Heatleys play in general, for Heater to play with Cloweture.
it’s funny the effect Thornton seems to have on his linemates. He seems to make them get a little complacent and just sit back waiting for the pass rather rushing up the ice and creating their own opportunities.
I really wish we could get our hands on a guy like Blake Wheeler. I really think he’d be a perfect linemate for Thornton. He’s a huge power forward who can skate, play well along the boards, finish on his chances, and kill penalties.
I wonder if DW is maybe looking for a top 6 guy (hopefully like Wheeler) via trade, and what we could offer. It sounds like next years draft is going to be pretty stacked so I wonder if he’s willing to trade picks.
Did Wheeler get a QO from Winnipeg? Just wondering what his RFA status looks like right now…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah he did. So we could probably offersheet him for soemthing under 3.1 mill and only give up a 2nd. Though i’m sure Winnipeg would match it.
Yeah, I’m not sure what the Peg’s plans are this offseason…sometimes I read they want to shed salary and change things up, but that doesn’t make sense at all.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Wheeler is probably worth a Seto kind of deal (3/9), but that would probably just be matched by Winny. Who knows, though. I agree that he would be a very solid addition if we could get him…
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah that would be a perfect contract for him. It’d be pretty dumb of Winnipeg not to match that though.
If we do try to offersheet him we should maybe try to do it ASAP because they have a lot of RFA’s they need to sign so maybe they won’t want to commit 3 mill to Wheeler right now when they have other important players they need to resign to big contracts like Bogosian and their captain Andrew Ladd. I imagine there are a lot of other issues that they’re dealing with atm being a new team, so maybe now is a good time to throw them an offer sheet and force them to commit to a contract that they may view as slight overpayment.
Yeah. I mean, it would require Wheeler to sign the offer sheet…and who knows if he wants to leave Winnipeg right before he’s about to be treated like royalty. I suspect a trade for a draft pick is probably the better way to go.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Which is better
King of a mud hut or commoner in a great city?
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It's good to be king...
Also, you’d think competing for a Stanley Cup would be a powerful attractor…but Canadians are weird like that.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Canadians are funny
They keep thinking a team north of the border can with the Cup. It’s adorable.
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Lucic! He’s the second Ryane Clowne that I want for the third line.
by meetyourmako on Jun 28, 2011 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions
Fuck Lucic
He’s such a phony tough guy
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Changing signatures is for suckers.
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And costs way too much money… I remember when people though Clowe was overpaid.
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Oh yeah now that i think about it, Wheeler was one of the most enthusiastic guys on the team about moving to Winnipeg, but that’s probably just because he only played in Atlanta for a month and you always gotta say you’re excited for your new team and city and all that.
Oh snap, Pitkanen signed for 3 years @ 4.5m each year.
This year’s UFA market is going to be seriously terrible.
I wonder who Detroit is planning on getting to replace Rafalski.
I think that’s an awesome deal…and one that DW should immediately use as framework to get Burns extended.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
God lets hope so.
I have a feeling his agent isn’t going to want to sign a contract until next offseason, or late in the regular season.
If i was him or his agent i would definitely want to wait. You gotta think with Burns playing on a team with the talent the Sharks have that he’s going to have a career year.
Yeah, but maybe Burns wants to settle down somewhere for a while. The agent can only drive as hard a bargain as the player is willing to put up with.
But yeah, I suspect he waits.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Between the Pitkanen deal, Bieksa deal – to Kieth/Seabrook, there’s a lot of comps for DW to use in negotiations. Problem is Burns’ agent sounds like a total prick.
The one thing that DW might have going for him is that the CBA expires next year and Burns and his family may want security just in case there’s a lockout, or a lower salary cap, or a rollback on salaries, etc…if you look at the framework of Bieksa’s contract, maybe Burns will want something along those lines (only more $$ likely)
I think 4.5 a year would be fair for Burns…and someone as young as him, I’d be willing to go to 5 years. Not sure if DW wants to break his 4 years or less mold, but Burns seems like a player who it might be worth it to go longer on.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
.
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Definitely break the 4-year term "rule"
For someone like Burns. DW did it for Michalek so I don’t know where this rule came from. Sounds like DW posturing.
5-7 yrs / between $5.5-6.5m sounds about right.
by IsThisTheYear? on Jun 28, 2011 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions
That's a great deal for Carolina.
Pitkanen could have gotten 5 mill easy on the open market.
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by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 28, 2011 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, so Joe Thornton is not a lousy babysitter.
Is the next post going to disprove the fact that Patrick Marleau is not a lousy medium?
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We should probably be talking more about Wellwood at this point shouldn't we?
If we’re going to talk about forwards playing in our top 6 or top 9 that don’t kill penalties, shouldn’t we be talking about Wellwood instead of Mcginn or Ferriero?
As Plank has pointed out, Wellwood had some pretty unbelievable advanced stats (like literally, i kind of don’t believe them lol) that make you wonder what kind of points he could rack up with a little luck and another year in SJ.
I personally wasn’t that interested in Wellwood since he’s kinda small and doesn’t kill penalties, but Wellwood is still better than Ferriero in almost every way isn’t he?
If Wellwood was brought back, he wouldn’t be playing in the top six..he would solely play on the third line..and that would mean that our third line would be a pseudo scoring line rather than a tough checking line…All things that Wilson has to answer
He could work on the 2nd line with Cloweture just as well as Ferriero could i’m sure.
He’s not someone i wanted to retain earlier in the offseason either, but our options seem really limited now.
You only retain Wellwood if the plan is to keep Pavelski on the 3rd line for offensive depth. Wellwood can’t do it alone with Mitchell and a 3rd, as the majority of the scoring on the line came from those 2 setting up Pavelski.
It is possible he could work out ok with Couture, but if you’re looking at the scenario where you’re not putting Pavs in the top 6 then Wellwood is better suited with him, and then you can bump Mitchell up/down and slot McGinn with Wellwood and Pavelski.
Wellwood is still better than Ferriero in almost every way isn’t he?
Benn Ferriero shoots the puck. I’m just sayin’.
With Wellwood, what you see is what you get in my view. He’s a smallish playmaker who does well against lower level competition. With Ferriero, I think we have no idea what kind of ceiling he has. Kid’s got some tenacity, which is good since he lacks size, has already proven he can play in the top 9 immediately, and seems pretty close to cracking the top 6, and has speed and a decent shot. I think he has much more potential upside than Wellwood, who, while very gifted, will probably never truly be a top 6 guy. He’s perfect for the third line, but I think his performance is going to price him out of that role.
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With Wellwood, what you see is what you get in my view. He’s a smallish playmaker who does well against lower level competition.
I can agree with that, but i see Ferriero as a smallish shooter (I don’t think i can say ‘goal-scorer’ about a guy who’s only scored 5 goals in the NHL) who does well against lower level competition (by that i mean AHLers).
Frankly i’m not very excited about either of them being in our top 6 but if i gotta choose one i go with the guy who’s looked good in more than just a few games, and that’s Wellwood.
A playmaking winger like Wellwood could be a good compliment to a goal scoring center like Couture, and his advanced stats show that he could probably handle a step up in competition.
Nice, the Desjardin and Stalock contracts are both super Cheap.
Desjardin’s is a 1 year deal at 540k, and Stalock’s is also a 1 year deal at 625k.
So if we were to trade Niitty at the deadline and call up Stalock as our backup it would free up 1.375 million extra cap space. Since there aren’t many great UFA’s to sign this year i have a feeling we’ll be going into the season with a lot of extra cap space as it is, so we could probably pick up a real quality defensive defenseman at the deadline before the playoffs start to give us some extra depth on D.
Not at the start of the year, but possibly by the trade deadline from what i remember reading about his injury.
If Stalock isn’t going to be ready for camp (and per DW’s lunch a week ago, that’s not on the table), it’s unlikely he’ll be back by the trade deadline. He’s going to need to rebuild his strength and stamina, as well as making sure his reflexes are still sound. Beyond that rehab work, he’ll need to prove himself in the AHL before he jumps back to the NHL.
I’m as excited about him as anyone, but this needs to be a rehab year for Stalock with a slight chance of coming back to the NHL, not a year of high expectations for him to make Nitty expendable.
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Ah well if he’s not ready by then we can always bring up Hutton, or Sexsmith or someone. Our backup goaltender shouldn’t be very important in the playoffs, at least not as important as a quality 6th/7th defenseman.
Ideally though, Petrecki or Doherty get called up during the regular season and look right at home. =P
I’m actually curious to see how the goaltending works itself out for the AHL and ECHL. If Stalock isn’t ready at the start of the season I see a Sateri/Sexsmith tandem and Heemskerk in the ECHL.
However, I think this is Sexsmith’s last chance to make an impression before he’s not retained next year.
There were also a couple of goalies that weren’t drafted this year so I’m very interested to see the invite list for their development camp next month. Deserres seems like he could be a ‘diamond in the rough’ kind of goalie – interested to see where he ends up.
He can be not ready for camp yet ready for the deadline because it is a matter of ~5 months. It just depends HOW close he is at camp time. Do I think it is likely? No, because the cap savings at the deadline won’t matter unless we get some trade loaded with our picks and nitty leaving for a 3 mil player. So the cap savings in moving Nitty and pulling Stalock up only matter in a trade, and thus unless the perfect thing comes around the Sharks will not rush Stalock’s recovery.
How about this?
FORWARDS
Benn Ferriero ($0.850m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m)
Jamie McGinn ($1.025m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Tyler Kennedy ($2.800m)
Ben Eager ($0.965m) / Vernon Fiddler ($1.100m) / Andrew Desjardins ($0.540m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($3.550m)
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Douglas Murray ($2.500m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Shane O’Brien ($2.200m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,613,334; BONUSES: $425,000
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,686,666
I’d love to get Kennedy but I doubt he hits the market. He’d play really well on Pavelski’s wing. I don’t know about Ferriero though. Maybe a different winger needs to be signed instead of him with the extra cap space that we have
Is that Jamie Mcginn's actual cap hit?
Did he reach a deal yet?
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by pooponastick on Jun 28, 2011 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I used his deal from last year because that’s his required amount for a qualifying offer per CBA…He may make more depending on whether or not he signs something else (Wilson offers something else)…
QO for McGinn is 715k
His previous cap hit included a lot of potential bonuses.
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That seems much more affordable…and a better estimation of where he should slot in salary wise, IMO.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions
He hasn’t signed yet, just got a QO.
Also, that’s too much $$ for TK and same with SOB.
And where did Mitchell go?
The Sharks also won’t likely be running w/ a 20 man roster this year and they will absolutely need to keep cap space in case of injury.
Also, that’s too much $$ for TK and same with SOB.
Better to overestimate right? I’d be happy with about 2M – 2.5M in cap space at all times..
And where did Mitchell go?
Anywhere…lol
I think 2.8 is just right for Kennedy. Ideally you’d like to get him at 2.5 but if he’s a UFA we’d probably have to overpay a little to get him.
I don’t think he’s worth that much, I think he’s a 3rd liner – 30-35 point guy who doesn’t kill penalties. For close to $3mil, I’d want someone better.
Guess I could be in the minority but I’ve watched enough of the Pens over the past couple of years to know that he, Staal and Talbot had wicked chemistry and he wasn’t so great when he was taken away from them.
He scored 25 goals this season playing with a center inferior to Thornton. Also he’d likely be killing penalties on our team; he doesn’t have much experience with it but he seems like he’d make a good PKer.
He scored 21 goals and players don’t just become penalty killers. He played w/ two of the best defensive forwards on the Pens in Staal and Talbot (or Cooke, whihchever one you want to go with) so he didn’t need to play a whole lot in his own end.
We’re just gonna have to disagree on Kennedy. I think he’d be a great pick up for the right price.
If by some miracle we did pick up Tyler Kennedy, there is no way he would accept playing on the third line, because he’s used to playing with Crosby and Malkin. I would swap Ferriero and Kennedy, but other then that, I think you have something there. Actually, now that I realize that Torrey Mitchell is still under contract, so either Mcginn or Ferriero needs to play on the 4th line. IMO it should be Ferriero.
If Kennedy isn’t signed by Wednesday night, expect something Thursday.
He could be a very effective Setoguchi replacement.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Jun 28, 2011 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions
If we picked up Kennedy, would we still have cap space to acquire our PK guys?
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by SharksFanTillDeath on Jun 28, 2011 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah we would
God TK would be an amazing pickup. We could look like this:
FORWARDS
Tyler Kennedy ($2.800m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Patrick Marleau ($6.900m)
Ryane Clowe ($3.625m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Dany Heatley ($7.500m)
Torrey Mitchell ($1.366m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Joel Ward ($2.200m)
Andrew Desjardins ($0.540m) / Jeff Halpern ($0.800m) / Jamie McGinn ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m) / Brent Burns ($3.550m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Dan Boyle ($6.666m)
Jason Demers ($1.250m) / Justin Braun ($0.875m)
GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Antero Niittymaki ($2.000m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,415,001; BONUSES: $587,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $1,884,999
Ward, Halpern, and Mitchell would get the bulk of the PK minutes, and TK, Pavelski, etc. can chip in when necessary.
This would be a sick team, and we’d have enough cap space to add another defenseman at the deadline if we moved Niitty. If Stalock’s healthy and ready to go by then we could make him our backup and that would give us 3.26 mill in cap space to acquire a defensive depth defenseman before the playoffs.
I’d rather see Ferreiro in the top 6 and the extra cap space spent on defensive depth
by dcook on Jun 28, 2011 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think TK played more with Staal and I think Talbot as a 3rd line, or I guess 1/2 line after Crosby and Malkin both went out.
Didn't he play with Staal mostly?
Wasn’t Cooke-Staal-Kennedy their third line?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 28, 2011 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah it was Staal, Kennedy, and either Cooke or Kunitz i think.
Either way, i’m sure TK would be psyched at the prospect of playing with Joe Thornton, and you could probably expect him to score even more goals next year than he did this year (25) with Staal.
That's right.
I think I saw somewhere that TK was looking for a promotion (play time with Crosby and Malkin when they’re healthy again) and pay raise in order to get a deal done with the Pens
Your all missing the most obvious solution!!!
We currently lack a German to give order and structure on our team. We also need someone who is old and late in his career to get one last shot at the cup to appease the hockey gods.
Marco Sturm is clearly the best option to go on the top line. Plus he’s a good two way player that can kill penalties.
Your welcome DW.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
by Diamondback15 on Jun 28, 2011 6:14 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Heatley's German
Just saying. Sturm would be a very viable option if he wasn’t always hurt. I would love to see him win the cup though, especially with the Sharks!
Incomplete
Need more ze Germans.
Sign Sturm, Goc, Ehrhoff and Greiss and we’d be good to go.
"Bobby Orr was available, but we couldn’t fit him in under the cap." - Todd McLellan
"BEAT DAT BEAT!!!"
Goc would be another good German option.
For the PK, at least.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 28, 2011 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I think we tried goc and got what we could out of him already
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 6:44 PM PDT up reply actions
He's had a bit of a resurgence in Nashville, though.
I doubt he comes back to San Jose, I just think he’s an intriguing option.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 28, 2011 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He looked pretty good centering the third line in Nashville, so I think he could be a fairly effective player going forward, if he can stay healthy. Just doubt it’s with the Sharks.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
yeah, i’m just saying he’s not right for this team – we tried that already
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 6:55 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re right—I especially don’t see Doug Wilson being the kind of guy who’d go back for more Goc.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
by Timorous Me on Jun 28, 2011 6:56 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and who went to BU
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
No!
Two BU Sharks have been traded already with Coyle and Nick Bonino.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
Wouldn’t the most appropriate representation of a Sharks draft pick be the one that’s traded with other scraps for a NHL superstar?
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
How do these guys sound for a 4th liner?
Fredrik Sjostrom – Good PKer, speedy
Boyd Gordon – Defensive, good faceoffer
Brad Winchester – Power Forward
Brian Sutherby – Defesive, agitatior
They were all signed for under $1m last year.
waht is a defesive?
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
by Diamondback15 on Jun 28, 2011 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn the Canucks got a 4th rounder for Erhoffs UFA rights…DW needs to try to get somethin for White’s UFA rights. It could really pay off.considering some of the good players our scouts have gotten in the later rounds.
i wonder if they are still trying to sign him though
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
They can’t now until July 1st. How big of a dick move would that be if Erhoff had a handshake deal with the Canucks already and he signs with them on July 1st after the Isles traded their 4th rounder? lol
I was, but now we have invented this amusing ehrhoff scenario. GMs should pull more dick moves for picks. I approve
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 7:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh i can’t imagine they are, unless he’s willing to take a serious discount.
DW was saying we had too many right handed offensive defensemen to sign Ian White, and that was BEFORE we acquired Brent Burns (another right handed offensive defenseman).
jeez wasn’t it two months ago we signed this guy as the right-shot power play defenseman we were looking for?
by meetyourmako on Jun 29, 2011 12:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Yuuuuup
Ian White is a nice player, but Burns is on par with talents like Dan Boyle. And he is a physical freak at 6’5’’ 220. I think size is something our D corps desperately needed and Burns provides just that, in addition to a multitude of other talents.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Jun 29, 2011 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, but with Demers ready to make a real impact, and Braun getting his shot, AND the Burns signing…we just don’t have room for him.
And I love Ian White. I was probably campaigning for us to sign him harder than anyone on here the last couple of years.
Hey, wait a second… I thought that was me!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Tweet Tweet
Matt D'Agostini
I don’t really know anything about this guy but he has nearly identical stats to Tyler Kennedy, and like TK he also didn’t get a QO and will become a UFA on July 1st if he’s not signed.
After looking him up he sounds a lot like Setoguchi. He could be a good cheap pickup who could play well on Thorntons wing.
If DW decided to fight for him on July 1st
I would definatley like to see D’Agostini on the Sharks for ~$2m. He scores, and (like almost every other player) would score more beside Thornton. The only negative i’ve heard about him is inconsistency, but that might be because he’s playing on St. Louis.
by DiscoSemenov on Jun 28, 2011 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions
The only negative i’ve heard about him is inconsistency
Like i said, he sounds a lot like Setoguchi lol. He’s a fast goal scorer with a good shot but he’s wildly inconsistent. He won’t be killing any penalties though so we’d have to make up for that elsewhere; hopefully by signing Joel Ward.
If the only UFA aquistions on July 1st were Joel Ward and a scoring winger (J. Jokinen, D’Agostini etc.) for 1 year, I would be pretty happy.
by DiscoSemenov on Jun 28, 2011 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh for sure. That’s all we really need. Another defenseman would be nice but it’s really not necessary.
And there will probably be a few good, cheap defensive defensemen floated around near the trade deadline if we so happen to need one.
by DiscoSemenov on Jun 28, 2011 7:55 PM PDT up reply actions
D’Agostini, just like TK, could’ve taken St. Louis to arbitration and won a pretty award and St. Louis didn’t want that to happen.
Also like TK, D’Agostini had a breakout season after having mediocre numbers the past few years. St. Louis is reportedly trying to sign him to a 1 year $1.5mil contract and D’Ags wanted a 2 year contract, or a 1 year closer to $2mil. The two sides are still talking.
For 1yr/$1m
Stick him on the 4th line throughout the year to provide a veteran presence for the youngsters. However, I think there might be better places to spend the money.
by DiscoSemenov on Jun 28, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
How about Wayne Gretzky? I hear those Shape Ups are working wonders.
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Hahaha, Burns missed two calls from GM Chuck Fleischer during the draft (about the trade) because he was playing Call of Duty. That’s awesome lol.
He sounds much happier than Setoguchi about the trade, and I can’t blame him.
by DiscoSemenov on Jun 28, 2011 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah
how would you feel if you went from a contender to a non-playoff team. Might be years before he gets back to the situation he was in, if he ever does
by a10dency2ask on Jun 28, 2011 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Something about Marleau contacting Burns first makes me laugh.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
So, I am guessing that I am the only one who hasn't given up on Ferriero yet?
Everyone here doesn’t seem to include him in their ideal lineups.
I am’ all for giving him and McGinn a chance on the top line.
And if Wellwood isn’t signed (I hope he is, he Mitchell, and Pavelski were a great third line) stick Ferriero on the third line. I believe he would fit in for that line because the third line may be our fastest.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
You missed the conversation earlier where myself and a few others argued for Ferriero. A lotta people here seem to not like him very much…but there are a few of us who think he could very well fit in as part of our top 6/9.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 28, 2011 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions
I am more of a fan of giving the guys we already have a shot, and if it doesn't work out, then DW can make a move.
I am also under the impression that Wellwood isn’t as appreciated as I think he should be. But it may just be a few people.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
by Diamondback15 on Jun 28, 2011 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Welly too, but it seems like brass is going to be targeting players that have more speed and are physical that can kill the PK on the third line. Welly doesn’t exactly fit that description. But what the hell do I know?
by SanFranciscoKnights on Jun 29, 2011 12:51 AM PDT up reply actions
um, Wellwood has speed. Drew and Randy said so during numerous games.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
by Diamondback15 on Jun 29, 2011 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions
I, too, am Pro-Ferriero.
I think he’s got the physical gifts to succeed and just needs some experience.
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
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