Sharks acquire Martin Havlat from Minnesota Wild in exchange for Dany Heatley
by Mr. Plank on Jul 4, 2011 1:40 AM PDT
in Armchair GM
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PrintLast year the San Jose Sharks didn't make their big move until the NHL Trade Deadline when they acquired Ian White from the Carolina Hurricanes. This year Doug Wilson got to work early in the offseason, completing two blockbuster deals with the Minnesota Wild. When the dust had cleared, Devin Setoguchi, Dany Heatley, Charlie Coyle, and a first round draft pick were out while Brent Burns, Martin Havlat, and a second round pick were in.
One week, two moves, and a distinctly different looking team.
For an organization that reached the Western Conference Finals during the last two seasons, a shakeup of this magnitude was either expected or unnecessary depending on who you asked. During the last two offseasons the San Jose Sharks have tinkered with their lineup for the most part, adding bit pieces and role players on the bottom lines. The only major acquisition in those two years (Dany Heatley incidentally) was traded for Jonathan Cheechoo and Milan Michalek, a lopsided deal that saw the San Jose Sharks land one of the NHL's premier snipers in exchange for a falling star and a promising young forward that had never quite put it all together. Other than that it was a change at the bottom of the lineup here, a different set of energy players there, but essentially the same look year in year out.
That second straight Western Conference Finals loss? Yeah, it changed things.
Before we get into commentary of this deal, let's take a look at the relevant even strength and power play statistics of both Heatley and Havlat over the last three seasons. It gives us a nice sample considering both players are the same age (30), are used in similar situations (scoring lines, power play), played relatively similar number of games (73+ per year) and have played for two separate teams during the last four years (SJS, OTT for Heatley, MIN, CHI for Havlat). Since both players don't play a large role on the penalty kill we will ignore those numbers for now:
Make the jump for analysis.
From left to right, here is what the numbers are saying:
- Heatley has faced more difficult competition over the course of his career, in large part due to the fact that he is usually placed on a team's top line while Havlat has historically been a second line winger.
- Although Heatley's box car numbers will show that he is a much more prolific goal scorer than Martin Havlat (as Havlat's career high 31 goals in 2003-2004 will attest to), they're remarkably similar in regards to their production at 5v5 when you correct for ice time. The difference here is that Heatley is coming off one of the worst seasons in his career offensively while Havlat had another quietly productive year in Minnesota.
- The same can be said for points-- similar players when adjusted for ice time, with Heatley having one of the worst offensive seasons in his career last year with San Jose.
- In terms of shots given up while on the ice at even strength, Heatley again struggled last season while Havlat did well on a Minnesota team that struggled in this regard. Historically, Havlat is superior in this regard, a testament to his superior two way game. Their goals against when on the ice in comparison to their teammates bear this out to a certain degree. Havlat is better than Heatley in the defensive zone but I think it's fair to say that neither players would be suited for a checking line role. Which isn't what they are asked to play of course, but it bears mentioning.
- The power play is where, hands down, Dany Heatley makes his money, and the numbers speak to that quite loudly. There's no doubt that he is one of the NHL's premier snipers in the League, has a cannon of a slap shot, an accurate wrist shot, and has all the tools in the world that makes him absolutely deadly in this area of the game. This is where he will be missed the most in San Jose.
In terms of this deal for San Jose I think this comment from stats guru Gabe Desjardins sums up the trade quite nicely:
Havlat got soft ice time from the second he got to Min, while McLellan used Heatley to match up against opposing line 1s. The deal makes the Sharks worse, but not $2.5M worse, so they come out ahead.
Using that cap space to round out the roster is going to be essential going forward. As of today the San Jose Sharks have $6.7 MM in cap space that will be used to acquire a mere two players that will play on the third/fourth line provided Joe Pavelski plays in the top six. That is a phenomenal opportunity for the organization to drastically improve the roster from where it is already-- although many of the big names have already been acquired from the free agent list, players such as Antti Miettinen, Jamie Langenbrunner, and John Madden are still available and would provide excellent value to the team.
The biggest key to this deal is whether or not Dany Heatley's injuries last season (groin, broken hand) are recurring or if they were a one time issue that won't be a problem next season. Doug Wilson has historically had an excellent track record of identifying when a player is on the downswing of his career, and that factor could prove instrumental in understanding why the Sharks gave up the more prominent point producer in this trade-- as Gabe said, the Sharks got worse today by a slight margin, but not so much so as to make the cap savings irrelevant.
After the additions of Michal Handzus and Martin Havlat, there is no doubt that San Jose is going to be tougher to play against at even strength next season. With the addition of puck moving defenseman Brent Burns at the 2011 NHL Entry Draft, the effects of Dany Heatley's loss on the power play should be mitigated to some degree. And while I think Dany Heatley is a better player than Martin Havlat when taken as a complete whole, the idea of becoming a better defensive team up and down the lineup is an appealing one when the addition of Burns has made the Sharks a more formidable force in the offensive zone. That's something that Havlat provides and an area where Heatley lacked.
A trade of this magnitude, coupled with the cap space San Jose has at this point (~$6.7 MM), makes it seem a near certainty that something else is on the horizon for the Sharks. The team has vastly improved its blueline, gotten more defensively responsible up front, and has the room under the upper limit to make another big plunge.
Samuel Jackson said it best, man.
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Quick Correction: "With the addition of puck moving defenseman Brent Burns at the Trade Deadline"
You mean at the Draft, right? Sorry…just noticed it haha
Otherwise, great analysis, and I agree entirely. Time to fix the bottom 2 lines, and we’re ready for a good run. Go DW! Go Sharks! :D
Go Sharks!
Fixed— thanks!
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Finally got rid of dead weight.
Havlat will make this team better all around. His defense is definetly superior than Heatleys. He doesn’t have the “play when I want to” type mentality.
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Jul 4, 2011 2:09 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
And what makes you think Heatley was that sort of player?
I don’t remember him looking lazy out there. Any data for that conjecture?
Like most people here, I never miss a game if I miss it I record it and Dany was the target of my frustration most of the time he was with San Jose. He just floated out there, that’s his style and that’s how he played with Ottawa as well, he had excellent puck movers and he picked and sniped, he just didn’t fit here because of his “style” of play which I always found uninspired and lackluster in effort.
derp.
Heatley was more of the “play when I can”- sure he’s not the best defenseman/backchecker, but for someone who probably shouldn’t have even played the majority of the year due to numerous injuries, I’d say he did more than alright.
I agree with Plank-we’re worse…but not $2.5 mil worse. Final judgment on this deal stays in my pocket til the final cogs are in place. Like that Steven kid from Tampa.
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
by Brittjames11 on Jul 4, 2011 11:17 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I hear he has quite the knack for scoring…
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Jul 4, 2011 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions
oh youbetcha.
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
by Brittjames11 on Jul 4, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It's unfortunate but...
Truthfully Heatley’s been screwing up since he’s been injured. I loved Heatley when he was a Sharks! However I think DW either knows that Heatley is on the decline or there is another huge move in the brewing stages that none expects. I still think that the Sharks are the best team in the league dominating the best division in the league and with Havlat speeds and goal scoring ability this only makes us more dangerous!!!
Amazing..
Kudos, Mr. Plank for the excellent analysis on the trade, as well as countless other articles. The amount of detail, commentary, and humor are perfectly balanced.
Just wanted to say thanks, and keep up the good work!
Sharks in ’12!
by Grattonia on Jul 4, 2011 2:16 AM PDT reply actions 5 recs
+1
I like more diversified skill set that this trade brings to the Sharks.
Havlat brings speed, two-way game, etc. The Sharks had an overabundance in one area, and have traded from that area of strength on two occasions now to shore up areas where there was an underabundance (is that a word? lol), IMO. Anyways, it will be interesting to see how the rest of the offseason plays out, however you feel about this trade.
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Plank is the man!
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
So...
This is a good move if we can round out our roster…
I guess I’ll remain patient, but most of the players I’d like to round out the roster with are no longer available via free agency. Which means trades. What else do we have to trade? The cupboards are bare.
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Our most tradeable assets seem to be Braun, Mitchell, maybe Niittymaki, and picks.
You know if we traded Niitty we could resign Nabby for 1 mill or less to play as our backup in somewhat of a Chris Osgood type role. If Vokoun can be signed for 1.5 mill then i’m sure Nabby would be willing to play for us again at 1 mill or less; if he wants to play in the NHL again, there aren’t many other options.
Then again, would any teams even be interested in Niitty and his 2 mill cap hit? Probably not I guess. =\
Yeah that would be pretty nice too bad the Islanders still hold the rights to Nabokov for one more year at 500k since he never showed up last season. (And I honestly don’t expect him to show this season either.)
Oh weird, for some reason i thought they released him or traded his rights or something.
I remember reading that he said he would show up for training camp for the Islanders next season.
Yeah, I mean I could be wrong but as far as I know the Islanders still have his rights and are either expecting him to show up for camp or are trying to trade him? Maybe we can trade Nittymaki for Nabokov and save another 1.5 mill.
No seriously, why are we trying to dump a decent backup?
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TEH STAMOKOS.
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by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Mitchell/Murray and a first for negotiating rights.
That’s under the assumption that Tampa just couldn’t work a deal out. The first is conditional on Stammer signing.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Okay, so Yzerman hangs up the phone laughing and dials 28 other teams who’d pay more.
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We’re signing Evgeni Artyukhin to a 4 year, $33M deal :P
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by DiscoSemenov on Jul 4, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
because nabby would be the best best goalie in our organization right now, if we made this move
Proud perpetrator of yelling "Money MIke" at Oracle Arena since Dunleavy's trade to the Pacers.
And I honestly don’t expect him to show this season either.
It’s already been confirmed that Nabokov intends to report this season.
GO SHARKS!
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Last I heard...
One of the conditions of letting Nabby play in the world championships was the islanders would toll his contract for 2011-12. Did both sides finally smarten up on this? If so, good for them.
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Personally i think it's a solid move
Just posted this in the other thread so i’ll repost it here.
Heatley was trending downwards fairly rapidly; and i’m not just referring to his stats; he seemed to be getting more and more injured and the injuries seemed to really affect his game. It seems like he’s had a problem with his knee for some time now, and he’s also had a lot of groin injuries that seem to have lingering effects on his game.
Meanwhile Havlat seems to have gotten over his injury problems and has provided consistent offense for his teams despite not playing with caliber of players that Heatley has (Thornton, Marleau, Spezza, Alfredson, etc.)
Even if we do lose a bit of offense trading Heatley for Havlat, he’ll more than make up for it with his speed, defensive play, and his lower cap hit.
This trade gets a thumbs up from me, and it’ll get a lot more than that if DW can make magic happen with the 6.7 million cap space we now have.
Time will be the telling factor in this trade. While I agree Heatley has been downtrending, you never know 100% with these things, and I personally believe the move had a good amount to do with DW seeing in his eyes a repeat of Cheechoo, and so wanted to pull the trigger early while he still had some value.
If DW doesn’t use that extra 2.5 from cap savings, then the deal is a miss in my eyes, even if Heatley only puts out 30 goals this season again. Well, unless Havlat turns out to be a beast in our top lines and busts out 30+.
Again, time will tell, but i’ll feel a lot better to see that cap space used instead of being a futures deal.
I feel the same way. And sometimes it just comes down to a matter of fit. Was Heatley’s skill-set and temperament (I don’t mean bad attitude—more of just the “star mentality” he’d earned throughout his life by posting huge numbers) a bad fit for this particular Sharks team?
I think one of the hardest things for a manager to do is to make a deal like this that seems, on the surface, for a loss. He may know deep down that things just aren’t clicking and probably won’t without the change, but to have the guts to make a move like this? Big kudos to DW for at least trying. Now he (and we) can only wait and see if that feeling on his part was right.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
The dust has yet to settle..
DW still has a few moves to make, but I’m already confident in these changes being for the positive. Let’s hold off on the dramatics until next year’s team is fully ironed out.
With the Cojones on DW, i wouldn’t be surprised to see him offersheet someone soon. I personally really like Blake Wheeler and i think he’d be an absolute perfect fit on our team.
Zach Parise and Stamkos are still out there too! lol
Parise
I wish!!
Our future Captain
by Fear the 8 on Jul 4, 2011 5:50 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Parise is in Arbitration with NJ
The Devils did that to avoid offer sheets, but it looks like he hasn’t been signed just yet….
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
Wheeler is enigma. Take it from a Bruins fan, one night he looks like a future star, another like fringe player. I think part of it could be that he wasn’t playing with the right people on his line. In Atlanta he picked up his scoring. I really think he has the goods to be a quality player in the NHL.
Offer Sheets
OK – again, DW will NOT be offersheeting anyone – not only does it not happen very often at all but the fact that the Sharks don’t have their 2nd or 3rd round picks makes it nearly impossible.
Unless he throws $7.4mil plus at someone (4 1st round picks) it’s just not going to happen.
Offer Sheet Compensation
OK – it’s actually $7.8mil + the Sharks would have to offer….here’s the comps:
•$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation
•$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick
•$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick
•$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick
•$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick
•$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third
•$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks
We don’t have 2nd and 3rd round picks? I thought we had like 3 second round picks or something. Where can you look that stuff up?
hehe
Parise? maybe… Stamkos? not so much… (although maybe you were joking…). I posted this on the other thread, but it didn’t come out very well, so I’ll try again.
The Sharks don’t really need another top 6 forward, IMO. I don’t think there’s a place on this team for a guy like Stamkos (unless you’re thinking from a depth perspective). An acquisition like that would merely make one of the other top 6 guys expendable again (including Havlat, perhaps)… but yeah, solid checkers, third and fourth line guys—definetly would be welcome, IMO.
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
I agree. They had too many top 6 forwards, and when putting one on the 3rd line it diminishes the returns. Sure Pavelski did good on the 3rd line, but put him with players more skilled and he will explode. All this talk of rolling 3 scoring lines, but you don’t need 3 scoring lines when it means overpaying for the 3rd line center. Pavelski is too skilled to play on a 3rd line and get 3rd line icetime.
The issue with offer sheets for the guys you are mentioning is this— DW and the Sharks wouldn’t make a long term commitment to a player that would be required in order to force Tampa Bay/New Jersey to give up said player. San Jose likes to keep term low in order to provide greater flexibility for the team. It’s nearly impossible to make a move that forces another team into biting the bullet in that regard.
Trading for an impending RFA is much more likely (if it’s even likely at all).
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Parise is headed to arbitration and can't be made an RFA offer
I want him in Ottawa SO BAD
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I don't think San Jose lost out on this trade, whatsoever.
Individual stats are great, if you play alone. But….
Like Cheechoo to OTT, everyone was left asking ’ Uh, what the Hell happened to this guy"? The magic didn’t leave Cheechoo. Like many a Nabokov argument, he was a product of the system, his skills heightened due to his surroundings.
Even with these surroundings, Heatley’s massive salary cap and limited skill set have taken a beating. I’ve seen arguments earlier that ‘The Sharks got screwed because havlat is injury prone". These same people made excuses for Heatley’s decline….because Healtey was injured, for more than half the season, and the playoffs.
This isn’t the first playoffs this has happened to him, either.
Havlat’s overall game outweighs Heatley’s by leaps and bounds. Heatley is well known as a one-trick pony. Fortunately for him, his trick is scoring goals, something that comes at the utmost premium in the NHL. That being said, he’s not going to be surrounded by as many weapons as he was in San Jose. For a PP guy who parks in front of the net and doesnt stickhandle wonderfully, the Sharks made out like bandits. And they got more salary cap to work with now, so they can add ANOTHER player who can further solidify San Jose’s cohesive package.
Love Heatley all you want, but IMO, this was an absolutely brilliant move by Doug Wilson. Just remember this: Vandermeer will be your new Huskins.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 4:22 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I never had a problem with Huskins, just his contract. Didn’t Vandy sign for like a mil? Much easier to accept than 1.7 for Mr. Huskers.
People will blame somebody. Semenov worked for nothing and that didn’t exempt him from being the ostracized one by fans.
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Ya, Semenov was great!
Hamburger Helper!
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by DiscoSemenov on Jul 4, 2011 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions
True, and that’s why I agree with Ghost that Vandy will be the next Huskins. Just saying that in my own opinion Huskins did exactly what he was supposed to do, but was compensated very well for it. If anything we shouldn’t blame Huskins, but DW. To me it will be interesting and possibly very entertaining see how people pick on Huskins 2.0 despite a more reasonable contract.
Huskins?
Oh no! I guess the good news is: Vand. won’t get as much PT as Husky or Wallin did. He’s a good pickup for a lower level D mam.
by will_hunter23 on Jul 6, 2011 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Completely agree
From what I’ve seen out of Heatley, it eerily seems like another Cheechoo situation. Those groin injuries rarely have full recoveries, which take its toll on a skaters speed (just ask Johnathan).
Havlat offers whats been missing and will be more missed with Seto out the door – speed. And taking into account that Heatley has been surrounded with a much better supporting cast throughout his career (at least relative to Havlats), expect Havlats numbers to increase with the speed and defensive coverage he brings that Heatley did not.
Might take a while to fully appreciate, and although I have questioned DW’s decisions before, this is my mind is magic worked again from one of the best GM’s in the business.
Vandermeer will be your new Huskins
For some reason the moment I heard of Vandermeer I thought of Windemeer (the guy with the asthma that sucked in Rookie of the Year).
"It was good to get banged and give a few bangs." - Jonathan Cheechoo
The only problem with this is that Heatley has never been a fast guy
His skating has always been sub-par. That doesn’t mean that injuries aren’t taking their toll, just that speed has never really been a key part of his game to begin with.
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The Elephant in the Corner
As the dust settles I like this trade a lot.
Heatley’s effectiveness was in decline due to injuries and even when healthy I was always surprised that he commanded as much $$$ as he did given his predominantly one-dimensional game. It was frustrating to watch him get knocked off the puck as easily as he was last season – clearly his groin injury affected his play and having one healthy hand didn’t help either.
With Havlat, the Sharks add speed, a guy who is hungry to play in the playoffs, a dependable two-way game, and scoring ability. Add to that $2.5M of cap space which in my mind is what sealed the deal.
Now the question becomes, who does Wilson add to the roster next to fill out the 3rd and 4th lines?
Well done DW
More cap space while getting more versatility, speed, and defense? I’d like to shake your hand, DW…very well done. Trading Heatly seems to have been met positively by the posters here so far, so it seems like we’ve been hearing the same refrain from our own little inner voices. (soft whispery voice) Heatly is not worth it…trade him…
When I look at both trades with the Wild in total I can’t help but feel that DW recouped the slight overpayment for Burns by sending a 7.5 million cap hit the other way. I don’t know if, “You owe me,” type things happen between GMs, but this looks like one to me. We get Burns, Havlat, and a 2nd for Heatly, Seto, Coyle, and a 1st…looks pretty fair to this Sharks fan.
I too think there will be another move, and my guess is that it will be for another talented defenseman. It’s my guess that DW has noticed that the teams that have been getting to, and winning the SC, have had very good defensive depth. Utter speculation on my part of course…but that’s what makes sense to me. This is in addition to signing a couple forwards to fill out the 3rd and 4th lines.
If I were a poet I’d write you a song, Doug. But I’m not. I’m a weatherman and you already live in San Jose…so I guess my thanks and appreciation for being the baddest ass GM in the game will have to suffice.
Which line do we put Havlat on?
First or Second? I can’t decide which is the better place for him
"Everybody had a part in this. As you can see, our fans love this. And we love them. And bring on the next team." -Joe Thornton
by waive kent huskins on Jul 4, 2011 7:05 AM PDT reply actions
He's a more natural right wing...
But I wouldn’t say that the first line is really lacking speed, what with Marleau fit in there…
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My choice
Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Splits up the speed some, and Havlat is more of a playmaker, so you’d have him and Joe passing to each other for weeks without shooting. Pavelski also has the right handed shot that both Seto and Cheechoo had on Joe’s wing. Havlat can set up Couture.
I don't think you can go wrong
I’d be curious, for the reason you stated (Havlat being more of a playmaker), to see Havlat on the RW with Pavelski. With that shot and scoring sense that Pavs brings, I think there could be some real magic there. I’d go with Clowe, too, but I think we might have a good chance ahead for some classic McLellan mixing-and-matching.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
If I was DW, and I'm not, I would pick up Zherdev for between 2-2.5
- Put Z (a right handed shot, with great hands) on the top line with Thornton
- Move Havlat to the second line
- Re-sign Welly for 1.25 and reconstruct the Wellwood – Pavs – Mitchell line
- This leaves a fourth line McGinn – Handzus – Desjarden
- I would look at signing Owen Nolan for less than 1 million and slot him in a fourth line role, but it would be nice to have him around as he could step in for brief spells on the third or second line as necessary
GO SHARKS!
they are awful. YOU NEED HEART YOU NEED FIRE YOU NEED GUTS AND GRIT!!!!
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
There is the “No Heart” BS that Marleau gets accused of…
Then there are players who sit in the neutral zone waiting for the team to get them the puck instead of playing defense and never move their feet unless they’re on the power play. Let me introduce you to Zherdev.
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i’m sure there is something salvageable there. If he really has that much skill, he is an asset for the right price
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
He’s a more talented Kaspar. But he was redeemable, right? He’s doing so well in… where did he go again?
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I'm pretty sure Siberia is actually an accurate answer on that one...
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
how is that even a comparison? Kaspar played 14 NHL games
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
Same work ethic, Zherdev just has more skill.
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Okay, how about a less skilled Yashin?
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What, no Jagr?
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Nah
Jagr is fine, he’s just an asshole.
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by Evilducks on Jul 4, 2011 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sign big contract in New York.
Say “fuck you” and play in Russia. Double the paycheck.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
"If money is all that you love, then that's what you'll receive"
Cash-in Yashin. He made Daigle look like Yzerman in terms of heart.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Don't tell Millbury!
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Millbury is my favorite GM
Saved our franchise, man
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
And probably multiple careers too.
I found it ironic that Chara and Luongo were big stories in the Finals, while Millbury sat there “analyzing” both teams.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Wasn't Savard an Islander as well?
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I didn’t realize that in 2000, Millbury picked DiPietro at 1 and Raffi Torres at 5th overall (!) over guys like Hossa/Heatley at 1 and anyone else at 5.
Well, DiPietro I understand. Torres though…
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I can't decide which Millbury's worse at
Being a GM or being a commentator
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I feel like his failures at one make him impossible to take seriously at the other
There’s no justifiable way to take his opinions seriously.
Unless you’re his mom, I guess.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Dude's the Matt Millen of hockey
It’s absurd that NBC/Versus can’t find anyone else to commentate given how he can’t be taken seriously because of his idiocy in the front office.
I want JR on full time
I don’t care if he hates Marleau. JR’s got the table TV. Plus he’s a former Shark…
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
He’s just another jackass with a microphone.
but the table tv is sweet.
by meetyourmako on Jul 6, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Millbury isn't as bad as Pierre McGuire though.
For that matter, leprosy isn’t as bad as Pierre McGuire.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
If the highlight of your resume
Is “not as bad as Pierre McGuire,” you’re doing it wrong.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Hmm... maybe that's why no one's signed me yet.
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
if DW does for some reason acquire Zherdev, it’s gonna get hilarious in here
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I better be eating crow by December like I was with Niemi if that’s the case otherwise I may hang myself by April.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Tweet Tweet
Gutless.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like where you're going with the idea (the line setup and all)
But, Zheredev is too undisiplined , IMO, to work well on this team. We need a player who has more heart in that top line winger position.
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
Best of luck to Heatley.
On the plus side, once he gets to Minnesota they’ll start to see that the Healtey Hate is largely the product of Ottawa and Edmonton not liking the fact that someone thinks they suck. Thing is, we all know it’s true, they know it’s true, too, they just don’t like someone admitting it. But since the Canadian media is 90% of hockey news, their hate-ons have unfairly colored the perception of him for a while.
Take a look at the comments you read and you’ll see what I mean. Apparently—at least according to everyone who doesn’t follow San Jose—he was a primadonna here and a locker-room cancer that cost the Sharks the Stanley Cup twice.
It’s going to suck to see him go, though. I hope Wilson was right and he’s on the decline, but there’s no knowing until after the fact. In the mean time, I think he’s a good person who gets a bum wrap because he “dared” to exercise his NTC. Unfortunately for him, on one bothers to ask, “Wait, if Edmonton was one of the 10 teams he specifically said he didn’t want to be traded to, WHY DID OTTAWA PURSUE THEM?” It’s like stepping on a rake and getting hit in the face, then blaming the rake for letting you step on it.
by Nick! on Jul 4, 2011 9:00 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
woah..
trying to see what you did there (I need more knowledge of Heatley’s history, I guess).
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
Never Understood The Heater Hate!!
I mean the guy worked his entire life to get to a point where he could call some shots in his career. Ottawa AGREED to his terms when they signed the contract with him. He followed the terms of the deal by providing a list of teams that he WOULD NOT accept a trade to. Inexcusably, Ottawa then talked trade with Edmonton and agreed to a proposal. Then they tried to put pressure on Heatley by leaking the deal to the press. Heater sticks to his guns and says “no thanks”, which he and the world KNEW was his right per the contract that he and Ottawa agreed to. And Dany ends up being portrayed as the bad guy in that situation?? Ri-freaking-diculous.
Really world?? If given a choice between working in the Arctic chill of Edmonton or working in the Bay Area, Edmonton would be a better choice?? Not.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Sorry, but that's not the way it went down. At all.
Heatley did not have a list of teams he could refuse a trade to when he was under contract in Ottawa. He had a full-blown no-trade clause.
Who leaked Heatley’s trade request to the media has never been revealed. It is a speculative statement to claim Ottawa tried to put pressure on Heatley by leaking the deal—there is an equal chance that his side leaked the request to put pressure on Ottawa to trade him.
What you need to understand is that Ottawa fans embraced Heatley after he suffered the tragic loss of his friend. He wanted a fresh start and he got one in Ottawa. The team then committed to him as a franchise player with a large contract after that fresh start—but not long after that commitment, he demanded a new “fresh start” without giving any rational reason.
There was nothing “inexcusable” about the deal the Senators made with the Oilers. Again, there was no “list” at this point: There was a trade request and a trade on the table. Heatley refused this trade, as his contract entitled him to do. No one in Ottawa begrudges this—the team tied their own hands by giving him this power.
The animosity from Senators fans stems from his selfish and inexplicable actions towards the franchise that gave him everything he asked for. To this day, he’s never stated his reasons for demanding a trade. It’s a poorly-kept secret that he simply didn’t like the head coach, Cory Clouston, who asked that all of his players commit to defense, and rewarded those who performed well with increased ice time and reduced the ice time of those who weren’t willing to work.
That’s a far cry from the emotional burden of seeing the ghost of your friend every day and, quite frankly, an insult to the team and fans who embraced him.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
You are right about the clause Mark… I’m thinking DumbPuck probably didn’t realize that the 10 teams list was a window in his contract that just started this season.
But I will say… maybe Heatley didn’t like Clouston. But perhaps he was onto something seeing that Clouston saw his way out this season.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
Find me on Twitter @njahoda
There's definitely that possibility
With the rapid decline of Ottawa since 2007, it’s certainly something we’ve discussed over at Silver Seven. Clouston certainly wasn’t without his flaws, and that’s a big reason why he’s no longer the head coach.
We might be singing a much different tune over Heatley’s departure if he said something like, “I don’t think our coach is capable of maximizing the talent on this roster, and I expressed my concerns about that to management. I didn’t feel they took my concerns or me seriously, so I asked for a trade.”
But he didn’t say that. He didn’t say anything, really, and that leaves us with nothing but the impression of a betrayal by an ungrateful player.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Perhaps he didn't want to make the management look bad...
By saying that, he would rip on a big part of the organization…I think both sides are at fault for the conflict, but it’s over now…I am looking forward to Havlat being here.
Go Sharks!
That may have been the case
I think that his silence was an attempt to try to leave with some class, but I don’t feel like it worked.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Given his silence during the whole ordeal, and reticence to talk about it afterward, does it really make sense to you that Heatley’s camp was leaking the stories about demanding a trade? Given the content of the leaks, it’s pretty clear it was someone in the Senators organization, and the repeated leaks to the media always painted Heatley in a bad light (if you want more indications it was a pressure move by the Sens).
The vindictiveness of the leaks (agreeing to a deal with Edmonton and leaking the trade details before checking to see if Heatley would invoke his NTC) was some Jr. High level drama bullshit, regardless of whether you think it was selfish of Heatley to request a trade.
Liftetime president of the Darren Turcott Q-Tip Dexterity Awareness Foundation
finally caved in, as @shampeon on the Twitternet
Yep
I am surprised any time a FA signs in Ottawa.
Your thoughts on that sordid tale mirrored mine pretty much. The media followed along with whomever in the Sens organization was orchestrating that.
Nuck’s Misconduct Bishop, 1st United Church of Luongod. "For true believers, the bile you spew is our fuel, and when the Canucks raise the Cup next year, we shall drink it, mixed with your tears like the sweetest wine." WAACH' 6/26/11
The media's lazy.
They write the easy story and use the sources that are most readly-at-hand. Why do you think there’ve been so many lockout stories lately? Because what with the NBA and NFL having labor disputes and the fact that they can’t write about Phoenix-to-Winnipeg this summer, it’s the only other easy topic that writes itself.
If they didn’t do lockout stories, they’d be forced to actually spend money. And worse yet, they wouldn’t get the story out “first,” which is all that matters now anyway.
I can definitely understand that point of view
I go back to the fact that Heatley got plenty of leverage from the leak—it created a circus atmosphere that practically forced Bryan Murray to trade him—when I consider if it makes sense for his camp to leak it.
I don’t buy the media bias towards Heatley as an indication of Sens pressure—Heatley had not been speaking to the local Ottawa media for almost half a year by the time the trade details leaked, as he was displeased with their disparaging coverage of him up to that point. The Ottawa media would have painted Heatley in a bad light no matter what—they had an axe to grind, and we’ve seen numerous examples of it here.
(agreeing to a deal with Edmonton and leaking the trade details before checking to see if Heatley would invoke his NTC) was some Jr. High level drama bullshit,
No argument on this. I was thoroughly displeased with how it was handled by the Senators.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Still makes no sense to me...
Sorry, but if I don’t get along with my boss at work, I’m going to try to go somewhere else. It doesn’t matter how great your co-workers are, how the benefit packages compares to others out there or if the customers “embrace” and appreciate me. If it’s personally unbearable, I am going to try and improve the situation for me and my family. It’s well within anyone’s rights to do so.
If that makes a city hate me, then they can hate me. But, IMO, it’s entirely hypocritical because the overwhelming majority of people would try and improve their situation, too.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
That's a ridiculous comparison
It wasn’t a matter of “getting along” with his boss. What you are claiming—that doing what he was paid to do (i.e. literally, playing hockey) was “personally unbearable”—is absurd.
Heatley was being asked to backcheck, not harvest the souls of kittens by drowning them in a river. He could have easily “improved his situation” by performing the duties consummate with his role as a hockey player. He was not being asked to do anything any of the other players on the roster were not asked to do as well.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Really?!?!
What you are claiming—that doing what he was paid to do (i.e. literally, playing hockey) was "personally unbearable"—is absurd.
So you were in the room?? You know how Clouston interacted with Heatley? If not getting along with your boss is “absurd” then there’s a shit-ton of absurdity happening in the real world to a zillion people everyday.
You have no way of knowing how Clouston delivered his backcheck message. You have no way to know what he was being asked to do. Funny that he didn’t have a problem backchecking here in San Jose. Maybe not the fastest backchecker on the team, but there are a ton of times where he backchecked his way into stopping opponents’ offensive rushes.
My point is this: The message being delivered from a boss may be correct and may not be something that’s asked individually (not to the group), but if the delivery to someone is not agreeable or if the personalities clash, then it’s not the end of the world for someone to try and go somewhere else. Happens every single day, though maybe not as much now in this country with the recession. Trust me – my boss is a dick and if I didn’t have a family to support and the unemployment rate weren’t 18% here, I’d be finding a different job. I love my co-workers, appreciate the benefits package and enjoy working nearby, but having the frustration of dealing with an asshole everyday negates those positives.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
I don't know how Clouston interacted with Heatley, no.
But of course, you don’t know how Clouston interacted with Heatley, either. It could very well be that Clouston acted in a completely professional manner and Heatley simply chose to be a baby about it. If you’re going to ask me to accept the possibility that Clouston was “personally unbearable” because I wasn’t there, then it’s equally unfair for you to claim Heatley left because his boss was an asshole. Obviously, neither of us know for sure, because neither party talked about it.
But I do know that 11 other skaters managed to execute the gameplan, and from that, I think it’s reasonable to argue if Heatley felt singled out, it was probably because he was the one not doing what was asked of him.
My point is this: […] if the personalities clash, then it’s not the end of the world for someone to try and go somewhere else
I agree with this entirely. But given what I know of Clouston’s coaching style, I doubt a personality clash occurred, unless Heatley expected to be coddled. If that was the case, as it appears to an outsider, then Heatley’s actions were indeed selfish, because Clouston’s requests were in no way unreasonable, regardless of how they may have been delivered.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I’m sorry, but this is just spite masquerading as analysis. You have no idea what Clouson’s relationship with Heatley was like, or why Heatley was unhappy with the Senators. Any and all of these guys could be lying, for one. And mostly, Heatley’s never given his account of the events, so you’re just assuming the worst on his behalf.
Liftetime president of the Darren Turcott Q-Tip Dexterity Awareness Foundation
finally caved in, as @shampeon on the Twitternet
I actually don’t blame him for not going to Edmonton. He had the opportunity to decide, and there’s no way in hell most players would want to go there to win (Smyth went for other reasons).
I understand why people in Edmonton and Ottawa don’t like him. And that’s fine. But I don’t understand why there are other people around the league who seem to dislike him. That confuses me.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
The answer is simple!
No Canadians would ever dare improve their personal situation by switching places of employment or refusing transfer to a place that they have no interest in residing in for eight months out of the year.
[/sarcasm]
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
I know it’s just me, but I feel like once you’ve explicitly asked the management to trade you, you have waived your no trade clause.
Morally, I agree with you
But he still had the clause, and thus, the right to use it—even if it comes off selfish.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
I don't blame him for not going to Edmonton either
He had the power to veto any trade, and he exercised it. If Ottawa didn’t want him to have that power, they shouldn’t have given it to him.
I do find it a little hypocritical to ask for a trade and then refuse one, since I feel the NTC was given to him as a sign of good faith that he was considered a cornerstone of the team, but the bottom line is that it’s unreasonable to ask someone not to do something they feel is in their best interests because it’s inconvenient for you.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Not trying to argue with you
You probably know more about the Sens and the Heatley situation than I do. Just playing devil’s advocate because I really couldn’t stand the Heater Hate™ from fans who have no clue about what went on. Most just piled on for no reason at all…
I wouldn’t have gone to Edmonton, either. No amount of legend and mystique could make me wanna go there to live.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Honestly, we're not on very different sides
I don’t dislike Heatley for his choices, because I genuinely believe in his right to choose, but for how he acted. He really came across as disingenuous, and I think that rubbed a lot of Ottawa fans the wrong way. Maybe had legitimate gripes and simply got bad PR advice from his agent; I honestly don’t know. I can only judge him on my perceptions, and I do.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
That said, I can't imagine why fans in Atlanta (sigh), Edmonton, or San Jose would hate him
Like, you’re going to be mad because he dissed your city in a trade? Get over it.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
There were no fans in Atlanta.
That’s kinda the point.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:06 PM PDT up reply actions
As an Atlanta resident, I don't think this is accurate
The Thrashers suffered from the worst management perhaps in all of sports, but definitely in the NHL.
That’s a whole other conversation, though. All I meant was that I wouldn’t understand Thrashers fans booing a guy trying to move on from a tragedy.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
The ASG were definatley not meant to own anything.
ANYTHING!
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
No kidding
But it sure seems the Board of Governors only cares if owners have the money or not.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
by Mark Parisi on Jul 4, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is amazing.
The funny thing? Jim Balsillie is hemorrhaging money right now, what with RIM losing a ton of market share to iGarbage.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions
I loved his "don't sweat it, bro" presentation last month
All the RIM employees getting their jobs cut probably felt a lot better afterwards.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
BS Alert :P
I know that was a running joke, but it’s no longer funny.
And he did get is fair share of boos here, which I don’t understand. Frankly, I think fans here were just disappointed to see him go. He was the first superstar who we lost here, and sadly it became a trend.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Giving you the benefit of the doubt
I can only speak to how he behaved while a member of the Sharks. He was nothing but professional and courteous here. And nothing in his play to complain about, other than the bad stroke of luck when it came to injuries.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
That's easy to believe
He was that way in Ottawa until THE TRADE. I was never a fan of his one-dimensional game, but sometimes the best defense is a good offense, and 50 goals earns a lot of leeway.
He seems like a decent enough guy to me, as long as he’s not faced with adversity. I don’t dislike him so much that I’d spit in his face or anything—like you said, he’s got the right to choose where he wants to be. I just wish he had been willing to make the same commitment to the team that they had made to him.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
He actually developed a defensive game here!
Granted he still wasn’t anywhere near Selke material, but I digress. He may have come to grips with what his injuries had limited him to doing offensively and decided to bear down a bit more defensively. He made a few plays in the playoffs that drew raves from announcers and color analysts because he back-checked like crazy to break plays up in his own zone.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
I think that was the most frustrating part of it for me
He was clearly capable of playing defensively. It was his backchecking that led to the Daniel Alfredsson scoring the goal that sent Ottawa to the finals.
No one was asking him to be a Selke contender—just to play responsibly in all three ends. Instead, what we got was him creeping towards the blueline hoping to be sprung for a breakaway or skating in a circle tapping the ice for a one-timer. That kind of play was more infuriating on the nights when we lost.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
“All three ends”
hehe
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Hockey is played on a triangle, right?
I’M NOT EVEN CANADIAN
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Exactly
That’s why the NTC exists…God forbid someone actually use it.
They can’t all be Brian Campbells and waive it to go play for crappy teams like Florida…but then again, i did just throw 10 on them for the cup next year…
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
Havlat not suited for a checking role?
Remember the wrecking crew on first lines he and Bolland were with the Hawks. I don’t imagine you’ll use him that way but that’s how he became Jesus Havlat Christ.
Playoffs and Heatley
Not only did Heatley not produce in the playoffs or big game situations, he was a liability and took some stupid penalties, regardless whether he was injured or not.
FTF, it would be nice to see how their playoff stats compare…
Heatley has great playoff stats, just not with the Sharks.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Still don't like it, unless something else is coming
If we do make other moves that help ice a complete all-around team- great. Right now we have some big holes once again.
If we don’t- this trade is a loss. We just created a big hole in our lineup. Havlat is a better replacement for Setoguchi. That’s great, so we upgraded there. But now we have a huge huge hole with the loss of Heatley. You replace Seto, but now you need to replace somewhere between 30-40 goals, a player the other team had to match up against, a first line all world winger, and about 40-50 assists. Wow. Burns is immensely valuable, but he doesn’t make up for that. That’s why Burns was traded for Seto and not Heatley- D-men don’t get traded for world class wingers.
by Ronnibily on Jul 4, 2011 9:14 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
+1
That’s what I’m thinking, I’m not nearly as stoked on this as some people seem to be. But again time will tell, DW is very good at trading players before they take a nose dive off the face of the hockey planet (cheech). I don’t think this is going to happen with heater at all but maybe enough to make Havlat for him a wash. I’m definitely nervous though.
Well said...
This is where I sit.
Personally, I think this could end up being among the worst trades in the history of the Sharks…unless we do something awesome due to the new cap space. Although, the cap space we gained really isn’t all that much. You don’t give up elite goal scorers for worse players, straight up. You just don’t do that.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 4, 2011 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions
Yep.
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions
well, sometimes you might..
purely hypothetical and hyperbolic to make a point:
if you had 14 forwards and 4 d-men on the ice, you would def., I think, trade one of those forwards for a d-man, even if the d-man was a “worse” player.
Granted, this scenario isn’t obvious like the imaginary one above, but it may be a diff. of degree. I think, at least, it’s debatable (either way). Havlat is faster, and is, apparently, a better two way player. Heatley is a better scorer. In the brief space of time when niether player is a part of SJ, which need is greater (you might factor in cap space to the “equation”)?
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
He just said that Havlat's a replacement for Seto. I tend to agree in the short term (next 2-3 years)
So, do you trade Heatley for Burns? I do, 11 times out of 10. D-men are more valuable than wingers.
by Kazoonole on Jul 4, 2011 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
He's been above-average in San Jose.
Above average doesn’t justify the highest cap hit on the roster, and he’s been invisible since the 2007 Eastern Conference Semifinals when it comes to goal scoring in the playoffs, for whatever reason. 7 goals in his last 46 playoff games.
For whatever reason?
Let me give you a few for the last 2 years…
-BROKEN HAND
-TORN GROIN
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I said last 2 years....
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
You'd pay top dollar for a Lamborghini, sure. But what if your Lambo turned out to be a lemon?
Shoulda got the Carfax report.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Define worse. Heatley was better at scoring goals. Havlat is better at a host of other things. Having Havlat makes the Sharks harder to play against because he’s faster, plays better defense, and can spend more effective time on the PK than Heater could. Besides, Heatley dropped to 26, albeit injury riddled, goals. It is very reasonable to think that Havlat can match 26 goals on JT’s wing, and play better D, and spend effective time on the PK, etc… AND we get 2.5 mil in cap space. Bro, what’s not to like about this trade?
One year of injuries
DOESN’T MAKE IT AN ANNUAL THING!
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Jul 4, 2011 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
THANK YOU!
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Sorry but its 2 years of injuries...
But who’s counting
5 goals in 32 playoff games
does not a 7.5 million dollar player make.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
He scored 39 goals while injured? Fuck… we really did get screwed.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Jul 4, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
yep
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Wasn't injured that whole season....
He tore his groin at the end of the regular season, which is why he couldn’t produce in the playoffs in the 2009-10 year.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Groin in the first year.
Hand in the second year.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Jul 4, 2011 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions
Let's see how many he gets playing with Mikko Koivu and Cal Clutterbuck.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Oh,
Don’t forget Staubitz. Always Staubitz.
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
by DiscoSemenov on Jul 4, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Assuming he's healthy..
It should easily be over 40…
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 4, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Mikko Koivu is an absolute money centerman, one of the most elite players in the League at pushing the play in the right direction. He’s more than capable of helping set the table for Heatley.
He may not be Joe Thornton, but he’s a great player.
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Product of his surroundings, Plank.
If Koivu’s not holding his hand every shift, which he won’t, what then?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
there may still be holes
but I’m not sure the loss of Heatley is one of those holes. There is still a good top 6… maybe with a slightly different skill set now, and new looks, etc. Losing a point producer only creates a hole if you don’t have very many point producers left on the team… IMO.
The “holes” to me still seem to be in the bottom 6.
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
Im right here with you
I still think this move makes us a worse team no matter what we really do with that cap space. We still had like 4m in cap space before this deal, is 6 really that much more? Its not like that extra 2m can really net us somebody that can fill the void that heatley left.
My thinking is that
we wont need those 40-50 assists and those 30 goals in the regular season, because i think that we are a much better defensive team today than we were before the 2 trades. Yes, it is likely that we will not cut down our goals against by the 60 that Heatley helped us get, but we will cut it down significantly icing a better defensive team. Look at it in that regard, and it is not that bad of a move at all.
Head to Head
We need a faceoff crunch performer to replace the skills of Malhotra and Nichol over the last 2 years. Losing defensive zone faceoffs killed us in the playoffs.
I was wondering...
Could the Sharks have traded Heatley for Burns? That way we could have kept Seto, Coyle and the 1st round and acquire more cap space. Obviously, we won’t ever know if either team would be down for a trade like that but does that at all sound realistic?
Don’t ever wrestle with a pig. You’ll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it.
1 Cor 13:13
I don’t know. I think a lot of managers would argue that defensemen are more valuable, so it’s all how you rate Burns. I personally think he’s very close to being a No. 1 defenseman.
So: top-line winger for a top-pairing defenseman (who is younger and has more upside)? If we can re-sign Burns, I say sure.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
trade analysis aside
I had nothing against Heatley. I wish him well, and will miss him (to a certain extent, but probably not as much as I will miss Seto—I wish him success and a good career). That said, I’m cautiously optimistic about the trade(s).
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
This seems like an excessive way
To make Jumbo the highest paid player on the team.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Now that I've slept on this trade...
I like it a little less than I did last night :/ I was expecting big things from a healthy Heatley this year. Oh well, if I see him live this year I’m going to cheer him on big time.
Healthy Heatley is an oxymoron at this point.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions
Stop hitting on me.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Rejected.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions
That or a restraining order.
GO SHARKS!
by jMoneyBrah on Jul 4, 2011 10:46 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I LOVE DOUG WILSON.
Totally platonic, brah.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions
My main question is this
when its the 3rd period will these guys not choke?
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
I'd say the odds of that are lower with these new guys on the team
Of course it might be less likely for us to have built up a big lead, but that’s another story.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
I'll take it
you only need to win by 1 goal
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
16
The win that really counts requires at least 16 goals, all in postseason, by which time Heatley will have thoroughly broken himself again.
Actually I don't know if that works
Because if you win by 2 goals in 1 game then you would need 15 more goals not 14.
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
missed a word
damn
"Hi my name is Cliff Harris and I am here to lock [site decorum] down" - Cliff Harris introduction at his Freshman Orientation
Reporter : "What do you remember about the BCS title game"
Cliff Harris: "That we lost"
First Fear the fin post!
First post! Woot! I’m here all the time but decided to post. love this site and fans. Just wanted to say once we lost Seto’s speed we had to change something. And heaters playoff numbers arent fantastic. Good luck to heatley. Great hockey guy.
After reading the 1000 comment FanShot yesterday and now this thread...
my brain hurts and I want to stop thinking about this trade…
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
Here, let me help you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZdmqNAYkmI
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Hahaha. You’re ridiculous man, glad to see you around again.
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Those guys aren't doing guitar right.
Seriously, not even the right genre.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
With Heatley, I'll always remember...
the ridiculous amount of times he took that ginormous slapshot and never score with it. I can only recall maybe once or twice that shot actually working.
At least we can still have an HTML line
Not sure I like this. We just lost one of the best goal scorers in the league. And I’m not really sure this makes us better statistically.
Well, I’m definitely shocked. But this is a good opportunity for both guys I guess. Heater goes to a team that has actually made itself quite good over the past few weeks (thanks to the Sharks), and Havlat to a Sharks team that has made itself better (!) over the past few weeks (thanks to the Wild).
I wish Heater the best. He was an ex-Thrasher, so it really sucks to see him go. Really bad. And I just liked him, I guess. It’s going to suck to not have Seto AND Heatley on this team this coming year.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I can't see the Sharks spending to the cap this year.
They’ll need the room to re-sign Burns and Couture. If they take on longer term deals with UFAs or guys that shake loose from their teams because of cap concerns, they’ll be faced with having to jettison a core guy (Clowe, for instance) or two later on.
I support this because now Seto actually knows someone on his team
Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Jul 4, 2011 10:51 AM PDT reply actions
Not appreciating Heatley
In his first year with the team:
He was 8th in the NHL in goals.
15th in points
2nd in PP goals
This is not slightly over average.
He followed that up with a down year because of a broken hand.
Come on guys.
by Ronnibily on Jul 4, 2011 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
this
Waffles, Digimon, Setoguchi. <3
STALOCK GET A ROBOT LEG OR SOMETHING AND COME BACK~WE NEED SOME LOCK STOCK STALOCK HERE!!
by YeahTommyB4ZGermansGetThere on Jul 4, 2011 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions
No denying that
But A) his hand wasn’t broken all year, and B) there’s more to success than scoring goals.
The Sharks aren’t exactly hard-up for offense, so what’s wrong with trying to become a more complete team? It’s no indictment against Heater, it’s just a matter of fit.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
SHUT UP WITH YOUR LOGIC SMARTYPANTS
HEATLEY WILL ALWAYS BE MY ONE TRUE LOVE
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did you watch the playoffs?
The Sharks definitely looked to be struggling for timely offense…especially against Divecouver, who started the worst goalie we saw all playoffs.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
Member of FearTheFin's Mod Squad and The Knights Who Say NI-emi...
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 4, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions
That’s what’s getting me too. We’ve had issues on both the scoring and defensive fronts in the playoffs. I appreciate that DW is trying to fix the more serious problem but we can’t sacrifice all our offense for defense. I was fine for giving up Seto because Burns is awesome and Seto was inconsistent but Heatley…
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Jul 4, 2011 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s not like DW is giving up all our offense here. Look, we’re much better from the back-end offensively with Burns, and it’s not like Havlat is a bum. Our top two lines still rival any in the league.
If anything, this trade will allow us to hopefully pick up someone to help our third line still compete offensively…which might not have happened without the trade.
And the other thing is, the fact that the Sharks struggled both offensively and defensively shows that the team isn’t complete. So what’s wrong with trying to remedy that bigger issue?
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
A broken hand with 8 games left in the regular season...
… doesn’t excuse a drop in scoring for the whole year!
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Heatley was playing with a groin issue all year— he had surgery last offseason and never fully recovered throughout the year. Hence his drop in skating ability.
If that’s an issue going forward for him as a player then San Jose made a beauty move in dumping a nearly immovable contract when they could still get value for him, that’s a huge win. But if Heatley returns to form as an elite goal scorer then this is a risky deal that is a loss.
Time will tell!
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Plank...
what do you think about Havlat’s history of injuries as well? Does that worry you at all?
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm asking this legitimately, btw
not attacking anything. It just jumped out at me when I was looking up Havlat’s stats.
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
Wrote about it down here. It’s a concern of course, but considering he has been largely injury free for the last three seasons, I don’t see it as a huge problem. He should be fine.
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Oh geez....
totally missed that! Sorry.
Thanks :)
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
No
Old, slow and done IMO.
If the Sharks want to get over the hump and win it all. They have to move forward and not look back into the past to former fan favorites.
by 420Sharksfan on Jul 4, 2011 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions
resigning them does not affect this upcoming season's cap
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
"Take a deep breath sometimes, a break, and play some hockey. Hockey is a great way to take a pause from day-to-day hard work." -- Lt Gen. D.H. Huntoon Jr. (paraphrased)
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No
but now you don’t have to worry about picking and choosing who you’re going to keep and drop in order to make room for them. You can set your roster for this year and resign them for next year much easier. We’re gonna need a lot of room since bruns and couture will get big raises
BLEED TEAL
I'm still in shock
over the Seto trade and now this happens. At first glance this seems to be a pretty lopsided trade in Minnesota’s favor but I’m going to put my faith in DW and hope he knows what he’s doing. How are we gonna replace the 30-40 goals Heatley was capable of? I know he only scored 26 (?) last year but he put up similar numbers to a healthy Havlat. Not to mention Havlat seems to be made of glass and has had his injury problems himself. With some extra cap space I’m hoping DW is setting up for something bigger.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
Havlat’s injury issues, while not a thing of the past obviously, have become much better in recent years. He’s been very healthy over the last three seasons and is looking to be much more durable in that regard. I’m not too concerned about him there.
Lost in this discussion is how good Havlat is as a player. Heatley is a better forward in my opinion, but Havlat is a really good player. The Sharks may have lost in terms of a talent for talent swap (where Heatley > Havlat in my eyes), but it’s not like the Sharks got skunked and gave up futures. Havlat is a guy who can help them win in the here and now and will be a big factor offensively and defensively for the team.
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Havlat’s no slouch, that’s for sure. And he brings a lot speed which has been noticeably missing for the Sharks (esp. against Chi and Van). But Heatley is still an elite player and it definitely hurts our offense. I’m hoping for the best and that the cap space remaining will fill any holes remaining.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Jul 4, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
I have a feeling this is what is going through DW's mind
Except a C-4 instead of a nuke.
Also, as Meg pointed, DW is great at predicting player’s downturns, so for now, I’m a wait and see.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
Another way to look at it...
We made the WCF last year while Heatley produced 64 points (26G). One would expect Havlat to basically match that level of production, which means we should be no worse for the wear relative to yesterday before this trade happened.
by Rhapsody in Teal on Jul 4, 2011 11:36 AM PDT reply actions
So what third/fourth line winger do you guys want?
Is Langenbrunner still the popular option aroud here?
I’m kind of partial to Mittens myself, I don’t think we have enough old Minnesota players on our team.
It feels weird trying to improve our team by canabalizing a non-playoff team.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Also, I'm for Mittens.
Him and Pickles would be adorable together. I don’t know how Wingels would ever stop giggling.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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I don't know, Minnesota has made some pretty good pick ups. The NHL could really be shaken up this season.
A lot of teams that have a reputation of not being good could make the playoffs this season.
I'm warning you! I have ADHD and I know how to use it!!!
Good job Giants, now win 3 more world series titles and then you just might be worthy of being mentioned in the same league as the A's.
THAT IS NABOKOV IN NET NOT NITTYMAKISHUTUP!!!!!!!!!!
San Jose: Being Kept save from ferocious enemies by the Sharks and Earthquakes since 91 and 96.
by Diamondback15 on Jul 4, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Like the Panthers! They really upgraded themselves this offseason
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Jul 4, 2011 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I still don’t think they’re a playoff team. Everything they gained in personnel is offset by losing the guy that got them all their wins last year (Vokoun) to a division rival.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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I forgot about the Vokoun thing. I can’t believe he signed for 1.5 million. Niitty makes more than that for chewing on his jersey.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Jul 4, 2011 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions
I just said this on twitter, but...
I’d take Vokoun on that contract over EVERY SINGLE GOALTENDER IN THE WORLD.
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I think it’s because he’s nearing the end of his career, and he really wanted to play for a contender.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Then why'd he sign with Washington?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Contender?
With him there they might be the favorites, in my opinion.
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Vokoun, a lot like Nabby last year, mis-read the goalie market. He said he though he’d get “more offers” and that by the 2nd day, there wasn’t anyone in need of a starting goalie – his camp got in touch with the Caps and that’s all that they could/would pay him. Just so happens to be a very good situation for him.
But... he's Tomas Vokoun!
I don’t think there’s a team in the league that wouldn’t improve with him signed for less than $2 mil.
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Definitely – but there weren’t many teams that wanted to take him on at the $$ he was wanting. Most of the teams that needed goaltending were either close to the cap teams or budget teams (Tampa, Phx, Col).
And the teams that might want him already have starting / back up goalies signed. I don’t think he was willing to sign for that $$ on FA day 1.
Still, I'd MAKE room on day 2 to get him for anything under $4 mil.
Maybe that’s why I’m not a GM, but hey, I did win the FTF Fantasy League!!! hahah
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Teams that went with "cheap" or "cheaper" goaltending to start 2011
San Jose
Chicago
Tampa Bay
Dallas
Philadelphia
NYI
Didn’t really work out for most of these teams the way they hoped.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Fine, then sign him to a 10 year $60 mil contract.
Problem solved.
The point I was making is that Vokoun should not be a cheap goaltender. He should be very heavily compensated. The goaltenders on those teams, not so much.
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
He shouldn't be
But this whole “market correction” was driven by “Cheap” goaltending in 2010 driving teams into the final rounds of the playoffs.
It neglected the fact that each of those “cheap” goaltenders was protected by pretty elite defenseman (Keith and Seabrook in Chicago, Pronger in Philadelphia, Hall Gill in Montreal). Everyone went out and put money into defense, and left themselves tight against the cap with the goalie market saturated. Hence, you see this bargain for Vokoun.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Of those 2
San Jose – Probably MADE the playoffs because of their cheap goaltending, but PROGRESSED in the playoffs in spite of it
Tampa Bay – Had to ditch both of their cheap goaltenders and acquire Dwayne Roloson to get them going agian
Mixed bag to say the least.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I know right? I mean we could potentially have 4 ex-Wild players on our team next season. Burns, Havlat, Antti Mietinen, and John Madden.
That would be just plain weird…
Then, they go out and sign Nichol and Wellwood.
Lol. I still think Wellwood would be a decent option for our 3rd line…
Go Sharks!
At least Havlat is younger....
By a few months…
Randy Hahn - "The Man With The Big Butt - Patrick Marleau - we like him and we cannot lie..."
-- I am Ryane Clowe (tee hee)
I read some quotes on Puck Daddy. He said something to the affect that he knew this was a possibility and that he’ll play wherever Minn. needs him..blah blah blah. Typical hockey player stuff
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Jul 4, 2011 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions
He also stated he didn’t expect this at all… that his post season talks with Sharks management didn’t reflect anything on a possible trade. Said he wishes he could prove people wrong after a season like he had last year, etc etc.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
Find me on Twitter @njahoda
In the minority apparently
I, for one, am not happy about this trade. While I think Martin Havlat is a good player, I don’t think that he’s better than Heatley. Heatley had ONE BAD YEAR. Saying he never “fit” with the Sharks seems odd when the guys scored 82 points in 82 games in his first year. A never healed groin injury and a broken hand towards the end of the season were a lot to blame for Heatley’s decline. The guy still put up 64 points… mainly WITHOUT Thornton.
I think a lot of people wanted to see Heatley go because… sorry but I compare this to the people that every year have a month where it’s “Trade Marleau” time. Marleau goes through a slump and everyone wants to dump on him and trade him, etc and lo and behold, he scores a couple goals and everyone loves him all over again. Bay Area fans are so quick to throw someone off the island as soon as they aren’t doing what they want regardless of injury or anything else.
I don’t think the Sharks are a better team with Havlat instead of Heatley. I’ll tell you right now that with Seto and Heatley gone, there’s 55-65 goals gone out of the door. Is Havlat going to recover that?
If DW has another trade in mind, when who are the pieces that will go? Are any of you willing to give up Clowe? Pavelski? I’m not. I’m guessing most of you aren’t either.
I wish Dany nothing but the best. He worked hard and it sucks he couldn’t have another year to prove everyone wrong. I don’t see Minnesota being the place for him to flourish but we’ll see. I appreciate everything he’s done for this team.
Welcome Martin Havlat to San Jose. Can’t wait to see what you can bring.
Waiting for the Cup to come to SJ since 1991...
GO SHARKS!
Find me on Twitter @njahoda
by winthecupsj on Jul 4, 2011 12:02 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Summed up my feelings well
I love Dany Heatley for his fantastic acting chops and his permanently dilated pupil.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Jul 4, 2011 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions
i think you're in the majority
i’m not sure anyone is claming that havlat is better than heatley. I think a lot of people are trying to look on the bright side and hoping the team will improve overall (thanks to chemsitry/defense), even if the individual talent swap is a loss for the Sharks.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions
You forgot to add we gave up 5 playoff goals
in 32 games.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
The Sharks are a much better team defensively now
so we technically shouldn’t need to “make-up” 55-65 goals. Year in and year out, we get beat by better defensive teams. It’s a sports cliche, but defense wins championships. By having to score 3-4 goals a night, it just puts too much pressure on your offensive. Run into a hot goalie like Thomas, and you’re screwed. The Sharks have to be able to win those ugly 1-0 and 2-1 playoff games.
+1
and not give up third period leads, which comes down to shoring up the D.
by sharksfanwithajd on Jul 4, 2011 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Not sure Havlat is a lesser player than Heatley
Let’s be honest here – Martin Havlat has produced great numbers considering that he’s mostly been used in a second-line role. When he was a Blackhawk and the Sharks played them, Havlat was a force on the ice. Who’s to say that he doesn’t explode when playing with Thornton??
I like the flexibility this deal gives the team, from more cap space to better defense\speed. These are things that need to be considered when judging the trade as a whole.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
I’m not betting on Havlat producing at a clip better than a PPG, which Heater was able to do pretty consistently until last year.
The bottom line is that if both players perform up to their potential, Heater is a 50G/50A guy and a power-play weapon, and Havlat is a 35G/45A guy, with better defensive play. But as a Shark Heatley was only occasionally the game-changing player he was in Atlanta and Ottawa at his peak, mostly due to injuries.
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There is a lot of assuming that Heatley's struggles are purely due to injury
Heatley certainly used to be one of the top goal scorers, but there have only been 18 guys IN HISTORY who have scored more than 40 goals after their 30th birthday. Let’s be honest, even if Heatley is healthy all that can be expected is 30-35 goals, with a very real chance of him having a career like Kieth Tkachuk, who never scored more than 30 goals after age 31. Sure, it’s possible he could pull a Mark Messier and score 47 goals at age 35, but that is a huge gamble.
I liked Heatley and hope nothing but the best for him and Seto (except against the Sharks). And I think San Jose fans have constantly failed to give Dany Heatley his due as far as his effectiveness as a 2-way player and what he brought as a penalty killer (he played over a minute a game on the PK, and was SJ’s most effective guy). But I have a feeling that this year will see Havlat and Heatley have similar seasons, with Havlat outperforming Heatley the remainder of their careers based on their skill sets.
by ruben398 on Jul 4, 2011 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don’t see Heatley scoring 40+ goals in Minnesota… who will center him? They are a trap based team. Not the sort of team Heatley nor Setoguchi is used to.
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I could see 40-45 goals from Heatley on Koivu’s wing. Koivu is a very, very good player.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 5, 2011 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions
I could see 40+ goals from Heater. I could also see 20 or so, most of them on the power-play, if he’s still struggling with injuries and continues to lose footspeed.
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I kinda like it...
Now, like has been mentioned before the caliber of players that Havlat played with vs What Heater played with are way different. I think that what Havlat did with average to good players was commendable. If Heater only has a SLIGHT edge in production carreer wise than Havlat has, look at their last two years only. Danny played with world class players and Havlat played with non playoff caliber players. That makes a HUGE difference. I like the trade personally and I think itll be good for the locker room to bring in another TEAM FIRST guy. Too many chiefs and not enough indians is what we had in our locker room.
Gunna miss the hell outta Seto though. Cant stand the way things went down, but overall I think the trades with the Wild will make us a better team.
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by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 12:30 PM PDT reply actions
My makeup is a mess.
You’re not being very sensitive to mine.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 12:37 PM PDT reply actions
PPG
Just did a quick and dirty calculation for the past two years.
Heatley + Seto= 304GP, 107G, 116A, 223P for a 0.733 PPG average
Havlat + Burns= 278GP, 60G, 122A, 189P for a 0.680 PPG average
I would have to say that a number #1-2 D-man + 2.5 Million in cap space in exchange for half a point less per game is not a bad deal at all.
Bleed Teal... Right Now I am puking it - Shadrack (1/14/11)
what happens if you consider that the 2.5 million is what paid for Handzus?
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
the PPG goes down significantly to 0.592, but the total points for Burns+Havlat+Handzus is 261 vs the 223 for Heatley and Seto
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I suppose it’s harder to keep a high average when you start adding in more players, especially non-top-6 ones
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
very true, but that actually reinforces how good this trade could be. You are comparing 2 top six forwards (both of whom experienced the JT effect at some point) with 1 top six forward and a defenseman and you are only losing 4 points per season
Bleed Teal... Right Now I am puking it - Shadrack (1/14/11)
i know it’s starting to become meaningless but just for kicks i did some calcs myself of our total losses vs. total gains. White had 161 GP with 74 pts in the last two seasons. Which means:
Players we lost: 0.639 PPG avg.
Players we gained: 0.592 PPG avg.
Difference: 0.047 PPG (even a smaller difference than before, ~3.85 points per season)
This might be pointless without including Mayers and Nichol + whoever we end up signing, but I guess i don’t feel like doing that now!
except that he happens to cost EXACTLY the same as the money that was shed by the swap
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions
anyway it’s worth analyzing the total of what we gained vs. what we lost. Although of course, I think we come out on the losing end when you also factor in the loss of White. So it doesn’t tell the whole story.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
oh, lol, I like Handzus, but I was thinking this gave us a more space to pursue extra forward depth this year and give us more space to sign Burns before he hits the free agent market next year.
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
it does, but in a way it also gives us the space to do that in addition to handzus, rather than just pursuing him.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed, but...
To play devil’s advocate, we did send more assets than just those players.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Assets who have a combined:
0 NHL games played
0 goals
0 assists
None of those assets were going to contribute to the Sharks for at least 3 years, and we’re looking to win NOW.
That has ZERO bearing on the trade...
Assets are assets, regardless of NHL production.
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
not exactly, with a team in the Sharks situation, non-producing assets are arguably useless
by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions
And this comparison is a little unfair
While the Wild do have their fair share of talent (Koivu is a badass), that’s a team that is clearly offensively challenged.
Burns actually had more points than Seto did last year. Though Burns’ numbers may decrease this year, and that’s an entirely good thing.
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What about the draft picks in the Seto-Burns deal?
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After a night to sleep on it
I’m okay with the trade. We lost goal scoring, but gained more defensive accountability.
Assuming, healthwise, Heatley is on a downswing and Havlat is on an upswing, we do okay there too.
And as BillytheSid pointed out, we managed to move what was a virtually unmoveable contract.
The 4 years and NTC of Havlat’s contract aren’t ideal, but $2.5M/yr in cap space would be enough for a Manny Malhotra contract.
I still don’t quite like to look of the lower lines just yet. I’m a huge supporter of Torrey Mitchell and a believer in Benn Ferriero, and concur that Jamie McGinn could be a contributor given a full season with the big club. But if we used the cap space to upgrade these players, or acquire more Worcester prospects to help restock down there, I’m not opposed.
All the scouting reports say that Havlat is a good 3 zone player, something you keep hearing in regards now to Joe, Couture and Pavelski. Having 4 legit 3 zone playmakers in the top 6 seems pretty good.
Hopefully, this helps the team become more of a “go to the net” type of team, encouraging more puck movement, and less “hold the puck waiting for the D to drop off” type of team.
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I agree. I think we will see more tick tack toe type passes that Martin has shown throughout his career in Minnesota. I think the tempo of the power play with increase having Havlat and Burns out there.
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by DrewRemendaRogaine on Jul 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Oh God.
This seems so familiar. Be gentle, Elvis.
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I won't take the bait
But hey, if he plays with Thornton AND Havlat, there’s no reason Patty can’t rediscover his defensive game again. Dude made Team Canada by being one of the most complete players in the league that season.
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Changing signatures is for suckers.
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One other angle to this
Slow offensive players don’t fare as well into their 30s compared to guys with speed. Havlat has wheels and a gear or two that Heater never had when he was a 100 point player, much less post-groin injury.
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Come on guys
a top 6 forward for a top 6 forward, while recouping 2.5m and not being hamstrung with an extremely long contract. This is more money to sign Burns long term and acquire another top 9 forward this year. Dany had two disappointing season in SJ, and DW instantly deals his biggest contract.
love this trade.
Oh, so that's where you edit your signature
Yeah this is exactly how I see it.
I don’t know why everyone’s dreaming about the 50 goal scoring Heatley. Obviously Heatley has some injury issues and that 50 goal scorer we wanted is not the guy we we’re gonna get next season.
Most importantly, you gotta trust that DW knows far better than any of us about what’s going on with Heatley. DW is the guy who initially traded for him, so if he thought for a second that Heatley would be healthy next season and would return to scoring 39+ goals, he wouldn’t have traded him.
So taking that into consideration you gotta think that this is a very good trade. Havlat is a playoff performer, he’s much much faster than heatley, better defensively, and he’ll likely put up career numbers playing anywhere in our top 6.
I understand people dreaming of the 50 goal Heatley, I think most Sharks fans have been doing that since he was traded here.
One thing I disagree with is that if DW knows Heatley is healthy that he wouldn’t have traded him – I think even then DW makes this deal.
The flaws on the Sharks have been exposed two post seasons in a row and DW is fixing them position by position. Burns is a top tier D-man who will help at both ends of the ice and in all situations, a HUGE upgrade to White.
What Heater’s good at is putting up points, not much else. His PK numbers were decent but that’s really not where he should be playing. The Sharks have plenty of forwards who will put up points, what they didn’t have was guys who can skate. Havlat is a downgrade in offense but an upgrade in speed, puck control, two way play and a bit cheaper.
Where the Sharks will be better this season with the addition of Burns & Havlat (and Handzus) is at 5×5 hockey and the PK. And when you look at the previous playoffs, that’s where the Sharks failed.
Wait, how was his first year a disappointment?
by Ronnibily on Jul 5, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Havlat is signed for one more year than Heatley.
by Ronnibily on Jul 5, 2011 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its hard to compare Havlat to Heatley's offensive abiltiy, but...
I’m not sure many of you have watched him play. He brings the speed and 3 zone play that Heater was lacking. He wants to play on a playoff team and now he has the chance too do so. I think many people are going to be surprised once you see him play with our top 6.
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by DrewRemendaRogaine on Jul 4, 2011 12:52 PM PDT reply actions
As I recall
he played with the BlackCocks for a wee bit and then was subsequently traded the year before they won the cup.
Ergo, he was the tumor that kept them from winning the cup. Duh.
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
I know this might sound crazy
But for comparison purposes, why not compare havlat’s stats while playing next to Thornton/Marleau, instead of the pudwhackers he was stuck with in Minny?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 12:56 PM PDT reply actions
but that would mean we would have to wait to reserve judgement on the trade and why do something reasonable like that when we can wildly speculate?
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I have no doubt his production increases
Putting good players together generally works out.
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They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
i think havlat is a little more geared to work on a strong line too
unlike heatley whom didn’t get much out of the whole “set you up with an empty net” thing.
The concensus is there's no pressure for Heatley to succeed, because Minnesota sucks.
But it can also be preceived that Havlat’s life will geta whole shitload easier where other players can carry him, instead of him doing all the work.
Child bearing hips comments, welcome.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
haha totally
i think this creates an interesting opportunity for havlat, and he seems like the kind of guy that’s going to work his ass off for it. obviously we don’t know the timing of heatley’s injuries but he really didn’t put up the effort given the opportunity by in large.
this being said, i’ve never been much of a heatley fan. except for maybe after he got that hat trick his first game in SJ. seriously, that was pretty awesome. too bad it was pretty much downhill from there.
I'll call it now.
Havlat gets AT LEAST 30 this year.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I remember
Everybody thinking Heater would get 60 when he got here.
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Mostly a repost from the reaction thread, but
Again, I don’t agree at all with the notion that now the Sharks are hurting for goal-scoring.
Even after losing Seto and Heatley, the Sharks still have:
Two 30-goal scorers:
Patty Marleau
Logan Couture
Four 20-goal scorers:
Pavelski
Clowe
Havlat
Thornton
And added Brent Burns who’s nearly a 20-goal scorer as a DEFENSEMAN, and Handzus who’s good for 12-15 goals a year.
As I mentioned in the other thread, Seto and Heater last year scored a combined 48 goals and were huge defensive liabilities. The Sharks replaced them with Havlat, Burns, and Handzus who combined for 51 goals last season and are HUGE defensive upgrades. In summary, the Sharks actually had a net GAIN in goal scoring, while at the same time significantly improving defensively.
In terms of the Power Play, yes Heatley was great. The #1 unit lost Heatley, but added BRENT BURNS, who instantly becomes the greatest threat from the point since Rob Blake and Martin Havlat who is a great skater, scorer and playmaker in his own right. Also, the #2 PP unit improves with Joe Pavelski moving down and able to play his natural forward position.
Heatley is a great player, WHEN he’s healthy. But the facts are: he’s had 2 consecutive seasons where his production has been significantly impacted by injuries. People who don’t like this trade say “But just think of how good Heatley would be if he was healthy!” That’s all well and good to imagine, but hoping doesn’t bring championships. How long do the Sharks stare at that 7.5 MM cap hit hoping for Heatley to be healthy for a full year?? How many years of him trending down before that 7.5 MM becomes a noose around our necks that NOBODY wants? Having 39 goals a year ago is probably the ONLY reason we were even able to GET a guy like Havlat in return.
by BillytheSid on Jul 4, 2011 1:06 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
i think courture's only going to get better this year too
can’t wait to see that kid put it into 4th gear.
not to mention, pavelski underperformed to some degree last year. i think he could really break out this year.
Pavelski spent much time on the third line
So he’ll get his second line shot this year, and if he underperforms……
Is there anyone in minnesota we want for pavelski?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
i'm sure a lot of teams looked at that confused
pavelski is way to good to be playing 3rd line and that surely effected his numbers. in that, i hope he’s in a better situation next year and can produce more for the team number-wise.
I disagree that Pavelski underperformed.
I’ll grant that he probably didn’t perform to the expectations some fans had of him, which may have been somewhat unrealistic.
His still posted his best year as a pro, while skating much of the year with Torrey Mitchell, Kyle Wellwood and Worcester plugs. Yes, there were periods where he was streaky (notably right after his son was born and for a bit after he returned from an injury other players later commented was nagging at him for a good chunk of the year) and he probably could have scored more, but he had 66 points in 74 games on the 3rd line with teammates who barely ever shoot.
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Pavs had some real bad luck putting the puck in the net at the beginning of this year.
But still had his best regular season, probably. That’s scary (in a very good way). I think he will have a big breakout this year. Possibly 80 points if playing top 6.
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How many years of him trending down before that 7.5 MM becomes a noose around our necks that NOBODY wants?
I was surprised we offloaded him now.
Playoffs!?
I think this move is in part a reaction (in a good way, not the knee-jerk variety) to the team that is having their way with Lord Stanley at the moment. Which team had more skill-players and goal scorers with identical sets of genes? Who had more character, toughness, and wins in that series?
I think Havlat for Heater makes more sense for when the games matter most. Also there is the matter of durability. It seems like the injury bug can be a tough one to shake, especially at the tail end of the season.
exactly
From all the talk here, you’d think Doug Wilson’s main priority should be the regular season, where the Sharks have done just-fine-thank-you for a few years now. We need a team that is collectively healthy and firing on all cylinders come April. If that means trimming back the top six a bit so we can have a solid D corps and a third and fourth line in regular rotation all season, so be it.
I know right? Everyone keeps talking about the one 39 goal season Heatley had here, but they forget that Heatley only scored 5 goals for us in the 32 games that mattered (PLAYOFF GAMES, in case you didn’t catch on).
The regular season matters too
Heatley was injured both playoffs. That’s unfortunate, but in no way indicates a trend.
He’s one of the most talented guys in the league, and there’s just no simple way to recover from the trade. Playoff numbers are important, sure. But there’s a lot of talent that the Sharks lost in this trade… and there’s really no arguing against that.
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A playoff team.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Predators?
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
*Blackhawks
Fixed it for ya, assuming it was a 2011 playoff reference.
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How bout the talent that we lost in the Cheechoo trade? Not many people seem to be missing his 52 goal scoring talents…
by Khaaz on Jul 4, 2011 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
....
wut.
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by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
The point is that Cheech was not a 52 goal scorer anymore due to a combination of injuries and poor skating ability, so who it doesn’t matter how good he used to be. Heatley has similar issues so maybe this is just DW selling high before his value drops as far as Cheechoo’s did.
Oh, yeah, I agree.
We’re never going to see Atlanta Heater again.
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by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ottawa does.
xD
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That is COMPLETELY different
This is what happened to Cheechoo: 28-56-37-23-12
There was a great increase, and while the 56 was definitely a career year, that 37 showed he was definitely talented. But then he dropped to 23 and 12. There was a clear decline there. He then went on to score 5 the next year in Ottawa.
Heatley went 50-50-41-39 with Ottawa. He then went 39-26. That may be a downward trend, but I’m not sure he’s going to exactly be hitting 12 anytime soon (unless he misses most of the season).
Regardless, he definitely has more talent than Cheechoo did. And in terms of missing Cheech’s goals? Well, we got Heater in return… which is an upgrade.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
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RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
So where do we go from here?
Personally I wish this trade didn’t go down, but it did…
What are peoples REALISTIC opinions of what move(s) would make us strongest going into next year?
Realistic?
Sign Fredrik Sjostrom for around 700k and stick him on the 4th line as a defensive minded, penalty killing, groovy dude.
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
How groovy are we talking here?
UP THE PUCKS!
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by TheSoundOfHockey on Jul 4, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Soap on a rope levels of groovy, man.
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"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Like If you mixed Scotty Nichol and Iron Butterfly together
No really, Sjostroms a cheap, solid 4th line winger, who would further improve the PK. I think he would be a great addition. Not the best goal scorer in the bunch, but he’s not supposed to score load o’ goals.
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
So...
We could have signed him before this deal…is there nothing we can do with this cap room besides sit on it for next year? For a team that needs to win the cup next year, I dont get this move…
IMO, the best use of this cap space is probably to hold on to it til next year to resign Couture, Burns, Braun, etc. However, DW might have something up his sleve.
"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time."
I keep seeing people say it’s best to use this cap space to sign Burns and Couture but that won’t count towards this year’s cap – the sharks have money to spend.
They also have, assuming the cap doesn’t go down, around $17mil in cap space next year and I think that’s probably enough to cover whatever raises those two might get.
Wilson isn’t done building this team, he will bring in players he thinks will fit – either before the season or during. I’m guessing we’ll see one more forwrad signed before the summer is up.
Probably. I do think for the first time in a few years, we won’t have to use the Woostah shuttle to gather up enough cap space to do anything at the deadline. I’d bet we’ll be at least 2 million under to start the season.
The Sharks, I think, won’t really have a Woostah shuttle to use much of this year. Braun, Desjardins…I think those are the only two guys who can go back and forth w/o having to clear waivers, and considering Desjardins is penciled into the 4th line center spot, he’ll have to be replaced if he’s not performing so not much $$ to save there.
I do think they’ll start the seaso w/ one extra forward and one extra d-man. The extra forward may go back and forth but again, it’ll probably be a league minimum player.
I think the Sharks will probably hang on to at least $3mil in cap space to start the season, just in case they need to make a move early, especially after what happened last year.
First time online since Friday. What did I miss? haha
Seriously though, very mixed emotions on this trade. Heater was a bit underwhelming during his stay in SJ (even in his first year here, IMO. I thought he should be able to hit 100 points playing with Jumbo), however he was still absolutely elite talent.
Havlat is not quite elite, although he was an all-star, so that is a bit of a loss. So, I come to the same conclusion most people have been: If we can do something with this cap space, we win the trade, if not, we lose it.
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I think Havlat is better than Heatley.
But apparently I’m in the minority there. Heatley was another Mark Bell – a touted player that ended up seeing his career downturn once he became part of the Sharks. That’s not to say the Sharks are to blame though, I actually think that Bell sucked to begin with and Heatley is going through a litany of personal problems, combined with the injuries. You can see it on his face, that’s one troubled man.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
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by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm not convinced he's better than Heater, but I'll reserve judgement.
In my mind Havlat could step in and, if healthy (and I think he will be), deliver anywhere from 60-80 points next year. Heatley would give us 70-90. So we really aren’t missing out on quite as much as some people are letting on.
But man, it’s hard to trade a truly elite player like Dany.
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Like has been said a few times though...
Doug Wilson is a smart man. There’s obviously more to this trade than the stats on paper and a meager 2.5M cap hit.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Seriously
If it comes down to trusting DW or guys on this board who don’t like the trade, I’m going with DW.
by Snoops on Jul 4, 2011 3:13 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
So rec'd.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Completely Rec'd.
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
I've got a ton of friends in Ottawa
Who have seen both Heater and Havlat close up. Every one of them says that Havlat is great and the Sharks got the better end of this deal, all things considered. Some of that might be due to hating on Heater, but still, I liked to hear that.
by Snoops on Jul 4, 2011 3:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
I can attest that Havlat was very well-loved in Ottawa
He was mostly moved because the team didn’t have a spot for him in their top six at the time.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
WHOA! Bell?!
Heatley may have been a bit underwhelming, but let’s not go to that level.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Mark Bell
was hardly hyped to the Dany Heatley extent. Heatley was/maybe still is a premier sniper. Mark Bell’s highest point total was 48 prior to joining the Sharks. He provided depth if nothing else.
But you’re right, Bell sucked to begin with and Heater is going through issues that no one here can possibly fathom unless anyone has killed a dude….which i’m not sure i’d put past a few of you more nefarious characters here….
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
by Brittjames11 on Jul 4, 2011 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think
Havlat is more of a set up player and was expected to be THE goal scorer in Minny. Whereas Heatley is a goal scorer and had to share time/shots with Thornton and Marleau so things didn’t even out. If that’s the case then I think this a fine trade b/c Havlat will be a perfect compliment to Thornton, Marleau, and Pavelski. I would like them to use that extra 6.7m on something great though
Fletcher said the biggest priority heading into the offseason was injecting some juice into a team that finished 30th in the league in shots on goal and had too many players who were better suited to passing and setting up others than finishing the plays themselves.
Havlat seemed to be one of those players. He tied for the team lead last season with 62 points, but only 22 of those came on goals.
“Marty Havlat is one of the better offensive forwards in the league,” Fletcher said. “You look at this trade, it’s two pretty good hockey players trading places. Some hockey players fit into some teams better than others. I think we’ve seen a lot of that over time.”
I've been looking through CapGeek
Unless DW does something completely unexpected (Who DW? Never! lol), the only guy I see who seems to fit is Ales Hemsky.
I’d be pretty okay with that, but who knows if Edmonton still wants to trade him, especially for the scraps we’d be offering (Ferriero, Braun & maybe a 1st rounder from a couple years in the future.)
Of course maybe we just add Mittens and keep some flexibility for next year.
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Ferreiro and Braun? Scraps?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing against those two, I think they could both be good players for us...
but they’re definitely scraps relative to the rest of the talent on our roster and who would be coming back in that deal. Maybe it could get done, but I’m not convinced.
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I’d rather give Ferriero a shot than trade for Hemsky.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
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I dunno, Hemsky's pretty close to a point-per-gamer.
And technically, we’d have just enough to sign Mittens for $2.9ish mil.
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He seems to be at a .8PPG rate. What worries me is that he hasn’t played more than 80 games since 05-06, and has only played more than 70 two years since then.
And his numbers have only been decent. Nothing that stands out, IMO. I’ve been waiting for Ferriero to get his shot, and I think that there’s a lot of support for the guy in the organization. By no means is he as talented as Seto (at least, not from what we’ve seen), but I’m excited to see what he can bring in a full season, with actual minutes.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Okay, so he's pretty close to being pretty close to being a point-per-gamer. ;]
His injury history though is a lot more concerning than I originally though.
I don’t know exactly where Ferriero fits on this team though. Maybe he could work on the 3rd line, but I’m not 100% sold.
With Hemsky, we’d be stacked… on opening night, at least. haha
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Hemsky?
Good gods. BUTTERCRUNCH?!
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
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RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Haha. Didn't think about that.
I just looked through and saw a righty shooting RW who has a moderately high cap hit, and trade rumors around him. Plus I think he’s a FA after this year, which would work out perfectly for this teams payroll.
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Hemsky IS an intriguing option
But health is a concern. But, at this point, it seems like anyone who’s an option has a health history.
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That's probably why they are options.
Trade for Hemsky, and spend the rest of our cap on doctors and bubble wrap.
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After a day to digest this...
I still don’t know what to think about the trade..I have to feel that offensively, Heatley is the more superior player. But I don’t want to reflect on the trade right now.
I want to say that I appreciate what Heatley did in his time as a Shark. He had a bad reputation from Ottawa and Atlanta, but all that I saw from him as a Shark was class. He never complained about being demoted, he played through his fair share of injuries, he even killed penalties…I wish Heatley the best in his future and hope that the rest of the league can start to see the Heatley that played as a Shark! Heatley will be cheered in his returns to HP Pavilion, even if he scores on us! Lol
Heatley will be cheered in his returns to HP Pavilion, even if he scores on us! Lol
Let’s not take this too far. I hope Heatley and Gooch score a hat-trick every night, except for those time they play the Sharks, when I hope they go pointless and -13.
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I like Dany Heatley
but I love the Stanley Cup. I hope Heatley proves the Sharks wrong, but I think this is a good trade (as long as Plank’s right and something else is on the horizon). Over at Arctic Ice Hockey, they aren’t waiting to pass judgement. They predicted that with trades as they stand, the Sharks have a 15-20% chance of making it to the finals. Although my calculations put it at 27.8%, I sure hope DW isn’t done. One thing is for sure…I’ll be watching a lot more Wild games (despite the Santa’s Elf uniforms).
"It was tough to get back at him (Colton Orr) even later because he never played another shift," said Murray, who stands six-foot-three and weighs 240 pounds
The Wild
“…had too many players who were better suited to passing and setting up others than finishing the plays themselves.
Havlat seemed to be one of those players. He tied for the team lead last season with 62 points, but only 22 of those came on goals"
I agree, this trade is for the best and makes the Sharks better. I really hope there are more moves to be mad though.
Couture's response to the trade (via twitter)
Logancouture For everyone asking, Heater was always a great pro and a tremendous teammate. Learned a lot from him. He will be missed, but excited to get a fantastic hockey player in Martin Havlat! Is the season starting soon? #imisshockey
I think we should have a nuclear world war.
That way, we would have nuclear winter, which would mean HOCKEY ALL YEAR. :D!
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions
The Cup is contested in the Spring
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
It is?
Shit there’s our problem.
We just need to play like its winter all the time. Sign me up for this nuclear winter thing! Plus, it’ll balance out global warming. Science!
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.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 4, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Or we could just move all the teams to Canada
Though no team would win the Cup then…
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
by Bockerz on Jul 4, 2011 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
No one would want to play there either
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
You see, that's irrelevant
There are no real fans anywhere else. It’s not about the players.
I mean, look at Winnipeg. The fans are super excited. And some real talented players are flocking there, like Derek Meach & Tanner Glass.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I was being facetious
Are we being serious again?
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Dead serious!
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Good on Couture
Way to stand up for a teammate. Things like this matter, and I’m glad to see him do so.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Heatley seems to have developed a bad rep for isolated incidents
The situation in Atlanta was unfortunate, and frankly very sad. The situation in Ottawa was disappointing, but ultimately he didn’t like the direction there.
As a result, he got this reputation as a locker-room “cancer”. Frankly, from his time in SJ, that’s a load of BS.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
From his time in Ottawa, it's BS too
I’ve never read about him being a bad teammate anywhere that I can recall.
Silver Seven - The Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators Blogs
Yeah
I understand why Senators fans dislike him. “Hate” may be a bit too strong, but I have no problem with fans not liking him. I would definitely have a negative feeling towards the guy if he did something like that here.
But, while is numbers were lower than expected, he’s definitely going to be missed. Hopefully the team will fair better, but I hope he does well in Minny.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
although you have to say, there is much less twitter action here than there was when Seto left. I don’t know if the team told them to tone it down, or if this indicates that Heatley was maybe not that popular of a player. I do notice how impersonal this particular tweet is.
There were also Seto’s comments last night in the Minneapolis paper—he was definitely personal in terms of how thrilled he is to get to play with Heatley again and talked about how he was a great friend off the ice, too.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
Clowe now
ryaneclowe29 Ryane Clowe
Want to send my best to a great teammate and friend Dany Heatley. Had a blast playing with you.
PS - I MUST BREAK YOU
LOVE RYAN CLOWE
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Love Couture
This guy really has his head on straight and I so look forward to his future. He is the next captain on this team when Jumbo retires in a few years. He will be a great leader for this team in the future. Nothing this guy does in the future would surprise me. He is everything you could ever want in a hockey player. Just stay healthy Logan and it will all be good.
It should be.
You French colonies up there came through in the clutch when we fought of the British.
by Briceratops on Jul 4, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
It seems like the majority of Heatley/Havlat comparisons are based on offense only
Defense is always harder to measure than offense. Even if you measure goals against or shots against, it’s still not always that cut and dried. If you compare their point scoring abilities, Heatley is clearly the superior player, but Havlat seems to be the better defender. At what point do those discrepancies overlap? At what point does Havlat’s defensive advantage overtake Heatley’s offensive advantage?
I would probably agree that Dany Heatley is a better hockey player than Martin Havlat in a vacuum, but they don’t play in a vacuum; they play (or played) for the San Jose Sharks. For the 2011-2012 San Jose Sharks, I honestly believe Havlat is a better fit. The Sharks still have tons of offensive firepower…there are probably at least seven guys who SHOULD score 20+ goals next season and another few with the upside to get close or even surpass that mark. When Setoguchi was traded, a lot of people moaned about the loss of speed, with some even pointing at Heatley as a guy that substantially slowed down the pace. Havlat is a very good established player that can player in all three zones and has outstanding speed. Swapping Heatley for Havlat completely changes the speed dynamic of the roster. Heatley’s goal-scoring abilities will be missed, but I think Havlat gives the Sharks some abilities, namely skating speed and defensive play, that Heatley didn’t exactly excel in. I honestly think the Sharks got a player that fits their roster better AND saved $2.5 million in the process. I can’t possibly see there not being another domino to fall, but at this point I think it’s safe to say the Sharks are a better team than they were last year, and that’s NOT an easy thing to do.
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by a10dency2ask on Jul 4, 2011 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
hm....
@Logan Couture: Heard Charlie Sheen had an interview I missed tonight, damn! He might be the only person in the world thats #winning more than us right now.
You would have to be some kinda genius to count all those rings
He’s five…
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jul 4, 2011 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Leela: IF you're all done being stupid...
Fry: I’ve got more, but go ahead.
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
So whether they like this trade or not
Most people seem to be of the mind that there is more to follow perhaps.So what are the options realistically? Perhaps a right-handed LW? One more PK player would be nice. The thing that screams at me is the room to pick up a few more great players and keep a bit of cap room for the looming Cooch/Burns signings. The 2014 capocalypse seems to be less of an issue each day.
Right-handed LW?
As in Jamie Langenbrunner???
Bingo.
The principal supporting business now is rage. -- Richard Hugo
I said realistic though, what lines did Sergei Samsonov play for Florida? He could be an option but I haven’t done much research save for a cursory glance over his player card on NHL.com
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jul 5, 2011 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
He helped me out in my fantasy league a couple years ago
when he played for carolina. I think he played on the power play which is why i liked him.
BLEED TEAL
I just see him a feasible option that could really surprise people. Think anyone left out there is a bit of gamble though
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jul 5, 2011 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Seems like
Everyone was calling for heatley to be gone…and now that he is it was the worst idea ever…
Here’s how I see it:
Heatley is a better player than havlat. Hands down. We’re not going to get all of those goals back that we lost in heatley.
But: We didn’t get anywhere with those goals. Blame it on Heatley’s injuries (which he certainly did have, and they limited him greatly) if you want, but the fact of the matter is that we weren’t going to win the cup icing the same 6 every year. This is a shake up by Wilson, and It improves our team in an area it’s needed it: Defensively. Havlat will be much more responsible (and he has a lot more speed) which seems to be where we were lacking. Vancouver was simply faster than us and it showed. I like this direction wilson is taking the sharks in. I certainly don’t think he’s done (6+ million left? he’s definitely doing more moves).
I say bring in some role players: Someone for faceoffs at key times (next to hanzeus) Some more solid 3rd and 4th liners (although i’m liking where we’re at right now with the young guys gettin a chance, then bring someone in at the trade deadline if need be) Resign Wellwood.
I like our chances
And i apologize for the sparaticness of that post. Too lazy to proof-read and edit.
Cliff notes of last post
Trading heatley was stupid.
8 Million reasons why it was brilliant.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 4, 2011 7:49 PM PDT reply actions
You’ve been on SBNation for at least a couple years now and you still don’t know how to use the reply button!??
no
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow. Burns sure gets a lot of second chances.
He either gets his own rebound or has it wind up back on his stick after a few passes. He doesn’t miss a second time.
They all hit on net, too. No more “And ______ shoots wide”.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 5, 2011 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions
um
christian ehrhoff hasn’t player for us for a whiiiiiile
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 5, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm likin' the Burns highlight reel up above.
nice.
I’m also REALLY liking the trade for Havlat, for some reason. I can’t quite explain it (I can a little, just not fully, or anywhere near fully). But this afternoon around 3pm I just got this big, goofy grin on my face. I don’t know if my face is a bell-weather or anything like that, but maybe this once.. ;)
(hey, we all the Sharks to do well—some positive vibes can’t hurt, can they?).
By Grabthar's hammer and the hands of Zeus, I shall avenge thee.
STILL SAD
I DON’T CARE
UP THE PUCKS!
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by TheSoundOfHockey on Jul 5, 2011 6:14 AM PDT reply actions
Don't be sad...
Also… best meme ever:
Someone save it and use it next season
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
Score!!!
You cant have a here-today-gone-tomorrow player like Dany Heatley tying up $7.5 million in cap space. Jumbo and Patty are franchise players and are committed to staying Sharks. Heatley is a great player but he wants to get paid and therein lies the problem. The idea was for him to give the offense the shot in the arm it needed to reach the Cup final and it didnt pan out.
DW invested far too much into forwards at the sacrifice of unloading good defensemen (Rivet, Carle) the last few years. The core of the defense with the exception of Boyle was stripped out. Losing Heatley’s weight on the cap to acquire stronger 2 sided players will be a long term benefit.
Minnesota gains a veteran goal scorer as well as the talent of Seto from the Brent Burns deal, the hope being that they will bolster a team whose had coaching issues and the inability to win games. Both teams get what they need but I agree that if I were a GM, I wouldn’t want Heatley’s cap hit for the next 3 years.
I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all.
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders
Not to pick nits...
But Carle was not traded for a forward – he was sent away in the Dan Boyle trade. And how can your questions Heatley’s commitment to stay a member of the Sharks? Who’s to say that he had any less commitment to the Sharks than Marleau and Thornton? After all, his contract was signed with Ottawa before he got here…
"All that means is that I'll be 783 years old when I catch Scotty Bowman." - Kevin Constantine
Ummm...
If I recall correctly, Heatley was on a massive contract from Ottawa and is getting paid no matter what happens (though it was a reasonable contract at the time and had he gone to the open market would have easily made that much). He then asked to be traded and chose SJ over another team. Sounds like he wanted to be with the Sharks and not just collect paychecks, which he could have done in Ottawa or Edmonton just fine.
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I admire you sir
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6MlaIe1ljs
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 5, 2011 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions
NTC
So many on this site said, “Quit dreaming, Heater is not going anywhere, he has a no trade clause”. I said so what, that doesn’t mean anything if a team says they don’t want you anymore. The writing was on the wall, Heatley underperformed and DW wanted to get that Albatross of a contract off the books. Burns was brought here to stay here, and will be re-signed during the season to a nice contract. We needed the cap space to accomodate him. Also, I felt Heatley was expendible with the emergence of Cooch. If Havlet was the best we could get for Heater, I can live with that. I’m just glad we don’t have to watch him struggle anymore (especially in the playoffs).
Good luck to Heater, a great guy and welcome Marty!
Go Sharks, or in the words of Rush, “Show Don’t Tell”.
How many times do you hear it?
It goes on all day long
Everyone knows everything
And no one’s ever wrong
Until later…
(Show me, don’t tell me)
You’ve figured out the score
(Show me, don’t tell me)
I’ve heard it all before
(Show me, don’t tell me)
I don’t care what you say
(Show me, don’t tell me)
by douchebags on Jul 5, 2011 7:54 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Actually
Most of us said Heater wasn’t going anywhere, he has a No Movement Clause, which is nearly impossible to do anything about. Most of us were unaware of a list that Heatley had to give every off season of the 10 teams he wouldn’t go to. If he did have the air tight No Movement Clause that we thought, I doubt very much that Heatley would have been traded to a non-playoff team.
Remember, with a No Movement Clause you cannot trade the player, waive the player, reassign the player without the players consent. The only power a GM/Coach has over a player with an NMC is that he can bench him. The press box is as far as they can tell him to go.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
Tweet Tweet
Yep, it wasn't air tight
And usually when a player of his calaber realizes that he’s no longer part of a teams future plans, he will accept a trade so as not to f-up the chemistry. I doubt he wanted to go, but 5 goals in 32 playoff games is a fact that even he couldn’t spin into a positive.
Plus, with Havlet, we get an extra year for only $2 million over what Heater is making and we get cap relief. I see it as the best for both players and wish Heater well.
I’m not at all surprised he got moved, as he’s been an under achiever for the Sharks. I see it as being a great move for next season and the future.
Heater did not have to accept this trade
He could only submit a list of 10 teams he didn’t want to be traded to. Because his NTC had a window during which it was a limited NTC. Heater did not exactly have a say in to WHETHER he’d be traded. Only a limited choice as to where.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Not my point at all
What I’m saying is that he knew SJ didn’t want him anymore. He stalled out last season and they wanted to clear some of his cap space. He’s no fool. Knowing this meant that it was time to move on again.
Drew Remenda said that he needs to completely re-tool his off-season workout. He went on to say that his leg strength, balance, and core are not where they need to be now that he’s 30.
DW has coveted Marty Havlet for years. When we lost Seto to acquire Burns, we needed to recoup some of that lost speed and Marty has that. If used correctly, he can be an intrical part of this team for years to come.
So I understand your point, but the trade was inevitable once DW asked for the list. Dany knew about the clause in his contract or window for DW to move him. I’m sure that decision was made shortly after we lost to Vancouver. Injuries or not, Heater’s 5 goals in 32 playoff games was just not nearly good enough.
he knew SJ didn’t want him anymore.
I don’t know that any of Heatley’s quotes to the press indicate that he knew this was coming beforehand. I know he said something to the effect of knowing he underperformed, but I don’t think he had any reason to expect a trade.
And honestly, given how everything seems to have gone down, I’m not sure even Heatley was aware of the exact nature of this window. Wouldn’t surprise me in the least anyway.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
just a few thoughts on good ole heater
I totally agree that he could very well regain his 50 goal scoring touch, and his shot will be missed on our team. But…
*He had a single-faceted game. His shot. Sure he set up shop occasionally, but realistically Dany Heatley only had one aspect to his game- his shot. His lack of other dimensions hurt our team in ways that don’t show up on the stat sheet.
*When you pay a sniper $7.5M to go out there and score goals and he can’t do so along Joe Thornton, one of the best passers in the game, something is seriously wrong.
*If you look at the majority of his goals over the past 2 years, he doesnt often “snipe” like he should. The vast majority of his goals are scored from right outside the crease. Nothing wrong with parking your fat ass out in front, in fact I wish more of our guys would, but thats not a task you pay $7.5m for.
*Playoffs. Yes, I realize that he was injured in the past 2 playoffs for the Sharks. I agree, these injuries hurt his production. What you cannot argue, though, is that Dany Heatley has always been a mediocre-at-best playoff performer. 15 goals in 66 career NHL playoff games.
So yes, we gave up on a premier goal scorer who certainly could have reemerged this season (granted that his injuries are recoverable). On the other side, lets not pretend that we got a piece of garbage in return. Havlat will fit our roster much better than Heatley, bringing many different aspects to the team both off and on the score sheet. Although on paper this trade may freak you out, but I think its safe to say that DW knows his team much better than any of us do.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 5, 2011 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Scott Nichol signed w/ St. Louis
He gets to play with his buddy Kent Huskins!
Nichol is gonna be great there, they are a very young team and his leadership will be a big asset for them.
by milanahalek on Jul 5, 2011 9:10 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Good luck Scotty
Back to the old Norris to f*** some s*** up!
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
go scotty!
little guy, BIG heart. plenty to love about a player like 5cent. best of luck to him in STL.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 5, 2011 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions
From St. Louis
The Blues don’t have a stable ownership and haven’t for about 10 years now. Until they get some stability in ownership, this franchise is going nowhere. I actually feel sorry for Scotty a good guy and teammate.
Remenda was on Toronto radio last night talking about the deal
http://www.640toronto.com/HostsandShows/BillWatters/Main.aspx
Thinks Heatley needs to spend the entire offseason rebuilding his leg strength.
by Kazoonole on Jul 5, 2011 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
thank you for that
really, really good piece. everyone should give it a listen.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 5, 2011 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Excellent
Thanks a lot. Havlet’s speed will help SJ, especially since Seto is gone. They really seem to think this is a great trade for San Jose and don’t think much of Heater since joining San Jose. Drew illudes to his skill set diminishing. It will be interesting to see if he can bounce back and dedicate this off season to improving his strength?
i want to grammar nazi your butthole right now.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Legal in New York
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Good listen.
UP THE PUCKS!
"This is a good time to come together and raise our middle finger in the air." - Dan Boyle
by TheSoundOfHockey on Jul 5, 2011 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions
Stanley Cup Bruins, Learn
The Bruins won the cup with fabulous goal tending and no stars on offense, but gritty guys who played as a team and with incredible heart and intensity, beat down the star laden Canucks. I want guys who will bring that intensity and heart to the table. Heatley didn’t do that. Give me lesser talent who plays their butts off night after night and really brings it in the playoffs.
Hard to copy that formula unfortunately. There are plenty of the teams who skate hard every night and play their butts off…but don’t make the playoffs because they don’t have enough skill.
by a10dency2ask on Jul 5, 2011 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
Virtually impossible to predict who "really brings it in the playoffs."
The Bruins win has just as much to do with Vancouver being decimated by injuries as it does with Brad Marchand suddenly becoming a playoff hero. If you win, it’s because your guys brought it. At some point, the on-ice talent just has to deliver. Heatley’s decline merits some discussion of his not having brought it, but playing through a groin injury and a broken hand is also “bringing it.” We just lost to better teams, plain and simple, and losing has consequences.
If we were to take Chicago’s lesson on winning a Cup, Dany Heatley would be a huge part of our success. And, quite frankly, we made the Conference Finals in back to back seasons with him, a first in franchise history. I don’t think that was exactly an accident.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
After being on FTF for over a year...
I tend to always find myself having the same viewpoints as you Elvis. On almost all things.. including Marleau! By no means was the Sharks reaching the WTC an accident. We were (and still are?) one of the best, if not the best, team in the NHL. We’ve faced our demons (Detroit) twice in back to back years and twice now have we come out on top. There just seems to be that last little hump that we can’t get over….
To be fair
That last little hump probably has a lot to do with not being defensively accountable. And the trade of Heatley for Havlat DOES improve us there. I will never say Dany Heatley was THE problem, but he was A problem, and one that’s now been addressed. A real pity because Heatley did make a difference here, and you’d like to see that be rewarded, and this trade feels like a punishment and an indictment, even though I don’t think Doug Wilson views it that way.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
And a 37 year old goalie who went from journeyman to Vezina winner, to backup with an untradeable contract
to a Vezina and Conn Smythe winner with one of the greatest Finals efforts in recent memory.
That’s….really hard to replicate.
Re: Tim Thomas
Trading Heatley has in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM improved our goaltending. Just thought I’d point that out.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
technically, it does.
One less pylon in the defensive zone. HONK HONK
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Will it make Niemi catch pucks?
:P
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
might slow down some shots.
not sure about Niemi’s hands though. I just want Stalock to hurry the fuck up.
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Thomas
It surprises me that people don’t realize that w/o Thomas I don’t think the Bruins get out of the 1st round…he was the reason they won and you’re right, kinda hard to replicate his performance.
Physical Play & Great Defense Too
Obviously without Thomas winning the cup would have been a lot tougher. You can’t rule out their physical play and that they were hitting anything that moved. We shouldn’t forget Chara and Seidenberg being the best defensive pair in the game. Great defense, great goaltending and physcal play won them the cup. They didn’t have one player in the top ten in scoring.
Except for playoff scoring...
They didn’t have one player in the top ten in scoring.
During the regular season they didn’t have someone in the top ten, yet during the entirety of the playoffs, Krejci stepped up his game and outscored both Sedins…
That physical play of the Bruins only came to the forefront against the Canucks and if you watched Chara through out the playoffs, he wasn’t his usual self – Seidenberg carried that pair.
The Bruins had everyone playing well at the same time (except for maybe Kaberle), a lot of luck (how often do you get to face 4 teams missing at least their top d-man) and had a historic goaltending performance, that’s how they won. They absolutely deserved to win the cup but their “recipe” is not one that’s going to be followed, at least not by this Sharks team.
No stars on offense?
They had eight players with forty or more points and two players with sixty points!
Yeah...but that's really the max for most of those guys
Nobody on that roster has the potential to put up 70-80+ points in a season, unless Marc Savard ever comes back and is as good as he used to be. But even that’s asking a lot.
Heck, the Sharks’ 5th highest scoring player (Clowe), would have led Boston in points this year.
Tim Thomas
That’s why the Bruins won the Cup. Otherwise, they’re out in the first round.
It’s honestly as simple as that. Yes, Boston worked hard in the Finals, but what Thomas did? Impossible. I mean, even after watching it, I’m pretty sure it was all made up. No way he played that well… for an entire season. That’s bullshit.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
topical verdict picture of the day:
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:24 PM PDT reply actions
Please dont bring that madness here
Not to be a stick in the mud but i gotta say its really annoying.
by Montyburnz!...1 on Jul 5, 2011 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions
you mad?
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 5, 2011 1:43 PM PDT reply actions
So havlat apparantly likes to be the set up guy?
Does that mean that we put him on the first line and convince him to be the goal scorer or do you put him on the second to help out couture and clowe?
BLEED TEAL
I think Couture really brings out the best in Clowe and i would like to keep them together, but I also think that Couture would score a ton of goals playing alongside Thornton. Assuming we don’t pick any other top 6 forwards I think i’d like to see:
Marleau – Thornton – Couture
Clowe – Pavelski – Havlat
Mitchell – Handzus – TBD
TBD – Desjardins – McGinn
I agrew, I think Havlat on Pavs wing is perfect. Both Clowe and Pavs can shoot the puck and Havlat is a very good playmaker.
I also think Couture on JT’s wing looked good when it happened last seaosn – only bad part is if Couture puts in 35-40 goals and ups his payday next year, but I think I can live with that.
All 3 of Clowe – Pavs – Havlat can really shoot the puck, and they all 3 have some good playmaking ability as well. Our top 6 would be insane with those lines, but we would lose some scoring depth since our 3rd line would actually be made up of 3rd liners. lol
Take your pick :)
Detroits 2010 postseason ends in San Jose in 5 games
or…
Detroits 2011 postseason ends in San Jose in 7 games
Murray > Kronwall
Hating the Canucks since 2011
by sharkblood99 on Jul 5, 2011 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
Well, let's see. We got this one
Then we got this.
Notice how Murray is epic enough not to need to take a flying leap to deliver a check.
Finally, to prove that Murray > Kronwall, we have this.
But hey, you’ve got a defenseman who got a cute nickname from a drunk color man on your local broadcast, so you got that going for you.
by Kazoonole on Jul 5, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 12 recs
come on – that user name is awesome!
by milanahalek on Jul 5, 2011 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You'd like me to pick which picture shows Kronwall with his skates off the ice?
It pretty much doesn’t matter as the Wings were golfing both of the past two Conference Finals does it?
See, we can troll too, but we don’t.
Stay classy.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Wow...
Your team has won so much. They’re pretty great.
by Shark_fans_are_the_worst on Jul 5, 2011 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions
And our great team has beaten yours two straight
Thanks for trolling, now you’re banned
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Got to say it Elvis but...
I was expecting more from your ban message.
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
He wasn't worth more
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
damn you, elvis!
I was just about to post the go-to red wings band wagon fan cheering for the sharks picture :(
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 5, 2011 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Late to the party... but i thought this was worth sharing.
but this facepalm says it all:
Kronwall is a douche
Your “dynasty” is over.
Put your tinfoil hat on and go bitch about how badly the league screwed the ‘Wings this year after your season got sealed in game 7. Cleary getting smoked by his own man in game 7 was just another nail in the coffin. How’s your summer going, you know since you started a whole two weeks to a month before the finals?
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
by Scotty Ace on Jul 6, 2011 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Noice.
Told that wankah down, eh?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 6, 2011 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions
PODCAST!
"Bobby Orr was available, but we couldn’t fit him in under the cap." - Todd McLellan
"BEAT DAT BEAT!!!"
by DownRUpLYB on Jul 5, 2011 2:41 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
God, with all these Keith Yandle trade rumors I can’t help but think that we could’ve probably gotten Yandle instead of Burns, and maybe for less than what we gave up for Burns.
Yandle is almost certainly better than Burns atm imo, and he’s a couple years younger (still an RFA) and doesn’t have any concussion history. Burns might have a higher upside though considering he’s bigger than Yandle and I think he’s a better skater, so whatever, I GUESS.
Though i still wonder if we could’ve gotten Yandle for the same deal we got Burns for. We probably didn’t even need to include a 1st (not that the 1st mattered much anyways).
Phx was never trying to trade him, but if they were – it would’ve taken more considering they’re in the same division. Yandle is a franchise d-man and I also think he might be better than Burns.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaat.
We didn’t trade away Couture, Marleau and Thornton to sign J.S. Giguere and Doug Weight. That’s the only situation I can envision that would make the Sharks like Philly.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 5, 2011 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions
You know who would be the perfect guy for us to sign right now?
Alexander Frolov. He can put up some serious points, he has some good defensive ability, he can kill penalties, and he and Handzus are both buddies who played great together.
But I think he went to the KHL, so i think it might be too late to sign him.
Really surprised it never worked out for him
Thought NYR might be his chance to shine. But yeah, he’s in Russia now. Last off-season, the MSM labeled him a bust, because he’s Russian and even tempered, and he didn’t get mad like Dustin Brown.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Wellwood left the KHL to sign with an NHL team though. Couldn’t we still sign Frolov if we convinced him to come? I wonder if he would have to pass through waivers.
He would indeed have to pass through re-entry waivers as he's not in the NHL
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Fro-loaf
While I’ll admit he’s a skilled hockey player, he seems to be the kind of player that drifts through things. Not the kind of mantra we are trying to build.
by startwearingpurple on Jul 5, 2011 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, but if we got him at fair price (2 mill sounds fair) I think he’d be excellent for our 3rd line even if he doesn’t play with a ‘fire in his belly’ or whatever lol.
I’d say I would much prefer Langenbrunner at that price though.
by startwearingpurple on Jul 5, 2011 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm on board.
I have a signed Frolov puck, this would make it relevant to me!
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
From @renhockey
#sharks Thomas Greiss 2 years / 1.175 total (first year 2 way-2nd year one way)
Link
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
So I guess this guarantees Nittymaki doesn't get resigned
And we’re all Niemi from then on.
Terrific…
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Yes, no Niitty after this season but I think Stalock will be back during the season, it just doesn’t sound like he’ll be ready to start the season. And with Niitty’s brittle body, having Greiss avail., is a good thing.
I thought Stalock was maybe a year away this past season, that might be 2 years w/ this injury.
And Niemi is a good starting goalie, at least in my opinion.
Niemi is a good goalie
But until I see how our D pans out, I don’t know if he’s good enough to win behind our D.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
So what you're saying is...
We should sign Tokalola?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 5, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Toskalola*
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Jul 5, 2011 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Fair enough, but in my opinion – I don’t think the D can possibly be worse than in was last year (until White came along).
We're almost certainly better
So I guess I shouldn’t be so pessimistic. But in spite of Niemi’s HUGE improvement, I just feel like our goaltending dollars could be better spent.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
I just feel like our goaltending dollars could be better spent.
VOKOUN
Shameless radio show plug. Also, here's my twitter.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
for 1.5M Lol...what a steal
I think Nemo will look a LOT better behind this defense…
Burns-Vlasic
Boyle-Murray
Demers-Vandermeer
Braun
than this one…
Boyle-Murray
Demers-Vlasic
White-Wallin
Huskins
I am looking forward to Nemo improving even more behind our new, revamped D. Go Sharks!
Go Sharks!
Reverse Braun and Vandermeer and I'm on board.
I would rather be happy than right any day.
by SouthBayernMunchen on Jul 6, 2011 1:07 AM PDT up reply actions
+1
You’re not alone. His SC win with Chicago has been discounted by critics. True, Chicago had the best D that year, but they still needed at least someone solid in goal (especially in the Van series). And that was his first full year in the NHL. He does have a lot to improve upon, but he has three things that a recent Sharks goalie doesn’t have: an SC and the experience and mental fortitude that comes along with that.
Since it was only his second full season in the NHL (and an impressive Vezina nomination-worthy second half at that), he’s only going to get better. And if he did that well with a D inferior to Chicago’s, that speaks volumes about his ability.
by sharksfanwithajd on Jul 6, 2011 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
Probably
Definitely surprising that he’s staying with the organization…
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator !!
I’m going to miss both Seto and Heater. Coyle will be missed in terms of the future, but I’m not as disappointed about him. He hasn’t done anything, to be fair, and is still a few years away.
I sorta wish we could’ve just traded Heater for Burns. Not only is that interesting in terms of nicknames, but we could’ve kept Seto. I have this hope that DW has this master plan which has Seto developing his game in Minny, and then signing him back in 3 years. Oh, I wish…
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Has it been mentioned already it really was just 1 trade.
I haven’t been able to read all the comments. But I have read people say lets look at it as 1 trade (Seto/Heater). Well you should because it was. The only reason it was mentioned at 2 different times was the draft and because of Heatley’s trade window. The first part was done at the draft so Minnesota could select its player. The second part had to happen when the trade window opened. Which it did as soon as it happened. There’s no doubt it was all agreed upon at once between the two teams as a complete package deal but had to be announced the way it was because of the trade window.
Where is GOLG???
METH SQUIRREL IS BACK!!
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WOOOOO MOTHERFUCKERS!
COULD THIS OFFSEASON GET ANY BETTER? TRADE NITTY AND MITCHELL WOOOOOOO
FUCKIN SQUIRREL WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 6, 2011 3:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Man the Caps still have to sign RFAs Troy Brouwer and Karl Alzner but according to capgeek they only have 500k cap space. We need to find a way to get our 3rd rounder back from Philly so we can snatch Alzner from them. Alzner would be a great partner for Boyle I think.
I don’t think i’d mind getting Troy Brouwer either, but his playoff numbers are reeeally bad so I’m not so sure about him.
Why wouldn’t we try to trade for the guy instead? You can go over the cap by 6.4 in the offseason, so it’s not like they couldn’t match it in the short term.
Brouwer resigns for 2 years at 2.35 million per, so I think that puts Washington over the cap by 1.8ish million.
Why
Do the picks you pay for RFAs have to be YOUR picks? You should be able to hustle acquired picks.
Don't mean to be a negative nelly..
But I truly don’t know who gave you the idea that Havlat is a defensive improvement. There is absolutely zero two-way aspect to his game. His -29 in the last two seasons in Minny is team worst, by far, and he didn’t play against top opposing lines, as the analysis in the post showed.
Sure, he’s fast enough to backcheck, but he’s a headless chicken in the defensive zone. I just thought I’d let you guys know so you don’t explode when his two-way play inevitably leaves you wanting more. That being said, he should still fit quite nicely with the Sharks! Enjoy!
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
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well if thats how we are going to see things
Have fun hearing “he doesn’t miss those very often!” about 50 times a game.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Jul 6, 2011 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
+1
If you mention ending your life, or show signs of self-harm, I will take you seriously!
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Still better than Miettinen's 100 misses per game ;)
JS, Champion of the first ever Hockey Wilderness Playoff Bracket Challenge! WHOOOOOOOO!
Author, watchdog, enforcer and french-canadian connection for Hockey Wilderness.
twitter: BubbleWild48
I don't think anyone's expecting Havlat
to be a defensive stalwart. Just that he will be an improvement over Heatley. Heatley cannot backcheck AT ALL…and Heatley’s not quick enough to be an effective forechecker either.
Who's left in the UFA market?
Just curious who I should be keeping an eye on, or an speculation as what DW might be looking to do with that remaining cap space. Any thoughts/prospects? Seems like most of the people we highlighted earlier have already been swooped up.
Someone should sign me.
My fitness may not be up to par, but I can still put up more NHL points than Yashin next season.
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by Evil Stanchion on Jul 6, 2011 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Great analysis and discussion
When all is said and done, I’m just glad we got more than a used bag of pucks for injured Heatley. And here I was ready for another year of hoping the $7.5mil man goes from mediocrity to bank only to be heartbroken. Good job DW.
I think this also sends a message that no one is safe if you’re lacking, not even top line players…not implying Heatley was intentionally underperforming, just saying… it sends a message to everyone on the team, and I really think Heatley’s seemingly constant injuries sealed the deal, DW made a heads up call on this one. I just wish we could have Seto back- he seemed like he was on track to have a good season this year.
Pretty excited about this new Sharks line up. Waiting for one last deal…anticipation is killing me.
Bleeding teal and black all the way from NY since '91.
"You do that, you go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by yourself, you know and you feel shame, you know. And then you get free. "-Denis Lemieux
4/19/11, a day that will live in infamy... for Kings fans.
I'm not afraid to say it.
As good as Heater is…And I did like him in Teal…He had no one on one skill (in both ends of the ice). If there was a defender in front of him, the play was pretty much dead. (Skating ability and stick handeling*). If he had to make a play on D…Good luck….Havlat will provide more offensive power OVERALL, and has a way more defensive presence…. I like how plank put it in this post. I would have to agree on just about everything. However, I don’t believe we became a worse team with the trade…I think the became more well rounded, and saved 2.5M at the same time. loosing a debelitating sniper is not such a bad thing. Just my opinion that is.
LACES OUT
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Jul 7, 2011 1:08 PM PDT reply actions
Late reaction is late, but I was out of town all week.
I’m not a big fan of the deal, and even less so reading that Havlat is not as solid defensively as I thought he was. I thought Heatley was going to really bounce back this year, and return to his 09-10 form even if he had been on the 2nd line. The deal makes a little more sense if the injury issues are more serious than previously believed, but I get the feeling Heatley’s last season could prove to be an anomaly. If the cap space saved from Heatley and some of next year’s UFAs coming of the books can be used to lock up Couture and Burns long-term, I’ll like the deal a lot more. But right now, I’m a little uneasy.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take"-Wayne Gretzky"-Michael Scott.
by SharksFanEst.1994 on Jul 10, 2011 2:52 PM PDT reply actions
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