San Jose Sharks Have Cap Space To Work With During 2011 Offseason
by Mr. Plank on Jun 4, 2011 11:46 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
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The San Jose Sharks will have a lot of cap space to work with this offseason.
It's the first time in awhile the organization could really say that with any degree of confidence.
With seven forwards, five defenseman, and two goaltenders left under contract from the 2011 playoff roster, the Sharks have a grand total of $51.825 MM committed to their opening night roster to begin next season. That leaves a minimum of five forwards and one defenseman needing to be brought into the fold, an easily obtainable goal for the organization in their pursuit to land a notable name to improve their roster for next season.
And with reports from Pierre Lebrun indicating that the salary cap could rise to $63.5 MM, the amount of options available for San Jose is stronger than it has ever been.
• Daly said next year's salary cap could be as high as $63.5 million. The exact figure will be announced in late June.
For our purposes we will assume the salary cap increases to $62.0 MM per year-- it is a conservative estimate used in part to examine just how comfortable the Sharks will be if they wish to retain the majority of a roster that went to the Western Conference Finals this season.
With our conservative estimate of a $62.0 MM cap in place the Sharks come out with roughly $10.175 MM in cap space for the upcoming season. That could increase to $11.675 MM if Bill Daly's high-end estimate is met.
The big decision this offseason will be whether to re-sign Ian White and Devin Setoguchi, two players who were instrumental in San Jose's first two rounds against Los Angeles and Detroit. We'll have market comps for both of these players next week, but for the sake of our discussion today let's assume they net around $7.0 MM between them during 2011-2012.
That leaves roughly $3.175 MM left in available space left to sign four forwards who would round out the bottom forward lines, an average of $793,000 per player. Pending RFA's such as Andrew Desjardins and Jamie McGinn should bring in a contract approaching the League minimum due to their performance and importance during the regular season last year; that League minimum salary will be $525,000 according to the CBA.
The rest of the roster could either consist of bargain bin free agents and/or a smattering of players who are pending UFA's this season.
In other words, the Sharks could quite easily ice a roster that is comparable in skill to the one that went to the Western Conference Finals this season. And while they would still be lacking that number two defenseman they likely need in order to push them over the hump, there is no doubt that the team would yet again be a Stanley Cup contender from the onset of training camp.
Obtaining that number two defenseman is where things get tricky of course. San Jose would likely have to make a decision between either Ian White, Devin Setoguchi, Ryane Clowe, or Joe Pavelski in order to accommodate the salary a legitimate number two defenseman would command, let alone the amount of talent that would have to be given up if said defenseman was acquired via trade.
However, no matter which way the numbers are crunched, the San Jose Sharks have the ability to make a big splash this offseason or stand pat and rely on their younger players' progress to improve the roster from the floor up. And while obtaining that number two defenseman is something I feel is the biggest priority for the organization in order to give them a legitimate backend that can hold a third period lead, there's no doubt that the team is sitting pretty right now in respect to their ability to construct a Cup contending team.
In the modern NHL, salary flexibility is just as much of an asset as a promising prospect playing in the American Hockey League.
And for the first time in a long time, San Jose has just that.
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yay cap space!
is it october yet? this offseason is taking forever…
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 4, 2011 12:03 PM PDT reply actions
Evil stanchion.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Time to move on
I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that the Sharks have a few players who would do well to move to other teams. Derek Joslin was probably a good example of that. He’s a guy that wasn’t going to get the ice time on the Sharks to improve.
I think you can put Torrey Mitchel, and (for other reasons) Seto into that same category. They are both players that have been here a few years, shown a ton of potential, but not reached it consistently.
The trick is to find another team that can see that same thing, and actually trade value for them. Moving a couple of guys like that may be the key to getting better – provided a good #2 D is available.
So, in theory, putting Stamkos on the Sharks means we could get Macedonian Gretzky?
WORTH A SHOT.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He’s a solid backup to Nemo. Unless Stalock comes and takes the seat behind Nemo, I can’t see them letting Nitty go.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
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Nitty's crap.
Bring back the Squirrel. Or let Stalock earn his keep.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 4, 2011 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
If the Sharks manage to re-sign Meth Squirrel his agent should be shot. Seriously, the organization shit all over him this year.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Unless, of course
no other team even hints at giving him an offer. The Sharks could sign him and assign him to Worc.
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
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The WorSharks don’t need him…
I don’t think there’s really any chance the Sharks retain Greiss. Wilson/McLellan have already made it pretty clear they don’t think he’s NHL material, even as a back up and the WorSharks have Stalock/Sateri as their tandem next season.
While most think Stalock is the “future” of the Sharks, Sateri actually has a higher ceiling as far as potential goes, he will get a lot of playing time in the AHL this season.
I think that was the point of releasing him. They didn't want to waste his time and talent.
At least by releasing him, it allowed him to play in the international leagues.
Remember, we only see the public side of what happens. Lots more occurs under the Tank than we’ll ever know.
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I feel bad for him
He did nothing wrong, and has proven he can eb a legitimate goalie int he league. He made some rookie mistakes, but damn. His style is very reminiscent of a goalie the Sharks had int he 90’s, who became a beloved fan favorite.
coughirbecough
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 5, 2011 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel bad for him as well.
I was really looking forward to seeing him get a chance this past season, and that was one of the main reasons I was against the Niemi signing in the first place. Nemo grew on me, but I still feel bad for the meth squirrel.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 6, 2011 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions
Micheal Leighton crap or Roman Czechmanek crap?
And I love how Flyers goaltending being bad is somehow news.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions
GhostOfLinkGaetz: Not a fan of Finnish netminders.
"Skillet, we just spent $64,000 in that bar. So we're gonna have to get jobs to cover up the fact that we rob banks" -Mouse Fitzgerald
There's only one place Nitty belongs, and that's in Ottawa.
Where goalies go to die.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 5, 2011 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Craig Anderson was putting up some great numbers in Ottawa.
The only recent instance I can think of, regarding your statement, is Pascal Leclaire, who could have been a very good goalie if not for his injury problems. Otherwise, Ottawa’s goalies have come from within their system and not met expectations.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions
Meh.
Nitty is anything BUT a bad netminder. He just got hurt at the wrong time: When Niemi was hot.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
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Nitty getting hurt was the best thing that happened to the Sharks, all year.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 7, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec’d for being an uncomfortable truth.
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
I dunno
Was starting Niemi for 30+ games really the best thing for us? Credit to the guy for earning the job, no question. But I honestly don’t know if he was his best during the playoffs.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
He certainly wasn’t in peak form during the playoffs, but we wouldn’t have even made the playoffs (at least no higher than a 7th seed) if Niemi hadn’t stepped up his game in Nitty’s wake. Ghost makes a great, if blunt, point.
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
His improvement certainly saved the season
But it has to be asked if Niemi would have been better served being spelled more often once we were in a better position. There were plenty of opportunities to get Nitty in net that the coaching staff chose not to exercise once we were already in a better position, if not totally secure.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
No doubt, but I’m not arguing that. I’m agreeing with Ghost that Nitty’s injury caused Niemi to flick on his internal “on” switch, thereby redeeming the season. As you said, it’s on the coaching staff to monitor his minutes, since any proud goaltender (like Nabokov) isn’t about to shrink from the line of duty.
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
Sure he makes sense being traded, but the market for a $2M backup straight up just isn’t deep. Our best shot at trading him is if we include him with another player being traded, say Seto and Nitty for a higher priced D-man another team doesn’t want to pay. Really the only way it makes sense for someone to deal. He’s not good enough for a team with netminder issues like Philly to consider a clear #1 and those teams needing a backup aren’t going to spend that much when you can get a perfectly good veteran #2 for under $1M.
Not a good idea
Let me say first hand that I, like many of us, believe Stalock to be the future of Sharks home-grown goaltending. However, coming off that injury which required surgery back in February, he is not ready to assume a spot on the opening day roster. I believe he will spend at least a few games in Worcester next season before he gets called back up. But I also believe he will make his first official NHL start some time before the midpoint of the season, even if Nemo and Nitty don’t get injured before his first start.
Therefore, we need a solid back-up until Stalock is set to become a full time part of the roster. Nitty has proven himself in back-up and relief appearances many times last season, so we should hang on to him until his contract is up.
by zack007attack on Jun 4, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I like Nitty, but $2mil for a backup is too much
by JenLovesHockey on Jun 4, 2011 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions
DW Still calls it a tandem.
He was quite adamant about that on his last radio interview.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
My Twitter
Eh.
I like Niittymaki, and if the organization keeps him, that’s perfectly fine. But I think they should approach him forthrightly and honestly and say, “You signed to be part of a 1A/1B tandem, and it’s become a clear Starter/Backup situation instead through no fault of your own. If you want, we’ll have you backup and start 20-30 games. Or we can trade you to someone else who is more likely to use you as a starter or tandem.”
I just think that’s the fairest thing. And, yeah, odds are he’d opt to stay. But I feel like his fate should be in his hands, personally, since there are a ton of teams out there who need a goalie and would give him quality starts.
Nemo had a fantastic year
He managed to turn my opinion of him. But honestly, I still don’t think Nemo is a legitimate #1. He’s a 1A in my mind. Similar to Nitty. He’s going to have hot streaks, but I don’t think he is going to be an effective 65 game workhorse.
Nemo was very good in the playoffs, but not spectacular. The debate about whether his regular season workload (which included a start streak that ranks 4th in franchise history in what was his first full season in North America) had an impact on that is pretty open, but I think we need a legitimate backup, and possibly someone who can step into the starting role if Nemo falters. Nitty can do that.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I love the roster mystery of the off season
Well… except talking about it when the Stanley Cup Finals are on! Just because we aren’t there. :(
Anyways, I think $7mil between Seto and White is quite high. I think Seto will get around $2.5mil and I think White at $3.0-$3.5 mil is plenty if they both stay.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
Find me on Twitter @njahoda
I agree
I was thinking Seto would likely wish to stay in San Jose, but would also want a raise, and $2.5 million seems reasonable.
I definitely say re-sign White at roughly the same salary he made last year but give him a signing bonus as compensation for his great performance so far. With Boyle and White on our backend, we only need one more D-man who is about as top shelf as them to improve our D enough to back up our forwards past other top defenses. We saw it against Chicago and Vancouver; defense secures victories and wins championships. Great examples include Keith, Seabrook, Bieksa, and Ehrhoff. Both of these teams had better defense. I figure with our top 3 D-men, we could pair each of them with a somewhat weaker D-man to spread out the defensive power.
by zack007attack on Jun 4, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions
He already got a raise from his initial seasons, since last year’s resigning was his first contract ending. The only reason he didn’t get a multi-year deal then was because he had a poor year compared to the one he had just had. If you look at his numbers this year, they’re closer to last year’s than his best year. Now, that said, if the team was performing better in the first half, his numbers might be better.
So overall, definitely has shown he’s worth “taking the risk” on for a multi-year deal. Does him putting up similar numbers to last year (including playoffs) earn yet another raise? I don’t particularly think so. I think he’ll get a 3 year 2.2-2.3 a year deal.
I think White is going to also come in at within 200k of his last deal, which was also a 1 year “trial” type thing when he signed with Calgary because of his injury the season of his trade to them. He’ll accept it because it will be a multi-year deal (2-3 prob) on top of simply because he’d be on a contending team.
Both for 6mil or less combined is my prediction. That STILL doesn’t leave any room to fill out the bottom ranks (especially since i think we want to bring back wellwood, then fill in the rest with prospects/league min guys) and get a top Dman. So the only way that will happen is giving up someone, and I think who that is depends greatly on what is available come day 1 of UFA, and how they believe the prospects are developing.
Either way, I don’t foresee Pavelski or Clowe as being viable tradebait. Centers are at a premium for a reason, and the Sharks were so dangerous down the stretch because of their ability to roll 3 lines that were all dangerous. You don’t gut the 3rd line (trading Pavelski) and then expect to play the same simply because you have 1 person that is better defensively than Murray. Similar thing with Clowe, he is what makes that 2nd line so potent. He draws defenders with his puck control and board play. The impact of the 2nd line is proportional to his health/contribution, as shown by its lack of oomph in the Vancouver series.
Only way we’re getting a #2 defenseman, in my opinion, is (1) moving Seto & Nitty, (2) moving Heatley, or (3) passing on White. Either way, we’re losing someone.
I agree with you on the No. 2 defenseman idea; I just don’t see it happening unless the Sharks make a big sacrifice. I don’t really want to see them give up someone like Clowe or Seto or Pavs. And for all the talk of this salary cap space, it really still feels quite like a pinch to me.
I just think that we’re probably going to have to come to terms with the idea that, unless we give up a big-time player from the current roster, we’re not acquiring a better defenseman this offseason than Ian White. So we’d better just re-sign him.
And hope that the real way in which our defense takes a step forward next season is through internal growth—from Braun, Demers, and even Vlasic.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
If Brooks Laich is still available come July 1st, we could hopefully sign him to center our 3rd line which would allow us to use Pavelski as tradebait for a number 2 defenseman.
God i hope Laich and Ward are both available come July 1st…my dream 3rd line would be Mitchell – Laich – Ward. It’d make for a brilliant checking line of strong defensive players with tons of offensive potential.
Laich
He’ll be asking for $3-4 mil a year so I don’t see how trading Pavs and then signing Laich will help – at all.
Laich’s cap hit won’t be over 4 mill, so he’d cost less than Pavelski, i’d guess 3.4 or 3.5 mill. So we’d make use of Pavelski’s value to acquire a young number 2 defenseman under 4 mil (examples: Marc Staal, Nicklas Hjalmarsson, possibly Brent Burns) and then sign Brooks Laich to center our 3rd line.
We’d be acquiring a young talented number 2 defenseman without losing very much. Laich is probably a more appropriate 3rd line center anyways.
Yeah, what’s that have to do with anything?
NY is looking for a top line center, and Sather would probably prefer a young talented guy like Pavs who can grow with the rest of their core group over Brad Richards anyways. Throw in Braun and maybe some picks and thats a pretty good package.
There are rumors about Chicago looking to move Hjalmarsson since they have 22 mill invested in their top 4 defensemen (the Sharks spend about 13 mill on their top 4), and since Hjalmarsson seemed to regress a bit this last season (Vlasic had a much worse sophomore slump). So they’d probably be willing to hear trade offers. I’d trade Seto for Hjalmarsson though, not pavelski.
I don’t really know about Minnesota and Brent Burns, that’s one that TCY brought up. I’m not sure if Brent Burns is the right guy to play with Boyle, but he’s a very good player that could work, and could end up being our future number 1 after Boyle’s gone.
I understand everyone wants to bring in a #2 d-man. A good, young, signed to more than 1 year guy is going to cost more than Pavs and those players, that would be worth trading Pavs for, really just aren’t available.
Pavs is one of the best 2nd line centers in the league on a great contract…I know we now have Couture coming in but you just don’t trade away a guy like Pavelski. Strength down the middle means almost as much as a good core of d-men.
Pavs is one of the best 2nd line centers in the league on a great contract…I know we now have Couture coming in but you just don’t trade away a guy like Pavelski. Strength down the middle means almost as much as a good core of d-men.
Exactly, which is why i think Pavs could get us that ideal number 2 defenseman. You can’t expect to trade for a great player without making some sacrifices.
You may think that’s “enough” but I seriously doubt the Rangers org. would. Teams just don’t trade their 24 year old #1 franchise d-men for a 2nd line center and a prospect +.
Actually, I can’t remember a young top 2 d-man ever being traded. I guess Erik Johnson might be the closest but he was traded for a player with top pairing upside who just turned 22 and a 23 year old 1st/2nd line winger and it was a horrible, horrible trade for Colorado!
Erik Johnson might be the closest but he was traded for a player with top pairing upside who just turned 22 and a 23 year old 1st/2nd line winger and it was a horrible, horrible trade for Colorado!
lol you keep making my points for me. Braun is also a young defenseman with a ton of upside, and Pavelski has far more value than Chris Stewart.
Pavelski is a legit center first of all, and centermen are much more valuable in this league than wingers atm. Pavelski’s also a 3-zone player (unlike Chris Stewart), he’s great in the faceoff circle, he can kill penalties, and he’s a playoff performer.
Pavelski is everything you could want in a 2nd line center, and i think he has the potential to play as a top line center.
So a Package of Pavelski and Braun is pretty much on pair with the package that got Colorado Louis Erikkson (a trade in which you and many others claim Colorado got ripped off in), so i don’t think it’s impossible to get a guy like Marc Staal for a package like that; maybe throw in some picks or a prospect who’s last name isn’t Coyle.
We apparantly have VERY different opinions of Braun, Pavelski, Stewart and Shattenkirk…guess I’ll just leave it at that.
And Erik Johnson and Marc Staal are also not the same d-man.
Maybe, but Pavelski certainly has more value than Stewart no matter what your opinions are.
Pavelski is one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Pavelski plays on the top PP unit, and the top PK unit on a team loaded with offensive talent. Stewart i think plays on the 2nd PP unit, and doesn’t PK at all.
Obviously Shattenkirk has more value than Braun since he’s now played a full season in the NHL, while Braun’s only played 28 games; but Braun has similar upside to Shattenkirk and he’s also much bigger than Shattenkirk, and height seems to be highly valued when it comes to defenseman.
Marc Staal definitely is a more valuable player than Johnson was at the time of the trade, but the trade wasn’t Johnson for Stewart and Shattenkirk straight up. The trade was Erik Johnson, Jay McClement, and a first round pick for Chris Stewart, Shattenkirk, and a 2nd round pick. Jay McClement is a cheap 3rd line checking center who’s a good defensive player and a good face-off guy (a poor mans Manny Malhotra).
I think if you take out Jay McClement, and the first round pick, and then swap out Johnson for Staal, and Stewart and Shattenkirk for Pavelski and Braun, it’s a very similar deal that could possibly get us a Marc Staal caliber player.
Obviously though, Sather could just go, " No we’re not trading Staal, bye!" and hangup; but still, i think it’s a package that could get us Marc Staal, or another number 2 defenseman.
I demand we resign white
Maybe move a forward to improve blue line depth. We need White and a #2 d-man.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Where would White play though? I could see him working well on our 3rd pairing playing Murray after we acquire a number 2 defenseman, but then what about Braun?
I’d like to see us make a trade for a really solid young (but proven) shutdown defenseman. We could use Seto + Braun or Pavs + Braun to get us a guy like that.
I wonder if we could get Marc Staal for Pavelski and Braun. I think the value is right but i don’t know if NY wants to trade Marc Staal no matter how much they’d like to acquire a talented young center like Pavelski.
Hjalmarsson would be a great trade target as well imo.
2nd pair with Vlassic.
Murray is not a top 4 guy, he should be on the 3rd pair with Demers/Braun.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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What about Demers then? I think DW and Mclellan want him and Vlasic to develop together on that 2nd line since White played with Wallin all season.
If we resign Ian White it means Braun doesn’t have a spot on the team this year, unless we keep Murray and Boyle together and White plays with Braun on the 3rd pairing, but neither of those scenarios sound very good to me.
I think we either keep White and Braun becomes tradebait, or we don’t resign White and Braun plays on our 3rd pairing next season.
As i mentioned above, i’d like to see Braun packaged with Seto or Pavelski in order to acquire a a seriously good young defenseman who would play with Boyle as our number 2 defenseman.
Re-signing White fills the one open spot we have, as:
Boyle, Murray, Vlasic, Braun and Demers are the only defensemen under contract next season. There’s room for both of them, but I don’t think their styles mesh with each other on a third pairing.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 5, 2011 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think their styles mesh with each other on a third pairing
Exactly, so where do we put White? Not together with Braun, that’d make for an odd pairing. Also that would mean that Murray would still be playing with Boyle.
IMO, we either find a number 2 defenseman and then play White alongside Murray on our 3rd pairing (that would be a hell of a 3rd pairing), or we don’t resign White at all because there’s just no place for him.
I think the first option is the best.
Boyle/#2 UFA
Demers/Vlasic
Murray/White
Depending on who the free agent is, that’s impressive.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 6, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
swap Demers and white, but yeah.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Ideally…
Boyle gets a better partner than Murray or Demers gets a better partner than Vlasic. Somehow, the Sharks absolutely HAVE to get Boyle away from the other teams tops lines, he’s just not that good defensively.
Boyle/new guy
Vlasic/Demers
Murray/White
Boyle/Murray
Demers/new guy
Vlasic/White
or, if they just keep White and give Braun the #6 spot he can play with White. He is, after all, supposed to be a very good defensive d-man, his offensive pop this year was sort of a pleasant surprise.
Wha?? Demers needs a better partner?? Vlasic is one of the best shutdown defenseman in the league. I think i’d actually prefer Vlasic played with White on the 2nd pairing than with Demers, but i can appreciate wanting 2 of our best young defenseman developing together.
Demers is close to Boyle defensively now and will continue to get better – I’d use Demers/new guy as the “shut down” pairing, playing them against other teams tops lines.
Demers/Vlasic are great, but seem to have issues against the bigger forwards, expecially Vlasic.
Whole point of “new guy” is to NOT have Dan Boyle playing against top competition.
Hjalmarsson's game is off right now
We could be buying high. Not a fan of the move just yet.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Vlasic and Hjalmarsson have vastly different pedigrees
Hjalmarsson had a career year and then fell off a cliff when Duncan Keith forgot how to play defense and all of Chicago’s D went into a blender.
Vlasic’s a seasoned veteran at this point.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Vlasic also had a great year in his first full season playing with the Sharks as Hjammer did with the Hawks, and expectations we’re really high for him. Then in his sophomore year he had a terrible season where his point total got cut in half and he went from a +13 to -12.
But yeah, Hjalmarsson’s slump was more due to Campbell getting injured, and other issues with the team. I think it’s a safe bet that Hjalmarsson will only get better though. I think he’d be a great partner for Boyle, and a great number 2 defenseman on our team for years to come if we were to trade for him.
I think a package
of Seto, Mitchell, Braun + mid-round pick would be sweet enough to land a solid #2 defenseman.
Seto-Mitchell has been a possible trade package for a few seasons now, but haven’t had the production to bring back too much in return, but adding an up-and-comer like Braun (who is expendable to our roster) to the package puts it over the top, IMO.
I’m looking at Tobias Enstrom from the Thrashers/Winnepeg. He played 23mins/g and had 51 pts. With Byfugliens’ cap hit increasing to 5.2mil next year, Hainsey under contract for the next 3 years, and the raise they’re going to have to give Bogosian, it makes sense for them to unload him for some speed up front and a defenseman prospect.
I disagree
I really think that Mitchells speed is essential for our team to keep, and Seto + Braun would be more than enough to land a solid #2 Dman. Heck, we nearly (I wish) landed Goligoski for Seto alone.
What are the chances we land Christian Ehrhoff again? I still think it was an enormous mistake by DW letting him go, and for nothing in return as well.
What good is Mitchell's speed
if he can’t do anything with it? I love Mitchell’s heart, but he just doesn’t have the hands/shot to complement his great speed. He’s had his chance here, I’d rather give his spot to Ferriero.
Mitchell kills penalties
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Agreed.
And skills can be learned. Speed cannot.
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I still dont like Ehrhoff
and he’s not the shutdown guy we need.
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Second that.
Ehrhoff has increased production in Vancouver, but has essentially done so in exact pace with his added ice time. And his accuracy number for this year compared to his last year on the Sharks actually went down. He’s not an awful defenseman, but he’s not the part we need.
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I think as much as I don’t want to admit it, Braun will be used to bring someone in. But I think Seto and Mitchell leaving would be a mistake. Our team lacks a lot of speed as it is- that would only leave Marleau as a forward with speed. No one else has that. I like Torrey- he’s not a top 6 forward and isn’t paid to be one. I also don’t think DW expects him to be a Marleau or a Thornton. He’s a 3rd liner who brings speed AND grit to the 3rd line. As long as we aren’t overpaying him, I don’t see an issue with him staying.
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Heater
TRADE HEATER, or put him on waivers pay for half and that way u save 4 mill min gets u both ian and seto and an additional 4 million that we could put for a number 2 def. We do not pay 7.5 million for a third line/ second line player….
No one would pick up his contract, and he has a no movement clause as well. As great as it would be clearing his cap space, it doesn’t seem too likely that Heater would be moved.
right
But if we threaten to put him in minors he would accept a trade. and if he doesnt we could send him to minors, pay him his 7.5 million but have non of it affect the cap. So it would free up an additional 7 million and we would be able to bring him up in case of injury. (this is a worst case scenario and i see this happening all star break) that way we could also bring him back during the playoffs when there is no max cap
You're equivocating.
No Trade Clause means they have the right to void any trade. You can then ship them down to the minors, but they can’t be traded.
No Move Clause means they have the right to void ANYTHING. So if you want to send them to another team, they have to say okay. If you want to send them to the minors, they have to say okay. About the only thing you can do is bench them.
But, anyhow, I don’t think it’s going to matter. I’ve got a feeling Heatley’s going to have a good year and then everyone is going to shuffle their feet sheepishly and pretend they weren’t on the SEND HIS ASS BACK bandwagon.
It's a douche move, too.
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The only thing the Sharks as an organization can do without Heater’s permission is to scratch him. We can’t trade him, we can’t waive him, we can re-assign him.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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that applies until 2014…
God i hope the poor season he had this year was just a fluke, and not the beginning of his decline.
Broken hand and sprained ankle
What’s Marleau’s excuse?
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
That’s just Heatley’s excuse for the playoffs though. What about his poor regular season?
Marleau had 13 points in the playoffs, which isn’t bad for a guy who went through such a bad point scoring slump. Those slumps can’t keep happening though.
4th on the team in points
He was bounced throughout the lineup and still managed to be up there. No question it was below what was expected, but with all the turmoil in the lineup, it can be expected. He is just one season removed from a pretty good run in ’09, and we know injuries have been a factor.
Make no mistake, I’m concerned, but considering the strides he made on defense, combined with his chemistry with Cloweture, I’m not very worried that he’s about to fall off a cliff, or that we need to trade him.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I’m not that worried about him either really, i’d say i’m just a little frustrated with him. I was just using him as a comparison for Marleau.
Marleau was our top goal scorer, and our top point scorer this season. So it’s hard to hate on him too much. He just need to be more consistent in the playoffs.
He just need to be more consistent in the playoffs.
That right there though, makes it very easy to hate on him.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Again, there seems to be a nagging groin problem from the 09-10 season that is probably affecting Dany’s skating and hence, affecting his shot. How many one-timers (what Heater specializes in) did he score this season? Maybe 2? I really believe this is the problem and I think it’s obviously an injury that 3 summer months doesn’t fix. He can play on it- he is just not 100%.
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He’s changed his role though. While he does display that one timer, a lot of his goals come from the front of the net. He’s actually almost as big as Thornton.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Just for the record, broken hand happened 1/2 way through the regular season.
In that first half (or somewhere around there) I’m pretty sure Heater was leading the team in points.
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Haha, you just hate that guy.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Not gonna lie
He tops my shit list, a list that Wallin and Huskins don’t even qualify for. Unless he puts together a Conn Smythe run, I’ll officially never root for him again. A friend of mine who literally gave up on the Sharks, largely because of Marleau, said Patty was the Barry Zito of the Sharks. I kinda concur.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I understand you don't like Marleau,
but you don’t have to shit on him. Zito and Marleau is an awful comparison.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
I know
It’s just hilarious
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
But deep inside
I knew you meant 2002 American League Cy Young winner Barry Zito.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
What's a Cy Young?
Do you get that by being able to take faceoffs and not get beat in your own zone? :P
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
That’s cold. ;-)
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
Yeah, why are you slamming Zito?
;-)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
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This would actually piss me off, but two reasons they don’t:
1) You like Nabokov.
2) You’re probably a bit crazy.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I'm more than a BIT crazy
But I understand your feelings. I’ve defended Nabby more than once on this board, so please do stick up for Marleau.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I have been roasted
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Marleau has been the heart of the team for ages.
Nabokov has no class. I’m surprised he ever did those handshake lines.
And he did a lot of those.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 7, 2011 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
This statement amuses me greatly
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I'm a master at that
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
A master of bait.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 8, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
A bad year, but...
He was still the team’s #4 scorer, ahead of Clowe and Couture. He had a bad year with a broken hand. Amazing how people jump all over people.
See what he does next year, then decide.
Two seasons with the Sharks, two seasons he was snakebit in the playoffs with an injury. Whether it’s his fault or not is immaterial. I don’t think Heatley is dragging the team down, but he certainly seems overpaid.
Sure. But by how much? The regular season before he was the 3rd highest scorer, 2 points behind Patty. Patty makes 7.2 or something, right? So what’s Heater worth?6.5? 7? And here people are talking about cutting him or trading him at a huge loss?
Silly. You do that if he has a long term issue (ie, career ending injury). Just not the case.
Give the man a chance
Patty makes 6.9 and Heater makes 7.5. NOT worth that cap hit, but he has had two injury ridden years and still put up decent numbers (1.0 PPG last year and this year he had a broken hand and still put up .80). I want to see any player play with a broken hand and still produce any better than that! His playoff performance was really the same story, with lower body injuries on a guy that already isn’t the most prolific skater. I really don’t think we have reason to worry about him, when healthy he’s an elite player in this league.
Except the problem is this, the team is so close to the cup that anything not pulling their expected weight is of course identified and criticized. If the Sharks had 25 mil in cap space, to easily be able to acquire the last piece missing, no one would have a problem with Heatley or his cap hit.
The problem becomes when someone is underperforming, and their cap is restricting possible team upgrades. You say give him a chance, but that chance then becomes viewed as a gamble, because if he lives up to expectations then its all good but if he fails and the team then fails too, its all on him “oh if it wasn’t for him we coulda got someone good and we would won”.
All that said, I still think Heatley is a good part of the team, and I think he’ll rebound the next season. A broken hand is a large thing to work around.
Yeah, i gotta say i was pretty impressed with the strides Heatley made defensively this season. He was an absolute liability on defense last year, and in the playoffs he was hurting much more than he was helping imo. This year that wasn’t the case, although he wasn’t helping very much either, but i suppose you can attribute that to playing with a broken hand.
I’m looking forward to him having the best year he’s had in teal next year, and please god i hope he comes into the playoffs healthy for once.
Agreed. I think that’s been lost on a lot of people. They have noticed the difference in Big Joe, but you have to see that his leadership had an effect on everyone including Heater.
Hopefully, in year two of “trying to be all round players” they will both figure out a way to do it without sacrificing quite as much offense.
I wasn’t talking about regular season. The way the Sharks have performed over the past couple years, you could shelf any of their top four forwards and they’d still get to the playoffs. $7,500,000.00 is a lot of cap hit for somebody that’s easy to characterize as defensively lazy, shy about hitting fools, and not producing goals. That’s playoff-game difference-maker money, and what we’ve been getting is very good third-liner performance instead.
So to answer your question, I think Heatley’s worth about as much as Clowe these days, roughly half what he’s currently paid. Heater’s way better in the regular season, when I don’t care, and Clowe’s been much better in the post-season but not super-star quality. Of course, a contract is a contract, so the Sharks keep him and pay him and we encourage him to improve next time around. May he score twenty goals next postseason and make me look stupid in hindsight.
this stat is to be completely objected
because I don’t have a solid opinion about what we should do with heater. Dany Heatley has 5G in 32 playoff GP with the sharks, 15G in 66GP career.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 4, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
objective*
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 4, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I also think there’s more to the story than a broken hand and the sprain. I think his decreased production has more to due with his groin injury from LAST playoff season. I’m just throwing it out there.
Heatley isn’t going anywhere. This sounds just like the “Trade Marleau” comments that were viral the past few seasons. Heater had one low producing season (so did Marleau). I know it sucks to pay $8 mil to a guy that only gave you 26 goals but I really have a feeling there’s more to it than is being made public and I think he will bounce back.
Just my opinion though. I know a lot of people disagree with me.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
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Find me on Twitter @njahoda
Saving $4M by waiving Heatley
Is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Heater is the anchor of this team.
That is, if it’s attached to a rope, and it’s noosed around your neck.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jun 4, 2011 2:58 PM PDT reply actions
Hey Plank,
I’m worried about being able to retain Logan Couture after next season if we sign a top defenseman to more than one year. Should I be worried? Obviously Doug Wilson knows his numbers far better than any of us here (myself especially), but Logan will probably (definitely?) command over $3 million when he reaches RFA status in 13 months. How badly would the money we invest in a quality d-man take away from our ability to retain #39? Of course there a gazillion variables at play, but any extra insight you have would be awesome.
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
*there are a gazillion
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
Could you buy out Heatley's contract to make room for Couture?
Or would that just wind up being another Alexei Yashin situation?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Heatley is not going anywhere unless he agrees to a trade
Let’s move on
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I don’t think we should be too worried about that atm. Bottom line is that we will find a way to keep Logan, he’s the future of this team. For now though, i think we should do what we have to in order to win the cup.
Anyways, there are tons of moves than can be made to free up cap space for Couture. (Boyle’s NTC disappears next offseason, so that’s an option as well if we’re desperate for cap space.)
Wilson is also very good at the “bridge” contract, he’s done that with Pavs, Clowe and Seto recently. A 2 year cheaper contract before the 4 year $$ contract. With the CBA expiring soon I really can’t see the Sharks signing anyone to anything long term, that might include Couture.
Of course, if he improves on his rookie season DW might not have a choice.
Any chance the sharks go after Roman/Hannan/Bieksa/Erhoff/Montador? Would a top 4 dmen be a good move in the offseason?
by Derek Zona's biggest fan on Jun 4, 2011 4:19 PM PDT reply actions
No on Roman, Montador.
Neither Error nor Hannan’s gonna want to come back to this organization, though I’d take either.
Bieksa would be a helluva pick-up, but I don’t see the Sharks being able to land him, plus, I feel like this post-season was a bit of an anomaly for him and some team will over-pay him this offseason and regret it in 2 years.
not to mention
i even hate bieksas face.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 4, 2011 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I hate Bieksa's everything.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
His existance is bullllllll
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
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I say the sharks change nothing and bring back the exact same team (minus huskins). Then entertain a trade near the deadline for a dmen and forward depth
by Derek Zona's biggest fan on Jun 4, 2011 4:31 PM PDT reply actions
The Amazing Kreskin Knows All!
Goal—Niemi and either Niittymaki or Stalock as a 25-30 game backup. Give Niittymaki the option to be traded (for reasons explained above) and happily keep him if he says no. If he takes the opportunity, Stalock up for those 25-30 games.
Forwards—Re-sign Setoguchi, Ferriero, Desjardins, and McGinn. Restructure the third (or fourth, semantics really) line to be all about speed. They don’t need to score a ton, they just need to get it in, get it deep, and get it on net. Odds are the goalie will stop it and there’ll be a faceoff, that’ll allow them to put in the bigger guys on the top two lines. The problem I saw this post-season was that the top two lines were stymied trying to get into the zone and set up shop at the same time. They did much better when they won a faceoff and didn’t have to worry about getting in, since they were already there.
Defense—Re-sign White, bring up Braun. Vlasic’s becoming a top 2 in his own right, and Demers showed remarkable improvement and maturity. Braun impressed me when he was on the ice, dude has a freaking cannon. He’ll need to learn the way Demers did, which is to say he’ll need to learn first hand after making a lot of mistakes early on. Boyle, Braun, Demers, Murray, Vlasic, and White is a potent set. It might be gambling a little bit on Braun, but I think the risk is worth it.
You might try trading Nittymaki to Long Island’s revolving door of goalies.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 6, 2011 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
What about
bringing back Scott Hannan? He is still fairly young but has much experience. If we got him and re-signed White, we would have three top shelf D-men to more evenly split time on ice. I can tell that Boyle is often overplayed because TMac is forced to do so as a result of having less defensive firepower to work with than many other teams.
Scott Hannan is a great idea because he is already familiar with the team and some key players. He also seems to be well into his prime. He can also take those extra minutes off Boyle’s load so our D doesn’t get worn out so fast.
Hannan
Is just another Murray. He has no scoring pop, which is what we need in a #2 d-man.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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The Capitals traded for Hannan to bulk up their defense...
THE CAPITALS! The one “top” team in the league that definitely has a worse defense than the Sharks do. No offense to him, but he’s no longer worth it. And he’s definitely not a top 2 guy. I’d rather have Braun than Hannan.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
Capitals aren't a good team.
They play in an easy division.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Hence the quotation marks. And I’d say they’re a decent team, but “easy” is relative. The Canes and Lighting aren’t terrible. And then you could say that the Canucks aren’t a good team, because they play in an easy division.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
The Canucks aren't a good team.
Their best players are the refs and arena equipment.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions
In terms of this summer's free agents...
Keep:
Setoguchi (if the price is right)
Ferreiro
Desjardins
Wellwood
White
Mayers (maybe)
Get rid of:
McGinn
Wallin
Huskins
Nichol
Eager
Know what our defense needs?
JEFF FINGER.
But no, seriously, we need speed and someone else who can hit like Murray. Petrecki and Braun fit the Sharks puzzle fairly well from within the system… Hopefully they’re ready out of camp. If not, see about snagging Adam Pardy from Calgary (because there’s some upside there that’ll never blossom in Calgary) for cheap. Eric Brewer could provide some veteranshipness. White will benefit enormously from a full year with the Sharks; a powerplay quarterback role will have time to develop.
In terms of forwards… Honestly, I’m not sure I want an unhealthy Heatley back. It’s clear that he’s been injured since 2010’s playoffs. I’d rather see him traded for some cheap young talent and a few high draft picks if he can’t produce.
In terms of goal, I’m rather anxious to see some talent develop from within the Sharks organization. We’ve seen some stellar ‘tending from Sharks products in the past, and I don’t trust Niemi’s streaky nature to carry the team for three more years.
Thoughts? Comments? Death threats? Go Sharks, Go Jets. :P
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
As a side note: Expect Winnipeg to snag most of this year's top UFA's.
You don’t sell 13,000 season tickets and ice the Atlanta Thrashers. You build a contender.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 4, 2011 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Excellent point
But can they afford it?
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey. Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
Shameless plug for my music.
Exactly.
They’ve said they are going to spend similarly to Nashville, and I don’t think many players are drawn to that region. Someone raised this point recently and it stuck with me: If Edmonton, with a legacy of 5 Stanley Cups, has trouble attracting players, how will the ’Peg do any better?
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 5, 2011 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't understand this bullshit argument of location.
If I were being paid MILLIONS, I’d play in Antarctica. The Edmonton situation is less about the city itself than the team’s payroll and talent, specifically, how the team had most of their budget locked up in players that couldn’t produce, and as Evgeni Nabokov so disgracefully showed, spoiled rich people refuse to play on a losing team.
You also have to remember that hockey players primarily come from cold climates with horrible weather. Might be hard to understand for Californians, but Canadians love Canadian weather.
In regards to the Nashville comment… Here’s hoping Winnipeg gets their own Dave Poile and Barry Trotz! Nashville is going to win the cup one of these years playing like they are, mark my words.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
But what if you had to pick between being paid millions in Antarctica, and millions in New York? Chances are, the big splash guys are going to be getting multiple offers. There’s going to be a lot of overspending to make that happen, and that leaves some weak areas on the lower lines.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
... Personally, I'd go with Antarctica.
Probably got better healthcare.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Haha
I doubt it.
The thing is, there’s $23 mil to play with in cap space. That’s freakin’ ridiculous. But that’s going to be used to fill in about 10 people. And we’re talking about Andrew Ladd and Blake Wheeler being amongst those.
There’s definitely a lot of work to be done for the Not-Jets. Frankly, it’s just going to be hard to draw in players. Of course they’re going to be more dedicated to win than that Thrashers, but that a given for nearly every other team.
I’m biased against Winnipeg of course. I hope they suck (12th in the East?) for a long time lol. But it’s a team that’s not exactly built to win right now. And the pieces that are there are going to be tough to move. A lot of contracts end next season. That’s when they’ll be able to make more of a move, if they play it right this season. Which I hope they don’t :)
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
I think Brad Richards ends up in the 'Peg.
And Teemu Selane.
And keep in mind, Atlan- er, Winnipeg is still a good team. They were amazing before the All-Star break, then something happened. It could very well have been lost morale due to rumblings about a possible move. In the end, though, we do have proof that this isn’t a garbage team.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Definitely
The team sort of had the opposite season of the Sharks. Great 1st half, and then things turned sour in January.
Lost morale isn’t the case, IMO. Up until the Yotes lost, the talk was really just True North buying them and moving them back. This Atlanta move pretty much happened in a matter of a month (which makes it suck worse). They just seemed to hit a wall, and decided the best thing to do was keep running into it.
I’m just not sure they’re going to be able to build a “contender” this season. Or ever. I’d actually expect Richards to land up in Toronto, because apparently he really wants to play there. But overspending this summer is going to be a big mistake. If they don’t play it right, that’s what they’ll end up doing… because the holes on that roster are still significant.
At least they play in the East, where the Blue Jackets would “contend”.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
Richards in Toronto?
I should see about dumpster diving for some Kessel and Pheneuf jerseys if that happens.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
That was the rumor wasn’t it? That he was going to be traded thee.
Until Dallas decided to keep him and still miss the playoffs?
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
Not sure.
That was around exam prep season. I wasn’t paying attention.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions
New York, Philly, and Toronto always receive speculation about any big name UFAs even if they have no reason to go after them.
by BruinsSelectSeguin on Jun 6, 2011 11:55 PM PDT up reply actions
You have a point, for sure.
They’ll probably be able to attract more free agents than the California teams because they are in Canada, but I think they are going to have the most trouble of the Canadian teams.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jun 6, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You also have to remember that hockey players primarily come from cold climates with horrible weather. Might be hard to understand for Californians, but Canadians love Canadian weather.
Chris Pronger.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
by ElvisVF101 on Jun 6, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Chris Pronger’s wife.
FIFY
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
In regards to the Nashville comment… Here’s hoping Winnipeg gets their own Dave Poile and Barry Trotz! Nashville is going to win the cup one of these years playing like they are, mark my words.
Not unless they are suddenly able to spend to the cap. Nashville has discipline and heart. But they simply lack talent. Against Vancouver, they needed Mike Fisher to match up against Kesler, and it was a very valiant effort, but Vancouver was simply to deep. That’s a function of the disparity in payroll.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I don't expect them to blow their cap and overpay players.
This isn’t Toronto we’re talking about here.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I doubt it. There are going to be some significant losses now that they’ve fired Dudley. They are in the East, which helps, but I’m hoping that they will continue to suck.
And there’s the factor that it’s Winnipeg. I mean, yes, there are plenty of benefits: it’s growing, major city, etc etc etc. But, ultimately, the player have to live there.. and there seems to be a large number of players who actually voiced their displeasure at that idea.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
True North has deep pockets
But until revenue starts coming on a reliable basis, I wouldn’t expect big splashes. If they DO start overspending now, it’ll just hasten their relocation.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Why get ride of McGinn?
He has great potential to be a great player, just give it time, he just didn’t get that much ice time this last season, I can see him being a staple to the 4th next year.
Winnipeg is worse. Colder. Further from anywhere nice (like Calgary). Stuck in the middle of the muskeg. Unclear they will spend to the cap.
I think they will have problems.
Winnipeg is beautiful. You know nothing about Canada.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 5, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Beg to differ. Lived there for 35 years. Still own a cottage in the Muskoka’s and spend 4-5 weeks a year there.
Winnipeg can be a nice town, but it is cold and isolated, with not a lot of interesting geography around it.
by psantangeli on Jun 6, 2011 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still better than Toronto.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 6, 2011 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
With all due respect
Comparing Winnipeg to Toronto is like comparing Albaquerque to San Francisco. While plenty of people hate San Francisco just like you apparently hate Toronto, 90% of the population would probably rather live in those cities over the Peg and AQ.
(I’ve been to both Winnipeg – first place I ever went in Canada – and Toronto, as well as Albaquerque and San Francisco, so these aren’t imaginary comparisons for me)
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
Toronto is literally the worst place to live in Canada,
Except maybe Greater Vancouver.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 7, 2011 6:31 AM PDT up reply actions
But apparently Winnipeg has these for seasons:
almost winter, winter, still winter, road construction.
That sound’s pretty bad. Especially considering the lack of Russians and parks. KHL>Winnipeg.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 7, 2011 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Pot: “Hey, Kettle?”
Kettle: “Yes, Pot?”
Pot: “You’re black.”
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
by Mr. K. on Jun 8, 2011 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
about Heater
He actually produced more this postseason than last. According to his stats, he both scored and contributed to scoring more often. He is also helping distribute the offense because we have other players who are developing into big name snipers like him (Patty, Jumbo, Pav, Clowe, Seto, Couture). Aside from that, there can be something else he brings to the locker room; his mental game. He knows what it takes to win the Cup, having been to the Cup Finals before. I believe he is great for the team, but the only drawback is his salary which makes it a little harder to bring in a top shelf D-man.
I'd like to see a top 2 D-man come in
But I highly doubt it’s going to happen. After all, we’re talking about DW here. He’s a cautious guy, for better or for worse. He’s definitely not going to overspend on any UFAs.
I wouldn’t mind venturing out on offer sheeting Zach Bogosian though. He’s definitely a project, but his development was completely screwed up by the incompetent Thrashers brass. But he definitely has upside.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
And as much a I love the guy, I’d be willing to part with Murray if we were able to bring in another physical guy. But he’s a bit slow, and surprisingly already 31. And he’s a piece who’s actually tradeable.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
The tail of two teams
Based on your Cap Space article Plank, it seems to me that we should feel good that San Jose is in position to be a top level team next season. We should expect another great regular season and a nice top 4 finish in the Western Conference. Perhaps even a trip back to the WCF’s is in the offing? Great! I’m happy that this team is one of the best year in and year out. The organization (Canadian twang) is top notch and the class of the NHL.
That said, we’re also the team that can never get over the hump. We’re the great regular season team and the playoff flame outs. We’re a collective 1 – 8 over the past two seasons in the WCF. Therefore, without a top D-man to help out on the PP, we’re in the same boat as the past 2 or 3 seasons: Great regular season, and another playoff dissapointment for the fan base.
Not good enough for me. We have a 3 year window to win the cup with Marleau, Thornton, Niemi and Boyle. We have enough $$$ to re-sign the guys that helped us get to the WCF, but not enough to finish the job. I’m not content anymore being good each year, but coming up short. So here’s the problem…
We have a $7.5 million dollar a year albatross hanging around our neck that will prevent us from obtaining a markee guy that can be the difference maker. And what about Couture? He’s going to want big $$$ after next season. Perhaps we cannot move Heater, but to not try is giving up on the season before it even starts. He has proven that he is not a difference maker and will not get us a Stanley Cup. That money s/b used and spread out among a group of complementary players that can get us what we want and deserve, a Stanley Cup. But as long as the team stays the same, the results will not change.
The injury bug hit us hard this year in the playoffs, way harder then last year.
Heatly was the only one who was really heavily injured vs the hawks, but this year our all our core players had insane injures. I would love to find out what injures the Nucks guys had during the WCF, the twins seems to be 100% healthy imo..
Very well said...
Presuming the Canucks go on to win the Cup, none one of the past four Cup winners had a single winger making more than 4 million dollars a year at the time of their victory. The one winger that did get a big payday after the victory was Patrick Kane, a move which contributed to the need for the great Chicago free agent exodus and helped drop the Hawks from a great team to just a good team.
Its time the Sharks awoke to the recipe for success in the NHL: you spend top dollar on top centers and top defensemen.
If at all possible we must find some way to rid ourselves of Heatley’s contract (which is rapidly becoming one of the worst in the league). I know its going to be very difficult, but it will continue to handcuff this team in terms of the roster improvements that will get us over “the hump”.
Meanwhile the clock ticks on Big Joe, Patty and Boyler’s primes.
The one winger that did get a big payday after the victory was Patrick Kane, a move which contributed to the need for the great Chicago free agent exodus and helped drop the Hawks from a great team to just a good team.
Chicago’s capocalypse had many roots. Chief among them is Brian Campbell’s contract, followed closely by the QO debacle. Toss in Hjalmarsson’s contract, and Kane’s contract is a move of much less significance.
Heatley’s contract is no better or worse than any of the other 4 $6M+ numbers on the team. All of the criticisms people seem to want to lay at Heatley’s skates can just as easily be applied to Marleau and Boyle, both of whom seem to get a major pass in these parts. About the only one of the money players who can be considered blame free is Thornton, who truly took the captaincy and made something of it. Boyle might get a pass because he’s asked to play such ridiculous minutes, which is entirely unnecessary. And between Marleau and Heatley, I think Heatley has shown himself over the past season to be less of a defensive liability than Marleau.
At the end of the day though, none of these four are going anywhere. Dreaming about a #2 D-man is pretty useless, so all we can do is expect these four to play to their contract, and look for continued contributions from the future core of the team: Pavelski, Couture, Clowe, Setoguchi, Vlasic, Demers, White and Braun. That’s how you get over the hump.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
“At the end of the day though, none of these four are going anywhere. Dreaming about a #2 D-man is pretty useless, so all we can do is expect these four to play to their contract, and look for continued contributions from the future core of the team: Pavelski, Couture, Clowe, Setoguchi, Vlasic, Demers, White and Braun. That’s how you get over the hump”.
Ok, I don’t know how to quote stuff but this is how I feel about it as well. I do think they’ll be able to get another top 4 d-man if the Sharks decide they want one (either UFA or trade) and I do think they’ll pick up a good PK forward but really, this core is what’s going to win the Sharks a cup…or at least get to the finals.
Respectfully disagree
“Defense wins championships”, while a trite cliche, is still true. Personally I’m afraid that without another quality shutdown guy on the back end this team will not get over that hump.
Can DW work a magic trick with one hand firmly secured behind his back by the Heatley contract? Possibly. Would we many more options and a better team if we found a way to dump him? Yes.
I don't disagree that we need a #2
I’m just saying that the roster moves that are realistic would probably gut the team to the extent that acquiring a #2 would be one step forward two steps back.
My other point is that it’s note MERELY the Heatley contract that handcuffs us. It’s a combination of the entire Canadian Olympic contingent. Why we have chosen to single Heatley out is silly to me when I think there’s more than enough blame to go around all four of them, as well as enough realistic expectation (other than my own personal pessimism and anger about Marleau) to expect these four to perform better.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Good point
Those three are indeed all overpaid (especially when you look at the ridiculous steal that the Ducks get for their all star line, for example). At least in Marleau’s case he can take faceoffs and kill penalties, despite his propensity for disappearing for extended periods. Heatley’s is just the worst of the three for what he brings to the table.
At least I can look forward to the Wallin contract coming off the books.
Presuming the Canucks go on to win the Cup, none one of the past four Cup winners had a single winger making more than 4 million dollars a year at the time of their victory.
That’s really more luck/good timing than anything. Alot of the big name players on those Cup winning teams were unproven youngsters who hadn’t yet ever put up the numbers to deserve a large lucrative contract, and the ones that HAD were still playing on their entry-level deals.
I would say thats only really true of the Hawks
But even so, thats the whole point. Goal scoring wingers are often flash in the pan, inconsistent and unreliable. This is why this model has emerged in the NHL. Under a hard cap system it is simply not worth it to throw huge dollars at a player that only does one thing unless he does that one thing with incredible consistency.
Look at the elite teams in the league over the last few years:
Red Wings: Two highest paid players = centers. Highest paid winger makes 4mil
Penguins: Three highest paid players = centers. Highest paid winger makes 3.7mil
Boston Bruins: Highest paid player = center. Highest paid winger makes 4mil
Philadelphia Flyers: Three highest paid players = centers. Highest paid winger makes 4.2mil
Exceptions:
Hawks (didn’t overpay wingers until after they won the cup, now their overpaid winger is Patrick Kane, who btw had 28 points in 22 games during their cup run and still makes a million less than Heatley).
Canucks (overpaid winger is Daniel Sedin, whose salary they’re forced to match with Henrik’s, and oh btw was in the discussion for MVP this year and still makes a million less than Heatley)
Caps (overpaid winger is Ovechkin, and we’ve seen how well things have worked out for them when the playoffs roll around)
Luck affects particular games a ton, but luck averages out over time. Saying those cup victories are luck is letting our team off the hook for allowing this horrible contract to hinder the greatest chance for success in franchise history.
Like it or not this is the recipe for success in today’s NHL.
Of the wingers you mention though
Kane and Ovechkin can legitimately take over games. And you’re entirely correct as to Daniel going as Henrik goes. So there is room for players of very high skill to command large contracts and for the team to still have success.
There’s no question Heatley’s large contract puts a lot of pressure on the team, but it’s far from the poison pill I believe you are making it out to be.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I personally think the Ovechkin and Semin contracts are really hurting the Caps. Every winger goes through periods when their scoring slumps, even players as gifted as Ovechkin. The problem is how they contribute during that slump. A center can make a big difference on the defensive end when he’s not scoring. A winger, while it helps if they’re are solid in their own end, simply doesn’t get the opportunity to contribute defensively as much as a center because of the position.
I’m just saying in a hard cap league bang-for-buck is everything, and with Heatley you get only medium bang for a whole ton of bucks.
Jason Demers – high ankle sprain
Scott Nichol – laceration above the knee
Dany Heatley – broken hand, high ankle injury
Ryane Clowe – shoulder separation
Dan Boyle – damaged MCL
Logan Couture – broken nose
Joe Pavelski – ankle injury
Joe Thornton – broken pinkie, wrist problem, shoulder separation
I dont really count Logans injury but he played amazing every series so… But man Dany with a broken hand and ankle injury? Pavs anle too, Joe freaking got his Pinky cut off, and shoulder seperated, plus his wrist?!?!? And he still was a P per game player…
Its pretty easy to see why we didn’t make it to the SCF this year.
How about we stop using injuries as an excuse?
All of the Sharks felt good enough to play in the games (besides Demers)…They are professionals with professional sports performance doctors.. If they were going to be a liability on the ice, then they shouldn’t have been playing in the first place (shame on the organization for letting/making them play if this was the case)… Fact of the matter is that the Canucks are undoubtedly hurt too and their players weren’t even dressing (Ehrhoff, Rome)… So let’s stop using the injury excuse..
by kiwi93 on Jun 6, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ehrhoff sucks and Rome is not important.
Their main core looked intact. Unlike ours.
Ehrhoff was only the second leading defensman in points up to our series, but apparently he sucks… I can agree with Rome being unimportant because Ballard replaced him. You think Kesler is playing 100% right now? Hamhuis was almost out for good. Malhotra was hurt before returning to this series. There is rumor of Raymond being hurt. Samuelsson was out. I’m just saying that injuries happen and we can’t point our finger at it. Sure the Sedins seemed fine, but so was Marleau and pretty much Thornton for the majority of the series.
It’s not an excuse, it’s just a fact. The NHL playoffs are a war of attrition. Just like bounces can go your way or your competitions, so can injuries.
It's blurry
The team that is best able to combat injuries will win. It’s simply a reality that both the Sharks and the Canucks had key injuries, but the Canucks were better able to overcome those injuries. Whether that’s because the Sharks were more injured is irrelevant. You must win the games you play, and Vancouver did just that.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I think DW also had a valid point in saying that one reason they lost was that they were playing “playoff” hockey from January because of the slow start. That’s going to make your injury situation worse. So, the injuries are the effect, the slow start (and luck) is one of the causes. Doesn’t make the injuries an excuse, but they are one of the reasons.
Unless you have a problem with your training staff, it’s hard to “blame” a team for the effect injuries.
One thing that the sharks should look at is the way that Van has been taking a scientific approach to dealing with travel and sleep problems. There was a really good hockey night in canada “inside hockey” special on it in the first part of last year.
If...
We had beaten Detroit in 5 games like we should have (being up 3-1) we would not have suffered as many injuries as games 6 & 7 vs Detroit really took their toll on the Sharks. It’s our own damn falt and because the defensive unit was not good enough, we ended up getting boat raced by Vancouver.
Why do Sharks fans think this team is good enough to win a cup? THEY ARE NOT! Adding a piece here or there hasn’t worked. This team is TOO TOP HEAVY and until that changes, the cup will remain illusive.
Why do Sharks fans think this team is good enough to win a cup? THEY ARE NOT!
I disagree. Unless you count the 3rd line as “top”, the team is not top heavy. Defense has always been lacking for this team. It’s the main reason why this team hasn’t won the Cup. And frankly, blowing up the younger core of this team isn’t smart.
Winning a Cup would be great, definitely. But it’s much better to build like the Red Wings than like the Blackhawks.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
by Bockerz on Jun 7, 2011 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Franchise or #2
Are we looking at acquiring a franchise or a #2 defenseman? A lot of the names being thrown around are cornerstone defensemen that we would have to give up a tremendous amount for.
Here are my thoughts.
We need to get a strong stay-at-home defenseman to play with Boyle and eat minutes on the PK. Boyle had the second highest shorthanded TOI on the team (1 second behind Vlasic). We need someone who will block shots and is not going to give the puck away making stupid decisions. We don’t need another offensive defenseman. If we resign White, we will have an offensively gifted d-man on each pairing.We have a good number of defensive prospects who will, hopefully, come into their own in the next 2-3 years.
I think we can get someone who can bridge the gap between now and the future, but also contribute to getting us over the hump.
I submit that Jan Hjeda would make great sense as an FA. Don’t believe me? Just look at what Plank and Matthew_Taylor said about him at the 09-10 deadline when we had the same defensive corp. http://www.fearthefin.com/2010/2/9/1303612/trade-targets-jan-hejda-cbj
Oh and by the way, he just finished a 2 million per year contract and is not considered on of the top FA d-men. We maybe able to get him for as low as 2.5 per year
Bleed Teal... Right Now I am puking it - Shadrack (1/14/11)
Yeah,
Hjeda would be an upgrade even for the same price as Wallin. But with Detroit looking for some Defensemen, I wouldnt be suprised if the market on Defense UFAs perks up some…
by sharkblood99 on Jun 6, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Sopel and Vandermmer are in the 2.2M range
by will_hunter23 on Jun 6, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Sign Setto to a 3 Mill deal…Sign a D man to a 2.5-3M deal. 4 Mil in cap space to put a 4th line together. (Sorry for replying to my own post)
by will_hunter23 on Jun 6, 2011 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
No one wants Wallin and Huskins back? Ungrateful souls.
DW will resign at least one of them to $2.5M contract, just to piss off FTF crowd.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
You won’t be laughing when you hear the news.
Fear the Fin - where Russians are underappreciated.
by Ivano M on Jun 6, 2011 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I like the two guys
But that money needs to be spent elsewhere. I’d be pretty bummed if they got a contract like that.
I know
i wouldn’t be happy. Those guys just don’t cut it. I wonder what type ($) of contract they will be offered from other teams.
by will_hunter23 on Jun 7, 2011 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Hi
Read my sig for my feelings about potentially giving up Joe Pavelski for a #2 defenseman.
Proud member of the Do Not Under Any Circumstances Trade American Hero Joe Pavelski Or Else I Will Be Crushed Club
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Nice.
Seems a little similar to mine though…
Proud member of the Do Not Under Any Circumstances Trade Canadian Hero Kent Huskins Or Else I Will Be Crushed Club
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
Kent Huskins won't be traded
Don’t you worry. Can’t make any promises about anything else. So you won’t be crushed. Just gutted.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
.
Proud member of the Do Not Under Any Circumstances Trade Canadian Hero Kent Huskins Or Else I Will Be Crushed Club*
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
*Elvis, stop cutting holes in to my stories and also I enjoy quickly changing my sig.
.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I’m reminded of the time Plank hacked my account and changed my signature. Maybe he should intervene in this case.
(I’ll leave it up to mymclife to dig up the thread link, if she’s up to it)
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
Man, wish there was a mymclife spotlight or something so I saw this earlier
But here’s the thread where you first realized it, and here is the main thread reaction.
Also, holy crap that thread brings back memories. Like, in my sig I declared membership of a club against trading a popular drafted and developed Shark. Glad those days are over!
Proud member of the Do Not Under Any Circumstances Trade American Hero Joe Pavelski Or Else I Will Be Crushed Club
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Awesome!
We need a Batsignal for you. But I’ll do you one, better, from the vault =
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
You can trade his rights
Just sayin’
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Restricted free agents are compelled to negotiate with the team to whom they are restricted before they negotiate with any other team. Also the team to whom they are restricted has the right to match any offer made to the player. A team with a restricted free agent can trade away those rights to negotiate first and match offers to another team.
Teams have no rights to unrestricted free agents.
Until the Free Agency period begins
Kent Huskins is still the property of the San Jose Sharks, and can be traded at any point from now until then.
See: Bouwmeester, Jay
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I think there might be a roster freeze of some kind in effect until the end of the finals
But the point is, we can trade Huskins, or anyone else, prior to the opening of the FA season. The team he was traded to would have exclusive rights to negotiate before FA begins.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Also see
Nabby, even if it was only a few days, Phi had traded for negotiating rights.
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey. Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
Shameless plug for my music.
Yeah, i think the reason i’m ok with trading Pavelski is because he’s always kind of frustrated me. I look at him and i see a guy with brilliant puckhandling skills, a great super accurate shot, who’s super smart with great defensive know-how, and yet he seems content putting up the same 60 or so points every year.
I see him as kind of the antithesis of Joe Thornton. People have said Jumbo was a choker because he’d play great in the regular season and then in the playoffs he wouldn’t elevate his game; but the way i look at it he was playing his heart out and giving 100% in every game he played already, he can’t elevate his game much higher.
Pavelski seems to be kind of the opposite. He cruises through most of the regular season even when the team is really struggling and could use his help, until the playoffs start getting close, then he decides to turn it on to reach his 20 goal 60 point marks.
I still love Pavelski because he’s so damn good and it’s exciting to watch him when he does turn it on, but personally i’d rather watch a player like Joe Thornton for 82+ games every year.
It’s probably smarter to save yourself for the playoffs like Pavelski seems to do, but if every player on the team did that we might not make the playoffs as often as we have. Couture on the other hand seems to turn it on when his team needs him, whether it’s in the playoffs, or in the beginning of the regular season when the rest of the team is struggling.
Pavelski has increased his point totals every year save for 09-10, where he only played 67 games. His PPG pace has increased every year for the past three years, not exactly a guy that’s “content putting up the same 60 or so points every year.” Hell, it was only this year that he scored over 60 points.
He consistently shows up in the playoffs, he’s great defensively, he has a great shot, and that innate hockey sense that most players wish they had. Plus, he’s signed to a $4M/year deal for the next three years, which, for a guy that was scoring at around a .9 PPG pace this year plus being second in TOI SH/game, is pretty damn good.
Proud member of the Do Not Under Any Circumstances Trade American Hero Joe Pavelski Or Else I Will Be Crushed Club
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Pavelski has increased his point totals every year save for 09-10, where he only played 67 games. His PPG pace has increased every year for the past three years, not exactly a guy that’s "content putting up the same 60 or so points every year." Hell, it was only this year that he scored over 60 points.
Oh true, i thought he got 60 in 2009 and then 59 or something in 2010.
He consistently shows up in the playoffs, he’s great defensively, he has a great shot, and that innate hockey sense that most players wish they had. Plus, he’s signed to a $4M/year deal for the next three years, which, for a guy that was scoring at around a .9 PPG pace this year plus being second in TOI SH/game, is pretty damn good.
I know how good he is. Maybe i just expect too much from him because i know how talented he is.good.
About his cap hit though, we would ideally be trading him for a number 2 defenseman with a similar value contract. Marc Staal for example is one of the top shutdown defenseman in the league and he’s signed until 2015 at a cap hit of 3.975 mill, which is a better contract than Pavelskis.
Marc Staal would be a nice addition, but the only reason I see Pavelski getting traded is if Doug Wilson thinks speed is THAT big of an asset.
Daniel Erlich for President
\/\/\/\/\/
/\/\/\/\/\
GO SHARKS!!!
by SharksFanTillDeath on Jun 6, 2011 8:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I look at him and i see a guy with brilliant puckhandling skills, a great super accurate shot, who’s super smart with great defensive know-how, and yet he seems content putting up the same 60 or so points every year.
I have no idea what on earth in Pavelski’s demeanor seems to make you think he’s complacent.
He cruises through most of the regular season even when the team is really struggling and could use his help,
Quick, name the different line combinations Pavelski has been on in the past three seasons, and tell me how long any of those lasted.
Couture on the other hand seems to turn it on when his team needs him, whether it’s in the playoffs, or in the beginning of the regular season when the rest of the team is struggling.
Sample size issues much?
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I have no idea what on earth in Pavelski’s demeanor seems to make you think he’s complacent.
His streakiness i guess. His PPG average was probably like 2.0+ in the last 25 30 games of the regular season. The first half of the season his PPG average was probably .4 or less.
Quick, name the different line combinations Pavelski has been on in the past three seasons, and tell me how long any of those lasted.
Maybe that’s the point. When Pavelski’s not “on” the line he plays on falls apart, so Mclellan can never keep his line together because he can’t afford for his 2nd line to not be scoring, which is probably why Pavelski got replaced by Couture on the 2nd line, despite Pavelski having a higher point total this year despite playing mostly on the 3rd line and in fewer games.
Sample size issues much?
True, i was just throwing that out there. I loved that Couture was scoring goals like crazy earlier in the year when the rest of the team was struggling and really needed him though.
You are all CRAZY
Doug will not trade Pavelski. Doug needs to find two line mates that Pavelski can skate with. What #2 dman can we really get, anyways?
by ChangoT on Jun 6, 2011 8:37 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
No YOU are!
Doug needs to find two line mates that Pavelski can skate with
The last thing we need to do is add more scoring depth.
What #2 dman can we really get, anyways?
It depends on what we’re willing to give up. What about trading Pavelski? lol
Pavelski
Is a cornerstone player for the Sharks with an affordable contract. He’s smart, young and one of their best players. He’s not going anywhere. Why do you focus on a solution to the teams problems when you should be focusing on the problem: Why this team re-signed Marleau after trading for Heatley? With Couture, Heatley is expendable, yet we’re stuck with his HUGE contract. That’s the problem and what we all s/b focusing on, not Pavelski, he’s a keeper!
The last thing we need to do is add more scoring depth.
I’m sorry. What?
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Why do we get obsessed with how to beat a certain team?
When they probably aren’t in our way next year. Imagine if we played Nashville instead, this list of what we need would be completely different. The way you overcome this is you find ways to improve upon anything you can. If you can’t get a better D-man because the market is going crazy with its newly minted TV money, you go out and create even more offense than you have now. Or in DW’s case you say thank you Chicago for leaving a #1 goalie out there.
The thing I like best about DW is he doesn’t really reach. At some points he’ll overpay a veteran for a year, but that isn’t reaching as much as it is filling out the roster. Yeah Heater isn’t working out and may never really live up to his contract, but it was a move that at least made sense on paper and he didn’t overpay due to a bidding war or some other situation where demand far exceeded supply. The players he gave up aren’t tearing it up so he just has to live with losing some cap space he could lavish on some other players.
Whether we get the #1 or 2 or whatever D we covet will really be more about how the market shakes out than some well thought out strategy on some whiteboard. Keeping our heads and putting on the ice a team which can compete for the Cup is really all you can do and hope one of these years it all finally works out.
I think that
Seto, Welly, and White would do well to be back in teal next year. Ginner would still be cool to have around, and Mayers too, IMO (bc of the fan favorite thing). There may be others.
mayers=fan favorite?
he certainly wasn’t on my list….
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 7, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s one of my favorites on the “Sharks’ players I would rather are not resigned” list.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
^that
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jun 7, 2011 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions
Just remember, don’t overspend this year, after all, you want to re-sign Couture next year I assume…?!
DownGoesAvery. Check out the hockey blog that's shaking the world: Down Goes Avery and on Twitter (@DownGoesAvery ).
If Logan Couture doesn't stay in teal
There might be riots.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
In Vancouver
It’s their thing
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
by Bockerz on Jun 7, 2011 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for absolutely,
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jun 7, 2011 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I might die if that happens.
Patrick Marleau on previous fighting experience: "I've got an older brother, too... so..."
Couture? I think he's in the UFC or something.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Awful hit
Bruins were already lacking in depth, this only exacerbates the problem. Don’t expect Vancouver to come out so flat again. Tide of the series very much in Vancouver’s favor now.
As for the hit: very late (Horton takes 3 strides), very high, very bad. Good on the NHL for the suspension. I don’t think they were suspending to the injury as many people seem to think. They’re simply ensuring that Rome doesn’t play again in the series, which is the point.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I agree
Though I have this nagging feeling that if the tables had been turned or if a guy like Kesler/Burrows had done it, there would’ve been a shorter suspension.
Frankly, it may not have been “suspendable” according to the new rule. But it was a dangerous and dirty hit. It’s good that they made that move. There’s no reason to hit a guy like that, regardless of whether Horton’s head “should have been up” or not.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
It's not a blindside hit
But it’s a headshot. He’s leaving his feet, the puck is gone, and despite what the knuckleheads say, it’s not a hockey play. It’s a bad hit.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I know why the Sharks didn't win the cup.
They don’t have their own cartoon.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
Now that Bryzgalov is not staying in Phoenix
Any shot at Niitty being moved there so the Sharks can get a cheaper backup?
Dought it
Why give up a great back up just to free up 2M in cap space. Well, more like 1M because they will have to sign a decent b/u regardless.
by will_hunter23 on Jun 9, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Stalock.
He’s already a decent backup (1-0-0, 100% saves, 0.00 GAA last year!) and has a reasonable salary.
It only frees up something like $1.5m, but even that can be the difference between signing a #2 defenseman instead of a #3 and pretending they’re a #2.
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