Kyle Wellwood Signs One Year, $700 K Contract With The Winnipeg Jets
by Mr. Plank on Sep 8, 2011 7:53 PM PDT
in NHL News
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According to Ken Wiebe of the Winnipeg Sun, former Sharks forward Kyle Wellwood has signed a contract to play with the Winnipeg Jets next season. The deal is reported to be a one year deal worth $700 K.
Wellwood had a player page on the team's official website earlier in the night as well.
Earlier in the offseason we discussed Wellwood's advanced statistics with the Sharks, stating that despite his weak quality of competition numbers Wellwood played admirably in a third line role. Amongst Sharks forwards who played at least 30 NHL games, Wellwood was sixth on the team in goals per 60 minutes of ice time (0.65), eighth on the team in points per 60 minutes of ice time (1.55), had the best relative CORSI on the team (18.5), was tied for first in shots for on ice per 60 minutes (33.6), first on the team in penalties taken (0.0), fourth on the team in penalties drawn (1.2), and first in +/- per 60 minutes of ice time (an astounding 1.42).
All in all, a very solid pickup for a young Jets team who was wise to jump on a low-risk high-reward player such as Wellwood heading into training camp. The Jets, who returned to Winnipeg following the relocation of the Atlanta Thrashers, finished in 20th place last season in goals per game and struggled with offensive consistency all season long.
Although Wellwood isn't a high-profile goal scorer, potting a career-high 18 goals in 08-09 with the Vancouver Canucks, he should bring some needed offensive help to a team that failed to finish the year with a 60+ point player. Considering the second and third leading point scorers last season were defensemen (Byfuglien, Enstrom), adding as much help as they can get up front is a win, especially at a low short-term price.
Expect Wellwood to compete for a second line role in camp next season, with second line power play duty a possibility as well. Those opportunities would clearly not have been given to him in San Jose, especially if the Sharks top six stays healthy throughout the year.
Earlier this summer Wellwood was allegedly considering a tryout with the Sharks during training camp, competing with players such as Andrew Murray, Jamie McGinn, Cam MacIntyre, James Sheppard, Benn Ferriero, and Andrew Desjardins for a roster spot. At this point in the offseason, San Jose looks to be going for youth on their lower lines to begin the year, although a training camp tryout invitation to a defensive-minded veteran player such as John Madden could also be a possibility.
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Kyle Wellwood gets $700k contract with the Winnipeg Jets San Jose Sharks.
This is how my mind wants to read it. ;-;
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
You mean Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg?
With team jerseys that have a blend of the Blue Jackets 3rd and Panthers 3rd?
Randy Hahn - "The Man With The Big Butt - Patrick Marleau - we like him and we cannot lie..."
-- I am Ryane Clowe (tee hee)
I hope I'm not the only one that thinks they should have been battleship grey.
With navy blue shoulders and wrist/waist stripes.
THAT would would have been fucking boss, and done proper justice to the RCAF.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 8, 2011 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Ten bucks they come out with arctic camo 3rd jerseys in the next few years...
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
I'm warmed up to this RCAF themed thing the Thrashers are doing
But yes, grey jerseys would’ve been pretty cool. Maybe with a hint of blue in the grey (so that the jersey’s wont be as dull as the Jets’ season), but they went all generic with their jerseys.
It’s like something you’d see in one of EA’s NHL games in the “Create a Team” mode. Wait a second…
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
That logo just sucks. It’s boringly modern and also instantly dated, no mean feat.
If they kept it old school with the classic logo and RCAF bullseye behind it, that would have been cool.
Picklesnakebit since 2011.
@shampeon
I love the two-tone jet design.
I DON’T like how it’s pasted over the Maple Leaf though. It feels cluttered, and blocks out a national symbol. It’d be like if someone pasted a tank over an eagle.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I really dislike the maple leaf. Yes, True North, we are well aware that Winnipeg is in Canada. Your fans make sure to reiterate that, as many times as possible. Though if you take the maple leaf off, there’s absolutely nothing to look at.
I just think that there’s a serious lack of… interest in their jersey. They didn’t go unique with the colors or jersey design (Pittsburgh, Panthers, Blue Jackets) and the logo, while a nice reference to the RCAF, is ridiculously bland.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Remember how quickly these were drawn up though.
Remember that initial Columbus logo shaped like a bee? Didn’t last too long. XD I don’t expect either the logo or jersey design to stick. I think what we’ll ultimately see is an RCAF fighter jet with a maple leaf decal on it, or the Avro Arrow. To my understanding, that plane was so good that it could have been used in service today. It’s a damn shame they scrapped it, but the plane still stands as a huge Canadian aviation achievement. I mean, just look at it, it’s not hard to make a logo of this plane.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
The old Jets logos sucked.
There, I said it.
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Won't disagree. So boring.
The Nordiques though? Fucking loved their branding. More for the Fleur De Lis pattern than the logo, but eh.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. The Fleur De Lis was something different. I like it.
But yeah, that logo kind of sucks too, IMO. “Hey, it has a crappy looking over-simplistic stick and puck and almost looks like an igloo and together it kind of looks like an ‘n’!”
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
I always imagined
it was an elephant playing hockey
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
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If we all cared as much as Kent Huskins the world would be a better place.
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Darn....
…ohwell! Atleast we still have McGinn & Ferriero. LoL
Go Big or Go Home
by ChangoT on Sep 8, 2011 8:19 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
That's great for Welly!
I wanted him to stick around as well but realistically there was no room for him. I wish him the best of luck with his new team.
With that said, Go Sharks!
I love me some hockey, need me some hockey!
Frisbee aight but it ain’t no hockey!
This is encouraging news!
I for one am glad he decided to go get a deal done with another NHL team. He was money for us last year and I for one was really disappointing that he didn’t fit in with the new style of play the Sharks are going for this year. As time has gone on this summer, article after article on countless sites have talked about Wellwood; how he could have ended up back in the KHL. I for one am glad he doesn’t have to go through that shitstorm again. He was an excellent pickup and deserves a spot on an NHL roster. I’m happy he didn’t get thrown under the bus again.
I would have picked Columbus myself, but I look forward to seeing the Jets play the Sharks this years.
Cheers to Wellwood.
by Dermal Denticles on Sep 8, 2011 8:34 PM PDT reply actions
I also can’t spell tonight, it’s been a long day. The grammar leaves something to be desired too. Please ignore that.
by Dermal Denticles on Sep 8, 2011 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Sad face
I liked Wellwood
"I think every quarterback should believe they’re the best. Do I think there are better quarterbacks than me? Possibly. But would I take anyone else with the ball in their hands at the end of the game? I don’t think so." - Ben Roethlisberger-
No surprise this year
Well I guess the 3rd and 4th lines are set now…
Ferriero Handz Mitchell
McGinn Desjardin Murray
Go Big or Go Home
by ChangoT on Sep 8, 2011 8:50 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Clearly a win-win for Wellwood and the Jets.
Wellwood gets a job and half of Buffinmahcar’s munchie stash.
The Jets get their center and a guy who’ll help keep Byfuglien’s weight down.
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Byfuglien's a lightweight.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 8, 2011 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It’s great marketing!
No one will make Buff is fat jokes when they can make Wellwood is fat jokes!
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Who will eat who first!?
Hockey is like a box of choclates. But not really, hockey is way better.
"Who throws an umbrella!?" - Randy Hahn.
Ha! Nice.
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
I liked Wellwood
I understand he just didn’t fit our new system, but damn, I wanted him back.
On the bright side, I now have a reason to buy a Jets jersey…
"Yell at me all you want, but I've seen enough movies to know that cutting a hole in the back of a raft MAKES IT GO FASTER!" - Troy from Community.
ok I wasn't on the "sign wellwood" wagon
but $700K???? holy damn. I would have done that in a heartbeat.
I think Kyle will file for bankruptcy by seasons end. There is no way in hell that salary will support his eating habits.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 8, 2011 9:58 PM PDT reply actions
Question
To sign a player as a free agent, does he have to be signed before the start of training camp or season to be a part of the team. Or can you wait to sign a free agent (if still available) before Febuary if you want? I just don’t understand if after the season starts you have wait to sign players and can only trade or both if you want/can?
that’s one of the reasons people such as myself wanted him back. we basically could have always gotten him that cheap. the whole “he doesn’t fit the style and direction the team is going in this season” is a sorta cop out bs excuse.
by dannyschmanny on Sep 9, 2011 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions
except for the 50player max thing interfering with another player being brought onto the roster (although it shouldnt be too hard to bury someone in another league or just dropkick greis back into germany…haha)
wellwood could have been real good trade bait come deadline time, too. I still am optimistic that we will be able to get what is needed at the deadline, though.
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions
If practically no one has been willing to sign him over the past two seasons
as a UFA, who’s supposed to trade assets for him?
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
the fact that he only costs $700K, will be a UFA next season, and could fill a role plenty of teams are looking for. I’m not saying he would be the only piece of a trade, but him+a pick or prospect could equal something significant
"I love inside jokes. I'd love to be apart of one someday." - Michael Scott
My pathetic excuse of a Twitter account: http://twitter.com/santacruzsharks
by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions
He's not even that fat.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 8, 2011 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions
But no, he actually is.
Where the HELL does that speed come from? Must be a Taurus thing – I’m a little chubby too, but can still keep up playing college soccer.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 8, 2011 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions
He doesn't have speed though...
He just has quickness that makes you think he does.
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com - Where masochism is defined.
I rushed the Furd's farm in 2009
www.californiagoldenblogs.com - Where Cal grads prove they learned something.
I don't understand this reoccurring claim that Wellwood has speed.
You need to move in a straight line to have speed, something that Wellwood doesn’t do very often.
"Coach H seems like a great coach so far. He brings a lot of energy and always has a method for why he does the things he does. If he could, I think he'd want to be God." —Patrick Willis.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 9, 2011 2:15 AM PDT up reply actions
It's a momentum thing
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
by Bockerz on Sep 9, 2011 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Pretty sure that's an old picture.
I don’t think he ever wore a cast on his leg as a Shark.
When he came back to the States after the KHL, there was an interview that referenced the “Wellwood is fat” jokes. His response was, summarily, “When I got injured, I let myself go. It took a while, but I’m back in shape” and though he didn’t say the next bit, I like to pretend that he did, “and I’m certain I weigh less than the keyboard warriors who say otherwise.”
Winnipeg is still in the east
and mostly made up of ex-Thrashers. I think we’re safe on this one.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
I'm talking more about our third and fourth lines underperforming.
I’m not sold on Murray or McGinn.
I’m not sold on Ferriero, Sheppard, Murray, McGinn, Desjardin, or anybody else they have in mind from the farm team.
Go Big or Go Home
by ChangoT on Sep 8, 2011 10:47 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
So you’ve said about a hundred times and at least a half-dozen times tonight, including repeatedly in this thread. Mostly with the tag that they’re “unproven.”
How exactly do you expect players to gain experience without playing time?
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Win the Cup.
"Now get on board going down the river float, we gonna raise a ruckus tonight" - OCMS
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
by Mr. Plank on Sep 9, 2011 1:26 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How exactly do you expect players to gain experience without playing time?
They need to show that they’re good soldiers while being scratched, and then when they are played, be played out of position. Heaven help them if they don’t immediately score at a torrid pace, or else they’ll never start.
At least, that’s the Bruce Bochy method.
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
by mymclife on Sep 9, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
So you’d rather have Wellwood than any of those guys?
I mean, Wellwood was good… but he’s not exactly Setoguchi. I feel like those guys can step in and do the job Wellwood did. The guys you listed haven’t really been given a shot with regular minutes. They’ve played sporadically… and haven’t done too badly.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Yes, absolutely
Wellwood wasn’t Seto, but he was a big step better than any of the Worchester crowd.
by warning on Sep 9, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe last year
I’m not denying that. I was really glad to have him on the team last year.
But this upcoming season? Then, no. I mean, I wasn’t opposed to seeing him getting resigned. But I don’t feel it’s a terrible loss that he’s not on the team now. I’m not sure I can safely say he’s a “big step” better than the Woostah crowd.
There were moments when Wellwood absolutely disappeared. And the younger AHL guys really haven’t gotten a shot.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
The Thrashers were decent last year
They essentially reversed seasons with the Sharks last year… which was great for the Sharks, but doomed the Thrashers to Siberia.
They’ll be relevant in the East if they add some more pieces. Maybe fan support will help. But the can scrape by and squeak in if they get a bit lucky.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
It's a little nerve wracking to me
but necessary to give Ferriero and co a chance to grow. With 49 players and no top 6 fwd prospects (?) I think some players in their mid 20’s need to step up and start producing or be traded/replaced. I’m just glad this whole Wellwood thing is over. In the end it’s better for the team. I still want DW to sign a 3rd line PKing sound playmaker but I fight to say, not until later in the season.
Personally the team I want to see isn’t gonna happen anyway because I can’t see anyone taking Seto’s place yet, except maybe Sheppard…… no?…. No.
But what if Macintyre steps up, can Mitchell play on the left side?
Marleau-Thorton -(7th fwd) *Ferr….. Shep…. Wing……….?
Clowe -Couture -Havlat
Mitchell-Pavelski – Macintyre *or DW might sign someone
McGinn-Handzus-Dejardins
*and then make some trades later to make the team even stronger.
A playmaker and a 7th fwd, pretty much the set up from last year. But we didn’t have Handzus and I really think McGinn or Mitchell could be traded if they don’t step it up. Hopefully the team can find someone who can move up to the top lines eliminating that want for a 7th fwd (for those of us who have it).
But in the end like most people have been saying, Handzus will most likely be centering the 3rd with Pav on one of the top 2. Killing my dream team but… at least the team is finally that much closer to being set and the season now just less then a month away.
I think Wingels on the top line would be a waste of his talents personally..
But seriously, as much as I loved Seto, he isn’t an irreplaceable talent on the team because he didn’t create offense. Joe Thornton creates offense, and Seto cashed in on his play-making ability. Pavs will be great on the top line and someone will step up into that third line role, I am very confident of this.
"Coach H seems like a great coach so far. He brings a lot of energy and always has a method for why he does the things he does. If he could, I think he'd want to be God." —Patrick Willis.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 9, 2011 2:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree, Seto is replaceable – Heatley was replaceable as well. Losing both of them at the same time will hurt, of course, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as bad as people is making it out to be.
Pavs deserves (needs) to be playing on one of the top two lines. He is way, way, way too good to have as a 3rd line center. I think Couture is going to end up on Thornton’s wing with Pavs centering Havlat and Clowe and I think the Sharks top 6 are as good or better as any top 6 in the league.
Handzus is a typical 3rd line center and will be very good in that role. Mitchell is also a good 3rd line winger. Between McGinn, Wingels, MacIntyre, Ferriero, Murray, Mashinter, etc. – McLellan will find someone who will fit the other wing. If the 3rd line isn’t working, the Sharks have time and assets to make a trade.
The top 6, Defense and goaltending are way more than good enough to carry this team for quite a while.
Pavs also had two fairly sizable slumps last season and still played into his highest point total ever. If being with the top 6 keeps those slumps away from him, he could have an absolutely monster season.
And I agree about the trade situation. Especially being so close to the limit of contracts, it seems like a no-brainer that a couple of younger players will be packaged together to send out if it’s needed. There’s even some likely candidates in guys who are in limbo on the depth chart (such as Braun) or guys who might need a change of scenery to finish developing (possibly McGinn). But the team is unlikely to get off to last year’s start again, which means there’s a couple months to give the kids a chance before shuffling them off if necessary.
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
Don’t the Sharks need Braun for injury assurance if one of the three puck moving defensemen get injured or need some maintenance days? Especially in the post season where the intensity of play seems to drive up the number of injuries (as we saw last year).
by Bearodactyls on Sep 9, 2011 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
I want the Sharks to keep and use Braun, but I could still see him being the defenseman moved if any young defenseman is getting moved. And if Doherty or Petrecki excels this year, it probably becomes even more likely.
Believing in the Sharks, one photoshop at a time. GO SHARKS!
If any go
I’d like to see Petrecki go. I know most fans love Petrecki, I just don’t see it. I think Braun should be held on to instead. If Braun isn’t ready by the post season I think DW should find a better back up just in case Demers, Burns or Boyle get injured.
Braun's a much better trade chip though
He’s basically ready to be a #6 defensemen or higher on a lot of NHL squads. Not so much with Petrecki.
Yeah
but I’m done with the Sharks giving up any more players like Braun for a while. I’d rather get less in the short term since we’re talking a 4th solid puck moving defensemen behind Demers in the playoffs. I think Braun is worth too much in the long run (2-3 years).
Just out of curiosity...
How much have you actually watched Petrecki play? The guy is like 21. I think we may be giving up on him a tad too soon.
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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Braun needs to stay,
White and Vandermeer are on 1-year contracts, and I don’t expect either to play full-time. The three will rotate, and Braun will inheirit the spot if he’s ready for it.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
"Those of you who volunteered to be injected praying mantis DNA, I have some good news and some bad news: bad news is we've postponed these test indefinitely. Good news is we've got a much better test for you: fighting an army of mantis men! Pick up a rifle and follow the yellow line. You'll know when the test starts."
by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
The play that sticks out to me for Seto is when Jumbo made his no-look beautiful pass from behind the net and Seto one-timed it from the slot. I mean, he has a wicked shot but he wasn’t the engine that kept our offense going.
"Coach H seems like a great coach so far. He brings a lot of energy and always has a method for why he does the things he does. If he could, I think he'd want to be God." —Patrick Willis.
by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 9, 2011 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I think it’s going to be WAY easier to replace Wellwood than to replace Seto or Heatley.
While Seto may have banked on Jumbo creating a lot of chances, he was the one with the shot to put them in the net. Both he and Heatley were streaky, and that was what may make them seem easier to replace.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I think Seto and Heatley have already technically been replaced in the top 6 forward group w/ Havlat and Pavs…really, the Sharks need right now is a 3rd line winger and you’re right, I really don’t think it’s going to be that hard to find one – either in the guys they already have or through a trade if it’s needed.
Then who do we use to replace Pavs?
I don’t think that the Sharks need to immediately look outside of the organization. Give the younger guys a shot, and if need be get a veteran when a deal arises. While the Sharks may not have the best “prospect pipeline”, it’s not like they’ve drafted a bunch of Patrick Stefan’s. There’s a good amount of talent available… why squander it?
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
That would be Handzus – he was signed to be the 3rd line center. Seems to me the Sharks aren’t really going with 3 “scoring” lines to start the season and I’m fine with that.
I don’t think they need to look outside the org. either – I’ve been saying all summer that there are quite a few guys that could step in and produce. I have no problem having the 3rd and 4th lines rounded out with McGinn, Ferriero, Mash, MacIntyre, Murray (who I think is a lock for the 4th line and will be great), Wingels, Desjardin.
I’m one of the few people that is pretty happy with the way the team is set right now. Just saying if the 3rd or 4th lines aren’t working out, getting a3rd/4th line player through a trade isn’t hard.
by milanahalek on Sep 9, 2011 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I’m with you in that sense then. There’s no rush to go out and get some guy for a 3rd/4th line that actually doesn’t seem all that bad to me.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Member of the Torrey Mitchell and Patrick Marleau Fan Club
RIP Atlanta Thrashers. Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
I don't think
Seto is irreplaceable, me wanting a 3rd scoring line without Pavelski is what I find hard to find. I’d like to see one of the younger kids cash in on Thorton’s offense with a solid center for the team to revolve around on each line. But the Sharks haven’t been going that way so.
If anything changes I see Handzus still centering the 3rd line but with two completely different wingers come Feb if McGinn or Mitchell don’t pick it up (Sharks can still easily sign or trade for a top 3rd line winger at any time). Regardless of what I want, Idon’t think we need to equal or better the offensive numbers from last year with the better defense. But I really won’t be happy at least until McGinn (especially) and hopefully Mitchell (I think he might do enough defensively) really pick up their offensive numbers. If they can pick it up offensively, I’m a.o.k with team as it stands right now.
The years with Blake seem to disagree strongly with your theory of no offense being added from the back end.
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I'm not surprised.
It really didn’t look too promising with the Sharks for him, and the KHL incident might have turned him further from taking the chance with an unsure thing. IMHO, he wouldn’t have made the Sharks roster anyway. Glad he took the sure thing. Also gives him a chance to be a part of history; of playing for the “new” Jets, and playing in the SouthEast division on a team quite geographically far removed from the rest of the division.
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San Jose looks to be going for youth on their lower lines to begin the year
Am I the only one who’s not concerned with this?
The team has been getting steadily older and older. In 4 years, a large chunk of this team is going to be past their prime. I think that now’s a good time to get the younger guys some legitimate ice time, given the depth of this team. They also seem to work harder (McGinn), because there’s something to prove. Some competition on those lower lines could produce nice results.
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I'm not worried either
Our Top 6, Defense, and Goaltending should be more than enough to keep us winning in the early part of the year while our young guys get an extended tryout on the lower lines.
Agreed.
Maybe one of the fringe guys can overperform this year and either be promoted or traded away for high picks. Handzus is a great anchor on the middle of the third, and Mitchell can do the same for the fourth… Though I’m intrigued by the upside of Desjardins.
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by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I think the two guys most people seem to dislike the most (Mitchell and McGinn) are the two that I’m most excited to see play.
McGinn is arguably the most energized guy on the ice when he’s out there, and if he tones down that jumpiness just a little bit he’s going to be pretty good. And Mitchell is finally getting back to the level people expected of him before he got hurt.
And I don’t even consider Andrew Murray. He’s much older than the others (29), and he just seems like an AHL guy to me.
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McGinn needs to show he can play three shifts in a row without taking a penalty. I’m all for energy on the 3rd/4th lines, but McGinn is just undisciplined and out of position a good chunk of the time.
Picklesnakebit since 2011.
@shampeon
I won’t argue the out of position bit because I think there’s some validity there, but I think McGinn is getting WAY too much of a rap as taking too many penalties. He only had 15 penalties in 49 games, meaning he was taking them at about the same rate or lower than Clowe, Eager, Mayers, Nichol, and Mitchell.
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Down the stretch he took some really inopportune penalties, and maybe that’s coloring my recollection.
Picklesnakebit since 2011.
@shampeon
He only scored 1 goal last year.
IIRC, he was playing on the first line at the start of the season. That’s problematic.
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by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions
He got called for two rather iffy penalties and got tossed out. He did go through a spell of invisibility, but if he plays hard like he did in the playoffs (which a little more restraint) he’s going to be effective on those lower lines.
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I'm with you.
I really think it’s time to push the kids out of the nest to see who flies.
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by Auth0r on Sep 9, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That’s sound great and all, but we’ve already done that with the guys we’re going to be relying on next year.
Ferriero was given his shot playing with Couture and Clowe for fairly extended periods of time last season.
McGinn has been given plenty of chances on our lower lines, if anything he needs to be given another shot playing on our top 6 but do we really want to do that this year? It would mean dropping Pavs back down to the 3rd line, and it sounds like most of us want to see Pavs in our top 6.
If Mcginn
can’t do it on the 3rd line I doubt he’ll be able to do it on the top 2. I’m really hoping he finds his scoring touch this year cause the season hasn’t even started and I’m already leaning towards the get rid of McGinn wagon.
Who knows how McGinn would do in the top 6, he’d be playing a completely different role. McGinn may be more of a goalscorer than a bottom 6 grinder, though he seems to have adapted to playing on the 4th line.
I hope you're right
Cause from what I read they tried that last year.
He’s been given shifts in the top 6 i’m sure, but he hasn’t played in the top 6 for an extended period of time recently that i can remember.
I wouldn't want
any other coach in the leauge but I think Mclellan shuffles the lines a little too much sometimes. Then again he has made it to the CFs two years in a row so?
And yet, we have significantly more than just those two players as options
Ferriero, McGinn, Mashinter, Desjardins, McCarthy, MacIntyre, Guite, Murray, Sheppard, Wingels, and McLaren at the very least will all be trying for forward roster spots.
Good camps could catapult a few others up the charts, too.
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I know right
Two whole complete lines with an extra center waiting in the wings for chance at a spot. I’ll be happy with just seeing one player out of the 10 extra including the bottom 5 set to start step up to surprise status.
Alright I want to see at least two, I don’t care if I’m pushing it.
I'm somewhat
concerned about the 4th line. Which is why I like the idea of Handzus centering it with Murray backing the team up in case of injury. But then it leaves a huge whole in the 3rd line or top 2 wings. In the end I’m for more balnce. If the team can find a better way to balance the old with the new, my concern will be none at all.
And McGinn is still a huge question mark regardless of competition so I think there’s a right to be concerned there.
The 4th line will get less than 10 min a night…and that 10 min is about 6 more than they got last year!
Zeus is a very, very good 3rd line center, who can play 17 or 18 minutes a night, he was signed to play that role – he won’t be on the 4th line very often if at all.
Is he really a “very, very good 3rd line center”? Pavelski, Jordan Staal, Dave Bolland, now those guys are very, very good 3rd line centers.
Zeus is a very, very good PKer and a good defensive forward, but a very mediocre 3rd line center imo.
Staal is a 3rd line center when Crosby and Malkin aren’t out with injuries, and Pavelski was one last year.
Really? Just because they play on the 3rd line means they’re 3rd liners? There’s a reason Handzus was brought in and it was to get Pavs back where he belongs – in the top 6.
When you’re a center who plays regularly on the 3rd line, you’re a 3rd line center. Dave Bolland and Brooks Laich are both good enough to play in the top 6 for a lot of teams but they’re still 3rd liners. They’re just really good 3rd liners.
If they're not in the top 60 centers in the league
then you can call them a 3rd line center. Otherwise you’re saying that whatever trash Pittsburgh trots out each year to play on Crosby’s wing because they don’t pay for wingers are “1st line or top 6 wingers” when half or more have had 3rd line talent.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
You know...
by this logic, Murray is a #2 defensemen.
Actually, this is going to be fun…
Andrew Ladd is a top line winger.
Trevor Daily is a #1 defensemen.
Brian Elliot is a #1 goalie.
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According to Ron Wilson
Jody Shelley was a top line winger right when we traded for him.
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Serious question
If the team still had Seto, where do you think Pav or him would fit in now with Handzus?
IMO
Marleau – Thornton – Seto
Clowe – Couture – Havlat
Handzus – Pavs – Mitchell/Mcginn/Ferriero/whatev
Oh damn.
Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi
Clowe-Couture-Heatley
McGinn-Pavelski-Havlat
Murray-Handzus-Mitchell
Desjardins/Ferriero
Vlasic-Burns
Murray-Boyle
White-Demers
Vandermeer/Braun
Niemi
Niitymaki
Totally doesn’t fit under the cap, but sick line-up. Cup team right there :P
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I’d put Pavs back as 3rd line center, and we’d have an epic 3rd line that we could play against the other team’s best players.
My opinion of Pavs is apparantly not on par w/ most Sharks fans. To me, he’s Ryan Kesler w/o the skating and I think he needs to be in the top 6 – to me, he should be close to a 80+ point player.
If the Sharks still had Seto they either wouldn’t have picked up Havlat or Zeus so it’s kinda hard to pretend…but I might try to put Havlat on the 3rd w/ Zeus.
With how the
team stands now I can see McL taking a look at the team with Havlat on the 3rd with Zus and Mitchell/McGinn. On his highlight reels he looks so damn smooth and the son of a bitch is fucking fast!
In the end I think Havlat could end up being a monster poacher playing next to Thorton this year.
I kind of agree with the Kesler comparison skill-wise, though at least last year Kesler was much better at capitalizing on his chances. Kesler’s shooting percentage last year was 15.8% while Pavs’ was 7.1%. I think that was a career high for Kesler and a career low for Pavelski though.
I definitely think Pavelski is more than capable of being a point per game player. He’s only had one full 82 game season but i think if he can play for 82 games then he can score 80+ points.
I agree
with milanahalek that Pav can score 80+ playing on the top lines. And if he does or when, I’ll probably be singing a different tune. Watching the Canucks series we lacked a true shut down line (which I think was a part of all the damn 3rd period melt downs, same thing with Det) and Pav was kind of caught in the middle. In so many of the games it just looked like the team was on their heels not knowing exactly what to do but still trying to do everything at the same time (especially when injuries came into play). Hopefully Handzus becomes that anchor on offense that sets the team up and holds it down.
I don’t at all think 80 points is out of the realm of possibility for Pavs at all. That’d only be a 14 point improvement over what most people considered a “down” year.
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Pavs wins the Art Ross maybe?
:D
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by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
But that’s actually very difficult to do, especially if you’re not getting 1st line minutes. And his “down” year was also a career best.
There were only a handful of players last year with 80+ points on the 2nd line. It’s possible, but Pavs would have to improve his shooting percentage and have a line-mate who gets hot.
Picklesnakebit since 2011.
@shampeon
@milanahalek
You’re not worried about his speed on the 3rd line come playoffs?
O.k
I just remember him always being the last one back when we played L.A last year. Sort of like Heatley. With Zus I thought shit he’s really good on the PK but he’s so slow 5 on 5. I don’t think we got any faster in the end (Seto-Havlat, Heatley-Handzus) so not having more speed on the team is still a big concern to me.
I'm not concerned.
Havlat is faster than Seto. Seto was traded for Burns, not Havlat, who adds speed and mobility to our blueline (people seem to constantly forget how slow and immobile or backend was, and that “team speed” counts there as well as in your forward group). Heatley had the turning radius of a freight train, which is I guess offset by Handzus.
So again, as I have said in the past, its a wash, if not an improvement in foot speed. And our puck-moving ability has been increased a great amount, making the team faster in general (see: Vancouver 2010-2011. Were they really that fast individually, or did they just have the ability to speed up the game with good puck possession?)
My biggest concern is still on the PK and who will fill a spot on the 3rd/4th line to add depth if the rookies don’t all exceed expectations.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 8:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not concerned about the PK at all. The Sharks have plenty of forwards who can PK and a defensemen who are much better on the PK as well. Also, now that Yawney’s gone, I’m guessing it’ll be much better.
I don’t want to see our top guys out with the most PK time per game when they already are expected to produce 5v5/PP.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 10, 2011 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Pavs and Marleau are going to get PK time whether the fans want them to or not – they’re both good PKers.
Zeus, Murray, Mitchell, Couture, Thornton will all get PK time as well. I’m sure they’re going give Desjardins some time to see how he does too.
All 6/7 d-men will be used on the PK as well.
Hopefully, with that many guys that can PK, it’ll lower the ‘top’ guys SHTOI.
the only different players on that list from last year are Zeus and Murray (other than Des). Murray honestly isn’t likely to play the majority of the season anyway. This offseason we lost Nichol and Mayers, both guys who had significant SHTOI. So from that standpoint, I don’t exactly see our top guys spending less time short handed. I’m not saying we need to eliminate their SHTOI completely, because your point is valid that we need their skill for special teams, however I will remain adamant that their time still needs to be lowered significantly.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 11, 2011 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
wow. My grammar and use of punctuation is atrocious. School really needs to start again…
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 11, 2011 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions
In our case, we need players with complementary speed, not just random players with wheels. Clowe and Couture aren’t super fast, but once they gain the zone they can cycle well. So having Burns or Boyle leading the attack to gain the zone is important.
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Just a question
Does anyone know if we tried to keep Ian White at all?
Why would we?
We have three OFD in Boyle, Demers and Burns.
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by Evil Stanchion on Sep 9, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions
If we kept White we could’ve then used Braun or Demers as trade bait.
I wonder if Minnesota would’ve taken Demers, Coyle and a 1st for Burns, you gotta think they would’ve. We could’ve then kept Seto and we’d be super stacked.
Marleau-Thornton-Seto
Clowe-Couture-Havlat
Mitchell-Pavelski-Handzus
Desjardins-Murray-McGinn
Boyle-Murray
Burns-Vlasic
White-White
Braun
How sick would that team be? Plus we could’ve had the very racist ‘White Power’ 3rd pairing.
minnesota would not have taken demers. there need was in scoring and seto fulfilled that. plus, setogouchi has much higher trade value than demers.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Demers>Seto
Much more valuable in my opinion.
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by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 9, 2011 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions
valuable to the sharks in particular maybe, however I don’t see him as having even close to the same trade value as seto.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions
It seems like stud defensemen are harder to come by than stud wingers, no?
Especially considering Demers’ age and development, and Seto’s inconsistencies.
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by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 10, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Although Setogouchi has been inconsistant throughout his career, he has still proven himself and made his presence much more known in the NHL than Demers. Plus, as I said before, there is absolutely no reason the Wild would have accepted a trade for Demers instead of Setogouchi.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 11, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
WHY DOES SBNATION SPELLCHECK SUCK SO BAD
inconsistent*
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 11, 2011 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Just use chrome or firefox, they have spellcheck built in.
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Demers as trade bait? I don’t think so.
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Seto
can maybe still get better but with the team you could see that he wasn’t probably gonna grow that much more with the current conditions. To me Demers and Braun are the Sharks most valuble assets outside of the top 8 and shouldn’t be traded.
It would suck to lose him, but he would’ve been instantly replaced with Ian White, and we could’ve then kept Seto. We’d be hurting our future a bit but overall we’d be breaking about even since keeping Seto is good for our teams future.
If we could have the same team we have now, except with Seto still on the team and Demers replaced with Ian White (who is an upgrade imo) we would certainly be a much better team.
Jason Demers has about a third the points of Ian White in about a quarter of the games, not to mention already having more career hits and a little under half the career blocked shots. Demers’ pace on those stats is pretty clearly superior.
Last year (since I don’t know of anywhere that tracks career stats for these), White had more takeaways and fewer giveaways. Their time on ice averages were almost a wash with 60 second difference favoring White at evens and Demers owning a 1 second advantage on the PP and 20 seconds on the PK.
White’s a good player who fits well in our system, as is Demers. Overall though, I’d give a slight edge to Demers at the moment because he’s 4 years younger, 3 inches taller, and generally owns a better productivity pace. If he continues on his trend, by 27 (White’s age now) he’ll be leaps and bounds ahead of White.
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Ian White has been bounced around a lot lately. He was on 3 different teams this year so he wasn’t really able get any momentum goin.
White looked great during the playoffs, I believe he was scoring at a point per game pace up until around halfway into the 2nd round.
I dunno i’ve liked Ian White for a while now and I wanted us to trade for him like 2 years ago. I think he’s super underrated and I think if he can stay on a good team for a full season he can easily score 40-50 points. He’ll probably be doing that in Detroit next season unfortunately.
White’s production last year when bounced around (26 points) was actually pretty close to his average NHL production (which is 27 when only considering full seasons). Demers’ production was 24 points last year.
Could White score 40? Possibly, since he scored 36 in the past while splitting a year between Toronto and Calgary. But when his career stats are looked at in comparison to Demers’ much shorter career, his point production outside of that single season is almost identical and his defensive numbers are weaker.
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Yeah but he’s always played on crappy teams and he just seems like a guy who can really turn it on and play like a badass when he wants to.
I think if he’s on a good playoff team he’s going to be in badass mode the whole time and finally reach the 40 – 50 point mark, but we’ll see i guess.
Either way Seto + White > Demers considering we’re in cup or bust mode (or as close as we’ll ever get to that).
How are you keeping Seto at the cost of Demers?
Minnesota wanted goalscoring. Not a PMD.
This is like the ultimate if your aunt had balls discussion. Burns>Seto. Therefore he’s gone.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
I think that lost in this debate is the defensive capabilities of the two players as well.
Ian White is definitely a really solid offensive defenseman, but Demers has so much more upside as a shutdown player than White. I think Demers will be a really good all around defenseman, and White doesn’t really have that capability, partly due to height, but also that’s just not his game.
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by SanFranciscoKnights on Sep 11, 2011 2:08 AM PDT up reply actions
You can look
at a lot of defensmen older then Demers and say they’re an upgrade. For what Seto produced last year he’s actually getting overpaid now regardless of his playoff preformance. Demers will keep playing on the 3rd line and continue to grow, increasing his value to the team, on the market and help the team’s cap.
The team is rolling the dice to win a cup this year but in the end Seto was the best move because he was the most expendable (for Burns) on offense. And minny wanted offense.
But anyway to start giving up players with potential high ceilings who can play on any team at such a young age, that still need years of devlopment just to keep a player like White? Those are moves that can add up to playoff cup contending suicide.
The Wild desparately needing scoring, there’s no way they would’ve taken Demers instead of Seto – I’d also rather have Demers than White.
Seems like they could use some scoring from the backend as well. Zidlicky is pretty much the only legit offensive defenseman they have and he’s getting old.
They’d be crazy to say no to a deal of Demers, Coyle, and a 1st considering they were going to lose Burns in free agency next year anyways.
Seto, Coyle, and a 1st is a crazy haul for a 1 year rental, swapping Demers for Seto shouldn’t make much of a difference. Plus i’m sure many would argue (and already have) that Demers is more valuable than Seto anyways.
Minny want results now
not a couple years from now. And if we wouldn’t have given them the offense they wanted and demanded some other team would have.
If I was their GM I would be like “You want me to give you my defensemen who scored 17 goals last year who is about to enter the prime of his career for a younger defensemen who nobody know how he’ll really turn out!?!……. click!”. Burns then gets traded to Detroit.
I think you're vastly overvaluing Demers
Setoguchi has put up 30 goals, and consistantly makes it to 20. He’s fast, he’s big, he loves to shoot. Demers is a developing defensemen who isn’t that big or fast, doesn’t have a hard shot.
I love Demers and think he’ll develop but he has nowhere near the trade value as Seto. No chance in hell they take that trade.
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plus it would be a complete overload of right handed shooting defenseman.
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 8:05 PM PDT up reply actions
They
told him that he’d have to take a pay cut and play under Demers if he wanted to stay.
J/K
Power Play units
So this is my best guess
PP1
Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski
Burns, Boyle
PP2
Clowe, Couture, Havlat
Vlasic, Demers
Go Big or Go Home
what do you think the chances are of putting pavs on the point on the PP like we did occasionally last year?
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by tealstherealdeal92 on Sep 9, 2011 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the power play units will be a bit of a chemistry experiment for a while – I don’t Vlasic will be getting too much PP time. They might try to use him but if his shot or his ability to get his shot through to the net hasn’t improved he won’t last lont.
White & Vandermeer both have very good/heavy shots, they might experiment with them as well. I do think Handzus will be used which means that Pavs and / or Marleau could be playing on the point.
Er....Vlasic should not be on PP...
Marleau-Thornton-Couture
Burns-Boyle (PP1)
Clowe-Pavelski-Ferriero/new 3rd liner who can score
Havlat-Demers (PP2)
I would rather have Havlat than Pavs on the point…the Pavs PP experiment didn’t work out too well if I remember correctly…
Go Sharks!
the Pavs PP experiment
Experiment? He’s been on the point for the last 3 years.
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2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
For the love of Stalock
IF THERE ARE 4 FORWARDS ON THE POWER PLAY THIS SEASON, I’M GOING TO SCREAM!
Patty and Pavs on the point are not particularly more effective compared to having a defenseman, and our current D-corp. has Boyle, Burns and Demers. Vlasic is fine to man another point, and eventually, Braun is going to beat out Vandermeer for a slot on the team.
Playing more forwards to not get results and give up shorthanded goals with the team comprised as is is just a poor use of players on the roster (which I suppose is a McLellan specialty).
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I definitely agree with you for this years team.
We need Pavs as a PP forward.
I was okay with it when we had an extra top 6 forward (Gooch, Manny to a certain extant) but I’d rather see Vlasic get some PP time over Handzus, Ferriero McGinn or any of our other bottom 6 forwards.
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2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
last I looked at our defense, neither Braun nor Vandermeer have a slot on the team. White stole it, and he’ll be hard to beat out for one.
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That PP last year that was using forwards to “not get results” was 2nd best in the league.
And I agree with ED, Braun is, unfortunately, #8 on the depth chart now.
by milanahalek on Sep 11, 2011 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions
It’s been a while since I could say this… but holy shit I love our defense right now.
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by Evilducks on Sep 11, 2011 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
From watching
Havlat highlights I think you might be right. I’d like to see if this can work out.
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