Darren Dreger calls San Jose Sharks a "strong contender" for Rick Nash
by Mr. Plank on Feb 22, 2012 12:58 PM PST
in Armchair GM
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PrintThis subject is well worn by now-- we've touched upon Nash to San Jose multiple times over the last week-- but the big names keep mentioning San Jose as a potential destination for Nash to land and it deserves attention considering the ramifications of the potential deal.
This time it's Darren Dreger, a noteworthy member of the power four (Dreger, McKenzie, Lebrun, Friedman) when it comes to trade rumor validity, who is doing the news breaking:
The San Jose Sharks are emerging as a strong contender for Rick Nash. Sources say Columbus initially targeted Logan Couture, but was quickly told that was a non-starter. But, make no mistake, San Jose will stay in the mix until Monday's deadline.
The good news is that Logan Couture is off the table. The bad news is that it would seem as if Joe Pavelski would be the player in question getting moved, barring a complete fleecing by Sharks General Manager Doug Wilson in regards to his current roster assets. As we mentioned before (and others have mentioned as well), Pavelski seems like the logical fit for Columbus if they're looking to get a cheap, impact player that can begin to contribute immediately and still be around when the rebuild comes full circle.
And frankly, that makes me a little nervous.
With a cap hit of $4.0MM, and two years left on that contract, Pavelski is an absolute steal at this stage of the game both from a salary and cap standpoint. As FTF writer Snark SD broke down earlier this month, Pavelski been one of San Jose's best players this season at both taking on tough assignments and coming out smelling like roses:
If you haven't heard yet, Joe Pavelski is beast mode this year. he's currently second in the NHL (>20GP) in CORSI rel QOC, and leading the team in defensive zone starts, while only 2nd to Thornton in raw CORSI for forwards. That's simply AB-surd. You can say what you want about his size and speed, but the guy shows up every game, and it shows in the numbers.
In essence, he's a player who gives you immense value in all three situations-- even strength, power play, penalty kill-- and has a game that transitions extremely well into the postseason when quality of competition picks up and teams begin to throw numerous looks your way. There's nothing here not to like, too much here not to love, and his affordable contract (right there with Marc-Edouard Vlasic's for best on the team) is something that magnifies that ten fold.
Nash doesn't get you that bang for the buck even if he's a more talented player than Pavelski.
Having said all this, there's some other factors to consider. Let's break it down from the top with this year being in our window of exploration. In other words, we are ignoring the long-term ramifications of Nash's cap hit and term and focusing solely on competing for a Stanley Cup this year.
- Current untouchables on San Jose's roster before this year's deadline (read: guys who I think are pretty much as safe as possible from being included in a deal)? Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Antti Niemi, Martin Havlat, Dan Boyle, and Brent Burns. I'd put Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Joe Pavelski in there as an opinion, but I don't know whether or not that fits with what the organization believes so I'll leave them out
- If you lose Pavelski and/or Vlasic in a potential deal for Nash you can probably sell Columbus on some non-roster players-- maybe. It doesn't fit with the reports of what Howson is fishing for, but maybe something can be done in that regard. If you lose a guy like Jamie McGinn or Jason Demers/Justin Braun along with that you are a worse team this season.
- If you move a player like Ryane Clowe, Jamie McGinn, and Jason Demers/Justin Braun for Rick Nash you are a better team this season. If I'm Howson I don't take this deal as it doesn't fulfill the impact player I need to build a team around, but if I'm Doug Wilson I jump at it and make the move if I'm looking to sell out on this year's Cup run.
- If you are able to reduce the number of roster players you're giving up by sending out first round picks by the bushel (next two years? next three years?) you greenlight that sucker quickly as you are a better team this season. It's all about the window, and with San Jose's first round picks relatively less valuable considering they'll be in the high 20's range over that time frame, that is something which will be appealing to the organization.
- If I'm Howson I don't do that, but I'm not Howson so my opinion doesn't really matter.
- I also think it's worth mentioning that Martin Havlat will help alleviate some concerns up front when he returns from injury, but that doesn't have any real relevance to a potential Nash deal.
- I'm going to stick with my assertion that Nash to San Jose doesn't happen-- I think the pieces involved will be too much for San Jose and would have to include Pavelski-- but the more I see about San Jose in the running the more I realize this thing has some serious momentum and isn't as unrealistic as once believed.
- In other words, I might just be sticking with that assertion in order to be consistent. This current losing streak has clouded my impeccable sense of self/ego/narcissism.
- Can Doug Wilson get away with just giving up Clowe (and a package built around him)? I don't think so. But he's done this kind of deal before and Columbus has a history of not meeting expectations. That's intriguing in and of itself.
The NHL Trade Deadline is on Monday at 12 PM Pacific. That gives Wilson five days to figure out what kind of move he's going to make.
Rest assured we'll be watching, buttcheeks clenched, waiting for the shoe to drop.
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My buttcheeks are always clenched.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 1:01 PM PST reply actions 9 recs
I think Snark nailed it last week...
Pavs is TMac’s most trusted forward and with his relatively cheap price tag, you simply can’t move him. If TMac has any say in how the team should be formed, I can’t see how he says “go ahead and trade Pavs for Nash.” Quite frankly (yes, a little biased because Pavs is my favorite player), I wouldn’t do a Pavs for Nash straight up trade.
If a deal does happen, it should start around Clowe. I think Couture has proven to the team that he doesn’t need Clowe to produce and that he will be the teams future.
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
This sums it up.
Pavs is a playoff guy. It makes no sense to give him up for a guy with no PO experience and a bigger contract. If it happens its a Clowe package with picks and maybe a Wingels/Desjardin chaser. McGinn showed us a thing or 2 in the PO’s as well so I don’t see him being part of the deal.
I would rather be happy than right any day.
by SouthBayernMunchen on Feb 22, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far and say Pavelski is a playoff guy.
He was amazing in the Colorado series two years ago but was exteremley average in the Detroit series and then terrible in the Chicago series. Last year he started strong again in the LA series but quickly faded and became a liability. If I’m DW I give Pavelski, Greiss, Braun/Demers and a draft pick or two for Nash and a throwaway guy like Pahlsson.
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
Pavelski is about as good a playoff performer as you’re going to find.
You need to remember he was centering Mitchell & Wellwood all through the playoffs last season.
Hit points per game dropoff from the regular season to the playoffs is .058 pts per game, those players aren’t exactly normal and when you have one you hang onto them.
Clowe is a 'playoff guy' too.
Last two years he has 25 pts in 32 games. I know he took a dumb penalty yesterday but let’s not forget what Clowe means to this team.
THANK YOU
Seriously it seems like people have been ready to throw Clowe under the bus for one bad penalty in which the team collectively played like crap.
He has shown the ability to be a game changer in some key games, and if I remember correctly some around here were calling for him to be the next Captain at certain points last season.
by HeatersLeadingLady on Feb 22, 2012 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah Clowe is way too important to this team. Even if we could trade Clowe for Nash straight up I still don’t know if i’d want to do it. I think trading Clowe would really hurt our team’s character, and that would outdo any benefits Nash might bring over Clowe.
People aren’t throwing Clowe under the bus because of the CBJ game. This shifting to Clowe has happened before that.
People are talking Clowe because of the trio of Couture, Pavelski, and Clowe (the 3 youngest in our top 6), Clowe is the player we’d least want to keep if trading for Nash.
I don’t think anyone is undervaluing what Clowe means to the team, its just of those 3 younger guys to build a trade around, no one wants to give up Couture or Pavs.
i dont think that most people
would agree that clowe for nash is a bad trade. I’d gladly do it.
Nash/ Thornton/Pavelski
Marleau/ Couture/ Havlat
McGinn/Zeus/Moore
Mitchell/Desi/Winchester
Well first of all, we could never get Nash for Clowe straight up, but even if we could I think it could hurt our team’s character/identity/chemistry/etc. to the point that Nash wouldn’t make up the difference.
Clowe seems like an important guy in the Sharks locker room. I can only speculate but he seems like he really helps motivate a lot of guys.
Exactly...more like Clowe needs Couture :)
But shhhh…don’t tell CBJ that.
I would Clowe + Demers/Braun + 1st + whatever other picks/prospects they want
Go Sharks!
This is going to start a riot
I wouldn’t mark Marleau as untouchable. Would anyone really be THAT mad if we traded Marleau + Braun/Mitchell/Demers for Nash? Columbus probably wouldn’t take that deal and Marleau probably wouldn’t waive his NMC, but I sure as hell would try.
Nash for Pavs – NO
Nash for Clowe – YES (and it breaks my heart to say that)
Most likely scenario – No Nash and we give this a go with the team we got and hope Havlat can be the Top 6 we at least half-hoped for.
I don't think Marleau is untouchable because we'd get mad at trading him...
I think Marleau is untouchable (in regards to trading with Columbus) because he has a NMC, and who in their right minds would want to accept a trade there at this point in time??
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Marleau's untouchable because I don't see him waiving to leave San Jose ever.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
That’s the truth of the matter. Imagine if DW approached Marleau with the trade and Marleau said no. It would be sadder than the end of Marley and Me.
Ownership would have to make the choice to be dicks to him
and whatever the trade worked out, it’d probably cost us in goodwill around the players of the league until new ownership came along. (Boyle in Tampa comes to my)
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Also GMSH is looking to get younger, and Patty is old as shit.
"Thank you very much fans and let’s go for the next game together!"
— Lubomir Visnovsky
I rec’d that shit.
He's 32. Haha
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
If we trade Marleau...
Who is going to score goals for us in the Western Conference Finals. Both years now, it seems as though when no one else could pick up their game, Marleau has broken out with huge games, just never enough to lift the whole team. Also, who is going to clinch a trip to the finals by scoring the series winning goal against Detroit? I think that Marleau has done enough to not be mentioned in trades again, but I could be wrong
Vlasic or Pavelski for Nash? (totally worth the slowdown, peeps)
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
by Kazoonole on Feb 22, 2012 1:18 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
One more for good measure
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
by idunno723 on Feb 22, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You’d honestly be better off shipping Couture than Pavelski.
"Thank you very much fans and let’s go for the next game together!"
— Lubomir Visnovsky
I rec’d that shit.
Better off as in still terrible but not as terrible.
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
Sorry guys… Pavelski is great, but he’s not as good as Nash. Tough to blame Nash for playoff performance since he’s NEVER BEEN THERE! He has shown in international competition that he is totally clutch.
Couture on the other hand, has potentially another 6 years of value in him over Pavs, and is still getting better. Not even a question about which you give up.
Nash isn't $3.8 million better.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Nope
Rick Nash was in the playoffs in 2009. Swept in the first round. 1 G, 2 A, -4 in four games.
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Proud Member of the "I Will Cry If Joe Pavelski Is Traded" Club
Quite Frankly
International Competition =/= NHL.
No question Nash is a better player, but his contract is just too terrible to justify shipping out Pavelski. Nash is a scoring winger. Pavelski is a 2 way center. Pavelski is more valuable than Nash.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Exactly. People understand that Nash is the better offensive player than Pavelski, but the Sharks are already top 10 in the league on Goals For, the problems with the team isn’t really scoring at the moment, its about team defense and of course PK. Pavs is a better 2 way player, and that is what the Sharks need.
lol making the assumption that Nash is a superstar.
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 5:45 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is one of those rare occasions where i applaud a comment.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
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Not at all.
Couture is 22 and is on pace for almost 80 points. He is the single most important asset for the Sharks going forward.
I wouldn't put Havlat in the untouchable category.
Yes, he’s injured, but it’s not a big unknown. He hasn’t really worked out. Havlat + (mitchell or demers) + pick would be a big upgrade potentially. CBJ would be filling out the roster with a replacement plus some youth/future.
Very interesting that they traded for a goalie prospect today. Confirms what I have been thinking that they are NOT looking for a name-goalie as return for Nash (too risky).
The only way that Havlat is the center of a trade for Nash,
is if Nash has explicitly said that San Jose is the only team he’ll accept a trade to…
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Havlat isn’t getting traded because he has no value to any other team right now. If Columbus wants to rebuild they want young players and Havlat doesn’t do that for them.
Plus, his injury history.
Point is, stop with the “Havlat should be traded” talk. It’s flat out not happening this year.
"The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole
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by Mr. Plank on Feb 22, 2012 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Havlat
Has a NTC…I really wish people would realize he won’t waive it to go to Columbus is Howson was every dumb enough to even take him back in a trade.
So yes, Havlat’s not going to be traded.
Once you waive an NTC, it’s waived. He doesn’t have one anymore.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
That wasn’t the case with Dany Heatley, was it?
by meetyourmako on Feb 22, 2012 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
Technically
You’re correct but it is very, very, very rare that the team acquiring the player w/ the NTC doesn’t honor it. Same thing happened w/ Heatley.
Well, that’s the info I got from Bob McKenzie. Once it’s gone, it’s gone.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
Heatley’s contract pretty much proves that’s not true. He waived his NTC to come to San Jose and still had it when he was traded from San Jose, Wilson honored the NTC when he took on Heatley’s contract.
Like I said, technically, that’s how it works – once you waive it it’s gone. However, it’s very rare that player won’t get ‘a promise’ from the acquiring team that they will honor the NTC. I don’t see why Havlat would be any different.
To maintain their NTC or NMC, a player must state in writing that them waiving for a deal is a one time occurrence. Heatley must have done that.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 3:04 PM PST up reply actions
Is it possible the Sharks came to an agreement with him after he was traded to reinstate a modified NTC? Or would that have to be done at the time he signed his contract.
I believe it’s gone for that year. Or at least that was my take with Heater
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Feb 23, 2012 9:18 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
NTC
Here’s info from capgeek:
If a player waives a clause to accept a trade to a new team, it is rare he will do so without a promise that the acquiring team will continue to honour the clause. Brad Richards, when traded from Tampa Bay to Dallas in 2007-08, is an example of this. However, if the player is traded before a clause has kicked in, that clause is automatically ruled void.
I asked them specifically about Havlat and they said unless they get 100% confirmation that the NTC is still in place they won’t include it…the same thing happened when Heatley was traded, his NTC didn’t show on capgeek for a very long time – but it came with him.
Seeing as Wilson / Sharks won’t comment on this kind of thing, I’m not sure anyone will know for sure for quite a while.
by milanahalek on Feb 23, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Do you guys go out for drinks on Friday nights or something? :P
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
He also still has that pesky NTC, correct?
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Havlat could get move for the purposes of making a deal work. We could trade a boatload of futures for Nash but we’d have to unload some cap space, and Havlat could do that for us.
There’s no way Howson is dying to get his hands on Havlat, but he’s not a bad player and i don’t think he’d refuse to take him if he were thrown in a deal.
If DW could dump Havlat for Nash, I will devote 4 years of unpaid labor to the Doug Wilson for President 2016 campaign.
Doug Wilson
First Canadian president of the USA
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
Fleecing hockey teams? So 2005.
Canadian POTUS? Doug Wilson will have fleeced the Constitution.
I’m Doug Wilson and I approve this message.*
*okay, not really
Rated M for McGinn.
We didn't trade for a "goalie prospect"
McElhinney is on IR and is a UFA at the end of the year, and isn’t expected play again this season (abdominal surgery). If the Jackets re-sign him at all this summer it will most likely be to fill the AHL/2nd backup role that Curtis Sanford was signed this year to be.
He was thrown in to clear up a roster spot for the Coyotes. Today’s deal was a salary-dump of Vermette’s contract.
If you want Nash (and I’m not saying “you” do, more the “royal you”), you’re going to have to give up one of your good young players. That’s how these things work. We’re not going to trade Nash unless we get both immediate and long-term impact back. That means someone like Pavelski, if Couture is indeed off the table.
Just my $.02, guys.
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
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"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
If it comes down to a goalie, you’re going to be hard-pressed to trump getting Bernier from LA.
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
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"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
My gut is that Mason is too painful a lesson in putting all your goalie eggs in one basket. No way they trade their biggest asset for something as flakey and unpredictable as a big name goalie. Just ask Philadelphia.
My hope is that they can get Bernier for Carter. Ideally, it would be great to get Bernier and Johnson from LA, but I suspect that doesn’t happen without Nash. My preference is NOT to trade Nash at all.
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
Follow me on Twitter
"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
You don't want Jack Johnson.
He needs a few years in a system where he has to be defensively sound at all times and is punished for not doing so. No one’s ever taught him how to play defense.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Then he’ll fit right in in Columbus. :-)
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
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"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
by Dan P. on Feb 22, 2012 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Also, re: Mason
He’s paying for the sins of Doug MacLean and Scott Howson for never drafting or developing a quality goalie. He got rushed in at age 20, and played all of 3 games above juniors before starting for the Jackets. The worst thing that could have happened for him was getting hot that first year, because he never got the time in the AHL to take him lumps and actually develop. Bonus points also to the Jackets for having effectively no goalies-coach for Mason’s first three years in the league.
Writer for The Cannon - A Columbus Blue Jackets blog
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"I will say anything to be funny, often in the most horrible situations, which is one reason [a] good [woman] so far [has] been very sorry on occasion to have married me." --Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
I agree, and we are all pretty much in agreement that Pavs SHOULD NOT be traded for Nash. I don’t think we have the pieces to make it work that we are also willing to trade, unless its Clowe.
I totally disagree, and would trade Pavs in a heartbeat for Nash. Otherwise this team is just standing still.
So your solution is to take a step back instead of standing still?
"Douglas Murray is a humongous human being." – Drew Remenda
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by Evilducks on Feb 23, 2012 9:21 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions 1 recs
+1
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
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Clowe, Demers, McGinn, Monta Ellis and the Niners 1st round draft pick.
Just don’t give up Pavs or Vlasic.
by djfivenine on Feb 22, 2012 1:38 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
The Giants will also take on any aging, overpaid, below average player as part of the deal.
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"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
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DW will want to keep one eye on this topic and see how it plays out. In my opinion, after DW looks long and hard at this potential deal and what it will take to get Nash to SJ, he’ll realize that it’s just not worth it at this point where the Sharks are at. If we’re having this conversation after the Playoffs and in the off season, then things could very well be much different. I’d rather have Pavs in the PO who’s shown consistency and the ability to score BIG goals for us. Nash has barely any PO experience and with his contract is just too much risk heading into the PO. We need Pavs more than we need Nash, period. And honestly right now, we need a goalie that can stop some pucks for us and some D help.
D dubz would be a God among Gms if Clowe was moved as the centerpiece.
Very unlikely in my opinion, but we’ve seen him work his magic plenty of times before.
"You know what they say about people with big skates......big feet" - Randy Hahn
by DrewRemendaRogaine on Feb 22, 2012 1:46 PM PST reply actions
You don't do this for the long term.
You do it to make a run this year.
Look, I love this team as much as the next guy. It’s a great lineup, full of amazing players. But when I look around at Vancouver, Boston, New York, and yes, even Detroit, I am hard pressed to say that it is as good as the competition. They simply don’t have that “special” element to make it.
If you want to make a run, you need to take the risk and try to acquire that. The bet on this deal is that by pairing up Thornton and Nash (who know each other), you end up with something as “special” as the Sedins. I think that’s a real possiblity, and changes the game.
It’s a deal for today, not tomorrow.
I totally understand about the “today not tomorrow” concept you speak of, just look at the Blackhawks when they won the cup in 2010. They put all their eggs in one basket and it paid off. They then had to dump half their team because of that and yes, Bowman inherited some bad contracts and had to figure that all out but it worked for them that one year. What I can’t get behind 100% is that Nash will give us a better chance today to win the Cup than Pavelski. Pavs has better numbers than Nash right now and I know if Nash came here his numbers would be much better but would he fit into the system in which the Sharks play right now? Will Nash come up big in the PO for us and score BIG, timely goals like Pavs did and does for us? There are just too many risks invovled in my opinion to “win today, not tomorrow”. Plus I just feel Pavs gives us a better shot in the PO then a Nash would.
We wouldn’t be having this conversation if Burns and Havlat lived up to DW’s expectations when we got them.
Chicago is definitely the model here. The reason you don’t trade Couture is that he is your future franchise player if you fail to get the cup in the next couple of years (think Kane, Toews). I think people here are seriously underestimating Rick Nash. I don’t think Pavelski is even comparable to him in terms of talent. If Olympics mean anything (and note that Pavs was also great in the Olympics), Nash will be at least as clutch as Pavs in the playoffs. Environment means a lot – he’s been lost in CBJ.
Chicago is not the model here.
The Sharks do not have multiple top line players on entry level contracts allowing the team to load up until those expire. You could just as easily say this is the Ottawa Senators model, where they have to let guys go to stay under the cap and hope they pick the right ones or they go from SCF to oops, out of the playoffs.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
by Kazoonole on Feb 22, 2012 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rick Nash in the Olympics:
13 Games played, 2 goals, 4 assists
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
If Chicago is the model, then it makes even less sense to ship out Pavelski
Pavelski falls in the category of Toews and Kane: a young player you build around. Nash would be Hossa, the big gun you bring in in Free Agency that causes your cap to explode the following season. And let’s face it, Rick Nash is no Marian Hossa.
GO SHARKS!
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The Chicago model is horde as many reasonable contracts as possible to build depth.
They still had players on entry level deals and first contracts, and so they were able to have a team that was stacked 3 lines deep.
It just so happened that the model produced a Cup in the last year of its window of affordable contracts, therefore forcing a fire sale the next summer.
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And the window was two years.
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Chicago is horde?
Does that make us alliance?
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:09 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Exactly how good is Hossa? I always considered him around Havlat/Clowe/Conolly tier.
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:08 PM PST up reply actions
Woah, seriously?
Shit, I had no idea.
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:14 PM PST up reply actions
Havlat is .814 ppg by comparison
Which is a whole lot better than what a lot of people on these pages would like you to believe.
Winter. Time to eat fat and watch hockey. -- Margaret Atwood
The problem is that this season, it's roughly 12 points in 15 games so far.
:p
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That's... Actually pretty good point production.
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
Really it's 15 in 26
Just too easy to mock the .8 ppg for a guy who’s on pace to play about 35 games.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Oh, I know how great Havlat is.
It REALLY sucks that he’s been injured. IMHO, Sharks are competing for the President’s Choice Trophy or whatever if Havlat is healthy. We’re running away with it if Havlat’s healthy AND we have competent goaltending.
That’s why is pains me so much to see a 6-3 loss to COLUMBUS.
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:24 PM PST up reply actions
I’ve always compared him and Marleau in my head. Both fast, two way players, who can score goals and set up teammates.
Marleau kind of hit his stride later in his career than Hossa did.
But yes, over the last half decade they have been very comparable players.
He actually is…the main reason he’s been moved between the 1st & 2nd lines this year is due to match ups. Couture, as good as he is, can not handle the top line’s in the NHL (yet), the Datsyuk’s, Kopitar’s, Toews, etc. If the other coach is getting the match ups he wants, McLellan has been moving Marleau to Couture’s wing.
It’s been happening quite a bit.
It’s a deal for today, not tomorrow.
I totally understand this logic.
BUT
Pavelski is a proven commodity. Nash is not. All due respect to Nash’s obvious talent, but all the evidence for Nash being a player who can elevate his game centers around his international experience, when he played on stacked teams against lesser competition, and the lockout year when he played with Joe.
That is not enough evidence for me to conclude that he is worth shipping out Pavelski, or that he can go toe to toe with the Western Conference Elite.
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I don't see any scenario that works here
If you move a player like Ryane Clowe, Jamie McGinn, and Jason Demers/Justin Braun it makes
I still don’t think that trade makes the Sharks a better team. Nash is absolutely an upgrade on Clowe, but in this case, the team is now down a top 9 forward and a PMD, both have to be replaced in the lineup and their replacements aren’t currently on the team or in the AHL. If they can also replace them before the TDL that’s one thing, but I also don’t believe for a second Howson would accept that deal, or a deal centered around Clowe, so I guess it doesn’t matter much.
There is no way I would ever trade Pavelski, Vlasic or Couture for Nash, period.
Columbus / Nash are 100% in the drivers seat here, they have no need at all to settle for anything less than a king’s ransom & I really hope they don’t.
by milanahalek on Feb 22, 2012 2:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Nash for Pavs
is what makes the most sense to Howson in my opinion. But I agree with you, Pavs for Nash, no way. I don’t think Nash gets us closer right now to win the Cup than Pavs. Also considering Pav’s track record in the PO and his bang for his buck, it just simply doesn’t seem worth it to trade for Nash in the middle of the season.
Current untouchables on San Jose’s roster before this year’s deadline (read: guys who I think are pretty much as safe as possible from being included in a deal)? Joe Thornton, Patrick Marleau, Logan Couture, Antti Niemi, Martin Havlat, Dan Boyle, and Brent Burns. I’d put Marc-Edouard Vlasic and Joe Pavelski in there as an opinion, but I don’t know whether or not that fits with what the organization believes so I’ll leave them out
I assume youre listing Havlat because his contract is a stinker and with the injury history you doubt there would be much interest. The rest I agree with. Thornton and Marleau have NMCs and arent going anywhere, nor shoul they be. Im relieved (although unsurprised given the $ value of ELCs and the ridiculous price we got on his 2 year extension) that Couture is a non-starter. Boyle and Niemi are irreplaceable at this point in the year, and Burns shouldnt be moved.
I also think its incredibly unlikely that Wilson even entertains the possibility of moving Vlassic. His advanced numbers are amazing and he makes very little money. Plus the dropoff between him and (insert White, Vandemeer, Braun, Demers) is huge.
Which leaves Pavelski and Clowe. As has been mentioned on here numerous times this year Pavelskis advanced stats are incredible and his $value is way higher than Nash’s. I dont think Id even trade him 1 for 1. I get the impression that not all GMs do adequate research and incorporate anything beyond counting stats when evaluating trades, so I dont think Columbus would do Nash for Pavelski at 1 for 1 either (and thats not even considering the external pressures Howson is under. I really doubt he can sell an advanced statistics and output/$ argument to the fanbase when explaining why he just traded away their franchise player).
So, Clowe. Id be happy about that. 1st round draft picks (especially crappy ones, like the Sharks will be) seem to have an inflated value around the league so they can have 3 or so of those too if they want. And Mitchell, Mcginn (which makes me sad), and either Braun or Demers. Or work in Stalock somehow. Dont think it happens though.
Im still holding out for Carter for picks + Braun/Demers. Contract length and attitude aside, its a big immediate upgrade and if it turns out to be a total disaster I dont think were going to have a problem offloading him somewhere, albeit likely for little to no return.
Sorry, Ive never posted here before and I couldnt figure out how to edit my post to fix the typo. I also wanted to add that re: Carter attitude, if the rumor about a vet(s) wanting to add Avery is true, I think Carter is a cakewalk.
You can't edit on SB Nation, fyi.
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by Justin_Freebords on Feb 22, 2012 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Nash is the same age as Pavs
And where they are in terms of talent isnt even close. Nash is on a level where few players reach.
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:27 PM PST reply actions
Yes, Pavelski’s stats – 22 + 24 = 46 pts
Rick Nash = 20 + 24 = 44 points
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Too bad nobody told Dany Heatley
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by idunno723 on Feb 22, 2012 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
(To clarify, I liked Heatley as a Sharks. Just pointing out the “Wow! 50 goal scorer + Thornton = domination” sentiments never panned out)
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by idunno723 on Feb 22, 2012 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
However pairing up a goal scorer with Jumbo never hurts
Patty’s goal total never really took off until the Sharks acquired Joe. I think its fair to think that Nash could hit 40 goals with Joe
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Also a function of Patty playing 2nd line center BEHIND Joe
And getting lesser competition. Patty is a great player (loathe though I am to admit it), but a good deal of his current success (not all) can be tied to Joe.
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It hurts when you lose Joe Pavelski.
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This team is already center heavy and could take losing Pavs
Marleau-Thornton-Nash
Havlat-Couture-Clowe
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:45 PM PST up reply actions
Not to come off harshly
but did you read the article?
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I did there is no way they take the Clowe contract on
This is my opinion
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
The part about Pavelski I mean.
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
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I'm confused which part are you referring to I reread it and still dont know what you are referring to
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
The block quote from SnarkSD's article
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
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Yes that is a fair point but our PK is really terrible anyway
Does going from 27th to 29th really make a difference in the playoffs? Maybe but I dont think so I would rather have a guy with Nash’s scoring potential over Pavs
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Because Pavs hasn’t been scoring in the playoffs right?
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
He starts hot every year but then is invisible
It is tough to say how Nash will do because of his limited playoff time but in his international career he has 53 points in 54 games
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Can we assume those numbers are all from his play with team Canada?
by meetyourmako on Feb 22, 2012 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
But the quality of players he would be playing with in SJ is pretty much at Team Canada level
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
If that was the case...
(which it is not)
WHY WOULD SAN JOSE TRADE FOR SOMEBODY IF THEY WERE ALREADY AT A TEAM CANADA LEVEL?
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by idunno723 on Feb 22, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
I was just about to respond..
but I think you put it perfectly
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Thornton and Marleau are both Team Canada quality
And they would trade for him because what we have now just doesnt work. We’ve had this core for a few years and always come up short in the end. Why not change it up .I’m tired of getting knocked out in the conference finals
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
LOL
Don’t we sound so spoiled. We’re all tired of getting knocked out in the conference finals. First-rate hockey team problems I guess.But seriously, if we think back to why we lost in the WCF, it wasn’t because of scoring but b/c of defense. Defense wins championships, as has been proven time and again, so getting rid of a strong penalty killer won’t help
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess I'm just for shaking things up and players like this dont become available every day
I wonder if people had this discussion when Jumbo was added lol
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
Team Canada doesn’t have to beat the Canucks or the Red Wings in seven game series. They play against teams like Switzerland and Norway in single game matches. They are not comparable.
by meetyourmako on Feb 22, 2012 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
In the Olympics
He’s 2-4-6 in 15 games. I’m less impressed by the World Championships because 1/2 or more of the NHL doesn’t take part in it yearly.
You’re then stuck going back to the 2005 WC’s, the only year where the NHL players were all available due to lockout. So we’re extrapolating that he’ll be excellent based on 9 games played with Thornton 7 years ago.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
On a side note.
That tourney was so long ago, Wade Redden was named best defensemen.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
International play doesn't really mean much.
He plays for an absolutely stacked team Canada against much weaker teams.
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by idunno723 on Feb 22, 2012 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There are quite a few other good countries that play hockey
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
But none of them have the superstar depth that Canada has. Sure, the top end talent may be equivalent, but a lot of those top end players for every country are still in the Stanley Cup playoffs when the World Championship rolls around. Canada has so many high level players, their international team is stacked no matter which teams are in the playoffs.
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by mymclife on Feb 22, 2012 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Thing is, the PK ranking is weighed down by those horrible, no-good, very bad months in which the penalty kill couldn’t stop a mite team from scoring. They’ve been a lot better recently, and Pavelski is a big part of that.
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So what you're saying is
You want potential over proven commodities?
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...wha?
Are you high? Our PK is better than its been all year… And so is the PP (something like a .33)…
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He of 2 50 goal seasons, hit 39 goals playing w/ Thornton.
There is absolutely no guarantee that Nash puts up those numbers. There is only one puck to go around and many offensive weapons on the Sharks…it’s a lot like Burns’ and why his numbers have dropped this year as well (and I said they would before the season started).
Plus,
Quisp (JftC) put together a compilation of all 50 goal scorers (not that Nash is one) and the result was that a goal scorer peaks around the age of 27-28. Of course there are exceptions, but that was the general trend
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Sigh. Yes. Indeed. And again, how many times did Joe Pavelski hit 39 goals? Or even 30 goals? Never.
What’s your point. This team isn’t hurting for goals.
I’d rather hang onto one of the better 2 way players in the NHL who can put up 30 goals than trade him for a player who is nowhere near Pavelski’s 2 way play and MAY put up 40 goals.
Take away the complete game Pavs plays entirely and the question is – is that additional 10 goals worth another $3.8mil?
I agree with this completely. The sharks are not STARVING for goals. Pavelski’s all around game is what gives him so much value. Look at the damage he did last year playing on the THIRD line
by Justin_Freebords on Feb 22, 2012 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is a pretty good point. I don’t think $3.8 mil is worth that 10 extra goals. Think of how much you pay for a 10 goal winger, it certainly isn’t that much. Plus Pavs is strong on both sides of the ice. We’re getting so much more value from him than we would from Nash.
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
huh? You can’t relate the cost of a 10 goal winger to the premium paid for a 40 goal winger over a 25 goal winger. Doesn’t make any sense.
I don’t think the Heatley thing is a good comparison either. Heatley was clearly slowing down, had fitness problems, and/or personal demons. Look at his performance in Minni – not exactly setting the world on fire. Sure, that could be the case with Nash, but there isn’t any evidence of that. Lightning striking twice if that was the case.
How many times has Rick Nash been a defensive player worth anything?
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Kinda did. His first pre-injury year with San Jose he was pretty elite.
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by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I dont think he was saying that.
But you cannot honestly think that in terms of talent and potential that Pavelski and Nash are equal
by footballfan2577 on Feb 22, 2012 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
No way they are equal
They have completely differing skillsets.
Nash is a power forward. Pavelski is a two way center.
Call me crazy, but I’ll always take the two way center in that argument.
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Changing signatures is for suckers.
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Also
Pavs is playing well enough this year to be a contender for the Selke. Leading the NHL in faceoffs, in the top ten for takeaways and blocked shots among forwards, seeing the tough defensive assignments he does and coming out as +16, second behind only Vlasic himself. Oh, and there’s all those more complicated stats like Corsi and Fenwick and Flugenweb/Assmode that are better than +/-.
Pavs isn’t just a two way center, he’s one hell of a two way center.
Nash, career .812 pts per game, 7.8M contract, .104 pts per game per million
Pavelski, .712 pts per game, 4M contract, .178 pts per game per million
Pavs is almost twice as efficient as Nash. Of course you can make the case that Nash plays for a poor team, but he has a lot of ground to cover to even equal Pavelski’s efficiency
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
How many 40 goal seasons has Pavelski had again? None? And no 30 goal seasons either? Versus 2 40+ and 4 30+ for Nash? On the frigging BLUE JACKETS?!
That's not the point
This is in terms of how efficient each player is with regards to their contract..and since each and every team is constrained by the salary cap, you have to find efficiency with your dollars
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Amen, sister.
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but, he is the only player the Jackets have
Plus I bet Nash plays about 5+ more minutes a game more than Pavelski.
Go Big or Go Home
But think of how expensive he is!
$7.8 million is a lot of money tied up, especially considering how much is already tied up in Marleau and Thornton. I understand we want to win now, but what if we don’t this year? At least Pavelski gives us a longer window to win
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Sharks only have 2-3 years left with this core being competitive. It’ll be a different team three years from now. The window is closing very quickly.
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If this window closes
It’s because we lose Thornton, Marleau and Boyle to age.
The next window opens up because of Couture, Pavelski and Vlasic.
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I'm going to point out something I said the other day:
when good players play for bad teams one of two arguments invariably gets made:
Either 1) He plays for a bad team, if he played for a good team his numbers would be higher. OR 2) He’s the best player on a bad team, so his stats are inflated because he’s the one doing all the work. On a good team with fellow stars he’d put up less points because he wouldn’t be doing all the work.
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Honestly...
I wouldn’t trade Pavelski for Nash STRAIGHT UP! He’s way too valuable. His career PPG is only .1 below Nash’s…and Pavelski brings with him a much, much, much better defensive and all around game. Pavs has the edge in CORSI, +/- (a crude stat, for sure, but its a big, big difference in this case), …oh, and he’s been pretty clutch in the playoffs. Pavelski is also one of the most integral cogs in our rotation. He’s relied upon for everything! And we get all this for 3.8 million a year less (and most likely still for a million or two less a year once we have to re-sign him in a few years). Just…no. This is a non-starter in my book.
If you can build me a package around Clowe and Niemi, then I’m all for it. Clowe + Niemi + Demers + Petrecki + 1st Rounder. I do that in a heartbeat. Plug Nash in with the Joes, plug Greiss in at G (with Niitty backing up), Braun is up full time…and I think that trade makes our team much better. Probably not appealing to Columbus, though…with Clowe not being a center and Niemi being an awful, untradable contract. But there’s at least some pieces to build around there for Columbus.
But, as I said, I suspect that wouldn’t fly with Howson…at which point I pass. Nash and his giant contract are not worth the holes on the roster it would open up.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 22, 2012 2:27 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Well, to take on a contract like Nash’s, we’d need to clear out future cap constraints. And with our much cheaper kids ready for real NHL time, there is reason to include him outside of my obvious dislike of him as a player.
Of course, the day Niemi gets traded away is the day ZI throws a giant parade.
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by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 22, 2012 3:05 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
Enough of this Nash Talk
Doug will not trade Pavelski or Clowe for Nash. I would love to see Nash in Teal, but it just isn’t going to happen. The Sharks have bigger issues to figure out, and they need to figure them out fast. Doug needs to focus on his goal of putting together a cup winning team. The only move or moves I see Doug doing is making another deal for a defensive forward, and possibly Selanne for that sniper RW the Sharks need.
*but if Doug were to some how get Nash for only prospects and draft picks then I vote for him for President or hell atleast Mayor of San Jose
Go Big or Go Home
I think I echo everyone else here with a
HELL NO! And it’s not because I absolutely adore Pavs (I mean I do, but that’s not the point) but because of the value we’re getting at his cap hit. He’s a solid two-way player at almost $4 million less. Nash is clutch when it counts..but so is Pavelski. I don’t see an upside in trading him. I would be ok with Clowe + prospects/picks but I don’t think that’s what Columbus needs/ is stupid enough to take that deal. So to summarize, NO NASH please!
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Nash is clutch when it counts..
I keep saying that series against the Red Wings didn’t count!
by meetyourmako on Feb 22, 2012 3:05 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I just meant that as a argument people would make to get Nash. He hasn’t really had any playoff experience at all so we’re really just going by international stats. Personally I have no idea if he’s clutch or not…I just don’t think its a legit argument against Pavs
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by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 3:07 PM PST up reply actions
For those who are getting as stressed about this rumor as I am, this has been a nice stress reliever – http://foodonmydog.tumblr.com/
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To paraphrase one of the great icons of film
With the Sharks’ position in the Western Conference, you’re going to have a lot of urges. You’re going to want to take off your clothes, and trade for Rick Nash. But if you do trade for Rick Nash, you will get chlamydia, and die.
Don’t trade for Rick Nash, because you will get pregnant and die. Don’t trade for Nash for Pavelski, don’t trade for Nash for Vlasic, just don’t do it, okay, promise? Okay, now everybody take some rubbers.
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Proud Member of the "I Will Cry If Joe Pavelski Is Traded" Club
by mymclife on Feb 22, 2012 2:59 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
By the way,
defining movie of my childhood…
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
So for the majority of us who don't want Nash...
Who do you want? Or do you think the return of Havlat is enough?
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
Who do you want?
Giroux, Claude
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Hahahah
Who do you realistically want?
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, well in that case...
umm, well, nobody realistically comes to mind :/
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
I dont think scoring the main issue here.
I’d like to see grit and Defense injected into this locker room! At this point, I dont know which player if any would give us a better chance at winning the cup considering who’s out there in available trades.
Rick Astley.
Rick James.
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
by Matthew_Taylor on Feb 22, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m sure Rick Astley has a “never gonna give you up” clause in his contract.
The real terror of beholding Sharks feeding is that that may be all there is to life.
Are you a Shark, or a sheep? Sharks are winners and they don't look back, cuz they don't have necks. Necks are for sheep.
"If you're not hurt right now, if you're not banged, bruised, you're not sore, you're not tired, I guess the question would be: Why?" - Todd McLellan
by CloweMyWord! on Feb 22, 2012 5:40 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
That's a rec.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
In honor of today:
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
"The only crying allowed in hockey is when you lose a playoff series, retire or JR is speaking publicly." - Jamie Baker
"You are down with the homies, my friend." - Randy Hahn
Kent Huskins cares.
"Don't fart on my chair mutha fuckah!" - Randy Hahn
"Pavs with great feed but what a release by Wingels Peanut Butter Baby!"" - Jamie Baker
by PNK on Feb 22, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Dont have much faith in Havlat
I’d like to see Doug trade for Moen, and Selanne. I just think this would be a good balance for the Sharks.
Go Big or Go Home
Haha we’ve had both before and they didn’t pan out as hoped. I don’t think the Sharks are gonna go there again.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 5:19 PM PST up reply actions
Nostra-frickin'-damus here!
Clearly this is all smoke and mirrors – what’s going to happen is a five-team trade. Pavelski goes to Washington, who’ll flip Ovechkin to Detroit, who’ll flip Datsyuk to Edmonton, who will send Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to Columbus, so we can get Rick Nash.
BOOK IT. e5
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
I’d rather have any of those other players over Nash. Except for Ovechkin. He sucks.
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
Nostra-frickin'-damus here!
Clearly this is all smoke and mirrors – what’s going to happen is a five-team trade. Pavelski goes to Washington, who’ll flip Ovechkin to Detroit, who’ll flip Datsyuk to Edmonton, who will send Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to Columbus, so we can get Rick Nash.
BOOK IT. e5
Fear The Fin = Man goes into cage... Cage goes into salsa... Shark's in the salsa... Our shark.
But I want Datsyuk.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Aren't we all forgetting
that DW just wants more attention on this whole Nash thing so he can pull the trigger on an under-the-radar type deal that no one saw coming!?
…who really won’t do anything for us in the playoffs and proceed to sign with another team July 1 and win a cup with them. No, that couldn’t happen.
I would rather be happy than right any day.
by SouthBayernMunchen on Feb 22, 2012 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
I'd hate to see Pavs traded away
Not just because he’s perhaps my favorite Shark, but because I don’t think scoring is our biggest issue right now. Our D has been sloppy and Niemi has been struggling. We’re just giving up way too many goals.
are NHL players allowed to reconstruct their contracts like in other leagues?
by a408life on Feb 22, 2012 3:39 PM PST via Android app reply actions
Nope
Fear the Fin - NEEDS MORE DOVES
Proud Member of the "I Will Cry If Joe Pavelski Is Traded" Club
Everyone expects Pavs to be traded away.
I’m pretty sure DW will just shock everybody, and end up trading Torrey Mitchell for CBJ’s first round pick in 2012…
"Logan Couture is a dirty, filthy man. Tell all your friends" - Mr. Plank
Welcome to the NHL, Atlanta Thrashers of Winnipeg.
by Bockerz on Feb 22, 2012 3:47 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Then we'd have to watch him not draft Nail
because he hates Russians.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
A very important factor in all of this
Is Nash willing to go to LA? Because if he is, I have no doubt that LA can put together a better package for him then we are willing to. I know LA was not on his short list, but if that changes then we are out of the picture. If Nash is pretty adamant that the only California team he wants to play for is the Sharks, I think DW can swing it with Clowe.
Then maybe you see Carter go to LA in a reactionary move to put Richards and Carter back together.
I'm all for the Richards/Carter reunification in LA
given the party animal rumors I heard about the pair in Philly.
Sutter would lose his **** dealing with those two.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Really? I don’t want that team to land Carter. That could become a deadly duo once again, and It’s not worth playing with fire.
Let their hands be strung for the next 100 years
If it ends up consting them Kopitar down the line, totally worth it
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
It entirely depends on what LA wants to give up. Berneir is a total unknow and I’d imagine with how things have gone w/ Mason they might not want to take that risk so people thinkng he’d be a centerpiece in a deal for Nash are probably a bit off.
They have quite a few good young players but none they’d part with that are on Pavelski’s level.
A package of Bernier, Loktionov, Voynov + 1st might get it done…but again, those are all ‘unknowns’ for the most part. LA isn’t going to part with Brown, Kopi, Doughty, etc. And Jack Johnson sucks…it depends entirely on what CBJ wants.
I don't think Nash helps this team with what its current problems are.
I honestly don’t think any trade, considering what is available, is going to help the Sharks with their current problems. I think their biggest problem right now is all the injuries, and the only thing that’ll fix that is time, not trades. Better goal tending would help, but so would the goalies getting more support from their defense, which has been injury depleted the past few games.
Getting back Havlat will help. Getting back D. Murray will help. I don’t think trading will.
by Old Kentucky Shark on Feb 22, 2012 4:46 PM PST reply actions
Not only the injuries but
the level of play has to improve. I just don’t think the Sharks are playing up to the level of talent they possess. Good teams find ways to navigate around injuries and win regardless. The Sharks are a good team and its difficult to make excuses for them when they still have much of their core intact and healthy.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
How....hammy.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
My $0.02
Yes, just like everyone has said, Columbus is probably going to ask for Pavelski. Is that even value? Depending on the rest of the package, yes. Should we do it? No.
Is Clowe in a package worth Nash? No, not enough. If the issue is forced, is it worth it? Of course!
Moral of the story = In the NHl, you have to give to get. We have heard this over and over again…it’s true! You don’t get Rick Nash caliber players for peanuts…you have to give either top picks and prospects or good roster players. If that’s a surprise for some of you, well…all I can say is, learn a little bit about how trading works in the NHL before making up proposals or speculating.
The only way we get Nash for a lower-level package like Clowe is if he forces the issue like Heater did so we got him for, at the time, a steal.
MOST likely that won’t happen, so we are back to the give to get scenario…
DW and management has to decide one thing and one thing only – is Nash worth it?
That is all folks – I don’t there is anything else to discuss…
As Plank always says, God save us all. Go Sharks. :)
Go Sharks!
The good news...
… I don’t think we will have to wait long to find out. I doubt this goes to the deadline. Interesting tweet from James Duthie just now… “Leafs goalie shopping, Nash’s likely destination, and more trade talk on a mutant hybrid Quiz/Insider Trading segment in our 1st inter.”
In the spirit of bold predictions
Nash to LA for Kopitar and Bernier, plus some draft picks are involved.
GO SHARKS!
They're not getting this kind of coverage at "Hockey Night In Canada" folks! - Randy Hahn
Changing signatures is for suckers.
What Jay Leach is to the San Jose Shark's Defense, I am to Fear The Fin's Mod Squad.
Ok... you are on... :-)
Nash to SJ for Pavs, Mitchell, and a prospect or pick.
Handzus to Minnesota for a 3rd and Jed Ortmeyer.
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
LA
They won’t trade Kopitar – but there’s a pretty good chance that Lombardi, since his job seems to be on the line, will make a panic trade pretty soon.
Be interesting to see what he ends up doing.
This is my pick, too.
The whole thing confuses me anyway. Howson should be on his way out of Columbus. I wouldn’t let him trade my biggest chip just before replacing him.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Well except Richards was a pending FA while Nash still has a lot of time left on his contract. Either way I think what you were getting at is that he probably won’t be traded now. And if anything it’ll be during the off season.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
Ironically, just came across this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NF3JG9Jo7s&feature=youtube_gdata_player
No trading Pavs thank you very much. Go Sharks!
Go Sharks!
PAVELSKI ISNT GOING ANYWHERE
People are getting ridiculous with their Nash trade scenarios. DW wouldn’t trade Pavelski for Nash, let alone trade some of packages people have been saying we’d “need” to trade – ‘Pavelski + Braun + Stalock + a 1st’…that’s ridiculous.
Nash obviously wants to play for San Jose, and DW definitely wants Nash to play here so i really wouldn’t be surprised if something gets worked out – a deal that doesn’t include Pavelski or Couture.
In other breaking news, scientists discover that sky is blue.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I have some insider information on what the deal will be.
A first, a goalie prospect, and DW does all Columbus’s draft picks for them, because they can’t seem to do it well by themselves.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
lol maybe that’s what they meant when they said that they’re getting “creative” in negotiations. Is it possible DW would share his secret to staying so perfectly tan??
"Leave Ohio"
How secret really is that?
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
Nash to SJ for Havlat & one of DW's phones.
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
Also, SJ will throw in a song written by Fear the Fin.
SCOTT HOWSON IS TAKING HIS PHONE CALLS
SCOTT HOWSON IS BIDING HIS TIME
Flugenweb. Spacecode. Twitzone. Assmode.
"The last time I made a video in a hotel room…..very different than this." – Drew Remenda
2010-2011 FTF 2 Fantasy Hockey CHAMPION
by jwizzle241 on Feb 22, 2012 6:26 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
LONG NIGHTS.
IMPOSSIBLE ODDS.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Is that an old school RAZR?
Or just the neck/shoulder rest to a regular wired phone?
-No Soup For You!
by Shark Fin Soup Nazis on Feb 22, 2012 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
I'm going to sound like a broken record
Nash = overrated. I’d much rather make a play for David Jones or Chris Stewart.
Overrated, but not bad.
CERTAINLY not worth his contract. Once upon a time, yes, but he’s dropped way off since those days.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
I'm going to make an obvious point that looks like a rant but isn't
Why are we looking for a trade to fix what’s wrong with our team? Again? It makes me sad, and all the stats in the world can’t make me not sad at the state of this team, really.
Picklesnakebit since 2011.
@shampeon
The tarde happening also depends on
Who Nash is willing to accept a trade to. He has a full ntc so it could end up like the neatly deal were edmonton was offering way more the San Jose but heatly didn’t want to play there. I think if anything like that happens then it would’ve in the off season
Nash Predictions on TSN
Darren Dreger thinks he ends up in San Jose, Pierre Lebrun thinks he goes to New York, and Bob McKenzie thinks he stays in Columbus (at least until this offseason.
"The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
My gut is telling me to ignore my gut, but I’m still with you— I think he stays in Columbus until this offseason as well.
That being said, I’m hanging on by a thread.
"The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel." - Horace Walpole
Fear The Fin: Where Selling Your Soul Is The Likely Solution
Well, my reasoning for thinking Nash stays in Columbus ‘til the offseason is because I don’t think the GM’s that are currently “in” on him will be willing to give up what Howson wants and (although I no reason at all to believe this next part) I don’t think Howson is dumb enough to settle for anything less than what he feels he should get in return.
*Fingers crossed!
I'm hanging out on this thread.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Nope!
But being hideously uncool is the standard on FTF.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 6:57 PM PST up reply actions
Little known fact, FTF is actually run off a server in Awkland, NZ.
And you seriously can’t get anymore awkward than New Zealand.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:03 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Careful
Auckland is my hometown..don’t mess with it lol
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Do you know
that awkward moment when you think that Auckland and Awkland are the same place? You do now. :p
New Zealanders tell me Auckland has some of the country's most attractive sheep.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:24 PM PST up reply actions
Well...
If it’s sheep that interest you, as strange as that may be, I’m sure I could probably hook you up with a few for a good night :P
You know, for wool purposes…
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Australians have a lot of "New Zealanders fucking/marrying sheep" jokes.
That’s where this comes from. Mate.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
Lol, I know…I figured I might as well turn this around on you
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
Oh. Well. Unsuccessful. I'm Canadian.
No time for beastiality. Must tend to the poutine crop.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:35 PM PST up reply actions
That's my jersey in that .gif!
I’m a little weirded out by it now…
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
Little known fact, bezzerkker watches you sleep.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
So?
Oh, and a request. Stop sleeping naked. It makes me think that I should be naked, too, and I’m not sure if I’m ready to take our relationship to that level of commitment.
I found it on the internets.
I googled “Patrick Marleau Awkward” and this .gif was one of the results. I’m not stalking you.
…yet.
Good.
I already have too many stalkers.
Leslie Knope: "...but it has a lot of heart."
April Ludgate: "That's what people always say when something sucks."
Fear The Fin's Fifth-String Moderator and Recap Specialist !!
Stalkers?
Or fans?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:30 PM PST up reply actions
My gut is telling me no
but my gut is also very hungry…
Proud member of the "Bring Back Semenov" Club
"The only crying allowed in hockey is when you lose a playoff series, retire or JR is speaking publicly." - Jamie Baker
"You are down with the homies, my friend." - Randy Hahn
Kent Huskins cares.
"Don't fart on my chair mutha fuckah!" - Randy Hahn
"Pavs with great feed but what a release by Wingels Peanut Butter Baby!"" - Jamie Baker
Feed me!
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not sure how much this was mentioned since I wasnt in the game thread yesterday,
but how about Nash going after Boyle? I mean, its pretty funny to see them as teammates when they chirp at each other anytime they are on the ice together. He also got a boarding call when he hit Patty.
But in regards to the trade, I say wait till the offseason. I’d like a guy like Hemsky at the deadline and if we still dont make progress in the playoffs, go after him in june. DW doesnt like big deals like these during the deadline anyway. Plus, the price may go down since they have no pressure to trade him.
Flem: "Tim are you enjoying the party?"
Timmy: "That would be a fair assumption."
I think we get this done for clowe, braun/demers, stalock, and a pick
because wilson is magic and i beleive
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Come check out the McC Book Club Start Date 1/21
Proud parent of Seth Rosin: Couldn't throw an intentional walk if he wanted to
by operation carrot on Feb 22, 2012 7:23 PM PST reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqRwFyoGgQ
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
NOT STALOCK.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Randy Hahn - "The Man With The Big Butt - Patrick Marleau - we like him and we cannot lie..."
Proud fan of the Atlanta Thrashers (1999-2011)
Stalock?
Are you freaking kidding? He’s the franchise in 2 years, maybe next year. If anyone gets traded, it’s Greiss.
And what’s the advice (Murray’s grandfather, Lars [Lasse] Bjorn) gives him?
"Hit more people."
GO SHARKS.
Anyone read Pollak today?
I doubt DW does anything—esp Nash.
"In the big picture," Wilson said, "one or two games is not going to impact any decisions we make."
Then he continued.
"We started building this team in June. You can get tricked by playing really well as well as you can by playing a poor game. The emotions — it’s OK to have emotions and be passionate and hate losing, which we do. But then you’ve got to make your decisions based on common sense, research and work — and not be flavored by that."
No real hint there as to how things will play out, of course, but I think there’s a little more insight into how Wilson looks at the situation.
And what’s the advice (Murray’s grandfather, Lars [Lasse] Bjorn) gives him?
"Hit more people."
GO SHARKS.
He’d make a great politician!
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 7:45 PM PST up reply actions
You just gotta read reeeeeally far into the stuff he says.
I think he just said there that he’s confident in our defense corps despite the past few games so he won’t be looking for a defenseman at the deadline. He also talked about how he likes Ryane Clowe and the passion he brings and that he won’t be trading him for Rick Nash. lol
You'd rather he tell the whole league our plans?
I love how tight a lid he keeps on things even if it keeps me in the dark.
Trading for big names hasn't worked
in getting a cup to s.j. DW just downgraded a 7.5 mil contract. So to me this giving stuff away for one big player needs to stop. At least until the Marleau, Thorton transition gets under way. I think it’s clear that this team doesn’t have a cup more because of a mental edge in team effort then any one player. Instead of going for Nash DW should just go for some more solid depth. Moore could be seen as a Hadzus back up/Mitchell replacement. Hopefully he gets another 3rd line winger that can back up Havlat and move both zus and mitch down. I won’t mind if Ferriero, goalie prospect and a good pick or less go for a good trade but nothing more. Braun and Demers need to stay until Petrecki or Irwin prove themselves. Defense should be the priority right now. Getting a better top 4 like signing B. Stuart in July and moving D. Murray down to the 3rd pairing would do the team more good then signing Nash. In the end hoping to get R. Suter in July for nothing is better then pushing for Nash.
"Not to sound like a complete homer but, that was a bad call." -Drew Remenda
"You tee em up and I'll knock them out." -Randy Hahn
by raphelo on Feb 22, 2012 7:46 PM PST via mobile reply actions
trading for big names never works?
Thorton?
Sometimes you just have to look death in the face and say whatever man
Come check out the McC Book Club Start Date 1/21
Proud parent of Seth Rosin: Couldn't throw an intentional walk if he wanted to
by operation carrot on Feb 22, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions
Joe wasn't a big name.
It’s just three letters.
by Briceratops on Feb 22, 2012 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I don't know why
but I almost fell out of my chair reading this.
-No Soup For You!
by Shark Fin Soup Nazis on Feb 22, 2012 7:54 PM PST up reply actions
Trading for small depth names hasn’t worked in getting a cup to SJ either, and neither has staying pat! SO NOW WHAT DO WE DO AHHHH
Milan, you're a stat expert.
Why were the Oilers doing so well earlier in the season? And why are they shit now?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
Goaltending…the Bulin Wall was absolutely stellar for a while, then he remembered he was old and had spent time in jail. But really, it was goaltending.
Ahh.
They caught Minnesota disease. Still, it’s sad… Edmonton has SO MANY talented players (what is it, like 5 with a .75 PPG or higher?) but nothing to show for it… Yet.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn't Burns the last missing piece?
And how many people were worried if DW might of given up too much for that piece? And what happened to all the “S.J now has a pretty bare prosect pool” talk that was going on at the start of the year? Thorton did make the team better but last I checked he still hasn’t brought a stanley cup to town. So after everything DW did to keep the core in tact, downgrade heatley’s contract and get the last missing piece Burns, now everyone wants to give up even more for a really good overpaid player in Nash. That’s definitely moving the team in the right direction! Just keep giving things away to get that last missing piece. The fanbase is getting more and more unreasonable in their want for a stanley cup. This trade is stupid for the simple fact that DW would have to give up 2 top 6 players in the end to stay under the cap with Nash’s contract next year. Leaving only 5 top 6 players next year with about a million dollars in cap space giving up Pav/Clowe or a litte over 2 mil in Pav/Havlat to fill in the #6 spot.
"Not to sound like a complete homer but, that was a bad call." -Drew Remenda
"You tee em up and I'll knock them out." -Randy Hahn
by raphelo on Feb 22, 2012 10:40 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I was just teasing you on your statement that trading for big names hasn’t gotten us a cup yet. Obviously we haven’t won a cup yet so a statement like that doesn’t mean anything really.
Trading for big names at the deadline has certainly helped other teams go deep into the playoffs. Of course you wouldn’t want to give up another important player like Pavelski to get one though, and there’s now way DW would do that at the deadline. You just gotta try to trade mostly futures for the best upgrade you can get, which DW is trying to do i’m sure.
I got the joke, was refering more to shark fin soup.
If Handzus wasn’t in the way with his NMC and DW could put a package together with Pav, Havlat and zus without giving away Braun or Demers, I might be down for it. But that’s not gonna happen. I just don’t understand (I know a lot of it’s just make believe) throwing Braun and Demers names around. They have so much up side and last playoffs people were left wishing Demers could play. As inexperienced as they are I doubt DW would give up a ton, for a player like Nash and then even more to replace the #6 spot on defense. The offense is fine and I like the defensive fwd mentality the team seems to be going with. The defense is still the problem to me with the obvious tweaks. Replacing D. Murray or moving him down for a true #1 stay at home defenseman is what I think the team needs. Vlasic and Burns make up an awsome pairing. Boyle needs a stay at home partner that’s more on his level to round out the best possible top 4
"Not to sound like a complete homer but, that was a bad call." -Drew Remenda
"You tee em up and I'll knock them out." -Randy Hahn
by raphelo on Feb 23, 2012 11:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Replacing D. Murray or moving him down for a true #1 stay at home defenseman is what I think the team needs.
This is exactly the move I wish the Sharks would make.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 23, 2012 1:33 PM PST up reply actions
Or just make Burns - Vlasic the #1 pairing
Then D. Murray is the #4 stay at home defenseman.
Case closed.
Murray is overextended in a top 4 role, IMO.
But would be an awesome 5-6 anchor.
"If you can accept losing, you can't win." ~Vince Lombardi
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by ZeroIndulgence on Feb 23, 2012 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
I have a feeling Wilson is doing this to all the analysts right now.
Wilson will probably end up trading for another veteran 3rd or 4th liner or something irrelevant like that.
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by sharkzfan on Feb 22, 2012 7:46 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
I'd want Nash with the Sharks
but I don’t see why Columbus would accept a trade with either Pavelski and Clowe in it. The reason why Columbus is willing to trade Nash in the first place is because they want to get multiple picks, and good players at a young age and start this whole new rebuilding process. Well, Nash is 27, Pavelski is 27, and Clowe is 29. So if CBJ gets Clowe or Pavelski, they won’t be getting their desired result of rebuilding and Columbus should realize by trading Nash, they know San Jose would want him for the sole purpose of winning a cup this or next year, so Sharks wouldnt want to trade current core players on the team, so no Couture.
And since SJ has a lot of cap space, then with that, the way this trade could happen would be trading draft picks, top prospects like Nick Petrecki and Justin Braun and more, Antero Niittymaki, and other players, maybe even TMitch.
How I think Lines Should Be:
Marleau – Thornton – Nash
Clowe – Couture – Pavelski
McGinn – Handzus – Havlat
Winchester – Desjardins – Moore
(Mitchell, Ferriero, Wingels, Sheppard, McLaren, and A.Murray as extras)
Murray – Boyle
Vlasic – Burns
Demers – White/Vandermeer
Niemi
Greiss
by MRAgustin57 on Feb 22, 2012 8:19 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
I highly doubt any GM in this league is that dumb. Petrecki, Braun, Nitty, and TMitch + picks are not worth a premier player. Mitchell and Nitty are players most of us want to get rid of (i.e. why would anyone else want them) and Petrecki and Braun haven’t really shown that they’ll develop into premier dmen. Plus none of our picks would be that high since our team is pretty damn good. Wishful thinking..but that trade will NOT happen.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Don't toss out Nitty...
He was clutch when we needed it in LA last 2nd season…
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
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I’m just saying that Nitty wants out and the organization doesn’t seem to want him either
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
"Wants out"?
Based on? He’s has an organization that supports him through several prolonged injuries and gets him AHL ice time to recoup and we’re treating him badly?
I must be missing something.
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 8:36 PM PST up reply actions
Wow. I can't believe I missed that story...
.. Well, given how zoo-ey my job has been for the last 30 days, maybe I can….
That said, given our recent G issues, maybe they’ll reconsider (sic.)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
True. Both Nemo and Greiss have been pretty terrible lately. But goalies go through bad spells (and the D hasn’t been helping either). I think they’ll come out of it and Niitty will ultimately be expendable. Plus it’s not like we can keep 3 goalies on the roster.
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 8:50 PM PST up reply actions
I agree...
… I was being somewhat sarcastic. (grin)
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
Niitty has said that a lot got lost in translation in that Finnish article and that he never said anything about disliking the organization.
He just wants to play in the NHL and while he wold prefer to play here in San Jose, he understand the situation and so he’d like to be traded so he can get some NHL starts.
Niitty was waived and unclaimed
You can toss him out with ease.
If all sports fandom is a form of emotional gambling, football is poker and hockey is Russian roulette.
lol you’d rather take Niittymaki and Mitchell for Nash than Pavelski and Clowe??
God i hope you’re Scott Howson.
by Khaaz on Feb 22, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Hahahah
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
Honestly? I'm not really sure I'm a big fan of this "Two points + player" trade mode we started with Carolina...
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
You mean Tampa?
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
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by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
You had to remind me...
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
DW is great at making something out of nothing
Although he does most of this during the offseason. An often forgotten move that he once made was moving this and this for this 
.
You add the Heater and Jumbo trades and I say he is more than capable of getting a Nash trade to happen, but it is doubtful at this time of year. If anything, I think DW is trying to make other teams bid high and tie up cap space so that he can go buy low somewhere else (maybe the likes of Hemsky for a pick).
IF, and thats a big IF, we get Nash, I see it going as follows:
CBJ Nash, 5th Round Pick in 2012
SJS Griess, Demers, Wingels, and 1st round pick in 2012 and 2013
Even at that, its a steep price to pay for Nash. His totals are unimpressive currently and his salary does not fit our structure for future signings.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 8:26 PM PST reply actions
Dunno why it didn't work...
But I was trying to post a video link of Toskala letting in that 197-foot goal and a photo of Mark Bell. Here is a news article on how we got Couture in the first place:
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 8:28 PM PST up reply actions
Again...
It won’t let me link something. So I give up
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 8:30 PM PST up reply actions
I wanna keep Wingels, and we kinda NEED Demers.
The artist formerly know as *"Sharks_Fan_In_Toronto"*
Official theme song of the San Jose Sharks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn9_EQ2ykyo
by Evil Stanchion on Feb 22, 2012 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
I agree to both but...
We have to add some prospect that can blossom for them, and we have to give up a defenseman with potential. Sadly, this isn’t NHL 2005 where you keep flinging dung on the wal until something sticks that the other team accepts. Nash is a big player and there has to be something that is a attractive enough for the other side to accept.
Even with all the mojo in the world, I cannot see DW getting by for much less than this.
Demers is more attractive than Braun to other teams and I like Braun better. Demers is more proven and Wingels is an attractive prospect. The Sharks are great at drafting in late rounds and can make a late round pick thrown in to be just as good as some guys historically drafted by other teams late in the first.
HOWEVER, with all this said. I still don’t think I am all in for pushing a trade like this through to get Nash. It is a lot to gamble on a guy who has played less playoff games than I can count on one hand.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:30 PM PST up reply actions
Chicago 2.0
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
ya
the more I look at the cap, the more I realize someone has to go regardless of swindling. Perhaps offseason moves are made prior to free agency after the state of the franchise is further assessed.
Regardless, $7.8 MM looks uglier and uglier by the hour
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
Yep, it’d be likely that Clowe and/or Doug Murray would be shopped in the off season if that kind of deal went by, something I wouldn’t really be opposed to if we ended up getting Nash for that, though obviously no one wants to lose quality players in the off season for picks simply because of cap space problems.
Swap Niemi for Griess, add TM17, and I think the cap space might be solved as well.
"It was good to get banged and give a few bangs." - Jonathan Cheechoo
Lovely, but never going to happen
Nemo can win in the playoffs. He is a late season guy and I have confidence he will bode well this post season. My balls are simply not of planetary size to be willing to put all my eggs in the Jesus Griess basket.
As far as Mitchell goes, are you suggesting just throwing him in? I dont agree with this unless Columbus desperately wants him. And any deal that has Sir Fallsdownalot as the deal breaker on acquiring Nash would make plenty of people go:
Mitchell does play with a lot of speed and tenacity and is good on the backcheck. He is a solid role player. He is a RFA come this offseason, and if cap space is an issue, I would rather keep him while we are cap compliant now and dispose of him come the offseason. No need to vanquish depth before a run at the Cup.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:36 PM PST up reply actions
I swear I am going to figure out this picture thing
(Picture that was supposed to go after second paragraph)
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Mitchell isn’t contributing what his salary dictates he should. He’s a speedy player and that in of itself translates into backchecking ability, but offensively he’s really regressed in his decision making. This alone is why people are talking about trading Mitchell, not that he isn’t a decent 3rd/4th liner, but he could be so much more and isn’t, and so is a viable trade chip. I have no problems keeping Mitchell next year for the 4th as long as his salary went down to the normal 4th’s 6-800k.
I completely agree. But if he isn’t the “must have” part of the deal and is more of a dump off than anything, I would rather keep him for now and just not sign him on in the offseason. I think there are better players in our farm system than him and he is not worth his asking price.
Since all of this is short term speculation…Mitchell is not a salary cap breaker since he goes UFA this summer. A depth player in the playoffs is better than no player.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 23, 2012 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
MOAR NASHTERBATION
I like my goals like I like my booze..... Top shelf.
by GhostOfLinkGaetz on Feb 22, 2012 9:08 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
LMAO!!!
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
One of the problems with this whole THIS YEAR mentality is DW is NEVER going to think in those terms. If that was the case, then Heatley would never have been exchanged with Havlat. That was a knowing downgrade that DW had to do in order to have the future cap space to get new contracts for Couture and Burns.
If that this year mentality was present, we’d still have Heatley. Nuff said.
...wha?
"Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it."
@TheFourthPeriod How intense with the #Bruins #Habs PO series be? || @Noctro Like K-Y Jelly lit on fire. || @TheFourthPeriod Wow. Best. Answer. Ever.
"I still say McLellan needs to roll Pavelski, Marleau, and Stetoguchi together. No one would go NEAR that line."
My Twitter
Disagree
That move was made to free up salary cap space for better player and contract moves. Havlat is a different type of player than Heatley. It has not panned out yet, but Havlat was acquired to be a postseason guy.
For example:
Does anyone care who wins the President’s Trophy? NO! Because the Cup is the only trophy that matters.
Heatley>Havlat for regular season
Heatley<Casper (the friendly ghost, not Kaspar the former prospect)
The guy just does not show up come playoff time. So if anything, moving Heater was a move for now.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
Yes
We care. Because home ice advantage and a relatively easy first round opponent are not insignificant things. We care a hell of a lot more about other
Also, remember that Heatley was known as a playoff guy before he came here. No, I don’t think San Jose is where playoff acumen goes to die (See Pavelski, The Big – also, Heater was injured during both his playoffs here). I think that the whole thing is overblown – for most players, the playoffs are such a small sample size out of their career that it doesn’t take much luck for someone to perform better during that period. It isn’t terribly predictive, especially on a new team with a new system.
Exactly. Before the Sharks, Heatley was a point per game playoff player. It has only been the last 2 years with the Sharks that his playoff numbers dipped because of his injuries. Overall numbers, Heatley and Havlat come out near the same, and Heatley was injured for his last 2 playoff runs, one with a broken hand of all things. Heatley: 66 GP, 15 G, 42 A, 57 P. Havlat: 67 GP, 19 G 30 A, 49 P.
DW had to free up cap space, and he did that with Heatley because while Heatley is still a good player his contract doesn’t justify his production, not because he “isn’t a playoff player”. It was likely determined that they didn’t feel he was going to rebound and suddenly become a 45 goal scorer again, and so because they needed the cap space he had to take the axe.
If Heatley and Havlat had the exact same contract, Heatley would still be a Shark 99% guarantee.
Certainly more was expected from Heatley during the postseason, and certainly people were disappointed in his run regardless of injuries slowing him down. But to claim that Heatley was dumped because of those numbers and wouldn’t have been retained if the cap would have allowed it is just laughable.
by VVhirlwind on Feb 23, 2012 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
well ‘yotes won’t sell…(they traded for vermette)…so no ray whitney…and realistically speaking…a rick nash trade would most likely happen in the offseason…(def. smt tht DW can pull off) and can we even afford his cap hit? lets go for a hemsky for a mitchell+braun/demers+nitty trade
but hell i would love a trade where we give up mitchell+braun/demers+ maybe a prospect + nitty for nash…i mean thornton and his pass first mentality, and nash and his shoot first mentality would terrorize the western conference.
by sjsharkseddy on Feb 22, 2012 9:35 PM PST up reply actions
Not gonna lie, I wish we had gotten to Vermette first. That would’ve helped our depth quite a bit, as I could see him covering for Havlat until he got back, then replacing Mitchell on 3rd line.
by JBarrow on Feb 22, 2012 10:39 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The Sharks couldnt afford it. For what they paid for him I would have loved to do the deal too. A couple of picks for a relatively consistent 20+ goal scorer that is signed to a decent deal for 3 more years after this?
Phoenix slam dunked that imo. Unfortunately the Sharks couldn’t do something like that because while they have the space in the seaosn end, they’d be over for next season and would have to deal away someone like Clowe or Doug Murray for whatever they could get in order to get under the cap. Vermette is good, but Clowe is a bit better (even if under performing this season) even if probably slower, and fills that power forward role that helps Couture’s line so well.
While the 'Nash' aura
continues to enthrall some people – the Phoenix Coyotes, living in reality and winning hockey games, acquire Antoine Vermette and reinforce their position.
The Sharks meanwhile have an injured Dominic Moore and Martin Havlat (as if that wasn’t predictable), and have the inability of late to defeat the last place team in the eastern conference, the last place team in the entire league, and probably every other team remaining in the league except the Washington Capitals (yet another talented team that seems too lazy to put in some effort or perhaps not seeing any need for urgency).
Sorry, but forget this Nash nonsense and just hope Doug Wilson is working on a realistically viable solution to this deepening ‘urgent’ situation.
Until when or if this season ever stabilizes, the theme song for the San Jose Sharks should be ‘Urgent Emergency’ by Foreigner. If however they manage to acquire Nash (not happening, cannot happen – makes no sense for him to come here) – ‘The Reflex’ by Duran Duran should be then adopted.
We have been swimming these wintry depths for years, succeeding at survival by feeding only upon perennial minnows of sustenance... will we ever get to sink our great white teeth into this so-called Stanely's feast, so that we may finally slay our insatiable hunger in frenzied celebration?
See, here's the problem
You’re thinking in a seemingly rational manner..yet very many strange and irrational things happen behind the scene. In this case, how many of us know how many teams Nash is willing to accept a trade to? How many of us know if Howson will lose his job? How many of us know whether or not Nash has specifically said that San Jose is the only team he’ll accept a trade to?
Now I’m not saying that all of these are definitely suggesting that the Sharks will get Nash, but let me say this…stranger things have happened before and will keep happening..what if management wants to clear shop and Nash has explicitly said he wants to go to San Jose? In that case, we might be able to get Nash for a seemingly small amount..
But all in all,
Go Sharks!
"We saw those trophies and we knew what we wanted to accomplish." - Joe Pavelski
by kiwi93 on Feb 22, 2012 10:26 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Agreed
You don’t know what is going on behind closed doors.
The Oilers got shafted by Heater only to go to a team making a seemingly worse offer. If Nash is determined to end up in SJ, then maybe it happens.
by HighGloveNightmare on Feb 22, 2012 10:48 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s probably 50/50 a Nash deal gets done. And it no doubt depends a great deal on what Nash wants, and will be nothing anyone expects.
by psantangeli on Feb 22, 2012 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Occum’s Razor: This simplest explanation is the most plausible.
CLB wants a lot back for Nash, but the problem is Nash has only named playoff teams. These teams dont want to mortgage their top players or their top prospects, and why should they? Their systems are working. Undoubtedly Howson is also thinking Nash is worth a lot more than his contract is worth. This might create a stalemate until the trade deadline, in which case I wouldn’t be surprised in Nash stays a Jacket. I wouldn’t be surprised if Sather’s (NYR) huge Nash boner gets him moved to NY either though.
FTFY
I wouldn’t be surprised if Sather’s (NYR) hugeNashhigh cap hit boner gets him moved to NY either though.
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Proud Member of the "I Will Cry If Joe Pavelski Is Traded" Club
If im Columbus
I dont settle for anything less than a combination of Stepan, Kreider, Del Zotto, Erixon, plus picks and 1 ready NHLer. The Sharks don’t have any of those guys, so baring some unforeseen demand from Nash to only go to San Jose, we really cant compete for him given our trading chips.
Flem: "Tim are you enjoying the party?"
Timmy: "That would be a fair assumption."
by BrandonMK50 on Feb 22, 2012 11:35 PM PST up reply actions
The Rangers do have a lot of talented young players, both at the NHL level and the prospect level, so that’s part of the reason I think they have the best chance of landing Nash now. Plus I could see Nash fitting in there particularly well—good grief, imagine him on a line with Richards and Callahan…with Gaborik on the 2nd line.
Winter. Time to eat fat and watch hockey. -- Margaret Atwood
by Timorous Me on Feb 22, 2012 11:46 PM PST up reply actions
That would put them over the top IMHO. They already have a good D corps and great goal tending. That addition of Nash would be frightening!
"What happens in the broadcast booth stays in the broadcast booth." Randy Hahn
"Pity is the drug of quitters" Drew Remenda
by hautecouture on Feb 22, 2012 11:51 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I think that right now, there are four teams—the Rangers, Bruins, Canucks, and Red Wings—who are the most complete teams out there above all the rest (though the Bruins are sliding and might not have the legs after the past two long seasons and injuries).
They all have some flaws, or at least flaws that could present themselves come the postseason (where a team like the Sharks could hopefully sneak in for the kill), and with the Rangers I’d say that’s scoring. So if they can add Nash while losing nobody more important to the current roster than Brandon Dubinsky, then yeah, as you said—frightening.
Winter. Time to eat fat and watch hockey. -- Margaret Atwood
by Timorous Me on Feb 22, 2012 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
I Vote No
to Rick Nash.
Ozolinsh should have shot the damn puck, and Cheechoo should have hit Korolyuk's pass out of the air... but they'll get there.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
Fear the Fin: "I've always said that if you don't have the motivation within you... It's not Doug Wilson's job to motivate me. I've got motivation within myself, especially going through some of the experiences that I had last year." - Nick Petrecki
This thread needs to die.
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Nash is a....
Douche bag. He’s no worthy to suck Joe Pavelski off. Just say no to bad trades
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